at the cinema I worked I hear this a lot, where uppity people come out of the theater complaining about how the movie was bad because "nothing happened" and then they'll be quick to call it "pretentious" and then assure me that they're cultured people who do like independent/ foreign movies like "crouching tiger hidden dragon"/ "life is beautiful"/ or (!) Bend It Like Beckham.
but what about movies where for real, nothing happened?
Quote from: peteat the cinema I worked I hear this a lot, where uppity people come out of the theater complaining about how the movie was bad because "nothing happened" and then they'll be quick to call it "pretentious"
Reason #357 why more people should die
i guess it's just a matter of popinion as to whether or not 'what happens' in a film constitues a substantial enough event for the people to deem it worthy of their money. I can't think of too many films 'where nothing happnes at all'. maybe a high school film project or something. but I assume you are refering to people commenting on things like Amelie or Lost in Translation. Maybe the people complaining are able to catch the nuances of character development or personal growth that are 'what happens' in some films. Or maybe for some people for 'something to happen' someone must die or get blown up. at any rate it's the same for art, literature, and music. some people just don't get it unless they are assaulted with the substance f the work. it's like thinking or feeling their way through it is just too hard.
Seinfeld - Greatest Show Ever
A show about nothing.
my roommate claims Fight Club is an independent movie
I think I prefers someone who watches Torque and say it's a cool movie than someone who pretends liking indies and stuff and creams his pants over My Big Fat Greek Wedding or Bent it like Beckham.
Quote from: Pas RapportI think I prefers someone who watches Torque and say it's a cool movie than someone who pretends liking indies and stuff and creams his pants over My Big Fat Greek Wedding or Bent it like Beckham.
I love that, I couldn't agree more.
I'm putting that as my quote, if you don't mind...
Quote from: SoNowThenQuote from: Pas RapportI think I prefers someone who watches Torque and say it's a cool movie than someone who pretends liking indies and stuff and creams his pants over My Big Fat Greek Wedding or Bent it like Beckham.
I love that, I couldn't agree more.
I'm putting that as my quote, if you don't mind...
I think both parties are equally despicable.
Nah, at least one isn't phony.
Pete, you have hit the bullseye. I have heard the phrase "nothing happened" so many times in regards to art/indie films it has become the official mantra of philistines. People have been conditioned by Spielberg and Bruckheimer to expect an action set piece scene every 10 minutes, and if you don't get one, then "nothing is happening." The flip side of this is a surfeit of action, like in Con Air or other Bruckheimer movies, in which something's always happening, but nothing is going on. "Sound and fury, signifying nothing," could well describe 90% of the major studio product.
Quote from: SoNowThenQuote from: Pas RapportI think I prefers someone who watches Torque and say it's a cool movie than someone who pretends liking indies and stuff and creams his pants over My Big Fat Greek Wedding or Bent it like Beckham.
I love that, I couldn't agree more.
I'm putting that as my quote, if you don't mind...
I do not at all... I don't have a title, but I'm in two people's sig. I feel like my life means something now. I think I'll go take a walk outside and talk to people. Oh god, I feel so ALIVE !
Quote from: Pas RapportQuote from: SoNowThenQuote from: Pas RapportI think I prefers someone who watches Torque and say it's a cool movie than someone who pretends liking indies and stuff and creams his pants over My Big Fat Greek Wedding or Bent it like Beckham.
I love that, I couldn't agree more.
I'm putting that as my quote, if you don't mind...
I do not at all... I don't have a title, but I'm in two people's sig. I feel like my life means something now. I think I'll go take a walk outside and talk to people. Oh god, I feel so ALIVE !
while we're on the subject:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soulblaze.com%2Fimages%2Fmusic%2Fpod_alive_video.jpg&hash=398465ddae6e91c5ae86fb43ac2e57733b35dd99)
Chorus:
I feel so alive
For the very first time
I can't deny you
I feel so alive
I feel so alive
For the very first time
And I think I can fly (fly)
Sunshine upon my face (sunshine upon my face)
A new song for me to sing
Tell the world
How I feel inside (Tell the world how I feel inside)
Even though it might
Cost me everything
Now that I know this
So beyond, I can't hold this
I can never
Turn my back away
Now that I've seen you (Now that I've seen you)
I can neva look away
Repeat chorus
Now that I know you
(I could never
Turn my back away)
Now that I see you
(I could neva look away)
Now that I know you
(I could neva
Turn my back away)
Now that I see you
(I believe no matta
What they say!)
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaI think both parties are equally despicable.
if you think someone sucks for liking a movie, any movie, doesn't that make you a snob? i mean, i think someone can justifiably be labeled as an idiot if you were to hear his actual thoughts on cinema [i.e.
torque was awesome...it was never boring, lots of action, and that chick was sooo hot.]. but to just like a movie like that, i see nothing wrong, as long as you can give mature and logical reasons for liking it, coupled with thoughts on an assortment of other genres.
this happened to me a while ago at work:
i ask a co-worker "seen any good movies lately?"
co-worker: i saw
swat. it was fucking cool.
me [silently a little disappointed]: oh yeah? was it good?
him: "lots of action, bro. i like action movies."
assistant manager comes in: oh, walsh [me] doesn't like movies like that, do you walsh?
me: not really.
manager: walsh likes movies like "clock orange". those are boring movies walsh. "clock orange". ehh.
the manager used to work at blockbuster when i was in junior high, so i guess that's why he said that.
anyways, yeah. that happened.
People like your manager need to get hit by buses more.
Quote from: SoNowThenPeople like your manager need to get hit by buses more.
yes. yes he does.
What I find most interesting about situations like these is that someone who really doesn't give a shit about something, someone who is terribly ignorant, would feel the need to single someone else out who cares and takes the time to acquire the knowledge, in order to make that person look bad. People's need for acceptance will make them do funny things. I've been in a group of people where the conversation revolved around Harry Potter, the tv reality shows, and whatever was on the top ten at ten radio station last night, and brought up something that, although still fairly mainstream, wasn't the flavor of the month, and people have turned and looked at me like I got up and took a shit on the table.
And usually it's the most self-conscious people pulling shit like this. Like you said, this smarmy asshole comes out and announces like he's heard it all before "this guy likes weird movies". Like he wants a big pat on the back from the other coworkers so he can be in the "group".
"oh really, so it is him that likes the weird movies. I thought for a minute it was me, but now I see that he's the idiot, and we're all the normal ones. Pats on the back all around..."
*sigh*
As I was reading thought this was the funniest phrase/post of the week...
Quote from: SoNowThen
people have turned and looked at me like I got up and took a shit on the table.
but no, it is this one that took the cake.
Quote from: SoNowThen
"oh really, so it is him that likes the weird movies. I thought for a minute it was me, but now I see that he's the idiot, and we're all the normal ones. Pats on the back all around..."
:-D
Quote from: snaporazif you think someone sucks for liking a movie, any movie, doesn't that make you a snob? i mean, i think someone can justifiably be labeled as an idiot if you were to hear his actual thoughts on cinema [i.e. torque was awesome...it was never boring, lots of action, and that chick was sooo hot.]. but to just like a movie like that, i see nothing wrong, as long as you can give mature and logical reasons for liking it, coupled with thoughts on an assortment of other genres.
this happened to me a while ago at work:
i ask a co-worker "seen any good movies lately?"
co-worker: i saw swat. it was fucking cool.
me [silently a little disappointed]: oh yeah? was it good?
him: "lots of action, bro. i like action movies."
assistant manager comes in: oh, walsh [me] doesn't like movies like that, do you walsh?
me: not really.
manager: walsh likes movies like "clock orange". those are boring movies walsh. "clock orange". ehh.
the manager used to work at blockbuster when i was in junior high, so i guess that's why he said that.
anyways, yeah. that happened.
But if you don't really like those kinds of films and/or the people who do like them, wouldn't that make you a snob also? I don't understand what you "a little disappointed" by; that he/she liked "SWAT" (which I'm assuming you haven't seen) or at your co-worker's mini-review. I think you're asking a lot if you think the casual moviegoer is going to give you a detailed, Roger Ebert analysis-type review, especially on mindless escape movies like "Torque".
if the action movie is good, then sure, why not. right now most of all of the action movies are pretty terrible, where they either rip off hong kong or french guys (one for the fight scenes the other for the car chases) or they combine guns with xtreme sports, which hasn't been cool since James Bond skiied against them russians.
I think action scenes need more wit and creativity.
Quote from: MacGuffinBut if you don't really like those kinds of films and/or the people who do like them, wouldn't that make you a snob also? I don't understand what you "a little disappointed" by; that he/she liked "SWAT" (which I'm assuming you haven't seen) or at your co-worker's mini-review. I think you're asking a lot if you think the casual moviegoer is going to give you a detailed, Roger Ebert analysis-type review, especially on mindless escape movies like "Torque".
i never said i don't like people who don't like good movies. my assistant manager, on the other hand, is an all-around jack-off who
also likes to talk shit about great movies by giving the most idiotic logic. he's the kind of guy that would say black and white movies suck. my other co-worker, on the other hand, is just another guy that hasn't really bothered to go out and experience movies on his own. i was slightly disappointed by his response because
swat doesn't seem interesting to me. it's not like i rolled my eyes at him or told him he shouldn't be watching movies like that. it's just that i like being surprised by people who sometimes say they've seen a movie that i've either been wanting to see or have seen and like it alot. i think just about everybody in the world is like that, whatever preference of movies it is.
and no, i don't look for ebert-esque critiques and expect comments on the cinematography and editing and whatnot. one can still talk about movies without sounding condescending and also not just blab about explosions and hot actresses.
i think its just a case of frustration. I work in college radio and for a couple indie labels and its the same with music. It's not about being a film/music snob, it's about being frustrated at the generel quality level in them and feeling like films/music that do have inherent artistic value are underappreciated and underfunded.
I mean if someone likes SWAT, it's no skin off my back. I like a lot of films most people would find no real value in at all, well no artistic value. A film that someone enjoys for the sheer number of explosions has just as valid a reason to love a movie as someone who likes the subtle interplay of the two characters' super egos and how the time period is juxtaposed with the said characters modern speech, or whatever.
the point i think is that like music and art, films can be good or bad. you can critique something's worth. It's not wrong to like a bad film, i just think people who are able to tell the difference between good and bad are frustrated with the mainstream's ambivalence about quality. and how in our society big budgets and box office draws seem to be synonomous with the public's perception of a film's worth.
you don't have to like a film to know it's a good film, and you don't have to hate bad ones. it's simply about where the value is placed. and i too get frustrated when someone knocks a film or band that is of high quality simply b/c they are not familiar with it/them, and do not possess the ability to differentiate between good and bad.
example: I own a black velvet Kenny Rogers painting I bought at a flea market and a poster of Salvatore Dali's Persistence of Memory. i enjoy both of them, for different reasons. The kenny Rogers painting however is a bad work of art, the Dali is a good one. if someone said to me 'damm that kenny Rogers painting is amazing, but that squiggle thing over there is terrible', i would think they missed the point and be frustrated with it.
couldn't have said it better.
That happened to me coming out of In The Bedroom. I was totally drawn into the world of that family and I felt I had experienced everything they experienced. After it was over some guy behind me made a comment about how nothing happened. I didn't know the guy, he wasn't talking to me, but it felt like a personal affront, like he was attacking me. He went on, "I'm gonna buy the soundtrack!" The more he talked the more I wanted to hit him in the face.
Oh god not that topic again. I didn't read all but I think the point is realizing not everyone bears the same interest we have in movies, and if someguy likes SWAT or anything and you dislike him for that you are the asshole.
It reminds me of the time I told my football loving friends I watched the Superbowl for the ads. They laughed and still invited me to watch it with them. If someguy told you he wants to watch 21 Grams to see Naomi Watts' nipples, you should laugh and bring him along
My previous point was about people being phony, not the taste of people.
Quote from: Pas Rapport
It reminds me of the time I told my football loving friends I watched the Superbowl for the ads. They laughed and still invited me to watch it with them.
sweeet.
Quote from: Duck Saucemy roommate claims Fight Club is an independent movie
Haha..
I used to hang out at this video store in Boston called City Video, and once a wicked hot chick came to apply for the job. On the application she had to list her favorite movies from each genre, under independent movie she put down "indepence day."
There are two types of movies...good and bad. The beauty is that we get to define to ourselves where each film belongs.
Quote from: SHAFTRThere are two types of movies...good and bad. The beauty is that we get to define to ourselves where each film belongs.
We had a great discussion about this recently in one of my classes.
How do we know that something is bad? Do we learn that things are bad, or are some things instinctively bad?
When a baby is first born, does it know that some things
smell bad? Or, does the baby have to learn from it's parent's reactions to the smell?
I take the position that there are certain things that are just plain bad. I suppose we end up with certain biases towards mediums like film and music, but in general I think there are qualities in both that make them good or bad. What they are I can't say. I'm by no means an expert in either. However, when I walk out of a theater, there are times when what I've just seen made a connection and there are times when the work felt like a failure.
I donno.. This is a great philosophy discussion really.
The immediate response by most people is to say, "It's all a matter of opinion" or, "It is entirely subjective".
Is it really?
Quote from: peteI used to hang out at this video store in Boston called City Video, and once a wicked hot chick came to apply for the job. On the application she had to list her favorite movies from each genre, under independent movie she put down "indepence day."
i want to laugh but I'm not sure if i can lol
Quote from: ewardi want to laugh but I'm not sure if i can lol
Ha! You just did.
Quote from: peteOn the application she had to list her favorite movies from each genre, under independent movie she put down "indepence day."
Why are they asking about movie tastes on the application? How much is their hiring based on their choices?
actually here in stinktown they have this indie video store called TLA with a wicked huge selection and on their application they ask fav. director and fav. films and such. i think a big part of it is whether you get the job, because all their employees are super buffs about different types of movies, so if they stock the store with employees who all have different tastes and are really knowledgable about different stuff they have a great store.
Sometimes I get upset if too much happens in a movie. I want more nothingness!
Man, saying that took me back to my goth days.
Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanQuote from: ewardi want to laugh but I'm not sure if i can lol
Ha! You just did.
:lol:
Quote from: themodernage02actually here in stinktown they have this indie video store called TLA with a wicked huge selection and on their application they ask fav. director and fav. films and such. i think a big part of it is whether you get the job, because all their employees are super buffs about different types of movies, so if they stock the store with employees who all have different tastes and are really knowledgable about different stuff they have a great store.
That's what I like. I think I remember reading a while back about Ebert commenting about people working at videos who don't really enjoy movies too much or if they do, just the shitty ones. I can't remember what he said but I was reminded of so many people I know that are like that. I know it makes sense business-wise but I HATE how movie theatres don't give a shit about your taste in movies. Really bugs me to no end.
the theater I worked at had me write a page-long essay on the six most recent movies I'd seen.
Quote from: themodernage02actually here in stinktown they have this indie video store called TLA with a wicked huge selection and on their application they ask fav. director and fav. films and such. i think a big part of it is whether you get the job, because all their employees are super buffs about different types of movies, so if they stock the store with employees who all have different tastes and are really knowledgable about different stuff they have a great store.
that's exactly the kind of store i want [and plan] to own and operate. except i'd call it "cinerama".
Quote from: peteat the cinema I worked I hear this a lot, where uppity people come out of the theater complaining about how the movie was bad because "nothing happened" and then they'll be quick to call it "pretentious" and then assure me that they're cultured people who do like independent/ foreign movies like "crouching tiger hidden dragon"/ "life is beautiful"/ or (!) Bend It Like Beckham.
but what about movies where for real, nothing happened?
reply on Walrus's rant:
it's because people work on a simple rule: when you don't understand something, say it sucks - that way you'll not end up looking stupid, but the other will look stupid. In high school that is almost an epidemic - the rule is not to be the last person to say something is stupid.
In artistic circles when people don't understand sth, they say it's art, and they watch carefully not to be the last one to say that, cause it looks like they 're just saying that because somebody else already did/has.
And yes, nobody can be smarter then THEM, only Einstein, but he was so smart and look how that brains helped him - his dead now.
For me, in all the best films, nothing really "happens." They're all about the characters, and what happens is so secondary, and almost inconsequential. That is, it's not about plot, but about character for me. I guess this is a troubling point for some, and I've found that most people do indeed like to read stories where "stuff happens," even professors I've had who emphasize the importance of plot.
modage, where's your super-cool avatar from?
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaFor me, in all the best films, nothing really "happens." They're all about the characters, and what happens is so secondary, and almost inconsequential. That is, it's not about plot, but about character for me. I guess this is a troubling point for some, and I've found that most people do indeed like to read stories where "stuff happens," even professors I've had who emphasize the importance of plot.
Are you some sort of snob?
Character developement is a major portion of a movie....but how can there be character development without any plot? The only movie that comes to mind that had almost no plot is Waking Life, and even towards the end a plot starts coming out. If you refer to a plot that has no clear motive, i might just agree. Lost in Translation just drifts from one vignette to the next and for a while it seems like we don't really know how long Bob has been in Japan, and we never really find out that for Scarlett's character. People say Big Lebowski has no plot, which I don't really understand. Maybe my definition of a 'plot' is confused.
Quote from: Chest RockwellPeople say Big Lebowski has no plot, which I don't really understand. Maybe my definition of a 'plot' is confused.
umm no i think their definition is confused........
Quote from: Onomatopoeiamodage, where's your super-cool avatar from?
its neons fav. k. dunst and mark ruffalo in eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.
McKee says "Not Rules, Principles. A rule says 'you must do this way' a principle says 'this works, and has worked through all remembered time' "
greetings from Amsterdam ,btw.
Quote from: Chest RockwellQuote from: OnomatopoeiaFor me, in all the best films, nothing really "happens." They're all about the characters, and what happens is so secondary, and almost inconsequential. That is, it's not about plot, but about character for me. I guess this is a troubling point for some, and I've found that most people do indeed like to read stories where "stuff happens," even professors I've had who emphasize the importance of plot.
Are you some sort of snob?
Character developement is a major portion of a movie....but how can there be character development without any plot? The only movie that comes to mind that had almost no plot is Waking Life, and even towards the end a plot starts coming out. If you refer to a plot that has no clear motive, i might just agree. Lost in Translation just drifts from one vignette to the next and for a while it seems like we don't really know how long Bob has been in Japan, and we never really find out that for Scarlett's character. People say Big Lebowski has no plot, which I don't really understand. Maybe my definition of a 'plot' is confused.
I don't understand how you can extract "snob" just because someone values character development over plot development.
Ok, pete, you're right again. I seem to be in a harsh mood today. I now apologize for any offense I give at any point in time today. And sorry Onomatopeia, the snob comment was unnecessary.
well, first of all, thanks for taking in my words. sorry about your harsh mood man, hope things look shinier for you from now on. stay cool dude.
I guess I could be considered a snob in some ways. But I tell ya, I like a lot more fun movies than "classics" than your average snob, that's for sure. And you could find a lot more evidence to indict me than the fact that I prefer character over plot. That's hardly snobby. For me, most action movies are boring. They are all about plot. Formula movies are boring. You know the type: the Hollywood stuff with the saccharin music that attempts to move you, while the character explain exactly where things are going through dialogue, and the plot is always clear. So if I'm a snob for hating stuff like that, so be it. But take School of Rock, for example. That's one of my favorite movies of the year. The plot, though, is paper-thin, but that's not even the point, because the film is bursting with great characters, and that's what makes it work so well.
I see what you're saying, Ono. The whole idea of a 'plot' is what's confusing me. I seem to think of a plot in the traditional sense: just the simple story. So logically all movies must have plots, besides those art-to-the-max movies like "The Cure for Insomnia." Everyone else seems to consider a plot to be more complicated than I think it to be. Sorry about the comment though. I was terribly out-of-line with that. Glad you didn't take it roughly or anything. But I still say there can't be any character development (though that doesn't seem to really be what's being discussed here) without a plot to mature the characters in some way.
I always thought plot differs from "story" in that plot deals with how the story unfolds (how it's "plotted") thus the term. Either way, isn't there a very very general stereotype on how American movies are plot-driven and European movies are character driven? American movies, like Three Kings for example--George Clooney wants one thing, sees something awful outside of his control that happens (that's a "plot point") and it forces him to act accordingly. While a movie like Amelie, you have a girl who does things driven first by her loneliness then by her good will.
but these are very general stereotypes obviously that was bequeated to us from like 40 years ago. I just pull it out to illustrate how plot doesn't have to drive a film.
After reading his reviews, the most ironic thing i've ever seen is this guy's URL,
http://www.moviereviewsthatdontsuck.com/rr/Lost_In_Translation-rr416989-.html
check out that review for Lost in translation, a really good (bad) example of this thread's title.
Quote from: ProgWRXAfter reading his reviews, the most ironic thing i've ever seen is this guy's URL,
http://www.moviereviewsthatdontsuck.com/rr/Lost_In_Translation-rr416989-.html
check out that review for Lost in translation, a really good (bad) example of this thread's title.
I don't know whether to be amused or annoyed.
i thought it was wierd how he seemed to be making fun of the fact that other americans were at the hotel.
What can one say about that review. I have come across a lot of reviews of Lost in Translation that either miss the story in the film or seem to be aggravated and angered by said story. I don't know if anyone here is familiar witht he singer Momus (www.imomus.com) but he dislikes it b/c he views it as exploitative to japan and the indie photography music scene that rabisi is involved in. It's an insightful review but once again I think those things irrelevent. the film could have been set in Thailand, Siberia, or anywhere as long as it was alien to the main characters. There seems to be a lot of animosity surrounding smaller movies when they recieve acclaim or attention.
I don't mind bad reviews for movies I like or vice versa aslong as I can see their point. Even when I disagree with Ebert, I see what he is saying. This guy is a clownshoe.