Thomas Edison (Short Film Available for Viewing)

[matt35mm]

Thanks GB.  Glad you liked it.

I learned a lot from making this movie, and will apply the lessons to the next.  For what it's worth, my confidence level and faith in my own abilities has been growing exponentially since the making of Edison.

The next movie might be a feature, we'll see.  I'll be collaborating with xerxes on it.  And it may be shot in or near L.A., so Atticus, I might take you up on your offer, if it's still available when I'm casting.  It'd be low-budget (perhaps around $30,000, depending on the script, of course), but hopefully enough to pay SAG minimums (under their limited exhibition prices) with a couple actors and a small (non-union) crew.  Anyway, I'm ready to make a leap in ambition.

As for the distribution of Thomas Edison, I'm waiting to see how it does at festivals.  It will be online at some point, but that depends, again, on the festivals.  The DVD, however, should be out in a few weeks (I'm working on some special features for it).

A good review and a congrats from Atticus Jones (who is a gentleman in his own... hyper-bizarre way)!  This turned out to be a pretty good birthday.

[Pozer]

Happy Birthday, Buddy!!!   

[md]

Thanks for emphasizing SOUND, which just ain't nuttin' to fuck wit'.

Speaking of which...did you do any adr on Thomas Edison?  It seems with low budget dv films, adr seems like the best way to get the most polished audio.  But it is also a huge pain...I would be afraid it would come out cheesy.  Any thoughts Matt?  Mic recommendations? md

[matt35mm]

Thanks for emphasizing SOUND, which just ain't nuttin' to fuck wit'.

Speaking of which...did you do any adr on Thomas Edison?  It seems with low budget dv films, adr seems like the best way to get the most polished audio.  But it is also a huge pain...I would be afraid it would come out cheesy.  Any thoughts Matt?  Mic recommendations? md

ADR should be reserved for the very few lines that you couldn't quite get on set, either because of sound problems, or you didn't like the performance of the line, or you just forgot to record that line on set that day.  This is what I did with Edison, which has, I think, 2 ADR lines, each of which are very short.  Try to loop (another word for ADR) dialogue that's being said off screen or in wideshot, rather than in a close-up, so that you never see anything out of sync.

It is not a good idea to ADR a whole movie, because, as you said, it would be cheesy.  I've seen short films do that, and it's always awful.

The best way to get sound for any production (including low budget DV) is to get a decent boom mic.  Different people record a little differently, and my preference is to record just about everything with the shotgun boom mic.  I then record background noise with an omni-directional, shorter microphone.  You could get these mics for around $100.  Of course, you get what you pay for, but a $100 shotgun mic is FAR superior to on camera sound or ADR.  Then make some sort of makeshift mic boom (I use two golf club shafts, which works really well, as they're light and sturdy).  I used a $750 shotgun mic for Edison, which I found to be a great improvement over the $200 mic I shot Poof! with.

I say sound ain't nuttin' to fuck wit' because people are very attentive to what they're hearing.  With the picture, you could mess around with it or even call bad camerawork a "style."  But if people hear sound, and it doesn't sound like what they hear in real life (there is sound design, which plays around with sound a little, but usually leaves dialogue alone!), especially with dialogue, they cease to buy into the movie.  Very few people can take a movie with poor sound seriously, whereas many people can take crap camerawork well enough.  It's been a while since I've seen Blair Witch, but I believe if that movie had terrible sound, no one would sit through it.  My guess is it originally had poor sound, but the distributor (Artisan) cleaned it up after they acquired it, before putting it in theaters.

So basically, if you had, say $1500 to spend on equipment, don't buy a $1500 camera.  Buy a $1000 camera, a $300 shotgun mic, and spend the rest on other equipment (you will generally need additional equipment and cables to hook the mic up to either the camera or a separate sound recorder), or as contingency (or you can pay the actors and crew, which is what I'd do).  Most people think image is everything and splurge on expensive cameras without giving a thought to sound.  They're wasting their money.  Buy a mic.  And do some research on sound recording techniques.

Try to record the best audio you can on set, and minimize use of ADR.  SOME ADR is fine (inevitable, even), which is why major films also have ADR and sound great.  Just be careful with everything.  Sound is a delicate thing, which is another reason not to fuck wit' it.

Good luck with your movie.

[ono]

What mics did you buy?  Got a link?  Ever used wireless lapel mics?  Recommendations for those?  I'm in agreeance about the whole shotgun mic thing, but there are some shots you'd just need to use other mics for, like a wireless, so that's why I'm asking.

[matt35mm]

I have a Sennheiser K6 with ME 67 (long shotgun) and ME 629 (short omni) capsules.  I think that totalled somewhere around $750 when I bought it (I think it's around $250 for each of the 3 pieces).  I also had to buy a $150 XLR attachment to the GL-2 to be able to plug them in.  But it all works very well.

I have used a wireless lav once.  The sound was fine enough, but I still haven't figured out how to not have any rustling noise short of not having the actors move at all.  I don't own any wireless mics, though.  I'm sure I'll have to use them someday... but at this point, I just try to creatively figure out how to record the sound with what I have.

[JG]

What mics did you buy?  Got a link?  Ever used wireless lapel mics?  Recommendations for those?  I'm in agreeance about the whole shotgun mic thing, but there are some shots you'd just need to use other mics for, like a wireless, so that's why I'm asking.

what time of shots can you think of when you need a wireless?  I try and use a shotgun for anything, cause it's the only thing i really have access too.  It works pretty good but it can be a problem.  JUst the other week we were shooting a scene where we trucked with the two characters down a hallway in one continuous shot but it was impossible to mic.  I can't effectiveli use a boom because the shotgun always makes noises.  i might have try to the golf club thing cause the way i'm doing it right now, I just have to have the shotgun in a stationary position.  it's a problem.

  we're gonna have to reshoot the scene now cauase the audio sucks.  i tried a take with just the camera mic and  most people wouldn't even notice, but i do.   i hate that little hiss.   if audio wasn't an issue in my movies then everything would be so much better.   i have every camera angle and the way the actors should be saying their lines in my mind, but its so hard to figure out the other stuff.  audio and a consistent lighting/white balance (i might need to start a thread for this discussion) are the two downfalls of my movies.  the downfall of most amateur movies. 

if everything goes well shooting a scene,  i will have audio of the dialogue and then some sounds of just the room.  i use a stationary shotgun mic for both.  but it makes it almost impossible to do a shot where the camera is movign.   damn, i hate having to worry about audio. 

i dunno i'm blabbering.   

[md]

the downfall of most amateur movies. 

id generally say, story, structure, script and acting.  Its easy to make dv look nice (ha), its hard to write a good script. 

When watching Dazed and Confused, I could have sworn a majority of that was adr, although it could just be me.  Thanks for the advice guys....i have my hands on a pd170 and a nice shotgun mic from the place I work...I just need to finish the script.   

[JG]

well yeah i would agree.  for me though, i'm pretty confident in my abiltiies as a storyteller.  even though i don't show it on these boards, i'm a pretty good writer.  especially for my age.  i've seen enough movies to get a feel for structure and pacing, an aspect i think a lot of young people don't really focus.  in terms of how i want thinings to look, i know exactly what i want.  i just don't know enough about cinemtography.  my white balance is always inconsistent.  i'm not good enough with final cut pro to manipulate footage so that there is a consistency.   i can do audio, it's just a pain in the ass.  i really need an assistant.  i wish i could just write and storyboard the movie.  the rest of the stuff can be a pain. 

[Pozer]

i just don't know enough about cinemtography.  

Or even how to spell it.  Good thing you're a good writer though.

[JG]

i just don't know enough about cinemtography.  

Or even how to spell it.  Good thing you're a good writer though.

be fair i wrote that quickly i know how to spell it.  if you want to get technical, you're not very good at quoting things.     

[killafilm]

People use Lavs for all kinds of shots.  Long, super wide, characters running, characters in the middle of a crowd, multiple characters in a scene (ala most Altman movies) and ect...  Pretty much whenever you can't use a Shotgun or when you're trying to capture individual tracks.

You can find boom poles for pretty cheap.  That would elminate any rustling of the mic itself.  I just looked very quickly over at B&H Photo and they had plenty for sub $150.  Then in post you have programs like Sound Soap to help out.  The main problem I've encountered while filmming projects with friends is that we're always wearing too many hats and people over look simple stuff.  Like the Mic/Line switch.  Good mic placement is also key.

[md]

I didnt mean you personally Jimmy....but if the writing is good, then hire a cinematographer/dp and a skilled editor.  How old are you btw.

[Pubrick]

I didnt mean you personally Jimmy.... How old are you btw.

oh god don't get him started..

http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=7959.msg197065#msg197065
http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=545.msg207610#msg207610

[md]

SPOILERS
Sixteen--the age where your old enough to start having your own opinions but not yet old enough to form them. 

You answered it for me.You remind me of ebeaman....whatever happend to him.  sorry in advance for the thread hijack