Author Topic: God  (Read 21134 times)

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Cecil

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« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2003, 09:48:15 AM »
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why do you think that a deeper experience necessarily means a religious one?

Mesh

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« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2003, 11:02:09 AM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
first of all mesh you have brought nothing to this group you could drop dead right now and now one would notice

so that much is a given

and two your a fucking fag


Perhaps the funniest thing I've ever read on xixax.com.  Bravo.

 :-D

aclockworkjj

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« Reply #107 on: June 03, 2003, 11:02:55 AM »
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Quote from: cecil b. demented
why do you think that a deeper experience necessarily means a religious one?

Unfortunately, I think for a lot of people, religion is one of the only things they have passion for, thus, one of the only things that can give them a deep experience.  Not saying this is the case here, but speaking more just in general....

phil marlowe

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« Reply #108 on: June 03, 2003, 11:03:55 AM »
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Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
first of all mesh you have brought nothing to this group you could drop dead right now and now one would notice

so that much is a given

and two your a fucking fag


Perhaps the funniest thing I've ever read on xixax.com.  Bravo.

 :-D

erhm...cos he's right?

Mesh

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Re: God
« Reply #109 on: June 03, 2003, 11:09:03 AM »
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Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan

your saying this because that film is deeper then anything you could understand


True.  So true.  I'm shallow and overly concerned with "cool."  You fuckin' nailed me.  I'll quit posting and consider suicide, how 'bout that?


Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
also the reason why you cant handle my posts, by the way who has stood up for you ?????  if all you have is godradian then again i suggest you kill yourself


You're right again.  I have been finding it difficult to "handle your posts."  For that reason, I think it best that I end my life.....and be quick about it.

Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
or write another deep post about how goodfellas is like PDL because nillison sang a song on goodfellas and wrote a song for pdl


Another devastating blow to my ego and musico-filmic acumen.  "Why do I even try," I might ask myself.

Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
the group is waiting for your great posts


I hate to disappoint "the group," but on your advice, I have just committed suicide.  Shucks.

 :roll:

Mesh

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« Reply #110 on: June 03, 2003, 11:11:37 AM »
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Quote from: Phil Marlowe
Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
first of all mesh you have brought nothing to this group you could drop dead right now and now one would notice

so that much is a given

and two your a fucking fag


Perhaps the funniest thing I've ever read on xixax.com.  Bravo.

 :-D

erhm...cos he's right?


Don't ask why, but I expected better than this from you.  Bad, bad post.  Agreeing with someone who likes to toss the word "fag" around is pretty low class.

But suit yourself.

phil marlowe

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« Reply #111 on: June 03, 2003, 11:15:00 AM »
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mesh, considering the fact that your posts have no other points but 'no', then why do you bother? you bash santa for not delivering any messages, you a joke man.

phil marlowe

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« Reply #112 on: June 03, 2003, 11:20:29 AM »
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Quote from: Mesh
Don't ask why, but I expected better than this from you.  Bad, bad post.  Agreeing with someone who likes to toss the word "fag" around is pretty low class.

But suit yourself.

when he tosses the word fag around, as you say, its all in good humor. the santa guy has about a hundred good points on this subject more than you got wich is none. i respect him for being straightforward and think deep and shit wich i never will say about you.

children with angels

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« Reply #113 on: June 03, 2003, 11:25:31 AM »
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That's weird and harsh.

Yo, Mesh - I agree with what you're saying about the fact that you don't necessarily need God for Magnolia to be a very deep and moving movie, but it's true: you haven't explained yourself. Maybe you don't think it needs explaining - I don't think it needs explaining - but others do, so I think it would help your argument if you put a case forward. I'm totally behind you on your opinions here - about the movie and your detractors (I've tried to give Santa the benefit of the doubt, but he really can't hold an adult conversation), so go ahead and tell it like it is...
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Mesh

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« Reply #114 on: June 03, 2003, 11:50:47 AM »
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Quote from: children with angels
That's weird and harsh.

Yo, Mesh - I agree with what you're saying about the fact that you don't necessarily need God for Magnolia to be a very deep and moving movie, but it's true: you haven't explained yourself. Maybe you don't think it needs explaining - I don't think it needs explaining - but others do, so I think it would help your argument if you put a case forward. I'm totally behind you on your opinions here - about the movie and your detractors (I've tried to give Santa the benefit of the doubt on many occaisions, but he really can't hold an adult conversation), so go ahead and tell it like it is...


I understand what you're saying but....There's a problem here.  There's not much to explain that hasn't already been explained.

Santa's basic points (which I've already spelled out):

1.  Magnolia is pro-God.

2.  PTA (though he's been quoted in contradiction to this) put all the Biblical references in the film because he realized that making a pro-God movie was actually really cool, whereas others think that a pro-God movie is very, very uncool.

3.  Magnolia is rife with deep, religious, Christian meaning.

Now I'll refute, briefly, those three points, which I believe I've already done in this thread.  Again, I assure you that most of this has been said already, in one way or another.  Be prepared for that.

1.  Magnolia is not pro-God.  All of the events depicted in the film could have happened even if God did not and had never existed in that world.  Secondarily, none of the events in the film prove the existence of, or attempt to argue for, the existence of God.

2.  Of all the possible reasons PTA might have peppered his film with references to "8:2," the least likely, in my mind, is this:  "Because he thought it would be cool."  Here are some other possible reasons:

 a.  Foreshadowing:  PTA wanted to clue you in to the fact that a catastrophic event would occur and would facilitate change in his characters' lives.
 b.  Intertextuality:  PTA wanted to link his work of fiction with another work of literature, namely the Old Testament of the Bible.
 c.  Credibility:  PTA's prologue is a series of freak occurences, each of them underscored with the narrator's assertion that (and I paraphrase, here) "These things just do happen sometimes."  PTA's use of the biblical precursor to his rain of frogs does even more than just showing "These Things Do Happen."  It sends this message:  "Even something so strange as a Rain of Frogs can happen....sometimes twice."

3.  Magnolia, it's true, could possibly be seen as rife with deep, religious, Christian meaning.  Then again, it might just be a complex story about how things "just happen," as I refer to above.  In fact, seeing that that particular angle is given more screen time than the "God's will" angle, I'd say it's the more likely explanation for what happens in Magnolia.  I could be wrong.  But this one fact is irrefutable:  A pro-God, Biblical, Christian interpretation is not the Be All, End All of Magnolia readings.  It is not, as Santa has vehemently yelled at me, that thing about Magnolia which is "deeper then anything you [Mesh] could understand."  It is simply one possible, somewhat plausible reading.  That's all anyone's interpretation of a film is.

To make my point utterly, completely clear:  If it started saying that Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back was really only an elaborate allegory of the Cuban Missle Crisis and that those who don't see as much are poseur simpletons, wouldn't you require of me that I really, really show significant evidence that it is what I say it is?

children with angels

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« Reply #115 on: June 03, 2003, 12:05:28 PM »
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Yeah. Exactly. I completely agree: it's not the "be all and end all", but it's good that you acknowledge that it is a possible reading. This is more than Santa has done for anyone else. I think it is a very ambiguous, almost post-modern, movie in which it's impossible to say exactly why things happen: that's the point. There are many things going on, it cannot all be explained with one sentence - if I felt it could, the movie would seem much less satisfying, and much less deep, as Santa puts it.
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Mesh

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Re: God
« Reply #116 on: June 03, 2003, 12:08:58 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
I've always told people from my church that Magnolia is the most Christian of contemporary films.


Just for the record, Brue Almighty is just as Old Testament/New Testament as Magnolia, by any measure (although BA may deal less with the specific teachings of Jesus Christ), in that it advocates prayer and "giving the reins of your life to God," and punishes selfishness in all its forms.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #117 on: June 03, 2003, 12:16:25 PM »
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I just... I obviously don't know how to explain it. I don't mean a Christian message, I don't mean as a tool to teach Christianity, and I certainly don't use either of these things as a yardstick of a good film.

I'd have to really sit down and think things through rationally before I try to explain myself. If someone really wants my opinion, I'd be happy to PM them, but I need time to properly express what I want to come across.

'Cause bullshit moralizing at the end of a comedy, well that's not what I'm about in any way. It could have been funny, but it's 180 degrees from what I mean about Magnolia.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Mesh

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« Reply #118 on: June 03, 2003, 12:24:27 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
I just... I obviously don't know how to explain it. I don't mean a Christian message, I don't mean as a tool to teach Christianity, and I certainly don't use either of these things as a yardstick of a good film.

I'd have to really sit down and think things through rationally before I try to explain myself. If someone really wants my opinion, I'd be happy to PM them, but I need time to properly express what I want to come across.

'Cause bullshit moralizing at the end of a comedy, well that's not what I'm about in any way. It could have been funny, but it's 180 degrees from what I mean about Magnolia.


You're winning this thread, if you ask me, because you're expressing a feeling about Magnolia that is quite personal to you.  You're saying that Magnolia has a resonance that you can apply to your own deepest held beliefs.  If you see it, it's there.  You not trying to tell us that we don't see what you see in it and, for that, we're idiot hipsters who only care about how our opinions "sound."

Mesh

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« Reply #119 on: June 03, 2003, 12:27:21 PM »
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Quote from: Phil Marlowe

when he tosses the word fag around, as you say, its all in good humor.


Yeah.  Ha, ha, ha.  Very funny.

Shut up.

 

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