Kill Bill: Volume Two

Started by MacGuffin, September 24, 2003, 01:38:09 AM

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mutinyco

"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

cine

Quote from: mutinycoExactly. Accurate.
Well, you know, thanks for the nice links and all but from now on, let's not link to reviews, especially ones that you like because they agree with how you feel too. So in future, folks, just refer to Rottontomatoes.com for ALL the reviews you want on Kill Vill Volume 2. We don't want to turn this into a potential review war.

Oh yeah, if you're looking for positive reviews at rottentomatoes, it's a good place to start since over 90% of the reviews praise the film.

mutinyco

Actually, it's at 88%. There's another site you can check out too called metacritic.com. Does the same thing as Rotten Tomatoes, only instead of an up or down, critics offer actual grades. Yeah, a lot of critics I know loved the film. They also loved Pulp Fiction. I only like one of Tarantino's films: Reservoir Dogs.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Ghostboy

Well, I loved it.

Big surprise there, right?

mutinyco

I fell asleep during it. I thought it was genuinely boring. Poorly plotted with Texas-sized plot holes. The whole thing has no suspense. No sense of momentum. It's just a series of snuffs. And the title already tells you what happens at the end. My biggest gripe is that unlike say Sergio Leone, who was obviously influenced by John Ford and Akira Kurosawa, he made his films his own. Own visuals. Original music my Morricone. But here, Tarantino hasn't made anything his own. He blatantly rips shots from Ford. Blatantly uses Leone's extreme close-ups. Even uses Morricone's music in the background. This was like a hackwork postmodern attempt at Leone. But completely without depth or soul. It's like he's incapable of creating any genuine moments. The climax has to be filtered through Superman. The mother/daughter reunion is filtered through Heckyl & Jeckyl. It makes for a lifeless experience.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Rudie Obias

i loved loved loved volume 2!!!!  qt is a master filmmaker and it really shows in volume 2....
\"a pair of eyes staring at you, projected on a large screen is what cinema is truly about.\" -volker schlöndorff

TENOCH

I feel sorry for people who don't enjoy this film. This is a masterpiece by Tarantino. Enough said.

mutinyco

Please, SOMEBODY explain what's so great about it. I thought it was undeniably trivial.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

modage

Quote from: themodernage02 on July 15th 2003 on the official news that the film had been split in two partsi think this is a very daring move.  but i am going to be upset if we have to wait more like 6 months instead of 2.  because at that point, isnt it more like a "sequel", and less like the other installment?  (like back to the future 3 and matrix 3?)  they should release them a few weeks apart.  because otherwise, in 6 months, you wont remember where the fuck you were at in the story when you sit down for part two. you will, emotionally be totally out of it.  the only way would be to release them both simultaneously or a few weeks apart so you can see them back to back.  otherwise, this is going to be upsetting.  i hope they will be considering this, although at this point, i'm sure they are more concerned about getting paid for the tickets twice to help recoup the budget and less about what anal fanboys think about it.
okay this is a difficult difficult thing, and i'll try to explain what i thought as best i as i can.  basically, i felt that volume one works as a complete film.  you can watch it on its own and it stands alone as a whole movie.  (which is really weird, because you would THINK the first half of a film wouldnt feel whole and the second half would, but thats not the way it happened here.)  i didnt feel like the second film works as its own film.  even though i saw the first film 3 times in theatres and again a few nights ago and then finally last night, when i walked into the theater this morning, i was not in the right headspace to view the second half of this story.  i tried and tried to imagine i had just been through the house of blue leaves fight and vernitas house, but i just couldnt.  because the tone/style/look/characters are so completely fucking different in part two, it was hard even convincing myself it was part of the same film.  the entire first movie essentially is a giant exciting slope upwards.  the second movie is all winding down.  from the opening scenes and slower pace, character depth etc., the whole thing is winding down towards the end.  but without immediately coming off the adrenaline of part one, part two doesnt feel whole.  

SPOILERS

another thing the movie does is essentially take the speeding ship that is volume one and start to turn it completely around into a u-turn.  the whole first film, you are rooting for the revenge.  you are cheering for the bride as she goes through vernita and o-ren and the crazy 88's. and you cant WAIT for her to kill elle, budd and mostly bill.  so after watching part one, you cant wait to get the second part of your revenge story.  and walking into part two, thats what you expect to get.  but volume two is NOTHING like volume one.  if the bride did just mow her way invincibly through the final 3 characters, it would end up feeling to standard, and ordinary and empty.  so, in a way what he does, is what HAS to happen to make it interesting.  but that doesnt mean its what you as an audience member WANTS to happen at all.  all of the satisfaction reaped out of the kills in volume one is slowly but surely by tarantino pulled out from under you during the 2 hours of volume two.  she doesnt kill budd, she leaves elle alive, and by the time she kills bill, she and the audience doesnt even know if they want to see him dead anymore.  its a tricky tricky move by tarantino, ever so subtley toying with the audiences expectations for more carnage and revenge and turning it around on us showing us the whole story and basically asking us if we still want revenge at all?  i was reminded of two films.  

the first being sullivans travels.  the brilliant thing sullivans travels does, is in making a movie about a director of comedies who sets out to make a serious 'important' picture and starts out a comedy and slowly turns into a serious movie, is completely pull the rug out from under the audience.  the audience doesnt want things to get so grim and serious, they want more laughs, but had it continued with laughs till the end, it would be robbed of the thing that makes it unique.  you dont want it to get serious, but you have to RESPECT it for doing so.

the other film is red river.  the thing that red river does thats also so tricky, is it starts out with john wayne training the young montgomery clift.  eventually clift breaks off on his own and wayne comes after him.  although wayne is absent from much of the middle of the film, you can feel his prescence looming over every scene.  like an evil force who could show up at any minute to kill clift!  and its terrifying!    (just like bill in volume one.)  and by the end of the film they end up finally face to face, and the big fight you want to see between this awful guy (wayne) and your hero (clift), ends up with them talking out their differences and just like that!  this bad awful guy who you were afraid of the whole film, ends up being friends again with the hero.  (the difference in vol. 2 being of course the resolution, but the rug-pulling effect remains the same.)  playing with and subverting the audiences expectations.  this second part gives you what you NEED for it to work, not what you WANT.  and i'm interested to see how this affects others opinions on it (and in the end its box office.)

the whole film is spent humanizing bills character, (and budds to a certain degree).  so when you walked in the theater, you cant wait for him to die, but by the end you arent even so sure.  its a crazy trick, and even with what i read about 'the love story' i still never would've seen it coming.

so, am i disappointed?  yeah, a little.  did i really love volume two anyway?  yeah i did.  i saw this two times today just to really make sure i knew what i had watched and how i felt about it.  but, i am really interested to see how this plays as one film edited together.  i feel like part 1 was an A+ film that knocked my socks off and part 2 was an A- film that had to end a way that i didnt want to see happen.  hopefully put together they will be an A film.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Ghostboy

Themodernage, between this and your opinion on Eyes Wide Shut, I think history has been made: we've shared the same opinion twice in one week! Hooray!

modage

Quote from: GhostboyThemodernage, between this and your opinion on Eyes Wide Shut, I think history has been made: we've shared the same opinion twice in one week! Hooray!
great!  (cant believe someone actually read all that!)
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Tictacbk

Although I refuse to rate Vol 1 againt Vol 2, seeing as they really are one and the same...this was a complete turn around from volume 1.  I wasn't sure what I was expecting.  I have to agree that altho I wanted to see the bride just rampage through everyone I knew it couldn't happen.  QT took his time with everything in vol. 2 and I loved it.  




Oh yea, and the scene where you first hear Beatrix and it cuts to the classroom?  That was weird.

NEON MERCURY

spoilers are in dis bitch.....


..my thoughts

-would be much better if the film wasn't cut in half..that was phucking stupid from a film-geek/buff POV...i noticed this when watching the credits and it curtain call w/ all of the characters names at the end that includes people from volume one..its so phucjking stupid......and this will be awesom ewhen the complete cut arrives on dvd...that will be the medium to see this sh*t ....phuck the theatres.....

-if i was going to judge the film on both parts part one is better.....HOUSE OF BLUE LEAVES.....it was the first time quentin seemed beatuful in capturing a scene.....gosh..that was awesome.....volume two had none of that.....

-THIS FILM IS PHUCKING AWESOME........just wanted to make sure thats known so pepple don't think i'm hating......
-the elle driver fight/and "the cruel tuteledge of ?(whatever)"..was the highlight of this film.....

-it was pretty sentimental when she sees her daughter/bedroom scene....not use to seeing that from QT

-make sure you guys stay at the end ofter the credits are done...there is an "eyepooping" extra at the end.....

-speaking of eyes ...that sh*t was wicked.....  :yabbse-thumbup:

-the music was better in vol. One..

-it was cool to se SLJ in this....nice surprise....

-finally, killer dialogue.....

-the "grave of paule schratz" or whatever was the best chapter in the film...the whole scnene w/ the dug up body and the "mis e scene"..steller....**whats also funny is that the dead body in the casket is doing a shadow puppet of a rooster or a bunny/chicken very nice touch.....

-carridine rocked....

-i can't wait till the final cut ....when both are put together on dvd.....


gotta run..mod-age  et al, i will read your reviews soon....

modage

also: there were some spots in the film that didnt sit quite right with me.  the tone didnt seem right in places, and i realize how difficult it must've been to get the tone for the whole bill finale and i dont think it was quite right through the whole thing.  theres a lot of story/emotions/dialogue to get through during that part and it doesnt all go down quite right for me.  

was it just my print put together wrong or a last minute decision to move the beginning credits to the end of the film with uma in the car in black and white?  the beginning credits were after the end credits.  weird.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Sleuth

spoimlers

hey pete, I really like that chapter where you're teaching the Bride
I like to hug dogs