Author Topic: True Detective  (Read 31280 times)

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polkablues

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2014, 05:46:55 PM »
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My guess is that Rust and Marty realize the department is corrupted and there is no way for them to investigate it as cops. I think Rust comes up with a plan that uses his talents of going DEEP undercover. Rust and Marty fake the fight/breakup. Rust leaves the force but doesn't disappear. He is actually investigating the entire time. I also don't believe Marty when he said he hasn't talked to Rust in ten years. I believe he has been helping Rust the entire time.

I'm thinking every word of this is spot on. They've already established how Rust was able to go undercover longer than any cop is supposed to be able to.

The king in yellow stuff mainly seems to be a clever bit of intertextuality by the writer, mainly there to provide color and hint at something terrifying right around  the corner.

You might be right, but I'm holding out hope that the season ends up diving headfirst into supernatural/existential-horror territory. That's what will push this series over the top from a great show to a legendary one.
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squints

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2014, 06:00:57 PM »
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Some of the theories people have been mentioning about where the show will go seem obvious but pretty spot on.

The one I haven't seen mentioned here is that it seems inevitable that  Marty's daughter will be entangled in this whole cult mess because she's just the type of target they're looking for.

I truly just can't stop thinking about this show.
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Lottery

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2014, 06:12:54 PM »
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You might be right, but I'm holding out hope that the season ends up diving headfirst into supernatural/existential-horror territory. That's what will push this series over the top from a great show to a legendary one.

Yeah, this episode especially, I was expecting it to tip over into some sort of Twin Peaks/Stephen King type business.

diggler

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2014, 06:15:05 PM »
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Nice catch with all the imagery involving five men standing around one girl. It plays nicely with Marty's "he was interviewing you" statement to the investigators. This show really nails the tone of a great mystery novel. None of the revelations feel forced and every plot mechanism has precedence with what we know about the characters. Few shows can handle that kind of narrative consistency.

Looks like the hot Amish girl from Banshee is back next episode.  :inlove:
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bigperm

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2014, 01:28:44 PM »
+2
Inspiration for True Detective? - long read but a damn good one -
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squints

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2014, 03:36:19 PM »
+1
“The myth by no means finds its adequate objectification in the spoken word. The structure of the scenes and the visible imagery reveal a deeper wisdom than the poet himself is able to put into words and concepts” – Friedrich Nietzsche

Mel

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2014, 03:32:24 AM »
+1
I need to rewatch all the episodes.

I rewatched episodes 1-3 so far and It does pay off. Some examples:

SPOILERS



I wasn't sure what Rust is looking here for. After visiting back episode one, it is pretty clear that report with Fontenot girl was filled as "Made in Error".



This I just like, as Rust goes back to school in episode 5 (with black stars around him at the end).



One of the more obvious examples why Cohle will likely go after Reverent Tuttle. Thing that slipped by me: tent preacher was for few years serving under Tuttle. Maybe this is coincidence, but Christian squad shows up right after Marty tells his lover (after sex) that there is more to case and children are missing, but they are keeping that from public - she works in courthouse, did she spread this knowledge?



One of the things that intrigues me. Rust tells that his daughter died in car accident. It doesn't sound like he is telling everything. Was he driving a car that day?
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bigperm

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2014, 09:24:58 AM »
+1
To add a few more observations after going back

SPOILERS

After re-watching the scene with Marty at his Father-In-Law's house, I sure as hell find something a bit off about Grandpa. Even when Marty's daughters are in the boat and seem stuck the younger says "should we ask Grandpa for help, and the older daughter instantly says NO. Even thought she changes her mind, this whole sequence at Grandpa's is weird and even Grandma is off. Marty shuts down the Grandpa with hie "old men say things all the time, then die and the world keep spinning line" (paraphrase sorry) He reminded me of Cohle a bit there but Grandpa seems pretty pissed after Marty walks away. If we haven;t said it yet high chance that not only does Marty's daughter end up in the middle of all this but may have already been exposed thus the drawings of nude people and the dolls in the gang bang type setting in her room. Just a thought.

I've noticed a few times that Marty seems to look down when he lies. At the shooting board, to the current time detectives, just an observation.

Also, in Cohle's "undercover toolbox" he had the flask and used it again going after Ginger when he went undercover again. Obviously he's had it in the modern time interrogations - could be nothing but just a thought.

This image, has stuck with me the most from episode 5 - it comes right after Cohle hears "The Yellow King" from the guy Cohle's interrogating who wants to cut the deal instead of going down for murder. I don't subscribe to the idea that Marty is in on any of this but I do maintains minor doubts and to cut to this right after that scene where we know the case wasn't solved, really chilled me. Again could be nothing at all.
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Mel

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2014, 09:51:52 AM »
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SPOILERS

Even when Marty's daughters are in the boat and seem stuck the younger says "should we ask Grandpa for help, and the older daughter instantly says NO.

I'm fairly sure it is the other way around. Maisie (they younger one, the good one) tells no.
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bigperm

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2014, 10:12:39 AM »
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sorry, wishful thinking.

Here's a cool site to track all the characters and other tidbits from the show

http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/
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Brando

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2014, 02:12:35 PM »
+1
Last night, I went through the episodes looking for clues. I looked at that billboard with the girl that shows up in episode 1 and then years later in episode 5. I paused it and looked at the police report of the 2012 victim. I listened to the names of the task force. I didn't come up with much. When Marty and Rust go to talk to the sheriff about the missing girl and the one that was chased through the woods by a "green eared spaghetti monster" The sheriff's office has two buck heads and one of those old beer mugs with relief sculpture of a tree. In his office he has two references to the crime scene. It's a stretch but the only thing I caught.

One of the more obvious examples why Cohle will likely go after Reverent Tuttle.

For anyone who didn't catch it in episode 5, the interrogators asked Marty if Rust ever mentioned Billie Lee Tuttle when he got back on to the case in 2002. Marty's response was "you know he did." Also, we already know Tuttle is dead. He died in 2010 from mixing up his pain pills right after Rust reappears in Louisiana. The interrogators believed there was foul play and Rust was involved in Tuttle's death. I also had forgotten that Tuttle institution created the Light of the Way school at the end of episode 5.

The biggest thing I haven't seen asked is why Dora Lang and why Stephanie Kordish (2012 victim)? Why are they killed and posed in such a way and not among one of the other "made in error" victims? Rianne Olivier was dumped in a swamp with nothing but with the symbol on her back. You can assume all the "made in error" victims were the same way.

So why are these two girls special? Why does the yellow king want these two girls death known and displayed this way? The relationship between Fathers and their Daughters has been important throughout the entire series. There is also a lot of references to child abuse. One of those or both could eventually play a part. Although, Dora Lang's father is dead and he was only a truck driver. Dora's mother did mention child abuse. She said, "Why would a father not bathe his own child?" 

The speech that Rust gives to the interrogators about how his daughter's death saved him from the sin of bringing a soul into existence keeps coming back to me. It continues the theme of Fathers and their daughters but can't really figure out how it relates to the killings.

I also read the original pilot script last night. It's not the script for the pilot episode but the script that was shopped around and eventually bought by HBO. There are some changes which I'll post for people who don't want to read it.


The location in the script is set in northwest Arkansas. Rust is from Louisiana rather than Texas. The crime scene is similar but instead of antlers Dora Lang has turkey wings attached to her back. The only important thing I took from the script was that it mentioned a character wore a Knights of Columbus ring. The character would also continually play with the ring. In the pilot episode that character doesn't do that but Billie Lee Tuttle is fidgeting with a ring on his hand.
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Re: True Detective
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2014, 06:14:36 PM »
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"this show is the new breaking bad" - 03

Mel

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2014, 07:19:26 PM »
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"this show is the new breaking bad" - 03

Please explain.
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Tictacbk

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2014, 10:19:31 PM »
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it's engrossing and worth discussion?

And in general a step above most other television?


Pubrick

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Re: True Detective
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2014, 11:42:14 AM »
+2
This is the worst show on television.

























Really.































Nah just kidding it's the best.


>>>Spoilers up to ep 5<<<

My favourite little detail is all the driving shots. The rear screen projection is so purpousely incongruous it reminds me of Alex driving in clork, and bill in the back of the cab in ews. The fact that Marty highlights the car as a place of "quiet contemplation" early on really places significance in the mental state of the occupants. It foreshadows the various flashbacks/hallucinatory trails that occur for rust in the car.

There's also a very interesting focus on the aerial top-down view of moving cars along the highway and other roads. Part of it is to display the iconic road/creek parallel lines we've seen from Easy Rider to FMJ. These are war zones in those narratives between cultures, and as Laszlo Kovacs says about the helicopter shot that ends easy rider,  it's also a serendipitous illustration of the conflict between man and nature.

This show's focus on man's nature goes very deep. Apart from the fact there's at least one character who's obsessed with the topic, the whole narrative is now recognized for it's unusual focus on the two investigators. These are people whose job it is to uncover the true nature of others.

Here the title of the show comes into play. The entire structure described above is self reflexive, we watch the watchmen. This is echoed as the show progresses in various forms as circles and cycles become more apparent. Ledoux says that time is a flat circle, and rust repeats this as he tells the investigators that they are all doomed to repeat their lives. Played out against the retelling of their lives, we can see that there is some truth to this insight in their own predicament.

Marty is not immune to the recursive nature of time. He shows his beliefs at interesting moments like when he says in ep 5, regarding what happened between rust and his girl, "what always happens between men and women, reality".  There is a humbly genius moment in ep 5 then, with this in mind, when Marty tells of that sweet moment at the roller rink with his daughters and wife. They finish a loop and he stays at the edge talking with his wife, "begging" for forgiveness forever, as the girls go for one more round, oblivious. Do you see this? He's trying to get out of his circle, and his wife you get the impression doesn't believe he can do it. Indeed, the modern scenes show him without his ring: he has been ousted from her circle for eternity.

There's more to say on the subject of fathers and daughters. Ep 5 gives us a tease about Marty and his daughter. We can think back to what rust says about his own daughter's death saving him from the sin of being a father. That dying young is the best way to go, before you become aware of and have to relive the hell of reality. Time will tell whether Marty gets to feel that ultimate regret. Those reflections in the locker room pointed out above are worth thinking about, especially as they play out over one of Rust's monologues about "the nightmare you keep waking up into."

Oh and then there's the yellow king.

What a show.
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