Xixax Film Forum

Film Discussion => The Vault => Topic started by: WorldForgot on May 16, 2018, 12:00:24 PM

Title: Suspiria
Post by: WorldForgot on May 16, 2018, 12:00:24 PM
From director Luca Guadagnino, based on Argento's classic giallo, via Amazon Studios.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdLH3g6UQAEysWB.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdLH42sVAAES4Ca.jpg)

Starring Tilda Swinton, Dakota Johnson, Chloe Grace Moretz, Mia Goth and Jessica Harper -- with a score by Radiohead's Thom Yorke
In theaters November 2.

At first I was confused why Luca Guadagnino would want to remake an already (~imo) perfect horror, but reactions to the CinemaCon footage have me very excited. It seems that Guadagnino is adding a more visceral sort of body-horror to the ballet academy. I'd post the tweets from CinemaCon journoz, but perhaps it's best we wait on a trailer. And Jessica'z in, so I'm in.

If you'e seen a Bigger Splash or CMBYN, you know he's got a knack for musical sequences. To say he's an aesthete on Argento's level might be a reach, but someday a giallo snob'z gotta learn to adapt.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: WorldForgot on June 04, 2018, 09:45:04 AM
First Trailer dropped --



Almost looks like a new elevation of the old tropes, can only really relate it to Cronenberg's Fly remake in my mind right now.... Expecting similar images and concepts but presented in an all new light. Possibly more body horror it seems like? Dig it, Luca is leaning into the Gothic Intrigue.

4 those not spoilerphobic, bandage up:
[img width=850 height=729]https://i.imgur.com/d9WAGTa.jpg[
/img]
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Robyn on June 04, 2018, 01:04:58 PM
wtf, this looks amazing.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: wilder on August 23, 2018, 11:02:47 AM
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: wilder on August 31, 2018, 02:16:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ndP9tuq.jpg)
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: jenkins on September 04, 2018, 06:01:10 PM
i am looking forward to this about equal to Halloween, and believe they will both be capable of echoing the release of their originals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTZl9KMjbrU
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: jenkins on October 03, 2018, 01:57:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBjPCI6QV4
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: jenkins on October 10, 2018, 09:24:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpULWBT1WEg
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: WorldForgot on October 27, 2018, 02:45:14 PM
Volk is restorative. And can be swayed into dangerous covenz.

I loved this movie. More Argento than I expected, but not Suspiria, per say.

SPOILERz, possibly
Jung, Lacan, Laura Mulveyz cinematic pleasure essay choreographed into orgiastic assault. Giallo camera moves, Elektra and Oedipus coded as political guilt and so much gore.

Kinetic catharsis, and I can't fuckin wait to see it again. A lot of the RAF and Berlin text went over my head the first time, as well as the Jungian archetypes. You'll either wanna become intimate with this movie or wish it was never summoned.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Yes on November 04, 2018, 04:28:40 AM
More I think about this, the more I like it. It's simmering in my mind, but boy, it's not the easiest watch. Overplotted, Long-winded, dense, shallow, distant. So many mixed emotions. A formal exercise where the formal missteps make it all the more intoxicating
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: WorldForgot on November 04, 2018, 12:15:48 PM
Letterboxd community is comparing it to mother! and BigSock I think you're on the dial of what makes them both intriguing. Bold, clumsy, and dancing (wobbling?) to their own beat.

SPOILERz

Personally I've come to appreciate the pacing of it, but I do think the A+J storyline could have been structured/handled effectively. I very much wish it worked for me because I love the idea of conjuring Anke and Suzy's guilt trip. For me, the Nation-State guilt allegory works but not so much our plotting with Josef.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: modage on November 06, 2018, 01:14:39 PM
I would definitely compare it to mother! It's a big swing and I love that but not sure that it works (for me).

What does work for me is Luca giving Ghostboy a big shout-out on The Big Picture podcast.
https://www.theringer.com/2018/11/1/18050450/luca-guadagnino-on-the-gory-glory-of-suspiria
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: RegularKarate on November 06, 2018, 01:52:21 PM
I'm here to say this is one of my favorite films in a VERY long time.
I get that it's a little long, but the absolute second I started to feel the length, it got so nuts that I forgot about the runtime completely. Can't wait to see it again.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Something Spanish on November 08, 2018, 10:58:43 AM
I understand the problem most have with this new Suspiria, either you go with the Doctor storyline or the movie won't work well for you. Swinton playing the feeble geriatric  doc was a bit distracting, maybe would have worked better had I not known she was underneath all that makeup. There is much to love about this, Guadagnino's influence being a top contender. The movie carries its weight in mood and direction.  Feels  like the only way to remake this would be adding meat to its weightless story, which as I understand seems to be the main problem for folk, the tacked on political backdrop and added storylines supposedly feel unnecessary. For the most part I loved it, was whisked away by its mystique, its deathly chrome like palette. Dakota Johnson and Swinton are both strong forces, Johnson proving her ballet chops with each tip-toed spin, Swinton giving the Grim Reaper a good run for his money. Immediately felt the need to rewatch it after stumbling bleary eyed out of the theatre at 2am. Gore  was more subdued than what I expected, the lion's share kept tightly coiled until finale, as was the overall horror. Don't get me wrong, the movie still had me freaked,  at the very least grossed out, but if you're seeking a typical horror movie this most likely will not cut it. It's much more operatic than that, throwing emotional weight around instead of trying to scare the shit out of you. There's The Nun for those more immediate sensationalist experiences. The finale still delivers the goods, and the victim mutilation is as focused upon as any Argento kill, only Guadagnino strives for more than set-piece deaths, watching his attempt is endlessly fascinating. Can't wait to see this again, which should be a while since it's disappearing from most theatres this friday.   
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: putneyswipe on November 10, 2018, 07:13:28 AM
I'll say it... this was a turd. I would say it sucks everything aesthetically interesting and fun out of the original film, but Guadignino is clearly trying really hard to do something different here, but I'm not sure what. It feels more like Zulawski's Possession than Argento, but like others have noted this really feels like territory Aronofsky did much better in Mother. I didn't love Mother, but Aronofsky is clearly one of the most talented visual directors working, so he can pull things off that would make lesser filmmakers look ridiculous. Note to filmmakers: just because you show political/cultural shit in the background doesn't automatically mean your film has subtext, it just feels forced and distracting. The scenes with the old man felt like they were out of a completely different film. There's just a shocking lack of any character involvement or tension for a 2 and a half hour film

I just don't think he's nearly a good enough director to pull this off. There's a scene in the beginning that feels like a freshman student film that forgot to storyboard. It's so bad and intentionally off-putting that it must be intentional but it just feels amateurish. Apparently shooting on 35mm doesn't automatically make your film look good if you can't compose a series of frames. Also, when will directors realize that post-production slow motion ALWAYS looks terrible?

Can someone explain to me why bland Dakota Johnson continues to get big roles? Mia Goth was the one saving grace of this for me, she's terrific and should have been the lead.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: WorldForgot on November 10, 2018, 12:15:39 PM
Saw this for a third time yesterday, I think it's my favorite of the year.

My first watch, it felt like an explosion of ideas with a handful falling far off from the target. But now I feel the opposite of putney -- I love that it chews on early giallo's seediness and 35mm color tints with designed subtleties, as opposed to the original's Supernatural surrealism, and each frame is stitched into the next to a point where I've never felt the runtime, and always wanted to investigate each shot's production details. This works for me now as Suzy'z metaphysical guilt trip film and as psychological horror from Josef's POV.

What really helped is I finally saw Edward Yang's Terrorizers

That orange pick axe is the first foreboding prop pointed at our witness, but by the time Josef is sitting in the police office, the production design has literally turned on him.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Shughes on November 17, 2018, 07:28:38 PM
Just back from seeing this and not sure what my opinion is. I think I liked it. It sure is overlong and problematic and not for everybody, but it has a way of getting under your skin. Six people walked out during the screening I was at - two of them after arguing with me as I first asked politely, and then told them firmly, to put their phones away - and four due to the pacing from what I could tell.

Spoilers

I don't get why Tilda played multiple roles. I could tell it was her under make up from the first trailer but there was no cinematic payoff to it. I just don't get why they did it - all it did was distract me as I was waiting for some kind of reveal to this obvious trickery.

I also agree that slow motion looks terrible unless it's shot with slow motion in mind. There is an amateur feel to the film at times but I think that rough quality is part of it's alluring charm. It made me think of Nic Roeg during some of the montage work. And it's a lot better than Mother! in my opinion. Thom Yorke's score is excellent - some of the parts with lyrics reminded me of In Rainbows era Radiohead.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Sleepless on January 14, 2019, 04:42:55 PM
I loved it. 2+ hours but actually went by like a breeze. This is the kind of horror film I love, where it's more about the feeling you get throughout. I think the final third had some issues compared with the heights of everything that came before, but still... Can't wait to rewatch and dig into a lot more.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 15, 2019, 06:27:23 PM
(Light spoilers)

When I hear that a movie "goes off the rails at the end," I actively seek it out, and I usually end up appreciating it, if not loving it. I hoped that would be the case with Suspiria. It was not.

The first hour or so is absolutely magical. I was hooked. But let's be honest here: where it goes is sort of the whole point of the thing. And where it goes is definitely not good or satisfying or coherent in any way that one could extract any significant meaning from. Not only was it a crushing disappointment on a surface level; it left me believing that the movie never really had anything to say.

(I would love to be persuaded, but it would take a lot.)

And yes, Tilda Swinton's other role as the psychiatrist was just awful. For a while I sincerely thought it was another character in disguise, and that tearing off the rubber mask would be a plot development. But no. I just don't understand the point of it. Why do that to an actor? It certainly did nothing for the movie. Maybe it was an experiment to see how well Tilda Swinton could act without using a human face.

Quote from: Shughes on November 17, 2018, 07:28:38 PMAnd it's a lot better than Mother! in my opinion.

Blasphemy!

(In my view, mother! knows what it's doing in every scene and every moment from beginning to end, and it does so masterfully. Suspiria sort of knows what it's doing, then just kind of farts itself to death.)
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 29, 2019, 12:15:45 AM
After hearing and reading more about this movie, I'm beginning to rethink my opinion. There's an actual mythology with clear intent that I didn't really care to grapple with. I still cannot abide Old Man Swinton, but I fully understand why a person would love Suspiria all the way through the end.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Robyn on January 29, 2019, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 29, 2019, 12:15:45 AM
After hearing and reading more about this movie, I'm beginning to rethink my opinion. There's an actual mythology with clear intent that I didn't really care to grapple with. I still cannot abide Old Man Swinton, but I fully understand why a person would love Suspiria all the way through the end.

Didn't read your earlier post until now. It felt like a movie that would be right up your alley, so I'm a bit surprised that you didn't love it. There's definitely a lot of stuff that flew right over my head the first time I watched it. Can't wait to rewatch it personally.

And what has wrong with Old Man Swinton? Didn't think it was that distracting while watching it. 
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: csage97 on April 11, 2019, 01:15:35 AM
I finally got around to watching this. Spoilers may follow, just to warn. On the whole, I quite enjoyed it, though I do have some lingering thoughts about how it could've in all practicality been trimmed down a bit .... But on the other hand, I'm personally not averse to different kinds of pacing, and it actually felt oddly (maybe ironically?) refreshing to see a story be told in this way. At times, it felt tedious with its setting, pacing, acting, and flushed-of-colour cinematography, but the irony here for me personally is that it all fit seemed to amplify the mood of the characters and the themes and pull me into its world. There's stuff in the story about shame, both about those who feel it and those who suffer the consequences of people who are or aren't shameful about something bad they did by abusing their power. It's in part about thinking about and taking time to reflect on actions, or about the slowness that comes after others have negatively affected your life. And so the slow, drab mood seemed to envelope me in melancholy, which some of the characters feel.

Still, some of the story and probably some intended meaning did seem to instead deliver vagueness. The story mostly made sense to me, though there are parts that still seem unclear (for example, did only those who supported Madame Markos abuse their power and abuse the girls in the company? I can't really remember and it's hard to take note of who supported Markos and what they did throughout the movie). Nonetheless, I want to say that the movie gave me enough to work with and enough to think about, which becomes a lot of the fun too. Even that stuff I just said about shame ... I'm actually unsure of whether or not Susie wants Klemperer (the elderly doctor) to be held accountable for saying some women were delusional when they were not. (Should he be in the eyes of the movie's characters?) So the story gets confusing in places like that, and possibly even confused in itself.

Admittedly, I didn't know that Swinton played Klemperer throughout watching the film. It worked for me pretty well, so I don't really have complaints (in other words, I don't think anything was lost by having Swinton play the doctor).

The ending was pretty crazy, really. That ritual scene with Thom Yorke playing on the soundtrack was awesome. Granted, I am on the fence about the poorly done slow mo. It feels very student/amateur film-ish at times, and I'm unsure if it immersed me more or if I should feel it came out campy. I dunno.

I'll probably watch this one again and try to pick up on anything I missed/see if there are more pieces to be put together.

Edit: Some other questions that I have:
-Is Susie good or bad by the end? She seems to me to either be taking out vengeance (albeit in a horrific way) on the Markos supporters for abusing power, or simply claiming power for power's sake with no moral influence factoring in, and thus abusing power for her own gain. However, if she is getting vengeance, does she not consider Klemperer to have abused his own power by claiming delusion in the women he's "treated"?
-How do the students not pick up on the odd behaviour of the teachers? The teachers/directors obviously behave in some off-putting ways, which is very apparent to the audience right away. It's clear that Susie should be put off by the behaviour at the academy and isn't, and that's probably because of her what's inside of her that becomes her awakening (a prime example of this is when she see's the teachers messing around with the bewitched detectives). But what about the other students? Clearly at least some of them are not in on the conspiracy, as evidenced by what happens to Sarah and Patricia. Do only some of them start to suspect the weird behaviour, and is the movie telling us this by what happens with Olga, Sarah, and Patricia, while the other students are just happy to be in the academy and dismiss/don't notice the suspicious behaviour?
-How is the disappearance of the Markos supporters explained the next day after the ritual to the remaining students?
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: pynchonikon on November 12, 2020, 01:41:53 PM
(Not that there was anyone who actually ever believed in this possibility)

https://www.twitter.com/FilmUpdates/status/1326925456566849536

Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: WorldForgot on November 12, 2020, 02:14:05 PM
btw We Are Who We Are iz beautiful!! Anyone interested in coming of age stories should at least try it out.

Also JB i want to do a Halfborn style essay on Suspiria 2018, cuz Halfborn iz that frkn inspiring and this film quite misregarded.
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on November 12, 2020, 04:24:58 PM
Oh that could be fun...
Title: Re: Suspiria
Post by: Drenk on November 12, 2020, 04:34:40 PM
It could be named: UNMADE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27c3JaZq4_c