The Master - Spoiler-Free Thread

[socketlevel]

i just finished the 2nd draft of a script i've been working on for 6 months or so, i'd say just get it down and subsequent drafts are trimming it and getting rid of the shit. it's more important to get it down then judge it as you're doing it. that will only discourage you and halt the creativity imo. they always say first draft is from the heart and 2nd draft is from the mind. with the way i go about it, i think it's a pretty flawless method to follow that rule. flurishes in a script can either come across very pretentious or inspired, you'll always have more time to analyze them later, don't worry about sucking on some of it the first go.

if you're looking for inspiration read "on writing" by stephen king and "story" (made oh so famous now) by robert mckee. they won't make you good but they sure as hell made me think i could tackle the world!

[Pozer]

I'm hesitant to read it the whole thing. I read the draft of CMBB that was floating around and I kind of wish I hadn't. 

haha, remembering back to when you wanted the whole movie spoiled!

On a related note, I haven't seen The Hurt Locker yet, so the only reference point I have for Jeremy Renner is this psychotic vampire that he once played on a somewhat memorable episode of the Joss Whedon show, Angel:



It's kind of interesting to see how much he's blown up since then, status wise.

anyone remember him from that reality show THe It Factor? great portrait of him as a struggling actor. i remember when he came forced to choose between taking a role in SWAT or a much more prominent part in another film, cant recall which. he was torn and a sobbing mess. SWAT was much more pay to help his financial struggles which was obvs the way he went. anyone memba that?

[Fernando]

imdb says he turned down a role in the big bounce to be on swat.

[Pubrick]

people willing to read a PTA script before the movie comes out are a small demographic. if he does mind, which he shouldn't, i'm sure it's not to the same extent as the situation with the early VHS prints of boogie nights leaking. he should be honored that people love his work so much to dedicate that kind of fandom and time. i would be in his shoes.

i don't think there's anything wrong with ppl reading scripts before a film comes out, leaked or stolen or whatever. but i highly doubt he would be "honored" to have his film seen in any way before the film is finished. it's not a directors cut or anything that the studio has tried to suppress and he is proud to have released, it's a leaked copy of an unfinished story. i think it's ridiculous for you to say "and he shouldn't" like it's a completely obvious position to take. dude works YEARS on his films, it's true it makes it easier to dismiss because only a handful of freaks want to read the thing or even care that much but if it were MILLIONS of ppl reading the story prematurely it could hav some real consequences on the success of the film (hype-wise) and he would hav a reason to mind, other than just basic reasons of artistic integrity.

it's ok for us to read the script pre-release cos it's out of his hands now, but he CAN and probably SHOULD mind.

[MacGuffin]

anyone remember him from that reality show THe It Factor? great portrait of him as a struggling actor. i remember when he came forced to choose between taking a role in SWAT or a much more prominent part in another film, cant recall which. he was torn and a sobbing mess. SWAT was much more pay to help his financial struggles which was obvs the way he went. anyone memba that?

I do. It was a great show. Used to be on Bravo. It was a huge Sophie's Choice for him. I remember recognizing him when I saw SWAT and Dahmer.

I remember there was a brother and sister they followed too, and saw the sister in few commercials after that show cancelled.

[socketlevel]

people willing to read a PTA script before the movie comes out are a small demographic. if he does mind, which he shouldn't, i'm sure it's not to the same extent as the situation with the early VHS prints of boogie nights leaking. he should be honored that people love his work so much to dedicate that kind of fandom and time. i would be in his shoes.

i don't think there's anything wrong with ppl reading scripts before a film comes out, leaked or stolen or whatever. but i highly doubt he would be "honored" to have his film seen in any way before the film is finished. it's not a directors cut or anything that the studio has tried to suppress and he is proud to have released, it's a leaked copy of an unfinished story. i think it's ridiculous for you to say "and he shouldn't" like it's a completely obvious position to take. dude works YEARS on his films, it's true it makes it easier to dismiss because only a handful of freaks want to read the thing or even care that much but if it were MILLIONS of ppl reading the story prematurely it could hav some real consequences on the success of the film (hype-wise) and he would hav a reason to mind, other than just basic reasons of artistic integrity.

it's ok for us to read the script pre-release cos it's out of his hands now, but he CAN and probably SHOULD mind.

I'd agree if it was my first script, or potentially the 2nd. however he's got a good track record. it's less about proving himself now. like if it was my introduction to the world as a writer i'd be really paranoid about people taking the blemishes as a final product. if i were in his position (something i can only extrapolate and would hope to remain humble) i guess i'd be more flattered that people were thirsty for my material. even if i was pissed, i would hope someone close would remind me that people love the stuff so much and to see it in a good light.

i read the first 20 pages and stopped. it's strange cuz i read it as way more playful then when i first heard about the project. i didn't want to go on, i think i got enough of a taste for it and for all i know it'll change a lot.

[Gittes]

I can see both sides to the argument, I suppose. However, if he were still trying to prove himself and hadn't yet made a name for himself, then even fewer people would be clamoring to read the script and it would be even less of a significant factor in the evaluation of either the film or his talent as a writer/director.

Either way, I hope it is an issue that he will touch on whenever he starts on the press junket for this film. I'm curious about who was responsible for leaking it, as well. Although, that's probably not a question that will ever get answered.

[matt35mm]

As a writer, and someone who has done a lot of reading by writers about writing, I think that most likely PTA is not pleased with this draft getting leaked.  Only a small handful of people have actually read it, so perhaps he has the perspective to see that it's not that big of a deal--most people will be evaluating his work by the final film, as it should be.  Most writers, in discussing writing, say that they need to feel like they can create a space in which to take risks throughout the first draft.  The thinking can be, "I know this is shitty but I'll write it down anyway, because I need to get something down," or it can be, "I know that this MIGHT not work, but maybe it's crazy enough to work--I won't know until I write it down and look at it with fresh eyes in a few weeks' time."

Many writers do not show their first draft to anybody at all; it serves as a base to write a second draft, which they would only share with a few trusted people.  THIS draft of The Master (really, the Untitled Paul Thomas Anderson Project) is certainly at the presentable stage, so not a first draft, but an early draft, most likely in that "only share with a few trusted people" stage.  This is why I doubt that PTA is happy about strangers reading it.

I haven't heard of any writer, no matter how experienced/awarded/lauded, who has said that a good track record allows them to feel all that confident about their new work.  I do hear of writers who, after decades of writing and recognition, are still emotional wrecks who are completely doubtful of their ability to write anything good.  Being a well-known and respected writer comes with its own unique burden.  Hell, people REVERE PTA, so the possibility of being evaluated by an early draft might well be terrifying--as if people might think, "I thought you were the one who was going to save cinema; you're gonna try to save cinema with this?"

That said, it's out there, it's available, and I read it to educate myself as a writer.  I don't think it has spoiled the movie for me, and I gained a lot of insight into the writing process by reading it.  So much so that I am starting to read a lot more not-yet-produced scripts and early drafts.  There's so much to be learned as a writer.  I don't expect PTA to feel honored that I read his early draft--he might well hate knowing that fools like me are reading his script at this stage.  I did try, though, to make it clear in my mind that I was not evaluating the final film.  I wanted roughness, I craved the incomplete!  I got it, and through it saw the unique beauty of a work in progress.  It's teaching me how to build a script.

[md]

it's less about proving himself now.

I don't think that ever stops...

[Gittes]

Excellent points raised in the two posts above this one. Actually, bluejaytwist's following anecdote regarding the early TWBB script seems to lend credence to the idea that PTA would feel slightly uneasy about people looking in on his early drafts...

if it is the early draft i have, there is also an insane old western style 'peek out from behind poor shelter, say a one liner and shoot your revolver' style thing back and forth with daniel and his brother during the confrontation bit.

i asked paul about it after the san francisco screening and he pulled an /eli face and smirked a sheepish/guilty smirk saying: "yeahhhh, we got to preproduction and everyone looked at one another and said: 'how the fuck are we even going to shoot this'" and then they squished it shortly thereafter...

Given PTA's dislike for DVD commentaries, perhaps he prefers — to a certain extent, at least — to offer his viewers the finalized film itself, sans the excess of early drafts. That is, a coherent text that is somewhat divorced from any evidence of the stumbling around and contingencies that are so characteristic of early script writing and pre-production. He may not want people focusing on the preliminary grasping around, but rather to admire/consider what has in fact been finally and actually grasped.

[Pubrick]

it has nothing to do with the quality of writing in the draft or whether he would feel flattered or not that ppl are thirsty for his material.  he gets plenty of that flattering acknowledgement from the basic fact that he has so many fans both in his field and in the general public, he already knows that ppl like him cos ppl LIKE HIS FILMS.

the reaction that a fucking writer director who obviously hasn't finished making the film yet would hav about his script being leaked is not to do with any of those things, it's that it spoils the fucking story. you don't need to presuppose anything about someone's mental state or confidence to know that it's an original story and he wouldn't want ppl to know what happens until they watch the film! why is this a contentious point? i think it's pretty conclusive and it doesn't just apply to PTA.

why do you think that NO ONE releases an early draft of the script before a film is released? why do PIXAR and terence mallick and spielberg and anyone at all guard the details of their stories so closely? for fucking shits and giggles? this is ridiculous that it's even been discussed.. it spoils the movie and many filmmakers would never want anyone to see DELETED SCENES TAKEN FROM THE FINAL CUT let alone completely basic story elements from a leaked early draft of an original screenplay.

can someone with a sense of reality please stand up, raise your hand, or somehow acknowledge that this discussion is total bullshit?

[Ordet]

great insight from all. i'm up to page 56 and forced myself to stop. I do regret a bit reading CMBB before viewing the film. To me this early draft was very engaging. I could picture PSH playing this it's an amazing taylored role for him. I feel it's going to be very funny as well, fucked up funny.

P.S. remember PTA talked about how during the editing of CMBB they only had stake and vodka to be in the mind of Plainview. I wonder if they're gonna go for the home made booze this time. They could use chemicals they develope the film with to make their liquor.  

[Gittes]

I actually think that both this...

the quality of writing in the draft or whether he would feel flattered or not that ppl are thirsty for his material.

And this...

it spoils the fucking story.

...Are all factors worthy of consideration. Not either/or but both. Perhaps PTA would feel indignant due to having his early work exposed prematurely and due to the risk of having his film spoiled. In other words, I do agree that these are some good, possible reasons as to why he might disapprove of the script being leaked, but I'm not sure why you have to aggressively insist on one, definitive reason.

[md]

He's just in a position in his career where he can cherish the secrecy of his magic.  Blame it on the kids... 

Look at 'That Moment'... the sundance lab scenes!... Just raw and naked right there. dude use to whore himself out for the sake of his fans...and we loved him for that.  But now he doesn't have to do that.  That's it.  If you're reading his script right now, you're probably a huge fan and conscientious of what you're getting yourself into.  Spoilers?  Well ya, but its a great way to learn.  Damn i wonder how the other Anderson felt when her shit leaked... 

[Derek]

It may spoil the story, but then a lot of books are made into films which people see because they've read.