XIXAX Film Forum

The Director's Chair => David Lynch => Topic started by: Xeditor on April 23, 2003, 05:04:36 PM

Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Xeditor on April 23, 2003, 05:04:36 PM
Okay so I consider myself pretty good at understanding hard to understand movies.  With that said, I just got the Mulholland Dr. dvd and started watching it.  Everything was going good up untill the whole blue box thing.  Then I thought I made a come back and started to understand it again until the little people came out of the bag.  From there till the end I was lost.  Can anyone give me a quick explanation?  It hurts to think!
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: xerxes on April 23, 2003, 05:06:38 PM
don't start this again
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Xeditor on April 23, 2003, 06:32:51 PM
Was it already explained?
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: xerxes on April 23, 2003, 09:10:31 PM
every single person on the planet has a different interpretation... that's all
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: MacGuffin on April 23, 2003, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: xerxes
every single person on the planet has a different interpretation... that's all


But only mine is correct.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Duck Sauce on April 23, 2003, 10:58:14 PM
After seeing it the first time, i was just like "What the fuck?" I will admit I didnt get it. So I went online to see peoples interpretations of it (like salon.com) and then went and saw it again and started putting the pieces together with the dreams and what not. Id love to see somebody here break down their interpretation.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on April 23, 2003, 11:38:19 PM
it's all about the nipple.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ©brad on April 24, 2003, 05:31:28 AM
its kind of weird to think about how long ago it was when we had all those mull. dr. debates.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: budgie on April 24, 2003, 07:11:54 AM
Quote from: P
it's all about the nipple.


True.

If we're going to reminisce, I think today is my birthday.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: children with angels on April 24, 2003, 07:36:35 AM
Lynch IS taking the piss with that "David Lynch's 10 clues to unlocking this thriller" list on the DVD, isn't he...? He must be, surely...
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ©brad on April 24, 2003, 08:08:20 AM
nah, I don't think so. Lynch himself has said, in response to all the theories and debate, that the film is much more straight forward that one would think. I dunno, u can think what u want. Those clues made the movie a little more fun I thought, especially when you watch it with friends who don't know about Lynch.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: phil marlowe on April 24, 2003, 09:50:41 AM
its really not that complicated. very simple when you first get the idea. i think the only things debatable is the homeless guy and the blue box.

the rest makes perfect sence. im clever.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on April 24, 2003, 10:07:53 AM
Quote from: cbrad4d
its kind of weird to think about how long ago it was when we had all those mull. dr. debates.


It was around the time that the DVD came out.... those were my longest posts ever...

please don't make me do it again
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Xeditor on April 24, 2003, 11:44:40 AM
Quote from: children with angels
Lynch IS taking the piss with that "David Lynch's 10 clues to unlocking this thriller" list on the DVD, isn't he...? He must be, surely...


What 10 clues??? I have the dvd and didnt see anything.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on April 24, 2003, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: Xeditor
What 10 clues??? I have the dvd and didnt see anything.


David Lynch's 10 Clues to Unlocking This Thriller:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Cecil on April 24, 2003, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: budgie
I think today is my birthday.


is it? have a happy one

as for mulholland drive and every other lynch film.... i dunno, its easy as pie to me.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pedro on April 24, 2003, 11:29:33 PM
Maybe it's the whiskey...but this david lynch business freakin me out man.  The door stareted to close by itsself and such.  Weird...And the banner is D'onfrio from Full Metal Jacket...and that's not too pleaseing either.  Those 10 Clues don't mean crap to me except for the ashtrya robe and drink one...those are the only ones i would find use out of.  I have MulDr. figured out though, now.  So it's all good.  
I pulled up behind a Cadillac;
We were waiting for the light;
And I took a look at his license plate-
It said, "Just Ice."
Is justice just ice?
Governed by greed and lust?
Just the strong doing what they can
And the weak suffering what they must?
And the gas leaks
And the oil spills
And sex sells everything
And sex kills ...

Doctors' pills give you brand new ills
And the bills bury you like an avalanche
And lawyers haven't been this popular
Since Robespierre slaughtered half of France!
And Indian chiefs with their old beliefs know
The balance is undone-crazy ions-
You can feel it out in traffic;
Everyone hates everyone!
And the gas leaks
And the oil spills
And sex sells everything
And sex kills ...

Oh and the tragedies in the nurseries-
Little kids packin' guns to school
The ulcerated ozone
These tumors of the skin-
This hostile sun beating down on
This massive mess we're in!
And the gas leaks
And the oil spills
And sex sells everything
And sex kills ...
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cachilders on April 25, 2003, 10:56:43 AM
The secret to this, and all other Lynch films, is not to get lost in the details. This is one of his more straightforward flicks. Now, if someone can explain the birdman in Wild at Heart, that would be something I'd like to hear.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: phil marlowe on April 25, 2003, 11:01:16 AM
in order to understand mulholland drive you have to think psykological. figure out the caracters out and its, like said, all straightforward.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: chainsmoking insomniac on April 25, 2003, 11:11:50 AM
Okay, let me preface this by saying that I LOVE Lynch's films.  Let me also add that I have to train myself to think metaphysically....call me lazy or whatever you want....
But what and the fuck is with that BOX that changes the whole take on the movie? Do you know what I'm talking about? Up until that point, the movie is quite easy to figure out.  But PLEASE explain that box thing.  

 Sincerely,

    The Moron
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on April 25, 2003, 11:18:50 AM
Quote from: punchdrunk23
But PLEASE explain that box thing.

well, it's like a hole isn't it.

i still think all u need to get is the Club Silencio sequence. that's the dopest part.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ©brad on April 25, 2003, 11:32:37 AM
indeed. can't remember any other scene in recent memory that sent as many chills down my back as that one.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cachilders on April 25, 2003, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: punchdrunk23
what and the fuck is with that BOX that changes the whole take on the movie?


The box is a symbol for the things that are locked away in order for the fantasy to exist. So, the box is denial. The key is more important.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: manvstrees on April 25, 2003, 01:53:18 PM
ok this just KILLS me.
everything you need to know is in the movie.
there is no explanation beyond that.
whatever salon.com article you read is useless.
its supposed to be ambiguous.
you aren't intended to try to figure everything out, so that it makes sense.
just enjoy it.
it makes total sense to me.
but i dont have to know exactly where the aunt went etc.
i think that if you have to try to figure out these little things, you're missing the point.
and it takes away from the movie.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 25, 2003, 01:54:28 PM
someone give this guy a trophy -- bla bla bla
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: manvstrees on April 25, 2003, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtis
someone give this guy a trophy -- bla bla bla


if you give out trophys for people who are so right that it hurts you down near the colon.......yeh.
you should gimmie one.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cachilders on April 25, 2003, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: manvstrees
whatever salon.com article you read is useless.


Which article is that? I agree that the movie contains all of the necessary information, but Lynch has never indicated that his films were meant to be ambiguous. His narratives are certainly odd, but the stories are straightforward and there is intent behind every shot and element. He doesn't confound to confound. Aggressive responses to honest inquiries are useless. It is excellent that you get it, but many people do not.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pastor Parsley on April 30, 2003, 11:26:34 AM
Quote from: P

i still think all u need to get is the Club Silencio sequence. that's the dopest part.


absolutely...it's where it all comes together.

Lynch is great.  the film is very straight forward, but we are so used to our hands being held by the traditional narrative, that when a film comes out that doesn't....we are completely lost.  really, Lost Highway and this film are different spins on the exact same story.

i was reading that when the t.v. execs finally gave mulholland the boot, as a t.v. series, they basically told Lynch that they didn't think audiences were bright enough to get it.  well, if you keep spoon feeding them, they never will be.

i watched mulholland twice before i got it, and then i was embarrassed because it was so obvious.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cachilders on April 30, 2003, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: Pastor Parsley
really, Lost Highway and this film are different spins on the exact same story.


Right on. I was telling my wife the same thing a few days ago, but she didn't believe me.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pastor Parsley on April 30, 2003, 04:24:44 PM
in most films you see the story unfold like you were an observer, watching it all happen.  with Lost highway and mulholland you see the story through the eyes of the main characters.  They don't see the true reality...they see it they way they want to see it....with a little psychosis to make it interesting.  like he says in lost highway "I like to remember things my own way."
SPOILERS
in lost highway, he begins imagining the last half of the film from his prison cell...unable to deal with the reality of what he did.  

in mulholland it's reverse. the first half is a dream, half the way she would have liked it and half reality....the second half is the actual events in a nonlinear format.

it's like lynch either wanted to explore this type of narrative further or he just thought he could do it better.  i think mulholland is more effective than lost highway at what it seemed he was trying to do.  But I loved them both.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: phil marlowe on April 30, 2003, 04:28:32 PM
and thank you for ruining the experience for allmost everyone. i certanly hope you didnt do that just to show off.

so to all of those who like to read threads backward; dont read the post before this one.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: RegularKarate on April 30, 2003, 04:42:09 PM
I tossed a spoiler warning there just for anyone who might not it spelled out like that.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: penfold0101 on May 02, 2003, 06:45:29 AM
I found some useful discussion going on in the news groups.
try doing a google groups search in
alt.movies.david-lynch

There’s a Chap called trichome who really seams to know his shit, he has a lot of cool ideas. Try searching his name as well.

I do find over analysis takes a lot of the fun out of the film, but you do need to look a bit deeper in MD, there are several layers to this.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pastor Parsley on May 06, 2003, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: Phil Marlowe
and thank you for ruining the experience for allmost everyone. i certanly hope you didnt do that just to show off.
Quote


yeah, i did it to show off... aren't you impressed!?!

no, really i didn't mean to ruin it for anyone...........the thread title "Muholland Dr. Explanation" doesn't scream SPOILERS to anyone else but me?
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pedro on May 06, 2003, 06:15:50 PM
Quote from: Pastor Parsley
Quote from: Phil Marlowe
and thank you for ruining the experience for allmost everyone. i certanly hope you didnt do that just to show off.
Quote


yeah, i did it to show off... aren't you impressed!?!

no, really i didn't mean to ruin it for anyone...........the thread title "Muholland Dr. Explanation" doesn't scream SPOILERS to anyone else but me?

It doesn't say Mulholland Dr. and Lost Highway Explanation
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: chainsmoking insomniac on May 06, 2003, 11:18:44 PM
Everybody calm down.  The Pastor explained it so much more succinctly than anyone else had done up to that point, so the clarity was welcome.  

Thank you Pastor.  Now I'm off to watch Mulholland again--through different eyes..... :-D
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: phil marlowe on May 07, 2003, 06:46:22 AM
mulholland drive wasnt made for people to use other peoples explanaitons. the movie is made for you and your consience or whatever to make up the sence as you see it. only you. going in with such an over simplyfied explanation from another viewer will ruin half of the experience.

as for the spoilers thing, i can only say that such thing as to give a spoiler warning is pretty much the only fair thing to do and it takes about one second. and maybe the title 'mulholland drive explanations' was ment in another way than just giving the intire plot away in one sentence. if you had read the thirty repliers previous you, then you might have understood.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pastor Parsley on May 07, 2003, 10:21:26 AM
Quote
It doesn't say Mulholland Dr. and Lost Highway Explanation


good point...sorry.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: chainsmoking insomniac on May 07, 2003, 10:24:54 AM
Hey Marlowe.  Please, shut up.  I get the movie now.  The Good Pastor clarified some shit for me. So please, enough with the high-falootin conceptual shit. Thanks dude. :P
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Sleuth on May 07, 2003, 02:59:57 PM
Seriously, if Lynch wanted Mulholland Drive to be some sort of conceptual shit he would have made the true meaning unclear to where many people can interpret it in many different ways (because it would have been a work of art) but it isn't so SHUT UP
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: phil marlowe on May 07, 2003, 03:41:58 PM
what the fuck? excactly how did i offend you people? i think telling me to shut up is the lamest thing to do. if any of you agressive morans read my post one more time you might get what im saying here:

i dont give a rats ass if you guys want the experience ruined. thats fine. all im asking is for you to just give a fucking spoiler warning before you submit a goddamn post of such a crusial importance. this movie is all about trusting your senses.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Sleuth on May 07, 2003, 04:00:10 PM
Perhaps one day I will find an online community where one can be sarcastic without using " :wink: "  

by the way, it's spelled "moron"
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cowboykurtis on May 07, 2003, 04:50:55 PM
Quote from: tremolosloth
 

by the way, it's spelled "moron"


oooooooooo, you going to take that? what a low blow. god damn, what has the world come to?
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: eward on May 07, 2003, 04:53:13 PM
everybody be friends
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cowboykurtis on May 07, 2003, 06:13:25 PM
lets hold hands and listen to raffi
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: godardian on May 09, 2003, 10:38:15 AM
Mulholland Dr was my favorite movie of 2001... but from what I remembered, even though I saw a "plot" similarity to Lost Highway, I remembered distinctly disliking Lost Highway at the time I saw it, which was years earlier.

Comparing the two, I thought Mulholland had so many emotional layers and an overriding, very moving theme of optimistic dreams vs. desperate reality; never have I had a superimposition make me well up like the one at the end of Mulholland. That's another difference- visually, I thought Mulholland went to the heights of the Lynchian mis en scene- it glowed, it sparkled- whereas Lost Highway felt more like some overdone, pseudo-transgressive Marilyn Manson video.

This is all based on my initial reaction to Lost Highway, though. I'm anxious to see it again, if/when it's released on DVD. But I found Mulholland Dr. to be a far more complete work. In fact, it's one of the most complete-feeling movies I've ever seen; it satisfies in the same way The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover did. Everything feels addressed, if not resolved. I felt Lost Highway, on the other hand, was a little bit self-impressed, coasting a little bit on some abstract "darkness."

Any thoughts on the unfavorable comparison?
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: children with angels on May 09, 2003, 11:22:30 AM
That's interesting: I prefer Lost Highway because, to me, It feels much more complete than Mulholland Drive. The circularity of the plot gives the film a real sense of closure - and yet in no way is it explanitory - it just feels right. I see it partly as a wonderful homage to the movies in general, but particularly to the tradition of the road movie - which it absolutely blows apart.
To me it feels like there are too many different strands in Mulholland which are left as interesting sections: it feels to me to add up to less than the sum of its parts.

The dark mood you talk about in Lost Highway is also what draws me to it: I find it essential to my enjoyment and comprehension of it - it is essentially a mood movie. What makes me preffer it is that it manages to maintain this mood throughout, whereas - towards the end - Mulholland Drive loses its mood (which is very effectively established) through its inspired lunacy (namely: the tiny old people); I stop feeling it right at the end. The final moment of Lost Highway, on the other hand, is intensely powerful and hellish.

However, this opinion could be because I've watched Lost Highway a lot more than Mulholland Drive, and Lynch movies only get better with repeated viewings...
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: SoNowThen on May 09, 2003, 11:26:27 AM
I fully agree (about Lost Highway).
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: MacGuffin on May 09, 2003, 12:19:12 PM
Remember, Mulholland Drive was originally conceived to be a tv series. Lynch had to go back and add additional scenes to turn it into "his" film rather than leave it an open-ended pilot geared for American audiences' living rooms for ratings.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: godardian on May 09, 2003, 01:01:37 PM
I do intend to see it again. I wish they would release that and Wild at Heart on DVD...

Speaking of which, what ever happened to Laura Dern? She was so good in the Lynch stuff, and then I recently got the DVD of Citizen Ruth, and she's so completely different, yet equally great in that- so damn funny!! But then it seemed like all she could get was TV work. I think she's maybe an "underrated" actress, except I can't think of anyone who doesn't like her or at least appreciate her. Maybe "underutilized" is a better word...

I also thought Naomi Watts gave a great performance in Mulholland Dr., and... I dunno, there was just something so much more tender about it. I was intellectually engaged in the big dream-circle of the "plot," of course, but I also felt so much from it... I really felt a sense of loss at the end, after everything came together. Watts made the Diane Selwyn character into something almost like an archetype... I really felt that the different parts of us, as human beings, were being addressed by the film; our ideals, the secret fantasies of victory/success/happiness we all harbor, and then the disappointment of how different and even opposed (and even CRUEL) reality so often is.

I didn't feel like the tiny people ruined the mood... I mean, it was pretty clear to me that they were a psychotic hallucination from the ultra-XCU views and the sounds, etc. They actually sort of creeped me out, like a spider or a rat, small things that move fast and seem to be out to get you. Primal, man.  :shock:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: MacGuffin on May 09, 2003, 01:18:17 PM
Quote from: godardian
I wish they would release that and Wild at Heart on DVD.


First post:
http://xixax.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: children with angels on June 16, 2003, 12:00:52 PM
I watched Mulholland Drive for a second time the other day and, of course, couldn't help but think about all the stuff that had been discussed here (the "explanation" the thread title offers).

When I began to think of it in terms of the ideas that had been given out here, the movie suddenly seemed so simple - and became much more moving than before (I had previously appreciated much more on a mood, atmosphere, imagery level rather than a plot one). The thing is: it almost felt too simple. The beauty for me of a lot of Lynch is that you have to work it out for yourself and make your own interpretation (as has been so consistently argued, sometimes angrily, here...), and when the plot just suddenly came together this time, it was almost like a disappointment. I'm not sure exactly why: I think I need to watch it one more time to make up my mind again fully.

The ending this time really got me emotionally though - as you say, Godardian, the final superimposition is such a beautiful, moving thing when seen in context (previously I had a vague feeling about its significance, but this time it spoke to me more clearly). However, the movie was reduced a little for me to have it sorted out in my mind: it just became a story told in an interesting way (like Egoyan might, do for example - x10 for Lynch, of course), rather than something more illusiory and interesting. I really don't know why it should disappoint me that it became a story that made sense to me, but somehow it did.

I dunno. I'm really not sure of my final opinon. One more watch is needed. I may in fact prefer it to Lost Highway after all (even though I really enjoy the fact that LH, despite an "explanation" in this thread, doesn't come together for me in a way that makes total narrative sense - but more philisophical sense...). It certainly made me feel more this time.

However: I still stand by the silliness of the little old couple. Even though they are fucking freaky too, they make me want to giggle, which is unfortunate.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: budgie on June 16, 2003, 04:33:39 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin
Quote from: godardian
I wish they would release that and Wild at Heart on DVD.


First post:
http://xixax.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45


I went dutifully for my Region 2 on May 12th like I was told, and it's been put back till June 24th!

Starved of new Lynch, and I secretly hate him for denying me the new Eraserhead.

Aww, not really, Dave. How could I?
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: DavTMcGowan on June 17, 2003, 09:00:08 AM
I love this movie so much, and yes I do get it (at least I'm pretty sure I do).  But I have one question that I just can't figure out on my own: what is the lady singing about in the silencio scene.  This is a pretty crucial scene in the film and unfortunately I don't speak whatever language she's singing in.  From my limited knowlegde of every other language in teh world, I've deduced that she's singing about lost love, or something along those lines.  Can anyone provide a text translation?  Am I just digging way to deep into this film?  Sorry, but I love it so much I want to know exactly what she's singing.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Ghostboy on June 17, 2003, 10:06:19 AM
The language is Spanish, the song is Roy Orbison's 'Crying,' and the English translation is:

 I was all right for a while
 I could smile for a while
 Then I saw you last night
 You held my hand so tight
 When you stopped to say hello
 You wished me well
 You couldn't tell that
 I've been crying over you,
 crying over you
 And you said "So long"
 Left me
 standing all alone, alone and crying, crying, crying, crying
 It's hard to understand
 But the touch of your hand can start me crying
 
 I thought that I was over you But it's true, so true
 I love you even more than I did before
 But darling, what can I do?
 For you don't love me
 And I'll always be crying over you, crying over you
 
 Yes now you're gone
 And from this moment on, I'll be crying, crying, crying, crying
 Yeah, crying, crying over you

I was just thinking about how immediately after getting home from the show, when Betty disappears, Rita asks 'where are you' in Spanish. The connections will never end!
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on June 17, 2003, 11:02:13 AM
Quote from: Ghostboy
And I'll always be crying over you, crying over you

I was just thinking about how immediately after getting home from the show, when Betty disappears, Rita asks 'where are you' in Spanish. The connections will never end!

yeah i don't know how ppl could get the last part of the film without speaking spanish,. also i don't know about roy orbison but in the film she says "crying for ur love, crying for your love". for you works too tho.

now i will give u the ultimate meaning of this movie, the truth that will set u free and put an end to this whole debate, the terrifying knowledge that the citizens of springfield were not ready for and which caused them to tell Mark McGwire to sock a few dingers instead of hearing this horrifying information, there is definitely a solution to the riddle, it all comes down to one name, one person who's identity is pivotal to deciphering this most mysterious of secrets, and that person is that guy that oh nevermind.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Sleuth on June 17, 2003, 11:41:51 AM
Did you just rip off my old signature
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on June 17, 2003, 11:47:37 AM
no.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Sleuth on June 17, 2003, 11:53:40 AM
k.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ©brad on June 17, 2003, 02:20:34 PM
godardian, dude, that avatar is waaaaaaaaaaay too big. like for real.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: filmcritic on June 30, 2003, 05:22:14 PM
Many, many, many people want to know what happened at the end of David Lynch's "Mulholland Drive". I did as well, but I just enjoyed it. That's part of the brilliance of Lynch. He loves mysteries and likes it when people have different ideas on things.

I have my own take on the ending though. Personally, I think that the entire movie was Betty remembering what she wished would have happened before she died. By the end, reality kicks in and things fall apart. She wanted to be a glamorous actress but she wasn't. She wanted to always be with Rita, but couldn't. And she eventually commits suicide. The rest of the plot devices people can't explain (the bum, the old lady ["Something bad is happening!"] and other bizarre occurences are simply things that occured with no deep meaning. But that's just me.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Newtron on July 02, 2003, 09:40:11 AM
After years of thinking about this film, here's my final explanation:
































































































































 :yabbse-cry:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: chainsmoking insomniac on July 02, 2003, 10:12:46 AM
How are godardian and cbrad able to put up large avatars? I wanna put up a large avatar!!!!  :cry:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ©brad on July 02, 2003, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: Ghoulardi Goon
How are godardian and cbrad able to put up large avatars? I wanna put up a large avatar!!!!  :cry:


see, the thing is, u got to be cool. consequently, u would have to get cool (which would take a lot in ur case) in order to get a better avatar.
Title: Ok, so here's my $.37 (interpretation) of Mulholland Dr.
Post by: ladysage21 on August 05, 2003, 07:15:06 PM
So...I've seence Mulholland Dr. again for the third time around.  This time, I didn't try to hard in figuring it out and piecing it all together...and then it did!  So sit back, relax, and read on for my personal interpretation of the whole movie.

First things first, everyone is confused about the whole "There are 2 clues that are revealed about the movie even before the credits being to roll."  If you watch closely, you'll notice 1) A jitterbug scene with people dancing and prancing happily while a picturesque, even ghostllike shot of Betty arriving to hollywood as if she was a well known movie star.  This is to allude to Diane winning her jitterbug competition which inspired her to come to hollywood and become a movie star, the movie star status that she dreamed of reaching.  2) The camera opens the door, sees the red satin sheets, staggers onto the bed, and plops itself onto the pillow!  This is Diane, who just came into her room and went to sleep.  What follows in the next 2/3 of the movie is her dream in all its horrendous and magnificent glory.  

The Dream...is it only a dream?
It was a dream full of subconscious underpinnings.  You see all the characters that you see later in the movie.  I'll talk about the timeline of things later, but here's the deal.  Everything that Betty experiences is everything that Diane yearned for herself that she never achieved or never even had: The movie stardom and acting achievement as a lead role (her audition in the dream).  In her dream, Adam has horrible things happen to him, from losing his money to his wife, is everything that Diane wanted to happen to him, especially since he stole her lover, Camilla (Rita).  It shows the ill-will that Diane has against him.  Gosh, there are sooo many other things that happened but I am at a brain clot right now.  So I'll share what I can remember to address but email me if you have something you would like me to address.  Ok, so back to my interpretation.  So Adam is forced by the Hollywood powermen to cast Camilla Rhodes as the lead actress, regardless of whether she has talent or not.  This displays Diane's jealousy towards Camilla (Rita), she felt as if Camilla didn't rightfully earn the lead roles she attained, that she had the people in power helping her (such as Adam himself since he's the director and all).  And a lot of things happen in between that I'm forgetting due to a huge brain clot right now, but let's get to the juicy stuff.  There's the big scene at El Silencio theatre in which la llorona (an allusion to a  fictitious character in Spanish urban myth who kills her children and goes crying, looking for them), sings a Spanish version of Roy Orbison's "Crying" http://www.lyricsdepot.com/roy-orbison/crying.html which explains a lot about how Diane really feels.  

The Waking Moment
And then there is the blue box and it is opened and we zoom out of the pillow into Diane's bedroom.  She wakes up from a loud knocking at her door, which is her neighbor, asking for her stuff back since they had just recently switched apartments.  Her neighbor tells her that it's been 3 weeks and the detectives are still looking for Diane.  Diane then prepares to make coffee, sees Camilla, pushes her out the door, and then goes to make coffee.  She sits down on her couch and sees Camilla in the couch half naked.  Camilla tells her to stop and Diane says "it's because of him (Adam) isn't it?"  Then we still switch back and forth between Diane sitting at the coffee table and her scenes w/ Camilla.  

The Timeline
So here's what I think it all means.  The timeline is important and the time markers (one of the clues to look for) is the coffee cup, the ashtray and the red lamp.  So here is the real timeline when the movie is pieced together.  1) Camilla and Diane's affair, Camilla tells Diane it's over, Diane masterbates cuz she misses Camilla.  If you notice, when the neighbor comes, she takes the ashtray away.  When Camilla is on Diane's couch, topless, the ashtray is still there.  2) The dinner/engagement party.  The red lamp shows up twice in the movie, as phone calls from mobsters and also from Camilla...what a juxtaposition.  3) Diane hires a hitman to kills Camilla with the money she got from her aunt's death.  He says that a blue key will be there once he is done with the deed.  If you notice when the neighbor picks up her stuff, the blue key is also on the coffee table.  4) Camilla is killed.  5) Diane goes to sleep and dreams that 2/3 of the movie. Everyone she saw at the dinner party stayed with her subconssciously and appeared in her dream.   6) She wakes up to her neighbor's knocking on the door.  Her neighbor takes the ashtray and you see the blue key on the table.  This is the present now.  Diane sits there from noon till night, flashing back to thoughts of her, now dead, lover.  7) That same night, she sees the demons creeping out of her blue box (sort of like everyone has a deep little blue box in them which they store their deepest darkest sins and secrets and demons).  The demons (an embodiment of her guilt) come back to haunt her and due to the guilt and agony of it all, she kills herself.  

Ok, so that was my interpretation of that.  I hope this helps somewhat!
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: jokerspath on August 06, 2003, 08:37:22 AM
That's a pretty big first post.  I think its gonna inspire me to watch the film without fastforwarding to the girls.  Consider that a success!

aw
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: mr_boz on August 06, 2003, 02:25:35 PM
i was kind of ticked that the MULHOLLAND DRIVE dvd didn't have chapter stops.  getting to the girls is a little more challenging this way.

 :wink:

-ccb
Title: Re: Ok, so here's my $.37 (interpretation) of Mulholland Dr.
Post by: MacGuffin on August 07, 2003, 06:31:18 PM
Quote from: ladysage21
So...I've seence Mulholland Dr. again for the third time around.  This time, I didn't try to hard in figuring it out and piecing it all together...and then it did!


What's your explanation as to why Cookie is both the hotel manager and the Silencio announcer in Diane's dream? Why does he play dual roles?

(http://www.innergrail.com/mulhollanddrive/md0084.jpg)
(http://www.innergrail.com/mulhollanddrive/md0132.jpg)
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pas on August 07, 2003, 08:21:09 PM
Two things I've found out quite recently...

The lady who played Coco is famous for her books about astrology and hadn't played a role in quite sometime before M.D. ...
The guy pool cleaner is Billy Ray Cirus, a one-hit wonder country singer

What it has to do with anything ? They're almost the only people we don't see in her "real" life, and it's because she knows the characters from their actors actual main career.

It doesn't make anything simpler, but it's fucking cool. And I found that all by myself. God I rule
Title: Re: Ok, so here's my $.37 (interpretation) of Mulholland Dr.
Post by: ladysage21 on August 08, 2003, 01:51:33 AM
Quote from: MacGuffin
What's your explanation as to why Cookie is both the hotel manager and the Silencio announcer in Diane's dream? Why does he play dual roles?


I'm not sure but this is what I think of it.  The Silencio Theatre is definitely the turning point in the movie, and one of the most crucial.  I think the hotel manager plays dual roles to further divide the lines between reality and fiction.  In the silencio theatre, everything is imitated: from the band playing, to the woman singing...maybe even the announcer.  Who's to say that the announcer isn't really the hotel manager acting as an announcer?  I mean, it is an "air theatre" per se in which everything isn't what it seems, and who's singing/acting/playing isn't really an actor/singer/musician. J Just like Betty isn't really Betty, and is really Diane imitating Betty. So yeah.  Sorry if this doesn't make sense to anybody...it's only my opinion.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on August 08, 2003, 01:59:04 AM
it seems u've managed to explain the outline of the film, like the structure, but not the meaning of any characters or even lines for example the cowboy, the twinky's freak-out person, the scary bum behind twinky's, the final line "silencio" said by the blue haired woman.. these are ppl whose roles exist almost outside diane's reality/dream.

u may hav put the film together in an editorial way, but the significance of individual elements, other than arbitrary time-markers, has still gone unanswered.
Title: Re: Ok, so here's my $.37 (interpretation) of Mulholland Dr.
Post by: ©brad on August 08, 2003, 02:06:16 AM
Quote from: MacGuffin

What's your explanation as to why Cookie is both the hotel manager and the Silencio announcer in Diane's dream? Why does he play dual roles?


damn, i never noticed that. i must be slippin in my old age.

the way my room is set up, my closet has a little wall that hides it. anyway, long story not as long, everynow and then i imagine the bum behinds twinky's is gonna pop up behind the wall in my closet, w/ that grin and all the dirt on him. yikes. i cant get the shit outta my head.

i have my own ideas about the bum and whatnot, but its the kinda thing that works better in the brain. its kinda like u have a feeling of whats going on but u cant articulate it well enuf. thats how i feel about the bum.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: MacGuffin on August 08, 2003, 02:21:07 AM
Quote from: ladysage21
I think the hotel manager plays dual roles to further divide the lines between reality and fiction.


But Cookie plays dual roles within her dream (fiction); not one in Diane's dream and one in her reality like all other characters. He would be purely fictional then.

And, hey, cbrad:

(http://www.innergrail.com/mulhollanddrive/md0026.jpg)
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ©brad on August 08, 2003, 08:32:19 AM
aaahhh!! god damn u mac!!!!

*©brad runs in the corner and hides.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: atticus jones on August 13, 2003, 05:48:31 AM
fyi...

i am not even remotely interested in this thread and this is the first time i have ever ventured here...

i remember smoking weed with a friend and watching dune... that was the single longest night of my life...

lesbians help tho
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ladysage21 on August 14, 2003, 08:02:41 PM
Quote from: P
it seems u've managed to explain the outline of the film, like the structure, but not the meaning of any characters or even lines ...
u may hav put the film together in an editorial way, but the significance of individual elements, other than arbitrary time-markers, has still gone unanswered.


Well, frankly, I'm not David Lynch.  The masterpiece of this movie, is that all of the symbolism depends on the audience watching the movie and nobody really knows the true meaning of all of the characters or "individual elements."

And I never said that I knew everything, and I did say that I left a lot of things unanswered.   A lot of people have said that the movie doesn't make any sense at all because nothing fits.  I just wanted to provide one explanation as to how the jigsaw puzzle fits together (sort of like an outline/ bare bones of how the movie works).  The meat of the story is the symbols and mini-stories, which I think are supposed to be open for individual interpretation.  

So please don't make me out to be some Smart Alec Know it All, because I'm not.  I just wanted to share my opinion, not impose them on others.  

...by the way, thank you for the "pseudo-compliments."
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ladysage21 on August 15, 2003, 07:23:51 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin
Quote from: ladysage21
I think the hotel manager plays dual roles to further divide the lines between reality and fiction.


But Cookie plays dual roles within her dream (fiction); not one in Diane's dream and one in her reality like all other characters. He would be purely fictional then.



Sorry, you're right.  I meant to say "blur" the lines.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ShanghaiOrange on October 12, 2003, 12:45:20 AM
I just saw this movie. It was stupid because it didn't make any sense.  :roll:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: freakerdude on October 19, 2003, 11:54:34 AM
Ladysage21, did you happen to post your comments on IMDB?

Anyway, that was a great insight for anyone who wasn't quite sure how the movie may be tied together. I tend to think that the relationship was purely fantasy on Betty/Diane's part. The first sex scene occurred during her dream of Hollywood. You know she's dreaming when the sun is shining, she is smiling, and everything is so gleeful. The last sex scene was where Camilla suddenly appears as Diane is making coffee.....only to disappear and re-appear again on the couch. The ashtray is there but not the key, but again, it's her fantasizing about Camilla the whole time, IMO.  

So did they actually even have sex? I never saw anything indicating they did but we did know that Betty/Diane fantasized about her. The hard core masturbation scene has some relevance, IMO. What is your take on that scene? Here's the thread that someone started for me:
http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=4079

I still don't see anything relevant about clue #9 "the occurrences surrounding the man behind Winkie's".
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Mia Wallace on February 22, 2004, 05:51:01 PM
I've pretty much put every single piece of the Mulholland Drive puzzle together. If you have any questions then just ask.

This movie makes Vanilla Sky look like shit... Thats how good it is.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ono on February 22, 2004, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: Mia Wallace
I've pretty much put every single piece of the Mulholland Drive puzzle together. If you have any questions then just ask.

Why don't you just start talking, and we'll tell you when we've heard enough?  That is, post your thoughts instead of asking for questions like you're some sort of expert on the film.  The consensus among thousands of film geeks seems to be pretty much that there is no one interpretation of the film, and that's why it appeals to so many.
Quote
This movie makes Vanilla Sky look like shit... Thats how good it is.

Actually, that's not something for a film to brag about.  It's not that big an accomplishment.  You've heard of Abre los ojos, right?
Title: [img]http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/.jpg[/img]
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on February 28, 2004, 01:11:06 AM
I guess this a good time to resurrect my theory from C&C, with pictorial support.

DISCLAIMERS:
Do not read this if you haven't seen the movie.
I'm not sure I believe the puzzle can be entirely solved.
I'm not claiming this was Lynch's intention.

So here's the theory:

The dream is Diane's creation, but Rita is having the dream. Betty is Diane's ghost. Her purpose is to fix the mess she helped create before her death... to alleiviate Rita's guilt, put the world back together for her in a manipulated frame, and bring her back to full consciousness.

Diane isn't falling asleep in the first red pillow scene.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/01.jpg)
She's dying.

(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/02.jpg)
Rita falls asleep for the first time.

CUT TO:

Rita's dream begins.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/03.jpg)
Surreal and almost absurd.

Rita falls asleep again, under Aunt Ruth's kitchen table.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/04.jpg)

CUT TO:

Rita's dream continues...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/05.jpg)
...with the Winkie's story, even more surreal.

CUT TO:

Rita, still asleep.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/06.jpg)

CUT TO:

Mr. Roque introduced.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/07.jpg)

Up to this point, Rita's visions have been pretty vague, unconnected, and entirely non-poigniant. They must be shaped to mean something.

Enter Betty, precisely when Diane (chronologically) would have killed herself.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/08.jpg)

After Betty has met Rita and has becomed concerned about her...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/09.jpg)
...she puts Rita to sleep, placing her hand on her forehead, infusing a dream directly into her head

CUT TO:

Adam Kesher's story begins.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/10.jpg)

This is the real beginning of Rita's detailed dreams. A completely absurd and overelaborate conspiracy is blamed for Camilla's success, and indirectly, Diane's dejection... when it was really Camilla's fault. History is rewritten, and Rita's guilt is gone.

CUT TO:

Just a reminder, Rita is still sleeping/dreaming...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/11.jpg)
...and Betty touches her forehead again.

CUT TO:

Mr. Roque's story continues...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/12.jpg)
...this time with more detail, and a connection to Adam's story & the larger conspiracy.

CUT TO:

The Black Book...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/13.jpg)
...with reference to the car crash and the conspiracy.

Rita wakes up.

Betty encourages Rita to find her identity.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/14.jpg)

Betty points out the waitress' name (even saying it slowly and clearly)...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/15.jpg)
...thus getting Rita to remember the name "Diane."

Betty gets Rita to help her practice her lines in an angry scene...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/16.jpg)
...deliberately giving Rita a glimpse of Diane.

Adam sees a ghost...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/17.jpg)
...then agian, he's not really there either.

Betty encourages Rita to fear conspirators.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/18.jpg)

Rita tries to stop Betty from knocking...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/19.jpg)
...but you can tell from the look on Betty's face that she knows more than we think.

"I guess you're not Diane Selwin"...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/20.jpg)
...pushing her further towards an identity.

When Rita sees Diane's body...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/21.jpg)
...Betty's purpose is not to be shocked, but to support & expose Rita.

Diane holds Rita's hand...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/22.jpg)
...and Rita starts saying "silencio"...

Diane gives the blue box to Rita...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/23.jpg)
...(Rita does not discover it.)

Right before Rita opens the box, Betty disappears...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/24.jpg)
...because she is no longer needed.

As Diane pushes her out...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/25.jpg)
...Camilla's guilt is obvious.

In some of the last moments of her public life, Diane collects characters.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/26.jpg)



And finally, Adam's hair changes in the middle of the party scene--

(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/adamhair.jpg)
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on February 28, 2004, 03:30:27 AM
..and that is how a mind is blown.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: phil marlowe on February 28, 2004, 03:51:23 AM
jeremy blackman that was a really really good read, you just inspired me to sit down and watch the movie right now.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: mogwai on February 28, 2004, 04:05:32 AM
jb inspired me to buy a blonde wig.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: modage on February 28, 2004, 12:23:28 PM
he inspired me to change my hair in the middle of a party.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: MacGuffin on February 28, 2004, 12:38:13 PM
I still say the hair change was just a continuity error; one scene was from the original pilot and the other is from reshoots many months later.
Title: Re: [img]http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/.jpg[/img]
Post by: NEON MERCURY on February 28, 2004, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman

(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/20.jpg)



voluptuous=Laura  in a red shirt

good read JB.....
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: freakerdude on March 03, 2004, 08:40:44 PM
most definitely well done JB.......I too will be watching this again soon from your post.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: NEON MERCURY on March 12, 2004, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin

(http://www.innergrail.com/mulhollanddrive/md0026.jpg)


..i just noticed/thought of something.after watching my beautiful copy of eraserhead the other night i have noticed:

the bum in mulholland drive is similar looking to that guy in eraserhead that pushes all the handles....and that they both "control" the acts of the characters in mulhjolland dr. and eraserhead....well, that is my deep thougth of today.its friday and its time to get drunk on cheap beer and pretend that i actually have a life.......its fun to get drunk and reach that point of drunkeness that you think your someone else....anyway, if someone could do a favor and post a "swell" pic of the lever pulling guy in eraserhead for comparitive purposes i(NEON) would be happy to see it.........it could help prove my point or it could make me look like a phucking idiot....either way i'm getting drunk.........   :wink:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: MacGuffin on March 12, 2004, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
the bum in mulholland drive is similar looking to that guy in eraserhead that pushes all the handles....and that they both "control" the acts of the characters in mulhjolland dr. and eraserhead...anyway, if someone could do a favor and post a "swell" pic of the lever pulling guy in eraserhead for comparitive purposes i(NEON) would be happy to see it.........it could help prove my point or it could make me look like a phucking idiot....


Well, while you're out getting drunk, I'm home (as usual) on a Friday night to make these caps for you. Look at them after your hangover, or maybe they will cure one:

(http://www.angelfire.com/film/macguffin0/eraserhead1.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/film/macguffin0/eraserhead2.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/film/macguffin0/eraserhead3.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/film/macguffin0/eraserhead4.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/film/macguffin0/eraserhead5.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/film/macguffin0/eraserhead6.jpg)
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 12, 2004, 10:36:33 PM
SPOILERS  :!:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: NEON MERCURY on March 13, 2004, 12:28:08 PM
Mac.!!!!!!!!!!.....thanks.........!!!

i  do  see the similarity......
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Myxo on March 17, 2004, 09:59:54 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin
I still say the hair change was just a continuity error; one scene was from the original pilot and the other is from reshoots many months later.


Who says he didn't intend it that way? Lynch has strange ways of fucking with his audience.

Also, I noticed that this guy looks an aweful lot like the guy sitting down in this sequence.

(http://www.innergrail.com/mulhollanddrive/md0026.jpg)

(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/13.jpg)

Take a look at the nose especially. I always thought they were the same person somehow. I'm not sure how/if that changes anything.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: penfold0101 on March 19, 2004, 08:03:53 AM
Quote from: Myxomatosis

Also, I noticed that this guy looks an awful lot like the guy sitting down in this sequence.



The Bum is a Lady, her real name is  Bonnie Aarons  (http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm0007491/)

Am i the only one sad enough to sit through the credits?

From what i know of Lynch it was all done with a purpose. But WHAT!

probably er...... Hollywood’s destruction of aspiring actresses, from what i hear they often turn into crazy bums!  :wink:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ono on March 19, 2004, 10:39:51 AM
BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!?!?!
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on March 19, 2004, 10:52:22 AM
(http://ourworld.cs.com/brazilnutfox/mulholland/images/bluelady.jpg)

i'd rather not put it into words.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: NEON MERCURY on March 19, 2004, 12:25:48 PM
Quote from: Pubrick
(http://ourworld.cs.com/brazilnutfox/mulholland/images/bluelady.jpg)

i'd rather not put it into words.


hmm........... :idea: Aunt ruth!
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: bonanzataz on March 20, 2004, 12:25:24 AM
?????


aunt ruth had pretty "red" hair.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Myxo on March 20, 2004, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: taz.
?????

aunt ruth had pretty "red" hair.


Hey. Yer chin is below frame.

:(
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Lambdacism on March 20, 2004, 06:28:32 PM
Quote from: Myxomatosis
Hey. Yer chin is below frame.


it has fallen into his unconscious
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: 03 on September 13, 2004, 06:28:13 PM
i don't know which mdr. thread to put this in, but at 2:14:29 is that espresso in Diane's mug?
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: ©brad on September 14, 2004, 05:12:47 PM
i think my head just exploded.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Gabe on March 23, 2005, 10:50:11 PM
I don't get it
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: cine on March 23, 2005, 11:00:08 PM
AGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/size]
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Gabe on March 24, 2005, 01:08:43 AM
:shock:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Fernando on August 18, 2005, 01:14:25 PM
I was just checking some things I have in my pc at home and found a really cool interview of Lynch made at the now defunct site Mr. Showbiz, maybe some of you never got the chance to read it.


Weird is the word from the director of Mulholland Drive.
by Jane Wollman Rusoff


When David Lynch kicked off his career with a one-minute animated movie of six men barfing, who knew he'd become America's premier avant-garde filmmaker? Now the auteur of surreal, often disturbing films like Eraserhead and Blue Velvet presents what is perhaps his most cryptic work yet.

Mulholland Drive is a noir mystery about love and murder in Hollywood that Lynch had originally intended as a television pilot. Once ABC turned it down, he reworked it into an erotic thriller, premiered it at Cannes, and took home the festival's Best Director Award. Lynch is quite content to discuss this saga, as well as his other work, but an examination of his personal life is mostly off-limits.

Twice divorced, his companion for the last nine years has been Mary Sweeney, Mulholland Drive's editor and co-producer, with whom he has a nine-year-old boy. His previous marriages resulted in two children, one of whom, Jennifer Chambers Lynch, directed Boxing Helena.

When Mr. Showbiz chatted with Lynch, we found him to be far from weird and eccentric. Instead, he was friendly, upbeat, and more than willing to provide a peek into his singularly creative mind — although the conversation can get a little bizarre. After all, this is a guy who went to Bob's Big Boy every day at the same time for seven years straight.

Are you as moody as your films?

No, I'm pretty much always happy.

Then what's up with your movies?

I like to go to different places mentally, but not physically.

Was the lesbianism in Mulholland Drive in the TV pilot?

It's difficult for me to answer that. Some things are implied. It's not good for audiences to focus on what was in one thing and what was in another. Looking back, I feel it's always wanted to be this way. But as to which idea came first, I don't even remember.

Did you audition lots a of actresses for the two key roles in Mulholland Drive?

I pick people by looking at a still photo first. Then I either meet them or see them just talking on video. I never ever ask anybody to read a scene. I get a feeling from looking at their eyes and hearing them talk. Eventually, of course, I meet with them, and that reinforces a feeling or cancels it out. Usually it reinforces it. You have to try to find the right person for that role, and it's just through talking, mainly, that it happens.

How much is Mulholland Drive open to interpretation?

All things are. But for me, [the film] is very specific. But it doesn't do any good for me to say what I think it is. It's so beautiful to see something and make up your own mind — as with the films that I love. That's one of the beautiful things about film. It can tell abstractions and allow you to come up with your own meanings.

Which movies do you love?

I was thinking about Fellini's 8-l/2. You can look at that many, many times and get different things from it. It makes some people crazy, but that's what I love.

Mulholland Drive is very surreal, too.

There are some interesting things to think about, but it all does make sense. [However], if anyone can help me figure it out, that would be beautiful. [Laughs]

What is your intention when you make a film? To evoke feelings? To make people think?

The only thing behind it is ideas. I don't know where they come from, but I have a feeling there's an ocean of ideas out there; and sometimes if we're lucky, we catch some and fall in love with them. Then our job is to stay true to that idea and translate it into one medium or another. In this case, it's film.

When you get an idea, do you rush to write it down?

Yes, otherwise you'll forget. Sometimes ideas start with just a little fragment, so that fragment is very precious. It's just something that really gets you excited. It comes with a little piece of electricity. It becomes like a magnet and draws the other pieces of the puzzle, and then you suddenly see a story forming. If you're lucky.

Do you write your ideas down on any old paper at hand?

I put them on little scraps, and then try to keep tabs on them. Sometimes when I'm searching for stuff, I'll just go through the scraps I've saved. You never know if one is going to jump out and the time will be right for it.

Is that what happened with Mulholland Drive?

This movie came in many pieces, and it was a strange route that tricked my mind. It started as a TV pilot, and then it changed. But the only way it could change was with a new influx of ideas. And one night, I sat down and these ideas came to me. That was the most thrilling part because it changed from an open-ended thing to a closed piece.
Originally there were many more things going on that were just threads, which had no end. So everything that we'd done up to then had to be restructured and thought about in a completely different way.

You once said, "Life is very complicated, and so films should be allowed to be, too."

When you go around in the street or in your house, things are one way on the surface, but we feel so much more. Those feelings are captured and worked on by intuition. We don't worry about not understanding everything going on around us. But with films, [people have] this kind of thing where they want to contain everything and have a narrow interpretation. But things can be exciting if there are abstractions. The language of film is so beautiful telling abstractions.

Should I conclude that when you make a movie, the chief goal is getting your story out versus having a big commercial hit?

I would love if people went to see Mulholland Drive in droves. I would love to make a commercial picture, but what's more important is to make a picture you believe in.

Do you pay attention to what critics say?

No. I would pay attention to constructive criticism, [but] now reviews are fast and furious, and not too deep. So, it's a danger to expose yourself to it.

But when you release a movie, you do expose yourself, don't you?

The movie is finished when it comes out; and after that, you can't control one thing that happens in terms of how well or badly it's going to go over. So it's a very painful process to bring out a film. The beauty is in the work.

What would winning an Oscar mean to you?

When you do your work, you should focus on that and enjoy the doing. As they say, keep your eye on the doughnut, not on the hole. The doughnut is the work.

People find recurring themes in your movies. Why do you like to repeat themes?

It's like women. Some men like brunettes; but once in a while, for some odd reason, they'll fall in love with a blonde or redhead. The ideas I fall in love with might have certain similarities or things that unite them, but that's really not anything to think about. Each movie is its own thing because each is different, even if there are similarities.

But you are fond of writing about death and eroticism.

I like the high and the low. Contrast is a beautiful thing, and you can't just tell a straight line. Always there are curves and ups and downs, and forces opposed. That's what makes stories something to fall in love with.

You used to go to one of the Bob's Big Boy coffee shops in Los Angeles every single day. Do you still go?

For seven years I went every afternoon at 2:30. I'd have a chocolate shake and coffee, and I'd try to catch ideas and write them on napkins. I caught many ideas at Bob's. But one day, I crawled into the trash bin behind Bob's and read the ingredients of what I'd been having, and I had to give it up. I didn't recognize anything! So, now I just make it a once a year thing and have the Big Boy [burger] combo. I love Bob's food!

You appeared in your feature, Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me and sometimes on the TV series. Do you like to act?

I love to act, but I'm a very bad actor. It's so difficult. It's a great experience for directors to go in front of the camera sometimes. It gives you a whole new appreciation of what actors do.

Who are the directors you admire?

Many, many. But I love Fellini and Bergman and Hitchcock, Billy Wilder, Stanley Kubrick, Jacques Tati.

And your other favorite movies besides 8½?

Persona and Hour of the Wolf by Bergman. Rear Window is one of my all-time favorite films. Sunset Boulevard, The Apartment, Mon Oncle, Mr. Hulot's Holiday. And every film Stanley Kubrick ever made. And I like Stroszek by Werner Herzog.

I understand you attended art school as a young man. What were your aspirations?

I wanted to be a painter, you bet.

So how did you get into filmmaking?

I was doing a painting at the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts, and all of a sudden, I saw it move and I heard a sound. I thought, well, that's interesting, how can I make this painting move and have sound [even more]? That led to animating it. I didn't know anything about it, but I rented a camera and built a sculptured screen. I presented the film at the experimental painting and sculpture contest at the end of the school year, 1967.

What did the painting show?

Six men getting sick.

You mean vomiting?

Yes.

That's an unusual subject!

I understand, but that's what it was.

They were being sick, and that was the movement you saw in the painting?

Yes. It took forty-five seconds or so before they did actually get sick. It was building up to that.

I see. Were you, by chance, high at the time?

No, no, no. I've never taken any drugs except marijuana. My friends told me not to take drugs ever. I didn't really like marijuana too much. I've maybe taken it seven times in my whole life. Like, once in a while I've had beets. You know what I mean? But I don't eat too many beets, and I haven't eaten beets for a long time. I like coffee, and I smoke cigarettes.

Do you still paint?

Very bad, crude, really pitiful paintings.

Abstract?

Sometimes. Lately they've been getting little figures in there. It's a personal thing.

What medium do you use?

I paint in mixed media. [Laughs] I use a lot of glue, tile cement, polyester resin, cotton, gauze. Sometimes I set fire to parts of the paintings. I paint outdoors, and the sunlight also helps me because it cooks certain things. Water and fire and dust and smoke are tools of painting.

Do you go to the movies much?

Sometimes when you're in the middle of something, you don't want to go off on another thing. I've been working on an Internet site[davidlynch.com] for two years. We hope to launch soon. The Internet is the future. It's like having your own television and radio stations.

What's planned for your site?

A lot of experiments, a couple of new series in streaming video. The [video] quality of the Internet is pretty bad. But the quality of things influences ideas. So there are some ideas that can be told in bad quality; and in a way, bad quality is extremely beautiful. Like, the early films had their own mood and feeling.

What else will your site have?

I'm going to recycle my comic strip, "The Angriest Dog in the World," and there'll be some of my paintings.

Will Twin Peaks be up?

Probably not. I don't own it. I don't know who owns it anymore. It's a sad thing. It's so complicated. This town is cut up and sewn back together with legal problems.

You must be proud of being an Eagle Scout. It's the only personal item you have on your press kit bio other than being born in Missoula, Montana.

I put being an Eagle Scout on my resume for my father.

What are your memories of being a Scout?

When I was 15, I was asked, because I was an Eagle Scout, to be an usher at the inauguration of President Kennedy. That day was my birthday also. A Secret Service man let me stand right next to him as the limos came out of the gate to the White House. It was something!

They asked you to be an usher because as an Eagle Scout, you were a fine, upstanding boy?

Yeah. All Eagle Scouts are fine, upstanding boys. When I was real little, the Scouts were a great thing. Then it became very uncool, and I didn't want to stay with it. But I did.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on August 18, 2005, 02:09:29 PM
haha, i love lynch's interviews. i just wanna hug the guy. :shock:

he talks like english is his second language, like a foreigner speaks english. fluent but with limited vocabulary, over-explaining sumtimes, half-explaining others.

anyway, quote highlights:

-And every film Stanley Kubrick ever made.
-you bet.
-and all of a sudden, I saw it move and I heard a sound. I thought, well, that's interesting
-But one day, I crawled into the trash bin behind Bob's and read the ingredients of what I'd been having
-I've never taken any drugs except marijuana.
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: mogwai on August 18, 2005, 02:15:03 PM
i hope he makes a full length movie of "six men getting sick". the suspense would be unreal! :shock:
Title: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 19, 2005, 11:48:42 PM
Quote from: Fernando

For seven years I went every afternoon at 2:30. I'd have a chocolate shake and coffee, and I'd try to catch ideas and write them on napkins. I caught many ideas at Bob's. But one day, I crawled into the trash bin behind Bob's and read the ingredients of what I'd been having, and I had to give it up. I didn't recognize anything! So, now I just make it a once a year thing and have the Big Boy [burger] combo. I love Bob's food!



hahaha...that was the funniest shit i have ever read from lynch...oh man.....this guy is the best.........
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: DBeyond on April 25, 2013, 09:23:36 AM
Well I happened to re-watch the film and, basically, I think Lynch really fooled us by a LONG SHOT.

In the end of INLAND EMPIRE, in the mansion with the crippled lady that says "Sweeeeet", LEHarring (Camilla) appears. I always though, isn't that funny ? Because Naomi Watts (Diane) should be there too, or even alone.  I always thought this because of the explanations most people had, that it was all about Diane and etc...

I think Lynch in a way told us: you guys are wrong.

[Please note, this is only my impression of what most people thought about the movie, me included - if for you it was always about Camilla, great, good fortune to you]

It's pretty simple actually and in a way it's in the 10 clues the man gave. He may be a joker but he's always VERY HONEST, I really think he has a strict artistic integrity - which is rare nowadays, I think, I believe.

But lets put this in topics and keep it simple, what I noticed in this watch of the film:

- Rita/Camilla speaks SPANISH. Notice the dinner conversation (in the end of the film) at Adam's House. When they say something in spanish "luigi something" (when referring to the film The Sylvia North Story). Notice that CLub Silencio is SPANISH and that RDRio sings a Roy Orbison song IN SPANISH. Also note the guy from the Hotel, where Adam goes after the pink paint incident, speaks SPANISH "Oye Carnal" (he says) and he also reappears at Club Silencio.

- Lynch said in one of the clues, most people didn't saw this (I think): 6 - Notice the robe, the ashtray, the coffee cup.
   The ROBE, notice the ROBE when Betty goes to tell Rita that her Aunt doesn't know her! The ROBE HAS PINK PAINT ON IT!!
  The coffee cup appears at Winkies and at the apartment, but more on this part later. Also notice in the 2nd Restaurant(Pinky's) the GIANT SLOGAN "MADE SPECIAL TO PINKY's" (Lynch does a shot of this, full size, you can't miss this) In fact it appears before the scene where the BLUE VAN appears for the 2nd time, and the sign is saying "FOR PINKY'S ONLY"

- Note that when Rita's sleeping in the beg of the film, beneath the table where aunt Ruth picks up the keys. Is the first appearance of the hobo lady. To me this is Camilla and this is why in the end of the film she lets the "old people loose".

- Notice that Rita, doesn't KNOW who she is.

- Notice that Rita wears a blonde wig and then Look's EXACTLY like Diane/Betty and she ENTERS the Blue Box wearing that wig, and surprise, surprise she wakes up being Diane :)

For me this is evidence that the film is about Camilla (mainly).

Notice also that DEAD PEOPLE don't Dream. So Diane didn't really shot herself, Camilla did AND Diane was so upset/depressed/unbalanced about this that she RELIVED what Camilla went though in way...

So you guys are right, the beg is Diane Dream, in fact everything is Diane S. dream. She never wakes up, she just finds the rabbit hole(blue box) in it.

- That's why the DEAD BODY has a dark dress (like Rita after the accident, running in the street in the beg of the film) and has DARK HAIR.

- The Cowboy is like the Mystery Man in Lost Highway, a walker of worlds (inside the MIND) a sort of conscience if you like.

Title: Re: [img]http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/.jpg[/img]
Post by: SamFZGames on January 20, 2014, 09:06:43 AM
I guess this a good time to resurrect my theory from C&C, with pictorial support.

DISCLAIMERS:
Do not read this if you haven't seen the movie.
I'm not sure I believe the puzzle can be entirely solved.
I'm not claiming this was Lynch's intention.

So here's the theory:

The dream is Diane's creation, but Rita is having the dream. Betty is Diane's ghost. Her purpose is to fix the mess she helped create before her death... to alleiviate Rita's guilt, put the world back together for her in a manipulated frame, and bring her back to full consciousness.

Diane isn't falling asleep in the first red pillow scene.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/01.jpg)
She's dying.

(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/02.jpg)
Rita falls asleep for the first time.

CUT TO:

Rita's dream begins.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/03.jpg)
Surreal and almost absurd.

Rita falls asleep again, under Aunt Ruth's kitchen table.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/04.jpg)

CUT TO:

Rita's dream continues...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/05.jpg)
...with the Winkie's story, even more surreal.

CUT TO:

Rita, still asleep.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/06.jpg)

CUT TO:

Mr. Roque introduced.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/07.jpg)

Up to this point, Rita's visions have been pretty vague, unconnected, and entirely non-poigniant. They must be shaped to mean something.

Enter Betty, precisely when Diane (chronologically) would have killed herself.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/08.jpg)

After Betty has met Rita and has becomed concerned about her...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/09.jpg)
...she puts Rita to sleep, placing her hand on her forehead, infusing a dream directly into her head

CUT TO:

Adam Kesher's story begins.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/10.jpg)

This is the real beginning of Rita's detailed dreams. A completely absurd and overelaborate conspiracy is blamed for Camilla's success, and indirectly, Diane's dejection... when it was really Camilla's fault. History is rewritten, and Rita's guilt is gone.

CUT TO:

Just a reminder, Rita is still sleeping/dreaming...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/11.jpg)
...and Betty touches her forehead again.

CUT TO:

Mr. Roque's story continues...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/12.jpg)
...this time with more detail, and a connection to Adam's story & the larger conspiracy.

CUT TO:

The Black Book...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/13.jpg)
...with reference to the car crash and the conspiracy.

Rita wakes up.

Betty encourages Rita to find her identity.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/14.jpg)

Betty points out the waitress' name (even saying it slowly and clearly)...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/15.jpg)
...thus getting Rita to remember the name "Diane."

Betty gets Rita to help her practice her lines in an angry scene...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/16.jpg)
...deliberately giving Rita a glimpse of Diane.

Adam sees a ghost...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/17.jpg)
...then agian, he's not really there either.

Betty encourages Rita to fear conspirators.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/18.jpg)

Rita tries to stop Betty from knocking...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/19.jpg)
...but you can tell from the look on Betty's face that she knows more than we think.

"I guess you're not Diane Selwin"...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/20.jpg)
...pushing her further towards an identity.

When Rita sees Diane's body...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/21.jpg)
...Betty's purpose is not to be shocked, but to support & expose Rita.

Diane holds Rita's hand...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/22.jpg)
...and Rita starts saying "silencio"...

Diane gives the blue box to Rita...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/23.jpg)
...(Rita does not discover it.)

Right before Rita opens the box, Betty disappears...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/24.jpg)
...because she is no longer needed.

As Diane pushes her out...
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/25.jpg)
...Camilla's guilt is obvious.

In some of the last moments of her public life, Diane collects characters.
(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/26.jpg)



And finally, Adam's hair changes in the middle of the party scene--

(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/adamhair.jpg)

Hey Jeremy, I love this interpretation, though I personally don't think it's the 'correct' one. I believe the most common theory of Diane dreaming of being Betty to escape her guilt for putting a hit out on Camilla is the actual true explanation as there's so much evidence for it in the movie. Your interpretation, however, is super cool, and I like the clues you've used here too, I just think that the clues to the more popular theory are bigger, more prominent and more common.

I'd love to see an amateur editor create a cut which puts Mulholland Drive's events into chronological order.

Psychoalanyst Jaques Lacan (apparently an inspiration to David Lynch, so I've read, I could do with having this confirmed though) once wrote: "Suppose you're dreaming about yourself disguised as your desired self/other and you open a box with a key to find only darkness, your dream will collapse, and you'll wake up to find your real self. That's the situation as it occurs in dreams. But when you're not dreaming, and you open that same box, your psychosis has just killed you.", this works strongly with the theory I subscribe to but this is also really interesting when applied to your idea, considering Rita becomes literally disguised as Betty towards the end of the dream.

To quote the interview above:

Quote
All things are. But for me, [the film] is very specific. But it doesn't do any good for me to say what I think it is. It's so beautiful to see something and make up your own mind — as with the films that I love. That's one of the beautiful things about film. It can tell abstractions and allow you to come up with your own meanings.

I think that's the key isn't it, there's nothing to stop us each interpreting it differently, but I personally think that the "Diane is dreaming" explanation is the one that Lynch believes in.

A friend and I talked a lot about Mulholland Drive and came up with a cool explanation for the man behind Winkie's.

I had always seen it as just another way to confirm that, at that point in the film, we're currently in a dream. When they go and look behind the restaurant the only reason the man would truly be there is because we're still in of a dream. I still believe this to be the reason behind the scared man's dialogue and explanation of his recurring dream, and then it coming true, but my friend pointed out that the man lives behind the same restaurant where Diane ordered the hit in real life. Based on this we both came to the conclusion that the man behind Winkie's is Diane's regret/guilt, personified in her dream as an ogre/monster. This is why the scared man "never wants to see that face outside of the dream", why he appears to be sort of "controlling" things, and why it's him who lets the old couple hallucination out of the box at the end. He's the thing she can't escape from.

For one thing, we know that the man behind Winkie's is actually a woman, since 'he' is played by an actress. Considering Lynch doesn't just tend to hire a woman to play a man for no reason, I think this helps to support the idea.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 29, 2014, 12:00:20 PM
The "Diane's dream" explanation makes sense at first, but it really breaks down for me when I start to think it through. It seems to leave many more loose ends.

Under this theory, why is so much of the film about Betty helping Rita find her identity? Why does she go through all of that in such a knowing way, giving Rita a few potent glimpses of Diane, pointing out the "Diane" nametag? Is this all misdirection by the film? Why does Betty clearly know so much, if this is just her delusional dream?

I also don't think this "dream" does much of anything to alleviate Diane's guilt. The casting conspiracy etc. shifts blame away from Rita, not Diane. I could be forgetting or missing something, but I'm not aware of anything in the dream that would actually assuage Diane's guilt. Whereas there's a long list of things that would assuage Rita's guilt.

I suppose the "dream" itself (that she's helping Rita etc.) could alleviate Diane's guilt, but there's not much internal detail supporting that sentiment. What is supposedly Diane's dream is filled with so much content that has so little to do with Diane's guilt.

I think we should also consider that "Diane's guilt" is a lot more complex than that. It might even be more heartbrokenness and depression than guilt.

It seems that the real imperative (supported by the bulk of the narrative) is to fix Camilla's broken situation, to right that wrong in a practical and meaningful way.

If it's all Diane's dream, why would Diane disappear at the point of Rita's self-actualization? It would be very hard to convince me that we're still in "Diane's dream" at that point.

Finally, I think I have a problem with just how much of the film is just a dream if you adopt the conventional "Diane's dream" theory. It's kind of silly and, for me, massively less meaningful.

There are just so many problems with it for me. Why is Rita clearly dreaming within it? Rita dreams the Winkie's scene and the first conspiracy scene before Betty even arrives. From that very first time that Rita falls asleep, it's screamingly obvious that this is Rita's dream. And yet Diane's dream envelops all of that? It's just kind of dumb. What content in the film would even be outside of Diane's dream?
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: SamFZGames on February 05, 2014, 10:59:27 AM
Man, I'm enjoying this.

Please don't think I'm shooting down your interpretation, it's awesome, but if you'll allow me I'd like to point you to the moments which, for me, completely confirm the popular "Diane is dreaming" explanation. I also want to explain why I think this explanation has a HUGE amount of meaning.

I don't know if the timing is the same on the Region A Blu-Ray or Region 1 DVD, but on my Region B Blu-Ray, what I believe to be the most important scene in the film occurs at 1h56. Once everything has fallen apart, and characters have disappeared one after another, and here's where I think it's incredibly revealing.

First off, the movie fades between Diane's room and Betty's room a couple of times. The cowboy walks into Diane's room and says "Time to wake up". While this is happening, watch the way the film fades in and out from black, it almost "blinks". The way it fades in and out of Betty's room to Diane's and the way Diane's room fades in and out from black uncannily resembles the way we gradually open and close our eyes as we wake up from a dream. The repeated knocking at the door woke her up. The glitzy, glammy Hollywood feel of the film totally disappears after this point.

Her neighbour was the cause of the knocking. When she comes in, one of the biggest clues of the movie is shown. Her neighbour reclaims her PIANO ASHTRAY. It's a very unusual ashtray for a reason. So you notice it. She has a quick vision of Camilla being back in the room (she's starting to see things, she's going mad) and after that passes she makes a coffee. "Pay attention to the ashtray, the gown and the coffee cup" was one of Lynch's 10 clues. Once she walks over to the couch, the GOWN becomes a pair of cut-offs, the COFFEE CUP becomes a glass of booze, and the PIANO ASHTRAY is back on the table where it was before. The camera lingers on the all important ashtray, because this is the movie's way of saying "THIS HAPPENED BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF THE FILM!" From now until the gown and coffee cup return and the ashtray disappears, is what happened before the dream began. Although there are time skips, everything here happens in chronological order.

We witness Diane and Camilla's breakup, Diane's building jealousy, and her hiring of the hitman.

Now, it's often said that every face a person sees in a dream is a face they've seen before in real life, though not necessarily given to that same person in the dream. Also, as we all know, Dreams are often formed from your recent memories, things you've seen and thought about a lot recently manifest in your dreams, the things that are "on your mind". See, during this flashback, we see all of the faces, images and events that influence her dream. I won't go into it too far because there are SO MANY things here which get translated into dream elements, but I can give a few good examples.



Diane gives the money her aunt left to her to the hitman (hence why she had to switch apartments with her neighbour due to having no money). The deed is done, and the man behind winkies, Diane's regret, the darkest side of herself, her version of Lost Highway's mystery man, is created, holding this imaginary device. Notice the red light here, which seems to be associated with the mind in a lot of Lynch's stuff, so I think this is inside of her head at that moment. He sends the little old couple out to get her, I think they're a vision based on her madness, they showed up at the beginning as talent show judges, so I think she sort of blames them for setting her expectations to high and getting her into this whole mess by urging her to go to Hollywood, so her crazed hallucinations take on their form.

Also, notice that in the bag with the blue box there is some meat and a loose ringpull. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing meat means death, and a loose ringpull could mean that something has been opened and can't be closed again.

Next thing we see, the blue key is on the table (it's done, no turning back), the PIANO ASHTRAY IS GONE, the COFFEE CUP is back, and Diane is wearing the GOWN. This means the flashback is over and we're back to present day. Diane looks distraught, the key is there, she knows it's been done. The knocking starts up at the door again. Possibly the two detectives mentioned earlier. She's going mad and seeing things again. The old people are haunting her (the appearance of Camilla for a brief moment earlier established that she's hallucinating) and she ends it all. A quick glare from the man behind Winkies, "you did this to yourself". Her last thoughts are of her and Rita/her version of Camilla together in the spotlight, all she ever wanted.

Quote
I also don't think this "dream" does much of anything to alleviate Diane's guilt. The casting conspiracy etc. shifts blame away from Rita, not Diane. I could be forgetting or missing something, but I'm not aware of anything in the dream that would actually assuage Diane's guilt. Whereas there's a long list of things that would assuage Rita's guilt.
The casting conspiracy is Diane's excuse for why she doesn't get any roles but one "Camilla Rhodes" keeps getting them. She sees Angelo Badalamenti's character glare at her in the restaurant before the dream occurs (and he just has this "mafia" look to him. Just from looking at him you think "mafia" although that's likely not the case) around the same time she tells Coco that the director "didn't think so much of [her]". She's not ready to admit she's not a good enough actress (hence why in her dream/fantasy she blows people's minds with her acting), so her subconscious pieces together an excuse.

Quote
I suppose the "dream" itself (that she's helping Rita etc.) could alleviate Diane's guilt, but there's not much internal detail supporting that sentiment. What is supposedly Diane's dream is filled with so much content that has so little to do with Diane's guilt.
No guilt is being alleviated as such. Diane's regret is slowly coming after her (in the form of the man behind Winkies), her dream is full of denial and excuses, the man behind Winkies and Club Silencio are her guilt taking form in the dream coming after her, having been shoved into a corner. Dreams often work like this, where a repressed emotion or memory becomes personified and comes to haunt you or tell you the truth.

Quote
I think we should also consider that "Diane's guilt" is a lot more complex than that. It might even be more heartbrokenness and depression than guilt.
Completely agreed, much of the dream comes from her broken heart, and her desire to "own" and "control" Camilla (this is why I didn't answer your first question, I'm dealing with that one in here also). This is why, in her dream/fantasy, Camilla ("Rita") is lost, weak, and needs her. She wants Camilla to need her the way she needs Camilla. Camilla was having fun, but Diane loved Camilla deeply.

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It seems that the real imperative (supported by the bulk of the narrative) is to fix Camilla's broken situation, to right that wrong in a practical and meaningful way.
I agree, but for me, there's good reason why this would be the case in Diane's dream. Here are a few things I have always taken from this film regarding why some of the sub-plots happen:


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If it's all Diane's dream, why would Diane disappear at the point of Rita's self-actualization? It would be very hard to convince me that we're still in "Diane's dream" at that point.
Don't forget that Rita then also disappears, leaving only Aunt Ruth to walk in to an empty room. At this point Rita also is wearing the blonde wig, she's become a part of Betty/Diane. Also, consider this quote from psychiatrist Jaques Lacan:

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Suppose you're dreaming about yourself disguised as your desired self/other and you open a box with a key to find only darkness, your dream will collapse, and you'll wake up to find your real self.

Interestingly that lends a bit towards your theory too, since ina way Rita is "disguised" as Betty at that point, but Betty is Diane "disguised" as her desired self, and Rita is her "disguised" as her desired other. I wonder if perhaps in putting on Betty's wig etc., her "disguise" is actually coming off.

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Finally, I think I have a problem with just how much of the film is just a dream if you adopt the conventional "Diane's dream" theory. It's kind of silly and, for me, massively less meaningful.
See, for me, the dream gives the film SO much meaning. It's not Dallas, the dream is in the form a real life dream would be. A dream in the real world shapes from a person's desires, experiences and innermost being. Through this dream, we get to learn who Diane is on the inside, who she wishes to be, what she desires and who she would be if the universe would allow her. We get to know the character more intimately than any character I can think of in any other movie, and we get to see just how much she adores and needs Camilla, that although her acting career is everything to her, once "Rita" shows up, she just obsesses over her, getting to know her and find out who she is. Camilla is all she ever wanted. Although her relationship with Camilla in the real world was somewhat one-sided, in the dream we get to see just how in love with her she is, and it makes the truth all the more heartbreaking, I often well up at the end of the film ever since I concluded that this was it's story.

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What content in the film would even be outside of Diane's dream?
Everything between the PoV shot of the pillow and "Hey pretty girl, time to wake up" is the dream/fantasy, everything else is for real, but as I mentioned above, everything from the point where the coffee cup and robe vanish and the ashtray reappears, to the point where the ashtray is gone again and the cup and robe return, is set BEFORE the dream begins. It's actually pretty linear, it's all chronological except for one linear flashback at the end there.

I want to answer a few more of your questions but I need to find the time to, lol.

Imagine an edit of the movie where the flashback I mentioned above is moved to before the title (but after the jitterbug contest opening), but everything else is in the same order. In fact, if you get the time, watch everything after the ashtray reappears up until the blue key on the table, then rewind the film and watch it from the beginning, and then when the ashtray reappears this time, skip to when the blue key is on the table, that's what I strongly believe to be the chronological order of the film. Watch it that way and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on February 05, 2014, 09:50:03 PM
All I know is I'm definitely not on Jenkins SamFZGames side.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: jenkins on February 06, 2014, 04:41:02 AM
lol. SamFZGames, nice to meet you. pubrick is appreciating your thorough response and thoughtful reply, which is sweet of him. he's framing it within his eternal battle against me and referencing a totally dissimilar conversation. why? idk. off topic for sure, but eternal is eternal. there's way less bullshit from many other people here and i'm glad you've arrived. def good mul dr chat. feel free to nonlynch around too
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Pubrick on February 06, 2014, 10:57:12 AM
Don't be so paranoid. I was just making a reference to something I'd said before and using the quote to make it clear. It's been long established that you have no sense of humour so you can rest assured that you are the last person I have in mind when posting. Even the original quote above was aimed at everyone but you.

I'm genuinely on this dude's side. He just posted the most lucid explanation for mully d that I've ever seen. I'm interested to see how JB responds. I thought he was the authority on lynch so to me it's like if someone came in and properly schooled me on Kubrick. I'd feel.. inadequate.

But that's not entirely the same thing because Kubrick was not so obsessed with making his audience piece together the "real" narrative in such a literal chronological sense. The significance of his films do not hinge on getting the scenes in the "right" order. Even something as blatantly dreamlike as EWS allows the viewer to ponder the mysteries of the film (and indeed life itself) without ever having to worry about a definitive dream/not dream dichotomy.

That's even one of the major points of that film. No dream is just a dream and no reality is the whole truth. And how does this relate to cinema? No definitive narrative is ever the whole point of a movie.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: 03 on February 06, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
cmon jenkins, pubrick does that quote thing a lot, and has been for years.
anyway, amazing interpretation, where you at jeremy
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on February 06, 2014, 03:51:02 PM
I thought he was the authority on lynch so to me it's like if someone came in and properly schooled me on Kubrick. I'd feel.. inadequate.

Ah, Pubrick...

I don't feel like it's a competition, or that someone has to be crowned "the authority." I posted that 10 years ago this month and have never revisited it. I directed SamFZGames to this thread, essentially saying check this out because it could be wrong, but I don't quite buy the popular interpretation, so help me out. Also, SamFZGames is the most polite Lynch fan ever, so there's definitely nothing resembling antagonism here.

Please don't think I'm shooting down your interpretation, it's awesome, but if you'll allow me I'd like to point you to the moments which, for me, completely confirm the popular "Diane is dreaming" explanation. I also want to explain why I think this explanation has a HUGE amount of meaning.

No worries, as I've said I've always been open to being convinced, especially on Mulholland Drive. Your explanation is persuasive and clearly laid out and supported, and pretty much right away I'm willing to accept almost all of it.  :yabbse-thumbup:

I get now that Diane's dream is more complex than just alleviating guilt. And that the casting conspiracy is just an excuse for her inadequacy or lack of connectedness. Kind of makes the casting conspiracy less interesting, but that's okay.

But overall, I think your interpretation opens more avenues of meaning, and I think I'll like the film even more now!

I think I still have some issues, though.

If Adam Kesher's bad day is Diane's way of spiting him in her dream, why is he such a sympathetic character? (Or is that just me?)

The big one: Why does Rita appear to be having the conspiracy dream? She even appears to dream the Winkie's scene before that. The way it cuts back and forth between her sleeping and those scenes, we're clearly supposed to think it's her dream, and even that Diane is helping her have this dream. Is that just Lynch's joke, an epic misdirect within Diane's dream? I'm not finding any meaning in Diane dreaming that Rita is dreaming the Winkie's and conspiracy dreams. (But there's probably something there.) This is such a central part of the movie that I feel like it needs to be resolved.

It also feels now like Rita/Camilla plays such a shockingly small role, since for nearly all of the film she's simply a reimagined character in Diane's fantasy. She doesn't have much purpose or agency except to express Diane's desires.

Also, why does Diane show Rita all of those dark things and try to push her toward these troubling realities? Wouldn't Diane in this scenario want to hide these things from Rita or push her along a different, more picturesque path? Rita's whole journey seems to be about revealing to her the darkness of reality, not really about learning to appreciate Diane.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: SamFZGames on February 07, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
Seems this topic is more active than the Inland Empire one! :D

Thanks for the welcome and all the responses, and I'll probably "non-Lynch" a little too, truth be told, I found this place whilst googling trying to find some good discussion of Inland Empire. :)

So let's see...

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If Adam Kesher's bad day is Diane's way of spiting him in her dream, why is he such a sympathetic character? (Or is that just me?)

Hm, question is, is he sympathetic, or just pathetic? Notice how in the dream version of the auditions, he stares longingly at Betty, like he wanted to cast her but has been forced to cast Camilla Rhodes instead by the mafia.

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The big one: Why does Rita appear to be having the conspiracy dream? She even appears to dream the Winkie's scene before that. The way it cuts back and forth between her sleeping and those scenes, we're clearly supposed to think it's her dream, and even that Diane is helping her have this dream. Is that just Lynch's joke, an epic misdirect within Diane's dream? I'm not finding any meaning in Diane dreaming that Rita is dreaming the Winkie's and conspiracy dreams. (But there's probably something there.) This is such a central part of the movie that I feel like it needs to be resolved.

I'll have to watch through the movie again. To be honest I had never seen it as Rita dreaming since the transition was a direct cut, and the mafia conspiracy continues to happen whilst she's awake. I had seen the shots of Rita sleeping to hint at the "theme" of somebody being asleep, I didn't really think of it as her dreaming until I read your interpretation above. It's particularly interesting that she seems to be asleep while all the particularly weird/surreal stuff is occurring, it almost makes you wonder about Inception-styled "layers", to quote Edgar Allan Poe, "Is all that we see and all that we seem, but a dream within a dream?". That does make things a little more complicated than they need to be though. I had always seen it as "these things are going on whilst Rita sleeps".

I'll go through the film again and take a look at those shots though, because for the most part I'm really confident about my interpretation of MD, not that I believe Lynch isn't open to interpretation or that I'd impose my theories on other people, but I feel pretty adamant about MD because everything works for me with this theory, and I feel like the pillow at the beginning of the film is the "Charles Foster Kane's sled" moment that brings it all full circle (in a repeat viewing). It also makes the film very moving.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on February 07, 2014, 12:08:56 PM
I'll go through the film again and take a look at those shots though, because for the most part I'm really confident about my interpretation of MD

I'm pretty sure about your interpretation too. I don't think Rita sleeping/dreaming invalidates it. Is it possible that part of my theory could exist within yours? That Diane imagines herself as benevolent Betty revealing the truth to Rita through these dream infusions?

An alternative is a little more complex. Diane, dreaming, is trying to resolve two potential realities (the kind of thing that happens in dreams). The conspiracy dream as it takes shape is at first a way for her to falsely alleviate (what she believes should be) Rita's guilt, but then Diane (dreaming) beings to buy into it until she is fully immersed in her dream.

The first (simpler) idea seems more likely, though.

Notice how in the dream version of the auditions, he stares longingly at Betty, like he wanted to cast her but has been forced to cast Camilla Rhodes instead by the mafia.

I think at best, he's seen Diane before and he's like "weird, that's not Diane, but it looks like Diane... am I seeing things?" I don't see that as a look of longing or even explicit recognition, though. I read that as him seeing a ghost or a fleeting presence of some kind, as if the film is giving us a hint about Betty's non-existence. Alternatively, it could also be an "ooh, who's that?" reaction, which would certainly play into Betty's fantasy. But to me it still reads more like muted curiosity.

Here's my screenshot of that moment:

(http://xixax.com/files/jb/mdr/17.jpg)
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: SamFZGames on February 09, 2014, 04:49:21 AM
Interesting! I'd always seen that shot as "I really wanted to cast her for my film...", look how his eyebrows raise in the middle, a sort of sad look, I think it also supports Diane's "I am an amazing actor, I'm not getting the roles for BS reasons" thoughts. HOWEVER, I think she's not yet auditioned, and storms off when she hears him say "This is the girl", I'm not sure. I just always have seen that stare as a "But I wanted HER in my film..." stare of disappointment and longing.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Reelist on August 06, 2014, 04:37:08 AM
I'm so glad you guys put all this effort into examining the film, because after seeing it at least 5 times (including one tonight) I don't feel any closer to piecing together the "meaning" of what's happening at the end on my own standing. Everything I've made sense of is basically through osmosis of reading and considering what's been written in this thread. Tonight I went in blind, not reading Lynch's clues or having any particular theory in mind, and I'm just as baffled as the first time. I'm less frustrated by not being able to understand it and kind of just amazed that a film can still leave me with so many different questions after all these years.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Fernando on August 10, 2014, 09:28:54 PM
This is an excerpt from a Vulture chat with Justin Theroux, where he talks briefly about Mulholland Dr.

In a fantastic New Yorker article from 1999 about ABC’s baffling decision not to pick up David Lynch’s Mulholland Drive pilot, you’re quoted as saying, “I realized that the show is incidental to the ads [on network TV].” Could you contrast that experience with HBO?
Well, there’s so many differences. It goes way beyond just being able to say fuck or have sex or violence or whatever. It goes across the boards. HBO’s incredibly good at it. It’s hard to explain, but when we were shooting The Leftovers, you really get the sense that you’re shooting a ten-hour movie as opposed to relying on cliffhangers. You don’t have to rely on going out on a commercial break and coming back with whatever. There’s a lot less corporate pressure and no “Why is everyone driving Dodges?” I think there’s certain obligations a network has to its sponsors that a cable show or Netflix is not beholden to. They can take risks. I mean, even something as simple as smoking on our show is something most networks have a ban on. HBO doesn’t do that, obviously. And it enables you to tell a truthful story, because if eventually you start veering away from what happens in real life, you then are not telling a truthful story. As it relates to Mulholland Drive, that was originally a pilot for ABC, and I remember there were all kind of notes coming down from the network as we were making that, because my character smoked. And they kept saying, “Well, Justin can’t smoke in the show.” And David, in a wonderfully naïve kind of way, was like, “But people smoke!” That was his answer to it, you know. And then they said, “Justin can smoke but must reference trying to quit.” [David said], “He’s not trying to quit. Why would he say that?” And then they were like, “Justin can smoke but must have a cough, like a hacking cough.”

That’s amazing.
Yeah. So eventually, those kind of notes start to inform the actual content. The other one of interest was I remember they were violently opposed to a shot of dog shit, and I think David’s response was, “Bring me one person — and it could be anyone from age 3 to 100 — who has not seen dog shit, and I will cut my shot of dog shit.” And he’s just absolutely right. So all those pressures are relieved when you’re doing something for cable. And there’s also not the pressure to produce so many of them, which I think inevitably makes the quality skyrocket, because if you’re trying to write 23 of anything in a year, you’re just eventually going to go on autopilot, I imagine.

Full chat: http://www.vulture.com/2014/08/justin-theroux-leftovers-chat.html
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Alexandro on August 11, 2014, 12:20:59 PM
those are the true horror stories.
it's amazing the increasingly stupid ways gatekeepers try to force some sort of creative input into a project, and how much energy is wasted in dumb battles over things like wether a character smokes or not. that's why so many films and tv shows end up in mediocrity, people get tired of battling over nonsense and just do whatever and give up.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: litemakr on January 29, 2015, 05:51:49 PM
The "Diane's dream" explanation makes sense at first, but it really breaks down for me when I start to think it through. It seems to leave many more loose ends.

Under this theory, why is so much of the film about Betty helping Rita find her identity? Why does she go through all of that in such a knowing way, giving Rita a few potent glimpses of Diane, pointing out the "Diane" nametag? Is this all misdirection by the film? Why does Betty clearly know so much, if this is just her delusional dream?

I also don't think this "dream" does much of anything to alleviate Diane's guilt. The casting conspiracy etc. shifts blame away from Rita, not Diane. I could be forgetting or missing something, but I'm not aware of anything in the dream that would actually assuage Diane's guilt. Whereas there's a long list of things that would assuage Rita's guilt.

I suppose the "dream" itself (that she's helping Rita etc.) could alleviate Diane's guilt, but there's not much internal detail supporting that sentiment. What is supposedly Diane's dream is filled with so much content that has so little to do with Diane's guilt.

I think we should also consider that "Diane's guilt" is a lot more complex than that. It might even be more heartbrokenness and depression than guilt.

It seems that the real imperative (supported by the bulk of the narrative) is to fix Camilla's broken situation, to right that wrong in a practical and meaningful way.

If it's all Diane's dream, why would Diane disappear at the point of Rita's self-actualization? It would be very hard to convince me that we're still in "Diane's dream" at that point.

Finally, I think I have a problem with just how much of the film is just a dream if you adopt the conventional "Diane's dream" theory. It's kind of silly and, for me, massively less meaningful.

There are just so many problems with it for me. Why is Rita clearly dreaming within it? Rita dreams the Winkie's scene and the first conspiracy scene before Betty even arrives. From that very first time that Rita falls asleep, it's screamingly obvious that this is Rita's dream. And yet Diane's dream envelops all of that? It's just kind of dumb. What content in the film would even be outside of Diane's dream?

Hi All, noob here. Looking forward to being part of this community. Mullholland Dr. is one of my all time favorite movies and I have seen in many times.

While you have a unique and interesting interpretation, I think it is way over complicated.  Lynch has stated that one half of the film is a dream (but he won't say which half) and that it has a pretty straightforward structure. That plus his 10 clues seem to clearly indicate it is Diane's dream followed by a non-chronological sequence of reality. We see her go to sleep on her bed, then see her wake up, even with the cowboy telling her it's time to wake up.  All of the symbols and people in the dream can be interpreted and debated, but the structure is clear.

I think the reason Betty spends so much of the film helping Rita find her identity is very simple: it was filmed as a TV pilot and that was the main mystery. Since one of the main themes of the film is identity (how you see yourself, how others see you, how you can change identity by being an actor, or wearing a wig, etc). it works for me.

The dream is not assuaging Diane's guilt, it is letting her escape it by imagining that Camillla somehow escaped the hitmen. Have you ever had something horrible happen, like a death, and then gone to sleep and dreamed that person was still alive or that event had not happened? Only to wake up and suddenly remember that it really did? It's like that.  Diane's life went horribly wrong. She didn't have the talent she imagined she did and she was chewed up by Hollywood, as so many people are.  Diane's humiliation by Camilla pushed her over the edge and she had her murdered. The police were tracking her down. That's a lot to have on your conscience and sleep would be the only way to temporarily escape.

The casting conspiracy was her mind dealing with her own rejection by believing that actors were hired by a bizarre sinister network of people, not by talent.  And once again, this is all from a plot that Lynch retrofitted, but it works fine for me because it is dream logic.

The dream starts to break down in Club Silencio. Betty has her perfect fantasy connection with Rita and then reality starts to seep in. The flashes, Betty convulsing and of course the emcee stating "there is no band'. It's not real, just like a movie or a recording. Or a dream.

Betty disappears first because Diane doesn't want the box (reality) to be opened. Her ideal image of Betty is gone, broken down by the impending reality of waking up. But she is still desperately holding onto Rita. I don't think Rita has any self-actualization, she is just there to open the box because it must be opened at that point. Diane is waking up. I don't understand the appearance of Aunt Ruth at that point however.

I'm not sure why you think Rita is dreaming the Winkie's scene. That seems to clearly be part of Diane's dream. The character who drops dead upon seeing the bum was in Winkie's when Diane hired the hit man, I don't think there is any more significance to him than that. The more important thing is the bum in the alley, who represents death or the evil which took place at Winkies (Diane ordering the hit). I read somewhere that the original character was supposed to be a female prostitute and was going to figure as an important character in the proposed series. I see no reason to think it is Rita's dream just because she passes out and then wakes up in a later scene. There is no transition or device to indicate she is dreaming, whereas there are very clear transitions at the beginning and end of Diane's dream.  I think you are reading way more than was intended. And once again it was shot as a straightforward scene in the pilot, not with Rita having a dream in mind.

At any rate, this is a great discussion. I'm looking forward to reading a lot more in this forum.


Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: litemakr on January 29, 2015, 08:08:59 PM
Well I happened to re-watch the film and, basically, I think Lynch really fooled us by a LONG SHOT.

In the end of INLAND EMPIRE, in the mansion with the crippled lady that says "Sweeeeet", LEHarring (Camilla) appears. I always though, isn't that funny ? Because Naomi Watts (Diane) should be there too, or even alone.  I always thought this because of the explanations most people had, that it was all about Diane and etc...

I think Lynch in a way told us: you guys are wrong.

[Please note, this is only my impression of what most people thought about the movie, me included - if for you it was always about Camilla, great, good fortune to you]

It's pretty simple actually and in a way it's in the 10 clues the man gave. He may be a joker but he's always VERY HONEST, I really think he has a strict artistic integrity - which is rare nowadays, I think, I believe.

But lets put this in topics and keep it simple, what I noticed in this watch of the film:

- Rita/Camilla speaks SPANISH. Notice the dinner conversation (in the end of the film) at Adam's House. When they say something in spanish "luigi something" (when referring to the film The Sylvia North Story). Notice that CLub Silencio is SPANISH and that RDRio sings a Roy Orbison song IN SPANISH. Also note the guy from the Hotel, where Adam goes after the pink paint incident, speaks SPANISH "Oye Carnal" (he says) and he also reappears at Club Silencio.

- Lynch said in one of the clues, most people didn't saw this (I think): 6 - Notice the robe, the ashtray, the coffee cup.
   The ROBE, notice the ROBE when Betty goes to tell Rita that her Aunt doesn't know her! The ROBE HAS PINK PAINT ON IT!!
  The coffee cup appears at Winkies and at the apartment, but more on this part later. Also notice in the 2nd Restaurant(Pinky's) the GIANT SLOGAN "MADE SPECIAL TO PINKY's" (Lynch does a shot of this, full size, you can't miss this) In fact it appears before the scene where the BLUE VAN appears for the 2nd time, and the sign is saying "FOR PINKY'S ONLY"

- Note that when Rita's sleeping in the beg of the film, beneath the table where aunt Ruth picks up the keys. Is the first appearance of the hobo lady. To me this is Camilla and this is why in the end of the film she lets the "old people loose".

- Notice that Rita, doesn't KNOW who she is.

- Notice that Rita wears a blonde wig and then Look's EXACTLY like Diane/Betty and she ENTERS the Blue Box wearing that wig, and surprise, surprise she wakes up being Diane :)

For me this is evidence that the film is about Camilla (mainly).

Notice also that DEAD PEOPLE don't Dream. So Diane didn't really shot herself, Camilla did AND Diane was so upset/depressed/unbalanced about this that she RELIVED what Camilla went though in way...

So you guys are right, the beg is Diane Dream, in fact everything is Diane S. dream. She never wakes up, she just finds the rabbit hole(blue box) in it.

- That's why the DEAD BODY has a dark dress (like Rita after the accident, running in the street in the beg of the film) and has DARK HAIR.

- The Cowboy is like the Mystery Man in Lost Highway, a walker of worlds (inside the MIND) a sort of conscience if you like.

Lynch mentions the robe (the one Diane puts on after waking from her dream) the coffee cup and the ashtray to help you order the reality scenes chronologically. All of the clues are to help you determine what is the dream, what is reality and in what order.

Diane is not dead when she has the dream. She is very much alive and we witness her shooting herself after the dream. Finding the dead body in the dream is premonition. Diane knows she is going to kill herself, at least on a subconscious level.

The bum is only present in Diane's mind (first in the dream, then the beginning of her hallucination as she loses her mind and shoots herself) never in reality.

I completely disagree that the movie is about Camilla. She is a minor character (in reality) and a shallow and mean spirited one. This is about Diane coming to Hollywood and getting chewed up and spit out by the harsh realities of the movie business. Its a very sad story and not that far off from what does happen to a lot of aspiring actors. They don't kill their lovers per se, but very few make it and most are treated badly and end up broken.

I think you could be right about the cowboy, although he is shown very briefly as a real character at the dinner party.
Title: Re: Mulholland Dr. Explanation?
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 30, 2015, 12:25:49 AM
Welcome to the site!  :yabbse-thumbup:

Yeah, I agree with your criticisms. That was definitely a case of me overcomplicating things. SamFZGames convinced me (here (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=1285.msg331397#msg331397), I think) and I no longer believe in my original theory.

Quote from: litemakr
I'm not sure why you think Rita is dreaming the Winkie's scene. That seems to clearly be part of Diane's dream. The character who drops dead upon seeing the bum was in Winkie's when Diane hired the hit man, I don't think there is any more significance to him than that. The more important thing is the bum in the alley, who represents death or evil. I read somewhere that the original character was supposed to be a female prostitute and was going to figure as an important character in the proposed series. I see no reason to think it is Rita's dream just because she passes out and then wakes up in a later scene. There is no transition or device to indicate she is dreaming, whereas there are very clear transitions at the beginning and end of Diane's dream.

To be fair, I think I was onto something there, and it still doesn't totally add up for me. There is in fact a transition/device to indicate that Rita is dreaming. The Winkie's scene is bookended by identical shots of Rita sleeping.

In fact, there are FIVE bookend shots of Rita sleeping throughout that entire section of the movie, just to remind us that she is sleeping between each dreamlike sequence.

I have screencaps here:

http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=1285.msg123289#msg123289