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the house that jack built

Robyn · 61 · 6218

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©brad

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Reply #30 on: December 15, 2018, 02:29:19 PM
What a buncha pearl-clutching pussies that stormed out of this at Cannes!

Seriously, fuck anyone that rails against von Trier because he “hates women.” You’re clearly not watching closely enough if you come away from any of his films convinced he’s anything but a humanist.

You hear that ladies? Don't be such pussies! Let me mansplain this so you understand, and if you don't, fuck you.

Sheesh, and we wonder why our female membership isn't skyrocketing.

As for this flick, does it make a point? Most of these reviews are saying it's hysterical and not as disgustingly violent as critics say, but that's pretty much it. Post-Melancholia Von Trier wallows in filth and provocation without saying much of anything.


eward

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Reply #31 on: December 15, 2018, 03:16:33 PM

You hear that ladies? Don't be such pussies! Let me mansplain this so you understand, and if you don't, fuck you.

Sheesh, and we wonder why our female membership isn't skyrocketing.


Oh please. My point is that the controversy surrounding his films, particularly nowadays, is click-baity and overblown and I suspect largely fashionable, and it is my opinion that he's responsible for, along with his consistently brilliant leading ladies, some of the most luminous, loving, and enduring portrayals of females in all of cinema, regardless of the darkness or torment surrounding them. In no way did I direct my comments at "ladies", nor did I "mansplain". I think his films are unfairly maligned, and for very shallow reasons. And incidentally, some of the most ardent von Trier supporters I know are incredibly strong, brilliant, sharply opinionated women.
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©brad

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Reply #32 on: December 15, 2018, 08:53:29 PM
Calling people pussies and telling anyone who disagrees with you to fuck off isn't a great look. You could have worded your point differently is all.




Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #33 on: December 16, 2018, 12:17:25 AM
I agree that LVT is a feminist. I'm not sure how unpopular that view is, but I wholeheartedly believe it. How could you not after watching Dogville? The argument usually goes that he enjoys punishing female protagonists... engaging in sadism because he hates women. Which is just absurd and simple-minded. I don't know how you can watch a movie like Dancer In The Dark and not see the humanity in his protagonist. LVT is clearly and unequivocally on her side.

Not a fan of Nymphomaniac, but even that movie has a clear-cut (and even radical) feminist message.
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jenkins

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Reply #34 on: December 16, 2018, 12:54:48 AM
I think he’s a humanist with female protagonists, personally. but that’s another topic and phrasing isn’t always easy, there’s no fight here


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #35 on: December 16, 2018, 01:04:18 AM
There's definitely room for argument. I'm not sure Dancer is specifically feminist... just not anti-female in the way some people think. Dogville, though, is absolutely feminist. And we even made the case for Antichrist in that thread.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


jenkins

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Reply #36 on: December 16, 2018, 01:37:05 AM
from a social perspective he is absolutely a feminist. but that's the easy fight. and my point was none of us are meaning to fight


Robyn

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Reply #37 on: December 16, 2018, 09:34:27 AM
zentropa made porn with exclusively female directors, and he has worked with jenle hallund who has researched feminist themes for his last three films. not even sure if it's an unpopular opinion to think that his films are feminist anymore


eward

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Reply #38 on: December 16, 2018, 10:42:21 AM
Calling people pussies and telling anyone who disagrees with you to fuck off isn't a great look. You could have worded your point differently is all.

You're right. I could have been less brash and crude. Forgive me, I was a few Proseccos deep, and feeling jesty. Also, I think I was spurred to excess by the sheer excitement of having finally seen the film and realizing that it was not nearly as bad as the Cannes coverage suggested and that the much-publicized outrage was predictably over-the-top. But such a display of ostensible arrogance on my part runs the risk of undercutting anything of substance I might have to add in future. Point taken.

Look, I totally get not being into his films. They're polarizing by design. But so much of what I hear bandied about (largely in the twittersphere) regarding him and specifically his work I find irritatingly reductive and rarely strikes me as being the result of any real critical thinking.
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #39 on: December 16, 2018, 10:48:52 AM
Look, I totally get not being into his films. They're polarizing by design. But so much of what I hear bandied about (largely in the twittersphere) regarding him and specifically his work I find irritatingly reductive and rarely strikes me as being the result of any real critical thinking.

Yup. That has been maddening to me in the same way for quite a while. Especially when one of my favorite critics or podcasters dismisses his work as "misery porn." There's just a little more to it than that.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


eward

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Reply #40 on: December 16, 2018, 10:55:50 AM
I must say...I'm starting to think von Trier maybe pays people to storm out in faux-outrage of large Cannes-style screenings these days. Such great, stirring publicity for him. His marketing campaigns seem ready to spring right on that stuff and use it ironically to their advantage within no time.

"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."


©brad

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Reply #41 on: December 16, 2018, 12:35:52 PM
Calling people pussies and telling anyone who disagrees with you to fuck off isn't a great look. You could have worded your point differently is all.

You're right. I could have been less brash and crude. Forgive me, I was a few Proseccos deep, and feeling jesty. Also, I think I was spurred to excess by the sheer excitement of having finally seen the film and realizing that it was not nearly as bad as the Cannes coverage suggested and that the much-publicized outrage was predictably over-the-top. But such a display of ostensible arrogance on my part runs the risk of undercutting anything of substance I might have to add in future. Point taken.

Look, I totally get not being into his films. They're polarizing by design. But so much of what I hear bandied about (largely in the twittersphere) regarding him and specifically his work I find irritatingly reductive and rarely strikes me as being the result of any real critical thinking.

All good. I'm certainly not immune to similar posts while buzzed, although I'm sure mine can be far more brazen.



pete

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Reply #42 on: December 17, 2018, 10:41:29 PM
hmm, three posters steamrolling imaginary opposition by bestowing the feminist plaque onto Von Trier. setting aside whether or not it's true (or if in 2018 we're still trying to end debates with "his work can't be misogynistic because he's a FEMINIST") - I also just can't believe that y'all gave him that title so easily because you like his characters, or that somehow it's impossible to consider liking something that IS misery porn or that female characters can have humanity and still exist in misogynistic work or even the idea that a film can be made multiple ways. But no, all that is impossible because Von Trier is a feminist therefore shut up twitter. My lord.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #43 on: December 18, 2018, 11:54:32 AM
I mean, if you want to discuss the merits, that would be fine.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #44 on: December 22, 2018, 11:04:05 PM
This managed to be a course correction from Nymphomaniac while still using some of its elements (with its narration and stock footage lectures). So that's impressive. I did feel like I was listening to an audiobook at some points, but in the end it worked. I think Von Trier would do well to set most of that aside, though. Maybe steer back toward Melancholia/Antichrist or do something new.

I agree with wilder. This was a straight-up dark comedy. Not even a horror comedy, really. And not even comic like Funny Games. Just 100% Von Trier. The song choice for the end credits does make that a little too obvious, though, for viewers who might not have known how to interpret the tone.

In the end I'm not totally sure how to feel. I have really high standards for LVT films, especially with my post-Nymphomaniac trepidation. I didn't dislike any of it, and there were some truly marvelous sequences. Whether it's much more than the sum of its parts, I can't say. I'll have to let this sink in a bit.

SPOILERS

So, LVT went out of his way to make Jack a bit of an MRA and a neo-Nazi. Nice. A little on-the-nose, but nice. I think I actually prefer that to moral ambiguity. Jack's house is not a place where subtlety lives. (That's my RT pull quote.) I also enjoyed that Jack's efforts to be high-minded and philosophical are ridiculous and are characterized as such. Direct parallel to Tom Edison in Dogville.
"Hunger is the purest sin"