Author Topic: God  (Read 21174 times)

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AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2003, 05:45:31 PM »
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thats my point , and pta came down on jimmy gator hard

he said some sins are not forgiveable, refering to jimmy and his outcome

i never said god was out to hurt the world , maybe he saw what was going on and he stepped in

Cecil

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« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2003, 06:00:18 PM »
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i dont think you necessarily have to "agree" with what a film is saying to enjoy it. like you said, pulp fiction has many religious undertones (but like godardian said about magnolia, its about redemption) and i love pulp fiction alot.

The Silver Bullet

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« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2003, 06:18:48 PM »
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For someone who loves and has seen Magnolia a whole heap of times, the following question may seem evil, and sacreligious. But what does happen to Jimmy Gator, exactly? I was always under the impression that the exact moment he goes to shoot himself the frogs rain down, and prevent it from happening. Am I wrong?
RABBIT n. pl. rab·bits or rabbit[list=1]
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sphinx

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« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2003, 06:23:42 PM »
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Quote from: The Silver Bullet
For someone who loves and has seen Magnolia a whole heap of times, the following question may seem evil, and sacreligious. But what does happen to Jimmy Gator, exactly? I was always under the impression that the exact moment he goes to shoot himself the frogs rain down, and prevent it from happening. Am I wrong?


you suspect right

jimmy burns in his house, which brings up a theory that i have had for quite some time about a second edit of the film which was in theatres

there are several things i remember in the version in theatres that i see no sign of on the dvd:
- flames surrounding jimmy gator
- one frame before the frame makes impact with the cement, it's a cut to 'so now then', not just the hold on cruise's face

several others have confirmed that they saw those things too, but i haven't bothered taking it up with greg yet

ono

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« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2003, 06:26:12 PM »
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Supposedly, the errant gunshot that hit the television starts a fire which traps Gator, killing him.  Or so I heard, though I forget where.

The Silver Bullet

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« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2003, 06:27:47 PM »
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Burning in Hell, indeed. Letting him kill himself would be too easy.

Thanks Sphinxy.
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AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2003, 06:33:25 PM »
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kind of goes back to my point about todd solondz

pta dealt with pedophilia by having the guy burn and die in the end

which he had coming to him

where as todd said " Awww how sad for poor bill, society just does not understand he has a illness"

Pubrick

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« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2003, 09:05:05 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
kind of goes back to my point about todd solondz

nice way to try to make this thread go longer than it has to.

ther has been very little goin on here other than "this is what i believe and that's what u believe and that's that".

i'm not surprised to see no one read what i wrote, cept maybe u, and cecil who thought it was all a response to his one sentence. u shoulda called this sumthin else, cos God is the second most misleading thread title ever.

do u see an end to the discussion? do u care if there is one? we don't need another donnie darko/homo thread. at least u ppl knew more about homos than ur displaying about spiritual matters.
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« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2003, 09:37:37 PM »
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Quote from: P
at least u ppl knew more about homos than ur displaying about spiritual matters.


so, please tell us what we need to know

Sleuth

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« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2003, 09:46:54 PM »
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This thread is out of control and I like it
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godardian

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« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2003, 09:48:55 PM »
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Quote from: P
ideally, a scientifically inclined person with knowledge of the history and nature of the world's religions arguing with a scientifically knowledgable person with strong faith would be the most stimulating model for theological discussion. a basic mulder and scully.

what would then transpire is a progressively refined definition of what it means to believe in a higher power. inevitably delving into the topics of an afterlife, the soul, good and evil, what makes us human, evolution, the beginnings of the universe. what they would discover, assuming they are not egocentric, is that the reverence a quantum physicist holds for the eternal beauty in the atomic/theoretical (inasmuch as it is reactionary and invisible) structure of the universe is much the same as the core faith a true "believer" holds in the power within us and more importantly beyond us, throughout time.


That would be ideal. Unfortunately, though, passion seems to get in the way of reason with these discussions. That's part of why I'm agnostic; I can really relate to why you would believe in god, and why you wouldn't, and why you wouldn't even if you really wanted to. I'm very interested in that kind of discussion, rare as it is. I wasn't a big X-Files fan, but I always really appreciated that aspect.

And of course the bible is an invaluable historical, philosophical, and dramatic document that does, indeed, contain many an actual person and occurrence (the ratio of fact to fiction is a fascinating and always ongoing theological debate, how much of it is allegorical, etc.). Our culture would not be recognizable to us without its influence, good and bad. I have nothing against the bible itself; my only quibble is with those who selectively choose the parts of this vast, complicated, tone-shifting, frequently self-contradictory document that support their own petty tendencies to judgment and self-righteousness.


The eye of this particular storm being appreciated, I have to reiterate again what I have said before about the very marked distinction between the characters of Bill Maplewood in Happiness and Jimmy Gator. Bill wants to change; he's desperate to. The reason I felt for him as a character is because he really knew what he was doing was wrong, and he was ready to confess it... and was completely dissuaded by the callousness of the people whom he should've been able to expect help from.

Jimmy Gator, on the other hand, is judged in the end on his unwillingness to even admit he ever did anything wrong; he pretends not to know why his daughter won't talk to him. While the other characters are facing their messes and mistakes head on, he's hiding behind a lie which, as it it turns out, only he believes in (Claudia and her mother are no longer willing to be complicit in his pretense).

He and Bill Maplewood are EXTREMELY different characters. They can't really be held up as parallels of the same thing, as they have been in some posts here, unless you're just diminishing them and boiling them down in your mind to fit your own prefabricated, black-and-white worldview, where people only fall into "good" and "evil" categories. In which case I can't see how you'd get any enjoyment out of either of those films in the first place.
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Pozer

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« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2003, 10:32:31 PM »
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Quote from: P
Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
kind of goes back to my point about todd solondz

nice way to try to make this thread go longer than it has to.

ther has been very little goin on here other than "this is what i believe and that's what u believe and that's that".

i'm not surprised to see no one read what i wrote, cept maybe u, and cecil who thought it was all a response to his one sentence. u shoulda called this sumthin else, cos God is the second most misleading thread title ever.

do u see an end to the discussion? do u care if there is one? we don't need another donnie darko/homo thread. at least u ppl knew more about homos than ur displaying about spiritual matters.


whats the point of having discussions about anything then? I know you're the negative/witty guy, but if you dont like the thread, shouldn't you just ignore it and not worry about it?

Pubrick

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« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2003, 05:46:51 AM »
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Quote from: poser
whats the point of having discussions about anything then? I know you're the negative/witty guy, but if you dont like the thread, shouldn't you just ignore it and not worry about it?

yeah i didn't mean to sound like a diss to Santa.. long live this thread.
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Mesh

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« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2003, 02:28:27 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan

i heard people say that before, and a lot of these guys are just saying that because its the only way they can admit to enjoying magnolia with out losing any cool points


Magnolia does not require the existence of God in order for it to be successful rhetorically or on a narrative level.

Now shut up.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2003, 02:58:41 PM »
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mesh what your saying does not mean anything, sure it does not need it

but maybe the added depth makes it better

i always like it when things have a lot of differnt layers

as long as the layers are not shallow

i started this whole thing saying how cool it is for a modern film maker to do something that is so outside the box

saying god sucks is not a radical concept anymore, its rather played out


this remind me of something, lee scratch perry he is this mad scientist music producer who makes brilliant music and he is insane, he worked with bob marley and the clash and the beastie boys

well anyways he was gonna produce this album by this band called " Bad attitude" but  he insisted they change their name to " good attitude" or he would not work with them

my point is everyone is obsessed with negativity and being bad is cool, thats why it was so funny and great that he didnt like their name

i mean its funny because its just a funny idea that he would tell them that, i wish could see the look on there face

and its cool, because i like the idea behind it , what he was thinking

he doesnt have to win anyone over by being negitive to look cool, he allready is cool

back to my point about god, its been cool for so long to diss god that its become cool now to embrace him

as long as its done in a neat way and not in some cheesy fashion, hence my jessica simpson analagy

 

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