Author Topic: God  (Read 21164 times)

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Jon

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God
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2003, 04:38:36 PM »
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I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, thanks for "standing up for my point of view", but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you on every one of your opinions, while I have my christian leanings, I'm fine if other people don't.

Just because cecil's an atheist, all it means is he sees the film differently.

(So us christians should revel in the fact that we know so much more than him.)

:twisted:

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2003, 04:46:08 PM »
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im not a christian nor was i born one

im not even sure god exists

but i know this, that this film is deeper then a lot of the things i have heard people say about it

we could move right past the god thing and talk about the other issues it tackles

like tom cruise and his self made man thing crumbiling right before his eyes

but that is another topic

and i do not agree with everything you have said, i just respect your right to say them

and my point is that your opinion is considered almost radical in this setting

amungst somepeople just saying that maybe god had a reason or whatever, would make you look like a douchebag in their eyes

SoNowThen

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Re: God
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2003, 04:50:31 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
ive been thinking about this a lot

people are always talking about god and hollywood and how the film industry mocks the concept of god


But Magnolia is a very pro god movie

what i mean is , in that world God exists

im not into religen in anyway , but i always want to think that a god exsists

a lot of film snobs pride themselves on the fact that they are too cool to think that god exsists

but here is fucking paul thomas anderson and he makes this masterpiece and well he puts this whole god thing in the ending the 82


and in such way, he didnt hit us over the head with some phoney bullshit preachy mesage , we dont even know what his view on god is but the film leads us to to think whatever it is , im sure its interesting

at least he didnt pick a trendy god , like buddah

pulp fiction too, thats a very pro god movie

but if you ask some hard core relgiouce fanatic , they would turn there noses up at both films

and the flip side to that is , snobby atheists

who never really bring much of a debate to the table

anyways im all over the place here, but we should talk about the signifigance of god in this movie and how some of us feel about it

i dig it, because it gives the film a cool layer that is missing in other movies, since most films never deal with god in this way


I'm glad you say this. I've always told people from my church that Magnolia is the most Christian of contemporary films. Not so much for the frogs, but for the whole "know better" aspect of it, and especially Jim's "who should we forgive" bit. Pretty main points in Jesus' teachings. Now, some of those conservative folks who make up our congregation can't take the swearing, which I think is pretty weak, 'cause that's just turning a blind eye to what is around you. But those that go in with an open mind almost always come out loving the film. I can't say of course how much Paul meant to weave this into the story, and maybe I'm just looking for things I wanna see, but Magnolia makes me so happy on every level: cinematic entertainment, triumph of form/technique, and ultimately, transcendant theological ideas.

Oh, by the way, I just watched it for the first time in half a year, so I'm on a huge Magnolia high right now.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2003, 05:01:03 PM »
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didnt kubrick go to his grave saying that HAL Was not related in any way to IBM

And should we also think that Lucy in the sky with diamonds , had nothin to do with acid

now do not jump a million steps and try and link these to paul not wearing shoes on the cover of abby road

some things are weirdo conspiracy nut things

but some things are the truth, and the creater would rather not spell it out opting instead to let the art speak for itself

i still dont think the 8 and the 2 was just for giggles

from a lesser film maker maybe, but nahhh

i could be wrong i could be write, i could be quoteing a public image limited song who knows

but thats why great art is Great

and speaking of great art , i refer to my post about art garfunkle..

Sleuth

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God
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2003, 05:14:18 PM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
Quote from: Jon
I am christian (not organized religion, just believe in God) sometimes I do look at the end as God intervening. I mean, if I really think about it, (and I may have said this before) those characters were stuck. Nothing was going to change, and since I'm an optimist, I feel like maybe God was giving a little push.

(And since it's a film about fathers, supposing God is a man or whatever, wouldn't he be a good father? Okay, I'm really reaching here, forget I said it.)

It's cliche, but still, if I do happen to wonder "why" about this film, that's what I end up thinking.


see this is what i am saying, peopel should be more honest like this guy and speak up

films could do important things, and magnolia could make you a better person for having seen it

and not because you found a new way to frame a fucking dolly shot


You aren't looking for honesty, you're fishing for people to agree with you
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SoNowThen

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« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2003, 05:21:56 PM »
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No, but he's right. Film can do important things, and Magnolia does make you a better person for seeing it. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't wanna make films.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Jon

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God
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2003, 05:25:06 PM »
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Maybe in 20 years all the new filmmakers will say Magnolia made them want to do film, just like Star Wars did to so many (from what I've read).

It'll probably be the Matrix, though.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2003, 05:26:22 PM »
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Quote from: tremolosloth
Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
Quote from: Jon
I am christian (not organized religion, just believe in God) sometimes I do look at the end as God intervening. I mean, if I really think about it, (and I may have said this before) those characters were stuck. Nothing was going to change, and since I'm an optimist, I feel like maybe God was giving a little push.

(And since it's a film about fathers, supposing God is a man or whatever, wouldn't he be a good father? Okay, I'm really reaching here, forget I said it.)

It's cliche, but still, if I do happen to wonder "why" about this film, that's what I end up thinking.


see this is what i am saying, peopel should be more honest like this guy and speak up

films could do important things, and magnolia could make you a better person for having seen it

and not because you found a new way to frame a fucking dolly shot


You aren't looking for honesty, you're fishing for people to agree with you


trust me i dont want shit from you, and thats what i expect to get from you shit

SoNowThen

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« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2003, 05:27:50 PM »
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I'm not too sure the next generation of filmmakers (hopefully us) will say Magnolia made them want to do films. I think they will say it was a yardstick of how good films can be. Me personally, the combination of Ghostbusters when I was a kid, and Reservoir Dogs when I was a teenager, made me want to make films. But Magnolia was like a life changing experience.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

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Re: God
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2003, 05:30:45 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Pretty main points in Jesus' teachings.


If those teachings are what's really driving someone's sensibility, then they should have no problem embracing the film (and they should be able to handle a lot more than swearing- Jesus ran with a pretty rough crowd and found the crimes of whores and thieves to be less than those committed by the hypocritical self-righteous in the name of their religion). I bet Mary Magdalene swore like a sailor.

But if the film is compatible with Jesus's teachings, then it couldn't be about "god judging." It's about redemption. It's about learning from mistakes. It's about slowing down and really looking at what makes us tick and how some of the things we do might be destructive. The frogs give people that chance for appraisal and contemplation; they stop everything and force everyone to take a new perspective and see what's really important and what they've let get out of control. It would be silly to ascribe the event one meaning, especially if it's supposedly god's judgment. I think that's an insult to the film.

And I'm not just saying that to be cool.  :roll: Shit, who cares about that?? I'm too old.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2003, 05:31:09 PM »
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your right about the matrix

but hopefully magnolia will stand as a example of what is a brave and well done film from a guy who could of chocked after his big break through

and if any of us get final cut, we should all be so lucky to make a film this great

magnolia good heavens gate bad

if you are gonna just fucking go for it and say fuck it i dont care if this makes 100 million, then make it something that you care about

if you cant please the world just please yourself

and the people who get it, will get it on your terms

Sleuth

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« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2003, 05:33:13 PM »
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Honestly, Santa, I don't care what you expect from me.  My honest opinion is that maybe PTA left it open ended for a reason, for good discussion, and when you aren't accepting any other view besides God, it doesn't look right
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Jon

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« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2003, 05:36:27 PM »
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Isn't it one of those things that they say, where the more you show things that You like (as opposed to a film like Anger Management or Bruce Almighty, made for "everyone"), the more it'll draw people in.

I know I fucked up the saying, but I think it's true, and I'm leaving this conversation for the time being, see ya guys later.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2003, 05:37:35 PM »
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Quote from: tremolosloth
Honestly, Santa, I don't care what you expect from me.  My honest opinion is that maybe PTA left it open ended for a reason, for good discussion, and when you aren't accepting any other view besides God, it doesn't look right


i never said " fuck you your wrong"

i did however think that part about the huricane was kind of a cop out

i heard people say that before, and a lot of these guys are just saying that because its the only way they can admit to enjoying magnolia with out losing any cool points

not all but some people feel this way

SoNowThen

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Re: God
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2003, 05:37:54 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
Quote from: SoNowThen
Pretty main points in Jesus' teachings.


If those teachings are what's really driving someone's sensibility, then they should have no problem embracing the film (and they should be able to handle a lot more than swearing- Jesus ran with a pretty rough crowd and found the crimes of whores and thieves to be less than those committed by the hypocritical self-righteous in the name of their religion). I bet Mary Magdalene swore like a sailor.

But if the film is compatible with Jesus's teachings, then it couldn't be about "god judging." It's about redemption. It's about learning from mistakes. It's about slowing down and really looking at what makes us tick and how some of the things we do might be destructive. The frogs give people that chance for appraisal and contemplation; they stop everything and force everyone to take a new perspective and see what's really important and what they've let get out of control. It would be silly to ascribe the event one meaning, especially if it's supposedly god's judgment. I think that's an insult to the film.

And I'm not just saying that to be cool.  :roll: Shit, who cares about that?? I'm too old.


Yep, you are right. And I do believe it's about redemption. But of course most of these characters ask for love and redemption. The only person who doesn't wanna make any necessary steps is Jimmy, and look what happens to him!!

Yeah, I wish they could handle more swearing. I as well swear like a sailor, and really have to watch my mouth in public. I'm not kidding, you should hear the horrible shit that comes out...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

 

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