XIXAX Film Forum

Film Discussion => The Small Screen => Topic started by: Punch on January 13, 2014, 07:42:56 AM

Title: True Detective
Post by: Punch on January 13, 2014, 07:42:56 AM
True Detective is an American television anthology drama series on HBO created and written by Nic Pizzolatto, with the first season directed by Cary Fukunaga (All Eight Episodes).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXwCoNwBSkQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roiKrE5KLbk

First episode aired last night, shot on 35mm 3 perf
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on January 13, 2014, 11:45:47 AM
If someone is wondering what type of series this is, few highlights.

Investigate the investigators - there is strong focus on this, we know much more about detectives than about victim. Non-chronological story telling: flash backs, scrap throwing, you name it. I could be wrong, but I have feeling that those will be used to show a clash of personalities in the face of extraordinary situation. 8 episodes, 60 minutes each - that is pretty much a British format.

btw. T Bone Burnett is responsible for music.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on January 13, 2014, 10:32:48 PM
I really liked the first episode and its gotten me really excited for the show. Immediately, you could tell the aesthetic and tone of the show was going to be different from other investigation series like The Killing, The Bridge and Broadchurch. True Detective feels cinematic while the others still feel like television.

What really gets me excited is that after the first episode of a investigation drama, "who is the killer?" is not at the top but closer to the bottom of the things I want to learn.

Matthew McConaughey will win best male lead in a drama next year.

The show has a great title sequence. Do not skip forward and miss it.

EDIT: I just rewatched the episode. The show is going to be fucking great.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on January 14, 2014, 03:18:51 AM
The show has a great title sequence. Do not skip forward and miss it.

Agree. If someone is not yet convinced, here is opening, which serves great as a teaser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxXRkqXfhYM
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kellen on January 14, 2014, 09:14:17 PM
Thought it was a really strong first episode and I didn't even realize that Cary Fukunaga was involved with it until the credits (I missed the intro).
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Axolotl on January 15, 2014, 02:33:01 AM
This can be really good.
The first episode was very calm and introspective, it seems like a show that's not in a rush to go anywhere and just lets the places and the characters settle in.
The writing is great, especially for McConaughey's character. Cohle could easily be a hardboiled caricature but McConaughey's delivery really extracts everything from every line of dialogue.
Nice to see actors from the Wire and Veep show up.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on January 16, 2014, 12:23:09 AM
On guesses alone (haven't read any spoilers), McConaughey probably bangs Harrelson's wife.
Anyways, I really enjoy that the thrust of the season's arch is only brought up in the last few seconds of the episode. It's known that these actors can sell their characters, and I think we got a more McConaughey-heavy episode this week, and hopefully with it being a show about a duo we'll get more Harrelson-centric stories in the near future. There's already some hints at a deeper story with him already *coughDeliveryGirlcough*

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Fernando on January 19, 2014, 11:06:36 PM
another solid episode. im officially hooked.

ppl who arent on boeard yet need to check this out, this show looks and feels like it could be the real deal.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on January 20, 2014, 07:31:44 AM
Some commentary from director and writer (Nic Pizzolatto wrote whole story and Cary Joji Fukunaga directed whole thing):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jEEwLo-MKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfjhKPnllfA

There is preview available for next episode - I would recommend to skip it as it is full of spoilers (I'm bit angry at the moment that I watched it).
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: bigperm on January 21, 2014, 05:10:48 PM
Jus wanted to echo Fernando, get in on this!
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on January 22, 2014, 02:03:10 AM
I'm still loving the show after the second episode.

After loving the pilot, I looked into info about the show. I'm surprised to learn it's going to be like American Horror Story. The format is an anthology with each season depicting a different cast and story. That is disappointing cause I'm loving the cast so much.

That means we only have six more episodes with Detective Cohle.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on January 22, 2014, 04:20:01 AM
The format is an anthology with each season depicting a different cast and story. That is disappointing cause I'm loving the cast so much.

For me it is the other way around. I'm looking forward to revival of mini-series - my favorite format, which is somewhere between film and TV series (very specific pacing). Closed 8-episode deal is one of the reasons why Harrelson and McConaughey signed on - they even talk about that in some interviews. Beside I'm not ready for another "The Killing" treatment at the moment.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on January 27, 2014, 08:12:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8v_5yr7mQA

1x03 SPOILERS!

That opening shot! There was another jaw dropping wide shot with tent church and ship moving in the background. Then in another scene we got magnificent close-up on Maggie's face, when she hugs her husband. "True Detective" is one of the best looking series (some productions from Europe could compete, but as far as TV made in USA goes, this could be very well a champion).

I was nicely surprised by seeing Shea Whigham. I have soft spot for this actor, so I'll take anything from him. Preacher was quite a memorable.

So far there was almost no action, yet show managed to build a lot of tension - whole scene with Rust playing with beer cans was very intense. It looks like some important things will occur in next episode, but that was to be expected from mid-season I guess. Tangled chronology is back - after previous episode I was expecting, that this could be the case only for the first episode. Will the story telling in this unclear timeline approach continue? I hope so, this is nice change.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on January 27, 2014, 05:46:29 PM
There isn't a weakness in any aspect of the show. The Direction, Acting, Writing, Editing, Production Design, etc... has an incredible grasp on this story, tone and characters that it feels like a show that has been on for multiple seasons. Even the best shows go through growing pains early but after the last episode it's impressive the show has only had three episodes.

No new episode next Sunday due to the Super Bowl. 

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Fernando on January 27, 2014, 09:11:26 PM
yeah, this show is really something else.


SPOILS EPISODE 3

yep, that opening shot was great, also the last shot or sequence where Rust says "...and like a lot of dreams, there's a monster at the end of it." ending with a haunting freeze frame. damn.

I liked how casual Martin mentions that they caught the killer because of Rust, right in the middle of the episode! here I thought the investigation would take more episodes, but apparently that isn't the case, cant wait.


for the record: I never watch the previews for the next episode.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Lottery on January 30, 2014, 01:58:56 AM
So this show is the real deal hey?

Will start watching it tonight.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on January 30, 2014, 04:05:54 AM
So this show is the real deal hey?

If you don't mind quality over the quantity (I have seen some ranting on Xixax about British mini-series) answer is yes. It reminds me "Mad Men" a bit - it is driven by tension, not action so far. "Investigate the investigators" - I'll repeat that as it is good phrase to describe the show. We know a lot more about detectives than case itself. Detectives are very different, to the point of contrast, yet it isn't comical/stereotypical difference. It looks like a film: lots of external shots (those locations), beautiful composition for wide shots etc. What more to say?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Lottery on January 30, 2014, 04:37:22 PM
Liking it so far. Two main characters are quite interesting and it has a cool atmosphere. For a crime show it feels pretty 'chill' which is nice.
It's funny you bring of quantity vs quality Mel, I just hope it ramps up and resolves itself properly. Maybe because I want to see more of the case or maybe there's a fullness to these characters that I want to see more of.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on January 30, 2014, 11:21:47 PM
It's weird...sometimes the show gets "talky" near the beginning and you think it's all going to be exposition, touching on some themes you think they've been over before, but then before you know it the show, for lack of a better word, "happens". So three eps. in and I'll recommend it to others.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: wilder on February 10, 2014, 01:12:36 AM
Episode 4 - HOLY SHIT. It reminded me of what parts of the Pusher movies do.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: xerxes on February 10, 2014, 01:25:45 AM
That long take was pretty damn impressive.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on February 10, 2014, 04:30:14 AM
It reminded me of what parts of the Pusher movies do.

wat
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 10, 2014, 08:26:38 AM
That long take was pretty damn impressive.

That was quite something - episode is worth watching for last 10 minutes alone. It looks like two 3 minutes long shots stitched together. Camera tilts only one time and I would suspect that police helicopter on black background is the place where cut is. There is also moment later on, when camera stay on wall a bit longer - could be wrong there. Still it doesn't take away anything for me, quite the opposite as it is smart thing to do. Fukunaga talks a little about sequence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YpZ7ZNjwlw
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: diggler on February 10, 2014, 10:22:40 AM
Apparently they worked in possible edit points, but what wound up in the show was the actual 6 minute uninterrupted take. I loved the small bits like Cohle peeking out the bedroom window and hearing the suspicion brewing outside.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1722001/true-detective-long-take.jhtml
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: wilder on February 10, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
It reminded me of what parts of the Pusher movies do.

wat

The intensity -- gradually rising tension without relief until stress levels reach breaking point (combined with) Harrelson's personal problems in this episode. The unbearable self-loathing, his pent up rage stemming from self-hate becoming violence directed at other people.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Lottery on February 11, 2014, 12:13:57 AM
Last 10 or so minutes were amazing. Slow burn drama leads to incredible action sequence. Good show.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on February 11, 2014, 10:27:03 AM
Oddly I noticed the editing in the first half of the episode was a bit choppy, where they might drop you into the middle of a scene and place a flashback within the overall flashback, that type of thing, and I wondered if the episode was kind of losing it's narrative traction. By the end of the episode, I felt as if that was done to counteract what we would be encountering in that last chunk of the story. Whether not that's the case, well done Cary Fukunaga & co.  :bravo:
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on February 11, 2014, 05:31:09 PM
just watched all four in a row.
this show has sealed itself as penultimate shows of this era.
this show makes the wire look like jake and the fat man and i will fight anyone that has a problem with that.
and p.s. that long shot will go down in history. this man translated gaspar noe to television.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on February 13, 2014, 11:43:40 AM
SPOILERS

It looks fucking great and it's addictive. But the characters are cliché and some storylines are just bad (Marty and his wife, especially.) Anyway, it works because, again, it looks great and the interviews make it so much more interesting.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on February 13, 2014, 02:21:38 PM
Cinephilia and Beyond posted the pilot script http://ubuntuone.com/3JC93gYSXd7YnUjJZqLV4C (http://ubuntuone.com/3JC93gYSXd7YnUjJZqLV4C)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on February 14, 2014, 04:28:15 PM
The One Literary Reference You Must Know to Appreciate ​True Detective: http://io9.com/the-one-literary-reference-you-must-know-to-appreciate-1523076497 (http://io9.com/the-one-literary-reference-you-must-know-to-appreciate-1523076497)

No Spoilers if you are up to date.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Alexandro on February 15, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
I was sleepy and I got lost at some point between the end of episode 3 and 4.
Can someone be kind enough to remind me some of the important stuff I either don't get or don't remember?
The characters are so rich and well played by both actors that I just lose track of the plot. Never happened to me before.
What did they conclude after going to the open mass and talking with the priest and the other dude?
Weren't they all set to go searching for Ledoux at the end of episode 3, and didn't the episode ended with a disturbing shot of some naked man running around with something on his head? I thought that's what we were going to see when episode 4 began...
Yet when the episode begins we go to jail and they question Dori's ex again.
Then Rust goes to this weird techno-hillbilly rave and questions that other guy about Ledoux's whereabouts...he tells him about the gang of bikers...
And then it all got weird for me. I could follow but I don't get it completely.
Rust knew these people beforehand? Why are they suddenly leaving for a raid in some ghetto? How does Woody knows where they are going? Where do the helicopters come from?

I think the show is amazing, of course.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 15, 2014, 11:19:08 AM
Spoilers!

Copied from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Detective_%28TV_series%29#Episodes):

In 1995, Hart and Cohle locate the owner of the burnt-down church, preacher Joel Theriot (Shea Whigham), learning that Dora Lange was often seen with a tall man with facial scarring, and begin searching for him while being pressured to turn the case over to the task force.

In 1995, Hart and Cohle interrogate Lange who provides information about Ledoux, his former cellmate. Lange informs the detectives that he showed pictures of Dora to Ledoux and gives them a name of a known associate of Ledoux's to follow up on: Tyrone Weem. Hart tracks down Weem at a warehouse rave and forces him at gunpoint to give up the name of the biker gang Ledoux is cooking meth for, known as the Iron Crusaders. Cohle, who previously worked undercover with the gang in question...

Cohle hits the Iron Crusaders hangout masquerading as a Mexican cartel representative and makes a deal with his contact that if he gives his word to back a deal, Cohle will help him rob a stash house in the projects. Disguised as cops, they infiltrate the stash house but stir the area's inhabitants in the process. With the actual cops on their way, Cohle drags his contact outside as a gun goes off and pandemonium ensues among the projects. Cohle calls Hart who collects them from the scene as the police arrive.

Did this help?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Alexandro on February 15, 2014, 11:33:33 AM
yes, it did help. although that kind of confirmed what I thought. It just seems weird to me how it develops once McConaughey steps in undercover. Seems overtly risky to just go out with them to rob a stash in the moment...
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on February 15, 2014, 03:09:53 PM
thats funny to see such an amazing scene broken down so plainly.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on February 16, 2014, 09:02:00 PM
uh what. we're switching protagonists?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Fernando on February 16, 2014, 11:07:27 PM
this was pretty fucking good.

if this ends right, it will be without a doubt among the greatest series ever put on film.


SPOILS EPISODE 5

right now I don't think Rust did any of the shit those cops imply to Marty, although they make a case.


btw many thanks to brando for that timely link, I got chills when that dude mentioned the yellow king.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 17, 2014, 06:17:06 AM
1x05 SPOILERS

Some complains about showiness of previous episode were circling around. I think THAT long take makes now perfect sense. Scene were they catch Ledoux is far from cerebral, I would say that it is even anticlimactic. They could make this big, instead they moved back to story telling.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Lottery on February 17, 2014, 06:22:05 AM
Brilliantly creepy and well told episode. Top marks for this one.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Axolotl on February 17, 2014, 12:20:36 PM
SPOILERS EP 5
The one image that keeps coming back is a girl surrounded by five men.

Appears here first, in Dora Lange's mother's house-
(http://i.imgur.com/u3YMW0T.png)

The second one is the more disturbing, not only because it's made by a little girl, because its reveal is preceded by her telling her sister that they don't have a mommy or daddy anymore.
(http://i.imgur.com/tCjvPr8.png)

And here's Rust in 2012
(http://i.imgur.com/yeYftoY.png)

I think he's doing it to gauge their reactions to it and see if they're "in" on it.

It's obvious whatever/whoever is behind this whole thing is the closest to Marty, some incident earlier on that we're missing and that really fucked his older daughter up.

The king in yellow stuff mainly seems to be a clever bit of intertextuality by the writer, mainly there to provide color and hint at something terrifying right around  the corner.

I need to rewatch all the episodes.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Tictacbk on February 17, 2014, 01:47:06 PM
uh what. we're switching protagonists?

Next season will be a whole different story, protagonists and all.


(Also, I love this show.)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on February 17, 2014, 02:10:20 PM
uh what. we're switching protagonists?

It's not a regular series but an anthology.  Every season will be a different cast and a different story. It also can be a different type of story. It won't always be about a murder investigation. It could be about detectives going after a crime boss. It's very open to what the show can be every season. I was disappointed when I first read Marty and Rust won't be back. I'm now excited about the possibilities of this format as long as the show is able to attract the kind of talent this season has been able to do.

I don't know for sure but think the show gets its name from a magazine with the same name. The magazine would publish true crimes and short stories.


There was a throwaway comment by Rust. He mentioned how badly the task force wanted to take the Dora Lange murder investigation alluding that the task force may be involved. It's clear after the last episode, the yellow king isn't some nut preaching to a bunch of meth heads in the woods. He is powerful and has reach into the police.

My guess is that Rust and Marty realize the department is corrupted and there is no way for them to investigate it as cops. I think Rust comes up with a plan that uses his talents of going DEEP undercover. Rust and Marty fake the fight/breakup. Rust leaves the force but doesn't disappear. He is actually investigating the entire time. I also don't believe Marty when he said he hasn't talked to Rust in ten years. I believe he has been helping Rust the entire time.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on February 17, 2014, 03:07:35 PM
ok you just blew my mind, and i guess i deserve for not researching my new favorite show.
so this is gonna be like american horror story but a crime show. fucking. awesome.

so if they're getting such amazing actors for the first season, what the hell are they doing in the future? you usually have to build up to that shit, they're really just gonna throw away two amazing actors in two of their best performances?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 17, 2014, 04:00:56 PM
so if they're getting such amazing actors for the first season, what the hell are they doing in the future? you usually have to build up to that shit, they're really just gonna throw away two amazing actors in two of their best performances?

TL;DR
You shouldn't quote yourself, but hey:

Closed 8-episode deal is one of the reasons why Harrelson and McConaughey signed on - they even talk about that in some interviews.

There is very little chance that they would agree to play Rust and Marty otherwise. To not waste post completely, another "Inside the Episode":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7eTYUD0S7E
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Lottery on February 17, 2014, 04:56:22 PM
Man, watching the case gradually unfold has been awesome, it almost comes out of nowhere. Embedded in their own little personal struggles.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on February 17, 2014, 05:46:55 PM
My guess is that Rust and Marty realize the department is corrupted and there is no way for them to investigate it as cops. I think Rust comes up with a plan that uses his talents of going DEEP undercover. Rust and Marty fake the fight/breakup. Rust leaves the force but doesn't disappear. He is actually investigating the entire time. I also don't believe Marty when he said he hasn't talked to Rust in ten years. I believe he has been helping Rust the entire time.

I'm thinking every word of this is spot on. They've already established how Rust was able to go undercover longer than any cop is supposed to be able to.

The king in yellow stuff mainly seems to be a clever bit of intertextuality by the writer, mainly there to provide color and hint at something terrifying right around  the corner.

You might be right, but I'm holding out hope that the season ends up diving headfirst into supernatural/existential-horror territory. That's what will push this series over the top from a great show to a legendary one.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: squints on February 17, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
Some of the theories people have been mentioning about where the show will go seem obvious but pretty spot on.

The one I haven't seen mentioned here is that it seems inevitable that  Marty's daughter will be entangled in this whole cult mess because she's just the type of target they're looking for.

I truly just can't stop thinking about this show.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Lottery on February 17, 2014, 06:12:54 PM
You might be right, but I'm holding out hope that the season ends up diving headfirst into supernatural/existential-horror territory. That's what will push this series over the top from a great show to a legendary one.

Yeah, this episode especially, I was expecting it to tip over into some sort of Twin Peaks/Stephen King type business.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: diggler on February 17, 2014, 06:15:05 PM
Nice catch with all the imagery involving five men standing around one girl. It plays nicely with Marty's "he was interviewing you" statement to the investigators. This show really nails the tone of a great mystery novel. None of the revelations feel forced and every plot mechanism has precedence with what we know about the characters. Few shows can handle that kind of narrative consistency.

Looks like the hot Amish girl from Banshee is back next episode.  :inlove:
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: bigperm on February 18, 2014, 01:28:44 PM
Inspiration for True Detective? - long read but a damn good one -
The Jeff Davis 8 (https://medium.com/news-and-politics/d1b813e13581)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: squints on February 18, 2014, 03:36:19 PM
Lotsa press on this show lately.

 Pretty great read from Grantland. (http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/carcosa-or-bust-the-satisfyingly-weird-mysteries-of-true-detective/)

Great interview with Nic Pizzolatto. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/04/inside-the-obsessive-strange-mind-of-true-detective-s-nic-pizzolatto.html)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 19, 2014, 03:32:24 AM
I need to rewatch all the episodes.

I rewatched episodes 1-3 so far and It does pay off. Some examples:

SPOILERS

(http://i.imgur.com/BoShcvW.jpg) (http://imgur.com/BoShcvW)

I wasn't sure what Rust is looking here for. After visiting back episode one, it is pretty clear that report with Fontenot girl was filled as "Made in Error".

(http://i.imgur.com/90yR2TH.jpg) (http://imgur.com/90yR2TH)

This I just like, as Rust goes back to school in episode 5 (with black stars around him at the end).

(http://i.imgur.com/cIo1P6h.jpg) (http://imgur.com/cIo1P6h)

One of the more obvious examples why Cohle will likely go after Reverent Tuttle. Thing that slipped by me: tent preacher was for few years serving under Tuttle. Maybe this is coincidence, but Christian squad shows up right after Marty tells his lover (after sex) that there is more to case and children are missing, but they are keeping that from public - she works in courthouse, did she spread this knowledge?

(http://i.imgur.com/MBxnNhu.jpg) (http://imgur.com/MBxnNhu)

One of the things that intrigues me. Rust tells that his daughter died in car accident. It doesn't sound like he is telling everything. Was he driving a car that day?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: bigperm on February 19, 2014, 09:24:58 AM
To add a few more observations after going back

SPOILERS

After re-watching the scene with Marty at his Father-In-Law's house, I sure as hell find something a bit off about Grandpa. Even when Marty's daughters are in the boat and seem stuck the younger says "should we ask Grandpa for help, and the older daughter instantly says NO. Even thought she changes her mind, this whole sequence at Grandpa's is weird and even Grandma is off. Marty shuts down the Grandpa with hie "old men say things all the time, then die and the world keep spinning line" (paraphrase sorry) He reminded me of Cohle a bit there but Grandpa seems pretty pissed after Marty walks away. If we haven;t said it yet high chance that not only does Marty's daughter end up in the middle of all this but may have already been exposed thus the drawings of nude people and the dolls in the gang bang type setting in her room. Just a thought.

I've noticed a few times that Marty seems to look down when he lies. At the shooting board, to the current time detectives, just an observation.

Also, in Cohle's "undercover toolbox" he had the flask and used it again going after Ginger when he went undercover again. Obviously he's had it in the modern time interrogations - could be nothing but just a thought.

This image, has stuck with me the most from episode 5 - it comes right after Cohle hears "The Yellow King" from the guy Cohle's interrogating who wants to cut the deal instead of going down for murder. I don't subscribe to the idea that Marty is in on any of this but I do maintains minor doubts and to cut to this right after that scene where we know the case wasn't solved, really chilled me. Again could be nothing at all.
Here's the shot
(http://i.imgur.com/dELfTIq.png)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 19, 2014, 09:51:52 AM
SPOILERS

Even when Marty's daughters are in the boat and seem stuck the younger says "should we ask Grandpa for help, and the older daughter instantly says NO.

I'm fairly sure it is the other way around. Maisie (they younger one, the good one) tells no.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: bigperm on February 19, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
sorry, wishful thinking.

Here's a cool site to track all the characters and other tidbits from the show

http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/ (http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on February 19, 2014, 02:12:35 PM
Last night, I went through the episodes looking for clues. I looked at that billboard with the girl that shows up in episode 1 and then years later in episode 5. I paused it and looked at the police report of the 2012 victim. I listened to the names of the task force. I didn't come up with much. When Marty and Rust go to talk to the sheriff about the missing girl and the one that was chased through the woods by a "green eared spaghetti monster" The sheriff's office has two buck heads and one of those old beer mugs with relief sculpture of a tree. In his office he has two references to the crime scene. It's a stretch but the only thing I caught.

One of the more obvious examples why Cohle will likely go after Reverent Tuttle.

For anyone who didn't catch it in episode 5, the interrogators asked Marty if Rust ever mentioned Billie Lee Tuttle when he got back on to the case in 2002. Marty's response was "you know he did." Also, we already know Tuttle is dead. He died in 2010 from mixing up his pain pills right after Rust reappears in Louisiana. The interrogators believed there was foul play and Rust was involved in Tuttle's death. I also had forgotten that Tuttle institution created the Light of the Way school at the end of episode 5.

The biggest thing I haven't seen asked is why Dora Lang and why Stephanie Kordish (2012 victim)? Why are they killed and posed in such a way and not among one of the other "made in error" victims? Rianne Olivier was dumped in a swamp with nothing but with the symbol on her back. You can assume all the "made in error" victims were the same way.

So why are these two girls special? Why does the yellow king want these two girls death known and displayed this way? The relationship between Fathers and their Daughters has been important throughout the entire series. There is also a lot of references to child abuse. One of those or both could eventually play a part. Although, Dora Lang's father is dead and he was only a truck driver. Dora's mother did mention child abuse. She said, "Why would a father not bathe his own child?" 

The speech that Rust gives to the interrogators about how his daughter's death saved him from the sin of bringing a soul into existence keeps coming back to me. It continues the theme of Fathers and their daughters but can't really figure out how it relates to the killings.

I also read the original pilot script last night. It's not the script for the pilot episode but the script that was shopped around and eventually bought by HBO. There are some changes which I'll post for people who don't want to read it.


The location in the script is set in northwest Arkansas. Rust is from Louisiana rather than Texas. The crime scene is similar but instead of antlers Dora Lang has turkey wings attached to her back. The only important thing I took from the script was that it mentioned a character wore a Knights of Columbus ring. The character would also continually play with the ring. In the pilot episode that character doesn't do that but Billie Lee Tuttle is fidgeting with a ring on his hand.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on February 19, 2014, 06:14:36 PM
"this show is the new breaking bad" - 03
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 19, 2014, 07:19:26 PM
"this show is the new breaking bad" - 03

Please explain.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Tictacbk on February 19, 2014, 10:19:31 PM
it's engrossing and worth discussion?

And in general a step above most other television?

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on February 20, 2014, 11:42:14 AM
This is the worst show on television.

























Really.































Nah just kidding it's the best.


>>>Spoilers up to ep 5<<<

My favourite little detail is all the driving shots. The rear screen projection is so purpousely incongruous it reminds me of Alex driving in clork, and bill in the back of the cab in ews. The fact that Marty highlights the car as a place of "quiet contemplation" early on really places significance in the mental state of the occupants. It foreshadows the various flashbacks/hallucinatory trails that occur for rust in the car.

There's also a very interesting focus on the aerial top-down view of moving cars along the highway and other roads. Part of it is to display the iconic road/creek parallel lines we've seen from Easy Rider to FMJ. These are war zones in those narratives between cultures, and as Laszlo Kovacs says about the helicopter shot that ends easy rider,  it's also a serendipitous illustration of the conflict between man and nature.

This show's focus on man's nature goes very deep. Apart from the fact there's at least one character who's obsessed with the topic, the whole narrative is now recognized for it's unusual focus on the two investigators. These are people whose job it is to uncover the true nature of others.

Here the title of the show comes into play. The entire structure described above is self reflexive, we watch the watchmen. This is echoed as the show progresses in various forms as circles and cycles become more apparent. Ledoux says that time is a flat circle, and rust repeats this as he tells the investigators that they are all doomed to repeat their lives. Played out against the retelling of their lives, we can see that there is some truth to this insight in their own predicament.

Marty is not immune to the recursive nature of time. He shows his beliefs at interesting moments like when he says in ep 5, regarding what happened between rust and his girl, "what always happens between men and women, reality".  There is a humbly genius moment in ep 5 then, with this in mind, when Marty tells of that sweet moment at the roller rink with his daughters and wife. They finish a loop and he stays at the edge talking with his wife, "begging" for forgiveness forever, as the girls go for one more round, oblivious. Do you see this? He's trying to get out of his circle, and his wife you get the impression doesn't believe he can do it. Indeed, the modern scenes show him without his ring: he has been ousted from her circle for eternity.

There's more to say on the subject of fathers and daughters. Ep 5 gives us a tease about Marty and his daughter. We can think back to what rust says about his own daughter's death saving him from the sin of being a father. That dying young is the best way to go, before you become aware of and have to relive the hell of reality. Time will tell whether Marty gets to feel that ultimate regret. Those reflections in the locker room pointed out above are worth thinking about, especially as they play out over one of Rust's monologues about "the nightmare you keep waking up into."

Oh and then there's the yellow king.

What a show.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on February 20, 2014, 02:38:12 PM
This is echoed as the show progresses in various forms as circles and cycles become more apparent. Ledoux says that time is a flat circle, and rust repeats this as he tells the investigators that they are all doomed to repeat their lives.

I've noticed a couple of times a character repeat something in the 2012 interview that they heard in a flashback.

Marty is not immune to the recursive nature of time. He shows his beliefs at interesting moments like when he says in ep 5, regarding what happened between rust and his girl, "what always happens between men and women, reality". 

That response by Marty is stolen from Rust in episode 3. Marty asks Rust if a man can be in love with two women at the same time. Rust responds with "I don't think man can love. Inadequacies and realities always set in."

When Rust and Marty go to visit the grandfather of Rianne Olivier, the grandfather says "She left four years ago like her ma. Not surprised they found her like that. Everybody think they gonna be something they not. Everybody think they got these big plans." That's exactly what Rust says about how everyone has a "life trap."

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 20, 2014, 03:46:14 PM
SPOILERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ycIQfNYsgk

This recap was interesting, because there is Tuttle and underage prostitute:

(http://i.imgur.com/9TGFsqW.jpg) (http://imgur.com/9TGFsqW)

Was she the person that Rust found in reports on computer?

(http://i.imgur.com/miLQsGK.jpg) (http://imgur.com/miLQsGK)

E.g. Born in 1979, would be sixteen in 1995.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on February 21, 2014, 08:45:08 PM
I can't stop thinking about this show. I'm noticing antlers, horns and deer imagery in other shows.


The following is something I've noticed. It may be spoilers or may be nothing. Read at your own risk.



 

I hadn't notice Marty not wearing his wedding ring on the 2012 interviews. I've gone back and seen he actually looks at his ringless finger multiple times. It wasn't subtle but didn't realize it until the post by Pubrick. But while looking I notice Marty is also wearing a rather large ring on his right ring finger.

In the original pilot script, it mentions the chief is wearing a knights of columbus ring he likes to rub. The chief is ringless in the episode but Billie Lee Tuttle is rubbing a ring on his finger. While being introduced, Marty stares intently at Tuttle. Marty then touches the large ring on his right hand at the exact moment before shaking Tuttle's Hand. Tuttle then stares directly at Marty and tells him, "I don't need to tell men of your positions there is a war happening behind things. Thank you for doing your part."

I then went through the pilot trying to get a clear look at Marty's ring. I couldn't get a clear look but I did notice that Billie Lee Tuttle is wearing almost the exact same tie Marty is wearing at the crime scene.

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kellen on February 22, 2014, 06:02:57 PM
I stumbled across this on another board -- probably nothing but who knows...

(http://i.imgur.com/lgGlyyk.jpg)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on February 22, 2014, 06:18:15 PM
His daughter is a serial killer! Everyone is a serial killer in purgatory!
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kellen on February 23, 2014, 11:49:51 PM
true detective: inside episode #6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGFusBrZdk


Sucks that we only have two more episodes left.  :yabbse-sad:
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on February 24, 2014, 07:16:46 AM
A good article about True Detective lack of originality and emptiness: 

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/03/03/140303crte_television_nussbaum

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 24, 2014, 07:28:01 AM
1x06 SPOILERS

(http://i.imgur.com/MX1zt7Pl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/MX1zt7P)

Marty is a Cowboy alright, "screwing like teenager". At least reason why this was shown is previous episode is clear now.

(http://i.imgur.com/fEksGEEl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/fEksGEE)

Tunney Morgan v Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) in frame?

(http://i.imgur.com/AvePWtDl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/AvePWtD)

Intentions of Marty are bit unclear for me here. On hand he could think that Rust has something to do with murders. On the other hand, Hart so far has being doing opposite of what his been telling to detectives or things he did say about Rust did apply to him instead. "He is past whole deal after 10 years" - I'm not so convinced about that. Great writing as ambiguity here provides a lot of tension.

(http://i.imgur.com/pwKR1Nhl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/pwKR1Nh)

I don't think we have seen yet Cohle so vulnerable, after he was used as cheating device. I want to discuss this last, because after this only thing left for him is his obsession. I wouldn't be totally surprised if there ain't no case. Other interesting scene in episode related to that: advising suicide to baby killer. What did happen to the his daughter? That mixed with "contemplating self crucifixion" and "jumping to conclusions" provides a lot of room for situation, where Rust could carry anxieties of the past onto the Yellow King.

I was watching "The Pervert's Guide to Cinema" few days ago, where Zizek talked about "The Birds" and how obstacles/tensions/fears in horror are often materialized as monsters of some kind. I'm probably 100% wrong, but being thought provoked by TV series to such a degree is a great feel.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 24, 2014, 07:40:13 AM
A good article about True Detective lack of originality and emptiness: 

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/03/03/140303crte_television_nussbaum

This boils down to weak female characters and I can agree with that. I see it as a larger issue, especially in American TV. Danish "Borgen" or French "Spiral" both have amazing female characters, so it can be done and still appeal to male audience. Does this takes away from "True Detective"? Not for me, since it is only 8 episodes and it can turn out that in next season, main characters will be female.

Is this article from future: March 3, 2014?

btw. Enjoy watching "Deadwood", which has to be one of the most misogynist series ever ;)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on February 24, 2014, 08:44:30 AM
SPOILERS

Yeah, on Deadwood some characters beat women and on True Detective they same them, but Deadwood has Trixie, Mrs Garret, Calamity Jane and Joanie : all way more interesting than all the characters on True Detective. But anyway.

Time is a flat circle and all that let's fuck a young woman again and get revenge sex at the end. I like the show, but this episode was just ridiculous...This show is about its atmosphere, episode 5 was very good. But this one was just about revenge sex...Flat circle and flat episode. Doing a whole episode about a mariage that is poorly written was not a good idea.

Still excited to see what they'll do with their Yellow King.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 24, 2014, 09:17:54 AM
all way more interesting than all Yeah, on Deadwood some characters beat women and on True Detective they same them, but Deadwood has Trixie, Mrs Garret, Calamity Jane and Joanie : all way more interesting than all the characters on True Detective.

I probably should let go and do something else than arguing about this. If I need to hold "True Detective" as empty for not having strong female character and going into monologues, how that would reflect onto series like "Breaking Bad", which has similar faults? If one male writer on its own can't write an interesting women in 8 episodes, what about whole writing room and 5-6 seasons? But anyway.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Lottery on February 24, 2014, 09:41:28 AM
Yeah, I felt the events of this episode were kinda weak despite its typical high quality of craft. I didn't expect it to be better than the previous episode but I hoped it would be so. But whatever, it's was a good watch overall and sets up the next episode for some interesting happenings.


But seriously as soon as I heard in the earlier eps that the their relationship had dissolved, I prayed it wouldn't be the result of what happened in tonight's episode. That specific event. But what can you do?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on February 24, 2014, 10:31:15 AM
all way more interesting than all Yeah, on Deadwood some characters beat women and on True Detective they same them, but Deadwood has Trixie, Mrs Garret, Calamity Jane and Joanie : all way more interesting than all the characters on True Detective.

I probably should let go and do something else than arguing about this. If I need to hold "True Detective" as empty for not having strong female character and going into monologues, how that would reflect onto series like "Breaking Bad", which has similar faults? If one male writer on its own can't write an interesting women in 8 episodes, what about whole writing room and 5-6 seasons? But anyway.

First: I didn't say that a show couldn't be about men and absolutely needed women.
Breaking Bad has one female character and even if the show isn't about her (or anyone else except Walt as the last season taught us) Skyler isn't as flat as Marty's wife. And she's supposed to be important, right? This story has eight episodes and tries to tell the end of a marriage.
Surprise: the fucked up cop fuck young chicks (fucking gorgeous chicks who just want to fuck him, but let's not write about him having a relationship with someone; they're young and want to fuck hum: it should be enough.)
Surprise: his wife fucks Cohle (who's just there since episode one waiting to fuck Cohle, they weren't subtle about that.)

Where the show has something interesting to say, it's about his daughters : I loved the time gap last week, where Marty realized that he lost what was important.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 24, 2014, 11:32:48 AM
SPOILERS

And she's supposed to be important, right? This story has eight episodes and tries to tell the end of a marriage.

Surprise: the fucked up cop fuck young chicks (fucking gorgeous chicks who just want to fuck him, but let's not write about him having a relationship with someone; they're young and want to fuck hum: it should be enough.)
Surprise: his wife fucks Cohle (who's just there since episode one waiting to fuck Cohle, they weren't subtle about that.)

It seems trivial in the way you describe it, I see it in a bit different way. Some quotes from the show:

Rust: I don't think that man can love.

Marty: Yeah, I'll tell you guys and believe me, past a certain age, a man without a family can be a bad thing.

In a way it is exact opposite of what they want. Relation between Rust and Marty works as a story, because they are in stark contrast. There is a bit hypocrisy in what they say over and over again: Marty talking about importance of rules and breaking almost all of them and Rust talking about consciousness being an error in human evolution, yet behaving very strict.

Why their friendship works? I think one wants to be the other. It is pretty clear after sex scene that Rust was looking for something more than sex: being close to somebody else, having a family, mowing lawn. Marty on the other hand doesn't want to grow up and settle with family: he wants to be a Cowboy.

If you look at marriage dissolve as just divorce, it is trivial. "True Detective" as of episode 6, for me is about lives of two detectives, their personalities, believes and differences between them. In a way both Rust and Marty are cowards, because they cannot honestly acknowledge what they want from live.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on February 24, 2014, 01:49:00 PM
im not as eloquent as you guys but here goes
considering the length of this season, i think last nights episode was completely necessary.
i understand exactly where some of yall are coming from with the marriage thing, and with this episode being not as good as the last, but i don't agree. i think this show does not assume anything from its viewers, and it doesnt really care if you like what it does or not. the show seems to be in its universe, it has its own rules of structure, dialogue, and narrative, and i accept all of it.

and that last shot of last episode? yall cant tell me you didnt get that feeling, you know, when you see that one final shot and it just grabs your chest in the simplest way.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on February 24, 2014, 03:04:22 PM
I wasn't as down on this episode as everyone else seems to be. The last two episodes were intense. There is only two episodes left. The final two episodes have to build to the ending. This episode needed to set it up while also bringing us back down to earth so it can take us where it wants. If the show was at level 10 for the final 5 episodes then the ending wouldn't be as dramatic. We needed to be back at a reasonable level.

I too feel like I should ignore the argument but as soon as a show gets remotely popular there's an article complaining about weaknesses. They did it with breaking bad. They did it with Game of Thrones. I'm sure they did it with other shows.  I was among the many that complained about Laurie on The Walking Dead.

Skyler isn't as flat as Marty's wife.

Skyler was a flat character until the writers had time to expand her. She was flat for the entire first season cause the writers had to focus so much on Walt and his transformation. They expanded Skyler along with the other Breaking Bad characters once they had established Walt. That's not a bad thing. They had to do that cause the story's success depended establishing Walt.

I don't think Maggie is flat. I immediately knew who Maggie is as a wife, mother and woman. I didn't need much set up cause the actor and director knew Maggie. I'm sure with a lesser actor and a lesser director Maggie would be flat. The talent is able to overcome it.

And she's supposed to be important, right?

She's not as important as you seem to think. She's a secondary character not the third lead.

This story has eight episodes and tries to tell the end of a marriage.

It's not called True Marriage. The story has 8 episodes to tell 17 years of two detective's investigation into a murder while expanding into their lives. Rust and Marty's partnership is 100 times more important than Marty's marriage.

The article mentioned The Good Wife and other shows. How is that comparable? Those show are about a woman and the end of their marriages. Of course there is more focus on the wife and the breakup. Why hasn't the Good Wife had any focus on Satanic murders in the Bayou?

I also don't understand people being upset that the marriage ended over infidelity and that Marty cheating is obvious. That's the kind of guy he is. He's "just a regular dude with a big ass dick."  That's how he describes himself. Did you think he was a faithful husband after he said that?  Did really you think Marty changed his ways and would never cheat again?

People cheat and marriages end. It's not obvious. Its what happens. Something like over 40% of marriages have dealt with infidelity. It's dealing with something common in relationships.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on February 24, 2014, 04:05:56 PM
Ignoring women may be the show’s blind spot, but it is also one of its major themes.
via http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2014/02/true_detective_the_women_on_the_show_are_treated_badly_but_there_s_a_good.html
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kellen on February 24, 2014, 04:26:30 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/sTScOz2.png)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on February 25, 2014, 06:53:43 AM
Can we have one fucking show that doesn't get ruined by the feminist equal opportunity brigade??

I can't believe what I'm reading with these criticisms. It's the same shit I've been hearing my whole life about Kubrick.

If these women and white knights are so bloody insistent on making every single show 50% equal screentime/importance to women they should make their own masterpiece. Good luck making it realistic or interesting when the entire premise of the show is about the psychological perspective of two MEN in a patriarchal oppressive environment.

The hard fucking truth is that when addressing certain phenomena of the 20th century, especially serial killings in the religious south, it necessarily is going to depict women in a state of powerlessness. The show addresses that. More importantly it addresses the conflict these two men have in their own macho world guided by rank and aggressor-ruler tactics.

Cohle is highly aware of this. And he would see it as a sick improvement if it only stopped at female oppression. Instead in their world (quite believable in many respects, exactly because it stays true to their contrasting mindset) it goes beyond gender and into targeting the weakest in society, the children. Rust says himself in this latest ep, in a very telling line, "you, you people, this place. It's like you eat your fucking young and that's all good as long as you've got something to salute."

The show is largely about anger and helplessness, it shows irrational solutions to irrational problems. Look at the beat down Marty gave those punks, he thought he was restoring order. The truth is his daughter wanted it that way, just like the matriarch whore told him at he caravan brothel, that what angers him is that they are having it in a way he doesn't get to decide. It's a tough sell to say that's feminist girl power personified but they are irrational circumstances and there is dramatic truth in the way it affects him. His philandering with the girl prostitute turned T-mobile sales girl is really sick in the perverted way he is reconciling his daughters transgressions thru Beth by first perceiving of Beth as an innocent victim and then approving of her making a whore out of HIM now that she's left the game.

I'm sick of whingeing feminists and knee jerk reactionists who think that any work of artists has to represent a utopian ideal when in fact the artist only reflects their own human truth. Would these same fucktards complain that Picasso didn't paint enough men? Or that Hamlet should've been Hamlet and His Twin Sister Hamletta? Let's decry DaVinci for not making Jesus a woman or Mona Lisa a more obvious transsexual.

These ignorant blogs and vapid opinion pieces by idiots is part of a bigger problem in modern culture: no one believes in art, no one understands artistic truth, no one can tell you the meaning of anything because we've been told there is no meaning only agendas. Not everything is a political campaign. Some things still possess integrity.

I look forward to talking about the actual show and not the malcontents trying to bring it down to a boring level. That last shot of ep 6 in particular I think will prove to be very foretelling. The brake light is broken and we're strapped in, there's no stopping this train. It acknowledges the transitional pause we all felt in this episode.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Alexandro on February 25, 2014, 09:36:04 AM
great post, pubrick. I laughed out loud with "hamletta".
I really like the show, and so far the only problem I have with it is the way they solved what "went down between them". I also thought they would surprise us with that one, but one for the most obvious choice.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Punch on February 25, 2014, 10:29:39 AM
Pubrick

True Detective is great so far, i think Emily Nussbaum criticism is weak and seems to not get the show. Also all of these reviews hacking away at one particular thing isn't good criticism even feminist bell hooks doesn't write such reviews, but i don't think these voices should be completely disregarded. you have to admit a constant portrayal of women as weak, needy and bitchy through these mediums is detrimental and should be criticized. you speak as if the playing field is even and women can just go out and make these "masterpieces" its not.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on February 25, 2014, 11:55:52 AM
Not sure if I'm alone on this, but I thought the last 3 episodes were vastly superior. (Spoilers ahead.) The biker gang plot and the confrontation with Ledoux were the best television I've seen since BB ended. Escape from the ghetto was masterful.

Let me get some nitpicking out of the way, then I'll have some more nice things to say at the end...

I did have problems with the first 3 episodes. Not that I care much anymore, because the show has more than redeemed itself, but it's worth noting.

The interviews felt especially crude when they were used mechanistically to develop the lead characters. Let's be honest, it got tiresome for a stretch. There’s a lot of subtext as text, a lot of telling instead of showing. Sometimes they even tell before they show, then tell some more. For example, how much content was dedicated to the scene where Cohle shows up drunk for dinner? We had interviews with Cohle, interviews with Marty, a scene of them discussing it in the car the next day, and the actual scene in its entirety, which itself contains more than enough exposition. That’s just too much. Not everything needs to be comprehensively spelled out for us through dialogue. The script was like a super-efficient subtext-draining machine.

I've tried my best to ignore the police procedural cliches, but they can be fairly distracting. It's disheartening that this show decided not to sidestep them. They even employ the "find a body within the next 2 days or I'm pulling you from this case!" device, which I thought had been pounded into the ground by The Wire. At least The Wire put some effort into making it believable; here it's just a tossed-off way to create artificial urgency. In general, the procedural content felt like a collection of things from Dexter, The Wire, and The Killing... which I was not expecting. The institutional corruption plot feels a little bit borrowed from The Wire too. (Seeing actors from The Wire in this show certainly encourages the comparison.)

Anyway...

Some of the feminist critiques are valid, but I don't think they realize that Maggie is actually one of the show's best characters. And she's kind of been great from the start. She of course was never really fooled by Marty. She not only picked up on his cheating (before there was any evidence of it) but sensed the deterioration of his character. She's extremely sharp. He seems like a lumbering oaf in comparison, a violent primitive who is outmatched by his wife at every turn. The show is merciless on Marty for his cheating; his rationalizations that it helps keep his family life in balance are instantly revealed as absurd and misogynistic.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: MacGuffin on February 27, 2014, 07:48:35 PM
CARY FUKUNAGA WILL NOT BE BACK TO DIRECT TRUE DETECTIVE SEASON 2
The director is moving on to several planned film projects instead.
Source: IGN

HBO's True Detective will have to add finding a new director to the challenge of finding an entirely new storyline for next season. Cary Fukunaga will not return to the director’s chair for season 2. He will stay on only as an executive producer.

Critical response to True Detective has been resoundingly positive. Much of that praise has been rightly aimed at Fukunaga, who directed all eight episodes of the current season.
 
According to Deadline, Fukunaga has a bevy of film projects lined up thanks to his breakout success on HBO. Just about every studio has a deal with the emerging young talent, including Warner Bros. (a feature adaptation of Stephen King’s It), DreamWorks (Noble Assassin) and Fox, which just hired Fukunaga for an untitled contemporary war movie mid-pitch.

Fukunaga’s next film project will be Beasts of No Nation with Idris Elba.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on March 03, 2014, 06:10:01 AM
1x07 SPOILERS

It definitely feels like a third act. Tension omnipresent in previous episodes was gone for me and right now I'm perceiving this as the weakest episode so far (could change after rewatching). It reminded me a bit noir cinema and classic Hollywood, maybe it is related to some of the shots. Some examples (some types were used multiple times e.g. there were numerous shots with mirrors - I'm posting only most obvious one):

(http://i.imgur.com/75wMAgZl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/75wMAgZ)

Multiple expositions.

(http://i.imgur.com/hP3YfSpl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hP3YfSp)

Invisible wall.

(http://i.imgur.com/OJHMdEYl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/OJHMdEY)

Mirror shot.

(http://i.imgur.com/MYJU26sl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/MYJU26s)

Mirror shot again.

(http://i.imgur.com/viACEdfl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/viACEdf)

Drinking booze and telling story from profile - that is a bit change from head-on interviews.

(http://i.imgur.com/HWjuwBNl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/HWjuwBN)

Frame within the frame.

You can find more, but even those prove technical values of the series yet again.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: cine on March 03, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
Spoilers




Remus knows the whole coast.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on March 03, 2014, 12:39:39 PM

Not a strong episode. The season has played out much more like a novel. I think it's been one of the strengths of the show. Last night's episode was when it was a weakness. As a chapter in a book, it wouldn't come off as weak but as a penultimate episode of a tv season it didn't work. If it was the 6th or 5th episode rather than the 7th of 8, I don't think it would have been much of a problem. It's just too close to the end.

I think it shows the inexperience of the show creator. His only previous experience writing a couple of episodes of The Killing. He worked on the first season of The Killing and is now a show runner and writing an entire show by himself.

The success of the season will ultimately be how the show ends. It's gonna have to payoff big cause it has been promising a lot.

I'm gonna have to go back to episode 3 and look at the guy mowing the lawn at the school. Was it the same guy at the end of last night's episode?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on March 03, 2014, 01:10:05 PM
I'm gonna have to go back to episode 3 and look at the guy mowing the lawn at the school. Was it the same guy at the end of last night's episode?

I'll save you the trouble; it was.

And did you all notice the way he was mowing that lawn? Fucking spirals, man. This show has layers for days.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Axolotl on March 03, 2014, 03:51:26 PM
And did you all notice the way he was mowing that lawn? Fucking spirals, man. This show has layers for days.
I thought that's the optimal way of mowing your lawn? But it was neat.

This is starting to disappoint me. Lots of superfluous dialogue, redundant information reiterated.  A big clue that the pacing of this season is off is that suddenly every thread they pull seems to be unraveling the case way too fast and too neatly.
I hope it's redeemed by the finale.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 04, 2014, 06:31:47 PM
I agree with Axolotl. My main problem with the episode was the mind-numbing fashion in which some of the procedural content was delivered, which is to say, simply in dialogue as though it's being read. And maybe McConaughey and Harrelson were plowing through it just a little too fast. I had to rewind a couple scenes just to stay on board, and I don't think I'm that slow... I never had to do that with The Wire, which had enormously complex procedural content but was able to make it digestible almost effortlessly.

I'm slightly disappointed with the reveal. Not sure that actor is strong enough... he kind of botched that line and his accent sounds approximately like Rick from The Walking Dead. Also, not really scarry enough or giant enough. Maybe it was the lighting. I found Reggie Ledoux significantly creepier.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: cine on March 04, 2014, 09:06:26 PM
This is starting to disappoint me. Lots of superfluous dialogue, redundant information reiterated.  A big clue that the pacing of this season is off is that suddenly every thread they pull seems to be unraveling the case way too fast and too neatly.
I hope it's redeemed by the finale.

I agree with Axolotl. My main problem with the episode was the mind-numbing fashion in which some of the procedural content was delivered, which is to say, simply in dialogue as though it's being read. And maybe McConaughey and Harrelson were plowing through it just a little too fast. I had to rewind a couple scenes just to stay on board, and I don't think I'm that slow... I never had to do that with The Wire, which had enormously complex procedural content but was able to make it digestible almost effortlessly.

I'm slightly disappointed with the reveal. Not sure that actor is strong enough... he kind of botched that line and his accent sounds approximately like Rick from The Walking Dead. Also, not really scarry enough or giant enough. Maybe it was the lighting. I found Reggie Ledoux significantly creepier.

i'm starting to think this is a parody thread. you guys weren't really that over-analytical of episode 7, were you? holy cow haha.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on March 04, 2014, 10:06:08 PM
^ lol.

but anyway yes this was a weird episode.
these past two have been significantly different in a way that we can all agree we haven't liked as much as those prior, but still have liked in some ways. this may sound naive or delusional, but i think it means that he's trying to get some of this shit out of the way so the finale can just be incredibly satisfying. this is pretty short for a season when it's not going to continue, so i think by logic (especially when you include a first time-ish director) the pacing is gonna be kind of funky.
but i have enough faith in this show that the last episode will be crazy amazing. and if not, we still have some of the best episodes tv has ever seen, so fuck it.

now onto SPOILERS:

weird things about this episode:
- hart's reaction to the video, did anyone else think it was kind of done improperly?
- dude at the end, i had to read this thread after watching the episode twice to realize that it was the spaghetti monster. how shitty as fuck can you be at reveals? i mean i thought it maybe was supposed to be him but he was the opposite of what we've been GRAPHICALLY told he is like. like over and over and over. scars and scars. i had to push my face to the screen to see that shit almost, and i'm not stupid or blind. and yes the accent was awful.
- i may be lost but the second to last scene of them holding the sheriff at gunpoint seems ridiculously out of character for marty. i mean, i dont see the motive for him being this 'fuck it' at this point. did rust really convince him to get on board enough to do something that drastic and with that much consequence? just seemed weird to me, tell me if i'm wrong.

AWESOME things about this episode:
- mirror shots
- crazy framing
- dialogue between two investigators in the car at the end, probaly the most hilarious dialogue of this show. 'there aint nothin to see' lol
- the video tape, how much of it we don't see
- rust recreating his storage unit in essentially, marty's storage unit.
- rust asking about marty's life, and seeing present day rust in general outside of people he doesn't trust.

overall, a necessary episode that will never top the first three or so, but excites the shit out of me for the finale.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on March 05, 2014, 01:20:15 AM
- i may be lost but the second to last scene of them holding the sheriff at gunpoint seems ridiculously out of character for marty. i mean, i dont see the motive for him being this 'fuck it' at this point. did rust really convince him to get on board enough to do something that drastic and with that much consequence? just seemed weird to me, tell me if i'm wrong.

Until proven otherwise, I'm assuming they're carrying out an awesome plan that will ultimately make perfect sense.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 05, 2014, 10:43:39 AM
I do buy Marty's new trajectory, actually. He's a primitive. He has acted upon his feelings violently, how many times so far? Many times. All he needed was the video tape. Seeing that smoking gun after being highly skeptical would certainly inspire a shift.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on March 05, 2014, 11:10:11 AM
All the answers are here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8zTSDFiI24

I'm wondering if the show will use its paranormal vibe in the finale or if it will be Rust and Cohle chasing a multinational of psychopaths. Excited. This finale is important.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Axolotl on March 05, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
Wish I hadn't seen that.
Don't watch the video guys, it gives away everything. Spoiler that shit, Drenk.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Fernando on March 05, 2014, 12:26:37 PM
like P has said, why would you watch anything before the finale? most of the times it ruins everything, of course I'm dying to see all that stuff, but I rather wait ONE WEEK to see/read all the teasers/theories...

anyway...I might be in the minority that has liked every single episode, some better than others but still, maybe it's because I'm not over analytical about them til the end.

my only worry right now is that 1 hour doesn't seem enough to wrap the story.

I do buy Marty's new trajectory, actually. He's a primitive. He has acted upon his feelings violently, how many times so far? Many times. All he needed was the video tape. Seeing that smoking gun after being highly skeptical would certainly inspire a shift.

completely agree, seeing that tape made him even set aside all the bs that happened with Rust many years ago, once he gets passed that I totally believe his behavior.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on March 05, 2014, 12:34:59 PM
just to clarify, since i had a personal debate with myself before finally watching the video: it's a joke
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on March 05, 2014, 01:21:21 PM
my only worry right now is that 1 hour doesn't seem enough to wrap the story.

I have that worry as well. I don't need or expect a conclusion that ties up everything neatly but don't want a conclusion that feels unfinished. One episode has a lot to wrap up with the story.

That was one of the reasons I felt the last episode was lacking. I felt the story should be closer to a conclusion. Rust has been back in Louisiana for two years investigating but other than pictures/video he doesn't have any new information. He doesn't have anything we as viewers haven't suspected ourselves. We thought about the man with scars being the spaghetti monster. We knew Fontenot was not taking by her father.

It would have been better if everything Rust and Marty learned in episode 7 was things Rust already knew. Rust already knew about who was the officer on the Fontenot girl. Rust already knew about the Ledoux connections. He already knew about Sam Tuttle having multiple families. Sam Tuttle's grandson is the man with scars. All that could have been laid out in the first quarter/third of the episode in the garage instead of spending the rest of the episode learning it. Then the rest of the episode could have them interrogating the guy on the boat.

I do like where the story is going though. The idea of a powerful man having two or more families. One family is respected and powerful. The other is a bunch of degenerates but the two families get together to perform satanic rituals, abuse and kill women and children.

- dude at the end, i had to read this thread after watching the episode twice to realize that it was the spaghetti monster. how shitty as fuck can you be at reveals? i mean i thought it maybe was supposed to be him but he was the opposite of what we've been GRAPHICALLY told he is like. like over and over and over. scars and scars. i had to push my face to the screen to see that shit almost, and i'm not stupid or blind. and yes the accent was awful.

My thought was that they purposely didn't make it a great reveal cause it would have been redundant to the reveal of Ledoux. I wasn't surprised that the scars aren't as bad as we were lead to believe. The first episode Marty warns Rust not to get tunnel vision. I think that's why Rust or me didn't recongnize him when he was mowing the lawn at the school. We've built it up and was expecting a monster but it was a soft spoken guy. It was all done to contrast Ledoux. We have the two extremes of monsters.

- i may be lost but the second to last scene of them holding the sheriff at gunpoint seems ridiculously out of character for marty. i mean, i dont see the motive for him being this 'fuck it' at this point. did rust really convince him to get on board enough to do something that drastic and with that much consequence? just seemed weird to me, tell me if i'm wrong.

I'm under the impression both Marty and Rust know they are on a suicide mission. We know for sure Rust is only doing this cause he wants to kill himself. He owed a debt and has to pay it before he can kill himself. He alluded to it after Marty told him about finding the baby in the microwave. Maggie is also worried that Marty wont come out of it unharmed. We also see that the two men don't have anything to live for anymore. The mirrored scenes that show how empty both of their lives are now.

EDIT:
McConaughey Reveals the Four Stages of 'True Detective' Rustin Cohle

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/mcconaughey-reveals-the-four-stages-of-true-detective-rustin-cohle-20140304 (http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/mcconaughey-reveals-the-four-stages-of-true-detective-rustin-cohle-20140304)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 07, 2014, 01:33:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHWLpJRlBYA
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on March 08, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
http://www.theonion.com/articles/true-detective-fan-develops-elaborate-theory-he-wi,35470/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/true-detective-fan-develops-elaborate-theory-he-wi,35470/)

‘True Detective’ Fan Develops Elaborate Theory He Will Be Let Down By Season Finale

LANSING, MI—Claiming that the clues have been in plain sight all along, local man and diehard True Detective fan Spencer Adams, 34, told reporters Friday he has developed an elaborate theory that he will be incredibly disappointed by the show’s upcoming season finale. “If you’ve been paying close attention to each episode so far, everything points to the fact that we’re headed for a huge disappointment this Sunday,” said Adams, citing as supporting evidence the impossibly high expectations scattered throughout the crime drama’s first seven episodes and listing off a labyrinthine catalog of loose ends and unresolved plot threads that, according to his hypothesis, the HBO series cannot possibly wrap up in the season’s final 60 minutes. “I’ve been watching every shot, every cutaway intently—sometimes viewing the same episodes three or four times each—and the signs are all there: the increasingly convoluted story, the massive amounts of filler in the more recent episodes, the numerous occult references that we clearly aren’t going to get a proper explanation for. All of that makes a satisfying ending virtually impossible, and if you’ve carefully followed every onscreen moment like I have, you’ll see they’ve been making that obvious from the very start.” Adams also noted that the show has been dropping numerous hints as to the arc of its planned second season, namely that the producers will be unable to cast leads on par with Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson and that Adams will then stop watching.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: wilder on March 08, 2014, 05:24:49 PM
I agree with this - I Don't Need True Detective to Solve Its Crime - Vulture (http://www.vulture.com/2014/03/true-detective-doesnt-need-to-solve-its-crime.html)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kellen on March 09, 2014, 11:21:24 PM
SPOILERS in here for anyone that didn't see it yet. (or  HBOGO crapped out on them)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE2n-nwiqDs
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on March 10, 2014, 06:51:50 AM
shit ending.

more disappointing than Breaking Bad.

what the fuck happened to this show in the last episode?

it was betrayed by an inexperienced team.

and i loved every episode, even 6 and 7, where others dismissed it.

major problems:

- so Matt McGhey took the role of Rust not because it was the complete opposite of him, but so he could make a convert out of the most hardened atheist. was his final monologue serving as supplementary material for his oscar speech? weird criticism, sure, but i think it strikes at the about-face the show does in the last episode.

- is marty trying to be the dark one when he says that the dark has more territory, and then when rust says he thinks light's winning it's supposed to show that they kind of switched roles a little bit? that he has hope? fuckkkkkkk.  that is hokey. that is so freaking lame. it's like ending the film with a warm platitude like "that'll do detective, that'll do."

- TOO NEAT. the whole thing tied up TOO NEATLY. despite the loose ends they acknowledge in that they didn't catch them all, the prevailing impression is that everything is pretty fine and dandy. black detectives believed them, media found out, heroes again, marty's family reunites, rust even reunites with his freaking daughter in "heaven".

- by the time they got to Carcosa it was too late, everything leading to that point was almost textbook cop drama. the stupid typing on the laptop that magically brought up all the answers and connections, the serendipitous and spontaneous association of a little detail, the green ears, with fresh green paint on the picture. Marty's entire role in this episode was as a foil, he really didn't do anything. and then to top it all off the main bad dude is nothing more than a hack em slash em killer. if they were going to be so generic they could at least have give him a good final monologue. anything. but nah hey i'll just stab you guys haha done oops i'm dead too..

nic pizza and cary fukushima, you did good kiddos, some amazing episodes in there, some of the best TV has ever seen. it's the best we could expect from first timers. it'll do pizza shima, it'll do.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on March 10, 2014, 07:49:56 AM
SPOILERS

Rust is wrong. The art department is winning.

And the heroes killed the crazy dude in his crazy castle.

If Marty's wife were the Detective, the show would have lasted two episodes.

A'right A'righ 'Aright.

The question now is: who'll direct next season?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: diggler on March 10, 2014, 10:51:46 AM
I thought Rust's last monologue was a little awards show bait-ish, but I like that they ended on an upbeat note. The show was so dour that a little hope in the end worked for me. Marty being the one to crack the case was a nice touch, and played into the "fresh eyes" thing. I was expecting a little more from the final showdown, but that whole sequence was expertly paced. I suppose in the end the show managed to make me care about the characters more than the case, which is something LOST never managed to do. Looking forward to Season 2.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on March 10, 2014, 11:04:07 AM
Quote
True Detective’s first season is an attempt to solve for a void. It contemplates a conundrum with so little hope of being answered that anything not sitting on the plane of the problem is flattened out until it approaches nothingness. You’ve perhaps heard the theory that objects pulled into a black hole flatten out into dim streaks of what they once were, collections of atoms spread out into things that were but no longer are. That’s how the central mystery on True Detective acts for its two main characters: They stare at it so long and race toward it so quickly that they are unable to perceive the atoms that make up anybody or anything else. They’re constantly being sucked into a space between spaces.

In both its best and worst moments, the first season of True Detective was an earnest paean to the things that exist in that negative space. It often felt as if the series took this tack thanks to the direction of Cary Joji Fukunaga, who directed all eight of the season’s episodes. Like a diligent student of the horror genre, Fukunaga was fond of filling the screen with things that weren’t seen, with darkness or emptiness that might contain the monsters at the end of the book, but, more likely than not, were simply the normal, non-supernatural darkness we find ourselves in every night. The season was always at its best when giving rise to possibility, to ideas of elemental corruption that proved more potent than the things that actually arrived. Perhaps, that is why so many cried foul on Twitter when the series’ central boogeyman was revealed to be simply some guy with a lawn mower and an ancestral estate that seemed to consist of nothing but negative space.

There were times when True Detective bit off more than it could chew in its first season, but it did so in the way overambitious first-season shows that don’t always know their own limitations often do. Particularly in the season’s lackluster sixth and seventh episodes—when creator and writer of all eight episodes Nic Pizzolatto dropped the mesmerizing framing device that held the first five episodes together and allowed for many a moment of unreliable narration—the show seemed to be solving its central mystery because it felt it had to, not because it had any particular desire to. It hinted and suggested at grand, overarching explanations for everything that happened, then, again, boiled down largely to one guy (albeit a terrifying guy). This sometimes created the sense that the show was two different stories on two different tracks, a surface one where everything was explainable and a deeper one, where everything was terrifyingly inexplicable. Everything about the show—its mystery, its storytelling technique, its approach to character development—was an iceberg, and it could have felt unsatisfying to have the heroes catch only its tip.

The most frequent criticism about this season has been its lack of “well-defined” female characters. This is a misleading statement. That there are no “well-defined” female characters on True Detective is the point. Both Marty Hart (Woody Harrelson) and Rust Cohle (Matthew McConaughey) are so trapped in a mire of dead bodies and snuffed-out lives that they are unable to see outside of themselves long enough to realize that the other people in their midst—male and female alike—that are living, breathing human beings who still need them. (This is particularly true when it comes to Marty and his wife and daughters.) Think, again, of that black hole. The closer Marty and Rust get to it, the more everybody else they know is a dim smear they can barely see for lack of light.

What I think these criticisms touch on that was a problem with the series was that it seemed slightly too impressed with its own originality, when it wasn’t doing anything (or offering up any characters) that several other series hadn’t already offered before. (Nearly everything here, for instance, is being done with just as much—if not more—panache on NBC’s Hannibal.) Marty and Rust were riffs on types we’ve seen since the cop show became a genre, and though Pizzolatto’s monologues had a beautiful musicality to them, the characters could never escape comparisons to all who had gone before. Thus, it became far too easy to go casting about for other figures within the series and not find them. The purposeful way that Pizzolatto built the supporting characters’ purposelessness was much easier to miss under these circumstances, and one presumes this will be the biggest course correction for season two.

Those complaints also arose, however, because True Detective could be crushingly self-serious. In its weakest hour—its seventh—it was simply a long series of scenes with characters telling each other things without any real humor or verve to lighten the mood. The season was so singularly focused on the evils that men can do—even the ostensibly good ones—that it rarely found time to leaven that tone with other ones. True Detective danced just ahead of being too stupid to believe for most of its first season, and I could understand all of those who looked at the finale and couldn’t get past, say, a long, earnest discussion between Rust and Marty about light versus dark, held underneath the stars. No matter how great the actors, no matter how great the dialogue, no matter how great the direction—it was all a little silly. Throughout the series, there were times—even in the best moments—when it felt like True Detective desperately needed Joel and the robots from Mystery Science Theater 3000 just offscreen to call it on its own bullshit.

And yet I loved True Detective in its best and worst moments, sometimes in spite of myself, and I think the exemplary finale pulled the story together in a way that befitted those first five episodes more than the two that followed. Part of the reason for this was the stellar execution, and part of it was the fact that this was just a fun, pulpy show to watch even when it turned into The Rust Cohle Explains Things Hour. Most of all, though, I think Pizzolatto, Fukunaga, and their actors were aware at all times that this whole thing was just a little ridiculous, and they rode that craziness to many of its logical conclusions. There were times in the season’s best episodes—its fourth and fifth—when it felt like all of the references to the Yellow King and Carcosa were going to lead to Cthulhu himself rising from the deeps, and it wouldn’t have fazed me one bit. The show took this material and sank its teeth into it.

Ultimately, what made this season work was its ability to hold its self-seriousness and its ridiculousness in tension for long stretches of time. It seemed to understand that the line between the heinous and the hilarious, particularly in a work of fiction, is not that hard to cross. It wasn’t a particularly funny show, though both of its stars had a fine time with the handful of one-liners parceled out to them over the course of the season, but it was a show that was able to take pure pulp material, like the idea of a cult of powerful men that preys upon women and children, and treat it with a kind of gravity that it might not get on a lot of other shows. Some part of True Detective understood that all of this was bizarre and maybe even a little goofy; the rest of it demanded that we look at these ideas with the kind of seriousness we might get out of a more straightforward crime procedural. It was a blend that could prove intoxicating.

This allowed the show to sidle up to the sorts of primal ideas that don’t always get talked about in pop culture without somebody winking off to the side to let viewers know they don’t have to take them too seriously. In its season finale, True Detective laid its final card down on the table and revealed that it didn’t want to be about just this story but about all stories—about light versus dark and good versus evil and maybe even a dash of God versus Satan. It not only talked directly about these issues, but it had the audacity to discuss it via a metaphor about stars. It was the sort of thing that would have gotten laughed out of the room in episode one, but in the finale, it was such a breath of ever-so-slight optimism that it felt strangely earned, as if the series had, by being so grim and self-serious and, yes, ridiculous, become one of the few shows on television capable of talking about these things. It wasn’t entirely a detective show; it was like an ersatz reinterpretation of Sunday School Bible stories, filtered through the lens of an incorrigible poonhound and a defeated nihilist.

In the end, that is why I liked the finale of True Detective enough to drag the whole series up significantly in my estimation: The hints of utter rot—mystical, religious, bureaucratic, and otherwise—ultimately boiled down to one man, but that was because that one man was the monster who surfaced. He was the only black hole Marty and Rust could pick out by noticing the absence at his center. (It’s telling that the detectives catch the void through a burst of color: notably, green, the traditional color of renewal.) The detective work fell by the wayside, and the heroes descended into hell, not to grab the Devil himself, but the one guy they could find. Yes, it was just the iceberg’s tip, but Marty and Rust were able to make the world slightly better by latching onto it. But what that tip stood for—the vast, stately, unspeakable bulk just beneath the surface—was ultimately unknowable and uncatchable, a darkness that was anything you wanted it to be. By embracing both its sometimes punishing self-seriousness and its tendency toward the ridiculous, True Detective found a way to season its grim story of man’s inhumanity to man with a sprinkle of optimism. But all the while, it remembers that, limbs churning underwater, Leviathan continues to swim.

http://www.avclub.com/article/void-true-detectives-completely-necessary-ridiculo-202002
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on March 10, 2014, 11:37:29 AM
nah.

this: slate's recap and debate (http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/03/10/true_detective_finale_on_hbo_form_and_void_a_recap_and_debate.html) in particular the paskin position, especially the follwing quotes:

Quote
Boy, did we overthink this thing!
...
Worse was the last character beat. I think maybe True Detective ended with Rust Cohle finding God? Talk me off the ledge.
...
One of the things I have so enjoyed about True Detective—which, let me be clear, is a show I still really love—is how all-enveloping it is. It’s a whole world, and you’re in it: the atmosphere, the green, even that ash and aluminum smell. But something about this episode just cracked that open for me, and all of pop culture came pouring in. The house Errol lived in looks so much like the mansion in The Notebook gone to seed. Having no cell phone reception is very every-horror-movie-ever. It’s like, the spell wore off and suddenly it was just a TV show.
...
I think I would be bothered a little less by this if I didn’t feel like the finale was in some ways very flabby. (It had something like five endings.)
...
And while I’m not super into the idea that major characters have to die for a TV show to be serious, it’s pretty surprising that Marty and Rust both lived, no?

if you read the whole thing i think it does a good overview of the two dominant opinions on the episode. it's funny how the other dude started coming around towards the end, admitting there's a lot about the final episode that didn't add up to anything.

and since diggler brought up LOST i think it's worth noting that this show suffers from a similar problem of initially presenting a potentially much more interesting show than it actually ends up being.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Cloudy on March 10, 2014, 12:17:46 PM
I wrote a post in here two episodes ago, but removed it because it was too early to say. But now, it's completely obvious. The show was basically "The Philosophy of Nic Pizzolato". Rather than letting the character's lead the story, Pizzolatto used techniques and devices in the last 3 episodes to get it to where he willed it. The whole show was basically an allegory for this type of philosophy. Which isn't necessarily theist at the end, but more along the lines of pessimistic gnosticism, but in a completely forced way. I not only think the show was cheesy in this last episode, but I thought eps. 1,5,6,7 were equally cheesy in the words/devices/character types (TYPES) forced by the author to unfold his ideas. Here's an example:

If anyone saw "The Counselor" by Cormac McCarthy (an author like Pizzollato) and "No Country For Old Men" and adaptation of McCarthy by Coens, those are two completely bipolar ways of letting the truth seep out of its philosophy. Counselor just felt like McCarthy used his characters as his sadistic philosophical peons, while No Country feels like each character is not serving anything more than who they truly are, which is much more full of depth than philosophical masturbation. I'd say True Detective should be placed in the middle of these two, but leaning more towards the former.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on March 10, 2014, 02:03:23 PM
I liked the ending. I'll remember the season as an overall success. I was totally creeped out watching the guy with scars hang around his house and painting schools. Knowing the characters wont be back for upcoming shows really made think one or both not make it out alive. Having Rust survive done more for his character development than anything you could have done.

The episode reminded me of the pilot. After the pilot, there was so much I wanted to learn and know about these characters that finding out who was the killer was of little importance. I think the show cared little about who was the killer was as well. Looking back I realize the show wasn't about a murder investigation. It's about Rust and Marty. It's about their relationship. The murder investigation is almost the B plot.

That's why the criticism about Marty's wife not being a fully formed character were missing the point. Look how little camera time given to Marty with his family compared to the amount of time given to Marty and Rust in the parking lot. Even the short period of time Marty's family is in the room, the camera is on Marty the entire time.  We only see him as he starts to break down. We don't see any reactions or emotions from Maggie or the girls cause it's only about Marty.

I'm really excited about the show moving forward. At first, I was disappointed with the anthology format but now can't wait to hear about the next season. I know Alejandro González Iñárritu was originally attached to direct season 1 so maybe he will direct season 2. I can't wait to meet the new characters.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on March 10, 2014, 02:49:27 PM
I didn't hate it. On its own merits, it was a pretty impressive hour of television horror. It is a little jarring, looking back over the season, how eps 1-6 felt like the same show, then episode 7 felt like a different show, and episode 8 felt like another different show entirely. Evidence of Nicky Pizza's inexperience? Yeah, maybe. It's still one of the best seasons of television ever, so big deal. Season two will blow the world's face right off its face.

That said, the season ended with Rust and Marty bleeding on the ground watching the flare light up overhead. That's it. That was the real ending. All that hospital nonsense was just some weird Christian fan-fic that they got the real actors to shoot for some reason, and should be considered entirely non-canonical.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Tictacbk on March 10, 2014, 04:22:54 PM
Just Keep Livin'
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on March 10, 2014, 04:57:05 PM
i admire everyone's optimism, and definitely understand it, but there are few ways that could have been a worse episode. it genuinely felt like fan fiction, enough to the point i wouldn't be surprised if people start writing their own better endings. as said before, it felt like a different show. i would have preferred a disappointing ending that was completely cohesive and similar with the previous episodes to whatever that was. some people tell me i built it up too much for myself, but they didn't feel like the same characters, the logic of prior eps was kind of non existent, all the little details theyve been so careful to stay mindful of were strangely forgotten. that being said, it's still probaly some of the best tv we will ever see, as a whole. redeeming things from the episode? the scene of errol quoting movies and using different accents was genuinely amazing and super creepy. the castle was perfect. so was his lady, i loved the fact that she was just hiding from him when he thought it was going to be a bunch of tied up chicks or something. almost a perfect analogy for how we all felt last night.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kellen on March 10, 2014, 06:40:08 PM
Discusses the ending & Season 2 (http://www.slashfilm.com/true-detective-season-2-plot/)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Alexandro on March 11, 2014, 02:06:25 AM
I liked the season and the ending, I thought it was tense. But I kept my expectations reasonable while some places online (here too) were massively overthinking this. I like the discussions and debates and I like that tv shows can stir up conversation like this, but there are moments when it's just obvious everyone is hungry to sink into something that is aiming for way less. True Detective worked fine, but I don't think it ever thought it was The Sopranos or even The Wire. Those are major works from birth, with a clear point of view and an artistic individual vision, and they miraculously followed it through the end. Not everything wants to be (or can be) that.

However, as a pulpy expertly made detective story, it felt like more than enough.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Axolotl on March 11, 2014, 07:00:00 AM
My disappointment was lessened because I'd realized that it wasn't the show that I mistook it to be after the first five episodes.
I agree with Alexandro for the most part, but it only became a pulpy detective story two-thirds of the way through. Before that it was so good it could have been anything the writer wanted it to be. It could have been Lovecraftian cosmic-horror stuff( btw I love how they persisted with the King in Yellow stiff till the end with Childress yelling "Take off your mask!") or it could have been a 2666 style study of irresolution and the problem of evil.
By the end it turned into a well-made procedural with a Silence of the Lambs ending.
When someone squaders that level of potential it's legitimate to be disappointed.

It also doesn't help that Pizzicato saved his worst writing for the very last scene, that hospital scene was pretty inexcusable. I almost expected them to turn to the camera and go, "You, dear viewer, are the True Detective."
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 11, 2014, 01:24:35 PM
E: This might have been embedded in that link Pubrick posted. It is now, but they might have put it in later. Strange.

A must listen!

Slate writers discuss True Detective (http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/03/10/true_detective_finale_spoilers_a_review_of_the_last_episode_of_season_1.html)

I've been plugging the Slate Spoiler Special podcast forever with zero response, so you know it's good.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 11, 2014, 02:04:25 PM
I'm having an unexpected response to the finale.

I was highly skeptical of the nihilism that characterized much of the first three episodes and many of Rust's ramblings. Turns out the show itself shares that skepticism. It pushed Rust through his nihilism as if it were an extended adolescence. I completely buy his transformative near-death experience; that is something that happens, and this character was ripe for it.

I even didn't mind all the business about stars and the dark and the light. I was reflexively eye-rolling, but at the same time it kind of got me. McConaughey carried it.

That said, the season ended with Rust and Marty bleeding on the ground watching the flare light up overhead. That's it. That was the real ending. All that hospital nonsense was just some weird Christian fan-fic that they got the real actors to shoot for some reason, and should be considered entirely non-canonical.

I think this is exactly wrong. Killing them off was the obvious choice. I was certainly expecting it to be a suicide mission after they both somberly put their affairs in order. What Pizzolatto did in essence is execute a character plot twist in place of a whodunnit plot twist, genre convention supplanted by what now seems like an inevitable character transformation.

I totally admire what was done with Rust's character. He was denied a heroic death, forced to face life again and work through all his garbage.

I can't help but be on the show's side after that.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on March 11, 2014, 02:39:20 PM
The ending just failed on every level, especially the most basic mundane logic:

It's a completely ridiculous non sequitur when marty brings up that story about the stars right after rust has given the most emotional monologue of  the series. It feelt awkward and forced.

Even if he was saying it just to distract rust from having a total breakdown, it still makes no sense that after rust takes the bait and immediately calms down, Marty then inexplicably turns the whole thing into a negative metaphor about dark having more territory. What the fuck is he doing that for?

Is he trying to cheer him up or not? He should be ecstatic that for once the weird shit rusts babbling about is almost in line with his own religious beliefs. He should be shocked that, against all expectations from Marty's previous farewell moment in the episode's 4th ending (this episode was the 'Return of the King' of TV finales with endless endings) where he said don't ever change and gave him the finger, rust actually has changed drastically.

It makes absolutely no sense except as a clumsy set up for Rust's hackneyed retort.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kellen on March 11, 2014, 03:10:35 PM
It would've been ok with me if the show ended with Marty and Rust in the catacombs/carcosa. 
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 11, 2014, 03:13:39 PM
It's a completely ridiculous non sequitur when marty brings up that story about the stars right after rust has given the most emotional monologue of  the series. It feelt awkward and forced.

Even if he was saying it just to distract rust from having a total breakdown, it still makes no sense that after rust takes the bait and immediately calms down, Marty then inexplicably turns the whole thing into a negative metaphor about dark having more territory. What the fuck is he doing that for?

Perhaps that bothered me less cause I've always found the show a bit silly. Definitely wasn't the first time the voice of the author audibly stepped in to vocalize a theme.

Is he trying to cheer him up or not? He should be ecstatic that for once the weird shit rusts babbling about is almost in line with his own religious beliefs. He should be shocked that, against all expectations from Marty's previous farewell moment in the episode's 4th ending (this episode was the 'Return of the King' of TV finales with endless endings) where he said don't ever change and gave him the finger, rust actually has changed drastically.

I don't think Rust changed much between the hospital room and the final scene. The character has found himself in a punishing situation. Rust is confused that he was denied a heroic death, and he's frustrated/devastated (in both scenes) that he can't be with his loved ones who he just contacted ("I'm not supposed to be here"). I actually kind of love that we see his sour personality mixed with his new cosmic awareness, which certainly must inherit from his old cosmic awareness.

As for Marty not jumping up and down about Rust's epiphany... that actually rang quite true to me. If I were Marty I'd play it the same way. Just be delicate about it, let this be his own thing, let him figure things out, and be supportive in a general way. He also notably doesn't react to Rust crying. In their relationship, this is a time for sincerity and sensitivity if there ever was one.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on March 11, 2014, 03:14:56 PM
True Detective: the story of a man's journey from recognizing that his hallucinations are hallucinations to believing that they're real.

I don't know. As much as I still loved the series as a whole, I can't get on board with that ending. It didn't feel like an inevitable change to me, it felt like a 180 on everything the story had actually been about this whole time. All these amazing themes of self-sacrifice, of driven men pushing themselves past the point of no return for a greater good far beyond themselves, and the cost to their very humanity inherent therein, just tossed away in the last five minutes. There was no sacrifice, save the temporary pain of being stabbed, there was only a new message, previously unimaginable within the story being told: keep on doing what you're doing and everything will work out fine in the end.

I don't have a source for this, but I've read a couple comments elsewhere mentioning that Nicky Pizza had the final scene planned out before writing any of the rest of the story, and I believe it, because that's exactly what it felt like. It was the ending he had previously decided on, not the ending to the story he had actually written. 99% of the series demonstrates that the man is a brilliant writer, one of the best to ever try his hand at television. That last 1% just shows he's not perfect.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on March 11, 2014, 05:11:38 PM
All these amazing themes of self-sacrifice, of driven men pushing themselves past the point of no return for a greater good far beyond themselves, and the cost to their very humanity inherent therein, just tossed away in the last five minutes.

Rust's epiphany & Marty's growing up don't erase their past sacrifices. Marty's family is ruined for good, and Rust is clearly permanently damaged by everything he's gone through. Did they really need to make "the ultimate sacrifice?" I'm not particularly interested in martyrdom for these characters. How boring would that have been? Satisfying in a shallow sense, but ultimately uninteresting, almost dark for darkness's sake. But this is my particular bias; the show's bleakest bleakness was never my cup of tea. It was tiresome by the end of Episode 2, and grating by the end of Episode 3.

There was no sacrifice, save the temporary pain of being stabbed, there was only a new message, previously unimaginable within the story being told: keep on doing what you're doing and everything will work out fine in the end.

I don't think any of that is true. Rust's sacrifice is strange (and maybe counterintuitive), but significant. After years of numbness and routine and so many assumptions, he's finally being confronted. His tiresome amateur philosophizing is being turned back on him, which I absolutely love. It's like the universe said okay enough rambling, you really want to know the truth about existence? See if you can deal with this.

I say it seems inevitable now because in the interview, it's clear that something is going to break, that he's done with his life in one way or another. I'm sure he would prefer to be martyred, but this outcome confronts him with something entirely unfamiliar. It also brings out an element of his character that was always there; endless reflection borne of self-doubt, of always sort of knowing that there was something else. He was primed for this.

In terms of message, as they said in the Slate podcast, the message they go out on (with the stars thing) is essentially that the glass is 1% full.

True Detective: the story of a man's journey from recognizing that his hallucinations are hallucinations to believing that they're real.

The True Detective universe is clearly one in which an afterlife exists (and in that universe his experience was not a hallucination). Instead of being repelled by that, I thought it was a bold choice that redeemed a lot of the show's past material. (Again, probably my bias.)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Cloudy on March 11, 2014, 06:02:19 PM
JB, I definitely follow you on your feelings of the end and how it was truly satisfying for it to end there for Rust after the bleakness of the first half, but the problem was in the WAY that happened. Pizzolato even said himself that he wrote the ending of the series during the time he wrote the first ep, which shows obviously how where it ended was forced upon rather than a natural conclusion through these men's natural/supernatural truths. After the 5th episode the rhythms and trajectory of the show completely changed by force to get to this end conclusion rather than to let the reality of the situation to play out.
His tiresome amateur philosophizing is being turned back on him, which I absolutely love. It's like the universe said okay enough rambling, you really want to know the truth about existence? See if you can deal with this.
^i liked this, just didn't think it unfolded in a truthful/musical manner, which is all that matters because otherwise we might as well just be writing philosophy.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on March 13, 2014, 12:37:28 PM
The article was posted on Monday but don't think anyone posted or talked about here. Pizzolatto considered supernatural endings including Rust and Marty vanishing. I was expecting a supernatural ending but completely agree with his choice of showing Rust and Marty's change. I would normally be annoyed by a nihilist character seeing the light (literally) and changing. I just never really believed Rust's philosophical ramblings. He was such a broken character troubled by his daughters death, break up of his marriage, and everything he's done undercover and on the job that it was just his coping mechanism.



http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/true-detective-creator-nic-pizzolatto-reveals-alternate-endings-why-it-wasnt-neatly-wrapped-up-20140310 (http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/true-detective-creator-nic-pizzolatto-reveals-alternate-endings-why-it-wasnt-neatly-wrapped-up-20140310)


'True Detective' Creator Nic Pizzolatto Reveals Alternate Endings & Shares Season 2 Story Details


"True Detective" has finished, and now the debate begins on its legacy. Did it live up to the promise in the first half of the season? Was the story concluded in a satisfactory manner? Is this really one of the greatest shows in TV history? We'll let you hash it out in the comments section, but in this writer's opinion, there hasn't been a TV drama this dense, rich and satisfying in a long, long time. That said, last night's finale did leave a slightly sour taste in the mouths of some. Obviously, **SPOILERS AHEAD**.

So, in "Form And Void," we saw both Rust and Martin near death, only to survive and spend the last quarter of the show involved in a discussion of light versus dark, and the meaning of the universe. As we wrote in our recap, it was a fitting and rather poetic conclusion, with both men changed from what they've experienced. But it wasn't the supernatural finale some were hoping for or tragic conclusion some expected. And writer/creator Nic Pizzolatto shares his approach and some of the other ideas he had going into the finale.

"For me as a storyteller, I want to follow the characters and the story through what they organically demand. And it would have been the easiest thing in the world to kill one or both of these guys," Pizzolatto told HitFix. "I even had an idea where something more mysterious happened to them, where they vanished into the unknown and Gilbough and Papania had to clean up the mess and nobody knows what happens to them. Or it could have gone full blown supernatural. But I think both of those things would have been easy, and they would have denied the sort of realist questions the show had been asking all along. To retreat to the supernatural, or to take the easy dramatic route of killing a character in order to achieve an emotional response from the audience, I thought would have been a disservice to the story. What was more interesting to me is that both these men are left in a place of deliverance, a place where even Cohle might be able to acknowledge the possibility of grace in the world."

And it was a smart choice, giving the finale of "True Detective" a true emotional heft (Rust's story about feeling his daughter's presence and love while on the brink of death is awards reel stuff). But perhaps vexing to many was that the conspiracy around the Tuttle churches stayed in the background and was not fully resolved. Martin even quiets Gilbough and Papania when they start explaining where the investigation has gone. But for Pizzolatto, it was all about making the show as real as possible.

"The conspiracies that I've researched and encountered, they seem to happen very ad hoc: they become conspiracies when it's necessary to have a conspiracy. I think it would have rang false to have Hart and Cohle suddenly clean up 50 years of the culture history that led to Errol Childress, or to get all the men in that video," he explained. "It's important to me, I think, that Cohle says, 'We didn't get em all, Marty,' and Marty says, 'We ain't going to. This isn't that kind of world.' This isn't the kind of world where you mop up everything. We discharged our duty, but of course there are levels and wheels and historical contexts to what happened that we'll never be able to touch."

It's a brave position to take, and a choice that leaves the world of "True Detective" as complex and unfair and haunted as it was when we entered. But now, the big question: what's happening with season two? Well, Pizzolatto is already putting pen to paper, for another conspiratorial tale, but one that seems to be more national in scope.

"Okay. This is really early, but I'll tell you (it's about) hard women, bad men and the secret occult history of the United States transportation system," the writer shared. Damn.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on March 13, 2014, 01:11:52 PM
That last bit about the second season has been posted before.

That seems to be his go-to sound bite when talking about the next season. Can't seem to find it but I'm pretty sure I made a sarcastic remark about it, that in the end those hard women will probably find a bullshit change of heart and realise that their real place is at home raising children. You know, to be consistent with the final turnaround in the first season.

I think pizza face is realising he dropped the ball when he says the alternate endings would've been the easy choice. Fuck that, the happy ending oh well we got our guy and you found God and your daughter is waiting for you blah blah ugh.. that is the most common predictable happy ending you could have shoehorned onto such a seemingly original show.

Does anyone seriously believe that after nearly 20 years on the case, obsessed with this conspiracy which strikes at the heart of everything he stands for, that Rust would just give up trying to bring the rest of the culprits to justice? That's what pizza is suggesting. He actually committed the biggest "disservice to the story" by forcing a happy ending where both characters play against the nature he's established throughout the past 7 episodes.

It's actually a compliment to his skill how badly he fucked up the ending. The main characters were so well established that even the slightest misstep rang alarm bells to those following closely. Some people disagree for personal reasons, JB for example simply never liked that nihilistic stuff Rust kept saying, but if you look at it like a proper story and not just wish fulfillment that last episode would not have made it past any script workshop.

It's infuriating. The show was perfect. It's the Quiz Kid Donnie Smith of shows, it used to be smart but now..
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on March 13, 2014, 03:32:04 PM
Children aren't angels. They're just dead.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: ©brad on March 27, 2014, 08:07:59 PM
I'm way late but I'll chime in.

Overall, it's great. Dense. Utterly watchable from episode to episode. For such a tired genre it feels new and different. It's a little self-satisfied but smart enough to get away with it. It's fascinating to see a show at the hands of a single writer and director work so well. I don't think there's any value in debating what is better, the autuer (ugh that word) vs the showrunner/writer's room model. They both can be amazing obviously. My favorite part of the show was the Rust/Marty relationship and the character work. You felt you knew these guys, which is rare on detective shows. The time passage felt so real and honest. The story spanned decades and you believe it. Structurally and from an acting standpoint, this is so hard to pull off.

In regards to the ending, I feel like the detractors are complaining more about execution than the thematic implications or anything else. I agree the dialogue in that hospital scene was a bit hamfisted, but so were most of Rust's (Pizza face's) philosophical ramblings. It didn't feel particularly out of step in that regard.

Also I think it's an overstatement to say Rust found god and saw his daugthers and understands the universe now, and that the moral of the show was keep trying and good things will happen. He is simply acknowledging the possibility of hope. To borrow an AVClub-ism, it isn't about seeing the glass half-full, but recognizing the existence of the glass and the ability for it to hold even a small amount of water. It reminds me of what David Chase said about the Sopranos finale - it's about small steps of progress. The shifting of a degree or two.

All these amazing themes of self-sacrifice, of driven men pushing themselves past the point of no return for a greater good far beyond themselves, and the cost to their very humanity inherent therein, just tossed away in the last five minutes. There was no sacrifice, save the temporary pain of being stabbed, there was only a new message, previously unimaginable within the story being told: keep on doing what you're doing and everything will work out fine in the end.

These themes are not negated by that ending. The guys have and will continue to experience sacrifice. You can't deny the emotional, physical, and psychological damage that will continue to haunt both men, and the turmoil Marty has put upon his family. They gave 20 years of life for this. They won't get those years back.

I'd like to ask what the detractors would have liked to have seen instead? (and I don't mean to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious.) For Rust to stay a cynical, nihilistic bastard? And die alone? What would be the point of the whole show then? I see it more as a hopeful ending as opposed to a happy one.  Seeing both of them not reach some kind of catharsis would have been dramatically unsatisfying. Or maybe I'm just a sucker for such endings.

Oh, and when what's his ass said this:

"Marty... this is the place."

Tell me you didn't freak the everliving fuck out. Breaking Bad-level of chills right there.




Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on March 28, 2014, 05:15:44 AM
Quote
Oh, and when what's his ass said this:

"Marty... this is the place."

Tell me you didn't freak the everliving fuck out. Breaking Bad-level of chills right there.
i did actually, i thought i was the only one, thank you.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: cine on March 29, 2014, 12:04:36 AM
I'd like to ask what the detractors would have liked to have seen instead? (and I don't mean to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious.) For Rust to stay a cynical, nihilistic bastard? And die alone? What would be the point of the whole show then? I see it more as a hopeful ending as opposed to a happy one.  Seeing both of them not reach some kind of catharsis would have been dramatically unsatisfying. Or maybe I'm just a sucker for such endings.
i was wondering this too since i was dumbfounded by the level of criticism from xixax for the final episode.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on March 29, 2014, 06:49:08 AM
For the show that avoided outright red herrings for the most part, opening of final with sheriff was just awful. At least other tricks that were used to throw audience off from the scent, had some point. Good example is Marty's daughter: it shows what impact investigation had on family, also audience shares obsession of connecting everything with detectives. What was the point of introducing sheriff? They would still get AHA "green paint" moment without it.

Why I point this out? I admire "True Detective" for escaping cage of crime-story, yet two last episodes are by far most conventional for this genre. It isn't only problem with ending, but also how we got there. Red herring that I pointed out is good example, there are also other extreme tropes like magic computer typing. I probably could live with it, if it was mid-season, but finale?

Marty telling that he is fine in hospital was emotional peak in finale for me. The last dialogue on the other hand - it felt like Spielberg-type ending to me (ending of the ending, where someone doesn't know where to stop). You can argue that most of monologues, where full of wisdom that writer wanted to convey and ending was no exception. The difference for me was that before this wisdom-telling underlined omnipresent tension - smell of aluminum and ash. Cathartic moment? Not for me, since buildup leading to last moment was very conventional and I felt like I have seen that before somewhere else with writer calming down his children and saying its alright at the end.

Alternative ending I could think of: "Paperboy" film anyone?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Neil on March 30, 2014, 08:56:15 PM
I've been considering the parallels that can be drawn between Nietzsche and Rust.  Some of you are too dismissive for such heavy concepts or as far as the philosophy in the show comes across, but I wouldn't expect anything else. After all, most people think they can be reductive with philosophy/philosophers in general and they couldn't be more wrong.  So, I just want to say a couple things quickly that i'll probably regret later.


1. Nietzsche, much like rust, is the type of person who speaks to us in aphorisms and makes statements (bold ones) based on self reflection. Let me also point out, Nietzsche suggests that one should live the life of a murderer, however you MUST deal with consequences.  The tail end of the previous sentence is very important to consider because most people just look at Nietzsche as a cynic, but again there's something more important going on there, you must deal with your choices. 

With Nietzsche we see a philosophical approach that is unique. By this i mean, it differs from the classical structure that was built by Platonic schools of thought (and even sophism and other pre socratic schools) and was also continued/enhanced by Aristotelian thought as well.  Rust is not only a man of action, and a man who's ready to deal with the consequences of his actions, he is also a man who isn't interested in the traditional approach of policing to solve this particular problem. He knows that the system at hand is broken so he must go above the system to solve the problems at hand.  One could make a similar summary about Nietzsche as well.  Rust decides to go rogue, outside of dominant paradigm, and it's important to note because this does not follow the tradition of police work either, much like Nietzsche refused to follow the traditional path of philosophizing the way the ancients did, despite how well versed he was in them.


2.  This show is very much Arnold vs. Nietzsche. More on this later, if I don't decide to delete this in the mean time.


BTW the way Nietzsche wound up hugging a horse based on what we know of his later days, and Rust wound up saying the most uncharacteristic words we could imagine as viewers. Both of those men ended up in places far from where they started and they both used similar methods within their approach.  They both found a little bit of humanity at the end of the day in spite of all the darkness.

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Pubrick on March 31, 2014, 01:06:18 AM
Dude Nietzsche went insane.

He didn't find humanity, he lost his mind.

The more consistent parallel to draw would be to say Rust also lost his mind at the end, much like Pizza face lost control of his characters and themes, he literally lost the plot.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on April 11, 2014, 12:52:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbO61Nd0Jlk
/end show
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on April 11, 2014, 01:24:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbO61Nd0Jlk
/end show

That's an incredibly precise vocal impression. I am impressed.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Neil on April 11, 2014, 09:47:19 PM
Alright Pubrick (sorry for the late response, been living in the dark ages with no internet), i take back the "finding humanity part." However, I stand by the rest. 
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on April 20, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
This is a really nice interpretation of the finale that I can get on board with. I don't for a second believe it's what the makers intended, but at least it lets me view the ending in a way that doesn't leave me horribly let down.

http://io9.com/why-true-detective-is-a-supernatural-show-after-all-1564370767 (http://io9.com/why-true-detective-is-a-supernatural-show-after-all-1564370767)
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on April 21, 2014, 04:21:57 AM
ok that shit is amazing.
do i have to say SPOILERS at this point?

the terror you see from people when they talk about the yellow king is weird, because what we are shown is basically some fucked up torture and rape stuff. but its human, and these are older people usually showing a straight up mortified perception of the subject, beyond anything that someone could be desensitized to over the years. so for the yellow king to be essentially an evil spirit that can control people to a bizarre and realistic extent...thats some deep and logical shit. these people have been exposed to folks that have touched evil itself. not to go too far, but what if the yellow king is satan himself, causing his equivalent of what we call 'miracles' from god (unexplainable events but in a negative manner)? the voice in carcosa, the portal opening up, and then rust turning into a different person all makes sense in that context.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Brando on April 21, 2014, 01:17:56 PM

I don't remember why I didn't post this earlier.

Childress wasn't the Yellow King. The alter at the end was the yellow king. It was either the Production Designer or Costume Designer who confirmed it.  That supports the articles interpretation

(http://37.media.tumblr.com/1c498d112469e07d821954e5b8384b20/tumblr_n2852jvELp1qkasyuo1_1280.jpg)


 
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: MacGuffin on May 27, 2014, 04:10:43 PM
True Detective’ Season 2 Will Have Three Leads, California Setting
Source: Variety

More details have emerged about the cast and setting of “True Detective” season two, which will have three new leads, according to creator Nic Pizzolatto.

In a recent interview with public radio program “To the Best of Our Knowledge,” Pizzolatto revealed that in the new season’s current form, “we’re working with three leads. It takes place in California — not Los Angeles, but some of the much lesser known venues of California — and we’re going to try to capture a certain psychosphere ambiance of the place, much like we did in season one.”

He added, “The characters are all new, but I’m deeply in love with each of them. We’ve got the entire series broken out with a couple of scripts, and we’ll probably start casting in earnest in the coming months.”

The show’s anthology format means that season two will be entirely self-contained and distinct from its freshman year, with no plans for season one stars Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson to return — something that differentiates the series from FX’s “American Horror Story,” which recycles actors from past seasons in new roles.

Pizzolatto previously told HitFix that “True Detective” season two would be about “hard women, bad men and the secret occult history of the United States transportation system.”

Last week, rumors circulated that “Zero Dark Thirty” star Jessica Chastain was offered a role in season two, but the actress denied the buzz on the red carpet at Cannes. “It’s an awkward thing because when all that attention happens — it takes away from whoever plays the role,” she said. “I’m a big fan of the series. I’m going to watch the second season just like I watched every episode of the first.”
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 27, 2014, 06:41:47 PM
psychosphere
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: ono on July 11, 2014, 03:37:14 PM
http://tvline.com/2014/07/11/true-detective-colin-farrell-season-2-cast/
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Tortuga on July 12, 2014, 07:34:03 AM
http://www.slashfilm.com/william-friedkin-true-detective-season-2/
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: ono on August 05, 2014, 09:18:02 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/true-detective-season-two-female-lead
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on August 21, 2014, 05:48:40 PM
True Detective’s second season will have reduced role for the darkness of the soul

http://www.avclub.com/article/true-detectives-second-season-will-have-reduced-ro-208418

While much of the talk surrounding the new season of True Detective has swirled around who might be cast, many fans have also wondered about the swirling abyss, and how much they can expect to see next year of returning cast favorite, the pitiless void of the human condition. According to HBO’s Michael Lombardo, the darkness will return, to be touched and subsequently touch you back and so on, but its role has been somewhat reduced.

“It’s still dark,” Lombardo said at the Guardian International Television Festival, presumably to a fan clutching an 8 x 10 of the endless obsidian night. “Nic [Pizzolatto, creator] explores the darkness in people’s souls…. It’s not as dark, but it’s not a light ride. Nic likes looking into the crevices of the soul.” And indeed, no matter how Pizzolatto likes to probe them, crevices can contain only so much darkness—particularly in the California sunshine.

Thanks to this free time in its shooting schedule, the darkness of the human soul can also be seen just about every-fucking-where right now.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Punch on September 21, 2014, 12:48:34 PM
Colin Farrell Has Confirmed His Role In ‘True Detective’

[The] 38-year-old star said, “I’m doing the second series. I’m so excited.”

“I know it will be eight episodes and take around four or five months to shoot. I know very little about it, but we’re shooting in the environs of Los Angeles which is great. It means I get to stay at home and see the kids.”

Farrell revealed the rest of the cast are still being locked down.

Farrell has been rumored for a role since the casting rumors started and makes the first confirmation for the series second season. Other names that have been rumored include Vince Vaughn, Taylor Kitsch, and a slew of female names like Elisabeth Moss, Rachel McAdams, and Jessica Biel.

There were also some new plot details that match up with what has been previously reported, creating a nice picture for what we can expect:

Nic Pizzolatto has returned to pen the next series, which looks set to pick up on the bloody murder of a corrupt city businessman found dead the night before a major transportation deal.

Three police officials from different cities are put in charge of solving the high profile case.

While the first season was directly solely by Emmy winner Cary Fukanaga, the new run will likely make use of multiple directors. No one has been confirmed as yet, but William Friedkin and The Fast and the Furious’ Justin Lin are among rumored names.

Via uproxx.com
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Reelist on September 21, 2014, 07:10:49 PM
Ew, I hate this new cast
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Larry on September 22, 2014, 01:59:55 AM
Colin Farrell has potential.
What if Joaquin Phoenix signed on hahahaha but that would be awesome
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on November 24, 2014, 09:47:05 PM
source: entertainment weekly

HBO is announcing some more cast members for True Detective season two.

The network has finally officially confirmed that Rachel McAdams (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows) and Kelly Reilly (Black Box) have joined as female leads, along with Taylor Kitsch (Lone Survivor) in a major role.

Here are the official descriptions:

Rachel McAdams as Ani Bezzerides, a Ventura County Sheriff’s detective whose uncompromising ethics put her at odds with others and the system she serves.

Taylor Kitsch as Paul Woodrugh, a war veteran and motorcycle officer for the California Highway Patrol, running from a difficult past and the sudden glare of a scandal that never happened.

Kelly Reilly as Jordan, Frank Semyon’s wife, a former D-list actress who is a full partner in his enterprises and ambitions.

Previously confirmed cast:

Colin Farrell as Ray Velcoro, a compromised detective whose allegiances are torn between his masters in a corrupt police department and the mobster who owns him.

Vince Vaughn as Frank Semyon, a criminal and entrepreneur in danger of losing his empire when his move into legitimate enterprise is upended by the murder of a business partner.

Production has actually started on season two and HBO is aiming for a summer air date.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Axolotl on November 25, 2014, 12:26:50 AM
Colin Farrell as Ray Velcoro, a compromised detective whose allegiances are torn between his masters in a corrupt police department and the mobster who owns him.
There's hope for this show yet.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on November 25, 2014, 12:49:16 AM
Colin Farrell as Ray Velcoro, a compromised detective whose allegiances are torn between his masters in a corrupt police department and the mobster who owns him.
There's hope for this show yet.

He may look simple, even childish, but he'll latch right on to any clues he stumbles across. You can count on him never to trip up, and never to leave any loose ends dangling.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Fernando on April 09, 2015, 12:46:12 PM
Teaser Season 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OfU7CGY5DQ

Season 2 arrives on June 21st.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on April 09, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Seriously though, what a cast. And what a mustache.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on April 09, 2015, 06:25:56 PM
I really think this season is going to do for Colin Farrell what the first season did for McConaughey. Farrell can be so goddamn good in the right roles.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Kal on April 10, 2015, 01:57:52 AM
I hope it does the same for Taylor Kitsch. He had a huge promising career and it all blew up after John Carter and Battleship. He deserves something good.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on April 10, 2015, 03:15:33 AM
I'll drink to that.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Garam on April 26, 2015, 01:51:07 PM
gif poster!

(http://i.imgur.com/dUHKJUG.gif)

not great, but i fully support the concept of the gif poster
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Mel on May 15, 2015, 09:56:40 AM
True Detective Season 2: Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4uxGbhO4ag
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: OpO1832 on May 15, 2015, 10:37:32 AM
Rachael McAdams training with the knife looks very badass, and not like the fake badass shit you see that permeates a lot of television and movies. real shit. anyway I really enjoyed the marriage of Cary F and Nic P.
I am not sure who is directing these episodes but overall the cast does not get me hyped like the cast from the 1st season.

Cary F made history along with his crew in my book, that amazing long take SHOT on 35mm rivals anything I have seen in both television and movies. Alejandro & Cuaron always cheat when they say they have a long take, its not a real long take with invisible CGI edits and the fact that its shot digitally, not on film, ( birdman ) instantly takes it off the list of real long takes, but I have a strict criteria, I guess. However that said, it is still taxing on the actors and they get props for keeping "it up" for so long.

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: pete on June 22, 2015, 02:57:25 PM
season 2 opening wasn't good...right?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on June 22, 2015, 03:23:48 PM
I liked it. I think it's in a bit of an impossible situation, where if it's too much like season one, people will say it's repeating itself, and if it's not enough like season one, people will say it's lost what made it special. So far, it's not much like season one, and that's fine. It's its own beast. Farrell and McAdams are predictably great so far. Kitsch hasn't had much chance to show nuance yet, but I expect that to change as the season goes on. Vince Vaughn was also there.

Regardless, it's been one episode. The people heralding the demise of True Detective are being reactionaries for the sake of being reactionaries.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: ©brad on June 22, 2015, 03:51:42 PM
I liked it too but I honestly couldn't follow what the hell was happening for most of it. Need to watch again tonight. Some of the dialogue was pretty bad though. I couldn't tell if it was the actors not being able to sell Nic Pizzolatto's dialogue like Mcconaughey or if the dialogue itself was stilted and trying too hard.



Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Drenk on June 22, 2015, 05:36:41 PM
I thought it was badly written in season 1. I think it's badly written now. But now I miss season 1.

When Don Drapers looks gloomy in the void, something probably happened in the episode. It has meaning. Here everyone was looking very exhausted, looking in the void. In the first minutes of the season. We don't even know who they are.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 23, 2015, 12:40:27 AM
Come on guys, this is an ensemble story, so let's give it some time to unfold. I really liked it. Feels like a very solid first episode. It was legitimately thrilling how the leads converged at the end.

The Wire's influence is coming through stronger than ever this season, especially in a few scenes. I can see that fading, unless they bring back police department politics and artificial deadlines.

Strangely, I hated the theme song, but loved all the music that came after it.

Farrell and McAdams are already rich and intense, in a story that is clearly going to get richer and more intense. So that's exciting. I did not like David Morse. (And I always like David Morse.) I have really been trying to give Vince Vaughn a chance lately (despite my reservations (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=12201.0)), but he needs more to do.

There was a little too much transparent exposition, especially in Rachel McAdams's scenes. I started cringing each time the words "sister" and "daughter" and "father" were spoken. I appreciate the need to establish relationships quickly, but some of those exchanges were designed to draw a family tree in our minds.

The dialogue did feel novelistic, but there were 3 or 4 superb quotable lines. The last one being: "I think you're supposed to savor that." / "Let me try again."
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Tictacbk on June 24, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
It's definitely not as bad as people are making it out to be, at least not yet.  I do think it's missing one key component, though: humor.  You gotta have some humor in there.  That's where I'm missing Woody and McConaughey most (so far).
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 24, 2015, 01:11:40 PM
It's definitely not as bad as people are making it out to be, at least not yet.  I do think it's missing one key component, though: humor.  You gotta have some humor in there.  That's where I'm missing Woody and McConaughey most (so far).

Good points. There was some humor, but it was mostly difficult to interpret as such, since it was usually something sick coming out of Farrell's corrupt detective. Like the things he said to the bully. Although, his Stephen Hawking line was funny.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: OpO1832 on June 27, 2015, 12:15:36 PM
Its pretty bad actually but there was some good moments, mainly the writing, in the scene with david morse and mcadams.

Its laying it on THICK in a way it didn't in the first season. McAdams getting shit faced at the casino and her throwing her cup at the bodyguards...that crane shot was totally unnecessary but I must remember the words of maestro Bertolucci, crane shots give him boners lol...speaking of shots the best one was that drone shot at the end, pretty cool!


in terms of story its lame.. It is nice to see Vaughn return to dramatic acting but I feel he is miscast but I will continue to watch it. Collin Farell beating up his sons bully's father was laughable, not to mention is drinking and cocaine use, its like this is beginning to become a cliche.  That song too....this is my least favorite life.....

the show really started in the last 5ms, everything else was prologue so the reviewers who were trashing it were just fucking tools feeding off each others write ups. 

my problem is with the casting and the way the show just is shot, aesthetically speaking, it is lacking. The most interesting characters are Antigone ( some idiot reviewer said her name was ridiculous, but this tool failed to watch the episode, her father is on some insane hippy trip so the name works, I think her sister who does the porn is named Athena. I don't get why they would bust up a webcam porn ring, what a waste of man power and resources for something that is legal especially given that they are in California.

It was hard to follow and at one moment I thought the spainsh lady who said help me find my missing sister or daughter was the girl banging taylor kitch. What was going on during his head during his BJ? Does he have PTSD? Was  he in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Collin Farrell was not good at all here, Taylor Kitcsh is going to be the Rust. From a tech stand point how the fuck are they going to outdo that long take? That long take from TRUE DETECTIVE SEASON 1 might be the greatest long take since opening of Bonfire of the Vanities ( which is an awful movie but that opening long take through the world trade center is outstanding) or Touch of Evil.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on June 28, 2015, 04:10:48 AM
Its pretty bad actually but there was some good moments
please be from alabama please be from alabama
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: ©brad on June 29, 2015, 01:27:39 PM
All this inner city politics stuff is just boring. If it is going to be the focal point, I hope they find a way to make it more engaging. I'm finding it difficult to give half a shit about this murder too, unlike last season which was immediately gripping from the get go. Kitsch and Vaughn are the weak links, largely because their characters lack any sort of dimension or humor. It would be nice if every character on the show wasn't playing the same shade of misery. Things do perk up when Farrell and McAdams are on screen. She in particular is outstanding.

There were some good moments though. The end was terrifying. I have hope.

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: OpO1832 on July 01, 2015, 08:27:09 PM
brad my sentiments exactly
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Garam on July 14, 2015, 01:56:37 PM
http://www.somethingawful.com/news/true-detective-preview/

This is amusing.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on July 14, 2015, 04:22:50 PM
I, decidedly in the minority, am liking the plot, the writing, and the acting of this season so far. The one area in which it feels woefully insufficient is in the directing. The lack of Fukunaga has been glaring, especially in the past two episodes, where you've had a couple of Just Some Guy directors taking over for the steadier hand of Justin Lin. But without a consistent stylistic voice, this feels a lot less like True Detective and a lot more like any old TV show. Imagine the final sequence of this past episode directed by Fukunaga (or even Lin); we would have been blown away. As it is... I wouldn't say "underwhelmed," but I was definitely just whelmed by it.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on July 14, 2015, 06:18:26 PM
^ I feel 100% the same way. That's actually kind of spooky.

During the action sequence, I kept thinking wow this is pretty great, but shouldn't it be better? It's not a terrific sign when you're trying that hard to like something. A great scene should absolutely floor you, like the famous long shot in the ghetto from Season 1 (which, unfortunately, this seemed to reach for a bit).

On the plus side, Vince Vaughn and/or his character is completely fascinating to me for some reason I can't really explain.

Taylor Kitsch's material is getting juicier too. The way he was comfortably in his element in battle was interesting.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Tictacbk on July 22, 2015, 11:05:44 PM
Welp, it lost me.  I might finish just because I'm so far in already, but I no longer give a shit.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: ©brad on July 27, 2015, 02:56:48 PM
Last night went all Eyes Wide Shut on us and it was pretty good right? McAdams was good (molly/MDMA does not make one hallucinate but whatever). Vince Vaughn is finally settling into his role and did good. The music during the orgy sequence was very good. I'm kinda less confused than I was plot-wise, which is good.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: diggler on July 27, 2015, 07:11:52 PM
Ani finally using a knife was great, although I'm not sure why she had to infiltrate the party in the first place. The score to that scene really made the sequence, probably the most distinctive stylistic touch of the season.

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on July 28, 2015, 12:51:16 AM
Yes indeed. The last half of this episode was an absolute joy, from the supervised visit onward. The party was my favorite sequence of the season so far.

This season is so different from the first. The horror and oblivion from Season 1 have been replaced by pulpy intrigue and a whole bunch of weirdness. Taken on its own terms, this is a pretty fun season of television. (Which is not necessarily how one would describe Season 1.) It feels more like Fargo S1 than True Detective S1.

although I'm not sure why she had to infiltrate the party in the first place.

I think she would have done more actual evidence collecting had she not been drugged. She used what capacity she had to at least see a bunch of faces and find out who was there. While that's not really evidence, it presumably tells them exactly who they can't trust, and now they have evidence as well. Also I think she was specifically looking for her missing person.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on July 28, 2015, 12:56:14 AM
Things I liked: Chad just wanting to eat some pizza and watch some Friends.

Things I didn't like: Ray talking shit about Friends.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: 03 on July 30, 2015, 03:28:16 AM
spoilers i guess


got caught up in one day.
good god is this season garbage.
i mean they are definitely in the 'hard act to follow' category but jesus this is just awful.
i mean i guess its a good show, but its definitely not true detective.

was this scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_AyMkoyiFM

supposedly attempting to come anywhere close to the majesty of this scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HuFuKiq8U

if they're just trying to make some random show, then cool, but i think we can all agree this feels like as if a season of breaking bad was hijacked by the creators of ncis or house or something.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: ©brad on July 31, 2015, 09:05:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NItT8vlq3I

This is a good one.

Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Tictacbk on August 10, 2015, 06:12:18 PM
Well, that was a... uh, season of television. I guess?  There were some great moments, to be sure. But as far as a cohesive story worth caring about? Not so much.  There were also some pretty laughable moments.

My positive spin on this is that now with season 3 they've got something to prove. 
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on August 10, 2015, 07:04:47 PM
Yeah, now that it's all wrapped up, I can comfortably say the season was a misfire. The mystery turned out to be largely irrelevant, which would be fine if the character work was on point, but that never really landed straight either. The strength of the first season was the simmer. Plot points and character development and clues and revelations were constantly bubbling under the lid, soaking in the flavor of each new ingredient tossed into the pot.

This season, to further torture this food analogy, was like having a tray of raw ingredients laid out in front of you that never really make sense as a meal. "Try the anchovy and the peanut butter together," the show would offer, as though not aware of how insane that is.

SPOILERS

Ray's death was over the top. The bit about his recording to his son failing to send was over the top. The kid having his grandpa's badge on the table next to him at recess was over the top. The paternity test revelation was over the top. Everything about Ray's arc was bungled in this episode.

Frank's death march was actually kind of great. Lyrical and powerful in a way that this season has rarely achieved.

Nicky Pizza is going to continue to get shit on for the gender politics in his work, and he will continue not to understand why.

The deductive leap the detectives made in the first season to finger the lawnmower man (the green paint thing) feels like a lost Sherlock Holmes story compared to how Ray figures out the killer in this one. Based on the old photograph of the two orphans, he just sort of randomly remembers a character who had appeared in one scene back in episode three (at least seven or eight months ago in story time at this point), and decides there's enough of a resemblance to the kid in the picture that it must be their guy. This is lazy, lazy storytelling.

Damn it, I still love this cast, and I still love the potential of what True Detective can be. What this season proved above all is that season three needs a strong directorial hand to guide it. Get Refn or somebody. Somebody with a voice of their own that can push back against and sharpen Pizzolatto's own.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on August 10, 2015, 11:43:12 PM
Can't really disagree with any of that, and yet I kinda loved the finale.

SPOILERS

The badge thing was indeed dumb; why on earth would he bring that to school while his dad is a murder suspect? Maybe the kid is a psychopath. The voice memo was completely cheeseball, too. All I was thinking was, you know what, maybe it's better that his son doesn't receive whatever overwrought, misguided, way-too-intense stuff was on that recording.

I don't really have other complaints, though.

When Season 1 was wrapping up, I could not have cared less what happened to the characters. As long as it was sufficiently insane or profound, I was prepared. Tonight, I had so much anxiety about what would happen to Ray and Frank. (I knew Ani would be fine.) As soon as Ray saw that transponder, I was kind of going nuts. Same thing when Frank got abducted.

The last 10 minutes was a really really strong finish, and I was completely on board. I like that Ani never tried to go save Ray. I pictured her pleading for the boat to turn around as that woman holds her back. Thank God that didn't happen; her acceptance instead was a great moment. And yes, I bought into the girl power scene at the end.

Season 1 had its share of unevenness. Outside of 2 or 3 episodes, there was a good amount of ambivalence in this thread. Its greatest assets were the director and the two leads. Season 1 was brilliant when they were allowed to take over.

This season's problem was wasted potential. In theory, it had what a second season needed: a major shift in setting and tone, a wider narrative, better female characters, and more elaborately-drawn characters in general. Had Cary Fukunaga directed, it might have easily been superior to Season 1.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: samsong on August 11, 2015, 03:29:20 AM
the finale gave me blue balls in my heart.

the previous two episodes gave me some hope that they were going to end this in a satisfyingly batshit way, and it went back to Broken Characters Lick Their Wounds: The Miniseries.  such stock haunted-by-the-past bullshit.  it was like mad libs where they all had the same dramatic conflict and "arc" if you can call it that, with the specifics altered for each archetype.

an early scene between vaughn and reilly is one of the worst things i've ever seen.  literally every facet of it is a master class in how not to go about drama.  almost turned it off after that.

i don't think the premise was all that terrible, really (though it ended TERRIBLY), but taking what should've been a pulpy, bizarre, nearly incomprehensible LA noir a la The Big Sleep and forcing last season's tone onto it while bogging it down with horseshit existentialism was a mistake.  one need only see the 84 overhead shots of LA traffic/roads per episode to realize they were really at a loss for how to go about this one.  it's like The Room but 8 hours long and rarely funny to laugh at.  just cringe-inducing and stupid.

i hate myself for watching it all, and for at any point having hope for it being remotely good. 
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 25, 2016, 11:32:49 PM
We Probably Won’t Have True Detective to Kick Around Anymore (But We’ll Still Have Nic Pizzolatto)

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/true-detective-season-three-nic-pizzolatto.html

Were you wondering what sort of manly men would get into dark and twisted trouble in the third season of True Detective? If so, we've got bad news for you: According to a THR profile of new HBO programming head Casey Bloys, a third season of the crime anthology series is probably not on the menu. More likely, sources say, is a different series from creator Nic Pizzolatto, who signed an exclusive deal with HBO last fall. The news is not incredibly surprising — even at the height of True D mania, Pizzolatto said he couldn't imagine making more than three seasons of the show. There's no word on what Pizzolatto's other ideas could be, but knowing what happened in season two, a Hollywood satire is probably out of the question.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: wilder on November 18, 2017, 12:48:14 AM
‘True Detective’: Carmen Ejogo To Star In Season 3 Of HBO Anthology Series
via Deadline

(https://i.imgur.com/zSguXTw.jpg)

Carmen Ejogo is set to star opposite Mahershala Ali in the third season of Nic Pizzolatto’s HBO crime anthology series True Detective.

The new installment of True Detective tells the story of a macabre crime in the heart of the Ozarks and a mystery that deepens over decades and plays out in three separate time periods.

Ejogo will play Amelia Reardon, an Arkansas schoolteacher with a connection to two missing children in 1980. Ali plays the lead role of Wayne Hays, a state police detective from Northwest Arkansas.

Like with the breakout original installment of True Detective, which Pizzolatto wrote by himself, he is the sole writer of the third season with the exception of Episode 4, which he co-wrote with David Milch. Jeremy Saulnier is the Season 3 director alongside Pizzolatto, who will make his directorial debut.

Pizzolatto, who also serves as showrunner, executive produces with Saulnier and returning executive producers Scott Stephens; Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, who toplined Season 1; Cary Joji Fukunaga, who directed Season 1; Scott Stephens, Steve Golin, Bard Dorros and Richard Brown.

English-Nigerian actress Ejogo is best known for her performances as Coretta Scott King in Ava DuVernay’s Selma and in Born to Be Blue. She just completed shooting the Warner Bros  sequel, Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald, reprising her role from the first movie. Ejogo currently stars on the second season of the Starz series The Girlfriend Experience and is onscreen in Roman J. Israel, Esq. opposite Denzel Washington.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Fernando on August 27, 2018, 10:24:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpUznQds8p4
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on August 28, 2018, 03:31:34 AM
I’m ready to be hurt again.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Something Spanish on August 28, 2018, 05:37:46 AM
I’m ready to be hurt again.

was S2 that bad?
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on August 28, 2018, 09:43:46 AM
It wasn’t quite as bad as it gets (dis)credit for, but it was very apparent that it was written too quickly, and suffered immeasurably in comparison to the first season.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: Something Spanish on August 28, 2018, 03:50:03 PM
that seems to be the consensus and what has kept me away from S2 despite the greatness of its first season
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: eward on August 28, 2018, 04:00:19 PM
Comparatively speaking, S2 ranks as a letdown, but I always find myself defending it.
Title: Re: True Detective
Post by: polkablues on August 28, 2018, 10:37:11 PM
There was some great character stuff going on, but the underlying “mystery” of the season was garbage.