Author Topic: Fassbinder  (Read 13895 times)

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Ravi

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Fassbinder
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2004, 03:22:55 PM »
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I just finished watching my first Fassbinder film, Satan's Brew.  It's a pretty dark comedy with some women who seem to love being tortured by the main character.  Has anyone here seen it?

coffeebeetle

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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2004, 05:48:52 PM »
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For what it's worth, after reading all of your thoughts on this guy, I'm ready to blind buy one of his films.  Where do you suggest I begin?  :)
more than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. one path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. the other, to total extinction. let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
woody allen (side effects - 1980)

SoNowThen

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Fassbinder
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2004, 05:58:50 PM »
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Love Is Colder Than Death
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

coffeebeetle

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« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2004, 01:25:35 AM »
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Gracias, mi amigo.....
more than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. one path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. the other, to total extinction. let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
woody allen (side effects - 1980)

Ravi

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Fassbinder
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2004, 06:40:48 PM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
To comment on Ali: Fear Eats The Soul, I didn't really like it. The idea of course was to show a couple of extreme distance in background. A physically attractive man and an older, unattractive woman. You saw her conviction in the relationship, but never really his. He seemed more of a passenger being offered nice things and on second date (literally) he is indirectly offered marriage and like the coffee and brandy, he accepts. Much of what bothered me in believability was the acting. The man playing Ali had little presence or anything else at all. Most other people just seemed to be standing around and merely say their lines.


Ali was very stiff and quiet in the film, but I think that is due to his being an outcast in Germany, having to work in that auto shop ("German master, Arab dog"), and living with 5 other guys in an apartment.  He's beaten down by life  He also doesn't know German very well.  He also says at one point, "Always sad, always drunk" or something like that, which could contribute to how he acts.  Emmi must have been the first German to simply talk to him (at the beginning when they're dancing).  I think that is why Ali is like that.  Did he offer to marry or did Emmi do it?  I can't remember.  But he probably figured he has nothing to lose and might as well. No, it's not a marriage of passion, but I don't believe it is supposed to be.  Do I consider it a great film?  I don't know.  But I want to watch it again to make up my mind.

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The dialogue in conveying the story reminded me of David O. Selznick's obcession with memos in deleting the 80% of conversation that was disposable in that it didn't get to the point: all the dialogue here was get to the point and acted with as much excitement as a memo. In the Criterion booklet, it is said Fassbinder wanted to bring the original story of influence from melodrama (Sirk) to  fable. I don't really get why he would do it. Fassbinder's is attempting to speak for societal problems in his own Germany. I don't see how addressing it in a fable is really going to be the best structure.


Is this film really structured as a fable?  Everything seemed real (to an extent) to me, such as Emmi's co-workers shunning her, then the other foreign cleaning lady, talking behind Emmi's back, etc.  Somewhat stylized, but not totally unrealistic in its treatment.

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There are interesting ideas, *spoiler* like how the couple of course meets resentment and pressure from the community but after being away and time passing, they become more accepted but start to drift. They drift because they can't just rely on each other and start to bring the pressures and norms of their own cultures and asking the other to give up something indirectly because of it.


I also liked how Emmi's friends and family make up with her only because they want Ali to move heavy things to the cellar or have Emmi babysit.

godardian

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« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2004, 01:03:04 AM »
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Quote from: coffeebeetle
For what it's worth, after reading all of your thoughts on this guy, I'm ready to blind buy one of his films.  Where do you suggest I begin?  :)


Wow, I'm late on this...

...but I would suggest Fox and His Friends or Martha.

I haven't seen Satan's Brew...
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

eward

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Fassbinder
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2004, 07:59:39 AM »
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i just purchased bitter tears of petra van kant and just finished watching veronika voss....which was quite good by the way

im just now getting into fassbinder
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."

godardian

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« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2004, 09:04:22 AM »
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Quote from: eward
i just purchased bitter tears of petra van kant and just finished watching veronika voss....which was quite good by the way

im just now getting into fassbinder


Both excellent. You really have to see the rest of the BRD Trilogy if you can.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

eward

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« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2004, 03:34:45 PM »
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lol i just bought it on my way home from getting my paycheck

ive seen lola prior and i am about to watch marriage of maria braun now
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."

godardian

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« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2004, 03:50:50 PM »
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Quote from: eward
lol i just bought it on my way home from getting my paycheck

ive seen lola prior and i am about to watch marriage of maria braun now


 :yabbse-thumbup:

I actually think Voss might be my favorite of the trilogy, but the whole thing is brilliant.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

eward

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« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2004, 05:47:09 PM »
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so i just saw in a year of 13 moons for the first time after blind buying it .... and it was fucking powerful as hell.  just amazing, absolutely amazing.  especially the scene in which elvira is taken to an apartment housed by two men...one who does nothing but arm curls the whole time, and the other who describes a dream he had in which every grave in the cemetary he was standing in was marked rather peculiarly, but when he goes into why - and, i don't know, but that has been haunting me since, i wont reveal it......but everything about that scene - the lighting, writing, music, acting, distance, just overall insanity and melancholy was...god, depressing but exhilerating too.....i'm really not articulating this well at all but i loved it, absolutely loved it.  a great great film, one of the best fassbinders  i've seen.  highly highly recommended
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."

samsong

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Fassbinder
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2004, 07:13:51 PM »
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Quote from: eward
so i just saw in a year of 13 moons for the first time after blind buying it .... and it was fucking powerful as hell.  just amazing, absolutely amazing.  especially the scene in which elvira is taken to an apartment housed by two men...one who does nothing but arm curls the whole time, and the other who describes a dream he had in which every grave in the cemetary he was standing in was marked rather peculiarly, but when he goes into why - and, i don't know, but that has been haunting me since, i wont reveal it......but everything about that scene - the lighting, writing, music, acting, distance, just overall insanity and melancholy was...god, depressing but exhilerating too.....i'm really not articulating this well at all but i loved it, absolutely loved it.  a great great film, one of the best fassbinders  i've seen.  highly highly recommended


I love you.  Have you seen Ali: Fear Eats the Soul?

eward

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« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2004, 08:19:41 PM »
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yes i have, another blind fassbinder buy.  i definitly thought it was good but im not huge on it, well at least not 13 moons/lola/herr r. huge on it.  i'd place it with mother kusters and effi briest as films of his that i respected but don't feel any great urge to view again...

of his that ive seen ive absolutely loved

lola
veronika voss
why does herr r run amok?
chinese roulette
fox and his friends
american soldier
gods of the plague
and of course in a year of 13 moons

the others that ive seen that i liked but was just a bit bored by

effi briest
marriage of maria braun
ali: fear eats the soul
mother kusters goes to heaven

and there is only one film he made that ive seen that i just did not like at all and that was:

querelle (unfortunate given that this was his final film)


but anyway, fassbinder rules
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."

Myxo

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« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2004, 12:51:59 AM »
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Ok, so here's the deal.

About a year ago they had a Fassbinder series at the film school near me. I got a chance to see "Ali: Fear Eats the Soul" and I thought it was fucking great. I didn't have time to see any of his other work.

What should I see next then?

cine

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Fassbinder
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2004, 01:04:02 AM »
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A therapist.

 

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