What's More Important to You on a DVD?

Started by modage, March 27, 2004, 03:18:24 PM

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MacGuffin

Quote from: themodernage02after reading what you said about the Dracula transfer, i'm a little worried.  i was under the impression they had done a new transfer, but that may not be the case.

I think the reason why the Superbit Lawrence DVD looks so good, and is given such praise, is because it was given a new transfer. Otherwise, they're the same print.

http://www.dvdfile.com/software/review/dvd-video_7/lawrenceofarabia_sb.html
"Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art." - Andy Warhol


Skeleton FilmWorks

NEON MERCURY

..i got to go w/ extras baby....

i personaly believe that the rerason why dvd's are the film geek crack is b/c of the extras...i'll take a loaded spider-man LOA over a bare bones superbit anyday....and i don't care aboutr being ripped off either (21 grams).....and
another example would be panic room....if both the superbit and the three disk werer avialble at release..i couldn't think of anyone who would pick the superbit one..(unlessyour low on cash,...but if money wasn't an issue).....

you could use this example for any film....no matter if its a pocorn film or an arthouse flick...anyone would take extras over a superbit IMO...
just use th epanic room and subsitute any film as this.

dvds werr made for this reason of extras and the studiios etc. know this ..hence all of the double dipping and re-re-re-re-re-re-r-r-e---er--re-re-r-eRELEASEs of one film over and over

-my 2 sense

cine

Quote from: NEON MERCURYi personaly believe that the rerason why dvd's are the film geek crack is b/c of the extras...
I think I disagree with you. Let's use Criterion for example. They release films with stunning restorations that ultimately sell their products. They have tons of extras but it's the new prints that are found and how the films are restored that get people creaming their pants (recent example: The Rules of the Games and myself).

SoNowThen

Even though I have a shit tv and sound system, I'll take the transfer any day over the extras. Plus, with a busy work/trying to do indie films schedule, who has time to watch extras anyway? I have a list of 30 odd commentaries I've wanted to get to...

I'll put an exception for the really amazing extras though, like the docs on La Strada or Straw Dogs. Those can be almost as good as the movies.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Henry Hill

Quote from: themodernage02recently when i bought Lawrence Of Arabia, i got the superbit instead of the 2 disc with extras.  i read a review of the disc at digital bits in their year end best of list and they convinced me the transfer was SO MUCH better it was astounding.  so i ditched my plans for the other disc and got the superbit.

with a dvd like Lawrence of Arabia it is such a classic film, obviously you want the best picture quality possible. certainly this should go for every film, but one as classic as this with such beautiful photography especially. i had already bought the two-disc before the superbit came out. in this particular case i am going to go ahead and get the superbit for the picture. the extras on the dvd are so great i cant go without the former. so i would say if you really, really, need both...buy both. this is the only dvd in superbit that is out that i will do this for. good topic by the way.

Ravi

The most important thing is the video and audio quality.  Extras are great but not necessary.  However, if it is a bare bones disc from a major studio, it had better not be too expensive, since people may choose to buy a different disc with many extras if the price is similar.

Lawrence of Arabia is a special case since Columbia screwed up the first transfer.  The Superbit version largely corrected those problems, and that is the only version I own.  I didn't buy the SE since I read that it was problematic, and I would rather do without a movie than to see a mediocre version, unless it is extremely rare.  If I want to see the extras I can check the SE out from the library.

Find Your Magali

Quote from: Weak2ndActBut here's a thought that makes me sound like some old man:
With all the whining about 21 Grams, Matrix-rereleases and other stuff, I thought back to the old days before DVD took off.  When a movie came to the video, 85% of the time it was rental priced ($90ish), so your only options were renting it multiple times or waiting for a used copy.  Or waiting 6 more months for the sell-through release.  But now, 4 months after theatrical release, the dvd is out for 20 bucks and all the waiting is lost.  Things have gotten better, the prices have gone down, so if you have to wait a couple extra months for some extra stuff BOO HOO.  It's better than it used to be.

Agree wholeheartedly. ... I used to hate the price of VHS new releases. It was infuriating. ... I can't believe that by the end of May, we'll have just about every significant movie of 2003, including ROTK, available on DVD. Just awesome. ... Now I just need to go finish that new DVD shelf!

NEON MERCURY

Quote from: Cinephile
Quote from: NEON MERCURYi personaly believe that the rerason why dvd's are the film geek crack is b/c of the extras...
I think I disagree with you. Let's use Criterion for example. They release films with stunning restorations that ultimately sell their products. They have tons of extras but it's the new prints that are found and how the films are restored that get people creaming their pants (recent example: The Rules of the Games and myself).

i see what you are saying ...but take a gander at this example...(we will use renoir's  rules of the game also..)....let say that (w/ money not anissue) you  go into a store and see ROTG w/ a pristine/flawless/beatiful transfer..and crystal clear audio track(s) ....then next to that you see a different edition of ROTG w/ a "slightly" less quality in transfer/audio  but lets throw in there two commentary tracks, a 1 hour documentary and and cast/crew interviews on the other edition...if you like the film there is no way one would choose the first one rather than the latter......agree?

bonanzataz

the whole idea of superbit is such a bullshit marketing strategy it makes me sick. they make like they use up all the disc space on picture and sound and couldn't possibly fit one extra feature on there, and if they do, they put it on a second disc calling it "superbit deluxe." let's look at the punch drunk love disc. a dual layer dvd disc fits more than 8.5 gigabytes. the movie is 90 minutes long and, if you don't include the two 5.1 audio tracks, fits on a single layer (4.4 gigs). If you include the two audio tracks, the movie comes out at 5.3 gigs.  This leaves us with about 3.2 gigabytes for extra material, MUCH more than is needed with the mere 30 minutes of bonus material given. so... columbia presents us with two discs, which makes the consumer think, "wow! the transfer was so good that the bonus material had to dip into a second disc! I HAVE TO BUY THIS!" the consumer will now pay a heftier price, b/c, after all, two discs means costs more money and since it's superbit and they had to do a "whole new transfer" (meaning, some lab technician had to enter a higher number on the computer to change the bitrate of the original transfer) the money is well worth it. truth is, superbit DOES offer great picture and sound, but compare this with the moulin rouge dvd. great picture, dts sound, dolby 5.1 sound, spanish 2.0 sound, TWO audio commentaries, a two hour plus running time. THIS is a disc that was so loaded that it required a 2nd disc, not PDL.

basically, all i'm saying is that superbit is an overpriced gimmick and it makes me incredibly angry.


in regards to my feelings on extras or picture, i'd probably buy the one with the better transfer. i have an hdtv now and hardly ever watch extras or listen to commentaries.
The corpses all hang headless and limp bodies with no surprises and the blood drains down like devil's rain we'll bathe tonight I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls Demon I am and face I peel to see your skin turned inside out, 'cause gotta have you on my wall gotta have you on my wall, 'cause I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls collect the heads of little girls and put 'em on my wall hack the heads off little girls and put 'em on my wall I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls

cine

Quote from: NEON MERCURYi see what you are saying ...but take a gander at this example...(we will use renoir's  rules of the game also..)....let say that (w/ money not anissue) you  go into a store and see ROTG w/ a pristine/flawless/beatiful transfer..and crystal clear audio track(s) ....then next to that you see a different edition of ROTG w/ a "slightly" less quality in transfer/audio  but lets throw in there two commentary tracks, a 1 hour documentary and and cast/crew interviews on the other edition...if you like the film there is no way one would choose the first one rather than the latter......agree?
I think I would have to give them both a rent somehow or read some dvd reviews online in order to find out what exactly I'm missing. Because with a film like Rules of the Game, its the restoration that means the most to me.

Ravi

Taz, I agree.  Read on:

Quote
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190575&highlight=superbits

Excerpts from post #26

Gattaca is an even worse example. This "Superbit" edition, which also has absolutely no extras, measures a whopping 5.91 GB. Columbia even has the gall to say they include only the most basic menus in order to save as much bandwidth as possible for the movie. This disc has 1/3 of its space unused.

Allow me to continue...

Panic Room 5.83 GB

At least Adaptation is 7 GB and has a few meager extras. Not bad for a 2 hour flick.


My favorite is Punch-Drunk Love, which is a Superbit "Deluxe". There is so much on this collection it took two full discs to hold it all. Disc 1, which is dual layer is 6 GB. Hmmm. Disc 2 is....... 1.82 GB. That's right. all of this could have easily been put on 1 disc. I'm sure the decision to use 2 wasn't so they could discontinue the 2 disc version, create a demand for the 2 disc version and then bring out the 2 disc version again at a premium. Oh, wait, they already discontinued the 2 disc version.


Just as a comparison, I'll look at Moulin Rouge!, which I got brand new (2 disc edition) for a whopping $15. Disc 1 is 7.92 GB and the movie is only a couple minutes longer than Fifth Element, and if you want extras, you have the whole second disc which is 7.87 GB! All that for half the price of a Superbit.

Many Superbits are better than the first versions, but they were usually single layered and authored several years ago, so the comparison is not entirely fair.  Newer and better technology with compression, authoring, telecine, etc. are probably more influential in transfer quality than bitrate.

bonanzataz

it's weird that that guy used the same examples as i did. i guess we're both just dvd nerds looking for conspiracy...
The corpses all hang headless and limp bodies with no surprises and the blood drains down like devil's rain we'll bathe tonight I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls Demon I am and face I peel to see your skin turned inside out, 'cause gotta have you on my wall gotta have you on my wall, 'cause I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls collect the heads of little girls and put 'em on my wall hack the heads off little girls and put 'em on my wall I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls

Pubrick

a commercial, a collection of clips that were available online anyway, and korean subtitles.

that's the PERFECT DVD!
under the paving stones.

mogwai

i don't demand much on dvd's these. i used to be dead picky about the transfer, if the picture was in anamorphic widescreen and tadadada... i buy a lot of paramount titles like crocodile dundee, trains, planes & automobiles and so on. they're bare boned, got okay transfer but they have 5.1 digital sound. i only demand great transfer when it comes to criterion dvd's. my favorite dvd at the moment is fear and loathing in las vegas. it used to be fight club, magnolia or any other double disc dvd's. they're still hot but nothing can beat the supplements on fear and loathing.

billybrown

Quote from: taz.the whole idea of superbit is such a bullshit marketing strategy it makes me sick. they make like they use up all the disc space on picture and sound and couldn't possibly fit one extra feature on there, and if they do, they put it on a second disc calling it "superbit deluxe." let's look at the punch drunk love disc. a dual layer dvd disc fits more than 8.5 gigabytes. the movie is 90 minutes long and, if you don't include the two 5.1 audio tracks, fits on a single layer (4.4 gigs). If you include the two audio tracks, the movie comes out at 5.3 gigs.  This leaves us with about 3.2 gigabytes for extra material, MUCH more than is needed with the mere 30 minutes of bonus material given. so... columbia presents us with two discs, which makes the consumer think, "wow! the transfer was so good that the bonus material had to dip into a second disc! I HAVE TO BUY THIS!" the consumer will now pay a heftier price, b/c, after all, two discs means costs more money and since it's superbit and they had to do a "whole new transfer" (meaning, some lab technician had to enter a higher number on the computer to change the bitrate of the original transfer) the money is well worth it. truth is, superbit DOES offer great picture and sound, but compare this with the moulin rouge dvd. great picture, dts sound, dolby 5.1 sound, spanish 2.0 sound, TWO audio commentaries, a two hour plus running time. THIS is a disc that was so loaded that it required a 2nd disc, not PDL.

basically, all i'm saying is that superbit is an overpriced gimmick and it makes me incredibly angry.


in regards to my feelings on extras or picture, i'd probably buy the one with the better transfer. i have an hdtv now and hardly ever watch extras or listen to commentaries.

Agreed, 100% - about the Superbit thing. :yabbse-thumbup: