the cremaster cycle

Started by cowboykurtis, April 04, 2003, 09:37:22 PM

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Pedro

#45
December 05, 2003, 10:31:18 PM
Holy Shit!  I saw Cremaster 1 and 2 tonight...im not really sure what to think right now...i feel really confused/hypnotized/amazed...it was unlike anything ive seen before.  and while it has some flaws, as an overall work, so far, the cremaster cycle is phonomenal.  i can't wait to see 4 and 5 tomorrow.  holy shit.

foray

#46
December 06, 2003, 10:29:25 PM
Ok this is going off a tangent, but has anyone heard the Rasputina song that makes fun of Matthew Barney, Bjork, PJ Harvey and Vincent Gallo (the song is set in a celebrity double-date)? I heard it last night and it's hilarious.

foray
touch me i'm sick

godardian

#47
December 06, 2003, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: forayOk this is going off a tangent, but has anyone heard the Rasputina song that makes fun of Matthew Barney, Bjork, PJ Harvey and Vincent Gallo (the song is set in a celebrity double-date)? I heard it last night and it's hilarious.

foray

I have varied degrees of fondness for all mentioned, but I'd still like to hear the song. It sounds like it could be really funny.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Pedro

#48
December 06, 2003, 11:03:51 PM
saw 4 and 5 tonight.  they're more accessible, but i think foray's right in saying the second is the best.  i wish i had read up more on the second before seeing it though...i did for 4 and 5, and im sure they were more accessible because of it...my knowledge with the visuals would have made 2 the best by far...great to see patty griffin there though!  within 30 seconds of the song i knew it was her.  she has such a distinct voice.  

bees kick ass

i encourage all of you to see this if you have a chance.  i need to find ALL of 3 somewhere...

foray

#49
December 07, 2003, 12:21:19 AM
Well, this is what I gather from watching crem 2 & 3 (I hope to see the rest eventually!):

*spoiler (?)*
The heavy metal band Slayer (one of Barney's fave bands) scene represents Johnny Cash who spoke to Gary Gilmore, because that was GG's final wish before execution.

The two cars joined at the hip, so to speak, at the gas station, refers to how Gary Gilmore met his girlfriend. They both met a gas station and discovered that they owned the exact same kind of car. And more obviously, the scene with him waiting in the car mirrors his wait for death in prison.

This confuses things a little. Because it may be that he is in fact in prison in that scene. So when the heavy metal guy is talking to him over the phone, it really is as if Johnny Cash is speaking to GG in prison. So, the next scene where GG kills the attendant may be GG reliving his bloody deed in prison. Cash's phone call = ministerial, incitement?

Norman Mailer, who plays Houdini, hates women. I had this in mind when seeing him get indignant before the queen bee figure. It's also significant that Mailer plays the part of Houdini, GG's supposed ancestor; as it was Mailer who wrote GG's biography, making the narrative come full circle.

Often Barney's Cremaster films are tributes to big monolithic male figures in the art world. Richard Serra, of course. Norman Mailer (literary). (I'm forgetting a few more...) And Robert Smithson.

Robert Smithson built the famous and ambitious Spiral Jetty off the shore of the Great Salt Lake. It was recently exposed due to a drop in the lake's level. It resurfaces again in Cremaster 2, but as Barney's 'version' of the monument. (That's where GG rides the bull.)

Among other things, there is the theme of absorption. This is more directly explored in Houdini's remark that he becomes the cage before escaping it. A change must always occur. Similarly, the Cremaster series as a whole is about transcending one's limitations - that includes one's gender, identity, etc. Which is why GG is 'reborn' in Crem 3 as a woman. Barney is also absorbing all these male greats that came before him, but although he pays tribute to them, he is making their work his own. He Barney-fies their styles. Think of Richard Serra in Crem 3 smacking a diminutive Serra sculpture (Serra is known for monumental works) with Barney-ish vaseline. The dentist chair scene also illustrates this more explicitly, where Barney absorbs something Serra puts into his mouth, then excretes it as his own.

Any thoughts, comments?


foray
touch me i'm sick

godardian

#50
December 07, 2003, 12:53:49 AM
Quote from: forayThe dentist chair scene also illustrates this more explicitly, where Barney absorbs something Serra puts into his mouth, then excretes it as his own.

What a great, illuminating interpretation. I found that particular scene remarkably evocative, and I had my own quasi-Lacanian psychosexual impression of it (esp, regarding the sea monkey-looking genitalia), but your interpretation makes beautiful "sense." As an side, I would've been giving plenty of dirty looks toward the many juvenile titters at this scene had I not been so riveted by what was on the screen.

Thanks for all the other info, too.

You an art student? Or just very well-read on Barney?
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Pedro

#51
December 07, 2003, 01:40:00 AM
Sadly, I wasn't able to see the third...but as far as what you said about 2 and gilmore, i gotcha there.  i read about that all somewhere, so it adds to my appreciation of the films.  but you should see 5 though, it's really something.

foray

#52
December 07, 2003, 10:07:38 AM
Quote from: godardianYou an art student? Or just very well-read on Barney?

Never read stuff on Barney. I saw the films and discussed them with friends.

foray

p/s: here is the Rasputina song: "PJ + Vincent & Matthew + Bjork "

PJ:
I'm so fucking, fucking, fucking, hot!

Vincent:
I know you are, babe.

PJ:
No, it's quite hot in here.

Vincent:
Are you stupid?
It is the nature of a glass house.
Oh fabulous, here's Matthew and Bjork.

Bjork:
Hello.

Matthew:
Vincent, Polly - So good to see you.

Bjork:
I'm so excited!
I've never been on such an artistic and exclusive double date before.
The erotic reawakening that
Matthew has brought about in me
He's opened up a lot of plebeian activities that I've not experienced before
now.
I'm loving it, to do these things that aren't necessarily elfin

Vincent:
Yea, Bjork, whatever.
I just wanna know when you two down, who's wearing the clovenhoof strap-on?

PJ:
Vincent! How rude!
Could I weigh any less?
I'm really quite shy of my weight,
but I like to take on characters for performing with the use of make-up.
Eye make-up and lipstick and some more lipstick -- it's really quite
transformative
And when I've thrown up everything I've just eaten then I feel--

Bjork:
Oh to throw up -- It means what?
Also, everybody, what is the definition of disingenuous?
I want to know so many things
I've got a lot of money for designer clothes
I can just trudge through the desert getting my comp de garçon? skirt all
dirty and dusty
It don't matter
If hopping into a live volcano feels right, I say do it.

Matthew:
I say, khaki chinos are fine with me on the downtime, but what do you kids say
to a picnic?
I've got the basket in the bently waiting
We could play some touch football, what do you say?

Vincent:
Hey, yea, Matthew, we're both hot former football players
I know Bjork can fight like a motherfucker, but Polly would snap like a twig at the smallest tackle
let's put her on a hook and do some minnow fishing
Polly?
Oh look, she's banging her head against the wall and Bjork's recording it

Bjork:
The rhythm! It moves my insides like sunshine jelly!

Matthew:
Isn't she a darling thing?

Vincent:
When she says 'jelly' it makes me think of someone's ass, and then I think--

Matthew:
How dare you, sir! That's my childwoman you're speaking of!

Vincent:
Matthew, I didn't say Bjork
I'm just thinking of any ass
Not even necessarily a woman, it could be my own ass
Like my ass is--

PJ:
Vincent you are an ass!
You are an ass!

Matthew:
What about my ass?
It's hard from sports

This repulsive celebrity double date has been brought to you by the Church of
Latter Day Saints
touch me i'm sick

Pubrick

#53
December 07, 2003, 10:23:30 AM
Quote from: foray[Vincent:
Oh look, she's banging her head against the wall and Bjork's recording it
.....

Matthew:
How dare you, sir! That's my childwoman you're speaking of!
thanks, i enjoyed that.
under the paving stones.

godardian

#54
December 07, 2003, 12:20:46 PM
I'd actually like to hear it sung... which I'm sure adds another dimension. I'll look for it.

And where was Thom Yorke??  :lol:
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

cron

#55
January 07, 2004, 09:07:00 AM
will there ever be a box-set?   i'm not buying The Order...
context, context, context.

godardian

#56
January 07, 2004, 09:32:46 AM
Quote from: chuckhimselfowill there ever be a box-set?   i'm not buying The Order...

I'm reluctant to buy The Order, as well. But if no box set appears planned within the next couple of months, I might break down and do it.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

cron

#57
January 07, 2004, 09:35:35 AM
Quote from: godardian
Quote from: chuckhimselfowill there ever be a box-set?   i'm not buying The Order...

I'm reluctant to buy The Order, as well. But if no box set appears planned within the next couple of months, I might break down and do it.

let's hope that day never comes... The Order is sooo expensive.
context, context, context.

cowboykurtis

#58
January 07, 2004, 01:40:02 PM
where can you buy the order? -- it looks like theres a box set up @ palmpictures.com yet you can not buy it -- anyone know what the deal with this shit is?
...your excuses are your own...

cron

#59
January 07, 2004, 01:58:52 PM
what scares me is that The Order costs 25 bucks at amazon.com and it only has 30 minutes (or something)  from the 3rd movie. Imagine how much will the boxset cost...
context, context, context.
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