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Once Upon A Time In Hollywood

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Something Spanish

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Reply #330 on: August 13, 2019, 10:52:42 AM
Seeing it on IMAX tomorrow. Apocalypse Now IMAX Sunday. Will be one satisfied moviegoer come Monday.


eward

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Reply #331 on: August 13, 2019, 01:45:35 PM
QT finally speaks out regarding the controversy surrounding the Bruce Lee scene.

SPOILERS

Quentin Tarantino Defends ‘Hollywood’ Bruce Lee Fight From Claims It Mocks the Late Action Star

Zack Sharf for IndieWire

Quentin Tarantino broke his silence on the backlash to “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood” during the film’s recent Moscow press conference. One of the biggest points of controversy surrounding the film is the scene in which Bruce Lee (Mike Moh) and Cliff Booth (Brad Pitt) fight each other on the set of “The Green Hornet.” Bruce Lee’s daughter, Shannon, condemned Tarantino for portraying the martial arts legend as an “arrogant asshole who was full of hot air,” while Lee’s protégé Dan Inosanto said the film did not accurately portray the late action star. Inosanto pointed to a line in Tarantino’s script where Bruce Lee makes a dig at Muhammad Ali and said Lee “would have never said anything derogatory about Muhammad Ali because he worshiped the ground Muhammad Ali walked on.”

“Bruce Lee was kind of an arrogant guy,” Tarantino told press about depicting the actor in such a cocky manner. “The way he was talking, I didn’t just make a lot of that up. I heard him say things like that to that effect. If people are saying, ‘Well he never said he could beat up Mohammad Ali,’ well yeah he did. Alright? Not only did he say that but his wife, Linda Lee, said that in her first biography I ever read. She absolutely said that.”

Bruce Lee fans have also taken Tarantino to task for the outcome of the fight scene. Bruce challenges Cliff to a three round fight, easily winning the first round by kicking Cliff to the floor within seconds. Cliff takes the second round in more brutal fashion by throwing Bruce into the side of a car. The two are neck and neck in the third round when the fight is broken up. There’s no actual winner of the fight, although many found it distasteful that Tarantino could diminish Bruce Lee’s fighting skills by having him thrown into a car by Cliff.

“Could Cliff beat up Bruce Lee? Brad would not be able to beat up Bruce Lee, but Cliff maybe could,” Tarantino said. “If you ask me the question, ‘Who would win in a fight: Bruce Lee or Dracula?’ It’s the same question. It’s a fictional character. If I say Cliff can beat Bruce Lee up, he’s a fictional character so he could beat Bruce Lee up. The reality of the situation is this: Cliff is a Green Beret. He has killed many men in WWII in hand to hand combat. What Bruce Lee is talking about in the whole thing is that he admires warriors. He admires combat, and boxing is a closer approximation of combat as a sport. Cliff is not part of the sport that is like combat, he is a warrior. He is a combat person.”

Tarantino summed up the fight by adding, “If Cliff were fighting Bruce Lee in a martial arts tournament in Madison Square Garden, Bruce would kill him. But if Cliff and Bruce were fighting in the jungles of the Philippines in a hand-to-hand combat fight Cliff would kill him.”

“Once Upon a Time in Hollywood” is now playing in theaters.
The face in the misty light...


eward

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Reply #332 on: August 14, 2019, 12:45:16 AM
The face in the misty light...


Robyn

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Reply #333 on: August 16, 2019, 02:42:57 PM
I was worried when this was first announced, and then I was filled with doubt when the reviews came out, but god was I wrong... this was amazing. I wouldn't cut a single second. Where was the boring parts people has talked about?

Spoiler: ShowHide
The friendship at the center of the movie is enormously and effortlessly moving, and probably the best "bromance" I've seen in any medium. But I was even more moved by everything with Sharon Tate. I appreciate that Quentin and Margot Robbie have such a delicate touch with this character. They give us a full sense of Sharon's humanity—she's such a beacon of light here—while preserving a mythical quality about this historical figure.

For that reason, this is one of QT's very best endings. We're caught up in the wish fulfillment and quite happy about that last very sweet scene, but that makes the moment even more heartbreaking. Because you're reminded of exactly what was lost, and what could have been that was stolen.



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I absolutely love the way QT deflates and belittles the Manson family. Some have criticized this choice as historically inaccurate, claiming that they had actual sophistication and goals and wanted to start a race war, etc. But I don't know. That take is not only debatable, it's just not worth exploring. QT had the opportunity to dig into this juicy content about these psychopaths who had crazy/interesting ideas, but he resisted on principle, instead giving them exactly the treatment they deserve. We even get a brief scene where one of the girls describes her dumb philosophical idea, and it's just as contemptibly stupid as it probably was in reality. Bravo, in my opinion.

Seeing some critiques that Sharon Tate was under-served by the film. I mean, I get it, but that's such a surface-level reading. If you accept that she's a side character (which some people can't, and that's fair), she's about as full as a side character can get. The portrayal is luminous and almost angelic but stops just short of putting her on a pedestal. For example the way she seeks attention at the movie theater is pitch-perfect, I think. She gets a little greedy there, but in a playful and understandable fashion, just being caught up in her fame and savoring it in an endearing way.

Lindsey Romain (film writer and Tate expert) praised the way QT focuses on Sharon Tate's work and career (theater scene) and intellect (bookstore scene) and her love of music (many scenes), rather than simply obsessing about her beauty as others have.


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This is spot on. They handled Tate in such a delicate and respectful way. At the end, I was so worried that she would get involved in the action, that it would fall flat but instead, it ended on that pitch perfect scene where she invited Dalton to her home. It was such a sad ending and a reminder that while fairytales and movies are great as escapism (god, how amazing was that scene with the flamethrower?), real life will eventually come knocking and it's not as comforting as the movies.

Actually, this was the perfect setting for a Tarantino hangout film. The real life horrors of the Manson murders made the experience so tense. It let the film breathe and focus on the character arcs without losing that trademark Tarantino tension. I'm sure I'll enjoy this film in a very different way on a rewatch, without anticipating that final act and asking myself; how will he'll make this work?


Anyway, I love Tarantino in this mood. When he's not making ambitious set pieces, he'll make everything feel like such a joy, and all day could I watch Booth and Dalton driving around LA, or Tate dancing down the street. And there was so much love put into this. It was everything I love about cinema. The reason why he's my favorite current director together with PTA. He's loves doing this, and there no one else that could make such an amazing love letter to film as a medium.

It's sad that he will only make one more film after this. This felt like a new Tarantino, the start of something different, and it's disappointing that he will only make one more. But as for now, I will enjoy this for what it is; probably one of the best films he'll ever make.


Robyn

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Reply #334 on: August 16, 2019, 02:51:16 PM
Also, why are people complaining about the lack of dialogue from Tate? Margot Robbie was such a fucking force in this. She didn't need to say anything.


Axolotl

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Reply #335 on: August 16, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
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Tate was an angel in this movie. And any other way to present her would have been an offensive disservice.


Fucking masterpiece.


wilberfan

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Reply #336 on: August 16, 2019, 04:02:14 PM
For the sake of argument (and I felt this way), I think her relative lack of dialogue made her a bit of a one-dimensional cipher.  Just an embodiment of beauty, with no human complexity.  Now, to be fair, that's all we (as the public) essentially knew about her--especially in death.  But I think she would have been more interesting with more to do and say. 
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eward

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Reply #337 on: August 16, 2019, 04:02:32 PM
So glad you loved it Robyn!
The face in the misty light...


Axolotl

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Reply #338 on: August 16, 2019, 04:09:35 PM
For the sake of argument (and I felt this way), I think her relative lack of dialogue made her a bit of a one-dimensional cipher.  Just an embodiment of beauty, with no human complexity.  Now, to be fair, that's all we (as the public) essentially knew about her--especially in death.  But I think she would have been more interesting with more to do and say.
Nah, her theater scene was more human than anything QT has done since Jackie Brown. If you don't find depth in her revelling in the reaction the crowd has to her slapstick, IDK what to tell you. It's what I would have been like if I'd had a hollywood movie.


eward

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Reply #339 on: August 16, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
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Plus, seeing Margot Robbie as Sharon Tate watching and admiring the real Sharon Tate up on the screen, adorned with Sharon's own personal jewelry and radiating her spirit, just makes it all the more beautiful and moving.
The face in the misty light...


Robyn

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Reply #340 on: August 16, 2019, 04:28:21 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but there's a difference between portraying Rick and Cliff and a real-life person like Tate. What else could she be doing in this movie? She had a very specific role in it, and the film portrayed parts of her personality that we know. It felt respectful rather then turning her into something else. Idk...

So glad you loved it Robyn!

 :-D


Drenk

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Reply #341 on: August 16, 2019, 04:37:43 PM
SPOILERS

There's some joy to be find in the uneventfullness of her days, of a life just going by, simply, calmly, a joy in having her being a living, gleeful person instead of a famous disfigured corpse. That's why knowing the ending does the reverse of spoiling; with a suspens, it feels...awful. But he would have never killed her. I also loved that she is not involved at the end. Another day. Another night.
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Drenk

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Reply #342 on: Yesterday at 10:48:22 AM
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That began as a tweet but then I was reminded that you can't develop a though in one tweet and that Tweeter isn't a forum—most people don't really care about a conversation, presenting a pristine showcase of their personality is what the tool is about. I prefer forums. It's about the conversation.

So: regarding the fact that Tarantino doesn't delve into the beliefs of the Manson family:

It was very cathartic to see that Tarantino highlighted the ridiculousness of these people; after the attacks in Paris I had a hard time associating the apparent debility of the terrorists and the "seriousness" of their religious beliefs and the damage they had done, of course they did have these beliefs—but they were essentially confused morons.
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Something Spanish

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Reply #343 on: Yesterday at 11:09:59 AM
It is pretty crazy how when Manson shows up he's never identified by name, you have to have some familiarity to know that that's Manson. Like at the Playboy mansion there's little titles identifying Mcqueen and Phillips, but when Manson shows up you either know it's him or you have no idea what the fuck that scene's about. 


eward

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Reply #344 on: Yesterday at 11:40:28 AM
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Part of what makes me want to read the script is to see how he handles moments like that writing-wise. Is it like Cliff removes his shirt and woah abs and then across the property, walking up the driveway comes Charles Manson... or Suddenly, the Manson girls come skipping up the hill, hand in hand, singing in unison, IN GLORIOUS 35MM... or does he employ more specifically evocative descriptions that require about as much background info be brought to the table by the reader as the movie itself demands from the audience?
The face in the misty light...