Author Topic: Demographic of PTA fans  (Read 4972 times)

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ono

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2018, 12:38:19 AM »
+2
It's off base in that I've searched long and hard, and there are few American auteurs that are making meaningful work these days.  How can we even begin to measure such a thing?

First, spitball who you think are the best directors working today.  I'm sticking to just Americans to try to make things simple.  Aronofsky, maybe, though I haven't seen mother! and didn't care for Black Swan.  I think for my money, he's probably the closest thing to PTA, and it's not even close.  I'm behind on what Wes Anderson is doing, but his older stuff doesn't have as deep an emotional resonance.  The Coen Brothers make too many movies and produce too many stinkers.  Soderbergh too.  He's like the Ryan Adams of film.  Solondz has made a couple okay films, but he's way too cynical, and way too obscure.  Todd Haynes, just too obscure.  Payne and O. Russell have slipped.  Lee fell off the deep end a long time ago.  Eastwood talks to chairs.  Larry Clark... haha.  Harmony Korine, just not polished enough.  The only other person I would consider is Christopher Nolan, but I really don't care for him.  Following sucked, Memento was overrated, and then he made remade Batman and I stopped caring.  Too bad David Gordon Green resorted to making stoner comedies.  15 years ago, he was supposed to be the next PTA.  Tarantino's kind of -- sold out isn't quite the word, but after Jackie Brown none of his work has had much soul.  Allen's body of work is not really visually oriented enough for us to consider him a film auteur.  He films glorified plays.  A lot of really good, funny plays, don't get me wrong.  But still.  Oh, and Scorsese isn't great.  Fincher?  Linklater?  Smith?  I like them all for various reasons, but they were afterthoughts on this post for good reason.  Still worth a mention.

I don't want to "appear intellectual" by loving PTA's films.  My intellectual exercise has led me to the conclusion that there is no one more skilled and consistent than Paul Thomas Anderson working today.

Not that IMDb is the be all end all arbiter of who is best, but they're a good indicator of quality.  Anything above a 7 is usually worth your time.  So for PTA, IMDb says:

Hard Eight 7.3
Boogie Nights 7.9
Magnolia 8.0
Punch-Drunk Love 7.3
There Will Be Blood 8.1
The Master 7.1
Inherent Vice 6.7
Junun 7.5
Phantom Thread 8.8 (!)

7.63 average.  Phantom Thread will come down soon enough, but still, that's pretty amazing.  I'm surprised at how low The Master rates, considering my own personal regard for it.  If you didn't know any better, you'd think PTA had been in a slump post CMBB.

As for Aronofsky:

Pi 7.4
Requiem for a Dream 8.3
The Fountain 7.3
The Wrestler 7.9
Black Swan 8.0
Noah 5.8
Mother! 6.8

7.24 average.  But, Aronofsky loses 1 point for the porno 'stache, and 1 point for making Noah, on pure principal.

I think the other Anderson is the only one who is comparable as far as his relationship to the camera goes.  Although to be fair, his strengths really lie in art direction.  His films are like moving picture books.  How does he stack up?

Bottle Rocket 7.1
Rushmore 7.7
Royal Tenenbaums 7.6
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou 7.3
The Darjeeling Limited 7.2
Fantastic Mr. Fox 7.8
Moonrise Kingdom 7.8
The Grand Budapest Hotel 8.1

7.575 average.  Even with Wes Anderson's INCREDIBLY consistent output, he doesn't quite eclipse PTA.  This is probably partly because Phantom Thread's 8.8 is skewing things a tiny bit, but I am impressed to see it that close.  I think it's easy to write Wes off because his style is often imitated.  But you can't deny he makes solid films and does key things very well.  What also detracts from him, though, is that his films are comedic in nature.  It makes it hard for some people to take him seriously, and it becomes harder for him to truly plumb the depths of the human soul when so many moments are played for laughs, even as heartbreaking as they may be.

I'm betting Nolan will probably best PTA on this metric, but again, I don't care.  He doesn't meet my definition of auteur because of his affinity for popcorn cinema, and yawn inducing subject matter such as that of Dunkirk.  For me, his films don't have the emotional resonance the Andersons -- or even Aronofsky -- do for that matter.

Fine, I'll do Nolan, too:

Following 7.6
Memento 8.5
Insomnia 7.2
Batman Begins 8.3
The Prestige 8.5 (!) -- I had no idea that was so highly regarded
The Dark Knight 9.0 -- This is where IMDb fails, because the comic book stuff will really skew his rating
Inception 8.8
The Dark Knight Rises 8.4
Interstellar 8.6
Dunkirk 8.1

Average: 8.3(!).  If you didn't know any better, you'd think Nolan was the savior of cinema.  Nope, just really popular with the comic book crowd.

So maybe this isn't the best metric to illustrate this point.  But I think it does a good job of illustrating another: if any director were one that you could say were liked only because you were a "frat boy" -- or better yet, "comic book lover", it would be Nolan.

How does the GOAT measure up?

Fear and Desire 5.6
Killer's Kiss 6.7
The Killing 8.0
Paths of Glory 8.4
Spartacus 7.9
Lolita 7.6
Dr. Strangelove 8.5
2001: A Space Odyssey 8.3
A Clockwork Orange 8.3
Barry Lyndon 8.1
The Shining 8.4
Full Metal Jacket 8.3
Eyes Wide Shut 7.4 (that's a point too low -- needs another 15 years, I guess, to be appreciated)

Average: 7.8, with no comic books.  And order is restored to the world.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2018, 12:54:11 AM »
+1
A review from another site referred to Paul fanbase as being a bunch of testosterone-driven frat boys who want to appear intellectual by watching his films.

The statement may be hyperbolic and contrary, as the commentator dislikes his work, isn't there some truth that Xixax premiere director just happens to be liked primarily by the bros?  Not trying to rally the forum senses buds, just asking a simple honest question.

PTA writes a lot of stories about father/son relationships, so if his fanbase skews a bit male, that's probably why.

But if we're really naming the auteur directors that "bros" like, it's obviously Nolan and Tarantino. (And the ratings Ono posted from the male-dominated IMDb bear that out.)
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2018, 01:04:48 AM »
+1
Oh, and Scorsese isn't great.

http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=13783.0

I would fight you, but I'm actually not passionate about any of Scorsese's movies.
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ono

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2018, 01:12:01 AM »
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Aw, that's okay.  That just about kinda sums up Scorsese though, doesn't it?  And I'm sorry I left out Lynch.  :oops:

Punch Drunk Hate

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2018, 01:16:25 AM »
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A review from another site referred to Paul fanbase as being a bunch of testosterone-driven frat boys who want to appear intellectual by watching his films.

The statement may be hyperbolic and contrary, as the commentator dislikes his work, isn't there some truth that Xixax premiere director just happens to be liked primarily by the bros?  Not trying to rally the forum senses buds, just asking a simple honest question.

PTA writes a lot of stories about father/son relationships, so if his fanbase skews a bit male, that's probably why.

But if we're really naming the auteur directors that "bros" like, it's obviously Nolan and Tarantino. (And the ratings Ono posted from the male-dominated IMDb bear that out.)

That would go for most filmmakers, as they tend to be male and safely stay in their comfort zone making films featuring male protagonists. With few exceptions such as Todd Haynes, you don't see consistant quality contemporary American auteurs who make female-centered pictures. The strong gaps in the IMDB ratings eluded to assuming PTA fanbase being mainly male. 


Yes, Nolan and Tarantino definitely have a grip on the "bro" crowd. Hate to say to the fans of his but Kubrick seems to fall into the dudebro pantheon based off those ratings.

ono

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2018, 01:23:54 AM »
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Yeah, all the bros just go nuts over Barry Lyndon.

Punch Drunk Hate

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2018, 01:25:41 AM »
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Full Metal Jacket and A Clockwork Orange would fall under "bro" territory. Unlikely you're typical fraternity member is going to be caught watching Barry Lyndon, or they'll be bored by Eyes Wide Shut.

jenkins

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2018, 01:27:18 AM »
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That just about kinda sums up Scorsese though, doesn't it?

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ono

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2018, 01:28:35 AM »
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yes

jenkins

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2018, 01:30:16 AM »
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it's just clearly not an objective conversation is what i'll say

Punch Drunk Hate

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2018, 01:39:05 AM »
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And I'm sorry I left out Lynch.  :oops:


I'll chimed myself in more IMDB stats.

Eraserhead: 7.4
The Elephant Man: 8.2
Dune: 6.6
Blue Velvet: 7.8
Wild at Heart: 7.2
Twin Peaks: Fire Walks with Me: 7.2
Lost Highway: 7.6
The Straight Story: 8.0
Mulholland Drive: 8.0
Inland Empire: 7.0

jenkins

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2018, 02:33:09 AM »
+1
i think the ono post was in partial play and i think it was a good play. it's tough to beat PTA in terms of how good he is. in terms of cultural impact and influence upon global cinema, Scorsese, whose last three have been homeruns. and Shutter Island is sitting at 8.1. so that works on the side of Scorsese not reaching his furthest and on the side of lol imdb scores. Lynch's impact upon the collective imagination isn't duplicable and he's a true rare bird. cultural impact, influence upon global cinema, and inspiration within a collective imagination tell me way, way more than imdb scores. i haven't even mentioned the breadth of the human condition Scorsese has explored, or how i think Shutter Island has a certain hilarity.

they're older though, that's a thing to. we've seen and felt their impact. we've seen and felt the impact of PTA too, but not to such a scale. he's a reference point. QT reached that scale, and he's got a 60s Manson movie ahead plus maybe Star Trek. Wes Anderson reached that scale, like ono mentioned. there's a certain elegance in PT's scale being of the interior variety, granted. like i granted how good he is. but it's pretty tough to say he's the unrivaled best, without even mentioning Spielberg except just now. and Malick. and let's see what you're doing when you're Clint Eastwood's age.

literally any other piece of outside data would be more interesting to me than the imdb score. but again, i think it was a playful intensity that began this, and PT fans are notorious for their intensity. PT is the best according to PT fans, who are many, so props.

BB

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2018, 02:56:34 AM »
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There's definitely a general spike in attention being paid though. And this is after IV, probably his most divisive picture. It's been discussed elsewhere but the online film community seems to have really rallied around PTA in recent years, which I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) exceeds only the diehards.

I'm not really one to rate and rank so there's a disinclination to label him THE BEST, but there is a certain excitement associated with his films that I don't really get with other directors. Totally see the fun in hunting for a messiah too.

Rethinking the bro thing ... there are art bros. And PTA would be their fav. Are they less shameful than regular bros? I don't know.

Something Spanish

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2018, 10:06:04 AM »
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Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, King of Comedy, Goodfellas, After Hours, Casino, Bringing Out the Dead, WoWS, The Departed, weren't made by a great filmmaker?

ono

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Re: Demographic of PTA fans
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2018, 11:08:21 AM »
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Here's where I'm coming from: Mean Streets bored me; Casino, while solid, is just Goodfellas all over again; and The Departed is not that great a movie and a remake to boot.  I haven't seen a couple of those on the list, but the point is, Scorsese isn't consistent and he repeats himself.  I don't deny he's made some great films.  Taxi Driver fits, but it's bro-nip if ever I've seen it.  Does that discredit him?  Nah.  But he sticks to the same genre.  A great filmmaker will do different things, and not keep going back to where he's comfortable.  Scorsese keeps going back to the crime well.  Plus, the films I've seen of his don't have an emotional resonance that makes for a great filmmaker.

 

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