Author Topic: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!  (Read 14067 times)

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wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2017, 02:46:38 PM »
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How did you guys read the ending, in terms of tone? I found it to be sinister and unsettling (as did the friend I saw the film with) but many reviews and reactions that I have read seem to have seen it differently, with the resolution being sort of a "isn't love strange" type of thing.

It's been almost three weeks since I've seen it, so it's begun to fade a little...but I recall having a really big smile on my face having realized what was really going on between them.  I don't remember having any sense of judgement, etc, towards them, more of a "Oh, good for you two to have discovered something that makes you both so happy..."
"There's shadows in life, baby."

wilder

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #76 on: December 13, 2017, 03:05:30 PM »
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Quote from: wilberfan
I recall having a really big smile on my face having realized what was really going on between them.  I don't remember having any sense of judgement, etc, towards them, more of a "Oh, good for you two to have discovered something that makes you both so happy..."

The elliptical implications of bdsm are certainly fine if entered into voluntarily. The movie doesn’t exactly paint Alma as a willing participant in submission in the beginning, it all comes as a slow surprise, and things like the private dinner she cooks are clearly not intended to be stages for her own belittlement, from her own end - at the time this occurs, she very explicitly wants to do something nice for Reynolds.

At some point this turns, and Alma realizes that the only way she can stay with him is if she ceases fighting his control of her, that is until their “special agreement” is reached, because he’s incapable of operating any other way. The story is interesting in its statement about love because one individual is imposing his will on the other, and while participatory in the end, their sexual natures are not totally compatible at the outset, and Alma is the one who sacrifices to make them so. Reynolds only engages in the inverse of what he’s used to, but it’s a car traveling in the opposite lane on the same highway, not a perpendicular interstate which is where Alma initially came from. That other road, not belonging to him, is a place he’s unwilling to go. This car analogy is horrible but I think it makes sense.

Pringle

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #77 on: December 13, 2017, 06:48:07 PM »
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What a wonderful, rich film we've been given to digest!

I think the mother bit has a huge deal to do with it. Part of what disturbed me about the film was my interpretation of why Reynolds agreed to eat the mushrooms: the image of his beloved Mother only came to him when he was in his fever dream poison trip, and his desire to return to his Mother again is directly tied in his mind to the eating the mushrooms. Which leads to another, probably obvious reading of the film as an allegory of some sort about artists who become dependent on self destructive substances, and the people around these artists who feed them these substances for their own gain. Alma seemed less like "the one person on Earth who really understood him" than she did like an addict's spouse who enables the addiction in order to maintain the security of the relationship. After all, Alma clearly got off on the power of being Mrs. Reynolds Woodcock. Clearly, ingesting these mushrooms is very unhealthy and, while they may not kill Reynolds now, the repeated ingestion of them can not lead to anything good, and how sustainable is this situation they're in?

I couldn't help but think of people like Prince and, yes, Philip Seymour Hoffman.

jenkins

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #78 on: December 13, 2017, 07:19:36 PM »
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the mother philosophy has been very on point.

csage97

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2017, 01:21:18 AM »
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I read somewhere that there are lots of cross fades in the film. Anyone care to confirm who's seen it?

Tictacbk

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2017, 03:55:54 AM »
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We were very specifically asked not to reveal anything about crossfades at our screening. Sorry, you'll just have to wait and see.

csage97

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2017, 10:57:38 AM »
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We were very specifically asked not to reveal anything about crossfades at our screening. Sorry, you'll just have to wait and see.

By whom? The staff? PTA? You don't have to answer. I don't know if you're wholly serious, but I'll buy it. That's interesting that they were specific about it. Your response kind of confirms it, anyway .... :P

modage

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2017, 11:04:00 AM »
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He’s totally kidding. And I can’t remember anything specifically about cross fades except maybe in a couple instances.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

csage97

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2017, 11:40:06 AM »
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He’s totally kidding. And I can’t remember anything specifically about cross fades except maybe in a couple instances.

I've been had. I pictured PTA standing up there, saying, "and don't mention anything about all those cross fades throughout the film."  :yabbse-grin:

wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2017, 01:49:39 PM »
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I've been had. :\

Indeed.  There's a lot of that going around.
"There's shadows in life, baby."

Tictacbk

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2017, 02:09:17 PM »
+1
Haha sorry, dumb joke.

csage97

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #86 on: December 15, 2017, 07:13:15 PM »
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Haha sorry, dumb joke.

Heh, no problem at all. I am a just a gullible goose!  :yabbse-grin:

jenkins

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #87 on: December 16, 2017, 10:39:35 PM »
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Molly Haskell's Film Comment quote from the Best Films list. is this comment a spoiler? i'd actually place it in the non-spoiler thread after the current post, but the guy is sending messages about preserving his virginity as well so it's like, do i touch him or not

there couldn't be a movie that made anything near lick a sense if not for Vicky Krieps, i think, i agree with Molly Haskell

Quote
Opposite Daniel Day-Lewis as Reynolds Woodcock, Vicky Krieps’s Alma emerges as the perfect figure for Woodcock’s purposes (and designs)—embodying the freshness of youth, while stolid enough to withstand his frenzies. Intriguingly, and for the first time in Anderson’s career, the woman becomes the real protagonist.

maybe everyone said that, i don't actually read the critics. i looked at year-end lists this year, as sort of like a summary about how the critics felt this year.

wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #88 on: December 16, 2017, 10:50:31 PM »
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Molly Haskell's Film Comment quote from the Best Films list.

Today I learned Molly Haskell is still alive and still reviewing films.
"There's shadows in life, baby."

wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2017, 06:38:08 PM »
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[Rolling my eyes]

P.T. Anderson’s Phantom Thread Couldn’t Come At A Worse Time

Quote
Phantom Thread, which pushes the narrative that geniuses are on some level allowed to be abusive. If your work is beautiful enough, your soul can be made of scabs and darkness. The world excuses so much if you’re talented and male.
"There's shadows in life, baby."

 

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