XIXAX Film Forum

Creative Corner => Filmmakers' Workshop => Topic started by: finlayr on April 16, 2003, 08:09:50 PM

Title: Film School
Post by: finlayr on April 16, 2003, 08:09:50 PM
Hey everyone.  Just wanted to see what everyone here thought of film school.  I personally don't believe in it unless you're going just for the experience and to take part in the calloborative processes and to meet people who share the same interests.  I believe that you don't need to waste money and time on a two year (over here in Ireland) or a four year (in the States I think) course just to get a piece of paper that CAN'T PROVE THAT YOU CAN MAKE GOOD MOVIES.  I think...I KNOW that it's PASSION, DETERMINATION, LOVE, TALENT and a million other things...CONTACTS (no matter how small)...but really DAMN GOOD SCRIPTS or FILMS that will be what gets you work in the film industry.

What DO YOU THINK????????  Do you think FILM SCHOOL is necessary?  In what ways does it help/not help?

Oh, by the way, I bumped into Neil Jordan last night on Dame Street.  such a great guy and we bullshitted for 10 minutes about The Ring.  I forget why...maybe because I brought up horror films....
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: mindfuck on April 16, 2003, 08:12:26 PM
No I DON'T THINK that FILM SCHOOL is the answer for getting into THE INDUSTRY, but honestly IT CAN'T HURT if you've got THE CASH and are planning on going TO COLLEGE anyway.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: finlayr on April 16, 2003, 08:20:05 PM
okay THANKS for giving YOUR opinion on THAT.  sarcastic crows here, are WE?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Duck Sauce on April 16, 2003, 09:28:49 PM
I dont think it is at all necesary but I bet it doesnt hurt and could give experience to those who arent born film gods. I also think its interesting to see what the people who graduated from USC, UCLA and NYU film school go on to do.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: mindfuck on April 16, 2003, 10:55:04 PM
Quote from: Duck Sauce
I dont think it is at all necesary but I bet it doesnt hurt and could give experience to those who arent born film gods. I also think its interesting to see what the people who graduated from USC, UCLA and NYU film school go on to do.


You know all those shitty Hollywood movies released every year that you never look at twice? Yeah, those.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: The Silver Bullet on April 16, 2003, 11:22:20 PM
For every self taught filmmaking dynamo there are thousands of self taught filmmaking disasters. People hear about Paul Thomas Anderson, or Quentin Tarantino, or Kevin Smith, and say, "Well, they did it." The fact of the matter is that those guys are but three people, you know? The thing that people have to realise is that, while you may always hear about the self taught filmmakers that made good, you never hear about the thousands that never get anywhere. My point is that in saying, "Film school is for chumps" you'd better hope you're as good as the select few uneducated filmmakers that make it. And remember; the chances are, you're not.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: mindfuck on April 16, 2003, 11:24:10 PM
Quote from: The Silver Bullet
My point is that in saying, "Film school is for chumps" you'd better hope you're as good as the select few uneducated filmmakers that make it. And remember; the chances are, you're not.


Well put. Couldn't say it any better myself.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: finlayr on April 17, 2003, 12:23:06 PM
"Chances are..I'm not a great filmmaker?"

Says who?  Why?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: finlayr on April 17, 2003, 12:24:52 PM
The great Gaspar Noe (I Stand Alone & Irreversible) is one of the greatest filmmakers (and a great artist) out there.  He's not as a popular as Tarantino and PTA --so what?  IF NOBODY know you--it doesn't matter.  One you're making movies and showing them to people--that's all that matters.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: BrainSushi on April 17, 2003, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: finlayr
The great Gaspar Noe (I Stand Alone & Irreversible) is one of the greatest filmmakers (and a great artist) out there.  He's not as a popular as Tarantino and PTA --so what?  IF NOBODY know you--it doesn't matter.  One you're making movies and showing them to people--that's all that matters.


I agree there. I don't plan on going to film school, and if I don't make $37 million dollar movie with Tom Cruise, or get nominated for an Oscar, who gives a flying fuck? I just wanna make a movie, and I just wanna show it to some people.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: mindfuck on April 17, 2003, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: BrainSushi

I agree there. I don't plan on going to film school, and if I don't make $37 million dollar movie with Tom Cruise, or get nominated for an Oscar, who gives a flying fuck? I just wanna make a movie, and I just wanna show it to some people.


This is all well and good, but do you plan on trying to support yourself with your filmmaking? It's one thing to just want to make a film in your spare time, but if you plan on making a living doing it, you need to be able to keep steady work. This is where film school comes in for a lot of people. It's much easier to get work when you have a degree, and many people would like to work towards that great movie idea of theirs rather than trying to fit it in while working at an unrelated "real job". Just a thought.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: finlayr on April 17, 2003, 03:47:51 PM
It was a stupid to start talking about anyway. Film School's good for some--not for others.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: BrainSushi on April 17, 2003, 04:17:44 PM
Quote from: BrainSushi
Quote from: finlayr
The great Gaspar Noe (I Stand Alone & Irreversible) is one of the greatest filmmakers (and a great artist) out there.  He's not as a popular as Tarantino and PTA --so what?  IF NOBODY know you--it doesn't matter.  One you're making movies and showing them to people--that's all that matters.


I agree there. I don't plan on going to film school, and if I don't make $37 million dollar movie with Tom Cruise, or get nominated for an Oscar, who gives a flying fuck? I just wanna make a movie, and I just wanna show it to some people.


Touche. Oh well, I'm only fifteen, so I still have some time to decide on this matter. Still, at the time being, film school is quite unappealing to me.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: finlayr on April 17, 2003, 04:24:00 PM
BrainSushi, it's a good thing you don't have sushi for brains.  I'm only 3 years older than you and I might consider doing a Film Production course some time down the road--I suppose for the same reasons you or anyone else would.  I know someone who knows someone who is going to study Film at DCU, it's costs thousands and is for four years.  She doesn't even know who Tarantino is.  It's disgusting.  At least these people don't want to be filmmakers--because they wouldn't know how to make a film..  Learn on your own and get close to the system.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: ReelHotGames on April 17, 2003, 06:58:30 PM
Quote from: finlayr
It was a stupid to start talking about anyway. Film School's good for some--not for others.


Film school can't hurt anyone. You get to use alot of equipment, you get to learn to work with others, and you get some sense knocked into you if your lucky.

Film school won't make you an artist, but it can teach you technical stuff you won't know from osmosis. If you can go, then GO! Don't even think about it, plus it sets up a network of friends.

My college chums range from an actor who is on Showtime's Soul Food, the gusy who produce Amanda Hades (an online web series at www.amandahades.com), an exec over at LivePlanet (Damon & Affleck's) and more...

All of whom are little "ins" in the industry. I am writing a pilot for the actor on Soul Food as we speak.

So film school is more than just becoming a "filmmaker". You can do that by picking up a video camera.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Jon on April 17, 2003, 08:22:27 PM
Quote from: finlayr
BrainSushi, it's a good thing you don't have sushi for brains.  I'm only 3 years older than you and I might consider doing a Film Production course some time down the road--I suppose for the same reasons you or anyone else would.  I know someone who knows someone who is going to study Film at DCU, it's costs thousands and is for four years.  She doesn't even know who Tarantino is.  It's disgusting.  At least these people don't want to be filmmakers--because they wouldn't know how to make a film..  Learn on your own and get close to the system.


Actually, I'd love to see the film she made.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: polkablues on April 18, 2003, 03:23:42 PM
Alessandro's right.  Technical experience and making connections are the biggest positives of film school.  It's nice knowing that when I finally make the big move to LA, I'll have a few couches to crash on, and a few doors to get my foot in.

Ultimately, the only way to become a good filmmaker is to make films, whether in school or not, and keep making them.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Ordet on February 26, 2004, 05:11:05 PM
Ok here’s a good one. Hope it hasn’t been discussed yet.

Film School.

How important is it?
Is it really important?
If you’ve had any, what’s you’re personal experience?
From the accomplished filmmakers who attended film school and the ones who didn’t. What differences do you notice between them?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Recce on February 26, 2004, 10:47:29 PM
Well, I don't really attend 'film school'. I'm in Communication studies, which is everything media related, including film and video, etc. I know some people say that school is a waste of time in our field. If you're really passionate about it, you can get a shit job as a PA and work your way up. And its true. But I've seen my confidence in my abilities grow considerably since I started University. Whenever someone asked me to shoot something int he past, I would panic for days, terrified that I would fuck it up. Now, you hand me a camera and I feel right at home. I guess it depends on what kind of person you are. You could learn everything you would in school off the internet. But I rather do it this way. Plus, I've learned more during screenings and critiques of our projects in class then in any shoot I've ever been on. It can be rough, but there's nothing like constructive criticism. But, once again, you can jsut show it to random people and get that there, I guess.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Pastor Parsley on February 27, 2004, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: Recce
I guess it depends on what kind of person you are.


I would agree.  Some need what school has to offer, some don't.  It's impossible to make blanket statements like "film school is a waste of time" or "film school is a necessity".  It just depends on you.  How do you learn, how motivated are you.  One definite plus with school is that it frees up your time somewhat, to spend on your studies.  Otherwise you have to work more to support yourself and then pursue your hobby with what's left, which isn't much.  But if you really want it, you'll make it work either way.  Good luck  :-D .
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: phil marlowe on February 27, 2004, 10:40:56 AM
in denmark it's so hard to get in you couldn't imagine....
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: SoNowThen on February 27, 2004, 10:53:12 AM
In Canada, all you need is to cover the entry fee.

We had such useful classes as Cable Wrapping, and Watching Bad Short Films From Last Year. And then there's the wonderful Class Shoot, where the students basically stand around on a pretend set and watch the teachers argue as they do their respective jobs badly, to a pre-written "script" that you wouldn't wipe your ass with, being performed by a bunch of acting school near-dropouts that were told that a director is not allowed to give them line readings.

Little did we know that was an exact preparation for our first jobs on tv/commercial non-union sets after graduation...


**

Come to the Vancouver Grip School!
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: cowboykurtis on February 27, 2004, 10:53:41 AM
i need to be taught how to watch a movie -- youre supposed to hold you head a certian way -- something about visual perception vs. mental reception. i think i need to attend.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: cowboykurtis on February 27, 2004, 10:55:54 AM
i need to be taught how to watch a movie -- youre supposed to hold you head a certian way -- something about visual perception vs. mental reception. i think i need to attend.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: phil marlowe on February 27, 2004, 10:58:24 AM
Quote from: SoNowThen
In Canada, all you need is to cover the entry fee.

and what is the entry fee?

here it's free but you have to send in shorts to impress them and if your REALLY AWESOME you might have a chance of an interview. i can't remember the exact number but i tell you it's sick...they take so few every year
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: SoNowThen on February 27, 2004, 11:01:14 AM
$20 000

for the one year "intensive" course


It's really like a trade school. They need to keep pumping peons out to fill the PA gaps for all the city's US tv show run-offs...
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: phil marlowe on February 27, 2004, 11:10:06 AM
that's alot of money dude, you talk like it wasn't worth it

was it?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: SoNowThen on February 27, 2004, 11:40:31 AM
It's that saying, six to one, and half a dozen to the other. It was stupid, and expensive, and 95% of the teachers were assholes or incompetents or both, and a lot of the processes got drove into me and took years to unlearn, and we never really got down to a love of film, and no younger member of the class really got a chance, and no good movies came out of it.

However

It prepared us for the absolute worst of the business, fighting for every little thing, climatizing us to doing every job and having high stress and dealing with idiots. And I met some of my best friends there, that I will work with and hang out with for the rest of my life, and I have a lot of funny memories. So how can you say you'd rather not have, y'know, and saved the money and made your own movie instead. I dunno...


btw, Phil, seems like your film school has a pretty good set-up, like they care. Exclusive and all that.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Ordet on February 27, 2004, 01:54:58 PM
Yeah I’ve heard how hard it is to get into film school in Denmark.

Is it the National Film School?

I think that when you can brag about Lars Von Trier being one of your graduates you set the standards pretty high.

Do you notice any difference between directors who attended film school and the self taught ones?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: SoNowThen on February 27, 2004, 02:09:29 PM
I dunno why I say this, and maybe it's just because I knew before the fact, but the NYU directors seem to share something -- not sure exactly what, but it's this undefinable thing...

anybody else find that?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: rustinglass on February 27, 2004, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: phil marlowe
in denmark it's so hard to get in you couldn't imagine....


So is in Portugal. I'm finishing highschool this year so I have to choose which course to take. I'll apply to both film and electrotecnic engineer: One is my dream but potencially dangerous, I mean , work-wise, the film industry in Portugal is sadly very weak; On the other hand, I have a course that I think I can take, due to the marks I have in math and phisics, and if I complete it, I have an assured future, but it's not my dream job!
My parents weren't too happy when I told them I wanted to go to study film, but now they said that they will support me on whichever I choose, as long as I dedicate myself to it.

It's a very complicated situation.
To enter film school there are serveral phases of selection: I don't want to go through it all but I do have to make a thematic dossier including interviews,  photos, script idea, etc on one of the given subjects. One of the subjects is war, I thought "cool, my dad was in the war, I can interview him and track down his army buddies, interview them. i pretty much have an entire film in my head from the stories he tells me. the problem are the pictures... am I suposed to go  take pictures of the war? there is no war anymore. My dad has pictures, but they have to be taken by me.... I think I'll take some pictures of him and his buddies toghether looking at the war photos or something, and some pictures of the wall with the names of the dead soldiers.

Anyway, If I am admitted to film school with a fairly high admission mark, fuck it! I'll take the film course.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Reinhold on February 27, 2004, 05:51:59 PM
i'm still in high school, but i plan to do a few semesters of community colleges before i go to a university for film or telecomm. what my parents keep telling me is that i should get my core classes out of the way where it'll be cheap, and take a few non-essential classes that have my interest while i'm there. the community schools that i'd end up attending are said to have very good programs for what they are. i don't know what the case is where you are.

edit: i must have been smoking crack that day.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: phil marlowe on February 28, 2004, 03:26:00 AM
Quote from: rustinglass
So is in Portugal. I'm finishing highschool this year so I have to choose which course to take. I'll apply to both film and electrotecnic engineer: One is my dream but potencially dangerous, I mean , work-wise, the film industry in Portugal is sadly very weak; On the other hand, I have a course that I think I can take, due to the marks I have in math and phisics, and if I complete it, I have an assured future, but it's not my dream job!
My parents weren't too happy when I told them I wanted to go to study film, but now they said that they will support me on whichever I choose, as long as I dedicate myself to it.

It's a very complicated situation.
To enter film school there are serveral phases of selection: I don't want to go through it all but I do have to make a thematic dossier including interviews,  photos, script idea, etc on one of the given subjects. One of the subjects is war, I thought "cool, my dad was in the war, I can interview him and track down his army buddies, interview them. i pretty much have an entire film in my head from the stories he tells me. the problem are the pictures... am I suposed to go  take pictures of the war? there is no war anymore. My dad has pictures, but they have to be taken by me.... I think I'll take some pictures of him and his buddies toghether looking at the war photos or something, and some pictures of the wall with the names of the dead soldiers.

Anyway, If I am admitted to film school with a fairly high admission mark, fuck it! I'll take the film course.

dude, it sounds like we're in trhe same situation, finishing highschool, wanting to choose the dangerous path of film etc etc...i just know that THAT's what i wanna do and only that. so lets see, we might both end up sitting on a bench drinking in the park crying and thinking of our lost dreams. nah we'll show them

and taking photos...what the fuck? what is the point of that? you might as well go a head and shoot the thing then

Quote from: roman cibeles
Yeah I’ve heard how hard it is to get into film school in Denmark.

Is it the National Film School?

I think that when you can brag about Lars Von Trier being one of your graduates you set the standards pretty high.

Do you notice any difference between directors who attended film school and the self taught ones?

it's the national yes, and i believe the difference between the filmschoolers and the self taught ones is that there aren't really any self taught ones.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Recce on February 28, 2004, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: SoNowThen
$20 000

for the one year "intensive" course


It's really like a trade school. They need to keep pumping peons out to fill the PA gaps for all the city's US tv show run-offs...


Damn, that kinda sucks. Film school in Montreal just costs regular tuition (about 1250$ per semester) plus general film and development costs over the three year program. Although, I think someone once told me that the University foots the bill for a large chunk of film costs.

As far as Communications goes, you can choose to concentrate your studies on film for the three years. Its all shot on 16mm. Second and third year cost about 2000$ in all in film cost. I took the easy way out, concentrating on TV production (i.e. video, even though most TV productions shoot on film) and takin a few photography classes along the way.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Big Owl on February 28, 2004, 11:58:09 AM
As far as i know in ireland there is only 1 film course that offers a degree .You get let in based on marks off your school results and your portfolio marks .The highest 24 get in . Thats pretty harsh.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: LostEraser on June 14, 2004, 09:45:08 PM
I'm poor and my parents never encouraged my dream to be a filmmaker and no one in high school ever taught anyone about applying for student loans or grants or anything like that. So I never planned on going to college and imediately after high school I just started trying to make films myself independantly. And that's all I've been doing with my time since then. Now I'm 24 and I don't have much to show for it. Just a few semi good shorts that never played anywhere major (though I should have moved to LA or at least out of my small little suburban town long before I did, then I may have had more to show for it). Now I'm finally biting the bullet and going to Los Angeles City College. It's all I can afford. It's no UCLA or USC but they do have a film degree (the community college I looked into back home didn't even have a film program) plus I can maybe transfer. Though I'm mostly just going to meet other people who I can hopefully make films with. And just to give myself some sort of structure in my life since I've never had that. Plus it would be nice to get some sort of encouragement from teachers maybe. But who knows if anything will come of it. I guess I'm just tired of trying to gather film projects together that never really happen. I've studied film independantly my whole life (that's all I've ever really studied at all actually) so I doubt they will actually teach me something. But, hey, it's something to do.  

Has anyone else ever went to LACC? I hear as far as film goes it really is the best community college out there. Though, yes, it still is just a community college. But, like I said, it's something to do.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Dtm115300 on November 29, 2004, 05:02:08 PM
hey whats a better film school: USC or NYU



also what are the chances of getting in to one of thous schools. It's got to be close to impossable.

Also, one of my friends told me that if you can't get in to one of the top film schools, you should not even try to go to film school.

if i don't get in to USC or NYU i was just thinkning about going to Hofstra or Purchase for film. Is that a bad move?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Delanis on January 31, 2005, 10:33:49 PM
Not sure if this is too late for you to use or what, but right now im going to NYU Film.

NYU and USC are different film schools that cater to different tastes. USC is more studio-oriented, while NYU is more independent-oriented. It just depends on your taste in films or filmmaking, i guess.

Which one is better? dunno. NYU has more successful alumni, but there two qualifiers for that. Most of the really famous alum (Scorsese, Lee[both of them], Stone, Coens, Jarmusch, Solondz, what have you) attended the graduate program. People off the top of my head who went undergrad are C. Kaufman Shaymalan, Ratner, Heckerling, and whoever directed Monster's Ball and Finding Neverland. Also, I'm not absolutely certain, but I'm pretty sure that NYU has the largest undergrad film program in the US, 266 film freshmen this year. More students = more chances for having successful alum

Chances of getting in? Don't know about USC, sorry. Although, I hear that their film program, relative to NYU, is much smaller.
NYU, honestly, doesn't seem that competitive to get into. A large portion of the ppl here are just dispassionate rich kids wasting their parents' money. It's around 15-20% acceptance rate(I honestly expected a much lower precentage)

cant help with the third comment

cant help with the fourth, either



im only a freshman, so take what you will.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: kotte on January 31, 2005, 11:16:12 PM
Scorsese and Lee was grad. students. Much harder to get into as opposed to the undergraduate program, the one Joel Coen attended.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: MacGuffin on January 31, 2005, 11:39:10 PM
More freshmen in film shooting for NYU
Source: Los Angeles Times
 
For the fabled young dreamer who wanted to get into the movies, there was one direction to go and that was west. Now there are even more kids dreaming the dream, attending summer film schools, editing homemade movies with sophisticated computer equipment and applying to undergraduate film programs. But sometimes the tide flows in the opposite direction; sometimes even those born in the cradle of filmmaking are heading east.

When she was a high school senior, Hannelore Williams didn't even bother to complete the application to New York University's Tisch School of the Arts film program. She wanted the gold standard and applied to USC. Growing up in Culver City, the former home of MGM and current home of Sony Corp.'s Columbia Pictures, she was determined to stay where the action was, which happened to be her own backyard.

But after a year there, Williams transferred to Tisch. "At NYU," she says, "I had the chance to make my own films right away and at the same time experience the world. I mean, where better to do that but in New York?"

Now in her senior year, Williams has made several documentaries and shorts and interned at "Sex and the City," with the Scott Rudin company and at ThinkFilm in New York.

Still, her father, a color timer in postproduction at the studios, asks the question that you can't help wondering: Why would a kid from Tinsel Town go all the way to the other side of the rainbow to learn how to make movies?

Some of the draw is simply New York. Film students, cameras in hand, are known around campus for throwing themselves at this perfect location for someone who wants to breathe and taste all things urban and artsy.

The film school is located in a big building on lower Broadway in Greenwich Village, and one professor in a "Sights and Sounds" class had her students walk to nearby Chelsea to view dozens of works in galleries before she handed out cameras.

The Tisch staff embraces what it calls the "auteur theory" of helping each student develop his or her voice — as if training flutists or painters or a generation of young Jack Kerouacs who would (and probably will) starve for their films. At the school's roots are such directors as Martin Scorsese, Spike Lee and Oliver Stone, who came out of NYU more concerned with trying to get their visions on screen than with conventions of the movie business.

But the staff is also clear that it's not trying to train one kind of filmmaker and that a fair share of the students come to Tisch more eager to learn about making blockbusters than art house fare.

New York has much to teach, whether it's how to secure a police permit to film on a city street or how to hail a cab on a stormy day or how to find a hip club in the far reaches of boroughs. This fall there was even a 10-part reality show, "Film School," about Tisch that aired (where else?) on the Independent Film Channel. The characters were graduate students and, of course, the city itself.

Stronghold challenger

Williams came to NYU for a lot of the same reasons that are driving 1,200 high school seniors to apply for 240 slots in fall's freshman film class at Tisch. About half the slots are already filled with early-decision candidates, and the rest will be decided by early April. Last year about 40 of those slots went to kids from the West Coast.

Which is not to say that there is an exodus going on: USC and other premier film schools in the L.A. area are still flooded with applicants. But there's also no denying that Tisch has established a stronghold in what has been for a long time a Southern California monopoly. Tisch consistently shares first place with USC in the U.S. News & World Report ranking of film schools.

Applicants to the film and TV program at Tisch have to clear two hurdles. First is the creative portfolio. In addition to writing an essay, they must submit 10 minutes of film, 10 photographs, 10 pages of a screenplay, storyboards or photos of paintings or sculptures. Next is the academic review. The students who make the final cut usually have at least a 3.8 grade-point average and an SAT score of 1,350, according to admission officers.

"You have to have the academic chops to cut it," says David Irving, chairman of NYU's undergraduate film and television program. "But a kid with a 1,500 SAT and 4.0 won't get in if he doesn't have the portfolio that says, 'I know this is a difficult process, filmmaking, and I am tenacious. I have things to say.' "

He advises faculty on the portfolio review committee to look closely at the work because he knows the difficulty of comparing an advantaged high school senior who can find $5,000 to make a video short in a summer program with a senior who only has the resources to take 10 pictures of an ashtray. He also tells them to pay particular attention to the essays.

"I'm reading for storytelling skills, the ability to create mystery, twists, turns, all the movie languages," says Irving. "You read a lot of material that is 'Alias' or 'Alien' in a different form, an imitation the student assumes we want. Not!"

Sharon Badal, a Tisch graduate and a former Orion Pictures vice president who has been teaching at Tisch for 10 years, has reviewed about 100 portfolios for the fall. An essay she read by a student who thought she was too cool to take her younger sister to an ice show impressed Badal because it was poignant and vivid.

"Most of the professors think of ourselves as artists, not as producers, directors or cinematographers," she says. "We want kids who we can encourage to also march to their own drum."

Like USC, NYU has had a film program since the early part of the 20th century but only developed a separate school in 1965, seeking to become an incubator for film mavericks. Years later, the beat goes on with such indie and mainstream filmmakers as Jim Jarmusch, Martin Brest, Todd Solondz, Brett Ratner, Ang Lee, Amy Heckerling and Wes Anderson.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Delanis on February 01, 2005, 12:24:10 AM
I did say Scorsese and Lee were grad students.

It's extremely difficult to get into the grad program. I think only 24 are admitted per year.

I was pretty sure Joel Coen went to NYU Grad, although, I could be wrong.
My bad on saying Coens, only Joel went.


Sight & Sound, not Sights and Sound.
266 not 240
They don't require 10, just no more than
Also, it's only up to 6 pages for screenplays
Bad reporting
Jesus, I'm feeling a little nit-picky tonight.

One thing I've noticed about NYU is that sometimes they talk about the famous alum that have graduated, but they fail to mention that most of them went thru the grad program.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: killafilm on July 16, 2005, 11:08:56 PM
I went to a less known "film" school in Orlando.  More of a tech school than something like NYU.  It's kinda hard outside of a film school to be able to pick up an Arri 16mm camera or even a 35mm Panavision.  Directing is one thing, but I'll say that filmmaking is a whole other thing.  Knowing all that goes into film productions is something that I really had no clue of untill actually filming our class projects.

I will however say that I could have done the exact same thing I'm doing now, checking craigslist among other sites trying to get onto crews and learning even more.  So if you don't think film-school is your thing more than likely you'll at least be able to get onto a crew as a PA or even G&E or a boom op or something.  And you really do learn something new with each shoot.

just my 2 cents...
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Reinhold on August 10, 2005, 02:29:58 PM
Quote from: Dtm115300
hey whats a better film school: USC or NYU



also what are the chances of getting in to one of thous schools. It's got to be close to impossable.

Also, one of my friends told me that if you can't get in to one of the top film schools, you should not even try to go to film school.

if i don't get in to USC or NYU i was just thinkning about going to Hofstra or Purchase for film. Is that a bad move?

i go to Purchase. everybody i've talked to loves it. the conservatory is highly sought after and well-respected, but i personally don't think that it's as relevant to the industry as it once was. plus, it's 100 percent geared toward directing.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: MacGuffin on October 11, 2006, 05:39:54 PM
10 reasons you shouldn't go to film school
Source: DV Guru

Every aspiring filmmaker asks the age-old question at some point: should I go to film school? Will I be a better filmmaker for it, or will I spend a lot of money on education only to end up taking a job as a waiter to pay off my debt, wishing I'd spent the money on a guerrilla DV short instead? It's a tough question, but unfortunately no one can make the decision for you; the only universal piece of advice anyone can give you is, "it depends." And while I've made my own choice--indeed, my personal site is located at nofilmschool.com--I can see it both ways. Thus this week I'll look at 10 reasons why you should skip the .edu; next week I'll throw out 10 justifications for sending in your application.

First of all, I should note that when I talk about "film school," I don't mean taking a couple of film classes in college; I'm talking about shelling out for a specialized film program like USC/NYU/AFI/etc.

Ten reasons you should not go:

1. Your favorite filmmaker didn't go to film school.
Some of the directors working today who didn't attend are Steven Soderbergh, Robert Rodriguez, Quentin Tarantino, Richard Linklater, Spike Jonze... of course it depends on who your favorite filmmaker is, and plenty of famous directors are film school alumni, among them some of the most decorated. The trio of Spielberg Lucas, Scorcese, and Coppola all went to film school--but that was a different era, before the invention of...

2. Digital Video.
One of the primary reasons to go to film school back when Scorcese et al. attended was to gain access to the tools. 35mm or Super 16 equipment was too expensive to own and celluloid film was much more difficult to shoot on and edit. But nowadays many films showing in theaters (well, indie theaters, at least) are shot with the very same cameras that hundreds of our DVG readers have sitting at home on their desks. The DV revolution has a long way to go, but today the obstacles are more often related to distribution and raw talent, not equipment. Gaining access to a motion-picture camera is no longer a good reason to go to film school; besides...

3. Film school is expensive.
It's easy to justify spending six figures on an education because you're investing in the future. Plus there is a loan structure in place for repaying your debt, and there's a vague promise of a job once you have a degree in hand. But tuition is incredibly expensive, and you'll be paying it off for years to come, unless your last name is Rockefeller. If you think you have a great idea for a film--and that's a big "if," requiring enormous amounts of faith in yourself--then you may be able to produce your project for a whole lot less money than the six figures you'd spend on a degree. And once your labor of love is done, you can distribute your project using...

4. The Internet.
The biggest difference between today and 30 years ago isn't the advent of DV cameras, it's the advent of mass, free distribution like YouTube, iFilm, and a hundred other online sites. You could have all the talent in the world and a DV master of your piece de resistance in hand, but without the ability to put it out there for some recognition, you'd be up the creek. In today's era of amateur filmmakers being snatched up off of YouTube, however, you can be assured that there's an audience out there, there's a way to put your film in front of them, and there's a cadre of scared executives ready to hire anyone who understands kids these days. Another relevant aspect of the internet is the informational aspect; you can find intelligent film reviews, interviews, and forums for discussing movies online, which didn't exist several years ago. All of these things help you find...

5. The Long Tail.
Pre-interweb, it was much more difficult to find niche content that catered to your personal interests; but now, as Chris Anderson has written, even smaller films manage to find an audience, profitably. Even if you're making a niche film about heroin-addicted Latvians who skydive blindfolded while listening to Jethro Tull (actually, that sounds pretty interesting), you can find an audience for it. Ten thousand interested audience members spread across the country won't get your film seen in any one theater, because the geographic concentration of them is far too sparse to sell 100 tickets at any given location, on any given night. But ten thousand interested viewers on the internet means your film can get viewed ten thousand times and passed on many times over, through email, blogs, and myspace. Suddenly you're the authority on terminal-velocity Latvian addicts and have lined up funding for a sequel, without ever stepping foot in film school. And the Long Tail isn't just relevant as a producer, it's also relevant as a student, because...

6. Netflix + books = critical studies.
Classic, avant-garde, and generally obscure films used to be hard to get your hands on. Film school, once upon a time, was a great way to see movies you couldn't see anywhere else. But 90% of the movies you'll see in film school today are available on DVD. Not only that, but instead of having to pay $4/pop to rent them on your own, you can just sign up for an all-you-can-eat DVD rental service like Netflix and watch, rate, review, and queue films to your heart's content. Combine this with a few trips to the local bookstore and some Amazon listmania to get yourself a set of film history and theory books, and you've got a halfway decent critical studies program in your bedroom. That is, assuming you're motivated enough to put in all the work on your own, without grades, peers, and deadlines--which is not easy. Still, you can always...

7. Learn by doing.
Between the corporate video, television, and feature film industries, there are plenty of jobs out there. Rather than paying to learn, you can get paid to learn (Mark Cuban seems to have done okay with that). Regarding film specifically, there are advantages and disadvantages to this approach: the disadvantages are that you may not be surrounded by like-minded peers who can give you valuable feedback, you may get on a track that's not of your choosing (instead of being able to focus on one specialty at film school), and you may not have much time outside of your day job to pursue the projects you really want to. The advantages are that you're supporting yourself instead of going into debt, you're building up your resume, and you're gaining an understanding of how the real world works. And learning by doing is better because...

8. You can't teach art. Can you?
At the heart of the "should I go to film school?" question is an even more basic question: can art be taught? No. Yes. A little bit? Who knows. Personally I've always felt that there's something fundamentally disingenuous about teaching how to create. Yes, as a professor you can explain how a piece of art was created, you can further a student's understanding of the art form as a whole, and you can refine a student's technical know-how. But there's no right or wrong way to create. Of course, on the flip side, having a great professor who gives you good feedback and pushes you in the right direction can make the whole film school experience worthwhile (I'll talk about this next week). But many professors teach formula as technique, and you want to make sure it's your own vision on screen, not your professor's. Regardless...

9. Don't study film, study life.
My problem with Hollywood today is not a lack of craft, and my problem with film school is not a lack of theory; both of these areas of expertise are arguably more refined today than they've ever been. But what's mostly missing in Hollywood today is the writing--what's actually being said--and while they can teach you in school how to say what you've got to say, they can't tell you what to say. If film school costs $100k, I'd say you'd be better off traveling the world, reading a lot of books, doing volunteer work, and meeting a lot of people along the way. If you skip film school to travel the world and you're insecure about your understanding of the 180-degree rule, read the Wikipedia entry on it and be on your way. If, in the course of your travels, you discover that you're not interested in being a filmmaker after all, that's probably for the better too, because you would've realized that eventually, even if you got your degree in film. Because ultimately, when it comes to filmmaking...

10. You either have it or you don't.
Barry Diller said recently that "talent always outs." That is, if you're talented, you'll eventually make it, regardless of whatever obstacles you encounter along the way. Film school can help you become a better filmmaker--it can refine what's already there--but if you don't have the raw creativity, ability, and motivation from the start, you're doomed even if you've got a degree in hand. Conversely, if you've got what it takes, you'll eventually make it, whether you go to film school or not. This is why there's no right or wrong answer to the film school question; it's reductive, but... you either have it or you don't.

Next week I'll be posting ten reasons to enroll.

http://www.dvguru.com/2006/10/11/10-reasons-you-shouldnt-go-to-film-school/
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Pubrick on October 12, 2006, 02:47:11 AM
10 reasons you shouldn't go to film school
Source: DV Guru

Every aspiring filmmaker asks the age-old question at some point: should I go to film school? Will I be a better filmmaker for it, or will I spend a lot of money on education only to end up taking a job as a waiter to pay off my debt, wishing I'd spent the money on a guerrilla DV short instead? It's a tough question, but unfortunately no one can make the decision for you; the only universal piece of advice anyone can give you is, "it depends." And while I've made my own choice--indeed, my personal site is located at nofilmschool.com--I can see it both ways. Thus this week I'll look at 10 reasons why you should skip the .edu; next week I'll throw out 10 justifications for sending in your application.

First of all, I should note that when I talk about "film school," I don't mean taking a couple of film classes in college; I'm talking about shelling out for a specialized film program like USC/NYU/AFI/etc.

Ten reasons you should not go:

1. Your favorite filmmaker didn't go to film school.
Some of the directors working today who didn't attend are Steven Soderbergh, Robert Rodriguez, Quentin Tarantino, Richard Linklater, Spike Jonze... of course it depends on who your favorite filmmaker is, and plenty of famous directors are film school alumni, among them some of the most decorated. The trio of Spielberg Lucas, Scorcese, and Coppola all went to film school--but that was a different era, before the invention of...

2. Digital Video.
One of the primary reasons to go to film school back when Scorcese et al. attended was to gain access to the tools. 35mm or Super 16 equipment was too expensive to own and celluloid film was much more difficult to shoot on and edit. But nowadays many films showing in theaters (well, indie theaters, at least) are shot with the very same cameras that hundreds of our DVG readers have sitting at home on their desks. The DV revolution has a long way to go, but today the obstacles are more often related to distribution and raw talent, not equipment. Gaining access to a motion-picture camera is no longer a good reason to go to film school; besides...

3. Film school is expensive.
It's easy to justify spending six figures on an education because you're investing in the future. Plus there is a loan structure in place for repaying your debt, and there's a vague promise of a job once you have a degree in hand. But tuition is incredibly expensive, and you'll be paying it off for years to come, unless your last name is Rockefeller. If you think you have a great idea for a film--and that's a big "if," requiring enormous amounts of faith in yourself--then you may be able to produce your project for a whole lot less money than the six figures you'd spend on a degree. And once your labor of love is done, you can distribute your project using...

4. The Internet.
The biggest difference between today and 30 years ago isn't the advent of DV cameras, it's the advent of mass, free distribution like YouTube, iFilm, and a hundred other online sites. You could have all the talent in the world and a DV master of your piece de resistance in hand, but without the ability to put it out there for some recognition, you'd be up the creek. In today's era of amateur filmmakers being snatched up off of YouTube, however, you can be assured that there's an audience out there, there's a way to put your film in front of them, and there's a cadre of scared executives ready to hire anyone who understands kids these days. Another relevant aspect of the internet is the informational aspect; you can find intelligent film reviews, interviews, and forums for discussing movies online, which didn't exist several years ago. All of these things help you find...

5. The Long Tail.
Pre-interweb, it was much more difficult to find niche content that catered to your personal interests; but now, as Chris Anderson has written, even smaller films manage to find an audience, profitably. Even if you're making a niche film about heroin-addicted Latvians who skydive blindfolded while listening to Jethro Tull (actually, that sounds pretty interesting), you can find an audience for it. Ten thousand interested audience members spread across the country won't get your film seen in any one theater, because the geographic concentration of them is far too sparse to sell 100 tickets at any given location, on any given night. But ten thousand interested viewers on the internet means your film can get viewed ten thousand times and passed on many times over, through email, blogs, and myspace. Suddenly you're the authority on terminal-velocity Latvian addicts and have lined up funding for a sequel, without ever stepping foot in film school. And the Long Tail isn't just relevant as a producer, it's also relevant as a student, because...

6. Netflix + books = critical studies.
Classic, avant-garde, and generally obscure films used to be hard to get your hands on. Film school, once upon a time, was a great way to see movies you couldn't see anywhere else. But 90% of the movies you'll see in film school today are available on DVD. Not only that, but instead of having to pay $4/pop to rent them on your own, you can just sign up for an all-you-can-eat DVD rental service like Netflix and watch, rate, review, and queue films to your heart's content. Combine this with a few trips to the local bookstore and some Amazon listmania to get yourself a set of film history and theory books, and you've got a halfway decent critical studies program in your bedroom. That is, assuming you're motivated enough to put in all the work on your own, without grades, peers, and deadlines--which is not easy. Still, you can always...

7. Learn by doing.
Between the corporate video, television, and feature film industries, there are plenty of jobs out there. Rather than paying to learn, you can get paid to learn (Mark Cuban seems to have done okay with that). Regarding film specifically, there are advantages and disadvantages to this approach: the disadvantages are that you may not be surrounded by like-minded peers who can give you valuable feedback, you may get on a track that's not of your choosing (instead of being able to focus on one specialty at film school), and you may not have much time outside of your day job to pursue the projects you really want to. The advantages are that you're supporting yourself instead of going into debt, you're building up your resume, and you're gaining an understanding of how the real world works. And learning by doing is better because...

8. You can't teach art. Can you?
At the heart of the "should I go to film school?" question is an even more basic question: can art be taught? No. Yes. A little bit? Who knows. Personally I've always felt that there's something fundamentally disingenuous about teaching how to create. Yes, as a professor you can explain how a piece of art was created, you can further a student's understanding of the art form as a whole, and you can refine a student's technical know-how. But there's no right or wrong way to create. Of course, on the flip side, having a great professor who gives you good feedback and pushes you in the right direction can make the whole film school experience worthwhile (I'll talk about this next week). But many professors teach formula as technique, and you want to make sure it's your own vision on screen, not your professor's. Regardless...

9. Don't study film, study life.
My problem with Hollywood today is not a lack of craft, and my problem with film school is not a lack of theory; both of these areas of expertise are arguably more refined today than they've ever been. But what's mostly missing in Hollywood today is the writing--what's actually being said--and while they can teach you in school how to say what you've got to say, they can't tell you what to say. If film school costs $100k, I'd say you'd be better off traveling the world, reading a lot of books, doing volunteer work, and meeting a lot of people along the way. If you skip film school to travel the world and you're insecure about your understanding of the 180-degree rule, read the Wikipedia entry on it and be on your way. If, in the course of your travels, you discover that you're not interested in being a filmmaker after all, that's probably for the better too, because you would've realized that eventually, even if you got your degree in film. Because ultimately, when it comes to filmmaking...

10. You either have it or you don't.
Barry Diller said recently that "talent always outs." That is, if you're talented, you'll eventually make it, regardless of whatever obstacles you encounter along the way. Film school can help you become a better filmmaker--it can refine what's already there--but if you don't have the raw creativity, ability, and motivation from the start, you're doomed even if you've got a degree in hand. Conversely, if you've got what it takes, you'll eventually make it, whether you go to film school or not. This is why there's no right or wrong answer to the film school question; it's reductive, but... you either have it or you don't.

Next week I'll be posting ten reasons to enroll.

http://www.dvguru.com/2006/10/11/10-reasons-you-shouldnt-go-to-film-school/

he's right, don't do it.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Gold Trumpet on October 12, 2006, 02:52:48 AM
The only value I see in film school is having a productive environment and good connections. Both are valuable to get in the door, but neither have anything to do with becoming a good filmmaker.

The problem I see with film schools is that they are like a trade school in preparing you for one job but have a low percentage of guranteeing you shit. Yea, film schools suck. I've never cared for them much myself. Now I'm learning by way of Bernard Shaw that college promises you little of anything when it comes to acquiring intelligence.

(I'm still hoping for a job out of the deal, though)

Title: Re: Film School
Post by: soixante on October 13, 2006, 01:44:28 PM
The best reason to go to film school is to meet people and make contacts.  The whole six degrees thing really works. 

There's a Chinese expression:  a wise man knows everything, a shrewd man knows everybody.

Of course, if you're resourceful enough to meet people on your own, you can save on tuition.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: pete on October 13, 2006, 02:17:08 PM
the best reason to go to film school is getting a diploma doing something you probably would be doing anyways.  also I think there are people out there who just wanna have fun learning (aka wasting money) through their undergrad years, and film schools are easy A's.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: matt35mm on October 13, 2006, 04:27:52 PM
The best reason to go to film school is to meet people and make contacts.  The whole six degrees thing really works. 

There's a Chinese expression:  a wise man knows everything, a shrewd man knows everybody.

Of course, if you're resourceful enough to meet people on your own, you can save on tuition.

I work in the film department without being a film major (My major is Philosophy).  We'll see if that turns out to be smart.  I'll be interacting with all the production classes.

Minoring in Theater Arts is also allowing me to take classes like stage, lighting, costume design and also interacting with actors, crew, in addition to tapping into a history that I consider to be richer and more interesting than cinema's, mostly due to how long it's been around, and therefore the larger number of great people that have worked within it.  (Though modern theater is in far worse a condition than cinema is--cinema's really not in a bad place at all; theater is currently mostly TERRIBLE for a lot of the same reasons that people go to concerts only wanting to hear Beethoven's 5th).

I also want to work for the publicity department of our art event series department (Oh yeah, by the way, Spike Lee is giving a talk in Santa Cruz through our Arts & Lectures Series on Monday, November 27th).  I recently interviewed for the position, and I'll find out next week if I get that job or not.  I think that will help me out even more than the film department job, actually.

I'll report back 2.5 years from now regarding whether these were good ideas or not.

the best reason to go to film school is getting a diploma doing something you probably would be doing anyways.  also I think there are people out there who just wanna have fun learning (aka wasting money) through their undergrad years, and film schools are easy A's.

I don't know if you're joking or not, but...

This is exactly why I am not a film major.  Spend 4 years and lots of money doing something I would be doing anyways and missing out on, uh, education.  A film diploma is arguably as good as no diploma, from what I've seen.  And easy-As are a great way for the lazy to get lazier, and thus, less in a position to ever actually get up and make a movie.  I figure I need to use school to strengthen what wasn't going to be strengthened anyway.

But, like I said, I can't really say yet whether or not I have anything figured out.  I might very well be making things harder than they have to be just to wind up in no better a place, or maybe even a worse place.  I really don't know.  If we're all still here in 2.5 years, someone remind me to give an update.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: polkablues on October 13, 2006, 06:55:44 PM
A film diploma is arguably as good as no diploma, from what I've seen.

This is true.  At no point in anyone's film career will not having a degree in film ever be a dealbreaker.  It just doesn't come up.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: pete on October 13, 2006, 07:09:49 PM
that's not really fair, because 1) you're measuring a degree by its capitalist purposes, and 2) even then, did anyone's diploma in anything ever make a deal?  in fact, most liberal arts degrees really aren't all that profitable.  I started this as a joke, but I really have to say I got a bit annoyed by Matt's assertion.  It assumes that most film students use their degrees as some kind of career ladder, and then shoots it down immediately afterwards.  I kinda feel sorry for your feeling modern theater, a film degree, and career-free learning institutions to be beneath you.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: matt35mm on October 13, 2006, 07:59:08 PM
that's not really fair, because 1) you're measuring a degree by its capitalist purposes, and 2) even then, did anyone's diploma in anything ever make a deal?  in fact, most liberal arts degrees really aren't all that profitable.  I started this as a joke, but I really have to say I got a bit annoyed by Matt's assertion.  It assumes that most film students use their degrees as some kind of career ladder, and then shoots it down immediately afterwards.  I kinda feel sorry for your feeling modern theater, a film degree, and career-free learning institutions to be beneath you.

I'm not talking about profit at all.  I guess both you and Polka misinterpreted me.  I meant that most people with a film degree never do anything with what they learn, period.  They get the degree, and work at some crummy office or do a lot of thinkin' about this, thinkin' about that, and never go anywhere.  Oh wait no, they rack up a huge debt buying Final Cut Pro and the newest camera, and then work at some crummy office and think about doing stuff.  This is simply what I see, and I'm relentlessly being a meanie about that because I guess it's something that I fear and therefore consciously guard against.

Also, I don't feel like modern theater, film degrees, or career-free learning institutions (but this was that misinterpretation, remember?) are beneath me.  I feel like they're beneath what they could and therefore should be.  They are behind and they are dragging a lot of people down with them.  Dragging LIVES, and that's a big fucking deal.  There's a big difference between elitism and demanding that things live up to their potential, so please understand that I am for the latter, not the former.

And do you think that I ever expect my Philosophy degree to get me ahead career-wise?  It's all just about doing your best to figure out how to do what you want to do the best you can do it.  I am simply guessing that philosophy will do more for me as a person/artist than a film degree these days ever could.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: killafilm on October 16, 2006, 09:14:27 PM
I'm all for film school.  I don't see what the difference between studying film and say communications is.  Now there is a BS degree.  Sure you can read about all of the production postions online and study films and whatnot.  But what that doesn't give you is on-set experience.  Which I think you greatly need, unless you are some kind of wunderkind and make the next 'it' flick.  Currently I'm working as a PA on a feature, nothing to brag about, but...  Half of my fellow PA's haven't attended film school.  Since it's low budget we end up helping the G&E and even the Camera departments.  Do any of them know what a tweenie, or a duck bill, or a whip, or say how to operate the fisher Dolly that lives on our productioin truck are? No.  Do you really need to know what they are to direct? It's debatable but I'd say yes.  There are some many peculiarities to working on films that it's best to have at least a general know how of all departments.  And if you wanna direct you're going to have to deal and work with all of the departments.  You'll have to understand that a grip won't give a flying fuck about your movie if he/she isn't feed every six hours.  And all of this is assuming you already have a solid understanding of film history.  Which sadly it seems that most people out here don't.  I don't think it's happenstance that at least in America's case many of our great filmmakers have attended film school.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: MacGuffin on October 20, 2006, 12:52:04 PM
Ten reasons you should go to film school
Source: DV Guru

Last week I listed 10 reasons you shouldn't go to film school, figuring the anti-establishment argument would be the more controversial of the two (thus posting it first). Many who took exception to my points didn't seem to understand that I was also planning on posting a follow-up article exploring the flip side of the argument (although, in my mind, the reasons to go seem a lot more obvious). Hopefully these points will give a prospective film schooler some food for thought.

10 reasons you should go:

1. Peer connections.
Your classmates may be the most valuable resource you'll ever have. Go through the program, make friends, find alliances, and when you get out, stay in touch with everyone. As long as you realize there's life after film school and don't burn your bridges while you're there, you'll be able to find collaborators for your own projects, or possibly get a job on another classmate's project. While you're there you may even meet a writing or producing partner--the Joel to your Ethan Coen. That's not a good comparison, since they're brothers, not classmates, but... you get the point. Also, peer connections aren't the only advantages that come with a film school degree; you'll also get...

2. Industry connections.
Because film is a so-called "glamour" industry, everyone and their mother wants to work in it; this means the barriers to entry are more prohibitive than they are in, say, the hospitality industry. Breaking in is hard. But going to a program like USC or NYU gains you instant connections to an alumni network. This can be in the form of your professors keeping in touch with previous students who now work in the industry, it can be through your school's career services, or it can even be in the form of finding out at a job interview that your would-be boss also went to your alma mater (suddenly your job prospects are looking up). But for many of these interviews, to even get your foot in the door you need...

3. Technical know-how.
While listing 10 reasons not to go to film school, I asked, "can art be taught?" While that inspired some debate, I don't think there's any doubting that craft is certainly teachable. One commenter noted in support of the "art can be taught" argument that, while in film school, he was being taught how to draw; I would argue that being taught to sketch "mediocrely" [sic] is, in fact, merely an instruction on craft. So while no one can teach you how to be the next Scorcese, they can teach you camera framing, continuity editing, or high and low-key lighting. If you think you want to specialize--that is, if you want to be an editor or cinematographer, for example--then film school can certainly give you the technical knowledge to be proficient in those areas. And while you're learning the technical aspects of film, you're also getting....

4. Intelligent feedback.
Your professors and peers, being educated and theoretically intelligent when it comes to film, can give you sophisticated feedback on your own projects and ideas, and help mold you into a better filmmaker. Outside the haven of film school, it's not easy to get together a group of film-aware individuals, and have them critique your project. Considering that film school typically takes place during your formative years, the collective wisdom and advice you receive during your attendance could help inform your whole career. And much of this advice comes from...

5. Mentors to push you.
Shooting a no-budget DV flick with all your friends in it, and then showing it to that same group of friends and getting their "that's me on screen, this is awesome!" feedback, may not be the best way to develop your inner auteur. If you go to film school, you may or may not meet a great professor that inspires you in your studies, but if you do, that experience alone can be worth the price of admission. A good professor can push you to work harder and be more daring than you would be on your own; even if you don't find any particularly great teachers, however, the professors can collectively teach you...

6. History and theory.
Even if you want to make experimental, avant-garde films, you're still standing on the shoulders of giants. Not knowing theory and history is the equivalent of saying ignorance is bliss. Many young aspiring filmmakers cultivate a belief that "truly" creative films are created in a vacuum--and it's easy to buy into this, given Hollywood's current penchant for remakes, adaptations, and other "homages"--but skipping an immersion in history and theory is one sure way of shooting yourself in the foot, not only in terms of your own knowledge of what's been done before, but in terms of...

7. Credibility.
Diplomas are a necessity in many professions; film is not one of them (I'm still waiting for someone's "directed by" credit to be capped off with a "Ph.D"). Nevertheless, industry vets looking to separate the wheat from the chaff will often take you more seriously if you graduated from film school; at the very minimum, it shows you're serious about it (because, as already stated, everyone and their mother wants to be in movies). Of course, what truly matters in film is not where you went to school, but what's on your reel and what credits you have to your name; that is, what you've actually done. And in order to accomplish things, you need...

8. Time for your projects.
If you opt out of film school and do the 9-5 thing, pursuing your own projects on the side can be prohibitively difficult (to a certain extent, this depends on what your day job arrangements are). Working a day job and saving up your money to work on your own blood-sweat-and-tears project has a certain romantic appeal to it, but you'll need funds, equipment, free time, and last but not least, collaborators. Film isn't like writing, where you can sit down and do it yourself; for the most part, you need someone in front of the camera, too. And even if you're shooting a documentary all by yourself, you're most likely going to need large chunks of time set aside to shoot, which you might not be able to swing with an employer who expects you to show up to work every day. Film school gives you the collaborators, framework, and the time and space to work on your film pursuits (unless, of course, you go to a film program where only one in ten gets to actually produce his or her project, and everyone else becomes crew...). Also, if you stay in film school, you're more likely to...

9. Stay the course.
If you throw yourself into the working world, you'll tend to go where the opportunities are, and often times they aren't always film-related. I'm not saying that you'll come out of school with your sights set on being a writer/director and somehow end up becoming an air traffic controller, but I am saying that it's likely you'll take some detours along the way. Having elected not to go to film school (at the graduate level) myself, I'm speaking from experience--while I'm currently doing graphic design at MTV, I'm not doing film or video per se on a daily basis. If you go to film school, by contrast, you're setting aside three years to focus on film alone, and it's one way of ensuring that you won't get sidetracked. No matter how focused you are, however...

10. You either have it or you don't.
Yeah, it's the same as my #10 reason not to go to film school, but that's exactly the point; it applies to both lines of reasoning. If you're truly motivated to express yourself through the medium of film, ultimately... you're going to find a way to express yourself through the medium of film, degree or not.

No "10 reasons why" list is ever going to make up anyone's mind about film school (nor would a "3,457 reasons why" list). Ultimately the decision of whether or not to go to film school is dependent upon personal, not general, reasons: whether you enjoy the classroom environment, how well you get along with professors, how independent you are, what your level of film education and technical abilities are when you're making the decision, what type of films you eventually want to make, how you want to make them, and a hundred other personal factors.

Still, these are ten pretty fundamental reasons to go (or not). If you've read both arguments and crave further food for thought, check out MovieMaker's interviews (http://www.moviemaker.com/magazine/editorial.php?id=229) on this very topic.


http://www.dvguru.com/2006/10/20/10-reasons-you-should-go-to-film-school/
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: A Matter Of Chance on January 29, 2007, 01:50:46 PM
Today, a friend of mine just told me he got into USC. I didn't even apply there, for a variety of reasons. Now, though, I feel slight pangs of jealousy - and it seems like everything I dream of is more realistic for him and remains just pipe dreams for me. So...I came to xixax hoping your guys would put me back in line.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: soixante on February 01, 2007, 05:27:14 AM
Film school is but one path to getting into the film industry.  There are a lot of people who went to film school who never got anywhere in the industry, for a simple reason -- lack of talent.  Quite often, high test scores on the SAT can give someone an edge to get into film school.  That has nothing to do with talent or creativity.  Film school can hone pre-existing talent, but ultimately creativity can't be taught.  You either have it or you don't.  Often, people spend lavishly on film school, graduate, and find themselves in the same position that high school graduates occupy -- square one.

Hollywood is truly egalitarian, in that you don't need any particular credentials or degrees to break in.  If you have talent or great ideas, you have a good shot.  You can't practice law without a law degree, you can't be a doctor with a degree, but you can be a filmmaker with merely a high school diploma.  I'm not saying it's easy to break in, but people from left field break in all the time (Stallone with his first Rocky script, Tarantino, etc).

I think film schools are behind the curve.  They were cutting edge in the late 60's and early 70's, but now that wave has passed.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Reinhold on February 06, 2007, 02:22:53 PM
there are other options related to film study as well... my cinema studies degree is liberal arts so it's well-rounded, but i'm concentrating on film theory and i write, etc. in my own time.  it's great.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: MacGuffin on February 12, 2007, 12:54:27 AM
Where’d You Go to Film School? In My Bedroom
Source: New York Times

WHEN David Basulto decided to become a movie producer, the first thing he did was enroll in a class at a film school in Los Angeles. The second thing he did was drop out.

“I absolutely didn’t learn a damn thing from the course I took, so I went out and bought a couple of books,” Mr. Basulto said. Home-schooling worked where the classroom failed. After 45 days Mr. Basulto, who is 41, had raised enough money to produce his first feature, “18 Shades of Dust,” directed by Danny Aiello III, and had written off the traditional filmmaking education process for good.

Film schools “teach you a lot of theory, teach you to shoot on old, archaic systems,” he said. “They’re not cutting edge.”

The systems used at, say, the University of Southern California’s Robert Zemeckis Center for Digital Arts are anything but archaic. But Mr. Basulto’s point is worth noting in the era of miniDV digital video cameras, Final Cut Pro editing systems and YouTube auteurs with development deals. Thousands of new filmmakers are just diving in, many with the help of instructional products claiming to provide low-cost, high-impact alternatives to film school.

Sold on DVDs and CDs, with names like “Film School in a Box” and “Make Your Own Damn Movie,” these programs, often conceived by people with no formal film training of their own, offer surprisingly detailed tutorials on a variety of film-related topics: blocking, editing, even fund-raising and distribution. Priced roughly from $50 to $500, they can instill confidence without the bother of hundreds of thousands of dollars of a formal education.

Whether they can really teach how to make a good movie remains open to debate.

“You’re talking about an education process that takes the teacher out of the process,” said Michael Taylor, chairman of the film and television department at the U.S.C. School of Cinematic Arts.

“I think you do learn by doing, and we teach by doing in our film school,” Mr. Taylor added, “except it’s guided by a faculty who sort of know what they’re doing.”

Still, some established film schools have welcomed these programs as supplements to their existing coursework. “I think that the DVDs are great support materials,” said Paula Froehle, associate chairwoman of “below the line” curriculum — technical skills like lighting and editing — at the film department at Columbia College in Chicago. “Certainly there are times that I reference them, because I think they can function as a more dynamic textbook than a lot of the written material that’s out there.”

Virtually all the available filmmaking software rejects traditional, theory-based education, offering instead what purport to be practical crash courses in how to make a cheap but professional-quality movie. “Film School in a Box,” a video editing program, for instance, offers its users 15 hours’ worth of unedited footage from “The Confession,” a suspense drama that was shot in one take from 11 different cameras. Using the completed film as a point of comparison, users can construct their own version.

“Let them learn to edit movies, not old TV,” said David Kebo, the program’s co-creator and co-director of “The Confession.” He means that literally: Mr. Kebo tells of working on another feature, “Mojave,” with an editor whose film-school training in the 1990s began with recutting old episodes of “Gunsmoke.”

Other programs derive from a sense that existing instructional materials are incomplete. When the director Per Holmes, for instance, decided to shift from nonlinear music videos to traditional narrative films a few years back, he ran through the existing literature in two weeks. Unfulfilled, he decided to create his own master class. The result was a comprehensive instructional DVD set called “Hollywood Camera Work,” which teaches advanced blocking and staging techniques. The course resulted from a “tremendous amount of watching, pondering and systematizing,” Mr. Holmes said.

Offhand dismissiveness of traditional education is an article of faith among the makers of such software. “You have the people who come out of the other end, and they don’t know anything, and they’re not ready to make movies,” said Mr. Holmes, who said he would rather not bash film schools, many of which use his product.

To Jason J. Tomaric, 30, a film director and creator of a DVD course called “The Ultimate Filmmaking Kit,” “the big problem I’ve seen in film schools is that you’re taught by academics who have never made a movie before, let alone had one distributed.”

Mr. Tomaric’s DVD, like most of its competition, claims to offer hard-won lessons from the trenches of independent film — in this case from his production of a feature film called “Time and Again,” which cost $2,000 to make and was released in 2003. “We actually did it,” he said. “We made a movie that got distributed and made a profit.” Not surprisingly, the distrust runs both ways. Many educators say that a few hundred dollars’ worth of software cannot replace years of study, never mind the network of industry connections that often pave the way from school to a first job in the industry. “Asking what role does the film school play is like saying what role does the liberal arts college play if one has access to an encyclopedia?” Mr. Taylor said. “The idea that you can do it yourself is, I think, rather ridiculous.”

Tom Denove, vice chairman for production in the film, television and digital media department of the film school at the University of California, Los Angeles, contended that educational software often misses the real point of making a film: the inherent power of a narrative. “What’s lacking in so many films from people without a film-school education isn’t the technical expertise,” he argued. “It’s the ability to turn that expertise into a compelling story.”

Even so, democratization appears to be an irreversible trend in cinema. The thousands of movies each year now submitted to festivals around the world are testimony to a guerilla mentality that says no one needs official permission to make a film; and the advocates of teaching software often see themselves not so much training, but liberating new filmmakers.

“We try to inspire people to understand that they do not just have to work for Paramount or Sony — that does not necessarily validate their lives,” said Lloyd Kaufman, the longtime president of Troma Entertainment, whose book-and-DVD combination program, “Make Your Own Damn Movie,” offers lessons on everything from script conferences to presentations to potential investors to creating inexpensive yet realistic special effects.

As Mr. Kaufman sees it, those who want to make a movie should, and avoid the studio system entirely: “They don’t have to pitch movies to 23-year-old idiots who have never heard of John Ford or Charlie Chaplin.”
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: pete on February 12, 2007, 10:35:45 PM
this whole tired debate reminds me of a bunch of karate guys sitting around arguing about whose kungfu is the best.  what does it mean that the film school doesn't work or the film software doesn't teach you how to tell stories?  the only arguments they can make against each other are silly testimonials--so and so didn't learn a damn thing in film school...etc.  the softwares are still as theoretical as the film schools, since the students still aren't "making films".  herzog says his film school requires everyone to walk 3000 miles.  that's film school.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: picolas on February 13, 2007, 11:42:54 PM
(http://www.chiefbloggingofficer.com/images/poster-beautiful-mind.jpg)
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Gamblour. on March 20, 2007, 07:50:54 PM
So, my academic career is coming to an end. I came to this school because it's one of the only ones in the state with a film program and it gave me a scholarship. Where do I stand?

Georgia State University, as you could probably guess, did nothing to ready me for a career in film. I went to SCAD and spent a weekend shooting a film with a friend, and I learned more that day than in all the four years I went here. Well, at least about technical stuff and how a set runs, but everything about filmmaking I taught myself.

However, the school gave me access to Final Cut Pro, which I've digested thoroughly, and some equipment, and really, having assignments to do truly is helpful for those without a clue what direction to go.

As for people who act high and mighty for not going to film school, I think going to college is a great life experience for someone to have, but school's not for everyone, and if you can teach yourself more and be more motivated on your own, that's great, you really wouldn't benefit from school. For me, having access to Final Cut Pro was probably the best thing I gained. That and having awesome classes discussing films and exposure to films I wouldn't have thought to watch. Instructors can be very influential and eye-opening. Outside of the film program, I've hated the classes here, but the film program did have a lot to offer at least. And for personal reasons, coming here was a great decision.

From here, I'm not quite sure what to do, but I've got some ideas.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: pete on March 25, 2007, 02:48:19 AM
life experience, my friend.  if you've got a little bit of cash, go abroad.  if you dont, then do some Americorps or something, either way, see the world, and find some stories and textures of your own.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Gamblour. on March 25, 2007, 07:47:04 PM
I know, I plan on it. I know you swear by Chris Doyle, and if a guy can spend years chugging it on a Norwegian tanker and then go and film In the Mood for Love (which I finally saw...fucking brilliant), then his are words to swear by. I'm heading to New Zealand in September. Maybe for a few weeks, but it's only a sneak preview. But yeah, I read this thing where someone said money should be spent not on material things but on memories, and I plan to live by that.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: matt35mm on March 25, 2007, 09:39:15 PM
walk a lot.  a LOT.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Gamblour. on March 26, 2007, 12:27:51 PM
walk a lot.  a LOT.
I don't even own a car.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: for petes sake on March 28, 2007, 08:01:46 PM
From here, I'm not quite sure what to do, but I've got some ideas.

Do you plan on moving to Los Angeles sometime after graduation?  The reason I ask is because that's what was strongly encouraged for my class at a similar east coast film school.  I've been out here for almost a year, and so far I've found the experience alternatively wonderful and discouraging depending on the day.  There is a lot of great opportunity and exposure in LA that you can't get anywhere else, but most people don't fully comprehend what an entry-level position in the industry means until they actually get out here.  Anyways, I remember after idea of picking up all my shit and moving across the country after graduation was terrifying at the time, wondering if you (or anyone else on the board) has had similar considerations...
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Gamblour. on March 28, 2007, 10:24:32 PM
What work have you found while out there?

I'm really not interested in working PA jobs or crawling up a ladder, or working in the industry at all. I think the most incredible thing about film right now is the entrepreneurship people can be capable of with just a few dollars. I personally want to pursue my own ideas, and if that means years of trying to get into festivals and lots of failure and struggle, so be it. I've got some ideals I'm going to stick with, and people might scoff with cynicism, but I feel like those who scoff have given up.

What makes me happy though is that where I work (retail) I sometimes sit in the stock room for long periods of time, just waiting for time to pass, but when I think about ideas and get inspired or motivated to write, I could stay up all night doing it. To know that I've got the driving force really keeps me optimistic.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: A Matter Of Chance on March 28, 2007, 10:59:38 PM
gamblour i think you're going the way to go
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: for petes sake on April 09, 2007, 06:25:33 PM
What work have you found while out there?

I've done everything from being an extra on an infomercial to volunteering on indie films shooting in the area.  Currently I work as a production coordinator at a movie titles/trailer house in Hollywood and intern at Ad Hominem Enterprises.  Like you, I want to ultimately be a director so "working up the ladder" is really of very little help to me.  Right now I am trying to get into the camera department so that I can AC or cam op using the spare time between shoots to write.  I think doing so will aid my technical knowledge but it's still mainly something to pay the bills while I pursue my own career on the side. 

That being said I think being an intern/script reader has probably been one of the most helpful experiences I've had as a writer.  You read a lot of really bad scripts and a couple of good ones and doing so really helps you to distinguish what writing works and what doesn't.  When you add specific details  are you adding texture or distractions?  With your character arc are you being too subtle or not subtle enough?  In many ways what you're doing is refining your "taste," which I've found that many people erroneously think they already have a handle on.  Of course once you have that sensibility you still have to be able to implement it into your work, but I think it has allowed me to trust my gut a lot more when I write about what's going to work and what's not.  It's hard to articulate, but I do think that analysis is the first step to improvement and you're never going to get enough exposure to pure writing as you will working in the industry. 
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Reinhold on August 05, 2008, 09:40:31 PM
first off, a HUGE thank you to Mac for being my search function.  :bravo: :bravo:

and now, the film school debate: Grad School Edition

i want to edit. ten months from now i will have an academic film degree and still have basically nothing on my reel. i couldn't get a job in the industry if i wanted to yet because i have virtually no hands-on training and final cut pro experience is useless in this avid world (plus it's extremely common).  i feel like i won't stand out enough in the job market to be able to feed myself by editing.

as for grad school... i'm a good student with a lot going for me except for a reel. the cost/loans don't bug me. fuck it, it's only money. the issue is that i'm only very excited by the prospect of an MFA from Cal Arts, Chapman, AFI, or UCLA but i'm applying to several more. conversely, if i were to get a job at the Whitehouse (an international post firm) or Optimus or something like that i'd take it in a heartbeat even if it was a glorified internship.

winging it post-undergraduate school is absolutely not an option. i'm not interested in working some bullshit job while the dream of editing slowly dies at the feet of no-budget projects. i just want to guarantee that i will be around editing (in school, for work, whatever) over the next few years and i want to be reasonably assured of an employable future.  as i stand, i'll be applying to both schools and employers and i'll take whatever seems best at the time. if i get the job(s), then i'll save up and maybe go or maybe not. if i go right away, i will leave grad school with my theory education, plus a reel, plus a terminal degree, plus contacts, not to mention a load of debt.

both avenues seem quite logical given the right opportunity with either, especially re: my lack of technical experience.  i welcome any insights, though (especially related to the schools i mentioned above). 

edit: what the fuck? that's not an eerie green glow.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: matt35mm on August 06, 2008, 02:01:01 PM
first off, a HUGE thank you to Mac for being my search function.  :bravo: :bravo:

and now, the film school debate: Grad School Edition

i want to edit. ten months from now i will have an academic film degree and still have basically nothing on my reel. i couldn't get a job in the industry if i wanted to yet because i have virtually no hands-on training and final cut pro experience is useless in this avid world (plus it's extremely common).  i feel like i won't stand out enough in the job market to be able to feed myself by editing.

as for grad school... i'm a good student with a lot going for me except for a reel. the cost/loans don't bug me. fuck it, it's only money. the issue is that i'm only very excited by the prospect of an MFA from Cal Arts, Chapman, AFI, or UCLA but i'm applying to several more. conversely, if i were to get a job at the Whitehouse (an international post firm) or Optimus or something like that i'd take it in a heartbeat even if it was a glorified internship.

winging it post-undergraduate school is absolutely not an option. i'm not interested in working some bullshit job while the dream of editing slowly dies at the feet of no-budget projects. i just want to guarantee that i will be around editing (in school, for work, whatever) over the next few years and i want to be reasonably assured of an employable future.  as i stand, i'll be applying to both schools and employers and i'll take whatever seems best at the time. if i get the job(s), then i'll save up and maybe go or maybe not. if i go right away, i will leave grad school with my theory education, plus a reel, plus a terminal degree, plus contacts, not to mention a load of debt.

both avenues seem quite logical given the right opportunity with either, especially re: my lack of technical experience.  i welcome any insights, though (especially related to the schools i mentioned above). 

edit: what the fuck? that's not an eerie green glow.

Sounds like you're giving it pretty good thought, so I'm sure that if you just continue with this level of research, you'll come to a school you're comfortable with.

This past school year, our school had a lot of alumni who now work in the industry at various levels (I guess the most famous would be Camryn Manheim) come to talk to us.  There was an editor who runs her own company, as were a few writers and directors, an agent, some producers, another editor, a former Vice President of Disney, Vice President of Production at Warner Bros., a President of Worldwide Acquisitions at Universal, a guy who made little docs for PBS.  Neat stuff.

ANYWAY, the "to grad school or not to grad school" question was a major one.  The consensus seemed to be that it's a fine path that offers a nice place to grow, even though it will put you in debt.  Since these are all people who had managed to find decent jobs, they didn't really offer a consensus on whether or not it is more likely to get you work.  In your case, since you are looking to get more experience, and don't yet have a reel, then indeed it would be very helpful for you.  And I guess schools like USC have a solid reputation for getting you work afterwards.

I briefly considered grad school, but as of now I've decided it's not really what I want.  The contacts you make are perhaps the most important thing regarding job-getting, but opinions from the group of alumni were basically that you can make good contacts in school or by just jumping straight into the field.  Basically, the alternate route if you don't decide to go to grad school is to get a shitty job at an agency or an editing house or wherever, meet people there, complain about your shitty jobs together (this builds a pretty tight bond), and then stay in touch.

They all painted a pretty positive and simple portrait of the industry, actually, which was comforting to me.  While no one can know the path their career will take, everyone seemed to agree that the industry is good to people who are smart, reliable, hard-working, and nice to be around, because people will always want to work with you.  It sounds simple, but it was essentially The Secret that they wanted to share with us.  Apparently a lot of people say that they know this but few stick it out, which is why the few who stick it out, uh, stick out.  This is different from "winging it," though.  It's more of a dedicated pay-your-dues kind of thing, constantly proving yourself and delivering more than expected at shit jobs until someone notices (but unless you're REALLY unlucky, someone will eventually notice and have a lot of goodwill toward you).

One thing that I did notice out of our group of alumni, though, was that the people who didn't go to grad school (or didn't study film at all) tended to work at studios and make more money, while the grad school people worked independently and were basically still in debt years later (but were getting work and were on their way to getting out of the debt).

But anyway, both your options (either working in the industry or grad school) sound like the right ones, depending on what you're most comfortable with.  I'm afraid I can't offer much more insight.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Gamblour. on August 08, 2008, 12:53:25 PM
Film school for me was a no brainer. Grad school, however, I would avoid. For my purposes, I always reasoned it out that the amount of money I would pay for it, I could just use towards shooting my own film.

I'm not sure what the job market's like where you are, or if you have any contacts already. I got my job through an old professor. It sounds as though you'd flourish in grad school, though. If you have a semester left, you absolutely must do an internship. Seriously, it will increase your chances of getting a job by like 1000%. It doesn't necessarily mean doing bitchwork, but making the most of learning everything you can while you're there. Don't expect a stipend, though some have them. I know Georgia Public Broadcasting offered a stipend with their internships. Check into local television.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: Reinhold on August 08, 2008, 02:30:08 PM
Film school for me was a no brainer. Grad school, however, I would avoid. For my purposes, I always reasoned it out that the amount of money I would pay for it, I could just use towards shooting my own film.

I'm not sure what the job market's like where you are, or if you have any contacts already. I got my job through an old professor. It sounds as though you'd flourish in grad school, though. If you have a semester left, you absolutely must do an internship. Seriously, it will increase your chances of getting a job by like 1000%. It doesn't necessarily mean doing bitchwork, but making the most of learning everything you can while you're there. Don't expect a stipend, though some have them. I know Georgia Public Broadcasting offered a stipend with their internships. Check into local television.

I'll go wherever there's a bullish job market and I have no contacts that I haven't made myself. I'd have a blast in grad school. By the way, I'm more interested in doing TV than cinema. Have been since the beginning-- my cinema studies program is geared mostly toward visual literacy and the deconstruction of pleasure.

Last year I interned for guys who opted not to go to grad school in favor of making some films and ended up regretting it. This semester, I've got another internship for which I'm extremely excited, and I think I've got one nailed down for the spring as well as long as I don't fuck anything major up when I meet with the producer in a few weeks. While this semester's should be awesome (I'm a post production intern for Xavier: Renegade Angel starting in September), I can't wait for next semester's. That one (hopefully) will be in the new york office of a leading international post production firm where I've wanted to work since high school--- although I didn't know until last year that this was the place doing most of the work I liked.  Walrus and I did have a public access show in High school, but I don't think it's an option for me in college because I don't have enough time. Plus in new york those internships are offered through the mayor's office, to NYC residents only.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on October 04, 2010, 03:55:41 PM
I've been considering pursuing a Film Studies Grad Program, as opposed to Production, and was hoping to find a program that offered its courses online. I've been snooping around the internet for some suggestions, but I haven't really found anything other than a couple of sites that offer "resources" for, what I can only assume to be, On Campus courses.

Is anyone aware of an Online Program? I have a job that gives me 8 hours of nothing to do but the internet, and I'd rather use this time wisely instead of dicking around with iCycle (http://www.dampgnat.com/icycle) all day.*

*I do read, by the way, but would prefer some sort of structure as opposed to the random pickings of our campus library.
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: squints on October 04, 2010, 05:08:46 PM
I don't really know of any online graduate film studies institutes but if you want Film Studies for Free
http://filmstudiesforfree.blogspot.com/ (http://filmstudiesforfree.blogspot.com/)
Quote
A pluralist, pro bono, and purely positive web-archive of examples of, links to, and comment on, online, Open Access, film and moving image studies resources of note.

This is a pretty great blog
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: KJ on May 22, 2017, 05:04:17 PM
I'm feeling pretty shitty atm because I failed yet again to get into the practical film schools I applied to. This is not first time I've tried and it will probably not be the last, but I'm starting to lose all the confidence I had before. It's frustrating because I honestly thought I had enough talent to at least get into a fucking school. It's pretty much the only thing I haven't questioned about myself up until now and now i'm starting to lose that too... i know it's not the only way to get your foot in the door and that I should keep trying, but it's annoying when you start doubting yourself.

my spontaneous reaction was to become great and show them fuckers what I can do, but how do you keep that spirit up when you fail again and again?
Title: Re: Film School
Post by: WorldForgot on July 20, 2017, 05:21:46 PM
my spontaneous reaction was to become great and show them fuckers what I can do, but how do you keep that spirit up when you fail again and again?

Hmm, I'd say that you could give yourself perspective by considering some of your favorite films that weren't well received. I think some of our biggest inspirations have failures we can learn from, and even, failures that can put us at ease. Some of my favorite films are critical "failures." Don't see it as a judgement on You as You, it's really only their take on You as Institution's Candidate.

I went to film school, even did an internship at a (moderately) successful production company, yet , post-graduation, I can't seem to get any gigs in the industry. Rather than think of the interviews I'm taken and see them as "failures," I have started considering that this industry is often one of self-starters. As soon as I have a script that I feel is audience-worthy, I'm going to rework it until it's producible at my current budget... Even if it doesn't get into festivals (which has happened to shorts of mine before) there are many ways to get eyeballs now... I think even if only the Xixax community liked it, I'd consider it a personal success.