movies assholes dig

[ono]

Eisenstein at its best.  

[socketlevel]

Eisenstein at its best.  

i feel the love.

and that's vertov...  just kidding.

-sl-

[RegularKarate]

I'm sure he was just referencing the juxtaposition, not your avatar.

[Slimepuppy]

American History X.

Too many people here (in Finland) seem to ignore the latter half of the film and just idolize the white supremacy-aspect of the film. Scary stuff.
Got to see a guy ask my tattooist to get a big swastika done on his chest, unsurprisingly, exactly where Edward Norton's character had his...
That fit the definition of "asshole" about right?

It's a shame, 'cause I quite like the movie.

Also Spiderman. Especially the second one.
If only I could kill every person who has said that it's "the best comic movie ever, because, like, y'know, it's deep, 'cause he's, like, Peter Parker AND Spiderman, and, like, y'know, he has real problems."

[matt35mm]

American History X.

Too many people here (in Finland) seem to ignore the latter half of the film and just idolize the white supremacy-aspect of the film. Scary stuff.
Got to see a guy ask my tattooist to get a big swastika done on his chest, unsurprisingly, exactly where Edward Norton's character had his...
That fit the definition of "asshole" about right?

I agree.

Also Spiderman. Especially the second one.
If only I could kill every person who has said that it's "the best comic movie ever, because, like, y'know, it's deep, 'cause he's, like, Peter Parker AND Spiderman, and, like, y'know, he has real problems."

I very much disagree.  Whether or not you liked it, it doesn't have that "assholes like it" quality.  Thinking it's cool to get a swastika on your chest because of a movie is assholeish, but loving a movie for its focus on emotions, responsibility, and the person behind the silly costume is not assholeish at all, I argue.  I can understand rolling your eyes at someone who would call it "deep," but I don't think that makes them an asshole.

If anything, it's the "lay people" who thought the movie was "okay," and really the lovers of cinema (movie critics, people on this forum) that have been praising the movie as a huge step forward in the realm of superhero movies.

[Slimepuppy]

Ghost World was a huge step forward in the realm of comic book movies.
X-men (2) was a huge step forward in the realm of superhero movies.

Spiderman 2 was a massive step backwards.
Great actors and nice setpieces let down by substandard writing. The whole movie reeks of "eh, it's only a comic book movie"ism. Coincidences, deus ex machina, poor character motivations, the works. At no point did the film makers take the story seriously. If they don't care, why should I?
It was bigger and louder than the first film, and I can appreciate most people loving that, but I cringed through the entire movie watching good actors deliver inane lines in a paper-thin excuse for a plot.

Maybe asshole is too strong a word. Deluded? My problem is with the fact that people think it's deep when in fact it is anyting but.
It's like trying to learn the deeper meaning of Baudrillard by watching the Matrix film.

And to think, all the problems in that film could have been fixed with a pen and some paper...

[matt35mm]

Ghost World was a huge step forward in the realm of comic book movies.
X-men (2) was a huge step forward in the realm of superhero movies.

Spiderman 2 was a massive step backwards.
Great actors and nice setpieces let down by substandard writing. The whole movie reeks of "eh, it's only a comic book movie"ism. Coincidences, deus ex machina, poor character motivations, the works. At no point did the film makers take the story seriously. If they don't care, why should I?
It was bigger and louder than the first film, and I can appreciate most people loving that, but I cringed through the entire movie watching good actors deliver inane lines in a paper-thin excuse for a plot.

Ghost World was great, but I would say that American Splendor was a greater step forward for comic book movies.  Ghost World was a great comic book, but the adaptation from book to screen was fairly straightforward (but yes, awesome), whereas American Splendor was truly a "comic book movie."  Additionally, I never confused superhero movies and other comic book movies, so I don't really know how Ghost World got into this discussion.

Even if you didn't think Spider-Man 2 was that great, I think you're in the minority among cinephiles if you really think it was as terrible as that, so saying that one must be "deluded" to like it is kinda off.  There are a lot of valid criticisms that can be made about this movie, but of all the things to argue, I think saying that the filmmakers didn't care or take the story seriously is the weakest one.  Sam Raimi and Co. most definitely care more about Spider-Man (Raimi's like King Spider-Man Nerd) than, say, Bryan Singer cared about X-Men, even though I think X-Men 2 is a good movie.  Not necessarily a breakthrough or huge step forward, but it certainly was a case of a superhero movie done right.

There are many elements in Spider-Man 2 where, if you think superhero comic books are generally lame, it's just not gonna work for you.  Ultimately, though, I think the movie was very faithful to the original material--so the question is whether or not you're a fan of the Spider-Man comics.  If not, then it becomes moot to criticize the film adaptation.  I agree with you that the movie isn't particularly "deep," and that the people who feel so are just simple, but the film never tries go and never should have gone deeper than the conflicted feelings that Peter Parker has about being Spider-Man.  So I agree that it isn't a "deep" movie, but to call it a massive step backwards?

Finally, I don't think Spider-Man 2 was bigger and louder than the first film.  Over half of the movie is focused on the human element, not on Spider-Man v.s. Doc Ock.  The action sequences themselves are better than in the first, but there are less of them.  I feel that Spider-Man 2 is a quieter, smaller, and more intimate movie than the first film.

I don't mind that you didn't like the movie, but I did have a problem with a few of your criticisms.  We disagree is about all that can be said.  Oh, and welcome to Xixax.  (I'm one of the friendlier members, honestly)

[Slimepuppy]

I see what you're saying, and maybe the problems lies in the source material... I just felt that while X-men was treating the subject matter with respect and a modicum of realism Spiderman 2 wasn't... At all. Again, that might hark back to the source material, which I am the first to admit I am not very familiar with.
I know I'm in the minority with my abject dislike of the second film, mainly because of the leaps of logic it does within the plot. For me it didn't feel like having "respect for the source material" but rather a lazy short hand to get things where they needed to be to move the story along. I'm not justifying my vitriol, just attempting to explain the reasons behind it.

Maybe we'll agree to disagree?

And thanks for the welcome. Much appreciated.
I've been quite impressed with the quality and quantity of film fact and opinion to be found on the forum. There's only so much AICN and IMDB comments I can take before seeing red...

[Myxo]

Spiderman 2 is not the best superhero movie of all time. Period.

Is it a good "popcorn 7 o'clock on a Friday night" movie? Sure.

It's even better if you read the comic books and know Peter Parker & Spiderman's story. There are lots of one-liners that only a fan would get.

[SiliasRuby]

I thought this was really funny and belonged in this thread...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/1SS0RAIDCVIX9/ref=cm_bg_lm/102-1892874-8024135

[Stefen]

Classic thread.  8)

[Pubrick]

I thought this was really funny and belonged in this thread...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/1SS0RAIDCVIX9/ref=cm_bg_lm/102-1892874-8024135

that was really good, but he shot himself in the foot by pretending Kill Bill was for smart ppl.

the best: "You don't have the intellect to understand this movie or what the title means." i think i've said that before.

[Ravi]

Why isn't this guy on Xixax yet?  Is this guy on Xixax yet?

[SiliasRuby]

I'm not sure if he is or he isn't on here, but he'd be interesting poster

[pete]

citizen kane.