Author Topic: The best album I've heard all year....  (Read 9763 times)

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Mesh

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« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2003, 02:17:13 PM »
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Quote from: godardian


A.  Radiohead seems to have regressed to something very pre-punk; in fact, to the very same thing punk was invented to demolish, or at least shame.

B.  And I'm not against sonic experimentation- I love Sonic Youth and Godspeed You Black Emperor and an assortment of other bands who try to stretch the limits of what a pop song can be. Radiohead just doesn't seem to be doing anything on that level of interest.


A. What allegiance you think Radiohead should or do have to the punk aesthetic?  Why do you find Kid A/Amnesiac to be such departures from their previously aesthetic?  They've always made art-rock (save for Pablo Honey, their Brit-grunge debut); the last two albums are brave steps beyond what OK Computer achieved and made them famous for.

B.  Radiohead have done more to expand the notion of what a pop song can be than have any other existing "rock band" I can think of.  I need play you only "Pyramid Song" to illustrate this point.

Mesh

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« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2003, 02:26:45 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
I said (tongue in cheek) that I don't trust them, meaning that a pop song over 3 minutes has more work to do to convince me it's worthwhile. And I certainly don't think Radiohead warrant that much of my time.


Post-OKC Radiohead songs aren't (by and large) all that long.  One song over 6 minutes:

Kid A

  1.       Everything in Its Right Place - 4:11
  2.       Kid A - 4:44
  3.       The National Anthem - 5:51
  4.       How to Disappear Completely - 5:56
    5.       Treefingers - 3:42
  6.       Optimistic (Radiohead) - 5:16
  7.       In Limbo - 3:31
  8.       Idioteque - 5:09
  9.       Morning Bell - 4:35
    10.       Motion Picture Soundtrack - 7:01

Amnesiac

    1.       Packt Like Sardines in a Crushd Tin Box (Radiohead) - 4:00
    2.       Pyramid Song (Radiohead) - 4:48
    3.       Pull/Pulk Revolving Doors (Radiohead) - 4:07
    4.       You and Whose Army? (Radiohead) - 3:11
    5.       I Might Be Wrong (Radiohead) - 4:53
    6.       Knives Out (Radiohead) - 4:14
    7.       Morning Bell/Amnesiac (Radiohead) - 3:14
    8.       Dollars & Cents (Radiohead) - 4:51
    9.       Hunting Bears (Radiohead) - 2:01
    10.       Like Spinning Plates (Radiohead) - 3:57
    11.       Life in a Glass House (Radiohead) - 4:34

Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2003, 10:34:58 PM »
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The Beatles are very overrated


Anti-Moore, anti-Beatles, anti-Radiohead.... are you trying to get on my bad side?  :roll:
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godardian

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« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2003, 10:12:43 AM »
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Quote from: Mesh


Post-OKC Radiohead songs aren't (by and large) all that long.  One song over 6 minutes:



...but they seem so much longer when I listen to them...
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

godardian

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« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2003, 11:09:36 AM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: godardian
The Beatles are very overrated


Anti-Moore, anti-Beatles, anti-Radiohead.... are you trying to get on my bad side?  :roll:


Of course not! You know, in each of those cases, you could say my disappointment is the cause of my frustration.

-This culture sorely needs someone like Moore. I just wish it were someone a lot more impressive and less of a turn-off than Moore. I don't like to say "He's better than nothing," because that sounds more insulting than anything I've said, really, but that's the way I feel about him. If I didn't see the potential need he could be filling, the obvious craving for a liberal voice, and how he seems (to me) to be wasting it, I wouldn't be so derisive of what I see as his failings.

-I really liked The Bends, as I said above. I liked parts of OK Computer. I thought "Exit Music (For a Film)" was ever so much better than the film they used it in. They then became, to my ears, the aural equivalent of "psychedelic space-age" screensavers. If I could just ignore everything but "How to Disappear Completely" and "Idioteque," it might be all right.

I once thought of Radiohead as very much in a thick, rich vein of sweetly brilliant mid-nineties music I now feel very nostalgic for. I never thought they were as great as my top tier of Suede, Pulp, Elastica, Gene, or PJ Harvey (who really introduced Radiohead to their future clamoring fans when they opened for her on the Rid of Me tour), but The Bends put them on about the same level as Blur, Supergrass, and Sleater-Kinney.

-The Beatles. Some really brilliant stuff. Love the films. Love many of the singles. Don't like how, despite The Kinks, The Velvet Underground, Bowie, Roxy Music, The Pistols, The Buzzcocks, The Clash, The Jam, The Smiths, and Suede developed a body of work at least as enduringly high in quality as anything the Beatles ever did, they always sit at the top of the heap. They were good, they did some very interesting things culturally and musically, but they're not The Number One Pop Group of All Time everyone seems to think they are. Hence the "overrated" tag.

You and I have more in common than you think, I'm sure. Obviously, you rate Magnolia (my top film of '99) and Mulholland Dr. (my top film of 2001). So in those cases, I wholeheartedly agree with you.  [/i]
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Mesh

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« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2003, 02:19:51 PM »
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Quote from: godardian

-I really liked The Bends, as I said above. I liked parts of OK Computer. I thought "Exit Music (For a Film)" was ever so much better than the film they used it in. They [Radiohead] became, to my ears, the aural equivalent of "psychedelic space-age" screensavers. If I could just ignore everything but "How to Disappear Completely" and "Idioteque," it might be all right.
[/i]


"How to Disappear Completely" - Psychedelic, maybe, but not all that space age.

"Idioteque" - Maybe, just maybe space age, but not all that psychedelic.

Also:  two measly songs are your argument for discounting the entire post-OKC catalog?  C'mon.  If anything, "Treefingers" is the track that's already been done and done better (by the likes of Autechre and Aphex Twin).

Mesh

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« Reply #66 on: May 15, 2003, 02:29:04 PM »
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Quote from: godardian

-The Beatles. Some really brilliant stuff. Love the films. Love many of the singles. Don't like how, despite The Kinks, The Velvet Underground, Bowie, Roxy Music, The Pistols, The Buzzcocks, The Clash, The Jam, The Smiths, and Suede developed a body of work at least as enduringly high in quality as anything the Beatles ever did, they always sit at the top of the heap. They were good, they did some very interesting things culturally and musically, but they're not The Number One Pop Group of All Time everyone seems to think they are. Hence the "overrated" tag.


All the bands you mentioned:

1.  Had/have enduring, high-quality catalogs (except maybe for the Sex Pistols, who did more with one album/group of singles than most of the bands you mention did with their entire careers).

2.  Did every single thing they did in the wake of what The Beatles already had done by 1968 (excluding, of course, The Kinks, the most underappreciated band on your list).

By 1964, The Beatles had changed pop music forever and in several ways.  No other band on your list can make even a stab at that claim (again, excluding The Sex Pistols—and even they were more "right place, right time, right attitude" than they were revolutionary musicians).

"They're not The Number One Pop Group of All Time everyone seems to think they are."  If the Beatles aren't, who is?

godardian

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« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2003, 02:29:46 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: godardian

-I really liked The Bends, as I said above. I liked parts of OK Computer. I thought "Exit Music (For a Film)" was ever so much better than the film they used it in. They [Radiohead] became, to my ears, the aural equivalent of "psychedelic space-age" screensavers. If I could just ignore everything but "How to Disappear Completely" and "Idioteque," it might be all right.
[/i]


"How to Disappear Completely" - Psychedelic, maybe, but not all that space age.

"Idioteque" - Maybe, just maybe space age, but not all that psychedelic.

Also:  two measly songs are your argument for discounting the entire post-OKC catalog?  C'mon.  If anything, "Treefingers" is the track that's already been done and done better (by the likes of Autechre and Aphex Twin).


No, no... those are the two songs I like. I wish I could ignore everything but those two. Because, as you said, they're not that screensaver-like.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Mesh

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« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2003, 02:32:32 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: godardian

-I really liked The Bends, as I said above. I liked parts of OK Computer. I thought "Exit Music (For a Film)" was ever so much better than the film they used it in. They [Radiohead] became, to my ears, the aural equivalent of "psychedelic space-age" screensavers. If I could just ignore everything but "How to Disappear Completely" and "Idioteque," it might be all right.
[/i]


"How to Disappear Completely" - Psychedelic, maybe, but not all that space age.

"Idioteque" - Maybe, just maybe space age, but not all that psychedelic.

Also:  two measly songs are your argument for discounting the entire post-OKC catalog?  C'mon.  If anything, "Treefingers" is the track that's already been done and done better (by the likes of Autechre and Aphex Twin).


No, no... those are the two songs I like. I wish I could ignore everything but those two. Because, as you said, they're not that screensaver-like.


Oh.  Yeah.  That is what you said.  Sorry.

Mesh

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« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2003, 02:36:09 PM »
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By far the most overrated Radiohead album:  The Bends

godardian

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« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2003, 02:45:32 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
If the Beatles aren't, who is?


I like too many bands and am too leery of having to define what exactly "Number One Pop Band of All Time" is. I just don't like how it seems to be so uncontested. I think the Number One of my lifetime is The Smiths. But the Kinks were at least as important. They- along with Spector pop and James Brown- inspired the Velvet Underground much more directly than the Beatles ever did. And V.U. have been at least as influential as the Beatles, and they do get their share of respect, but... The Beatles are SOOOO monolithic, people discuss them SOOOOO unequivocally, and that's why I say they're overrated. Maybe no pop band could ever really deserve the sort of reverence given to the Beatles.

I mean, I adore, unequivocally love David Bowie, but he's done some real shit in his time. And I can accept that. But say that about the Beatles, and you're liable to find your home vandalized.

But then, look at the way people revere Michael Jackson. At least the Beatles were worth many if not all the accolades, but M.J.... he has left an indelible mark on the face of popular music worldwide, and I do not in any way mean that as a compliment. Not all supremely influential beings work in the name of good...[/i]
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

godardian

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« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2003, 02:47:20 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
By far the most overrated Radiohead album:  The Bends


I dunno... unless you really dislike The Bends in a major way. All the polls and "best albums of this particular span of time" seem to specify OK Computer, which would make that the most overrated Radiohead album. Unless, of course, you really, really dislike The Bends that much.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Mesh

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« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2003, 03:54:39 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
But the Kinks were at least as important. They- along with Spector pop and James Brown- inspired the Velvet Underground much more directly than the Beatles ever did. And V.U. have been at least as influential as the Beatles, and they do get their share of respect, but...


Can't say I agree with that.  Ask Brian Wilson who inspired him to make Pet Sounds:  Beatles.  Ask Ozzy Osbourne who he wanted to be in 1964:  Beatles.  Sure, VU are were a hugely influential band, but at least as influential as The Beatles...I just don't think so.  Everything every band has done, it seems you can find some parallel innovation in the work of The Beatles (who did it all in, basically, 6 years).  Every song on Revolver has been covered and released on a major release by another band—EVERY SONG.

Quote from: godardian
I mean, I adore, unequivocally love David Bowie, but he's done some real shit in his time. And I can accept that. But say that about the Beatles, and you're liable to find your home vandalized.


They never released a bad album, an album disliked by a large portion of critics or their own fanbase.  Sure some of their early covers were lackluster and you can quibble with some of Ringo's kids music or George's transcendental pop, but....let's face it, there is no parallel in the Beatles catalog to, say, Bowie's Tonight.

Quote from: godardian
But then, look at the way people revere Michael Jackson. At least the Beatles were worth many if not all the accolades, but M.J.... he has left an indelible mark on the face of popular music worldwide, and I do not in any way mean that as a compliment. Not all supremely influential beings work in the name of good...


Michael Jackson proclaimed himself King of Pop after releasing three multi-platinum albums he didn't even write himself (to a large extent).  He's been struggling to stay culturally relevant for a decade, but succeeded only in making himself as relevant as National Enquirer.  He's a hell of a talent, singular, incomparable, deserves what love he still gets, but far more like Elvis than he is The Beatles.

Mesh

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« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2003, 03:57:43 PM »
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Quote from: godardian

I dunno... unless you really dislike The Bends in a major way. All the polls and "best albums of this particular span of time" seem to specify OK Computer, which would make that the most overrated Radiohead album. Unless, of course, you really, really dislike The Bends that much.


But I'm saying that OKC deserves, by and large, the credit it receives.  I don't think The Bends really does; it makes plenty of lists, especially those issuing forth from the UK music press.  It's still a good album, don't mistake me...I just think it's 4th in line, as far as Radiohead albums go.

sexterossa

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« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2003, 03:02:24 AM »
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Quote from: cbrad4d
they kinda have a radiohead vibe. trashing days is a wicked song. I have that and pilot downloaded on my computer back home, don't have the album yet though. what's the rest of the album like?

radiohead vibe indeed, much more playful tho, user friendly even.. the rest is sorta the same, check out Solitaire, the title track, One with the Freaks, and well the whole thing is ekzellent,., it's the kinda stuff i like to hear when i need to be poked, not pusshed tho, poked. i dunno, the songs are real fresh.

i wasn't expecting anyone else to like em  :shock:


i saw them live. orgasmic.

that was a 2002 album for me though. sorry, in my absence i have become a music elitist. remember that MUSIC thread i always tried to keep alive. i think it was the cause of me having some sort of fit and my subsequent departure.

cat power's you are free is the 2003 album of the year so far.
I dream of birds and sometimes they land and burst into flames. And I dream my teeth are rotting. And when I am awake, I dream of you.

 

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