Xixax Film Forum

Film Discussion => News and Theory => Topic started by: Tiff on April 19, 2003, 05:50:46 AM

Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Tiff on April 19, 2003, 05:50:46 AM
doesn't it piss you off like hell when you're closely related to people that regard movies as only entertainment and don't see the art in film? I swear i'm gonna go insane  :twisted:
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Sigur Rós on April 19, 2003, 06:57:19 AM
Quote from: Tiffdoesn't it piss you off like hell when you're closely related to people that regard movies as only entertainment and don't see the art in film? I swear i'm gonna go insane  :twisted:

Well, I'm not going insane, but i know what you mean. It really pisses me of too. I tryin' to stop beatin' people up just because they say Big Lebowski isn't fun. Arghhh!!!  :shock:   :shock:
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Pedro on April 19, 2003, 11:45:10 AM
For similar bitching see:
http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=948
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 19, 2003, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: Tiffdoesn't it piss you off like hell when you're closely related to people that regard movies as only entertainment and don't see the art in film? I swear i'm gonna go insane  :twisted:

BOO HOO. all movies are entertainment,  you wouldn't watch them if they weren't.

(WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY) entertain:vt. to cherish, to treat with conversation; to please, to admit; with a view to consider.

(WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY) art: n. practical skill; a system of rules for certain actions, cunning; profession of a painter,etc

i guess your too much of an artist to cherish a film. films are entertainment, not art -- they always have been. yes, to make a film you have to be artful and master a certain craft, but the final film is entertainment. since roman times, story tellers have always been considered entertainers not artists.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: xerxes on April 19, 2003, 12:06:26 PM
it can't be both???
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 19, 2003, 12:08:43 PM
Quote from: xerxesit can't be both???

it can be whatever you want it to be. i just think theres a bad stigma behind the word entertainment. many think that film is this serious art form that "common folk" have raped and turned into entertianment. i think this is a poor attitude. i think many films are shit today becuase they are not entertaining. it all depends what entertains you. if you find magnolia entertaining, watch magnolia, if you find bullet proof monk entertaining, watch that.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Sigur Rós on April 19, 2003, 12:10:20 PM
Quote from: xerxesit can't be both???

no.......... :shock:
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Pubrick on April 19, 2003, 12:18:10 PM
i foresee a lame debate.

lemme save u the time.. movies can be both entertainment and art. eg. Singin' in the Rain.

they can be just really entertaining and become a thing of beauty, eg. Wizard of Oz.

they can be arty to the max and entertain/hypnotise ppl just by sheer brilliance of artistry, eg. 2001.

and as a bonus boring-debate defuser: the commercialization of christmas is at best a mixed blessing.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 19, 2003, 01:08:44 PM
Quote from: Pi foresee a lame debate.

lemme save u the time.. movies can be both entertainment and art. eg. Singin' in the Rain.

they can be just really entertaining and become a thing of beauty, eg. Wizard of Oz.

they can be arty to the max and entertain/hypnotise ppl just by sheer brilliance of artistry, eg. 2001.

and as a bonus boring-debate defuser: the commercialization of christmas is at best a mixed blessing.

you're so high and mighty. what would we do without your "lame debate" detector. i will make sure to only discuss topics that are posted by you, oh great one.
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: ludovico on April 19, 2003, 01:23:33 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtisfilms are entertainment, not art.

false
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Pubrick on April 19, 2003, 01:30:51 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtisyou're so high and mighty. what would we do without your "lame debate" detector. i will make sure to only discuss topics that are posted by you, oh great one.
i'm gonna ban u.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: MrBurgerKing on April 19, 2003, 01:48:47 PM
Listen to this post, maybe it will convince you. Forgive me if the grammar is poor, it's late (actually it's 3 in the afternoon, but I need an excuse). The fourteen year old cook at Burger King might consider his craft an artform. You, the consumers however, see it as a way to get fat, to eat your meal ASAP and get out of there. To the cook, it's his artform, it's his passion. Making that burger is what gets him up to go to work.

In your life, you might meet many Burger King elitists, who view this kid's job as an artform, and might crucify you for not believing it is. Who's right and who's wrong though? It's not so black and white. To the chef, he is an artist, but to you, he is a mutant.

Do you really expect everybody to view the cinema as an artform, all because you do? I've met many passionate people in my life, with their own artforms. I don't hold their art in as high esteem as they do, and they don't hold my art in as high esteem as I do. Do we strangle each other for this? Nope. Instead, we embrace this difference, because the fact of the matter is, if everybody had the same passion, we'd all be 14 year olds worshipping the construction of the perfect whopper.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: xerxes on April 19, 2003, 02:05:41 PM
with that i will go eat some fast food
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 19, 2003, 04:15:30 PM
Quote from: P
Quote from: cowboykurtisyou're so high and mighty. what would we do without your "lame debate" detector. i will make sure to only discuss topics that are posted by you, oh great one.
i'm gonna ban u.

why is that?
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cine on April 19, 2003, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtis
Quote from: P
Quote from: cowboykurtisyou're so high and mighty. what would we do without your "lame debate" detector. i will make sure to only discuss topics that are posted by you, oh great one.
i'm gonna ban u.

why is that?

Probably because you talked him down like an asshole for having the most valid point on the thread.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Sleuth on April 19, 2003, 04:47:06 PM
Quote from: Cinephile
Quote from: cowboykurtis
Quote from: P
Quote from: cowboykurtisyou're so high and mighty. what would we do without your "lame debate" detector. i will make sure to only discuss topics that are posted by you, oh great one.
i'm gonna ban u.

why is that?

Probably because you talked him down like an asshole for having the most valid point on the thread.

Also, I really don't think he was serious about the banning
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 19, 2003, 05:07:52 PM
Quote from: Cinephile
Quote from: cowboykurtis
Quote from: P
Quote from: cowboykurtisyou're so high and mighty. what would we do without your "lame debate" detector. i will make sure to only discuss topics that are posted by you, oh great one.
i'm gonna ban u.

why is that?

Probably because you talked him down like an asshole for having the most valid point on the thread.

your skin's about as thick as paper -- if you really think i was being an ASSHOLE, you're a little too sensitive. its all in good fun.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cine on April 19, 2003, 05:37:28 PM
It just didn't look in good fun to anyone.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Pubrick on April 19, 2003, 10:27:42 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtisyour skin's about as thick as paper -- if you really think i was being an ASSHOLE, you're a little too sensitive. its all in good fun.
no it wasn't. and if anyone's "too sensitive" it's obviously u.

u took my post personally when it wasn't directed at anyone and wasn't even offensive. u initiated the diss.

i was proving that this art/entertainment argument is stupid and all three positions are valid. next time don't be psychotic.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Tiff on April 19, 2003, 10:27:56 PM
I don't think i worded my point properly here. what got me really pissed off in the first place was a conversation i had with my auntie:

ME
Have you seen a clockwork orange?

MY AUNTIE
No

ME
how come?

MY AUNTIE
I don't watch many movies. i don't watch tv. i only watch interesting documentaries on sbs...

(for those of u that dont live in australia, sbs is a government-funded channel that depends on foreign programs for its content).

Really, i guess that what i was trying to say was that most of the people i know don't really understand the art of film, so they disregard the genius in it. i guess it's not really their fault because film has been commercialised to such an extent that it has, in a way, redefined the word 'entertainment'. i don't think a dictionary's definition can define such a subjective word, considering the many types of entertainment available to us, and the many varying levels of enjoyment of entertainment that appeals to different people.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Pubrick on April 19, 2003, 10:34:09 PM
yeah i think the original point was not as focused as that and yeah i don't understand ppl who don't watch movies.

the real crime tho is ppl who don't watch TV, cos we all know movies can be meaningful and great and whatever, but i think TV is unfairly dismissed as pure entertainment. i stopped arguing this a few weeks ago but this reminded me, TV is not as lame as ppl make it out to be. u know, it's like the neglected child, with a little encouragement he could do great things.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Tiff on April 19, 2003, 10:44:56 PM
true. but u gotta admit that there's a hell of a lot of shit of tv as opposed to what's at the cinemas. joe millionaire anybody? but hey, i'm not dissin' tv. i mean its my fave dirty, neglected streetkid.
Pubrick, are you referring to any programs in particular on tv?
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cine on April 19, 2003, 10:47:16 PM
People are just ignorant if they say TV sucks.. thats like a guy saying "Movies suck" because lets face it.. TV can be just as good to the right people... some may like the Sopranos and some might the Days of Our Lives.. if they invoke empathy then I say its good..


(note: I hate reality shows. period.)
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Pubrick on April 19, 2003, 11:54:20 PM
Quote from: TiffPubrick, are you referring to any programs in particular on tv?
yeah defintely, like Curb Your Enthusiasm and before him The Larry Sanders Show are/were a great example of innovative television. Sopranos is as classy as it gets, and on the comedy frontier no movie has ever made me laugh as hard as the simpsons did weekly for about 4 years straight.

in consistent and reliable entertainment, film has a LOT to owe to TV in keeping ppl happy while they wait a year for their next favorite movie.

the high proportion of shit shows is obviously due to how cheap it is to produce a series compared to a motion picture. but the problem is that it's all too tempting to take cheap and turn it into crapola, "how low can u go" style.. those rare occasions when the economy of television has inspired originality, at its best it has approached visionary scale, eg. Twin Peaks. sure it's entertainment, it's sumthing to pass the time, but the point made is that occasionally TV touches upon a truth far more engaging than the timeslot requires. and those are the shows and movies that i remember.
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Duck Sauce on April 20, 2003, 04:44:48 PM
Quote from: Tiffdoesn't it piss you off like hell when you're closely related to people that regard movies as only entertainment and don't see the art in film? I swear i'm gonna go insane  :twisted:

No. More frustrated. I dont really like to think of it like I am better than people, its just we all consider different things to be art. And it they want movies to just be entertainment, then good for them, it doesnt affect me.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: polkablues on April 21, 2003, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: TiffPubrick, are you referring to any programs in particular on tv?

Hate to step on Pubrickses's toes here, but I have to give props to "Boomtown" at any possible opportunity.  The average episode of this show is better than 90% of the movies that get made.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: ProgWRX on April 21, 2003, 03:08:40 PM
this is from last season but :


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2002%2FSHOWBIZ%2FNews%2F01%2F18%2Fgolden.globe.adv%2Fstory.24.show.jpg&hash=4588f06a33e6a2924b009ec14e6effc159740919)

ownz me.   8)
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on April 21, 2003, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: Duck SauceAnd it they want movies to just be entertainment, then good for them, it doesnt affect me.

I think the fact that most people consider movies to be entertainment, so movies are made for what people want, does affect me.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Sleuth on April 21, 2003, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: ProgWRXthis is from last season but :


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2002%2FSHOWBIZ%2FNews%2F01%2F18%2Fgolden.globe.adv%2Fstory.24.show.jpg&hash=4588f06a33e6a2924b009ec14e6effc159740919)

ownz me.   8)

Me too.  Also, Andy Richter Controls The Universe, but that was canceled recently  :evil:
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: sphinx on April 21, 2003, 03:37:49 PM
i think there needs to be a format change.  maybe it's impossible, since networks are locked into three seven minute segments for half hour shows.  shows on television are structured around these breaks, and it would be fun if the the creators didn't have to worry about them.  i don't know how that would be economically possible.  perhaps they could work the commercials into the program truman-show style.  but then that would ruin everything.  wraa
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: SoNowThen on April 21, 2003, 03:58:07 PM
I had a thought, but this is kind of muddy, since people can usually agree on the idea of "entertainment", but are totally divergent on the word "art". But here goes:

When somebody says something is entertaining, they usually mean that it passed the time in an agreeable manner (eg. a gawd-awful show like Hot Or Not can be entertaining for a couple minutes, if a really cute chick is showing her hot little body on the screen), but it wasn't something that they'd remember or care about after the passing moment. So I think we can all agree that things can be entertaining without being "art".

However, if you describe something as art, it usually means that not only were you entertained by it, but you hold it in higher esteem than most other things that entertained you. So it becomes something special and important to you, and thus exists as both art (that great intangible something) and entertainment. I guess my point is that if one can be included in the other, then they are not comparable because art is of a higher classification. Of course, it all becomes subjective, and probably depends on higher knowledge.

For example: I know nothing about painting, but I get a kick out of the Dogs Playing Poker pictures. Now, someone who had a deep education in painting might get really upset, saying that I shouldn't waste time looking at Dogs Playing Poker, but should instead try and see everything Picasso did. I probably won't have the time (or care) to do this, and so the Painting Guy could get really upset at me for willingly staying ignorant. This seems to me how regular people view film: they won't see any Fellini movies, but regularily catch Vin Diesel movies, and if they saw a Fellini anyway, they'd hate it because it's so different than what they're used to. But the thing about this example is that I would probably respect someone's opinion who knew a lot about painting, and take his word that Picasso is more important than Dogs Playing Poker. Yet the common filmgoer seems to still insist that Vin Diesel movies are better than Fellini. So I guess we're right back where we started.

...is this the longest post ever, or what?
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Sleuth on April 21, 2003, 04:41:14 PM
You are very smart and I appreciate you for typing that out
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 21, 2003, 05:27:07 PM
i agree that art is subjective. your example of the dog playing poker vs. picasso is a perfect example. now what if someone whos uneducated in art criticism thinks the dog painting is a work of art -- obviously an "art" critic will say that person doesn't know anything, picasso is brilliant. now, being that art is subjective; is one's opinion more valid than anothers? any art expert or film expert is a self proclaimed expert -- just because one's opinion is regarded highly within the public( eg roger ebert) doesn't neccessarily mean it's right or wrong.  if one thinks that vin diesel's xxx is art, and a film critic says hes an idiot, does it make his subjectve opinion any less valid? its pretty much circular logic. i think the real dilema comes down to: does something thats entertaining indirectly make it a peice of art and vice versa. -- beauty is in the eye of the beholder. thats why i dont like self proclaimed "film experts" getting their feathers ruffled about "common people" not liking films that they consider to be "art". its seems to be a very ignorant view point. becuase whether one likes it or not -- audience members that they label "common people" are the one's who are going to see your film. their opinion does matter at the end of the day -- because they're buying the tickets to see YOUR movie. i think its essential to make films that are engaging to a wide audience -- who the fuck wants to make films that will only be loved by pretentious  film "experts" -- i sure as hell know that i dont. this isn't an attak on anyone, just my subjective opinion.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Cecil on April 21, 2003, 07:03:10 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtiswho the fuck wants to make films that will only be loved by pretentious  film "experts"

i do. cause im a pretentious film expert, and i believe that the others like me (who have the same taste in film that i do) arent getting enough good modern movies. this is the same as a guy who likes horror films and will make films only for horror fans because he is not satisfied with modern horror films. horror is not appreciated by all (but is still a rather bankable genre)

you guys are right to say that "art" is subjective of course. but in my opinion, art is something that gives a certain aesthetic satisfaction to the viewer or listener (if its music) that is not 'necessarily' pleasurable. you like the dogs playing poker because it makes you laugh. you enjoy it. it "entertains" you. a picasso will make you "think." (or bore the hell out of you if you arent "into" that kind of "art"). i believe that this is the difference between "art" and "entertainment." art can also be entertainment but not always. and something entertaining will not always be "artistic" or at least not as much as something "artsy."

i think that another difference is that the"artist" has more of a statement or message to deliver through his art. (or not, and that in itself is the statement), whereas an "entertainer's" goal is to just make people laugh or escape in another world for a certain length of time.

of course both are "needed" in "society." i hope i didnt come off as dissing "entertainment."
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: ProgWRX on April 21, 2003, 09:31:06 PM
i have to say that i agree with cecil
couldnt have expressed it better
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: MrBurgerKing on April 21, 2003, 10:20:31 PM
Quote from: SoNowThenI had a thought, but this is kind of muddy, since people can usually agree on the idea of "entertainment", but are totally divergent on the word "art". But here goes:

When somebody says something is entertaining, they usually mean that it passed the time in an agreeable manner (eg. a gawd-awful show like Hot Or Not can be entertaining for a couple minutes, if a really cute chick is showing her hot little body on the screen), but it wasn't something that they'd remember or care about after the passing moment. So I think we can all agree that things can be entertaining without being "art".

However, if you describe something as art, it usually means that not only were you entertained by it, but you hold it in higher esteem than most other things that entertained you. So it becomes something special and important to you, and thus exists as both art (that great intangible something) and entertainment. I guess my point is that if one can be included in the other, then they are not comparable because art is of a higher classification. Of course, it all becomes subjective, and probably depends on higher knowledge.

For example: I know nothing about painting, but I get a kick out of the Dogs Playing Poker pictures. Now, someone who had a deep education in painting might get really upset, saying that I shouldn't waste time looking at Dogs Playing Poker, but should instead try and see everything Picasso did. I probably won't have the time (or care) to do this, and so the Painting Guy could get really upset at me for willingly staying ignorant. This seems to me how regular people view film: they won't see any Fellini movies, but regularily catch Vin Diesel movies, and if they saw a Fellini anyway, they'd hate it because it's so different than what they're used to. But the thing about this example is that I would probably respect someone's opinion who knew a lot about painting, and take his word that Picasso is more important than Dogs Playing Poker. Yet the common filmgoer seems to still insist that Vin Diesel movies are better than Fellini. So I guess we're right back where we started.

...is this the longest post ever, or what?

Good point. I said something similar, only my analogy involved fast food, while your analogy involved painting. Your analysis got more positive responses because generally painting is viewed more as an art than fast food. I say F that, fast food is an artform to the chefs who work there. Damn me, why couldn't I think of the Dogs Playing Poker?
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 21, 2003, 11:27:16 PM
cecil,
you said you're interested in making films for "pretentious film experts", who aren't getting "good modern films." you also compared this to someone making horror films to imporve the genre. let me get this straight -- you're saying that someone making horror films to improve the genre, is the same as you making films that are intended to please "pretentious film experts" -- since when was "pretentious film expert" a genre?
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Cecil on April 22, 2003, 09:29:34 AM
its not a genre, i was just compairing genre films to "films that will only be loved by pretentious film experts." hell, you can even consider it a genre as well

magnolia
running time: 188 minutes
genre: drama, over-indulgence
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 22, 2003, 09:52:53 AM
Quote from: cecil b. dementedits not a genre, i was just compairing genre films to "films that will only be loved by pretentious film experts." hell, you can even consider it a genre as well

magnolia
running time: 188 minutes
genre: drama, over-indulgence

i realize that -- i was just playing devil's advocate -- i still disgaree with your logic. furthermore -- id like you to name ONE film that fits into your "films ONLY loved by snobs" genre. if you think magnolia does, you're wrong -- i know plenty of people that aren't film experts, who love that film. it was written about very universal issues that reached far and wide -- id like to think that magnolia's intention wasn't solely for the sake of pleasing self proclaimed "film experts" -- any film written with this intention would be 120 pages of  self masturbation without a spark of inventive truth.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Cecil on April 22, 2003, 10:09:59 AM
that was very.... sneaky of you.

i understand what youre saying, but im surprised at your magnolia comment (who are those people you speak of? where have they been when the film wasnt doing too good at the b.o.?)... though im only saying its over-indulgent and maybe a little pretentious (if that), but it is also a drama and therefore can certainly appeal to other people. i think strictly experimental or abstract films are more the type to be liked only by a certain clique of film snobs. and besides, if we continue to use the horror genre example, not every horror fan will like every horror film, and im sure that certain horror-haters will be dragged to see certain horror films and will end up liking them.

i agree about the masturbation part, but why no spark of inventive truth?
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: SoNowThen on April 22, 2003, 10:18:23 AM
Cecil's right. I mean, Godard's early career seems dedicated to film snobs, with tons of in-jokes and references that only film-crazy people would like. Lots of great films have that little wink-wink-nudge-nudge to us film nuts. Regular audiences aren't going to pick the stuff out, but we love it. I find PDL to be like that.... I have yet to hear any non-film buff say they liked it. But we all get a kick out of it. As budgets climb higher, and studio films have sterner expectations, you see this counter-culture film genre jump up; those goofy films that only cinephiles love. I'd be happy to make those kind of movies my whole career. In fact, I try to put lots of homages and references in all the stuff I write -- it's just plain fun.

Film only loved by snobs: Alphaville. I certainly love it.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: cowboykurtis on April 22, 2003, 11:03:15 AM
Quote from: cecil b. dementedthat was very.... sneaky of you.

i understand what youre saying, but im surprised at your magnolia comment (who are those people you speak of? where have they been when the film wasnt doing too good at the b.o.?)... though im only saying its over-indulgent and maybe a little pretentious (if that), but it is also a drama and therefore can certainly appeal to other people. i think strictly experimental or abstract films are more the type to be liked only by a certain clique of film snobs. and besides, if we continue to use the horror genre example, not every horror fan will like every horror film, and im sure that certain horror-haters will be dragged to see certain horror films and will end up liking them.

i agree about the masturbation part, but why no spark of inventive truth?

im speaking from the way i work -- the way i like to write is: i just tell the story id like to tell, i dont want to prove THIS POINT, or please THIS DEMOGRAPHIC of film goers -- i just hope that, if tell the story that i love with enthusiasm and energy, others will feel the same way about it. to answer you question about "where were the people when magnolia was in teh box office": i feel the issue there was: the film wasnt advertised very agressively by the studio -- i dont think people had the expousre to it  wehn it was in the theater -- they werent searching it out, as some of us did. it seems a couple years later the word of mouth has gotten very large -- and many people have rented -- i know at least 20 people who arent "film experts" that love it -- my parents being 2 of them. i just think its important to tell the story you want to tell and not worry about whos going to like it. however i do think it would be very rewarding if your film became embraced by "film lovers". i just feel that "film snobs" usually dont have an opinion of thier own -- they are self concious to the point that they regergitate opinions and statements from other "film snobs" in an attempt to upkeep that elitist frame of mind. i love people who love movies for their strengths and weaknesses -- thats my philosophy about the topic.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Gold Trumpet on April 22, 2003, 11:05:41 AM
Actually, to discredit the point that only film snobs like Punch-Drunk Love, I have a friend who went with me to see Punch-Drunk Love because Adam Sandler was her favorite actor and The Wedding Singer her favorite movie. She absolutely loved Punch-Drunk Love and it wasn't blind love, she payed attention to every part of the movie, laughed at the right moments and was able to intelligently give an opinion to her thoughts on the film afterwords. The word "arthouse" did not even enter her mind as limiting the movie to something she may not like, but she entered the viewing open minded and still liked it.

Actually, I consider myself an extreme of film snobbish/cockiness or whatever they call it these days, though I take with heart that Budgie doesn't believe I am a film snob, but thing is, I really didn't like Alphaville that much at all.

~rougerum
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: MacGuffin on April 22, 2003, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetActually, to discredit the point that only film snobs like Punch-Drunk Love, I have a friend who went with me to see Punch-Drunk Love because Adam Sandler was her favorite actor and The Wedding Singer her favorite movie. She absolutely loved Punch-Drunk Love and it wasn't blind love, she payed attention to every part of the movie, laughed at the right moments and was able to intelligently give an opinion to her thoughts on the film afterwords. The word "arthouse" did not even enter her mind as limiting the movie to something she may not like, but she entered the viewing open minded and still liked it.

You make her sound like a test case: Patient responded with a considerable amount of chuckles when presented with a laughter inducing scene and was able to talk with intelligence afterwards.

I don't understand. I loved "Wedding Singer", so does that not make me a film snob?

Quote from: The Gold TrumpetActually, I consider myself an extreme of film snobbish/cockiness or whatever they call it these days, though I take with heart that Budgie doesn't believe I am a film snob, but thing is, I really didn't like Alphaville that much at all.

So I guess this proves I'm not a 'film snob' since I only like a few French New Wave films.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: SoNowThen on April 22, 2003, 11:48:55 AM
Fair enough. I didn't word things very well. I suppose it's impossible to try and classify anyone into ONE specific group. What I wanted to stress is that I like when I pick out an in-joke that's only for a film snob. Kinda like when I watch South Park and I'm the only one laughing 'cause nobody else has seen the movie they happen to be making fun of.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: SoNowThen on April 22, 2003, 11:51:00 AM
As an after-thought:

I hated Alphaville the first time I saw it. Then, two months later, watched it again and loved it. Some eccentric directors are much better when you get accustomed to their style.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Gold Trumpet on April 22, 2003, 01:18:34 PM
First off Mac, your impressions of me having look like test study are nothing of her doing but my attempts to be swift and cleaner in my writing. Though I throw away a lot of people's advice on things, I always try my best to improve. And identification of film snob? Who really fucking knows. SoNowThen gave that identity to liking Alphaville. My only reason of responding was debunk that theory by saying I am an egotistical asshole who didn't like it.

And finally, my reasons for not liking Alphaville are not for uncomfortability in the world of Godard. Alphaville is a remake of bad fiction into a film that completely identifies it is handling such. I just don't believe Godard brings Alphaville out of its run of bad science fiction into something that is really interesting and outside of massive detailings on a world that simply differs in freedom vs. control of thought. Band of Outsiders, on the other hand, displays a magnificent freedom in recreating the bad pulp gangster novel by adding a realism in sorts to the sloppiness of these characters in such a way that is completely reminding of silent filmmaking in where you be completely transfixed by the actions of these three characters. The voice overs, though for representation of the pulp novel, intrudes on this magic. The magic is then put over the edge where the film shows its freedom in the dance sequence and silence for one minute. Where Band of Outsiders feels like something new and original coming from dry material, Alphaville feels like it is running down the rules of bad science fiction without ever making itself felt to be completely original in a good way. Maybe the fact that the movie has to speak so much on this society in such a repitive way of ideas that the movie can't help but lose all steam in showing something interesting.

~rougerum
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: SoNowThen on April 22, 2003, 01:56:15 PM
I didn't mean to suggest that YOU were uncomfortable with Godard, I was just giving my example. You know how sometimes you can hate a movie, then see it a year later, and it all clicks for you? That's what I meant.

But for the record, I LOVE the voice-over in Band of Outsiders.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Gold Trumpet on April 22, 2003, 01:59:23 PM
I would have liked the voice over too if it would have been interested in saying details that were not really that relevant to the story, but a lot of them did give answers to what the characters were feeling when it was completely against the point of the entire flow of the movie in it being like silent cinema, where you were following the actions and not completely sure how to identify the characters at time but still drawn to them in an interesting way.

~rougerum
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: SoNowThen on April 22, 2003, 02:18:07 PM
Godard's always pushing the limits of VO narration, like all his other techniques, and I particularily enjoy this in Band. One of my absolute favorite moments is when Odile has to cut class at the start, and she walks in to give her excuse, then in VO Godard just sort of gives a hasty excuse and rushes us off into the next scene without showing exactly how/what Odile said. I had a huge smile on my face because it was the director basically saying "I don't really have a scene here, so why don't we just get to something more important with my characters". That's classic narrative disruption. As a writer, I can appreciate that. It's the same as in Down By Law, where we don't see HOW the guys escape from prison. Just get on with the story, forget about explaining, just show the results. I just think it's cool.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Duck Sauce on April 22, 2003, 03:21:27 PM
Quote from: SoNowThenAs an after-thought:

I hated Alphaville the first time I saw it. Then, two months later, watched it again and loved it. Some eccentric directors are much better when you get accustomed to their style.

I watched it last week and was kind of bored by it. I thought the voice of Alpha 60 (or whatever the computers name was) was really cool and scary at first but coasted into annoying by the end. I wouldnt say I hated it, but its my least favorite Godard so far.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Cecil on April 22, 2003, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtisim speaking from the way i work -- the way i like to write is: i just tell the story id like to tell, i dont want to prove THIS POINT, or please THIS DEMOGRAPHIC of film goers -- i just hope that, if tell the story that i love with enthusiasm and energy, others will feel the same way about it.

thats good, but everyone has a different way of making a film or writing one. i dont begin with a point to prove either, but somewhere down the line, i realize that what ive written does have a statement. i also dont purposefully make the film all artsy just because thats the crowd im after. i just make it the way i want to make it, the way i would like to make the film, but in the end since im trying to please myself then im also technically trying to please the other people with the same taste in film that i have. so in the end, i AM writing for an "audience", which im a part of.
Title: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: ©brad on April 23, 2003, 04:20:35 AM
i need a nap after reading all these threads. pretty much everything that can be said about this topic has been. All I know is that last semester I had the same teacher for both contemporary film criticism and american ethnic cinema. she was really an incredible teacher, so good that i developed a crush on her. she's tall and german.anyway, she could talk about anything, from Yasujiro Ozu to Jackass. that's the kind of film buff I wanna hang around with/marry, not ppl who only watch italian neo-realism or that new wave stuff.
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Reel on September 17, 2011, 10:56:14 AM
Annoying people that don't watch movies...

I have friends who are like that. They will watch a stupid movie 700 times, so I can't say that they don't watch movies at all, but I don't think they really digest them or else they would know they're crap. I can usually watch a movie one time and I'm good. If it's great, then I'll remember it and maybe buy it later and if it isn't I'll erase it from my memory and just be glad I got it over with. Holy shit, it's like that process doesn't even exist in these guys heads. They watch movies like a 3 year old. Their brains are like goldfish's. How funny can a gag be the 13th time you see it? The only conclusion I can come to is that they're not good at paying attention and need something on a constant loop to be commited to memory. So I don't think they really watch movies because if they did, they'd know there are better things to do than watch "Just go with it" again.

Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: O. on September 17, 2011, 01:48:40 PM
It's less about entertainment or hilarity and more about comfort. Like your favorite pastry when you're feeling not-quite-yourself.

I mean, I watch There Will Be Blood probably every other month!!!
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Stefen on September 17, 2011, 02:40:42 PM
Quote from: O on September 17, 2011, 01:48:40 PMI mean, I watch There Will Be Blood probably every other month!!!

It's like your period.
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Pozer on September 17, 2011, 03:31:01 PM
Quote from: S.R. on September 17, 2011, 02:40:42 PM
Quote from: O on September 17, 2011, 01:48:40 PMI mean, I watch There Will Be Blood probably every other month!!!

It's like your period.

fitting title for it.
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Alexandro on September 17, 2011, 03:51:56 PM
 :laughing:
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Reel on September 17, 2011, 06:33:32 PM
haha, yeah who am I to bash them for rewatching an Adam Sandler movie where he falls in love in Hawaii when my PDL Dvd holds the record for most viewed in my house? But even if I suggested we watch PDL instead because it's a much better movie, my friend would go " naaah I saw that. It was all dramatic and stuff. The romantic parts actually were romantic, made me feel icky. " It's all about the 'new' with these guys." If somebody paid money to make this, it must be good. By golly, I'm gonna watch it." Fuck that.
Title: Re: annoying people that don't watch movies
Post by: Orgin on October 04, 2011, 08:24:25 AM
Well.. it's really depends on the movies or pretty much anything in regards of forms of entertainment. For example, many people think video games are not works of art, I would disagree with these people. Or many people think, like myself think that a large famous drawing of Campbell's Soup Cans is not art.  So really... If you think  a particular movie you are watching is Art, than it's Art and who cares what other people think.