Author Topic: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)  (Read 5693 times)

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bigperm

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 10:23:09 AM »
+1
I've watched this several times but Merlora Waters singing that song and Master dancing back & forth, with those air-typing finger wiggles, I can't get enough of it.
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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2013, 07:31:48 AM »
0
I've watched this several times but Merlora Waters singing that song and Master dancing back & forth, with those air-typing finger wiggles, I can't get enough of it.

Fucking seductive.


I've seen it twice and needless to say it is wonderful. Not only valued for it's tying up of loose ends, I also love how the film wasn't 'Mastered' or what have you- not sure of the specific term. So you get all those little snap crackle and pops- not sure of the specific term for those either. Let's hope that's not the closest I get to actually seeing this on film.


 I noticed a few things that reminded me of Barry Egan. We've all made the connection with his blue suit to Freddie's navy blues, and also their tendencies for violent outbursts. The WGA  interviewer made a great comparison of the two:

"In terms of Freddie Quell, one thing that struck me about him was, he has cousins elsewhere in your work, you know, like Barry in Punch-Drunk Love.  There’s an aspect to him that’s like, you don’t know if he’s gonna… he’s in his warehouse is he going to bite the head off the guy, he has that same violence bursting up in him, in a very different form in a way. But he’s somebody who has the same challenge"


1. Freddie does the Barry dance ( the one in the grocery store ) when he takes that first swig of hooch in the bathroom. So funny. You could almost make the connection that both of them are dancing over the success of their schemes. Barry's- materializing Frequent Flyer Miles out of pudding purchases, and Freddie- Concocting booze out of household items.

2. Look at the office scene in Arizona after they've dug up 'The Split Sabre.' It very closely resembles the look of Barry's office in the warehouse- the way it's shot through the window with reflections and all.  Like the interviewer says Barry is boiling over with repressed rage in his office, Freddie is seen acting out the kind of fantasy that Barry might have in his head by rehearsing how he would pull his gun on an intruder. ( or maybe he plans to kill Dodd? Maybe seeing the book has made him INSANE!?!?! who knows? )


anyways, these are the first things that stuck out to me and I thought were worth talking about. Not just as 'references' but how PTA is drawing a line between his two characters, and what he could be saying with that. Also, The Master and PDL are his only movies that include an extension of the narrative as a short film on the DVD. How much more related can you get?

another funny thing is when Dodd is posing for a picture at his desk. The way that he's sitting so reminds me of Julianna Moore's awkward position in Dirk's first scene.
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Just Withnail

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2013, 09:35:51 AM »
+1
Barry and Freddie also run similarly.
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Frederico Fellini

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2013, 10:38:33 AM »
+2
Barry and Freddie also run similarly.


They also both deny they have a "crying problem".  (The army doctor calls it a "Crying spell").
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Reelist

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2013, 11:02:22 AM »
+2
lol, you guys.


Barry stores the pudding in his office, correct? The same place where Freddie protects 'The Split Sabre' which is in a box (note both are in cube form.) Within the seemingly mundane pudding holds the fiery potential for travel. On the other hand, Dodd's book has the power to keep people in stasis, just as it keeps Freddie stuck in the office.

Dodd's get rich quick scheme- which Freddie doesn't get a piece of even though he's a co-conspirator ("How much is something like that worth?") is paralleled to Barry's in the future. Barry is Freddie's modern counterpart ( you know who gets a lot of counterparts is that Pat Healy.) Somehow Freddie has discovered not how to travel into the past (back) like dumb Dodd, but the future (beyond) where he recieves the prize he rightfully deserves.


and both films end with the leads being embraced beneath their blonde lovers
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Reelist

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2013, 01:07:47 PM »
0
Barry's tinkering away with the harmonium is represented by Freddie in his experimenting with ingredients for booze. First he whips up a batch on the beach that makes him publicly humiliate himself and pass out, missing his boat, right? Then he makes the torpedo juice that makes him sloppy in his interviews. He steals ingredients in the hospital, which I believe could've influenced him to flee ( Gone To China ). Then it cockblocks him and he loses his job.  He blinds a man on a plantation and loses that job. Whatever potion he brings on the boat with him makes him cause a ruckus, but Dodd is impressed with it- He gets a job and Dodd gives him the oppurtunity to exercise his greatest talent in exchange for his leaving behind the life of 'scoundrel'. It isn't until Dodd requests some for himself that Freddie gets his recipe just right- and he breaks through, making a connection with Dodd, and many consider it the movies first sex scene. Dodd's processing methods are the perfect match for Freddie's juice. You can't have one without the other- if it weren't for the processing session, Freddie would inevitably fly off the hinges in some way. Take Freddie's formula out of the equation and Dodd's techniques are total bullshit because his potion brings you to a sort of primal truth, as is displayed by Dodd's loud animal call when he first tries it, bringing him down to Freddie's level.

I haven't seen Punch Drunk Love in awhile, mark that down as another thing I'm ashamed of. I'm struggling to specify the key moments of Barry's experience with the harmonium. Like he kind of fiddles with it, messes around, gets embarassed about it. I think that Barry conjures Lena up with the instrument  (productive) the same way that Freddie does Dodd with his Booze (unproductive). They're both stumbling over it until they get to a point where it just clicks because of the influence of the blondes. I would really like to assume that Barry finally gets a note or a little melody right when he has 'LOVE' written in blood on his knuckles. Then it all falls into place and he makes the trip to see Lena.

Tell me if any of this makes sense.


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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2013, 02:46:04 PM »
+5
It doesn't. Your first paragraph is just describing the events of the movie, there's no insight there.

The connections between the films are not so simple, he's not just replacing a harmonium with alcohol or with oil. His movies are the same because of the themes, they're becoming more refined. It's like he had one idea back in 1996 and each time he makes a new movie he just zooms further into it. CMBB was microbe levels, the master is even more fundamental.

Notice at no time have I tried to force a connection between objects, I suggest you watch PDL again before you continue guessing blindly. Certainly PDL, CMBB and TM have a lot in common, but he hasn't simply transposed the same story onto a new era, setting, and props (with a few notable exceptions).

Ask yourself what do you hope to uncover by making connections between his films. Is it a puzzle that you solve just for the sake of it? That's approaching Tyler levels of useless reference-spotting.

I'll give you something for free that I've been thinking about: the processing scene, why is it so sexual, why is it so structurally fluid, and at the same time so simple in its arrangement (two guys at a table), why is it the most important scene in the movie, how does it repeat itself in their last encounter?

Answer in the form of a question so you can think about it before I tell you: Seriously how many times can you recall that PTA has set a scene between two parties at a table?

Answer in an incomplete list: the processing scene in the master is the latest incarnation of every "pact" that has ever taken place in his films.
- Sydney and John in short and feature, their introduction to each other over coffee etc forms the pact wherein Sydney mysteriously vows to save John.
- Dirk and Jack's "family" at the diner where he lays down his master plan, they all agree on it, it's the pact that keeps them all together.
- Jim and Claudia's date that she bails on, they lay down the law (THE LAW) that Jim agrees to follow to the bitter end, and so we see him uphold it in the final shot where he visits her and of course saves her.
- Barry and Lena's date, roles reversed since Barry is the one who freaks out and causes them to leave, but not before laying down the pact, to ignore what his sister's say - the scene plays out like a miniature version of the whole film, Barry has to leave Lena to "take care of business" (it's a classy toilet joke) then comes back to take her away, hence the moving truck rolling past them outside.
- CMBB had a shitload of em, basically every single "deal" that Daniel made, from Paul onwards to his last meeting with his son, and he honoured every one of them - the extent to which they permeate CMBB is revealing of how ceaselessly Plainview devoured his environment.
- The Master you can work on by yourself.

It's one of the defining recurring features of PTA that no one ever talks about. And I just gave it to you on a platter, like a schmuck.
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Reelist

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2013, 02:53:04 PM »
+1
Thank You.
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Pubrick

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 05:53:33 AM »
+5
i guess i'm not getting any upvotes cos i sounded like a smug prick.

i really should've stressed that i was only responding to the first paragraph of your last post. there is some good stuff in the other ones, i especially like this:

Barry's- materializing Frequent Flyer Miles out of pudding purchases, and Freddie- Concocting booze out of household items.

that's a great connection and can be carried further. the basic idea is that they are making gold out of shit, they are alchemists. the same can be said of Daniel Plainview whose opportunism is unparalleled. and then we can start to see how his central characters are all self-made men.. Magnolia is tricky, who is the alchemist in the film? i don't think there is one, at least not until the very end, no one has found true success and their decisions in life have taken them nowhere they want to be.

with magnolia i think the film and all the actions of the characters can be described by Quiz Kid Donnie Smith's moment at the traffic lights when he asks himself " what the FUCK am i DOING?" and does a u-turn en route to correct his actions. there's no alchemy in the film by the hands of the characters because they have been placed in unwinnable situations where they can only feed an impersonal inhuman code -- frank mackey's base appeal to animalistic urges, claudia's desire to disappear completely because of what her father did, stanley spector's robotic submission to his father's greed, and jim kurring's unwavering allegiance to the law, etc -- they are basically SLAVES (more unbelievable then that PTA would claim to not know about the biblical plague of frogs and moses' plea to let his people go).. the point is that what they are handed is indeed shit but the gold they make is not for themselves, it does not leave them satisfied.

the question the film poses is that love must be found before any miracle can take place, and i wonder if it's QKDS' actions at that stop light that instigate the series of redemptions. it's like the breaking of a spell. of course his returning of the stolen booty will only bring him back to a neutral state. as i've mentioned elsewhere it's Jim's kindness that lets him have a bit of that sweet love the others are finding. in the same way another excellent turning point in the film occurs when Jim goes against his programmed behaviour and hesitates on the stairs outside Claudia's apartment as he decides to ask her out on a date. she even says it, "is this illegal", and he says kind of, but that's exactly the point of liberation for him.

NOTICE TOO that at this point where he turns against the enslavement his batton slips off its holster down the stairs, the power and status he has built for himself through obedience to the impersonal code of californian law (the gold he has created out of the shit he has been given) is slipping away from him already. and he must go through a trial, when he loses his gun for real, his humiliation and ostracism from the code he abandoned causes him to appeal to THE OTHER enslavement he subscribes to, religion. he prays to god and says he'll do anything if he'll help him find his gun, but there is no god in this film. all the gold he thought he had created turns to shit when illuminated by true love in the form of Claudia.

so at the end of magnolia, with the slate wiped clean, corrected in a rain of shit by some higher power (complex weather systems), the first and only successful alchemical moment i think takes place when Jim visits Claudia. he's taken what he's given, a lemon, and he makes lemonade.
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Neil

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 11:42:32 AM »
+1
I'm just happy the lesson was free. how lucky. But, at least you know when you sound like a smug prick, which is a quality that is rarely found in those who have the ability to act like a smug prick.

But, alas, we've wandered from the propper path. Which deleted/alternate scenes from the master were we discussing again?

one silly thing i thought of while driving today was that, if the bathroom sequence of Freddie concocting his drink had been left in the film, both Barry and Freddie would've had their celebratory dance moments.

The pudding allows Lena and Barry to meet up in Hawaii at the end and the drink brings Freddie and Master together, but with a much different outcome. Maybe what we've got with the master is a refined statement about the nature of relationships, but anyhow, I'm just reaching in the dark here trying to compliment what Reelist and P were saying about turning their, "shit into gold."

Maybe that's more of a quirky delight mixed with an alternate scene.
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socketlevel

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2013, 12:18:29 PM »
+3
i guess i'm not getting any upvotes cos i sounded like a smug prick.

dude, that's why you get upvotes. we're all a bunch of smug pricks. you've just been deemed alpha smug prick.
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Reelist

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Re: A Guide To THE MASTER's Deleted Scenes & Alternate Takes (SPOILERS)
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2013, 08:06:17 PM »
0
Great, I gotta watch Magnolia again now ( was planning to tonight anyway )

we've wandered from the propper path. Which deleted/alternate scenes from the master were we discussing again?

this kind of flew off the rails when I made the association between Barry's Harmonium and Freddie's Booze. I knew I was reaching (high). I was just throwing it out there to see if anyone else made the connection. I still see a thread there.

I'm just reaching in the dark here trying to compliment what Reelist and P were saying about turning their, "shit into gold."

Thanks! P, I propose this discussion be carried on further in This Thread

it's your call.
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