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I Heard You Paint Houses/ The Irishman

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eward

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Reply #90 on: November 04, 2019, 12:59:29 PM
What's your The Irishman/I've Heard You Paint Houses take? I need some dissent.

From what I could tell in the shoutbox, his reaction was overall mixed, while erring on the side of positive. But Wilberfan shall speak for himself when he feels ready!
If I could move the night I would
And I would turn the world around if I could
There's nothing wrong with loving something you can't hold in your hand
You're sitting on the edge of the bed, smoking and shaking your head
Well there's nothing wrong with loving things that cannot even stand
Well there goes your moony man
With his suitcase in his hand
Every road is lined with animals
That rise from their blood and walk
Well the moon won't get a wink of sleep
If I stay all night and talk


wilberfan

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Reply #91 on: November 04, 2019, 01:08:48 PM
I need some dissent.

Congratulations.  You actually made me LOL.

It's a good film.  Made by a Master Craftsman.  With wonderful performances.  The CGI didn't bother me a whit.  I liked it.

But somewhere around the 2.5 hr mark, when I found that I wasn't completely engrossed for the moment, I found myself searching for a metaphor for what was...missing?....for me?  The image that came to me was of Michaelangelo revealing his 3rd or 4th version of his statue of David.  (To extend the metaphor, maybe this one was David as an older man.)  Beautifully done, very moving...but that sense of "we've seen this before, Mike...".  And while on some level appreciative of this new work, on another level kind of wanting to be dazzled by something...different.  {Not a spoiler, but I must confess I winced when the films opening steadicam shot had a do-wop song going on the soundtrack. "Oh, no....". }

In fact, that's why the last 30 minutes really perked me up.  That was the part of the film that was different.  At least felt new and different to me.

The 3.5 hour run time blazed by for many, but not necessarily for me.  I checked my watch at least twice.  ("Wow.  Really?  Another hour-and-a-half?  Yikes.")  I also amused myself by trying to come up with a DVT-themed tweet.  (You youngsters might have to look up DVT...)

I will certainly watch it again, at home, which I think (hope) will deepen my appreciation for the film--but this initial viewing, while enjoyable, didn't hit as hard as I was hoping it would.  (Those pesky expectations again.)
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WorldForgot

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Reply #92 on: November 04, 2019, 03:24:31 PM
The "family" elements work better for me here than they do in Raging Bull or Goodfellas, one particular "Peggy" motif kept me in suspense for its entirety. Hadn't expected so much of this film's runtime to include both Pesci and Pacino. In a sense, it carries as much textual weight as Godfather Part I and II, or Soderbergh's Che, just wrapped up in one go-round.

Must have checked my watch around the same scenes Wilberfan did, first time I went out to concessions I found we still had an hour and a half to go -- but that's to the film's benefit. It doesn't waste a scene.


jenkins

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Reply #93 on: November 05, 2019, 03:51:21 AM
the family elements in raging bull tiiiiiight, one of the tightest elements in a movie without a lot of elements. literally the pinnacle of the movie

i havenít seen goodfellas recently enough to remember if same or etc. this irishman movie can be okay at best for me really. ill be seeing it, im excited


jenkins

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Reply #94 on: November 06, 2019, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: wilderban
In fact, that's why the last 30 minutes really perked me up.  That was the part of the film that was different.  At least felt new and different to me.

that's cool yeah he kept going

Quote from: WorldForgot
textual weight

hundred percent

it's the widest view of the human condition he's yet depicted. i think it's most like Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore in terms of its narrative pitch, and it's the least elegant depiction of gangsterism he's captured by far. it's v contemporary in terms of its wide perspective gazing beyond the glamor. and Scorsese is aged and wiser, and all the actors are killing it

the silence of the daughter. buying a green casket from somebody who doesn't give a fuck about your death. dying forgotten

they really brought it, great job everybody


jenkins

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Reply #95 on: November 08, 2019, 11:54:04 PM
Quote
Life's a battle that scars us all, victor and vanquished alike.

that's a line from The Sot-Weed Factor that leads into a specific spoilerific discussion about this movie, Jojo Rabbit, and This Must Be The Place

Spoiler: ShowHide
Frank Sheeran (De Niro) experiences the scars of life through the flow of time and his daughter's reaction to him. in this instance and in other Scorsese movies the flow of time takes with it culturally significant and personally meaningful materials. both the culture and the meaning is being lost in the river of time. Sheeran being unable to establish a relationship of love with his daughter is spurred on not by the passage of time but by history, and actions of his past. in one way he wishes the past was alive, and in other way the past is alive in his daughter who does not forget his worst side

Jojo Rabbit is a satirical fairytale that offers a degree of nazi sympathy to Captain Klenzendorf (Rockwell) which bothers me. i do not know if it was a thematic intention (as in Sorrentino's This Must Be The Place) but the direction here points to the quote that began this post. and that is still nazi sympathy, with the message to not-hate anybody, including people in a terrible position they wish not for themselves. did Frank Sheeran not wish to be in the terrible position he was? does the audience come to despise him the way his daughter did? these are the complexities within a full perspective of who a person was and why


samsong

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Reply #96 on: November 13, 2019, 10:52:37 PM
scorseseís the man who shot liberty valance.  stone-cold masterpiece, especially impressive coming off the heels of silence, a film thatís only risen in my esteem with each rewatch and further consideration. itís a really great film, and up until now the very best of his recent output.  canít wait to watch it over and over again.  there isnít a filmmaker alive who paces a film better than marty.


ForTheHungryBoy

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Reply #97 on: November 14, 2019, 04:15:49 PM
Loved this movie, and happy I mentally was prepared for the long run time before going in

Such a beautiful (and bleak) culmination of that certain gangster lifestyle.... The length made it feel almost as though you lived this long slug of a life, where you just sorrowfully fade into black full of regret

Certain edits like Pesci and De Niro talking, then cuts right to the bed full of guns... Classic Scorsese


jenkins

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Reply #98 on: November 14, 2019, 04:46:53 PM
Such a beautiful (and bleak) culmination of that certain gangster lifestyle.... The length made it feel almost as though you lived this long slug of a life, where you just sorrowfully fade into black full of regret

i think you've expressed this in a poignant manner reflective of the movie's appreciable qualities, therefore i appreciate your expression, and it's only that final part which i would like to build a conversation upon in order to further explore a certain dynamic within the movie

Spoiler: ShowHide
when Frank Sheeran speaks with the priest about his gangster history was it not from the priest's own question it may not have been i could be remembering incorrectly, but when that topic is being discussed with the priest Frank's perspective is one detached from the emotional realities of his killings. he says he didn't know the families but once, referring of course to Hoffa. and this is a crucial point here: do you think he regrets, his choices as a person, or the realities of his job? i don't know much about veterans because i'm not one but i know that Frank killed some people in WWII, and is thus acquainted with this perspective. i don't think Scorsese is so basic that he would have that scene unless it could evoke what cannot be seen.

Frank is most def experiencing the fading meaning of a cultural past, an established topic within Scorsese's filmography. and Frank's is a long slug of a gangster's life. but i'm not sure if he experiences regret so much a lack of control over his lack of a relationship with his daughter, which makes him a failure of a father. are his failures as a father more significant than his being a killer? to Frank's own emotional self, yes. so with Hoffa he misses a friend who died on the job


jviness02

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Reply #99 on: November 16, 2019, 05:04:17 PM
Yo this was great! Nothing beats his holy trinity(Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, GoodFellas) but this might be his fourth best film.  Pesci was the standout to me. He was incredible.


Alexandro

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Reply #100 on: November 17, 2019, 10:35:33 AM
Such a beautiful (and bleak) culmination of that certain gangster lifestyle.... The length made it feel almost as though you lived this long slug of a life, where you just sorrowfully fade into black full of regret

i think you've expressed this in a poignant manner reflective of the movie's appreciable qualities, therefore i appreciate your expression, and it's only that final part which i would like to build a conversation upon in order to further explore a certain dynamic within the movie

Spoiler: ShowHide
when Frank Sheeran speaks with the priest about his gangster history was it not from the priest's own question it may not have been i could be remembering incorrectly, but when that topic is being discussed with the priest Frank's perspective is one detached from the emotional realities of his killings. he says he didn't know the families but once, referring of course to Hoffa. and this is a crucial point here: do you think he regrets, his choices as a person, or the realities of his job? i don't know much about veterans because i'm not one but i know that Frank killed some people in WWII, and is thus acquainted with this perspective. i don't think Scorsese is so basic that he would have that scene unless it could evoke what cannot be seen.

Frank is most def experiencing the fading meaning of a cultural past, an established topic within Scorsese's filmography. and Frank's is a long slug of a gangster's life. but i'm not sure if he experiences regret so much a lack of control over his lack of a relationship with his daughter, which makes him a failure of a father. are his failures as a father more significant than his being a killer? to Frank's own emotional self, yes. so with Hoffa he misses a friend who died on the job


Spoiler: ShowHide
 I agree he understands his failure as a father but that's as far as he can go into that kind of introspective  thinking. He's not, or at least that how I interpret it, equipped emotionally to grasp the full dimension of what's happening to him. All possible regret expresses itself and barely comes out in his longing for a reencounter with his daughter, but he is unable to let it all out. If it did, it would probably destroy him emotionally. I think the fact that in the end he doesn't get it, and we see his situation more clearly than he does is what makes the ending so devastating and poignant.


All in all, the film is a masterpiece... by far the fastest 200 plus minutes film I've ever seen (and  without being paced with flashy velocity at all). Can't wait to watch it over and over.


Drenk

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Reply #101 on: November 27, 2019, 10:45:21 PM
He's a mumbling sociopath with low IQ. The family stuff is weird: doesn't work at all. When it dwelves into the utter weirdness of his robotic life, especially in the climatic sequence of the movie, I find it interesting, moody, cinematic. The rest? Awkward, dťja vu, stiff and kind of dumb.

But there's a full hour that I really like:

Spoiler: ShowHide
From the meeting with Tony to the murder of Hoffa. The denial of Frank, the slow travel, the fact that, ultimately, the act itself is very fast: great stuff.


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jenkins

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Reply #102 on: November 27, 2019, 11:45:26 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
Hoffa and Frank in hotel rooms

Hoffa hating people being late. that meeting they have in Florida. people dressed differently. the side guys being like "let's just calm down." and Hoffa and that guy he had a beef with in prison are like "yeah all i'm doing is being strong."

how different of a man Hoffa is from when we meet him to when he waits 40 minutes

when Frank beats the shit out of the grocery guy who pushed his daughter is that when she began to lack respect for him, was that the same daughter who became quiet, i think so right

other things i'm forgetting

these are parallel threads developing, nuanced human stuff that is so Scorsese


i still think Raging Bull has more pound-for-pound cinema, Taxi Driver is a gold star in the field of depressing people so i actually have to appreciate that really, Last Temptation and Silence are literally spiritual, and Hugo is his most dream filled, but i'm sticking with this being my favorite out of his gangster movies

and it casts a wider portrait of the human condition than Once Upon A Time


Drenk

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Reply #103 on: November 28, 2019, 12:02:26 AM
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The daughter scene at the beginning was...*sighs*. It's supposed to explain everything, to have ripples, but it just feels fake to me. "All right: they're scared of Pa, see? Let's move on." And it's the kind of scene that contains the scene that has to happen three hours later, so when the follow up does happen...well, you knew...And I don't care. Where's the life?
It would have been more interesting if the movie had the courage to admit that this dude doesn't give a shit about his family.


I forgot to write here that, yes, Pacino is fantastic and the best parts of the movie are centered around his character. The Wolf of Wall Street doesn't have a Pacino.
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jenkins

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Reply #104 on: November 28, 2019, 12:43:21 AM
Spoiler: ShowHide
way more tragic that he does care and she closes him off and what about when he visits with his crutches, brutal!

i think that to him itís the greatest loss that came from his job