Author Topic: God  (Read 21647 times)

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SoNowThen

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« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2003, 03:04:48 PM »
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Mesh said: "Magnolia does not require the existence of God in order for it to be successful rhetorically or on a narrative level.

Now shut up."

Certainly it doesn't, but without it you'd be missing out on the whole transcendental spiritual experience. That's the most fun part for me.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2003, 03:10:01 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
mesh what your saying does not mean anything, sure it does not need it

but maybe the added depth makes it better

i always like it when things have a lot of differnt layers

as long as the layers are not shallow

i started this whole thing saying how cool it is for a modern film maker to do something that is so outside the box

saying god sucks is not a radical concept anymore, its rather played out


this remind me of something, lee scratch perry he is this mad scientist music producer who makes brilliant music and he is insane, he worked with bob marley and the clash and the beastie boys

well anyways he was gonna produce this album by this band called " Bad attitude" but  he insisted they change their name to " good attitude" or he would not work with them

my point is everyone is obsessed with negativity and being bad is cool, thats why it was so funny and great that he didnt like their name

i mean its funny because its just a funny idea that he would tell them that, i wish could see the look on there face

and its cool, because i like the idea behind it , what he was thinking

he doesnt have to win anyone over by being negitive to look cool, he allready is cool

back to my point about god, its been cool for so long to diss god that its become cool now to embrace him

as long as its done in a neat way and not in some cheesy fashion, hence my jessica simpson analagy


I like your style, man. This is well said.

Also, I believe we can all at least agree on one thing: Jessica Simpson's rack is truly a gift from God. Can I get an amen?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

aclockworkjj

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« Reply #77 on: June 02, 2003, 03:19:30 PM »
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I think first you need to define god.....I mean, sure it's easy to assume Magnolia was referring to a Christan god (hence Exodus 8:2)....but how many different ideas are there about that?...or at least put god into a generic sense....like:
God is:
1. All knowing
2. All powerful
3. All good
Sure, you can argue those too, but for the most part I think it holds up for all Christianity.  Going by something like this might make for a more objective discussion, instead of a holy war....but then again, this is coming from a snobby athetist... :lol:

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« Reply #78 on: June 02, 2003, 03:43:08 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
saying god sucks is not a radical concept anymore, its rather played out

my point is everyone is obsessed with negativity and being bad is cool


you have to stop assuming that whenever someones opinion differs from yours that they are automatically just trying to be cool. sure some people just talk shit just because they think it makes them look edgy, but i dont see any indication of that here, or at least in this thread.

and p, im still waiting for you to educate me (and the rest of us ppl) on "spiritual matters"

Mesh

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« Reply #79 on: June 02, 2003, 03:47:42 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
mesh what your saying does not mean anything, sure it does not need it

but maybe the added depth makes it better

i always like it when things have a lot of differnt layers

as long as the layers are not shallow

i started this whole thing saying how cool it is for a modern film maker to do something that is so outside the box


No, actually, no, you didn't.  Here's what you said, genius:

Quote
But Magnolia is a very pro god movie

what i mean is , in that world God exists


And here's what I'm saying:

No, it's not.

And:

No, God doesn't necessarily exist in the world of Magnolia.  You can't show or prove that it/He does.  You're whole point seems to be "Dude, it'd be pretty cool if Magnolia was a pro-God movie, but I have no evidence to support my repeated position that it is."

Now shut up.

godardian

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« Reply #80 on: June 02, 2003, 03:48:29 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan

my point is everyone is obsessed with negativity and being bad is cool, thats why it was so funny and great that he didnt like their name

back to my point about god, its been cool for so long to diss god that its become cool now to embrace him


It's much too simplistic to perceive everything being done for the sake of cool/uncool, or positive/negative. The only way anyone becomes "obsessed" with these categories is if they're making the false binary assumptions they come from. The words themselves are so subjective as to be meaningless without detailed qualification.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #81 on: June 02, 2003, 03:52:41 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
mesh what your saying does not mean anything, sure it does not need it

but maybe the added depth makes it better

i always like it when things have a lot of differnt layers

as long as the layers are not shallow

i started this whole thing saying how cool it is for a modern film maker to do something that is so outside the box


No, actually, no, you didn't.  Here's what you said, genius:

Quote
But Magnolia is a very pro god movie

what i mean is , in that world God exists


And here's what I'm saying:

No, it's not.

And:

No, God doesn't necessarily exist in the world of Magnolia.  You can't show or prove that it/He does.  You're whole point seems to be "Dude, it'd be pretty cool if Magnolia was a pro-God movie, but I have no evidence to support my repeated position that it is."

Now shut up.


Why are you telling the guy to shut up? He can post whatever opinions he wants to post. Yeesh.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Mesh

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« Reply #82 on: June 02, 2003, 04:06:37 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Mesh said: "Magnolia does not require the existence of God in order for it to be successful rhetorically or on a narrative level.

Now shut up."

Certainly it doesn't, but without it you'd be missing out on the whole transcendental spiritual experience.


Nope, you wouldn't.  "God" and "transcendental spiritual experience" are not one and the same.  Not at all.

Mesh

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« Reply #83 on: June 02, 2003, 04:09:11 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen

Why are you telling the guy to shut up? He can post whatever opinions he wants to post. Yeesh.


...and I can request that he stop reiterating his unfounded, bullshit opinions, especially when he shows no interest in substantiating them or in considering others' refutations of said opinions.  Yeesh.

phil marlowe

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« Reply #84 on: June 02, 2003, 04:14:03 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
...and I can request that he stop reiterating his unfounded, bullshit opinions, especially when he shows no interest in substantiating them or in considering others' refutations of said opinions.  Yeesh.

shit man. tell me your jokin here. i'd like to tell you you're right, i really do, but then you have to adress this shit to yourself.

i think sant really has a point here and i never really thought of this myself. it really ads up.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2003, 04:14:04 PM »
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It really sounds to me like you are just freaking out because the mention of "God" or "religion" in conjunction with this movie seems to be an insult to you somehow. He's not preaching that it's a divine message, he's describing a feeling he got watching it. So he posted, and now we discuss. This is a "discussion board" isn't it? Telling someone to shut up isn't exactly my idea of a discussion.


Edit: That was to Mesh
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

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« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2003, 04:15:53 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: SoNowThen

Why are you telling the guy to shut up? He can post whatever opinions he wants to post. Yeesh.


...and I can request that he stop reiterating his unfounded, bullshit opinions, especially when he shows no interest in substantiating them or in considering others' refutations of said opinions.  Yeesh.


Yes, SCIABM has a way of (often) totally ignoring other people's points and just reiterating the same thing over and over again, or (often) trying to argue a point someone makes in exception to one of his on such an asinine level that it's embarrassing. It can start to get really pointless.

I doubt he'll shut up, though.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #87 on: June 02, 2003, 04:21:08 PM »
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But in this case his opinions are neither unfounded, nor bullshit. At least the inital posts. I always felt something similar to this, and am glad someone brought it up.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

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« Reply #88 on: June 02, 2003, 04:21:29 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
It really sounds to me like you are just freaking out because the mention of "God" or "religion" in conjunction with this movie seems to be an insult to you somehow. He's not preaching that it's a divine message, he's describing a feeling he got watching it. So he posted, and now we discuss. This is a "discussion board" isn't it? Telling someone to shut up isn't exactly my idea of a discussion.


Edit: That was to Mesh


I'm going to just jump in and say that lot of times it's not WHAT is said, but HOW it's said. Clause has pretty bluntly stated in many of his posts that if you don't see god in Magnolia, you're just trying to be "cool" and "negative" (see what I mean about the asininity?). Why is it that SoNowThen can say something about seeing god in it and it seems reasonable and thoughtful and not insulting at all, but when Clause does it, it causes all kinds of negative feeling?

Because Clause puts everything in black/white, aggro, us-or-them, contentious terms. He doesn't choose his words or battles very wisely, it seems to me. And it really only reflects poorly on him, and causes no small amount of ill feeling towards him. And to me, that's really understandable.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Cecil

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« Reply #89 on: June 02, 2003, 04:22:34 PM »
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oh, what a surprise. a holy war.

 

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