XIXAX Film Forum

Film Discussion => The Vault => Topic started by: wilder on August 24, 2016, 02:17:56 PM

Title: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: wilder on August 24, 2016, 02:17:56 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/hutaN3Z.jpg)

An uncle is forced to take care of his teenage nephew after the boy's father dies.

Written and Directed by Kenneth Lonergan
Starring Casey Affleck, Michelle Williams, Kyle Chandler, Matthew Broderick, and Lucas Hedges
Release Date - November 18, 2016


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdKk_sYQNI
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Just Withnail on August 25, 2016, 02:48:45 PM
Really excited for this, but somebody said the trailer should be avoided at all costs as it spoils some very central scenes. wilder, did you see it?
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Ghostboy on August 25, 2016, 03:01:09 PM
It features snippets of really key scenes but doesn't really spoil anything. That being said, it also doesn't convey how powerful the movie is and you won't really gain anything by watching it.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: wilder on August 25, 2016, 04:24:17 PM
No I haven't seen it yet
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: wilder on November 14, 2016, 02:44:26 PM
Screenplay (http://54.70.96.231/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/MBTS_ScriptDownload.pdf)
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: samsong on November 19, 2016, 03:18:51 AM
checking in to say this movie is stunning and one of the best i've ever seen, period. 
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: wilder on December 01, 2016, 04:02:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1B_8hWcgng
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Reelist on December 13, 2016, 08:31:47 PM
totally lived up to it's reputation as one of the best this year! This was my first Lonergan experience, he reminds me of Haneke in a lot of ways, mostly in how deliberately everything is framed and cut. Also, that quality of letting the story slowly reveal itself to the audience instead of each character being a mouthpiece for it. It's the most a movie has wedged itself into my memory since 'The Master', only this one I don't think I'll need to see as much because there isn't any 'code' in it to figure out, only deeper revelations about why the characters act how they do. It's one of the most subtly told movies about loss I've ever seen, I knew I'd be in for some heart wrenching stuff but didn't expect it to be presented like it was in it's backwards, roundabout fashion. I think I can echo the words of samsong, this is pretty undeniably great.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: wilder on January 10, 2017, 03:43:08 PM
Blu-ray (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Manchester-by-the-Sea-Blu-ray/158876/) on February 21, 2017
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 28, 2017, 01:25:16 AM
Realist movies are usually not my thing, and this is not always an easy watch, but I think it mostly accomplished what it was going for.

Spoilers...

The first half is perfect. And the reveal knocked my socks off. One of the most powerful things I've seen in a while.

I'm not sold on the second part, though. After a while it felt like the movie was running out of things to say.

(I also have a pet peeve about movies showing characters not only driving, but parking their cars, getting out of their cars, getting back in their cars, etc.)

When Patrick said he had two girlfriends, I was sure it was a joke and couldn't actually be in this movie. But it sure was. Was it supposed to be cute and endearing? At that point I mostly stopped caring what happened to him.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: modage on January 28, 2017, 08:42:55 AM
Same.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Reelist on January 28, 2017, 12:43:23 PM
Spoilers

When Patrick said he had two girlfriends, I was sure it was a joke and couldn't actually be in this movie. But it sure was. Was it supposed to be cute and endearing? At that point I mostly stopped caring what happened to him.

I'm glad you bring this up, I feel like less of a prude for thinking the same. When he asks if his girlfriend can sleep over, you're like "aww, he's sexually active! That's cute." Then you hear he's working on this other girl too and it's like "What, am I supposed to believe this kid's some sort of player now? Fuck him." Those two characters seem to be filling the role of the absence of females and family in Lee's life. He'll do anything for his nephew, but these girls on the outskirts, not so sure about them. The death of his brother gives him this renewed opportunity to play the part of a father figure at the exact point in this kid's life when he starts thinking he's a grown man. He probably even kind of hated his Dad for all the rules and demands he put on him. Above all, I like the messiness of this film and that there's never this crystal clear resolution or cliche'd bonding moment, but you do feel Lee's heart is starting to thaw and maybe he's ready to be around other people again.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 28, 2017, 12:58:39 PM
(continued spoilers)

Good points. I think we are supposed to identify more with Lee. We probably aren't supposed to think Patrick is horrible, though. When he finally sleeps with the second girl, we see him grinning, it's part of a "things are getting better" montage, and I genuinely think it is supposed to be cute. A "boys will be boys" kind of thing that is perhaps intended as a regionalism. But it's actually a weird discordant note that doesn't work.

And it strains credulity that the girls don't know about each other. They are even at the funeral together, where Patrick is sitting with girlfriend #1. How did he introduce them to each other? "This is my girlfr... I mean friend..."

The issue is not that he's having sex with multiple girls. Fine if that's your thing and they both know about it. The problem is that to carry this out in secret he has to operate as a pathological liar and is constantly betraying both of them.

He's in a long-term relationship with girl #1. She goes out of her way to be emotionally supportive and even protective of him, so she clearly believes it's serious. How can that not end in catastrophic heartbreak? Can't even attribute Patrick's behavior to coping with his dad's death, because he had been pursuing girl #2 before that.

I might even tell myself to lighten up, but this is a realist film in which we are definitely meant to take the characters seriously, internalizing their relationships and behavior. I would be interested in an interpretation that responds to my complaints.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: samsong on January 28, 2017, 03:23:16 PM
patrick's a teenager.  personally i found it refreshing to see a teenage boy in a movie being exactly as they are: self absorbed and immature.   

sorry there weren't any whip pans in this.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Drenk on January 28, 2017, 05:58:09 PM
patrick's a teenager.  personally i found it refreshing to see a teenage boy in a movie being exactly as they are: self absorbed and immature.   



Yes. To me, it made the situation of Casey dealing with a teenager more interesting—he's not an angel, he's not a monster, I'm still in total empathy with his loss and the strangeness of these days.

Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 28, 2017, 07:01:41 PM
Spoilers...

I get that. But I really don't think I was supposed to have the reaction that I had. I rapidly started losing interest in the movie. When Lee finally decided not to be his guardian, it was a total anticlimax.

I'm more than comfortable with realistic, flawed characters. I think the movie cheats a bit by not letting us see the consequences that Patrick will inevitably face. And you can't tell me we're not supposed to find his antics at least a little cute.

Patrick's love triangle feels more like a fantasy than anything resembling realism. I was surprised how many times they put a button on it — like, did we really need to see those girls knocking on the car window and giggling over him? "Are those your girlfriends too?" / "They wish." The last section of the movie kind of starts draining the realism from the flawless first half.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Drenk on January 28, 2017, 07:30:53 PM
SPOILERS

Yes, I don't remember if the second girlfriends knows about the other girl, but she must, right? About the consequences: I've learned from my friends, who are intelligent young women, that boys can do pretty much every thing they want to them without facing much consequences—but it's just my experience, that's why it didn't break the realism of the movie for me. And it is shown as a quirk most than anything. But a somewhat successful hockey player who is popular with girls and cheating with his official girlfriend doesn't strike me as fantasy; I'd even say that the fact that the movie doesn't see the situation as exceptional is what makes it real. How easy things happen.

I'm sorry it took you out of the movie, the scene where he says "I can't beat it" goes beyond Patrick.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 28, 2017, 08:08:00 PM
To keep this in perspective, I'm complaining about a movie that I liked. And I'm probably holding it to an unfairly high standard.

Patrick says the girls don't know about each other. The way he doesn't face consequences just makes him more annoying, and not in a particularly fun way. But I think it is supposed to be fun. Recall the scenes with the mom almost catching them. Almost indistinguishable from an American Pie movie. The mom's behavior didn't particularly make sense, either.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: samsong on January 29, 2017, 01:21:42 PM
one of the film's most invaluable virtues is its expression of the symbiotic relationship between humor and sadness, comedy and tragedy.  i can't think of a movie that does this more completely and poignantly than this.  maybe secrets & lies

it's also important to take the setting into account.  most behavioral anomalies, i chalked up as massachusetts specific idiosyncrasies.  which isn't to say anything was confounding and that the only way to explain it is to shrug one's shoulders and say, "that must be how they are out there."  it's all still very much in keeping with general human behavior.  as portrayed in the film, there's a lax attitude towards teenagers having sex amongst certain families in manchester, and i don't think it's a far-fetched idea that this is true in, you know, other parts of the world.  i don't think the scene with the mother "almost catching them" was about that at all.  it's pretty obvious what's going on and she clearly knows, she just isn't going to flip out about it.  kids always think they're getting away with shit that parents can see right through.  this is very true to life to me.

also patrick's behavior in the wake of his dad's passing is a bit unsettling but also probably very true to life.  life doesn't stop because you lose someone, and in the case of a teenage boy, he's still gonna just want to hang out with friends and try to get it in.  his grief is private, almost undetectable, but that's how it is with some people.  others are consumed by it.  others lash out.  i really don't think any of the behavior displayed in this movie is ever strange or disingenuous to be beyond understanding.  one just needs a little empathy.

all i can really say jeremy is that your reaction to the particular details you got hung up on are completely your own, and on you.  you and everyone in the world are entitled to react to whatever it is in a movie however you like, but that isn't always the fault of the work itself.  in this instance it's simply a reality of the character that he's a teenage mass-hole jock who is playing around with two girls, and neither of them know about it, or maybe they do.  why is this so far from reality to you is beyond me.  you aren't seeing the woods for the trees.
Title: Re: Manchester by the Sea
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 29, 2017, 05:03:39 PM
Again, I want to emphasize that these are relatively minor complaints. I just find it interesting to talk about them.

as portrayed in the film, there's a lax attitude towards teenagers having sex amongst certain families in manchester

Sure, that's fine. The first girlfriend's parents did not have that attitude, though.

i don't think the scene with the mother "almost catching them" was about that at all.  it's pretty obvious what's going on and she clearly knows, she just isn't going to flip out about it.  kids always think they're getting away with shit that parents can see right through.  this is very true to life to me.

I meant to say "interrupt" rather than "catch." So here's what I was getting at. I sincerely don't understand what she's trying to accomplish by messing with them. The coincidence of her interrupting them to complain about Lee (when they were just about to start) felt way too wacky for this movie.

(The obvious explanation is that she does that to create a funny scene for us.)

If she tacitly approves but is not entirely comfortable with it, why would she be constantly going to her daughter's room to put herself in that uncomfortable situation? Is she grappling with the reality and acting out because she doesn't know what to do? Maybe.

On the other hand, if she is comfortable with them having sex, just leave them alone. Does she get some kind of perverted thrill out of interrupting them? Those scenes are kind of dumb. This is what I'm talking about when I say the first half was perfect and powerful, then the movie wanders and gets less incisive as it experiments.

also patrick's behavior in the wake of his dad's passing is a bit unsettling but also probably very true to life.

I loved many of the scenes with him acting out or freaking out, especially the scene with the freezer. The only behavior of his that actually unsettles me was present before his dad's death (being a pathological liar to his 2 girlfriends). The only thing that solves that is cultural relativism. Which is a perfectly valid choice to make when watching a movie.

your reaction to the particular details you got hung up on are completely your own, and on you.  you and everyone in the world are entitled to react to whatever it is in a movie however you like, but that isn't always the fault of the work itself.

I basically agree. It probably comes down to this: The first half (or even 2/3) is the kind of movie I love and wanted to see. The second part, not as much.