The Prestige

[Gamblour.]

This film is very interesting to me because it seems to be a return to his Following roots, a film that's hard to connect with because of it's collapsed timeline. The film plays with the idea of revisiting images, much like Following, but in a movie about tricks, that's not so smart because the audience will remember and figure things out too soon. I felt like you never like either Jackman or Bale, despite the turn that happens. The most interesting thing about the film to me was understanding Nolan's concept for the script, that each of the three acts are the Pledge, the Turn, and the Prestige. It made it a little too cerebral knowing that and trying to understand it. I didn't fully engage the movie as a result, but I still found much of it enjoyable. Bale impressed me more than Jackman, who still has a bit too much stage in him. Has me this worried about the Fountain. But I know he will show up for that one.

[Pozer]

SPOILERS

I liked it.  I was able to figure out a couple of things early on but it didn't ruin the film for me.  It's a movie about magicians.  Of course there's going to be a twist. 

But there's one thing that is keeping me from enjoying this completely:

Was the other Bale a Tesla machine double or just his twin brother?  Because if they were twins, then that makes it WAY TOO convenient that he sends Hugh Jackman on a wild goose chase with the whole "Tesla is the key to my process" thing and Tesla happens to have invented a machine that does EXACTLY what Hugh Jackman needs to replicate the Transported Man trick.  I was thinking that the other Bale was a Tesla double, which would have made it a little bit easier to buy that Jackman found that machine.

But other than that, I really liked it.  It's not the masterpiece I was hoping for, and by all rights, had no real reason to expect, but it was a good time. 

I thought it was all of Tesla's doing...

spoilers as well:
had to have been a twin.  or at least in no way the same machine as cutter's cause when he is duplicated, he is the exact same person with same emotions and such right?  borden and his twin had different feelings toward the gals.
stupid concept either way.

[polkablues]

SPOILERS

I liked it.  I was able to figure out a couple of things early on but it didn't ruin the film for me.  It's a movie about magicians.  Of course there's going to be a twist. 

But there's one thing that is keeping me from enjoying this completely:

Was the other Bale a Tesla machine double or just his twin brother?  Because if they were twins, then that makes it WAY TOO convenient that he sends Hugh Jackman on a wild goose chase with the whole "Tesla is the key to my process" thing and Tesla happens to have invented a machine that does EXACTLY what Hugh Jackman needs to replicate the Transported Man trick.  I was thinking that the other Bale was a Tesla double, which would have made it a little bit easier to buy that Jackman found that machine.

But other than that, I really liked it.  It's not the masterpiece I was hoping for, and by all rights, had no real reason to expect, but it was a good time. 

I thought it was all of Tesla's doing...

spoilers as well:
had to have been a twin.  or at least in no way the same machine as cutter's cause when he is duplicated, he is the exact same person with same emotions and such right?  borden and his twin had different feelings toward the gals.
stupid concept either way.

Yet more spoilers:

Besides, if he was a Tesla double, he would have to have been made some time after Borden's fingers got shot off (for one thing, he couldn't have afforded Tesla at that point), so the double would have come into existence with the missing fingers, and therefore wouldn't have needed to chop 'em off to match.

[last days of gerry the elephant]

Spoilers:

If there was only one at first, it would be easier to think Bale genuinely forgot which knot he tied onto Jackman's wife and thus after that drama took place, he left to Tesla and didn't necessarily have to afford being cloned, it might have been something that happened as Tesla was demonstrating the machine for him. Could be the guy's best friend or something, who knows.
I don't see why Bale would claim that he forgot which knot he tied. If he was switched with his brother at the time, he could have found out by asking his brother, unless of course he just lies and says he forgot because of guilt.

(For some reason I believed he really didn't know, although we might have)

--

Seed Magazine, Article
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/10/real_magic.php

--

REAL MAGIC
The Prestige conjures up a dark relationship between science and the desire for power.

by Anthony Kaufman • Posted October 20, 2006 02:17 AM

Earlier this month, physicists in Copenhagen announced they had successfully teleported information through a half a meter of space to a large object. The experiment, the first to transport information from light and matter, is said to be a revolutionary step in the field of quantum teleportation. But while it's one thing to teleport atomic data, it's quite another to teleport an entire human being.

The Prestige, a new Hollywood thriller, takes up the question of teleportation as one of its central conundrums: Is it feasible? What would people leave behind after teleporting? And could you bring your hat along for the ride?

Set in turn-of-the-century London during the height of the electric age, the film—opening in theaters today—recounts the rivalry of two magicians, the aristocratic showman Robert Angier (Hugh Jackman) and his working-class, hard-knuckled foe, Alfred Borden (Christian Bale). The men meet as apprentices for the established magician Milton (real-life conjurer Ricky Jay), but their relationship turns brutally bitter after an on-stage mishap leads to tragedy.

The bulk of the film chronicles the escalating conflict between Angier and Borden, their attempts to sabotage each other's tricks and steal each other's secrets—primarily the how-to behind a marquee feat called "The Transported Man." In the stunt, first performed by Borden, a man apparently teleports from one side of the stage to the other in a split second. How does he pull it off? Does he use a body double, as Angier's sidekick Cutter (Michael Caine) maintains? Or has he enlisted the help of Nikola Tesla, the renowned engineer and early pioneer of alternating current, to devise a machine that facilitates actual teleportation? In other words: Is it simply old-fashioned sleight of hand or, as one character says, "real magic"—an advance look into the scientific "magic" of the future?

Like director Christopher Nolan's breakout film Memento, a clever mind-bender whose scenes played out in reverse chronological order, The Prestige has a complex contraption of a plot. Multiple storylines set in different time periods run side by side: In the film's past, Angier gets a hold of Borden's diary, which leads him to Colorado Springs to seek out Tesla; in its present, Borden sits in jail reading Angier's diary, trying to unlock his rival's ultimate secret. Each parallel storyline dovetails in flashbacks of events that both men shared. It's a neat trick to puzzle together a narrative this way, and neater still to stay ahead of your audience—but not so far ahead that viewers are baffled.

Is it simply old-fashioned sleight of hand or, as one character says, "real magic"—an advance look into the scientific "magic" of the future?
One of the chief pleasures of The Prestige—so named for the final part of a magic trick, when the vanished bird rematerializes or the beautiful assistant cut in half emerges again whole—is that it doesn't give an answer until very late in the game. Just when you expect Nolan has tipped his hat in one direction, he suddenly veers in another. And when the film finally offers a definitive answer, it only further complicates the layers of intrigue.

The scientific and historical accuracy of the movie are questionable—there is scant evidence to suggest that Tesla ever experimented with teleportation, for example. But those lightning-arrayed "Tesla coils"—which make a number of dazzling appearances in the movie—sure look cool.

If The Prestige were all smoke and mirrors, it might be mere cold, clever theatrics. But Angier and Borden have deep personal flaws: Each is ready to lose loved ones and sacrifice everything for his art —or if you prefer, his science. It's not the many love triangles that pop up—and are quickly discarded—that fuels The Prestige, but the relentless one-upmanship that absorbs the two protagonists.

When Nikola Tesla eventually shows up in the flesh (a brilliantly nuanced David Bowie, at once suave and subtly bizarre), he warns Angier about the dangers of his creations, forecasting that his own obsessions would eventually destroy him. (The real-life Tesla became destitute in his later years and developed a perhaps unhealthy obsession with feeding New York pigeons.)

The Prestige may touch on the dangers of science and technology, but it's mainly concerned with men who are driven to invent for the wrong reasons, either for vengeance or prestige, at the expense of family and sanity. If The Illusionist, the year's other movie magic show, was a middlebrow romantic crowd-pleaser that unveils the joy of an elaborate ruse, The Prestige paints a darker picture of the lies and destruction that accompany man's quest for technological prowess and domination

[grand theft sparrow]

MORE MAJOR SPOILERS

According to what people who have read the book said, they're twins.  Which makes it unsatisfying for me. 

But I have another question:

Which twin was hanged?  My friends and I have an argument about whether the Borden who lived at the end was the one who loved the wife/is the father of the child (my stance) or was the one who loved Scarlett Johansson (their stance).  Does anyone remember?

I don't see why Bale would claim that he forgot which knot he tied. If he was switched with his brother at the time, he could have found out by asking his brother, unless of course he just lies and says he forgot because of guilt.

Unless whichever twin it was who tied the knot did it on purpose, thus leaving the other one to cover and say "I don't remember."  Yet another thing they could have touched on in the end... or did they?

[Kal]

Yeah after so much repetition and bullshit they could have asked ONE MORE TIME after he shoots the fucker "what knowt did you tie?"... but they didnt... which is fine.

I think for sure the twin that died is the one that loved Scarlett... the other one stayed with the daughter.

[last days of gerry the elephant]

MORE MAJOR SPOILERS
But I have another question:

Which twin was hanged?  My friends and I have an argument about whether the Borden who lived at the end was the one who loved the wife/is the father of the child (my stance) or was the one who loved Scarlett Johansson (their stance).  Does anyone remember?

I believe that was mentioned in the movie, *Spoiler* when he was about to shoot Jackman, he said that his brother that loved Scarlett Johansson was the one that was in jail to be hanged and he was the one who *had* a wife, and a daughter. The one with Johansson was also the one to be found at the crime scene (they didn't switch so the real father of the little girl remained with her). Because when he was in jail, he tells his twin that he was right and he should have left Jackman to his own yadda yadda.

[grand theft sparrow]

EVEN MORE MAJOR SPOILERS

That's what I thought.  I remember him saying to Hugh, "I loved Sarah.  He loved Olivia."  But my friends, all of them but one, swear it was the other way around, one friend citing that thematically, it had to be so because Sarah hanged herself and so he was hanged as well.

[Raikus]

The movie clearly stated the Alfred that died was the one who tied the death knot and loved Olivia.

I loved this movie. All of it made sense (well, almost -- see below) and gave just enough exposition to fill in the gaps.

My only confusion is where Caine's character gets involved with the Alfreds. He ultimately delivers his daughter to him without a word, which tells me he knew there were two of them, instead of being surprised a hanged man is now taking home his child. But then why the testifying towards his guilt? He obviously didn't know about Danton's double until he met him as the Lord character and then realized he had Alfred's daughter, but with them crossing paths -- nearly brushing shoulders -- as Alfred went to kill Danton it seems too coincidental that he didn't know then too. I'm very confused by that part of it.

[edison]

SPOILERS!!!!

My only confusion is where Caine's character gets involved with the Alfreds. He ultimately delivers his daughter to him without a word, which tells me he knew there were two of them, instead of being surprised a hanged man is now taking home his child. But then why the testifying towards his guilt? He obviously didn't know about Danton's double until he met him as the Lord character and then realized he had Alfred's daughter, but with them crossing paths -- nearly brushing shoulders -- as Alfred went to kill Danton it seems too coincidental that he didn't know then too. I'm very confused by that part of it.

I believe Caine knew all along that there were twins, he practically screamed it to Danton during that one scene but Danton didn't believe him. Hence Danton's obsession with trying to figure out the transporting man trick. Now what I think was the turning point for Caine's character in going with the Alfreds was that Danton basically kidnapped Alfreds daughter (well took something from Alfred he loved much like Alfred took his wife away) and could care less. Danton was so far gone out of his mind that Caine knew he had to be stopped.

[Raikus]

SPOILERS!!!!

I believe Caine knew all along that there were twins, he practically screamed it to Danton during that one scene but Danton didn't believe him. Hence Danton's obsession with trying to figure out the transporting man trick. Now what I think was the turning point for Caine's character in going with the Alfreds was that Danton basically kidnapped Alfreds daughter (well took something from Alfred he loved much like Alfred took his wife away) and could care less. Danton was so far gone out of his mind that Caine knew he had to be stopped.

That still doesn't work for me because of Caine testifying towards the guilt of Alfred. His character was the only reason Alfred was convicted. It seems like he'd be aware that it may be the wrong one of the two before so vigorously going after him.

Also, Caine was partnered up with Danton the whole time. If he really knew about the two Alfreds he would have just flat out told Danton, not alluded to it or kept saying that the only way the trick could happen is because he's using a double -- because that's the only way HE (Caine's character) could devise pulling it off. He'd say, "Listen you daft bloke, he's got a twin brother. I know, I hired both of them ages ago. Now let's both go make some quid."

[grand theft sparrow]

My guess is Michael Caine turned on Danton/Angier once he was discovered to be Lord Whatshisname.  That doesn't explain how he knew that Alfred was twins but it explains when he said, "Fuck Danton."

This film is an anomaly.  On one hand, I really enjoyed it.  On the other hand, it has some big plot holes and one motherfucker of a suspension of disbelief for a film that should be airtight in that respect.  I was thinking about it and, if the Alfred that loved the wife still continued with the ruse even after it essentially drove his wife to suicide, then he's still a scumbag and doesn't deserve our sympathies.  Why should we care about him when his obsession to be such a great magician takes precedence over everything and everyone in his life? 

But even so, it doesn't bother me that much.  I still like the film.

[Redlum]

Why are a lot of people concerned about liking either of the central characters? They were both horrible even before the drowning where the only traits portrayed were those of a susceptibility to obsession. At the end it's simply a question of who is worse and that judgement has to be based on our assesment of any moral issues surrounding the 'real' magic of the trick. Jackman drowns all these versions of himself. What are they?

I found Tesla's invention to be the most chilling part of the film and that which has stayed with me the most. Ordinarily I'd probably balk at the silliness of the idea but the way its presented in the context of The Prestige gives the whole thing a strong authenticity. David Bowie has been getting a lot of shit about his accent but I really liked his performance and was often thinking of the look on his face (as he leaves Colorado) during the final act of the film. Not to mention the box which the invention was housed in which was to me was almost as ominous as the the ark of the covenant in Raiders.

And of course he's his twin - the symmetry is too perfect - Sarah's nephew, crying watching the disappearing bird: "Where's his brother!?"

[Bethie]

It's like David Copperfield meets Primer.

[cine]

It's like David Copperfield meets Primer.

definitely stole that joke from me too.