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Joker (2019)

eward · 141 · 23817

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Drenk

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Reply #60 on: August 28, 2019, 01:57:11 PM
I'm there for Joaquin physical performance. I'm expecting competent filmaking, I really love some of the shots I've seen, even if they're heavily inspired by movies the bro culture embraced; it would have to be a complete clusterfuck if it really ends up being an alt-right manifesto. I'm worried about the girlfriend. In what world does he end up with a gorgeous woman?

But sympathy for a psychopath, especially a protagonist, is a truck I like in movies. It's never an apology of anything. Once again: it would have to be really bad for me to hate that angle.
I'm so many people.


jenkins

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Reply #61 on: August 28, 2019, 02:29:01 PM
yeah that’s a level perspective

it’s complicated for me in that the psychopath here is a pop culture celebration. however well he’s depicted he’s imaginary. however well suffering is depicted that’s not real. it’s illusory and that’s escapism. and maybe my best escapes happen in other ways


eward

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Reply #62 on: August 28, 2019, 02:40:43 PM
the bro culture

Created by some of its key players, the creative team behind Road Trip, Old School, and The Hangover franchise!
If I could move the night I would
And I would turn the world around if I could
There's nothing wrong with loving something you can't hold in your hand
You're sitting on the edge of the bed, smoking and shaking your head
Well there's nothing wrong with loving things that cannot even stand
Well there goes your moony man
With his suitcase in his hand
Every road is lined with animals
That rise from their blood and walk
Well the moon won't get a wink of sleep
If I stay all night and talk


eward

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Reply #63 on: August 28, 2019, 03:10:05 PM
If I could move the night I would
And I would turn the world around if I could
There's nothing wrong with loving something you can't hold in your hand
You're sitting on the edge of the bed, smoking and shaking your head
Well there's nothing wrong with loving things that cannot even stand
Well there goes your moony man
With his suitcase in his hand
Every road is lined with animals
That rise from their blood and walk
Well the moon won't get a wink of sleep
If I stay all night and talk


Drenk

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Reply #64 on: August 29, 2019, 06:40:38 AM
This one made me Laugh.Inside.Out.

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I'm so many people.


Drenk

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Reply #65 on: August 31, 2019, 02:22:33 PM
That kind of over the top praise is what jenkis anticipated. Personally, it cracks me up. They're like a broken record every time a Brand Movie is released.

I'm so many people.


jenkins

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Reply #66 on: August 31, 2019, 04:20:00 PM
he's an adult who's unable to believe in the existence of a Joker movie within a world potentially unable to handle its audacity

lmao. it's just veiled nonsense. within substantive comments being made, what's most disconcerting to me is its comparison to The King of Comedy, which is a flat movie thematically speaking


Dreidem

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Reply #67 on: August 31, 2019, 06:54:42 PM


Joker is currently enjoying positive critical buzz.
However, I imagine things are going to get a great deal more divisive.
The critics that love it really love it but the critics that hate it really hate it.

A great reason for this strong emotion is in part due to the film's political leanings.
Some feel it is a potently rebellious antidote for the Trump age, mass shooters and incels.
Others feel it is an emblematic validation of those very problems.



Drenk

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Reply #68 on: August 31, 2019, 07:16:46 PM
It's politically very superficial. The script, at least.

Since The Dark Knight, the Joker has been an inspirational figure for angry, lonely white dudes on the internet: some people will see what they want to see. A lot of men will never see the irony in Fight Club. Some people will read a religious text and decide to kill some folks. Etc.
I'm so many people.


jenkins

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Reply #69 on: September 01, 2019, 12:11:18 AM
if Uncut Gems was being celebrated like this that’d be more exciting basically


trytotell

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Reply #70 on: September 01, 2019, 10:03:19 AM
I just hope after this (after he wins an Oscar?), Phoenix retires this kind of role. His acting has been stale and a little "off" for me lately. Ever since that Woody Allen movie.



Drenk

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Reply #71 on: September 01, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
I don't agree; outside of Joker, he's not really trying to recapture Freddie, his part on the Ramsay flick was its own thing, and The Sister Brothers is such a bad movie that I had forgotten that Phoenix was awful in it, but that's only one example. He did play Jesus, too, right? I haven't imagined this?
I'm so many people.


trytotell

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Reply #72 on: September 01, 2019, 10:22:47 AM
I don't agree; outside of Joker, he's not really trying to recapture Freddie, his part on the Ramsay flick was its own thing, and The Sister Brothers is such a bad movie that I had forgotten that Phoenix was awful in it, but that's only one example. He did play Jesus, too, right? I haven't imagined this?

Yeah, he played it exactly like a grumpy Doc Sportello IMO.

Everything lately is a damaged/depressed guy, an alcoholic, or a depressed/damaged alcoholic. It's all blurred together.


eward

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Reply #73 on: September 03, 2019, 10:40:48 AM
Glenn Kenny weighs in and, yunno, I believe him. (light spoilers)

JOKER - **

In mainstream movies today, “dark” is just another flavor. Like “edgy,” it’s an option you use depending on what market you want to reach. And it is particularly useful when injected into the comic book genre.   

Darkness no longer has much to do with feelings of alienation the filmmaker wants to express or purge, as was the case with a film like “Taxi Driver.” It’s not about exploring uncomfortable ideas, as was done in “The King of Comedy.” Do you think Todd Phillips, who co-wrote and directed “Joker,” and references those movies so often you might expect that Martin Scorsese was enlisted as an executive producer here as a way of heading off a plagiarism lawsuit, really cares about income inequality, celebrity worship, and the lack of civility in contemporary society? I don’t know him personally but I bet he doesn’t give a toss. He’s got the pile he made on those “Hangover” movies—which some believe have indeed contributed to the lack of civility in etc.—and can not only buy up all the water that’s going to be denied us regular slobs after the big one hits, he can afford the bunker for after the bigger one hits.

Which is not to go so far as to say that if you buy into “Joker,” the joke’s on you. (Except in the long run it really is.) If you live to see Joaquin Phoenix go to performing extremes like nobody’s business, this movie really is the apotheosis of that. As Arthur Fleck, the increasingly unglued street clown and wannabe stand-up comic down and out in what looks like 1980s Gotham (although who knows what period detail looks like in fictional cities), Phoenix flails, dances, laughs maniacally, puts things in his mouth that shouldn’t go there, and commits a couple of genuinely ugly and disgusting crimes with ferocious relish.

Much has been made, by Warner, and I guess DC Comics, of the fact that this is meant as a “standalone” film that has no narrative connection to other pictures in the DC Universe, but that’s having your cake and eating it too when you still name your lunatic asylum “Arkham” and your cinematic DC Universe is changing its Batmen every twenty minutes anyway. Maybe what they really mean is that this is the first and last DC movie that’s going to be rated R.

Which rating it thoroughly earns. The violence in this movie means to shock, and it does. Fleck’s alienation in the early scenes evokes Travis Bickle’s, but this movie is too chicken-livered to give Fleck Bickle’s racism, although it depicts him mostly getting hassled by people of color in the first third. Fleck is also fixated with a Carson-like talk-show host played by Robert De Niro, reversing the “King of Comedy” player positions. He also likes the black woman down the hall from him, played by Zazie Beetz. The casting is not just meant to give the movie bragging rights on the zeitgeist curve, but to evoke Diahnne Abbott in both “Taxi Driver” and “Comedy.” Fleck’s seemingly successful wooing of the character is a jaw-dropper that had me thinking Beetz ought to fire her agent, but a late-game clarification makes it … well, forgivable is not quite the word, but it will do.

As Gotham begins to burn (the civil unrest starts with a garbage strike), Fleck, who has been taken as a vigilante by much of the city’s 99%, doesn’t quite know what to make of his underground cult stardom. (The city is beset by rioters in clown makeup and clown masks; because this movie is rather suddenly behind the curve in “clowns-are-scary” awareness—only Pennywise gets a special dispensation these days—these sequences look like “The Revolt of the Juggalos” or something equally laughable.) His mom (Frances Conroy, the poor woman) has been writing letters to her former employer, the magnate Thomas Wayne, and Arthur opens one of the missives and reads them, learning something disturbing.

The storyline in and of itself is not a total miss. But once the movie starts lifting shots from “A Clockwork Orange” (and yes, Phillips and company got Warners to let them use the Saul Bass studio logo for the opening credits, in white on red, yet) you know its priorities are less in entertainment than in generating self-importance. As social commentary, “Joker” is pernicious garbage. But besides the wacky pleasures of Phoenix’s performance, it also displays some major movie studio core competencies, in a not dissimilar way to what “A Star Is Born” presented last year. (Bradley Cooper is a producer.) The supporting players, including Glenn Fleshler and Brian Tyree Henry, bring added value to their scenes, and the whole thing feels like a movie. The final minutes, which will move any sentient viewer to mutter “would you just pick a goddamn ending and stick to it?” are likely an indication of what kind of mess we would have had on our hands had Phillips been left entirely to his own cynical incoherent devices for the entire runtime. Fortunately, he gets by with a little help from his friends.
If I could move the night I would
And I would turn the world around if I could
There's nothing wrong with loving something you can't hold in your hand
You're sitting on the edge of the bed, smoking and shaking your head
Well there's nothing wrong with loving things that cannot even stand
Well there goes your moony man
With his suitcase in his hand
Every road is lined with animals
That rise from their blood and walk
Well the moon won't get a wink of sleep
If I stay all night and talk


Drenk

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Reply #74 on: September 03, 2019, 11:03:00 AM
It fits the script I read; the feeling of self-importance for such a superficial script may be annoying, but I still have faith in Phoenix. Oh! To simply enjoy a blockbuster! I have faith with this one!

 
I'm so many people.