The trouble with story...

[©brad]

A well-developed structure is key to a good story. Sorry for the beginning scriptwriting cliches, but any writing teacher will tell u they are essential and can really help.

First off, the best thing to do when u are having trouble with writing is to put it away for a day or two. Staying up late every night constantly rewriting can lead to mixed results. U know when u stay up really late writing something u are sure is a masterpiece only to wake up the next day to find endless pages of mindless drivel? Yeah, well sometimes u need to take a break to get a fresh look at ur stuff. Once you've done that ask yourself these 4 questions-

1. Who's story is it?
2. What do they want?
3. Who/what is stopping them?
4. Why should we care?

If you can answer those four questions well, then u should be on the right track structure wise.
Also, remember that dialogue does not make a movie. This is something I had trouble with when I first started writing. The cool Tarantino dialogue may be okay for character and its okay to have, but it won't drive a story all by itself. Dialogue is just the icing on a cake. Try writing little short scenes of no more than 7 or 8 pages with little to no dialogue, concentrating more on visuals and telling a story with pictures, which is what a movie is.

[Newtron]

direct televison commercials and music videos -- pure visual emotion -- no story.

 

You don't need a story before you make a movie, but I think all movies will inevitably make their own stories.

I will miss you when you leave.

[budgie]

I will miss you when you leave.

:lying: :fadein:

[EL__SCORCHO]

Once you've done that ask yourself these 4 questions-

1. Who's story is it?
2. What do they want?
3. Who/what is stopping them?
4. Why should we care?

I think you can sum up those 4 points by simply saying : conflict. Every single scene has to have conflict. Like you said- what do they want , their a goal, who is stopping them from getting their goal. Pure and simple, conflict.

If you write a script where the protagonist is consistenly conflicted by believable antagonists (doesnt have to be a person) and takes believable steps to get his goal , I think for the most part the reader will care.

[ReelHotGames]

Also, remember that dialogue does not make a movie.

Also remember that dialogue may not make a movie but can KILL a movie.

The worst part of EVERY script I have read has ALWAYS without a doubt been the dialogue. I think this is where most writers have trouble and this is where great writers and good writers part ways.

Go to Project Greenlight or Triggerstreet or other script sites, read some scripts, I have read soooooooooooooo many with what promises to be a good story and the dialogue grates on me so badly it aches, because there are some great stories out there being ruined by grade schooler dialogue.

Those who can write great dialogue, hence strong characters, have a hand up at a good film, because "story" can be as simple (and often is) as boy meets girl, girl can't stand boy, series of mishaps, boy and girl fall in love. Name that movie - it's every other film ever made, and yet it's Annie Hall, it's Sleepless in Seattle, it's Punch Drunk Love it's so many others where the story is driven by the characters and what they say and MORE IMPORTANTLY what they DON't SAY! I hate reading scripts where charcaters become villains from James Bond stories and have to tell the audience what is going on - WE'RE WATCHING THE MOVIE FOR GOD'S SAKE WE CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON - dialogue should emote feelings, hide truths and spin lies, it should be what we say, and what we mean, what we want to say, what we stammer out, what we wished we'd said and mutter to ourselves minutes afterward, what we scream in anger, what we whisper in moments of passion, all the things that are soft and subtle, all the hateful things we don't mean. Dialogue is POWER. As much as visuals and more. A single line spoken during a tense moment uttered out of nervousness, that "eep" as the killer is behind the stairs. Dialogue in it's entirity, whether it be monologues, or whether it be to words spoken after an hour of silence, they better be the right two words.

So endeth the soap box rant.

[chainsmoking insomniac]

Also, remember that dialogue does not make a movie.

Also remember that dialogue may not make a movie but can KILL a movie.

The worst part of EVERY script I have read has ALWAYS without a doubt been the dialogue. I think this is where most writers have trouble and this is where great writers and good writers part ways.

Go to Project Greenlight or Triggerstreet or other script sites, read some scripts, I have read soooooooooooooo many with what promises to be a good story and the dialogue grates on me so badly it aches, because there are some great stories out there being ruined by grade schooler dialogue.

Those who can write great dialogue, hence strong characters, have a hand up at a good film, because "story" can be as simple (and often is) as boy meets girl, girl can't stand boy, series of mishaps, boy and girl fall in love. Name that movie - it's every other film ever made, and yet it's Annie Hall, it's Sleepless in Seattle, it's Punch Drunk Love it's so many others where the story is driven by the characters and what they say and MORE IMPORTANTLY what they DON't SAY! I hate reading scripts where charcaters become villains from James Bond stories and have to tell the audience what is going on - WE'RE WATCHING THE MOVIE FOR GOD'S SAKE WE CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON - dialogue should emote feelings, hide truths and spin lies, it should be what we say, and what we mean, what we want to say, what we stammer out, what we wished we'd said and mutter to ourselves minutes afterward, what we scream in anger, what we whisper in moments of passion, all the things that are soft and subtle, all the hateful things we don't mean. Dialogue is POWER. As much as visuals and more. A single line spoken during a tense moment uttered out of nervousness, that "eep" as the killer is behind the stairs. Dialogue in it's entirity, whether it be monologues, or whether it be to words spoken after an hour of silence, they better be the right two words.

So endeth the soap box rant.

That was fucking perfect man.  Dialogue has to strike a chord with the audience, make 'em wince or draw their blood...
And personally, I've always liked what P.T. Anderson said in the director's commentary of Hard Eight: "If you get two characters talking to each other, one will lead the other to where you want to go...."
I might have butchered that quote, but you get the idea--WRITE! Fuck the internal editor.  It's only a first draft.  Critizise yourself later, but for now WRITE!!!

[ReelHotGames]

That was fucking perfect man.

May I use that quote everywhere I go from now on? I may have it printed on t-shirts.

Thanks for the props.  

[Teddy]

This is some great advise.  I just started writing a short film that is more a portrait of myself than anything.  Everything that I've expirianced in the past couple of months I'm pouring out on paper, and it's actually shaping up to be something meaningful, and not just to me.  I don't know if anyone will actually get what I'm trying to convey, but I am trying.  And now, at least for this film, if they don't get it, I don't care.  This film is for me.

[Jon]

That was a really nice rant, Michael.

[ono]

Do any of you ever find yourselves bound by the confines of having to tell a story.  I see so much and feel so much that I want to convey to an audiance, but to do it I have to have an interesting and entertaining story.  It's like story is a necessary evil.  I need a story so that I can have an audiance, and then I can say what I really want to say, and this may or may not have anything to do with the story I'm trying to tell.  I want to make films about pure emotions, moments that jump off the screen and connect, but to do this you MUST have a good story.  I ALWAYS have images and dialoge in my head, but never in the context of a story.  Do any of you feel the same way?

Watch Un chien andalou and you'll never feel that way again.  Heck, watch Mulholland Drive and you'll realize that sometimes stories can be secondary to emotions that a movie conveys.  It's all about what your intent is, and as long as that is strong, and you stick with it, the film should turn out fine.

[SoNowThen]

But sometimes the confines of genre expectations in a really tight story can give the mind a perfect place to let loose as those emotions and ideas in I guess what could be called a subversive way. It's kinda like this goofy analogy: you put an animal in a pen, and it can't run away, but it can do whatever it wants in the confine of it's pen. So that "necessary evil" of story becomes a machine that focuses your work. So many inexperienced writers (and I mean that not in a negative way) have grand ambitions, and wanna do everything in one telling, and the work becomes an unfocused mishmash of all the movies they liked from the last ten years. Now I'm all for ripping stuff off, but we'd all be better off having to use cliches, and forcing ourselves to think of new ways to view them, and make them pleasing not only to ourselves, but to an audience. Then, once we're comfortable with that, continue pushing boundaries from film to film, until you have loosed yourself from the commercial narrative, and people want to go see your films because they are "your style" and that becomes the selling feature. Too many wannabe artists try to be avant garde just for the sake of being it, rather than doing the work to master narrative.

Whew. That was a mouthful. All that being said, I feel your pain. Everytime I write something new, this racks my mind.

[SoNowThen]

Oh, and what Michael said about dialogue, so true. But of equal importance is the casting, because no matter how good your dialogue is, an actor can fuck it up. And then the lighting, because no matter how good your actors are, the visuals are gonna carry the effect of the story. And then of course the editing, and the sound..... aarrgghhh. Isn't it wonderful that to make a good movie script work, everything, absolutely everything must be pitch perfect. And yet it never can be. Fun.

[pokka]

Talk = cheap.
Stop making excuses and make a film.

[Cecil]

Talk = cheap.

talk costs alot of money up here in canada. this is why we just write down what wed like to say and give the paper to the person wed like to say it too. its a very slow and painful process, but quite funny when watching people arguing.

you americans always have to flaunt your better economy, dont you?