Xixax Film Forum

About love. First love. About being a couple. About being hungry.

Director: Abdelatif Kechiche
Stars: Adèle Exarchopoulos, Léa Seydoux
Release date (USA): 25 octobre 2013

Trailer




Best film of the year.

I am so fucking excited for this movie. If I had to pick a favorite genre, it'd be lesbian coming-of-age movies. Not because I'm a perv, as these movies tend not to be the sexiest, and the idea of lesbians isn't really more exciting to me, but because the emotional confusion of being 15 mixed together with society telling you that your desires are disgusting is such an effective mix for me. I also like gay male coming-of-age movies, and/or transgender films, but I do tend to empathize with women more than men in general, so the lesbian coming-of-age film really hits all the marks for me. You get that emphasis on the interior lives of the characters, and then when the sex happens, it is motherfucking fireworks.

AND this one is 3 hours long and the original title is THE LIFE OF ADELE: PARTS 1 & 2 which is lovely, not that BLUE IS THE WARMEST COLOR is a shabby title.

the secret of the grain is one of my favorite movies.  can't wait for this.

Quote from: matt35mm on August 16, 2013, 04:35:57 PM
lesbian coming-of-age movies. Not because I'm a perv, as these movies tend not to be the sexiest

if you're not a perv or close to that, why you worried about sexy? joking, i know why. joking about usa, not you. the great american puritanism

go sexy if you want,
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrUEmiAS.jpg&hash=38128e9eabbb543133df243ce6c39e14ebeeed83)

i like secret of the grain, and i like lesbian movies for reasons similar to what matt35mm described, and i like culture and counterculture, and i thought the cannes jury this year was a good jury. seems like a lock

Sorry Little Kids: 3-Hour-Long Lesbian Sex Movie 'Blue Is The Warmest Color' Officially Rated NC-17
Source: Playlist

While issuing a lengthy decree about a number of upcoming movies and their respective ratings, the MPAA has revealed that the Palm d'Or-winning lesbian sex movie "Blue is the Warmest Color," scheduled for release in America on October 25th, will carry with it the restrictive NC-17 rating for what they consider "explicit sexual content." The ratings board couldn't even be bothered with specifics. They might as well have just given the reason as "ewww two girls doin' it," but that would have probably undermined their godlike power.

The movie, about a 15-year-old girl (Adele Exarchopoulos), whose life is turned upside down when she meets a blue-haired vixen (Lea Seydoux), won rave reviews at Cannes Film Festival (including our own) and eventually won the festival's top prize. A few weeks ago Sundance Selects officially picked up the movie for stateside distribution, while it was revealed that the movie would miss out on being up for the Best Foreign Film Oscar because of weirdly specific rules covering overseas releases. (It will still be eligible for Golden Globes consideration, for what it's worth, and will undoubtedly sweep the Teen Choice Awards, since there isn't a "Twilight" movie out this year.)

The NC-17 rating, created in 1990 following the release of two highly publicized, ratings-less movies ("Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer" and "The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover"), has a history of restricting the movie's commercial viability given that many theater chains refuse to carry NC-17-rated movies and some newspapers and television stations won't air ads for movies with that rating. The most high profile NC-17 rated movie is still probably "Showgirls," which came out in 1995 and was a big, glitzy studio movie (featuring a fairly high budget of $40 million) that unabashedly embraced it's rating, which at least initially was meant to designated a movie specifically for adult audiences. In the years since its creation, of course, the rating has curdled into some naughty scarlet letter just as salacious as the rating it replaced: X.

Recent ratings battles involving an NC-17 include "Blue Valentine," which bafflingly was slapped with the rating for what can arguably be considered one of the least sexy sex scenes in the history of motion pictures, and, hilariously, "This Film Is Not Yet Rated," a wonderful documentary expose on the MPAA which itself got condemned with an NC-17 rating for reproducing scenes from NC-17-rated movies. Legal scholar Julie Hilden has written about the MPAA's "masterpiece exception," which she feels the MPAA rewards for movies that it considers to be great works of art, explaining how Steven Spielberg's graphic powerhouse "Saving Private Ryan" slipped by with an R while this year's "Evil Dead" remake had to be heavily recut to receive the same rating.

We should probably remember, however, that "Blue is the Warmest Color" is a three-hour long French movie with lesbian sex sequences that many have claimed were not simulated. So it's not exactly fun for the whole family material.

With subtitles

Very nice. Makes me wonder why "I Follow Rivers" never took off as a trailer song the way that "Ho Hey" and "Little Talks" have. The movie looks good, too.

Can't wait to see this. And I'm glad "I follow rivers" hasn't been overused by trailers! It works really well here though.

The kind of interview you don't read everyday (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/01/the-stars-of-blue-is-the-warmest-color-on-the-riveting-lesbian-love-sory-and-graphic-sex-scenes.html)

Bloody hell that's an incredibly frank interview.

what the hell is wrong with this kechiche dude?

i'm amazed at how well adjusted these poor nymphettes sound after being through such a grueling experience. as far as filmmaking goes, the way they do it in Europe is so different from how it's done in the states it's kind of mind boggling. in america if someone gives a great performance, or rather if a director consistently delivers great performances in his films, actors will fall over themselves to proclaim their love for their leader. EVERYONE wants to work with PTA, woodsy, etc. not to mention all the actors that remain loyal to their directors, like joaquin phoenix with james gray, leo and marty etc.

we see it historically too in European cinema like with truffaut and leaud, but there is another trend that reflects a lot of truth at least in this part of the interview:

QuoteLéa: The thing is, in France, it's not like in the States. The director has all the power. When you're an actor on a film in France and you sign the contract, you have to give yourself, and in a way you're trapped.

it's not just true of france. i think of the relation with Von Trier and his actors, who all give the performances of their life. i think of the people who come back. they are SICK! Skarsgard, Kier, Gainsbourg, these are bona fide pervs of a high order. haha. it's a different kind of relationship.

so when you see that this film has such incredible performances, the director still gets some credit and this comment doesn't seem to take anything away from it:

QuoteWould you ever work with Kechiche again?

Léa: Never.

Adèle: I don't think so.

in america this would probably kill a director's reputation. here i think the dude will be just fine.

He'll be stuffed in the difficult genius pervert category.

That really was one hell of an interview. Would like to see some more honest responses from actors and crew in interviews like that.
Didn't know much about this movie except that it as 3 hour lesbian film that was awesome at Cannes.

I'll try to explain what is happening with Kechiche in France right now. The Kechiche bashing became a national sport.

Kechiche had the reputation of being difficult. Now he has the reputation of being a bastard. Is he, really? Personally, I don't care. If a bastard is one of the few directors in France able to make great films, so be it. During Cannes, some technicians talked about long hours of works during months, not being payed extra-hours. Polemic. And that's the only real issue. They work hard, during a lot of time, not being payed for everything, and they don't win a Palme d'Or.

And lot of people hate Kechiche because, as they say, he pretends to be a "humanist" but, actually, HE'S THE DEVIL. But it feels as if they were saying: "He's a bastard, that's why I hate his films!"

And the movie isn't out yet, I've seen a premiere at Paris in May, but a lot of people don't even know about what they're talking about.

And it's a "lesbian film"; this year, the homosexual marriage became legal in France. But during months, families against it came to Paris in buses, protesting in the street with their young children shouting . So you have those people talking about "gay propaganda" (and the gay propaganda is made by a guy called Abdelatif! Arabs and gays!)

It's the first time that the actors complain, though. With 750 hours of rush, I can understand. It was unusually hard for a Kechiche, but it was still a Kechiche; they knew his method. And, yes, they're well adjusted, they won The Palme d'Or. Spielberg gave the Palme d'Or to Léa, Adèle and Kechiche. He can't do that because at Cannes it's impossible to give a prize to the actors and to the film but he's Spielberg.

Anyway, the french did sensationalism with this interview, but Léa and Seydoux tried to stop the fire, saying it was hard but that they learned a lot. Adèle will be a star because of Kechiche.

DP/30 interviews. The conflict is downplayed and everyone ultimately seems happy with the results. Great insights into the process. 


with the stars Seydoux and Exarchopolous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGKlgZQwVAM


and Kechiche

part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRlvYM--yVQ


part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf6q8D0Y4w4

"_You did an interview with the Daily Beast--
_Oh, the fucking Daily Beast!"


New trailer. No dialogue. Just music.

beach house is the music. such a lovely trailer,

but there's a certain degree of frustration derived from the usa marketing tactic of skipping language in trailers for movies with subtitles. if subtitles bother you you're already less likely to see the movie, and i have to tell someone "there are going to be subtitles. they're not mentioning them for some reason"

Adele Exarchopoulos' performance in this is INCREDIBLE. Daniel Day Lewis level of commitment to the role. She goes all the way and does not look back. Kechiche may have driven her nuts, but I've not seen anything like this for a long time. Reminded me of Sandrine Bonnaire in 'To Our Romance', except she just goes further and further. An amazing film.

SPOILERS

I felt so tense during the break-up scene. But I cried after, when she's dancing, and you feel how lonely she is...After two hours with Adèle, being Adèle, it made me so sad I had to stop breathing or I would annoy everyone with how loud I am when I can't stop crying. I think a lot about the "I follow rivers" scene too. Once again: dancing and alone...

I didn't like Emma, I thought she wasn't a good person. Pretentious? A way to think about art which is ridiculous. The love story is a lust story here, and it's great. You feel and see the desire of Adèle. Some scenes between Adèle and Emma were as intense than the processing scene from The Master. When Emma leave Adèle at the bar where they talked for the first time, you feel the void. How Adèle needs Emma. I felt it, anyway...

What did you think of the ellipse? Adèle's parents were ghosts, quiet...I wasn't waiting a confrontation. I liked that they disappeared. How the life of the first part goes away...The movie is not about how difficult it is to be homosexual in a homophobic society, or how difficult it is to accept your homosexuality. Adèle accept it. Emma is her refuge, that's why she hides from her parents.

She becomes an adult through this movie. With her passion of education...

I didn't like the sex scene, by the way. It felt cold. And it was the first time that Adèle has sex with a woman! It seemed too easy for her. I don't hate the scene, I just don't want to see it again...

SPOILERS

I thought Emma was like most University students, she thought she was way smarter than she actually was, when most of her views were kind of simplistic and narrow minded. But I believed her and even recognised such arguments from my own early relationships and arrogant-early 20s-know-it-bullshit. But this is TOTALLY Adele's story and her film. I literally fell in love with her and at the same time felt I was her. These actresses really need to show Kechiche some love, yes, it sounds like he was a manipulative asshole (that's just how some director's roll) but jesus, these performances! Adele's? Not seen anything like it for ages. You see everything through her eyes. Like the scene when she sees Emma for the first time, crosses the road and wanders around was just incredible. The lingering close ups on her throughout, catching her every thought and feeling. The first few scenes where she meets Emma, every gesture, every look and glance she gave Emma, I felt and I believed. I was going mad in the cinema. She was so intense and committed throughout. I think her performance is one for the books!

The scene when they argue was also incredible. The way how Adele dealt with being out of her depth was really well done, she just sticks to what she knows, doesn't she? Men and playing an almost motherly/wife role, making sure everyone at the party is alright  and talking to the person she most felt comfortable with, class and culture wise.

I loved the break into the second part, but I didn't find it as interesting as the first part, which was all desire, and longing and having sex for the first time, even though the second part is probably the most important as the story goes, as we see her put herself back together. I liked the scenes about the parents, just illustrated the differences in class and culture, and perhaps the roots of why their relationship didn't work. I really liked Emma in the second part. She has her life in order, but there was vulnerability there, she still cared for Adele and accepted that Adele had followed her ambitions and was making something of herself.

I didn't like bits of the long sex scene, some of the angles sucked and were just too in your face. I also felt that if they were gonna go all out with the lesbian sex, why didn't they do the same with the hetero sex? And I agree it was way to easy for Adele, there was no fumbling, but at the same time I guess she was so hungry and mad for Emma. But some of the later sex scenes, some moments, really captured Adele's hunger and desire. And the scene of them kissing for like two minutes. I just couldn't believe it and at the same time was wondering has anyone explored romantic desire (not obsessive desire) like this? I don't know...

I loved the shots of Adele eating. I realised that you never see people eating with their mouths open in movies. She had this epic appetite for life, eating, sex, dancing, etc. Also loved the scene at the demonstration, you see Adele come out her shell for the first time and see that she's dynamic and so full of energy, even though she hides it when she's part of a larger group. The actress seems more like this, from the DP30 interview...

I did think the ending was slightly so-so. What did you think of it? I liked that it didn't build to a climax, and that she made a choice to leave and accepted that she didn't fit in, but it felt, (just like the ending of Cous Cous) that Kechiche didn't quite know what to do or how to end it. What did you think?

The scene when Adele's female school friend tells her she's cute. Jesus!!! Amazing. The first half of this movie is so incredible and broke me up in so many ways. But I cried the most today seeing "Short Term 12" which also has an INCREDIBLE female lead performance, this time by Brie Larson, but that's for another post.

By the way, The Master totally came to my mind in the scene where she goes back to the bench in the park and lays down. In The Master outtakes there is a similar scene where Freddie goes back to the bench to think/dream about Doris and when he was also happy!!!! Both incredible films, from incredible directors and actors! Man, I love the movies!!!

SPOILERS

I'm so glad that you're as enthusiast than I am! I've never seen a movie like this one, even if I've seen and liked Kechiche first films. Once again, Adèle is incredible. I was her for three hours. It didn't think it was long, even if the second part isn't as good as the first one. I forgot my life. About Exarchopoulos, she doesn't blame Kechiche. You can watch this:



At one point, Kechiche says that he thought about a sequel, about the life of Adèle, and Adèle talks about playing Adèle a second time; then, Kechiche says: "I didn't say that I wouldn't change the actress." Adèle laughs. Then, Kechiche whispers to Adèle : "I was joking." and she says, sweetly : "I know." It was nice to see this moment between them.

Yes, Adèle is hungry. Young and hungry. Eating. Having sex. Her mouth is always open, by the way.

The ending is clearly not a ending. That's why it's called Chapter 1 and 2. What about chapter 2 and 3? But it ends her relationship with Emma. She goes away...Alone, yes. But Adèle is strong. But I love the ending of Couscous! It's such a sad ending...

About the bench : YES! YES! I miss the beach scene so much when I watch the Master. So when I saw this film, it was great to see some Freddie in Adèle...

I have nothing to add, we have a similar opinion. Which is great. I couldn't wait to share my love for this movie and Adèle.

Drenk - thanks for the press conference!

It's so good to see Kechiche and Adele together after all the negative press bullshit. Shame the audience didn't ask her more questions. Yes, I'm now officially an Adele groupie. But seriously, It would be amazing if they did further chapters ala Before Sunrise, Sunset, Midnight etc.

'Blue Is the Warmest Color' Director Slams 'Arrogant, Spoiled' Star in Open Letter
Countering her criticisms of the production, Abdellatif Kechiche threatens legal action against Lea Seydoux.
Source: THR

PARIS – The battle of words over Blue Is the Warmest Color is heating up, with director Abdellatif Kechiche now fanning the flames of controversy in an open letter published on the website Rue89 on Wednesday.

In an extensive takedown of several critics, he targets the newspaper Le Monde and journalist Aureliano Tonet as well as his star, Lea Seydoux, whom he believes said "slanderous" things about him and the production in an effort to gain attention following her historic Palme d'Or win.

While he begins with attacking the negative stories about the production published in Le Monde, star Seydoux is hardest hit in the letter, with Kechiche calling her an "arrogant, spoiled child." He appears to threaten possible legal action for the actress' statements in a series of interviews in which she criticized his shooting methods and said she would never work with him again.

"Miss Seydoux, who after having repeatedly thanked me publicly and privately and having wept in my arms at Cannes for allowing her to take on this noble role ... has, against all odds and all personal coherence, radically changed her attitude toward me."

"Thus after having been celebrated and glorified thanks to the Palme d'Or won by Blue Is the Warmest Color, she started to drag me through the mud with lies and exaggerations," he said, speculating that it was an extended PR effort to secure her image as a "rebel" and keep herself on magazine covers and in newspapers.

He calls her actions a "perverse fraud and manipulation" and goes on to say that she "knew her words were slanderous." In a passage that appears to threaten future legal action, he writes: "I will come back. It is for her to explain in court."

Kechiche has faced much criticism over his shooting methods -- from Seydoux as well as from anonymous sources on the crew. To Kechiche, the anonymous accusations from the production sources that were first laid out in Tonet's article are what sparked the controversy that has continuously dogged the film since Cannes. In Tonet's article, crewmembers alleged that the hours were long and shooting conditions brutal. Kechiche believes that this article would have ruined his career had the film not won the Palme d'Or.
In interviews that appeared earlier this year, Seydoux agreed with the allegations, calling the production "horrible" and said that she would never work with Kechiche again, citing his need for several retakes and an instance in which he threw his monitor because he was not satisfied with a scene.

The controversy hasn't hurt the film at the French box office. It sold 261,000 tickets in its first week of release on 285 screens and is nearing 600,000 in its second, a notably good showing because of its nearly three-hour length. American audiences will have a first look at the film, rated NC-17, on Fri., Oct. 25, when it opens in limited release.

looking forward to the movie

Quote from: jenkins<3 on October 23, 2013, 06:50:24 PM
looking forward to the movie

The first hour is really good. The rest of the hours, less so.

SPOILERS

QuoteHence the unforgettable image of Adèle in the sunshine, at a school gala, leading her pupils in a kind of shuffling conga. Dressed in bright ethnic costume, they are all smiles. But her smile is barely skin-deep; in the previous scene, we saw her in a blazing brawl with Emma—a conflagration that left Adèle stumbling along a nighttime street in feral moans of distress. Right now, a single closeup shows that, though encircled by young spirits, she wants to die.

This scene broke my heart. I mean, it really broke it. I had to stop breathing to stop the loud tears. I felt so fucking alone and desperate too. With her. And I thought that I would be alone, like her, forever.

The whole review : http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/cinema/2013/10/28/131028crci_cinema_lane?currentPage=1

the new yorker article is so good, so sweet, and gives me word juices

for the movies alone i hope lesbians and slaves take over xixax's news. imo movies like this don't need limited openings. again, because of the movies themselves. when their releases spread i hope they reach to xixax

the response isn't caused by the thing but by the person receiving the thing. i always remember this, and i appreciate how blue creates a portrait that allows for a diversity of responses. oh, what to say. i think he did such a great job that i can tell from the replies, that've been given here, something about the repliers. how they perceive people. the characters in blue are like people, yes, wonderfully so, and i'll talk about them like i do real people: i won't. i'm listening

my honest guess is i won't like 90% of the conversations about blue. i'll say i had high hopes and they were exceeded

Quote from: jenkins<3 on October 26, 2013, 06:50:43 PM
the characters in blue are like people, yes, wonderfully so, and i'll talk about them like i do real people: i won't. i'm listening

I want to listen too!

i'm curious about avenues of conversations that will arise from xixax. there are avenues of conversation possible from blue. so much of what i cherish here

to provide my personal summary: adéle converts into cinema, cinema converts into adéle -- and there's a substantial amount of insight into being alive in a certain time in a certain place and as a certain person

alt summary: like polkablues said during an important and high regard discussion of the hellraiser remake, many of blue's philosophical and ontological traditions (french traditions -- mm, if america could have such traditions!) "relate the themes of the story to the culture of today"

I watched it last night, still need to process but a night of sleep made it grow in my mind, which is a good sign. I'll be seeing it again. I was a bit shocked when the movie ended, as I could've sworn we were only at the 2-hour mark. It's the shortest-feeling 3-hour movie I've ever experienced, I think.

I guess I'll be in the minority of preferring the second-half to the first-half. I think I built up the first-half in my mind too much, and I'm looking forward to re-evaluating it upon a second viewing. The first sex scene did take me out of the movie. I thought the length was fine, but some of the angles invited laughter. The movie also has a hugely voyeuristic quality that is interesting and uncomfortable at the same time. I expected more "emotional" filmmaking, but instead it has an almost brutally rigorous voyeurism. The camera will watch Adele eat/sleep/cry/dance for real. It almost felt like an experiment, like she was a rat in a maze. The filmmaking doesn't really do anything to put you in her mind, except for a handful of moments (when she fantasizes about Emma for the first time while masturbating). All the camera does is watch her.

I think this approach suited the second-half more, for me. Throughout the first half, I just craved to be more emotionally manipulated, frankly. There was something dry-feeling about it. I liked the dancing to "I Follow Rivers" so much, and also the music when they first glance at each other, because of how much I craved music. The observational style coupled with this swell of passion that the first-half is about left me wanting, whereas in the latter half, it felt like that style really forced you to watch the rawness of a break-up. The prodding nature of the filmmaking made it more brutal, in a way that worked for me.

And then it ended before I was ready for it to. I could have watched another two hours of this, easily.

Maybe I'll say more things after a second viewing.

Quote from: matt35mm on October 30, 2013, 02:27:39 PMI guess I'll be in the minority of preferring the second-half to the first-half. I think I built up the first-half in my mind too much, and I'm looking forward to re-evaluating it upon a second viewing. The first sex scene did take me out of the movie. I thought the length was fine, but some of the angles invited laughter. The movie also has a hugely voyeuristic quality that is interesting and uncomfortable at the same time. I expected more "emotional" filmmaking, but instead it has an almost brutally rigorous voyeurism. The camera will watch Adele eat/sleep/cry/dance for real. It almost felt like an experiment, like she was a rat in a maze. The filmmaking doesn't really do anything to put you in her mind, except for a handful of moments (when she fantasizes about Emma for the first time while masturbating). All the camera does is watch her.

there's a minority/majority thing going on with 1st to 2nd half? not in that house

eat/sleep/cry/dance for real involves the senses. there are plenty of senses, it's true, and a thing to remember is those senses give her emotions. what kechiche doesn't do is substitute her emotions for filmmaking technique. he watches her feel, and i felt along with her. that was never a problem for me, even in the sex scenes because there were plenty of senses in those scenes too. like i said earlier, my focus isn't on seeing the sex. my focus is on seeing the people. and i like the passion and intimacy that was communicated through those scenes -- their passion, their intimacy

anytime you watch a person it's voyeurism? i'd have to hear more about voyeurism, i always thought it had to do with the viewer's pleasures being controlled by their personal wishes, something outside and selfish.

Quote from: jenkins<3 on October 30, 2013, 02:41:53 PM

Quote from: matt35mm on October 30, 2013, 02:27:39 PMI guess I'll be in the minority of preferring the second-half to the first-half. I think I built up the first-half in my mind too much, and I'm looking forward to re-evaluating it upon a second viewing. The first sex scene did take me out of the movie. I thought the length was fine, but some of the angles invited laughter. The movie also has a hugely voyeuristic quality that is interesting and uncomfortable at the same time. I expected more "emotional" filmmaking, but instead it has an almost brutally rigorous voyeurism. The camera will watch Adele eat/sleep/cry/dance for real. It almost felt like an experiment, like she was a rat in a maze. The filmmaking doesn't really do anything to put you in her mind, except for a handful of moments (when she fantasizes about Emma for the first time while masturbating). All the camera does is watch her.

there's a minority/majority thing going on with 1st to 2nd half? not in that house

eat/sleep/cry/dance for real involves the senses. there are plenty of senses, it's true, and a thing to remember is those senses give her emotions. what kechiche doesn't do is substitute her emotions for filmmaking technique. he watches her feel, and i felt along with her. that was never a problem for me, even in the sex scenes because there were plenty of senses in those scenes too. like i said earlier, my focus isn't on seeing the sex. my focus is on seeing the people. and i like the passion and intimacy that was communicated through those scenes -- their passion, their intimacy

anytime you watch a person it's voyeurism? i'd have to hear more about voyeurism, i always thought it had to do with the viewer's pleasures being controlled by their personal wishes, something outside and selfish.

About voyeurism, Kechiche said it was all about distance. He doesn't want distance with Adèle in the film, and, indeed, I was her during three hours (her and myself at the time...) but I never felt like I was watching her through a keyhole. If you don't have this strong identification, I understand that it might feel like voyeurism, though. 

And I love the second part as much as the first. The movie wouldn't be as great without the second part, it's the part that showed how you evolve through time, through a relationship, how you become adult...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXxp3diIcAAsVHK.jpg:large)

Why would a film be banned anywhere?

The movie has been growing in my mind and that's good. I retract saying that I liked the first half better than the second half--that was merely a reaction to the couple of posts here that said the first part is good and second part was less good.

My own experience of the movie is more complicated than feeling like I was Adele. There's been some criticism of the "male gaze" quality of the movie, and I find it difficult to deny. The camera has a leering quality to it; more than wanting to put us in her emotional headspace, it wants to watch. This, at least, is what I picked up on during the first viewing. I already want to watch it again and plan on doing so very soon.

I don't necessarily mean it as a criticism of the movie... but it is something that didn't allow me to just love it in a simple way. I think I will come to love this movie, because of how much there is to think about regarding what I perceived to be a leering quality of the style of the movie, and its genuine sensitivity and thoughtfulness. I don't think I'm over-reaching to say that it's a complicatedness that the movie is aware of, especially since there was the discussion at Emma's party about men trying to represent or capture the pleasure that women experience.

Anyway, I'll be re-watching it soon and will hopefully develop more thoughts about it. It's typical for me to have mixed feelings about an anticipated movie and then come to love it deeply upon re-watching it. The movies I love right away, I forget about within a year or two.

the lovely part is it becomes a conversation at a table. glad to hear. i think you're glad too

The movie wants us to watch, of course, to live every moment of the intimacy of Adèle. Voyeurism is still a strong word for this movie, I think, but not for his last movie, Vénus Noire (Black Venus, I guess), where we assist to the humiliation of a black woman with a big bottom; she dances in front of white rich people, and it's very hard to watch...I couldn't watch the whole movie.

I never see the "male gaze" in Adèle, though, even if Kechiche captures the beauty of their bodies, but he finds this beauty in simple and ordinary moments...

The male gaze, for me, is this representation of the woman : http://video.gq.com/watch/adele-exarchopoulos-can-make-anything-sound-sexy-even-duck-dynasty

About the man who talks about orgasms, it was obvious for me that he was saying bullshit. During the whole scene, we're out of the group, because Adèle is out. She's not included. She wanders around. They began to talk about Klimt, a PhD who said there was too many flowers...what a great thought...Then, the man talks about the mystery of the female organs, but we have seen, us, how real it is, how physic. It's nothing mystical. That's how I felt this scene.

I'm gonna hush my mouth about liking part one more than part two, I just want to see it again when it finally comes out here. But I agree with Matt, some of the angles during the sex scene just felt off and at odds with other shots in that scene and the way Kechiche and his team capture the relationship physically, elsewhere.

But I agree, Kechiche wants us to talk about how we see and view others and debate it. Looking back to 'Cous Cous' aka 'The Secret of the Grain'. SPOLIER ALERT. The scene where the girl has to dance and more-or-less give herself and her body to help save the Old Man, as everyone (mostly people of a different race/class) view her and take her in, in a voyeuristic way, is all about this to the point that I don't think Kechiche is just a champion of women, as Adele has been saying in various interviews, he's also a champion of minorities, the working class and the underclass, and living in Britain/Europe, I really appreciate that someone like Kechiche and say, Claire Denis do this in their movies...anyways I digress....

i saw it.

kechiche is an ass man.

main points i need to address in relation to things people have said so far:

• even though the film eventually labels itself as two chapters there is no need to try to rate the "best" part. this kind of thing has irked me since full metal jacket, where something as meaningless as stating a preference for a "part" passes as valid critique.. it's valid opinion in that my own asshole can make such a simple statement, but it's not interesting. if you must waste time on which part is the best the least you can do is try to reflect on why there is even a distinction between parts. see, the difference in the parts is interesting, or rather the progress that takes place between them, not whether one worked or not. if any part didn't work, in the end you just didn't like the film.

• matt35mm you are a cool dude but i have to disagree with you completely here: "The filmmaking doesn't really do anything to put you in her mind". i'm speechless.. you're making films man, this is not something i would expect a filmmaker to say.  i've hardly ever seen a film that has done MORE to put us in the mind of a character. basically, do you not consider acting as part of filmmaking? the example you gave as to a time we were given insight to her mind was literally being shown what she was thinking. the film develops its own language about what's going on in adele's mind, it's primary tool is adele's face.. did you at any point in the film look at her eyes? i know you always have liked to cut films down into departments. that may be what's happening here, you are looking at the image as if the camera is only looking from a distance, but it's not just looking, sometimes it's capturing. that's what this movie EXCELLED at, it captured everything. even the masturbatory moment you mention, that little dream, is not simply a product of her mind but a reflection of her emotional state.. the entire film is guided by her emotional state, sometimes as a reflection of thoughts but more often as a consequence of things words simply cannot express.

• adele is to emma as freddie is to master. ABSOLUTELY. there's a lot of great things that are true in this film, that are mysterious, and are true and mysterious in the master, can't wait to expand on this! and i don't mean content wise, but in their unflinching commitment to an actor's ability, ultimately an actor's humanity.

the sex scene was spectacular.

I agree that all the movie does is to put you in the character state of mind. You're always with Adèle during the whole thing and we see the world through her perspective. While I liked the movie very much (the only problem I had with the duration is that I saw it in a theatre with the most uncomfortable seats ever and after three hours I couldn't feel my ass) I have one complaint. Which is not that much of a complaint but more of a matter of personal taste, I suppose. It's about the directing and it's a point that I think Matt was trying to make: the movie just shows you stuff. While it may be great in extracting the best from the actors and making you almost BE the character for three hours it's at the same time cinematically flat. It's just close-ups of faces with very little detail about the world those faces inhabit. By detail I mean actual physical detail. There's one idea of mise en scène throughout and it's a shame as whenever Kechiche opens his shots a little bit we get some very good moments as well. I've been interpreting that, specifically the last shot of the movie (Adèle's full body walking along a street), as a way of Kechiche showing us that she's finally ready to leave her close-up life (her interior journey and obsession with Emma) and embrace the wide shots of the world ahead. But having not seen anything else by him, I don't know if this makes sense or if it's just the director's personal style. Anyway, great performance, excellent movie.

the blue is the warmest color graphic book comic thingy, the source material, has been translated and is out! stumbled upon it. very excited. a page will have black and white art, yet blue hair. sex scenes in here too, so the babies can still cry. i'm obvs buying this

This is on netflix instant now.

Quote from: Pubrick on November 24, 2013, 11:09:24 AM
i saw it.

kechiche is an ass man.

main points i need to address in relation to things people have said so far:

• even though the film eventually labels itself as two chapters there is no need to try to rate the "best" part. this kind of thing has irked me since full metal jacket, where something as meaningless as stating a preference for a "part" passes as valid critique.. it's valid opinion in that my own asshole can make such a simple statement, but it's not interesting. if you must waste time on which part is the best the least you can do is try to reflect on why there is even a distinction between parts. see, the difference in the parts is interesting, or rather the progress that takes place between them, not whether one worked or not. if any part didn't work, in the end you just didn't like the film.

• matt35mm you are a cool dude but i have to disagree with you completely here: "The filmmaking doesn't really do anything to put you in her mind". i'm speechless.. you're making films man, this is not something i would expect a filmmaker to say.  i've hardly ever seen a film that has done MORE to put us in the mind of a character. basically, do you not consider acting as part of filmmaking? the example you gave as to a time we were given insight to her mind was literally being shown what she was thinking. the film develops its own language about what's going on in adele's mind, it's primary tool is adele's face.. did you at any point in the film look at her eyes? i know you always have liked to cut films down into departments. that may be what's happening here, you are looking at the image as if the camera is only looking from a distance, but it's not just looking, sometimes it's capturing. that's what this movie EXCELLED at, it captured everything. even the masturbatory moment you mention, that little dream, is not simply a product of her mind but a reflection of her emotional state.. the entire film is guided by her emotional state, sometimes as a reflection of thoughts but more often as a consequence of things words simply cannot express.

• adele is to emma as freddie is to master. ABSOLUTELY. there's a lot of great things that are true in this film, that are mysterious, and are true and mysterious in the master, can't wait to expand on this! and i don't mean content wise, but in their unflinching commitment to an actor's ability, ultimately an actor's humanity.

the sex scene was spectacular.

Great post. I loved this film, the best i've seen in ages

Thanks to Pas' reviving this thread, I finally watched it tonight. Actually glad I waited - watching this movie now was like getting heavy rain after a long drought.

Quote from: max from fearless on October 18, 2013, 06:24:52 PM
Adele Exarchopoulos' performance in this is INCREDIBLE. Daniel Day Lewis level of commitment to the role. She goes all the way and does not look back. Kechiche may have driven her nuts, but I've not seen anything like this for a long time. Reminded me of Sandrine Bonnaire in 'To Our Romance', except she just goes further and further. An amazing film.

Completely. She blew me away. The acting is real.