Author Topic: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!  (Read 36928 times)

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Drenk

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2015, 08:49:10 AM »
+2
I thought the same thing, Porgy. This is a ghost story. When Shasta comes back for the couch scene, she could be a dark specter. A shadow. Also, she is a fantasy, what Doc thinks she was to Mickey. And we can also think he's hallucinating because, well, it strangely looks like a variation of the first scene. Of course, I'm with you, I hate the "THAT CHARACTER DOESN'T EXIST" theories, and in the book the fogginess of Shasta's presence is different. But Doc is haunted by Shasta. Shasta and the hippie's dream are fading; I love the last shot of the movie. In the book, Shasta isn't with Doc. But I'm not sure she's with him at the end of the movie either.

That's why Coy is important. Coy is, for Doc, a way to have a victory against death/corruption/what's going away. Coy is resurrected.

About what it says about America, it is in the movie. Strolling talks about "vertical integration", does she? Or maybe it isn't the exact term. Vertical something, anyway. America itself wins money with drugs with the help of the federals then wins money again fixing their teeth before transforming them into anti-communists with the help of nazis. Or something like that with different connections. Doc says: « Much, much more, what you would call, vast. », it isn't clear to give you an idea of the vastness.

With the boat, you have the idea of a sudden transformation by evil, hidden forces. What happened? How did it go away? (Sashta in the first scene/couch scene, the communist actor/anti-communist actor, Wolfmann totally broken after his "dream")

The nostalgia of America is harsh; at the end, Sortilège says there is no way to go back, basically, that we have to live in this world. And this nostalgia works, to me, because of the ex-old lady. Something I connect to. This isn't only about 60/70 the same way TWBB isn't only about capitalism. It's the feeling of something that goes away. An era or a lost love.

Look at Bigfoot. He hates hippies but he's a victim of America. Adrian Prussia is loved by the feds, and he killed his partner. Doc lost Shasta. And Don and Bigfoot become, in a way, a couple of broken couples -- if what I say makes some sense. Not a real couple (most of the time they're on the phone), but something strange. I didn't laugh when Bigfoot ate the weed, I felt like Doc. Where does Bigfoot belong? No-fucking where.
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modage

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2015, 09:07:21 AM »
0
I like this theory. It's wild, and maybe not intentional or some key to understanding the film or anything but certainly seems like a valid reading.

There's also the phone call where Bigfoot is fucking with Doc and saying, "She's gone, man" and Doc believes that she's dead.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #107 on: January 24, 2015, 10:32:38 AM »
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That's what I got from it too. Nothing with Shasta at the end seemed right, especially her reason for being gone (visiting family?). The way she's slinking around, the beach shots, and the car moment all feel like Doc fantasies.

It might be too far to say she wasn't there at the beginning.

Do people believe Joanna Newsom was real?
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Axolotl

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #108 on: January 24, 2015, 11:04:36 AM »
+3
especially her reason for being gone (visiting family?)
That's what she says initially. She later admits she was on the golden fang(she and puck have the same shell necklace or whatever) doc also checks her neck for bite marks(which puck later gives him).

Do people believe Joanna Newsom was real?
She's in his head but she's real. She's never actually in the car with him

putneyswipe

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #109 on: January 24, 2015, 06:19:31 PM »
+4
Just noticed this. Lanky, gray-haired elder gentleman on the bottom right. Given pynchon's history with orthodontics, this would be a clever coincidence, no?

JG

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #110 on: January 24, 2015, 06:27:41 PM »
0
i think that's a good guess!

Axolotl

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #111 on: January 25, 2015, 12:51:19 AM »
+7
She's not a ghost. I don't think anyone believes that she's a literal booooo ku klux klan hood type ghost. It's not a puzzle movie. Calling her a ghost is just one of the ways to express a specific type of cinematic irreality that's all over this movie which I think is a natural progression from the Master(it's like calling that theater dream phone call telepathy). It's one of those things that are ok to do in literature but when you do in movies people take issue with because they're so used to movies being externally explainable and logical.

N

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #112 on: January 25, 2015, 08:11:07 AM »
+3
She's not a ghost. I don't think anyone believes that she's a literal booooo ku klux klan hood type ghost. It's not a puzzle movie. Calling her a ghost is just one of the ways to express a specific type of cinematic irreality that's all over this movie which I think is a natural progression from the Master(it's like calling that theater dream phone call telepathy). It's one of those things that are ok to do in literature but when you do in movies people take issue with because they're so used to movies being externally explainable and logical.

Agreed! I couldn't have said it better myself, or at all actually. I know because I tried yesterday and it was so awful I had to delete it. So I'll add a few of my feelings here instead.
So Shasta's gone but not gone and not in a literal sense. It's something that's a part of Inherent Vice. Like the movie Inherent Vice but it's also part of Doc's inherent vice. Like his disposition. As I believe we've established, there's no Inception, that was no dream, change the entire meaning of the narrative malarkey going on here. I think Paul did a similar sort of thing with The Master, in regards to using ambiguity as a means for expressing both sides of the coin. Throughout the movie we're thrown snippets of this brotherhood and love between Freddie and Master that appears to transcend the realm of ordinary human connection. Like something strong and real that's more than the sum of it's parts and at the same time, to me, feels so fragile because all we have to go on is that the characters believe it and care for it. There's always the looming possibility or "reality" that tells us we're probably just watching two humans and their dreams. So when it comes to it's climax, near the end, the connection between the two feels so meaningful that it's not necessary or even wanted to differentiate between reality and irreality or surreality or any kind of permutation on reality. It's cinema and I wouldn't have it any other way. This goes for Inherent Vice, this post is still partially about Inherent Vice. Actually it's not. I made a post about The Master in the Inherent Vice thread. Sorry about that.

N

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #113 on: February 02, 2015, 11:49:21 PM »
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its not tearing up the box office just yet   :yabbse-sad: polarized reactions from my friends that have seen the film,,,,give it time...

I don't expect IV is going to blow up in a big way any time soon. I'd say it's already blown up in the circles that would be interested in it, like this place, most of us are into it. I wouldn't be surprised if people start to revisit the film after some time has passed, it took until after Kubrick's death for people to really start taking an obsessive interest, would be cool if the same thing happened with PTA, hopefully not post-mortem though.

modage

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #114 on: February 03, 2015, 08:32:54 AM »
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Yeah, it's done. Wide-release topped out at 653 screens. It's now down to 244 screens and only 7.5m. Would imagine it won't get very close to The Master's $16m, prob end up with $10-12m?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=inherentvice.htm
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Sleepless

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2015, 08:51:58 AM »
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The script was on ebay. Care to guess how much it sold for?

Would really like to get a hold of some version of this. No-one seen it available anywhere?

Drenk

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2015, 09:05:27 AM »
+6
You download the App Weekend Read, it has an Award Section with the IV script.
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Sleepless

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2015, 10:21:07 AM »
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You are a fucking star.

modage

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #118 on: February 08, 2015, 10:54:17 PM »
+2
That's great. I read the script and was surprised at how closely it tracks with the film. Even little moments that I thought for sure were part of the improvised madness were scripted exactly.

The biggest difference is basically just more dialogue and more narration which was trimmed down (including the closing passage in the book which would've stepped all over Doc & Shasta's nice final scene).

The only real deleted scenes of interest are two big ones: Doc walks into his office to find Tariq and Clancy fucking and then goes out to a Thomas Jefferson diner where he hallucinates having a conversation with the ex-prez while the other two are in the bathroom.

And the other one is Doc's PCP hallucination near the end, he imagines another version of himself that he speaks to as well as a personification of the Golden Fang who does some rather on-the-nose explaining of what it signifies.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Ulivija

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #119 on: February 13, 2015, 01:39:21 PM »
+1
Is "Well Mornin' Sam" (in Sortilege's introduction of Bigfoot) a reference to some TV show? I think that line can be heard at one point on Doc's TV in the background. Thanks!

Sortilège: [narrating] Well Mornin' Sam, like a bad luck planet in today's horoscope, here's the old hippie-hating mad dog himself in the flesh: Lieutenant Detective Christian F. "Bigfoot" Bjornsen. SAG member, John Wayne walk, flat top of Flintstone proportions and that evil, little shit-twinkle in his eye that says Civil Rights Violations.

 

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