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The Leftovers

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polkablues

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Reply #135 on: June 06, 2017, 01:47:41 PM
Not that it means anything definitive, but the director of the episode thinks Nora believes her own story.

From a Screencrush interview:
Quote
Mimi Leder: Did you believe [Nora] at the end? What did you think? Did you think it was real?

Interviewer: Iíve come to the conclusion that I believe that she believes it, and thatís kind of enough. I donít think I need to know if her story is real or not.

Mimi Leder: I couldnít agree with you more. I mean everyone has different opinions about it and thatís really interesting, but yeah, that is how I see it very much too. Itís really interesting when people say she really went there in this contraption, which is believable as well. But itís interesting what you will believe in, what each and every one of us wants to believe to get through the day, to offer ourselves some sort of peace, some connection to the here and now. So I found this story very satisfying, and a real left turn in filmmaking in terms of finale. Itís very different than the show and itís its own little movie. It was really fun to do, and emotional. Itís like a little poem.

The way she phrases it, to me, looks like she believes Nora believes her own story, but that it isn't what really happened.What with the barely justified random insanity plaguing Kevin, I wouldn't be surprised if she had built an illusion that she believed.


I'm definitely with her in the sense that it really feels like Carrie Coon played the scene as though she believed the story. I think that's why I landed so strongly on that side of the aisle on my initial viewing; the performance was so convincing I failed to notice all the clues to the contrary.
That's some catch, that Catch-22.


Cory Everett

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Reply #136 on: June 06, 2017, 02:59:58 PM
Overall: I loved the series and felt satisfied by the finale even if it didn't hook me emotionally as much as I wanted.

I too think she was making it up. It's a perfect construction of a way for Lindelof to "have his cake and eat it too" regarding answering the one question he said the show would never answer -- where people went after the Departure -- to silence any potential trolls telling him he never said where they went. But for the themes of the show, it makes so much more sense for her to be making up the story, Kevin believes her because he wants to believe in something/someone, and it doesn't matter that it's not true if it helps her cope. If it's true, there really isn't much ambiguity, it just straight out answers all the questions and seems too tidy. The fact that we get flashes of Nora's kids and other things and when she's telling the story we see flashes to her getting into the machine, but we never see a glimpse of her going through seems to make sense that it didn't really happen. Of course this would be a cinematic thing to shoot, her walking around a vacant Mapleton, tying the beginning and end of the series together, but they don't do it because it's a lie.

Also interesting to note in interviews Lindelof keeps saying that if you know something isn't true but someone else tells the story and they believe it, does that make it true? Which also seems to support the notion that Lindelof believes its a lie but Mimi and Carrie believe it's true (none of those 3 ever discussed if it was true or a lie, each made up their own version that worked for them), so does that make it more true? The answer is: there is no answer. But I believe Lindelof believes it's not true, whether that makes it more definitive than Carrie or Mimi's version is up for debate.

Even the last shot of all the birds flying back to the roof is a great wink to the audience because WE keep wanting to believe in something greater, higher, more romantic so when it seems like these birds are really going to deliver these love notes into the world instead of coming back to Nora's, we want to believe that. But when they just return home, it's like, but of course they do. But for that moment they didn't, you believed. That's in our nature.

I will miss this show. And thrilled to see Lindelof getting his reputation back and can't wait to see what he does next.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.


polkablues

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Reply #137 on: June 06, 2017, 04:05:17 PM
From the long Vulture article posted upthread, it's pretty clear that Lindelof and the writers room settled on her having made the story up, though his ultimate goal was for the audience to come down 50/50 on either side of the question. To me, the important thing was the emotional resolution. Not knowing for sure if it was true, a lie, or something in between is a fun game, but not particularly important in the grand scheme of things.
That's some catch, that Catch-22.


Drenk

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Reply #138 on: June 06, 2017, 06:08:57 PM
Nora got her International Ghost.

I loved the finale. I don't care if her story is true. But I definitely think it felt real to her.

The mood was eerie, the moments with Kevin/Nora intense...it was simple but it had scope. I couldn't be happier.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #139 on: June 07, 2017, 01:57:39 PM
So there's this.


"Hunger is the purest sin"


Drenk

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Reply #140 on: June 07, 2017, 05:32:22 PM
I couldn't stop about Freddy Quell saying "How did you find me?" after The Master so I probably won't stop thinking about all the ways Carrie Coon says "How did you find me?" in The Book of Nora.
I'm so many people.


WorldForgot

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Reply #141 on: July 08, 2017, 02:19:01 PM
SPOILERS
She 100% never woke up, by the way. And I sort of think it does matter. Although, it's true, that's not the most important truth.

hehe

(just got to szn 3... never thought LOST could be replicated, but, here is the glory of Kevin & Nora!)


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #142 on: July 08, 2017, 02:21:56 PM
You got me.  :(

It's funny, after the reveal I remembered I said that, then I just hoped no one would remember.

I think my GoT predictions are slightly better.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


WorldForgot

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Reply #143 on: July 08, 2017, 05:00:51 PM
You got me.  :(

It's funny, after the reveal I remembered I said that, then I just hoped no one would remember.

I think my GoT predictions are slightly better.

Winter is here!

I got to the site via the Inland Empire essay that cites you, read a bunch of the Lynch threads and had to join. Looking forward to catching up with the backlog of posts.


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #144 on: August 02, 2019, 06:51:10 PM
Rewatching this. It's very interesting to have a fresh perspective on Season 1, post-series.

Episodes 1 and 2 are kind of roughóa difficult introduction to the show for sure. I mean, they're not terrible episodes of television... they just haven't yet found what makes The Leftovers special.

The first time the show really finds that spark is in Episode 3 (Matt's tribulation).

This continues into Episode 4 Ė "B.J. and the A.C." which is a lot better than I remember. There's tons of foreshadowing and fun mirroring. The nativity baby being stolen and replaced by something different mirrors what will happen with the photographs and the mannequins, both of which are also in this episode. Bonus: Laurie is more sympathetic on rewatch, thank God.

Looking at upcoming episodes, I think the show continues this momentum, and the first two might be the only bummer episodes of the whole series.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Shughes

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Reply #145 on: August 02, 2019, 08:10:55 PM
I rewatched recently too. I found Laurie to be more sympathetic also. And the whole thing was a more emotional experience watching it all again in the context of knowing where things are going. For me it's one of the most consistent tv shows and a firm favourite - I kind of wish they could run and run but they certainly ended on a high!

Spoilers (kind of):

I'm still amazed at the bravery of the storytelling with the period openings to seasons 2 and 3. The first time I watched I found them confusing and intriguing and eventually, when the context is revealed (the mirroring of themes etc), it just blew me away.


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #146 on: August 07, 2019, 11:56:17 PM
Finished Season 1. Funny thing, I found myself not as moved as I remembered being. Ep 9 - The Garveys At Their Best was, in particular, not as amazing as I rememberedóthe surprises just don't land the same way when you're spoiled. (Side note: people who say surprises in fiction don't matter are psychopaths.) I was more fascinated than emotionally moved.

And then... the finale. It hit me like a truck. This episode is unbelievable, far and away the best of the season. Lindelof is such a master of payoffs. And good lord the payoffs are generousóand hard-earned. I was moved to tears throughout the last third. Simply everything in this episode is working on a whole new level. Which makes it a fitting transition to Season 2.
"Hunger is the purest sin"