books about films?

[kotte]

i get you, sounds like it ties into three act structure.

i'll check both our for sure!  It's hard to come by anything good which provides new thought, most books just cover things that through a little trial and error, on your own, you'd get anyway.

-sl-

All the books on screenwriting out there are all the same, yes. I've read many of them and they all cover the exact same things, with examples from Titanic and Sleepless in Seattle.

The wonderful thing about Art of Dramatic Writing is that it covers nothing on screenwriting. It's all about storytelling, drama, conflict and character. No matter what medium you're working in. This book change my attitude towards writing. It was all about art for me but now it's about craft. Storytelling is structure...
The author refers to himself as We and the reader as Young Playwright.

read and disagree with me...

[socketlevel]

i get you, sounds like it ties into three act structure.

i'll check both our for sure!  It's hard to come by anything good which provides new thought, most books just cover things that through a little trial and error, on your own, you'd get anyway.

-sl-

All the books on screenwriting out there are all the same, yes. I've read many of them and they all cover the exact same things, with examples from Titanic and Sleepless in Seattle.

The wonderful thing about Art of Dramatic Writing is that it covers nothing on screenwriting. It's all about storytelling, drama, conflict and character. No matter what medium you're working in. This book change my attitude towards writing. It was all about art for me but now it's about craft. Storytelling is structure...
The author refers to himself as We and the reader as Young Playwright.

read and disagree with me...

hey you never-never know, i might surprise you...  but i guess that's become an M.O. of mine.

I'll go buy today, read, then tell you what i think.  interesting, because i see this tying into another issue we discussed in a different forum (at least i'm pretty sure it was you?).  this concept of premise you mention, and the construction of story, roots with a message/observation; articulating the meaning of the story in the most straight forward/concise manner.  sounds like i'll really dig it.  just to add one thing to what you're saying about writing, i think craft is the form of the art/inspiration; both are balanced and paramount.

btw i love the second Bukowski quote.

-sl-

[kotte]

i get you, sounds like it ties into three act structure.

i'll check both our for sure!  It's hard to come by anything good which provides new thought, most books just cover things that through a little trial and error, on your own, you'd get anyway.

-sl-

All the books on screenwriting out there are all the same, yes. I've read many of them and they all cover the exact same things, with examples from Titanic and Sleepless in Seattle.

The wonderful thing about Art of Dramatic Writing is that it covers nothing on screenwriting. It's all about storytelling, drama, conflict and character. No matter what medium you're working in. This book change my attitude towards writing. It was all about art for me but now it's about craft. Storytelling is structure...
The author refers to himself as We and the reader as Young Playwright.

read and disagree with me...

hey you never-never know, i might surprise you...  but i guess that's become an M.O. of mine.

I'll go buy today, read, then tell you what i think.  interesting, because i see this tying into another issue we discussed in a different forum (at least i'm pretty sure it was you?).  this concept of premise you mention, and the construction of story, roots with a message/observation; articulating the meaning of the story in the most straight forward/concise manner.  sounds like i'll really dig it.  just to add one thing to what you're saying about writing, i think craft is the form of the art/inspiration; both are balanced and paramount.

btw i love the second Bukowski quote.

-sl-

I don't know if we discussed it but I mentioned it a few posts up.

Craft...art...it's all a matter of how you put it. Art for me is something abstract while craft is logic. Storytelling is structur (=logic) and therefor craft but how you choose to tell that story with the camera is more about artistic choices. I would say that Tarantino is more a craftsman while Lynch is definitely more on the other side...odd, weird, uncomprehensible...an artist.

I'm looking forward to your opinions on it!

[socketlevel]

i get you, sounds like it ties into three act structure.

i'll check both our for sure!  It's hard to come by anything good which provides new thought, most books just cover things that through a little trial and error, on your own, you'd get anyway.

-sl-

All the books on screenwriting out there are all the same, yes. I've read many of them and they all cover the exact same things, with examples from Titanic and Sleepless in Seattle.

The wonderful thing about Art of Dramatic Writing is that it covers nothing on screenwriting. It's all about storytelling, drama, conflict and character. No matter what medium you're working in. This book change my attitude towards writing. It was all about art for me but now it's about craft. Storytelling is structure...
The author refers to himself as We and the reader as Young Playwright.

read and disagree with me...

hey you never-never know, i might surprise you...  but i guess that's become an M.O. of mine.

I'll go buy today, read, then tell you what i think.  interesting, because i see this tying into another issue we discussed in a different forum (at least i'm pretty sure it was you?).  this concept of premise you mention, and the construction of story, roots with a message/observation; articulating the meaning of the story in the most straight forward/concise manner.  sounds like i'll really dig it.  just to add one thing to what you're saying about writing, i think craft is the form of the art/inspiration; both are balanced and paramount.

btw i love the second Bukowski quote.

-sl-

I don't know if we discussed it but I mentioned it a few posts up.

Craft...art...it's all a matter of how you put it. Art for me is something abstract while craft is logic. Storytelling is structur (=logic) and therefor craft but how you choose to tell that story with the camera is more about artistic choices. I would say that Tarantino is more a craftsman while Lynch is definitely more on the other side...odd, weird, uncomprehensible...an artist.

I'm looking forward to your opinions on it!

couldn't agree more

-sl-

[cowboykurtis]

i get you, sounds like it ties into three act structure.

i'll check both our for sure!  It's hard to come by anything good which provides new thought, most books just cover things that through a little trial and error, on your own, you'd get anyway.

-sl-

All the books on screenwriting out there are all the same, yes. I've read many of them and they all cover the exact same things, with examples from Titanic and Sleepless in Seattle.

The wonderful thing about Art of Dramatic Writing is that it covers nothing on screenwriting. It's all about storytelling, drama, conflict and character. No matter what medium you're working in. This book change my attitude towards writing. It was all about art for me but now it's about craft. Storytelling is structure...
The author refers to himself as We and the reader as Young Playwright.

read and disagree with me...

hey you never-never know, i might surprise you...  but i guess that's become an M.O. of mine.

I'll go buy today, read, then tell you what i think.  interesting, because i see this tying into another issue we discussed in a different forum (at least i'm pretty sure it was you?).  this concept of premise you mention, and the construction of story, roots with a message/observation; articulating the meaning of the story in the most straight forward/concise manner.  sounds like i'll really dig it.  just to add one thing to what you're saying about writing, i think craft is the form of the art/inspiration; both are balanced and paramount.

btw i love the second Bukowski quote.

-sl-

I don't know if we discussed it but I mentioned it a few posts up.

Craft...art...it's all a matter of how you put it. Art for me is something abstract while craft is logic. Storytelling is structur (=logic) and therefor craft but how you choose to tell that story with the camera is more about artistic choices. I would say that Tarantino is more a craftsman while Lynch is definitely more on the other side...odd, weird, uncomprehensible...an artist.

I'm looking forward to your opinions on it!

i think its a double edge sword with both.

regarding writing:  
structure = logic
the story you choose to tell = art

a well structured story may be in good in craft, but does not neccesarily mean its interesting.

regarding filmmaking:
technique and execution = craft
how and why one chooses to execute = art

a well crafted film is nothing without story - just as a great story poorly crafted will suffer.

one can say that one is craft and the other is art - it really is all relative.

they can not be seperated in my opinion. Filmmaking needs a perfect blend of craft and art.

Lynch is both a craftsman and an artist. Just as tarantino is.

[socketlevel]

i get you, sounds like it ties into three act structure.

i'll check both our for sure!  It's hard to come by anything good which provides new thought, most books just cover things that through a little trial and error, on your own, you'd get anyway.

-sl-

All the books on screenwriting out there are all the same, yes. I've read many of them and they all cover the exact same things, with examples from Titanic and Sleepless in Seattle.

The wonderful thing about Art of Dramatic Writing is that it covers nothing on screenwriting. It's all about storytelling, drama, conflict and character. No matter what medium you're working in. This book change my attitude towards writing. It was all about art for me but now it's about craft. Storytelling is structure...
The author refers to himself as We and the reader as Young Playwright.

read and disagree with me...

hey you never-never know, i might surprise you...  but i guess that's become an M.O. of mine.

I'll go buy today, read, then tell you what i think.  interesting, because i see this tying into another issue we discussed in a different forum (at least i'm pretty sure it was you?).  this concept of premise you mention, and the construction of story, roots with a message/observation; articulating the meaning of the story in the most straight forward/concise manner.  sounds like i'll really dig it.  just to add one thing to what you're saying about writing, i think craft is the form of the art/inspiration; both are balanced and paramount.

btw i love the second Bukowski quote.

-sl-

I don't know if we discussed it but I mentioned it a few posts up.

Craft...art...it's all a matter of how you put it. Art for me is something abstract while craft is logic. Storytelling is structur (=logic) and therefor craft but how you choose to tell that story with the camera is more about artistic choices. I would say that Tarantino is more a craftsman while Lynch is definitely more on the other side...odd, weird, uncomprehensible...an artist.

I'm looking forward to your opinions on it!

i think its a double edge sword with both.

regarding writing:  
structure = logic
the story you choose to tell = art

a well structured story may be in good in craft, but does not neccesarily mean its interesting.

regarding filmmaking:
technique and execution = craft
how and why one chooses to execute = art

a well crafted film is nothing without story - just as a great story poorly crafted will suffer.

one can say that one is craft and the other is art - it really is all relative.

they can not be seperated in my opinion. Filmmaking needs a perfect blend of craft and art.

Lynch is both a craftsman and an artist. Just as tarantino is.

i think he's talking about at the story stage.  tarantino and lynch do lean towards the opposite ends though; you'd have to agree with that.  both are artists, but one is far more cerebral.

i agree with everything you're saying though.  mind you, one thing to note, these days great craft (just regarding filming, not script writing) is commonplace.  so i have more interest in a film that has a good story but the craft isn't up to par than vice versa.  don't get me wrong, you want both but everyone getting into the industry seems to stop at just being technologically driven.

-sl-

[kotte]

What elevates this book is the fact that it's about storytelling and structure (not aimed at a particular medium) which also makes it a study of man and his psychology. And that, I find very fascinating (it also have some biology in it ).
Not everything Lajos Egri says in the book is gold, though. There definitely are moments where I totally disagree. But that allows me to more carefully reevaluate my own opinion and it forces me to take stand.

There are one thing Egri writes that really resonates in The Aviator, the end especially.
"No doubt about it, there were ruthless characters throughout history, and they were the ones who influenced, for better or for worse, the destiny of man."

And the book wasn't written yesterday...
"...he must have additional talent to write for that new and exciting medium, television"

[GoneSavage]

The Film Sense (by Sergei Eisenstein).

Would you or someone else care to discuss the better Eisenstein text -- The Film Sense or The Film Form?  Highlights of each or personal preferences?

[cron]

eizZZZzzenstein. kubrick knew it.

[kotte]

socket, did you ever get to read The Art of Dramatic Writing?

[MacGuffin]

Indie's 'Dirty' trick
Duo to turn tome into laffer
Source: Variety

The influence of Harvey Weinstein and Robert Redford on the indie film scene provided the intrigue in Peter Biskind's 2004 "Down and Dirty Pictures: Miramax, Sundance and the Rise of Independent Film." Now, helmer Ken Bowser and scribe Dean Craig are hoping the behind-the-scenes drama can provide enough fodder for a laffer.

Pair has teamed with Palm-Star Entertainment to develop Biskind's "Down and Dirty Pictures" into a feature-length comedy, with Bowser aboard to direct and Craig signed to adapt.

Palm-Star CEO and co-founder Kevin Frakes is producing. Palm-Star chairman and co-founder Stephan Paternot will exec produce with Tiwary Entertainment Group's Sriram Das and Gary Kaplan.

Bowser directed a 2003 docu based on Biskind's book "Easy Riders, Raging Bulls: How the Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll Generation Saved Hollywood." He describes "Down and Dirty Pictures" as "outrageous" and "insane."

Tome tracks the rise of independent film starting in the 1990s thanks to such films as "Pulp Fiction" and "sex, lies, and videotape." Weinstein and Redford, who figure prominently throughout the book, are credited with playing a key part in the success of the genre, though both are criticized for their personal dealings. A rep for Weinstein at the Weinstein Co. had no comment Tuesday.

" 'Down and Dirty Pictures' was so obviously a movie that I was a little amazed when we managed to snatch up the rights before the studios moved in," Bowser said. "You couldn't make these guys up. They're like offensive linemen rampaging across the fields of Sundance sacking anyone who gets in their way, while the handsome movie star owner of the stadium smiles benevolently down on his charges. If that's not a movie, I don't know what is."

Bowser has also done some work for "Saturday Night Live," including helming "Saturday Night Live in the 80s: Lost & Found." More recently, he wrote and produced a John Ford/John Wayne episode of "American Masters." Craig wrote pics "Caffeine" and "Death at a Funeral."

Palm-Star opened shop last year. Shingle's early credits include Theo Avgerinos' "Fifty Pills," which bowed at this year's Tribeca Film Festival, and Pete Chatmon's "Premium."

[MacGuffin]

Excerpt: Christine Vachon's "A Killer Life"
Christine Vachon's newest imprint, "A Killer Life," is being teased on the Simon & Schuster site where open access to the book's introduction is offered.

Note Vachon's sartorial prep for L.A.:

My strategy is to stay a moving target. I've got a reputation for "edgy," "dark" material -- the kind of movie where you're maybe rooting for the bad guy. I'm also frequently accused of operating with a political agenda. A gay agenda. An aggressive-New Yorker agenda. When I go to L.A. for meetings, sometimes I feel like I have to put on my "uniform" -- black pants, black T-shirt, combat boots -- so that nobody gets confused and thinks I've come over to the bright side.


http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&pid=503951&agid=2

[modage]

A Killer Life: Indie Producer Christine Vachon in Person!
Buy Tickets: http://www.filmlinc.com/tix.php?e=8265
Mon Sept 25 7pm

Special Screening of Boys Don't Cry (Kimberly Peirce, USA, 1999; 118m) followed by discussion and book signing.

On the occasion of the publication of Christine Vachon's memoir A Killer Life: How an Independent Film Producer Survives Deals and Disasters in Hollywood and Beyond (Simon & Schuster), the Film Society is pleased to welcome Ms. Vachon to the Walter Reade Theater for a screening of Boys Don't Cry (starring Best Actress Oscar© winner Hilary Swank). This Academy Award© winning film, which was shown in the New York Film Festival in 1999, is a sensitive and subtle rendering of the tragic true story of Brandon Teena, whose masquerade as a man courted jealousy and met a violent revenge. In reviewing the film, Janet Maslin of the New York Times called executive producer Christine Vachon "habitually daring."

The screening will be followed by a discussion about life in an independent world with the Film Society's program director, Richard Peña. At the end of the evening, Ms. Vachon will be signing copies of A Killer Life, which will be available for sale in the Walter Reade lobby.

Since teaming up with Todd Haynes on his first feature, Poison, in 1991, Christine Vachon has become an iconic figure in the independent cinema scene. In fact, her production company, Killer Films, is one of the few truly independent production companies still around. Many of her films have been featured by the Film Society — Swoon (Tom Kalin, 1992), I Shot Andy Warhol (Marry Harron, 1996) and Camp (Todd Graff, 2003) all had their New York premieres in New Directors/New Films, while Dottie Gets Spanked (Todd Haynes, 1993), Happiness (Todd Solondz, 1998), Velvet Goldmine (Todd Haynes, 1998), Storytelling (Todd Solondz, 2001) and Boys Don't Cry (Kimberly Peirce, 1999) premiered at the New York Film Festival.

[Ghostboy]

Shooting To Kill was a very formative read for this then-neophyte filmmaker - I just ordered this, and can't wait to read it.

[matt35mm]

She's making an S.F. appearance, and I'm going to try my best to make it.  There's a fee, but hey, we get a swanky wine and cheese reception (courtesy of the Whole Foods on Harrison, no doubt)!  Even as a non-filmmaker, Shooting to Kill was a great read for me.

CHRISTINE VACHON | TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 26
Film Producer; Author, A Killer Life

In conversation with PETER STEIN, Executive Director, San Francisco Jewish Film Festival

SURVIVING HOLLYWOOD: NOTES FROM AN INDEPENDENT FILM PRODUCER

How do smaller studios and filmmakers get ahead in the cut-throat film world? Academy Award nominee Vachon broke into the Hollywood boys club as a producer on the indie scene. Get the dirt from the woman whose credits include some of the most acclaimed independent pictures of the past decade, such as Hedwig & The Angry Inch and Boys Don't Cry.

5:30 p.m., Wine and cheese reception | 6:00 p.m., Program | 7:00 p.m., Book signing | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | $12 for Members, $18 for Non-Members

http://www.commonwealthclub.org/sf.html

OOOOOOH!

I'm gonna try to make this as well.  I also loved reading Shooting to Kill, and look forward to reading this new book.  And getting it signed!

WATCH YOUR BACK, LUCID!