Xixax Film Forum

I'm shocked that this classic hasn't been talked about very much. It's my fourth favorite Scorsese movie. It's become "the film that started it all" in the gangster genre. I love Robert De Niro and Harvey Kietel in their roles. By the way, if you go to this movie on imdb.com and click under "posters", you'll scroll down and find a UK Quad poster of the movie. It's so great! I just wish I could find it for a reasonable price. I'd pay 50 dollars for it. I guess it's really rare.

you think Mean Streets did more for the "gangster genre" than the Godfather?

Quote from: filmcriticIt's become "the film that started it all" in the gangster genre.

What? Edward G. Robinson, James Cagney, James Garfield and Paul Muni were making gangster films way before this.

Alright, "Mean Streets" was one of the first movies to establish the gangster genre. It also started Martin Scorsese's career and Robert De Niro's and Harvey Kietel's. By the way, did anyone check out that poster?

Mean Streets is my favorite film of all time.  There are so many wonderful moments in this film you have to see it multiple times to appreciate them all.  This film represents the first time Scorsese found his true cinematic voice, and it also launched the acting careers of De Niro and Keitel.  David Proval and Richard Romanus were also brilliant.  The ensemble is wonderfully balanced -- De Niro's hyperkinetic craziness is counter-balanced by Romanus' low-key sulking.  

As great as Taxi Driver, GoodFellas and Raging Bull are, I feel they get too much attention at the expense of Mean Streets.

I had to see Mean Streets a couple of times before I could catch it all, the dialogue and banter. I love the slow motion shot of De Niro in the bar, especially because of the way it ends with a really awkward cut. His perfomance in this is my second favourite after King of Comedy. Seeing Harvey Keitel's body also always reminds me how hot he was. Still is.

Ah, where did all that rough energy go? So wish Scorsese would try to recapture his youth. Comparing his Top Ten list to Gangs of New York and watching Mean Streets makes me think he's lost it, that thing he loves.

I don't know if I can say this as criticism, but Mean Streets is very boring to me. The major positive to me is De Niro. He is magnificent. An easy way to identify his control of the character is that his performance feels like him as another person. It is harder to distinguish De Niro in this movie as being the man who played the roles he did in Raging Bull, Goodfellas and even Taxi Driver. I don't identify De Niro by De Niro in this movie. When I watch the movie, I see the character.

For criticism of the film, I definitely understand when people say this is Scorsese's most "personal" film. Structurally, it is. The movie feels like a never ending diary of these guys that skirts on convential storylines but hardly fulfills at all for much of anything besides what De Niro is able to offer. When the film seems to find a point of tension with De Niro and his troubles with everyone else, the movie continues on in general diary. When the story of Kietal and his girlfriend seems to be going down a path to a storyline where something may be achieved, the film just continues in general diary form. I guess the argument of defense for the film is that its a realistic film and just capturing the environment of the world in all its hope and unruliliness for these guys. I disagree. For so much of the movie, the film rides on points of interests very convential. The most obvious is De Niro and simply paying back the guy he owes money to. The movie focuses on this instead of the environment and it ends up dragging whole the situation past interest in continually repeating De Niro skipping out of paying and Kietal continually making apologies. I believe for the film to have captured a better air of realism and angst, its storyline would have been a bigger picture of the entire scene. Instead, its a very rambling story that addresses many things to the side, but finds a steady pace on following on a few situations without ditching them to gain higher realism of the environment or focus on them to gain satisfaction in what they could bring.

~rougerum

I loved Mean Streets. Simple fact is- it's some of DeNiro, Keitel, and Scorsese's oldest work, yet it's still amoung their best, too. Nobody can call themselves a fan of the 3 unless they've seen this.

I was wondering though...what's that italian song playing at the very end? I can't get that out of my head!

I believe that's Scapricciatiello by Renato Carosone

Luckily enough, I made the Mean Streets soundtrack for myself! 8)

Mean Streets is amazing for the same reasons a film like Casino is amazing. You feel Scorsese all over the film having a blast with the music, with the moving camera, with the cuts... It's really great in technical terms. Plus it deals very well with the theme of guilt and friendship and has really good performances by everybody.

Quote from: filmcriticI'm shocked that this classic hasn't been talked about very much. It's my fourth favorite Scorsese movie. It's become "the film that started it all" in the gangster genre. I love Robert De Niro and Harvey Kietel in their roles. By the way, if you go to this movie on imdb.com and click under "posters", you'll scroll down and find a UK Quad poster of the movie. It's so great! I just wish I could find it for a reasonable price. I'd pay 50 dollars for it. I guess it's really rare.

hhahahhah where is filmcritic..????.. :wink:

wonderful synopsis.....

Mean Streets is a very complex film, and needs to be seen more than once.  It has the same kind of atmospheric density as McCabe and Mrs. Miller.

For those who think there's no story, or that "nothing happens," there is a very strong, simple thread running through the entire film -- it is Charlie (Harvey Keitel) trying to serve two masters, God and man.  Charlie feels guilt about his lifestyle, and tries to have it both ways, reveling in the world of the flesh while trying to remain a good Catholic.  One moment he will go collect money for a bookie, the next moment he will put his hand in a flame to punish himself.  We see him sleeping with Theresa, which is fobidden by his powerful Uncle.  We see him helping his cousin Johnny Boy, and yet trying to appease the guys who have been burned by Johnny Boy.  He wants to be loyal to his Uncle Giovanni and yet he wants to help Johnny Boy, who is a hopeless case.  Charlie is torn between the Mafia and the Church, between his friends and Johnny Boy, between his powerful Uncle and Theresa.  Ultimately, he can't juggle all these balls, and disaster befalls him.

I really appreciate this film.

Here's an example of some dialogue:

David Proval and Richard Romanus are trying to con two burn-outs into buying firecrackers --

"This stuff comes from Maryland -- you know what that means?"
"No."
"That means it's good shit."

Or how about the scene in which David Proval reveals his pet baby tiger in the back room of the bar?  Or when Proval drinks after shave during a drunken revel?  Or when the cop breaks up a poolroom brawl, and finds a nail file in someone's pocket, and says, "This is a very dangerous weapon."

The first time I saw it was in film history class. My roomate whined and complained about how booring it was.

I was simply blown away. If only I could make a film like this someday.

I'm behind but this is so far my favorite Scorsese film.  I think bigger budgets actually hurt Scorsese.  I first must point out that I haven't seen enough Scorese films (only Boxcar B ertha, Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, The King of Comedy, GoodFellas, Casino & Gangs of New York).  Many great films are noticeably missing.  ANyways, this film just blew me away.  I wasn't expecting it to be this good.  The first 5 minutes is probably the best first 5 minutes I have ever seen.  The film is New York Breathless, although much of it filmed in LA.

Back to my bigger budget point, films like Gangs of New York & even Goodfellas seem staged.  These flicks feel like movies, which is fine but I prefer Taxi Driver, Mean Streets (and even King of Comedy) because the story and the characters surpass the film and it just seems like a documentary.  Marty's style really lends itself to this and when he hits it just right (perfectly in Mean Streets) it's brilliant.

This film fuckin' floored me and I was wondering if there is another DVD release in the future?

Quote from: SHAFTRThis film fuckin' floored me and I was wondering if there is another DVD release in the future?

This is asked very often around here and I'll bet that a new 2 disc release will be with GoodFellas in September.

I hope so.

I always thought Sylvester Stallone stole his look for Rocky from De Niro's lookin Mean Streets, Check out De Niro in the beginning when he blows up the mailbox.  Stallone's look in Rocky is a blatant rip off.

Quote from: jasper_windowI always thought Sylvester Stallone stole his look for Rocky from De Niro's lookin Mean Streets, Check out De Niro in the beginning when he blows up the mailbox.  Stallone's look in Rocky is a blatant rip off.

Yeah, kinda. DeNiro completely owns that image, and has the acting talent to back it up. Stallone on the other hand has this expression that probably wouldn't change if you blew up a house in front of him. DeNiro should patent it, and lease it to other actors for ridiculously high prices: The Hunched DeNiro In Leather Jacket LookTM

Hopefully Stallone won't afford it.

Anyway, it's been mentioned 1000 times on Xixax but Warner Bros. made it official by stating that the GoodFellas Special Edition and Mean Streets Special Edition will be released in 2004. They even said Mean Streets SE will be released "sooner than you think".

Could someone post Pauline Kael's Mean Streets review?

Can't seem to find it on the 'net anywhere, but I have it in her "For Keeps" collection.  It's over six pages long, small type, not anything for transcribing unless you wish your hands to fall off.  Maybe later if no one else can find it and I'm feeling especially bored.

Alright , well maybe someone can help me out with something.

In the scene in the beginning with Charlie, the confession scene.
It is Scorsese's voice that starts out with

"Lord, I am not worthy to eat your flesh
Not worthy to drink your blood.
"

Then it's Keitel? who says:
"Not worthy to drink your blood.

Ok. Ok, I"d just come out of confession, right?
Right, And the priest gives me the usual penitence, right?
10 Hail Marys, 10 Our Fathers, 10 whatever.  
Now...You know that next week I'm going to come back and he's going to give me another 10 hail marys and 10 our fathers.  You know how I feel about that shit.  Those things, they don't mean anything to me.  They're just words.

Now, that may be ok for the others, but it just doesn't work for me.  I mean, if I do something wrong, I just want to pay for it my way.  SO I do my own penance for my own sins.  What do you say, huh?
"

Now, after this, he (keitel?) says:
"That's all bull shit except the pain, right?  The pain of hell.  The burn from a lighted match increased a million times.  Infinite.  Now, you don't fuck around with the infinite.  There is no way you do that.

Pain in hell has 2 sides.  The kind you can touch with your hand, the kind you can feel in your heart, your soul, the spiritual side.  And you know, the worst of the two, is the spiritual.
"


My question is, after the part that I've designated as Scorsese, is the rest Keitel or is some of it Scorsese speaking?

I saw this for the first time a few days ago. UNBELIEVABLE! The whole time I was watching it, I kept thinking how ahead of its time it was. The whole film 'felt' like it was from the 90s. It was so slick with everything, it totally blew me away. It didn't even have to try for my attention, I loved it from the minute it started. I can't believe this was made 1972 and people didn't make more of it, it's so amazing.

I love how Keitel is always on the verge of hitting de Niro but then playfully messes with him, he always reverts to a childlike affection for him, like unconditional love. And that fight in the poolhall is hilarious and fantastic.

Mean Streets is my favorite film of all time.  Repeated viewings will yield countless aesthetic dividends.  I think the ensemble acting is the best I've ever seen.  De Niro and Keitel are brilliant, but so are Romanus and Proval.  The interplay between these four actors is simply outstanding.  Watch it 20 times or more like me, and you'll see new things each time.

Also -- the use of music, a mixture of rock and Italian opera, is groundbreaking.  The sense of mood, the claustrophobia and comfort to be found in an insular neighborhood, is palpable.  The compositions, the cutting, the blocking -- all outstanding.  Every film student should study this film for hours on end.