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Making a Murderer

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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #30 on: January 16, 2016, 12:33:58 PM
Here's the way I'm looking at it. A documentary is not the place to determine Steven Avery's guilt or innocence. That is the domain of a fair trial in a court of law. What the documentary shows, and what none of the slew of "SHOCKING EVIDENCE LEFT OUT OF MAKING A MURDERER" articles negate, is that the trial he got was anything but fair.

I agree with that 100%, and just for clarity, I assume we're all taking that for granted.

i keep looking at the accusations that this doc is manipulative and i just don't see it. maybe i'm crazy.

"Shocking evidence left out" is one matter, but I'm talking about two very specific and demonstrable things. (1) Brendan's second interview (where he draws the pictures) — compare the transcript to the version that's in the doc. Their edit is plainly deceptive. Described here. (2) The filmmakers apparently ignored Jodi's plea to be removed from the doc because she was lying out of fear, and decided to instead give her and Steven a sweet romance that tragically ended too soon.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #31 on: January 21, 2016, 02:52:09 PM
At this point, I think there's at least a 75% chance that Steven Avery is innocent. Most of the further reading I've done has pushed me in this direction.

Teresa was not killed in Steven's bedroom or in his garage. That much is clear. She was probably killed at the quarry and initially burned there (the "secondary burn site"), then brought to Avery's property, perhaps in Teresa's RAV4. To state the obvious, Steven would have to be insane to bring the evidence home to further implicate himself. It's much more likely that was done by someone like Bobby Dassey and/or Scott Tadych.

The defense team has so many mic drop moments during the trial. Jerry Buting is particularly amazing. This interview with him is essential reading.

Steven's face during the verdict reading is very interesting to me. It doesn't say "damn, I didn't get away with it." Instead it's more like, I can't believe this... how could they get this wrong?... a great injustice has been done... they'll just put me away forever. If he's not innocent of this crime, he certainly in that moment believes he is.


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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #32 on: January 24, 2016, 02:17:55 AM
who else was distracted by the journalists? we've got eyebrow crease girl whose makeup seems to be done by robots or she has a constant projection onto her face to make her the hottest chick of all fucking time? i don't know.

I was more distracted by Laura Nirider.

but she pales in comparison to the guy that's obvious like 28 years old but has the hair of roger sterling from mad men. who the fuck is this guy. like seriously. i haven't done any research yet but jesus this man is like some kind of mutant old man who found the fountain of youth that only effects your body and leaves the hair untainted. this guy is amazing.

Well, premature greying is a thing. John Slattery, in fact, is a prime example, along with Anderson Cooper, Julian Assange, and many others. Less beautiful people don't qualify for "silver fox," so they have to dye their hair.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #33 on: January 28, 2016, 10:25:22 AM
Highly recommend

I know I probably say that too much. But this time I emphatically implore you to check this out:

One of my very favorite podcasts, Read It And Weep, has just tackled Making A Murderer. It's really insightful, but above all highly entertaining. And it's so fascinating to see which details from the series capture people's imagination.

#326 - Making A Murderer
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03

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Reply #34 on: February 07, 2016, 02:20:25 AM
This show hands down has the most incorrectly given title of anything that I've ever heard. I've heard it be referred to as how to make a murderer and in numerous podcast the making of a murderer. Seriously what's up with that


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Reply #35 on: February 07, 2016, 10:16:28 AM
There's the other show "How To Get Away With Murder" that I think has really interfered with people learning the title. I still think they should've gone with the original "Muderville, USA"
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Tictacbk

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Reply #36 on: February 10, 2016, 04:57:01 PM


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #37 on: February 29, 2016, 12:42:03 PM
The latest episode of This American Life — "Anatomy of Doubt" — is very reminiscent of Making A Murderer. There was a rape (not a murder), and it's more about police incompetence, ignorance, and prejudice than active corruption. But in all other ways, it very much hits the same points. You can just see things going wrong from the very beginning. (It's a collaboration with Pro Publica.)
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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #38 on: April 29, 2016, 01:18:56 PM
Making a Murderer was apparently the #1 most popular TV show among millenials (18-24) during the fall TV season.

http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/millennials-prefer-netflix-series-1201756677/
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Tictacbk

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Reply #39 on: April 29, 2016, 07:31:02 PM
Quote
Symphony studies multiplatform U.S. viewing based on listening apps audiences have been paid to download onto smartphones, PCs, tablets and other devices. These apps pick up sound from shows viewed on those platforms, spanning broadcast primetime series and streaming originals across Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and Crackle.

Whoa.


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #40 on: August 12, 2016, 03:43:33 PM
Brendan Dassey's conviction overturned

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-brendan-dassey-conviction-overturned-20160812-snap-story.html

A federal court in Wisconsin has overturned the conviction of a man found guilty of helping his uncle kill Teresa Halbach in a case profiled in the Netflix documentary "Making of a Murderer."

The U.S. District Court in Milwaukee on Friday overturned Brendan Dassey's conviction and ordered him freed within 90 days unless the case is appealed.

Dassey confessed to helping his uncle, Steven Avery, carry out the rape and murder of Halbach, but attorneys argued that the confession was coerced.

Dassey was 16 when Halbach was killed in 2005 after she went to the Avery family auto salvage yard to photograph some vehicles. Avery was tried and convicted separately in the homicide.

Dassey's case burst into the public's consciousness with the popularity of the "Making of a Murderer" documentary.
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Drenk

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Reply #41 on: August 12, 2016, 04:13:53 PM
What do you think about it? Even if he did help him it wasn't the movie version he gave. And he's obviously not dangerous. Anyway, I think that he shouldn'y live all his life behind bars.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #42 on: August 12, 2016, 04:26:02 PM
I can't conceive of a reason why he belongs in prison. Probably innocent. At the very least, not enough evidence to convict. He's basically the poster child for false confessions at this point. (Even if it wasn't a false confession, that's exactly how they happen.)
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polkablues

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Reply #43 on: August 12, 2016, 04:40:01 PM
I have almost no doubt in my mind that he is completely innocent. There is absolutely nothing against him besides the confession, which was not only egregiously handled by the cops and attorneys, but doesn't even correspond remotely to the actual physical evidence of the case.

I have an uncle who was a cop for 30-something years, a police chief for 15. He told me that if he saw that interrogation tape from officers who worked for him, they would have been immediately demoted or fired. It's only by the grace of the deep well of corruption and incompetence that permeated that county's systems that the confession was ever even presented at trial, much less became the sole point of evidence that convicted him.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #44 on: December 12, 2018, 05:12:10 PM
Just listened to Rebutting A Murderer to get a different perspective. This podcast was done by one of the reporters who covered the case, and he brings journalistic rigor to the story. I have to say, I was not expecting to be so thoroughly persuaded. In fact, it would take a lot to bring me back on board.

What this podcast does quite effectively is remind of you of all those "off" moments from the series, and you quickly realize that the entire show was constructed on suggestion, innuendo, and conspiracy theory, with very little compelling evidence. By contrast, the physical evidence against Steven Avery is actually overwhelming. Yes, the podcast goes through each allegation of evidence tampering and evidence planting and convincingly debunks most if not all of it.

I never thought I would be convinced of Brendan Dassey's guilt, but I have to say I'm leaning in that direction. I previously described how the show's handling of Brendan's interviews/interrogations was outright deceptive. What I didn't realize is just how thoroughly Brendan's answers lined up with the physical evidence. It's a coerced confession, clearly, but I'm not sure how "false" it actually is. I am not convinced that he would've had the information to make those connections were he not present during the murder and/or cleanup.

Many or most of these details he provides are unprompted. I'd be willing to hear a counter-rebuttal, but some of these connections are hard to get around. For example, Brendan describes Steven being sweaty and then messing with the battery in Teresa's car; Steven's sweat DNA was found on the hood latch, and the battery was indeed removed. Those details, as far as I know, were not planted in his mind by the cops.

More than anything, the show is absurdly misleading in nearly every episode, even and especially where it counts. They do things like construe blood DNA with sweat DNA, and claim that a DNA sample was tainted when actually the control sample was tainted, not the sample from the crime scene.

[Edit] Remembered another BS thing the show does. If I'm remembering correctly, the show (and/or Avery advocates) claim that Brendan saying they brought Teresa outside to be killed vs. in the garage to be killed is wildly/egregiously inconsistent. But this is what Brendan actually says:

"When we were done we took her off and we brung her outside into the garage and then he stabbed her and then shot her."
"Hunger is the purest sin"