Joker (2019)

[jenkins]

it's getting closer to talking about a fun movie. not great, but not terrible, it's just a fucking movie

[Tictacbk]

Um... this just won the Golden Bear at the Venice Film Festival.

[jenkins]

never heard of it

genuinely the first time xixax has ever mentioned that award

[Reel]

I remember when I won my first award...

[Drenk]

What is Xixax spirit animal? A frog? Where is the Golden Frog? La Grenouille d'Or.

[jenkins]

i ran a search and the winner of the golden bear has never been mentioned here until it became the joker. that fascinates me

[wilberfan]

i ran a search and the winner of the golden bear has never been mentioned here until it became the joker. that fascinates me

Ditto.  MAGNOLIA won the Golden Bear--amazing that didn't merit a single mention around here...

[Reel]

You guys just haven't been hanging around long enough...

From Modage's "Possible Cigs and Redvines interview" thread

Ask him how many bears he has drunk.

I got your answer:

This stems from Robyn asking someone that question in one of our AMA's, I think. That's what I was referencing earlier

[jenkins]

wait a second oh okay. the golden bear is for the Berlin International Film Festival, that's where Magnolia won. the golden lion is for the Venice Film Festival, that's where Joker won

[jenkins]

no one off-the-top knows who's won berlin since then, or who won venice previously, but what's clicked in my head is that Joker is arriving as a serious film of notable achievement, with a questionable director festival accredited, and reputable actors present. it's not even so much about whether this is a good or bad film, but rather the cultural implications of this entry in comic book movies. it's what Logan wanted but this will have a different level of support

oh, it's been written about

Todd Phillips' "Joker" is unquestionably the boldest reinvention of "superhero" cinema since "The Dark Knight"; a true original that's sure to be remembered as one of the most transgressive studio blockbusters of the 21st Century. It's also a toxic rallying cry for self-pitying incels, and a hyper-familiar origin story so indebted to "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy" that Martin Scorsese probably deserves an executive producer credit. It's possessed by the kind of provocative spirit that's seldom found in any sort of mainstream entertainment, but also directed by a glorified edgelord who lacks the discipline or nuance to responsibly handle such hazardous material, and who reliably takes the coward's way out of the narrative's most critical moments.

"Joker" is the human-sized and adult-oriented comic book movie that Marvel critics have been clamoring for — there's no action, no spandex, no obvious visual effects, and the whole thing is so gritty and serious that DCEU fanboys will feel as if they've died and seen the Snyder Cut — but it's also the worst-case scenario for the rest of the film world, as it points towards a grim future in which the inmates have taken over the asylum, and even the most repulsive of mid-budget character studies can be massive hits (and Oscar contenders) so long as they're at least tangentially related to some popular intellectual property. The next "Lost in Translation" will be about Black Widow and Howard Stark spending a weekend together at a Sokovia hotel; the next "Carol" will be an achingly beautiful period drama about young Valkyrie falling in love with a blonde woman she meets in an Asgardian department store.

[Sleepless]

I will admit that I hadn't realized that both Berlin and Venice award a Golden Bear.

I wanted to see this anyway in my usual desperately optimistic way, but now I'm really curious to see what's up.

Also, rumor is they're planning to link up Joker sequels with the Robert Pattinson Batman for a supposed Arthouse Gotham Cinematic Universe.

[Sleepless]

What is Xixax spirit animal? A frog? Where is the Golden Frog? La Grenouille d'Or.

Gotta be. In fact, I second this to be the new name of the "Best Film of the Year Award" beginning 2020.

[Alethia]

The only reasonable choice.

[Alethia]

https://twitter.com/TrentShy/status/1167970969018863616

[Ravi]

Todd Phillips' "Joker" is unquestionably the boldest reinvention of "superhero" cinema since "The Dark Knight"; a true original that's sure to be remembered as one of the most transgressive studio blockbusters of the 21st Century. It's also a toxic rallying cry for self-pitying incels, and a hyper-familiar origin story so indebted to "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy" that Martin Scorsese probably deserves an executive producer credit.

Whenever a superhero film is hailed with words like "reinvention," it's usually heavily modeled on another highly regarded film. Joker was influenced by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy.  Logan was influenced by Shane. The Dark Knight was influenced by Heat.

I don't inherently have a problem with a film being modeled on another one (Taxi Driver itself was influenced by The Searchers), but is there not a way to make a stand-out superhero film without directly tying it to a classic or using influences that are immediately obvious?