Author Topic: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!  (Read 42395 times)

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Drenk

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #195 on: December 16, 2017, 11:59:06 AM »
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I don't agree. If you really dislike IV, I don't see why you would enjoy the book.
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WorldForgot

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #196 on: December 16, 2017, 12:46:27 PM »
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I don't agree. If you really dislike IV, I don't see why you would enjoy the book.

^^ Pretty much. Insofar as PTA's film is a successful adaptation, the book may have more "scenes" and anecdotes to the characters, but the feeling of elusiveness + Californian anxieties is the same.

csage97

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #197 on: December 16, 2017, 01:19:53 PM »
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I don't agree. If you really dislike IV, I don't see why you would enjoy the book.
^^ Pretty much. Insofar as PTA's film is a successful adaptation, the book may have more "scenes" and anecdotes to the characters, but the feeling of elusiveness + Californian anxieties is the same.

I have to disagree with you here. The book is a different experience (though similar in lots of ways, of course), as it often is when compared to a film adaptation. It's cartoonish in a different way and more lyrical. Despite making Sortilege the narrator in the movie, the book really gives you the experience of Pynchon's prose and idiosyncratic description, which is something in itself. There are way more driving scenes and general talk about the LA landscape in the book. (I was disappointed in the lack of establishing shots and general terrain/LA cityscape shots with the film.) There's a sort of vastness to the literal space of the book, insofar as LA is a large and diverse city, which is missing from the movie. The movie feels more claustrophobic; the book feels vast and open and at times claustrophobic. I was actually really surprised at the lack of camera movement in the film; it seemed like PTA was the perfect director to use this as a way to mirror Pynchon's sprawling prose, and I feel like an opportunity was lost there.

I think PTA was faithful to the book and did a really good job, BUT the center of the film is put more on the relationship between Shasta and Doc. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but Shasta is just one thematic and plot point in the book. The concept of inherent vice is explored through more avenues in the book and equal weight is given to the end of the sixties/the end of Doc's fabled time and place as is given to Shasta. (Shasta seems to stand in as more of a plot driver and metaphor in the novel. I could get into the thematics further and write a whole article on it, but I'm going to stop there to save time and space.)

Anyway, my point isn't to try to shoot you guys down or give you less credit. I'm happy to discuss these things here and it's all enjoyable. I'm going to have to say that the novel is more sprawling and funnier (yes, there were funny moments in the film, but you just can't totally capture the syntactic and subtle humour of Pynchon via film: the silly puns, and endless movie and pop culture references). There's a level of literary depth to the novel and to Pynchon that just can't be accessed via film. This is NOT a knock on PTA, but just a limit of the medium. Pynchon's signature layers of references to pop culture, music, movies, history, politics, science, sociopolitical geography, and just about anything under the sun just can't be included in the movie, and if you're into this mode of layers, the book as a medium is unparalleled. I will also just reiterate that Pynchon's unique voice is something for me on its own, as is PTA's unique voice, and I enjoy the book on the level alone, as I likewise enjoy the film on that level alone. They are similar but two different things in many ways and on many levels.

Mogambo

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #198 on: December 29, 2017, 09:52:40 AM »
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csage97

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #199 on: January 07, 2018, 06:53:00 PM »
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Don't know if this has been posted around these parts yet, but here's some very cool behind-the-scenes footage from the IV shoot, filmed by Laura Colella on Super 8 with additional narration and music from Theo Green and The Growlers, respectively. https://vimeo.com/130899960 Theo Green is reading from IV, the book.

As a Pynchon and PTA enthusiast, this short piece is heaven. The sense of space, sunshine, and people all around is actually what I had envisioned the film would be more like. Plus, it includes more prose from Pynchon.

One thing this piece nails is the music. Not that Jonny Greenwood's score for the film was bad by any stretch, but what it lacked was straight up surf rock, which is ALL OVER the book, so much that it's really like another character. Not only that, but it obviously invokes surfing and the beach, which are also all over the book (there are plenty of characters who are surfers in the book -- Flaco the Bad, anyone?). In the end, I suppose using a lot of surf rock in the film would've maybe made things a bit too light-feeling, and the choice of music helped to induce the sense of paranoia and dark tinge that came with the exact time of the setting, a time when the Manson murders were sending shocks through Doc's community, as well as Doc's sense that something is not right in the ideal world he wants to hold onto and the way the world operates in general.

Mogambo

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #200 on: February 02, 2018, 05:03:36 AM »
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wilder

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #201 on: February 02, 2018, 05:19:00 AM »
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That was good.

csage97

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #202 on: February 02, 2018, 10:39:36 AM »
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Great read:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/02/inherent-vice-review-counterculture/

VERY good read! This article effectively summarizes what the book and film are about and how the plot points relate to that. These paragraphs in particular are wonderful at summing things up:

"The movie’s immediacy also stems from its exploration of the moment we could begin to detect the emergence of the neoliberal forces that would ultimately generate the 2008 crisis: privatization, deregulation, real estate speculation, and development booms. It is no accident that Thomas Pynchon’s Inherent Vice was published in 2009. And as both the film and book suggest, the hippie ideal contained within itself the very seeds — the “inherent vice” — that would turn it into a nightmare.

The film operates within the genre conventions of film noir, complete with shadows, fog, dark alleys, a femme fatale of sorts, and a nearly impenetrably complex plot: Doc Sportello, a pot-smoking hippie private eye, is visited by his ex-girlfriend, Shasta Faye Hepworth, who has since taken up with Mickey Wolfmann, a big-time real estate developer. Shasta claims that Mickey’s wife, Sloan, and her own beau — ostensibly her “spiritual advisor” — have plans to take care of Mickey and make off with his money, before herself promptly disappearing. Later, Doc is hired by Hope Harlingen, an ex-junkie with fake teeth, to find out what happened to her husband — Coy, a heroin-addicted Communist turned COINTELPRO informant.

It turns out the two cases are related via the “Golden Fang,” a vast corporation and heroin smuggling ring that on the surface appears to be a tax shelter set up by a cartel of dentists. The Fang also owns a newly privatized mental health facility, where orderlies dressed as Jesus run around with Uzis, and where the “insane” are “cured”: that is, mentally reprogrammed to be dutiful, docile, and obedient citizens."


Although it may seem like the movie is about Doc and Shasta's relationship that's slipped away, that's really just the most immediate and personal way to Doc that privatization, real estate, and deregulation have co-opted the world, and what it's really all about is exactly what the article says: "Exploration of the moment we could begin to detect the emergence of the neoliberal forces that would ultimately generate the 2008 crisis: privatization, deregulation, real estate speculation, and development booms. It is no accident that Thomas Pynchon’s Inherent Vice was published in 2009. And as both the film and book suggest, the hippie ideal contained within itself the very seeds — the “inherent vice” — that would turn it into a nightmare."

Mogambo

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #203 on: February 08, 2018, 12:00:06 PM »
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https://vimeo.com/130899960

This is pretty cool. Don't know if this has been posted here before.

Mogambo

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #204 on: February 08, 2018, 12:26:13 PM »
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HACKANUT

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #205 on: February 20, 2018, 12:48:47 PM »
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found this... purdy gud.

 

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