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Film Discussion => The Vault => Topic started by: MacGuffin on July 08, 2005, 03:50:41 PM

Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: MacGuffin on July 08, 2005, 03:50:41 PM
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fus.movies1.yimg.com%2Fmovies.yahoo.com%2Fimages%2Fhv%2Fphoto%2Fmovie_pix%2Flions_gate_films%2Fgrizzly_man%2Fgrizzlyman_bigrelease.jpg&hash=477ec87c8488e67fc203e454dcacb0c981dc8666)

Trailer here. (http://mp3content01.bcst.yahoo.com/b02r01/005/yahoomovies/11/16723851.mov)

Release Date: August 5th, 2005 (LA/NY); expands to other cities at later dates

Director: Werner Herzog

Premise: A devastating and heart-wrenching take on grizzly bear activists Timothy Treadwell and Amie Huguenard, who were killed in October of 2003 while living among grizzlies in Alaska.

Genre: Documentary
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: mutinyco on July 16, 2005, 08:26:39 PM
Pretty brilliant.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on July 16, 2005, 09:33:08 PM
i've been trying to think of how to phrase it, that if u replace the subject of bears with "herzog's vision of cinema" then he becomes the grizzly man. dude defies boundaries like it's his job, and it will probably kill him in the end. like, is he broke or what??
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: mogwai on July 17, 2005, 03:13:28 AM
Quote from: MacGuffinTimothy Treadwell
what a moron.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Myxo on July 20, 2005, 01:00:15 PM
Some of the footage from the trailer looks like he wasn't respecting the natural boundaries of those animals. My grandfather lives in Wrangell, Alaska. He says every year two or three people die from Grizzly attacks. It's one thing to seek protection for the animals, but it's quite another to expect them not to eat you.

They're not smart, like apes.

Bear gets hungry. Bear eats activist.
Bears gets mad. Bear eats activist.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: GoneSavage on July 20, 2005, 01:43:01 PM
I will definitely be seeing this.  I need more documentaries about animals in the theatre.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on July 20, 2005, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: GoneSavageI need more documentaries about animals in the theatre.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy154%2Fpubrick%2Fchipmunksgotomovieslogo.jpg&hash=e2b7817986b98c2d9510d7dda7e0c331ef3fea99)
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: polkablues on July 20, 2005, 02:11:17 PM
Quote from: Pubrick
Quote from: GoneSavageI need more documentaries about animals in the theatre.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy154%2Fpubrick%2Fchipmunksgotomovieslogo.jpg&hash=e2b7817986b98c2d9510d7dda7e0c331ef3fea99)

But that was only a faux documentary, like "Spinal Tap" or "Waiting for Guffman".  Theodore in particular had a difficult time hiding his classical acting roots.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: GoneSavage on July 20, 2005, 02:48:57 PM
Sweet.  I'm gonna Netflix the shit out of that.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: mutinyco on July 28, 2005, 12:59:59 AM
Here ya go: http://www.moviecitynews.com/columnists/mutiny/grizzly_man.html
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Ultrahip on July 31, 2005, 08:11:17 PM
anybody know what that hooo-yip, hooo-yip, hooooo song is?

grazie.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: MacGuffin on August 09, 2005, 02:08:12 PM
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsuicidegirls.com%2Fmedia%2Fauthors%2F1660%2Farticle.jpg&hash=836f9c6196987ae6a3d02a467f94c80819c0191a)

Across the line of death one of the greatest filmmakers ever, Werner Herzog, and one of the nuttiest nature gazers ever, Timothy Treadwell, have connected. in October of 2003 Treadwell was killed in Alaska by a grizzly bear. Treadwell had spent 13 summers in an Alaskan national park befriending wild grizzly bears and making hundreds of hours of video. Soon after his death Herzog became aware of Treadwell and his footage and using new interviews created a documentary showing there are some lines that human beings just shouldn’t cross.

Werner Herzog: Who are you writing this for?

Daniel Robert Epstein: It’s a website called SuicideGirls. It's kind of like Playboy for punk girls.

WH: That's a good title for a magazine.

DRE: I heard that you yourself were actually following grizzlies this past year.

WH: No but I spent two years in Alaska many years ago with my first born son, who was 14. We celebrated the end of his childhood and set out without even a tent. We built ourselves a place to sleep and we had some basic foodstuff like salt, rice and noodles so we wouldn't starve. The pilot left us at the lake and picked us up eight weeks later.

DRE: So it’s like his Bar Mitzvah?

WH: In some sense, probably yes. But what was not like a Bar Mitzvah was that we liked it so much we repeated it next year. You do not repeat a Bar Mitzvah.

DRE: One of the most interesting things about this film that you as the narrator sometimes don’t agree with Tim Treadwell. I read that you feel he is putting the animals through a Disneyfication.

WH: There's an ongoing argument with him. I think that brings a lot of life into the movie and of course I could not agree with the kind of Disneyization of wild nature and the kind of sentimentalized view. I'm not into that. I don't see any harmony in the universe. I think it's rather chaotic and hostile and that's about it.

DRE: Once he deviated from the thing he usually did and went back to the park at the wrong time. There were bears that he didn't know.

WH: We do not know. I think he could have been killed anytime. The danger of being in the presence of grizzly bears is not as high as you think. That's a sort of the demonization of the wild grizzly. Statistics tells us that since 1903, not more than 12 or 14 people got killed by grizzlies and many more were killed by moose.

DRE: Moose are crazy.

WH: And about 800 times more Americans lost their lives after being stung by a wasp. The dangerous bears are the polar bears. So when you meet the polar bear and you're on some ice shelf, you better have a high powered rifle with you or a helicopter that lifts you out of danger. They go after your meat right away because they hunt human sized mammals like seals and walrus.

DRE: Timothy was obviously at some point in the future, planning on doing something with this footage. Whether he would be able to, it's questionable. Besides doing what you did, would an editor have been able to do something with all of his footage?

WH: They probably would have come out with something that was maybe a series of films or one big film. I saw a one hour show Timothy made himself, where he's Prince Valiant protecting the bears against the evil poachers. You see bears and bear cubs that are very cute and fluffy and fishing for salmon. I think it was very fortunate that Treadwell and I somehow met even though he was already dead because I saw something hidden in the footage that probably wouldn't have been filmed ever, but I can't speculate. We were both lucky we ran into each other.

DRE: It's very easy to see why you and him connect. In another lifetime, maybe you could have been him if you were born in America, near Orlando, Florida.

WH: Had I been born in Orlando, Florida, my career would probably would have ended at 21 as a failed bank robber.

DRE: But Timothy was an adventurer and that is what you are.

WH: No, wrong. I cannot stand the notion of adventure in our time. Adventure ended in the very early 20th century, probably in the late 19th century, when there was an unknown world still to be discovered. Where there was still terra incognita, where you were alone and didn't have a cell phone on you to make contact and call for Mom if you were in trouble. The notion of adventure is deep and inherent in humankind, but of course it got lost when the world was explored to its last corners. To see how much it degenerated is the fact you can book an adventure trip now to New Guinea to see the “headhunters” and the "cannibals".

I believe that adventure ended with a silly quest, a totally degenerate idea of being the first one at the North and South Poles. That's when it changed over into something ridiculous. So don't call me an adventurer. It's a shameful sort of attribute. Let's say in 1905, you were at a big party on Central Park East. The ladies were coming around you because you told them that you killed five bull elephants in East Africa and you've got these huge tusk trophies. You would be the center of attention and the females would converge around you. Today if I was at a party and I said that I shot five bull elephants, the first young woman would throw her drink in my face or slap me. You see what I am trying to say? So don't call me an adventurer, I'm not into that.

DRE: I think James Cameron wants to be the first filmmaker to shoot a film in outer space.

WH: Which I would like to do myself and actually, right off the Grizzly Man, I made a science fiction film which was shot in outer space. It was in the vicinity of our planet with real astronauts and with a real mission. Of course I shot on a planet and that's the title, The Wild Blue Yonder. I'm floating on a planet which is very beautiful because the skies and clouds are completely frozen and the astronauts are drifting and floating around liquid helium.

DRE: That's a very nice thought.

WH: Just wait for that one. [laughs]

DRE: I've spoken to Zak Penn recently when Incident at Loch Ness was released and he is just great. Are you doing the poker movie together?

WH: If I am free because right now I'm preparing a feature film called Rescue Dawn in Thailand. If I'm not shooting at that time, I will probably be a part of it.

DRE: So when you have dinner parties does Crispin Glover really come over?

WH: I don't have dinner parties. I invite people with whom I want to spend the evening and I cook. I have two or three persons maximum.

DRE: So Crispin Glover doesn't show up that often to your house?

WH: No, but I paid him a visit a fortnight or so ago at his house. It was a very good talk and enjoyed it tremendously.

DRE: What's the soccer feature that you're going to be doing?

WH: I have not heard about it. Some people approached me to do something, and I declined the offer, but I don't even remember what exactly it was. It took me five minutes to decline and then somebody over the internet claimed that I was doing a film on soccer. So you better not trust the internet.

DRE: Is Rescue Dawn exactly based on your documentary, Little Dieter Needs to Fly?

WH: Yes, to some extent. But I cannot claim that I am doing it until we start. Always in this profession, there are bumps in the road and things might unravel a day before I start shooting.

DRE: What sold you on having Christian Bale star in Rescue Dawn?

WH: I find him one of the greatest talents of his generation and we made up our own minds long before he did Batman.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Myxo on August 12, 2005, 07:56:23 AM
I watched a news story about this guy on CBS last night.

Apparently when he was killed by a rogue grizzly, this guy had his camera switched on but the lens cap was still in place. Only Herzog and two other people have ever heard the audio from the attack but it was enough to bring Herzog to tears. The lady in possession of the tape who allowed Herzog to hear it has never listened to the tape herself. Herzog says to her (after just listening to the tape and sobbing), "You should never listen to this." Basically the CBS story revolved around this guy as a failed actor turned enviromentalist loon.

I'm definetly going to see this when it is in Portland.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: mutinyco on August 12, 2005, 12:02:17 PM
Uh... ABC...
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Myxo on August 12, 2005, 02:13:54 PM
Quote from: mutinycoUh... ABC...
Damn! I always mess up some mundane detail!
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: pete on August 13, 2005, 04:35:00 PM
just saw it.  incredibly powerful, but you have to be a fan of herzog or at least know his persona before going into the film because herzog as a narrator interjectes a lot and says a lot of bleak Herzogian things, which prompted the theater to laugh out loud a few times ("I believe the universe if full of chaos and murder"...etc.) and sometimes he can be a little stern, but that's just Herzog and that's why we love him.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pwaybloe on August 15, 2005, 09:04:06 AM
"I beleef dee universe is full oft chaos ant meerder"
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Sal on August 27, 2005, 08:34:56 PM
One of these:  :yabbse-thumbdown:

Not because the film was poor, but because I really disliked the "grizzly man." What a nut.  It's hard to sympathize with him, so you just watch him in fascination and disconnect like it's a zoo animal.  But zoo animals are generally more interesting than this guy, who with a few key exceptions, is just a weird burn out running around the wilderness proclaiming his love for the animals.  That we couldn't listen to his death from the audio tape is perhaps less a promise for him than it is for the mysterious woman he was with that day.  Hearing his demise would have satisfied me more than anything else - like a man said in the film, he deserved what he got.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Alethia on August 28, 2005, 12:13:54 PM
Quote from: SalHearing his demise would have satisfied me more than anything else

that's kind of sick.      he was a human being, after all.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on August 28, 2005, 12:44:01 PM
Quote from: ewardhe was a human being, after all.
try telling him that. (if he were alive)
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Myxo on August 30, 2005, 05:47:07 AM
I finally saw this tonight and thought it was great. Herzog does a great job honoring the life of Treadwell with passion, while portraying him as someone with a great deal of arrogance.

SPOILER

Sadly, he probably would have survived many more adventures if he hadn't gotten greedy in the end. All it took was overstaying his welcome late into the season and that was it.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Alethia on August 30, 2005, 12:54:49 PM
i loved it.  

the scenes where his ex-girlfriend (the woman with the tape) would just go on and on reminiscing about him were endlessly moving.  her speech patterns and the kind of far out look in her eyes are very haunting to me, i don't know why.  watching her face as herzog listened to the tape really shook me up.

SPOILERS

another moment with her that i wont forget: when herzog asks her if sometimes she feels like timothy's widow and she kind of laughs and exclaims " do i think of myself as his widow?!" as if it was the most ridiculous question he could ask, and almost immediately she warms to the idea and starts to go on and on about how, sometimes, she does indeed feel like his widow...

and yeah, treadwell was interesting too......
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: kotte on September 01, 2005, 06:35:59 AM
Tell me, what's the song at the end of the trailer...?
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on September 01, 2005, 07:42:33 AM
Quote from: kotteTell me, what's the song at the end of the trailer...?
coyotes by don edwards
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: SHAFTR on September 03, 2005, 03:58:03 AM
I liked it a lot and would say it is one of the top 3 films of the year thus far.  It's also my first Herzog film (where do I go from here?).  

It's a critical view of Treadwell.  You may either love, hate or feel neutral about him...either way, he is a compelling human being and character.  Also interesting is not just Treadwell, but all the other bizzare people in the film.  I don't know what it is but everyone seemed a little off.

I also love how the documentary also works as a love of cinema.  I was consistently reminded of Bazin's feelings of cinema...the fact that it has an essence.  

My only complaint is that it sometimes feels a little long.  I thought it should have ended a few minutes earlier.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Alethia on September 03, 2005, 03:42:39 PM
Quote from: SHAFTRIt's also my first Herzog film (where do I go from here?).  

stroszek, land of silence and darkness, great ecstacy of woodcarver steiner, aguirre: the wrath of god, fitzcarraldo, heart of glass, little dieter needs to fly, lessons of darkness (and fata morgana) and cobra verde are a couple of ones you should check out initially
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: modage on September 03, 2005, 09:37:15 PM
skip nosferatu. (https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websmileys.com%2Fsm%2Fsleep%2Fschla03.gif&hash=5c11d6c3a2c0b5ed26fa6de180d1c4838b407d10)
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Alethia on September 03, 2005, 10:02:08 PM
at least see it kinda last...
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on September 03, 2005, 10:04:44 PM
aww, i was gonna see it kinda second or third....  :oops:
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on September 04, 2005, 01:31:00 AM
just see it kinda.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: w/o horse on September 04, 2005, 02:18:45 AM
This movie was like a conversation between me, god, Herzog, and humanity.  Except god is only talking to Herzog, humanity is doing most of the talking, and I'm just listening.  Look, I laughed my ass off at the guy, okay, I laughed at him first when his hat got stolen by the fox and I kept laughing at him all the way through.  But I always felt for him.  Herzog brilliantly walked the line with Treadwell as far as I'm concerned, because every time I'm laughing, or rolling my eyes (his view on gays and Hindu gods, examples), I'm understanding his condition, I'm understanding his flaws and some of them seem so familiar and some of them seem so creepy and seem of them seem so farfetched, but they all feel human.  And Pubrick said it back further, but Treadwell's is the bear, and Herzog's is cinema, and mine is cinema, and I try to be in those Alaskan woods, I try all the time.

No movie has ever made me feel like this one did.  I'm not trying to be hyperbolic here, the movie isn't my favorite, even my favorite of this year, but it was clearly a Herzog film, and it was effective at pulling emotion out of me.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Alethia on September 04, 2005, 12:01:48 PM
Quote from: ranemaka13aww, i was gonna see it kinda second or third....  :oops:

watch murnau's then herzog's!
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on September 04, 2005, 01:34:44 PM
I was planning on watching them back to back, actually.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: abuck1220 on September 17, 2005, 11:15:12 PM
it's funny how people have different opinions of treadwell.

my wife didn't have anything against him because he had finally found something that made him feel like his life was worthwhile...even though his 'efforts' didn't, in reality, amount to a bit of good. but, hey, if he wouldn't have found the bears, he probably would have drank himself to death or od'ed on herion or something. it's rare that you find something to feel that passionate about, and even if it ends up killing you, at least you had something for a while.

i, on the other hand, found him to be the most persistent, dedicated poser i've ever seen. he said all this stuff about how he loved the bears, wanted to protect them, would die for them, whatever...and i felt like he was full of shit. there were several times where i felt he was not at all geniune and that this whole thing was some kind of fucked up, elaborate home movie/scam that he did to entertain himself and gain publicity. i felt like 'living with bears' was his trucker hat/poker fascination/whatever people think is cool right now. he was just really, really, really dedicated to his trucker hat.

either way, i figure he's a pretty fascinating guy.

then my wife said i was cynical and judgmental.

also, if i didn't know this was real, i would have thought that this whole thing was an elaborate blair witchesque hoax by herzog. some of the interviewees seemed like actors.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: Myxo on September 18, 2005, 06:45:38 AM
Quote from: abuck1220either way, i figure he's a pretty fascinating guy.

then my wife said i was cynical and judgmental.

You're right on both counts and that's not a bad thing.

Whatever good intentions he had to start out with ended up being more about him than the bears.
Title: Grizzly Man
Post by: RegularKarate on September 18, 2005, 12:27:37 PM
I don't think that's it though.  I think he truly believed that the bears held some mystical quality and he TRULY wanted to help them, but he really didn't know enough about bears to actually do anything good for them.  He doesn't understand them... he's not a scientist of any sort... and he's really just fucking up the ecosystem by doing what he's doing.

I think the reason people think he's insincere is because he's an actor and he acts on camera.  That doesn't mean he's not sincere, he's just trying to juice up the show he seems to think one day will be watched by children in mental institutions everywhere.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Gamblour. on December 22, 2005, 06:27:08 PM
So yeah I watched this, trying to finish out the films I need to see this year. Man, so many thoughts. At the same time, all these people were characters and it even felt like a mockumentary, like the scene with the wrist watch, or the bit about losing to Woody Harrelson. I watched it with two friends, one of whom is big on animals. we all kinda came to the same conclusion that the guy clearly knows no science about bears, but knows a lot about their intuitions, which I found really fascinating that he understood their behavior and their response to stimuli. My other friend called him an egomaniac, which I guess is true, but if you're the woods by yourself, does your ego make a sound? anyhow, I might want to watch it again, because it's so outrageous and you feel for this guy yet you want to call him crazy. I don't think he's crazy, just very passionate. And that mustached guy and whoever said it on here that said he deserved to be eaten alive by a bear is a fucking asshole. that's like saying a electrician deserves to be electrocuted or that a cop deserves to be shot. They all do things that put them in certain harm's way, Treadwell more than others. Treadwell knew he was risking his life, he said so about twenty times from what we saw. He was searching for a life and enlightenment and he found it and died for it, and that's admirable to me. Living doesn't have to be your standards, it's got to be the individual's.

This too was my first Herzog, so I'm still dealing with how strangely humorous some things were, not the narration but the juxtaposition of things. Also, I think the film is very simple and basic with complex passages of authorial interruption. Overall, the man and his character transcend the film, and I did like Herzog's opinion, because he was using his voice, not the footage to manipulate the audience, and at least there's that separation. I think I liked it, but we'll see if it makes my top ten. I dunno yet.

Edit: fuck, I don't think I saw the full version of this film. Is there a segment with David Letterman?
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: squints on December 27, 2005, 10:40:44 PM
I had the same feeling watching this movie as i had watching Gates of Heaven except it was stronger and i felt  more. such an awesome amazing movie
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: decemberlove on December 29, 2005, 02:28:09 AM
I sat through this shit last night, now I demand to hear the tape. I deserve some type of reward for not getting up and shutting it off.

I didn't find Treadwell to be nearly as annoying as his ex-girlfriend, or nearly as creepy as the coroner. Herzog reminds me of the weird old men who perv at me all the time. Everyone in this "documentary" seemed to be overacting. What was with that line about the cows screaming or whatever from Treadwell's old "friend"? Or Herzog's line about a metaphor for his soul? Or the psycho ex's potpourri mix of death? Weird.

More of the bears. Less of the attention whores.


Oh well, I haven't laughed so much since Wedding Crashers.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Anonymous Joe on December 29, 2005, 03:42:09 AM
You would want to hear someones death, someone being eating alive?
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Gamblour. on December 29, 2005, 02:50:39 PM
decemberlove, was this your first herzog?
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: JG on December 29, 2005, 03:00:05 PM
Is that at your local best buy?  I'm thinking of buying this, even though I haven't seen it yet and it would be my first Herzog. 
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Alexandro on December 29, 2005, 05:09:53 PM
really powerfull experience. it made me look into my own soul. the most disturbing and at the same time wonderful about this movie is that treadwell is just another human being. we can't help it, he can't help it. he acts like a bear but can't help to  have the most human reaction when in desperation asks God to send some rain. I saw myself on that moment so clearly, cause who hasn't done that? And who has not reduced the complexities of life to simple, solvable little problems??

This movie covers so much ground and in such a way that for me it was more of a spritual experience than just watching a movie.

SPOILERS (?)
I didn't know there was no tape recording of him being eaten alive so for like the first 40 minutes or something I was about to have a nervous breackdown just with the tought that they were gonna show it. Everytime he appeared with bears I thought "this is it". Then when they said that wasn't gonna happen (including the audio tape) instead of feeling cheated or unsatisfied I truly felt reliefed.  
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: ShanghaiOrange on February 01, 2006, 08:15:23 PM
For anyone who hasn't seen this yet, they're playing it on Discovery this friday at 8 (check your local listings).
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Reinhold on February 04, 2006, 01:14:23 AM
i thought it was good.

i thought that treadwell was clearly a little crazy, and clearly had an addictive personality. and i think his ex-girlfriend was an attention whore. it's really unfortunate that his girlfriend at the time of his death got eaten with him. she was just along for some seemingly cool ride that was more than she bargained for, even before they decided to stay longer and ended up being killed.

i think that he was a good guy with great intentions who became delusional. not unlike michael jackson in a sense. he lost grasp of what's harmful and what isn't, what's part of his fantasy and what's part of the tangible world. i think he had a lot of love to give-- whether it was from being a recovering acloholic, a fanatic, or just a loving person... i think he was an unstable guy trying to do a very good thing.

the most revealing part of the documentary, to me, wasn't the rant or any part in which he talked to himself-- cut him a break... he was alone in the woods for a long time, and he thought he'd be alive to edit the footage himself. 

SPOILERS

what i found most revealing was the part in which he refused to acknowledge that wild creatures killing other wild creatures (even babies) is what sometimes happens in nature. he'd come to believe that humans were the only thing that caused pain, and seeing otherwise was shattering to him. it was like a kid figuring out that santa isn't real. in addition to having to confront that individual piece of unpleasant information-- his whole mode of trusting the world was shaken.

he kept saying that he'd die for the bears, but clearly he never believed that a bear would take his life. he had come to believe that they were rational beings who make an emotionally motivated decision as to whether or not to kill. when he said that sort of thing, he probably had some romantic vision of getting between a poacher/park ranger and a bear and taking a bullet to save the bear's life. he imagined a mutual understanding and respect that he expected to shield him from harm.

also, i don't think that he was too far off when he interpreted the happy face thing as a coy threat. it was the wilderness equivalent to somebody calling your cell phone from outside your house at night and saying, "i see you." it was genuine concern for the bears--regardless of the fact that he transferred his addiction from alcohol to bears-- that drove what he did. he was cramping the poacher's style, and they wanted to tell him that that wasn't cool. clearly, they were trying to scare him into not bugging them next year.


i think that, in many ways, the bear that ate him killed a child in a man's body. it's this layman's theory that he reverted to childhood modes of escape to deal with his demons. the bears were as much imaginary friends as they were real beasts that were capable of killing him.  watch him repeatedly try to touch the bears as he talks to them. it's like a child imagining that a stray doberman in the neighborhood is a kind-hearted unicorn to ride.  ... watch him hesitate in the last frame of his documentary. it's like a little kid lingering in the playground while his mother is calling him to come in for dinner.

it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that he thought he was some sort of peter pan taking wendy to neverland to live forever. when it didn't work out that way, he, in that last shot in the rain, was confused like a child is when the fun has to end early.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Gold Trumpet on February 05, 2006, 02:46:01 AM
I caught this film on the Discovery channel tonight. Commercials excluded, I was happy I saw it there. Reasons are below.

Grizzly Man is fascinating. The idea of a man spending 13 years in the Alaskan wilderness with Grizzly bears is a freak idea that makes one ask, "Why would someone do that?" But, this man Treadwell filmed his fantastic exploration. The documentary about him is allowed to really skimp on his life because his filmed experience is already interesting enough.

Yet the question of why was mostly on my mind and I was never felt fully satisfied with the answers in this film. Werner Herzog may have been the wrong director to do this film. Treadwell is a man who physically and emotionally resembles Klaus Kinski. Thinking about it, the similarity is staggering. A film could be made about Herzog's own journey to Treadwell after Kinski. Grizzly Man is a portrait made similarily along the lines of "My Best Fiend" that documents more the extremism and then offers snippets of criticism only here and there. After watching the film, "The diary of the Grizzly Man" aired. It was a filmed responce to the film. The insight it gave into the mind of this man was more provoking and thorough in giving me the answers I was looking for to why he gave so much of his life to such a cause.

But neither film overwhelms the other. Herzog gives the appropriate music and patience to preserving Treadwell's experience and the following documentary adaquately asks why. I was never too thrilled with either film. Grizzly Man is good but also repititious and inundated with so much of Treadwell's personality that just being annoyed with him can be proper criticism to enjoying the film. My father watched 45 minutes with me and walked off complaining about the guy. I understood why he did it. The film also reminds me of something I read a few years ago. At NYU apparently a student film was made of two people having sex. The attraction to seeing that filmed event was as likely as provoking as seeing a documentary on why the students who participated in having sex even did it. Both ideas have merit but making films that separate both experiences doesn't feel as rewarding as doing one that combines both. My criticism of Grizzly Man is that I never felt the criticism was truly merged with the experience. Knowing Werner Herzog I imagine he was too close to the subject to do so.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pozer on February 05, 2006, 10:35:11 AM
I too saw this last night on Discovery.

I agree with most of what you say but not with the question of why being on your mind.  I think Herzog said it best in the film, that the answer lies only in Treadwell's head.  Then he gave us mass opinions on the subject which were all of course valid but also stirred the viewers mind causing the thought of right or wrong to jump back and forth. 

It was really constructed quite magnificently when you think about it.  His footage mixed with the trail of his (and his girlfriend's) death right from the get go as opposed to the normal formula of leading up to it.  This allows us to see the portrait of this man and his obsession, his destiny and the tragedy that eventually came of it simultaneously which inflicts that raw emotion throughout the whole journey.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: JG on February 05, 2006, 10:50:50 AM
I saw it last night. 

It didn't seem to really follow anything chronologically, which I found interesting.  I liked it, but the commrecials annoyed me.  I'll have to see it again.  It was my first Herzog. 
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: squints on February 05, 2006, 03:09:40 PM
nice review  :yabbse-thumbup:
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: pete on February 05, 2006, 08:06:47 PM
dude, Jimmygator is like 16 years old, you older dudes should really take it easy on the kid.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on February 06, 2006, 04:32:31 AM
Quote from: pete on February 05, 2006, 08:06:47 PM
dude, Jimmygator is like 16 years old, you older dudes should really take it easy on the kid.
i thought squints comment, however vapid, was legitimate. he's known to post his reactions like that. see: "hahahaha"

but u bring up a good point.. so what if he's 16? Hedwig is 16, have you read his recent reviews for Turtles Can Fly (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=7532.msg215337#msg215337) and Naked (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=1602.msg215462#msg215462) not to mention his general points of argument in any topic? Samsong was 16 when he started posting, and he wrote some of this board's most insightful reviews and comments before succumbing to the devil's weed. chest rockwell too was 16 and developed into a relatively astute young man before our very eyes.

you're gonna have to come up with a better defense than age for your favourite local patron. i don't think he's said anything (exceedingly) embarrassing in this thread, so i hav to assume squints was being serious, but in other cases i think he has been called upon for ignorance that goes way beyond his age.. in many cases by people in similar stages of adolescent development.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: JG on February 06, 2006, 05:56:35 AM
i agree that being 16 is not a good excuse, but i don't think i'm nearly as ignorant as you think i am.  sure, i may have used the same catch phrase once or twice, but i don't think that exemplifies my ignorance.  often, things i mean to say on these message boards come out wrong and look like i didn't put any thought into them.  more than anything, i think, i'm just not very good expressing myself through writing.  i always thought i was a good writer, but recently i've realized i got a long way to go.    it's funny because everyone I've encountered outside of the internet tell's me how eloquent and insightful i seem (my elders, mostly).  bash me as long as it's justified,  just know that i'm not as stupid as i may seem at times.   

hopefully i, too, will develop into a astute young man over time -- one whose opinion even you will respect, pubrick. 

Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: ©brad on February 06, 2006, 08:19:36 AM
Quote from: JimmyGator on February 06, 2006, 05:56:35 AMhopefully i, too, will develop into a astute young man over time -- one whose opinion even you will respect, pubrick.

dude, he already respects your opinion. read his post again.

Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Gamblour. on February 06, 2006, 12:12:08 PM
Hedwig is 16?!?!?!
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Reinhold on February 06, 2006, 12:16:44 PM
don't worry. so's emma watson. it's all good.

so, how about that guy who got eated by the bear?
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: noyes on February 06, 2006, 04:24:46 PM
I heard the audio of Tim getting eaten.. in my head.
Sounded terrible.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Reinhold on February 06, 2006, 09:18:02 PM
Quote from: noyes on February 06, 2006, 04:24:46 PM
I heard the audio of Tim getting eaten.. in my head.
Sounded terrible.

when i saw it, i was thinking that it's only a matter of time until some asshole either steals and leaks the real tape or creates a fake leak of it.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Gamblour. on February 07, 2006, 12:32:42 AM
I actually just had a huge discussion with my girlfriend about this movie. She said that she didn't like Herzog's imprint on the film, that he was egocentric, for his narration and the scene where he listens to the tape. The narration, I kinda let that slide, she said he was interfering too much with his musings and ramblings about nature and stuff. I can kinda see that, but I don't agree. However, the scene where he listens to the tape is so necessary. She said that his face being turned away was horrible for the audience because they aren't listening or anything, they're just waiting for something to happen. I said that if he had shown his face, that would have been egotistical. It is only about the listening and Treadwell's old flame and not himself.

Then she said that three of my smart friends turned it off about twenty minutes in because it was "boring." I lost so much respect for them. How can anyone in their right mind say the subject matter of this film was so not compelling that they had to turn it off? This man is so incredible and almost unbelievable. Man, kids these days.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on February 07, 2006, 12:56:08 AM
Quote from: Gamblour le flambeur on February 07, 2006, 12:32:42 AM
Then she said that three of my smart friends turned it off about twenty minutes in because it was "boring." I lost so much respect for them.
she's turning you against your friends? DTMFA
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: squints on February 07, 2006, 01:52:43 AM
Quote from: Pubrick on February 06, 2006, 04:32:31 AM
Quote from: pete on February 05, 2006, 08:06:47 PM
dude, Jimmygator is like 16 years old, you older dudes should really take it easy on the kid.
i thought squints comment, however vapid, was legitimate. he's known to post his reactions like that. see: "hahahaha"

but u bring up a good point.. so what if he's 16? Hedwig is 16, have you read his recent reviews for Turtles Can Fly (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=7532.msg215337#msg215337) and Naked (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=1602.msg215462#msg215462) not to mention his general points of argument in any topic? Samsong was 16 when he started posting, and he wrote some of this board's most insightful reviews and comments before succumbing to the devil's weed. chest rockwell too was 16 and developed into a relatively astute young man before our very eyes.

you're gonna have to come up with a better defense than age for your favourite local patron. i don't think he's said anything (exceedingly) embarrassing in this thread, so i hav to assume squints was being serious, but in other cases i think he has been called upon for ignorance that goes way beyond his age.. in many cases by people in similar stages of adolescent development.


I was saying thumbs up to GT's review, i found it rather insightful...sorry Jimmy...the magic of the "quote" has now become clear
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Bethie on February 07, 2006, 02:17:58 AM
Like several of you, I also caught it on the Discovery Channel. The commercials were shown in what seemed like every 3 minutes. Once it hit the 2hour 15min mark, I felt that I got it and gave up. Maybe I'll watch it without the commercials someday.

did any of you watch the diary of the grizzly man? a lot of his friends talked about the film and him. I caught a lot of that. interesting.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: cron on February 16, 2006, 09:40:58 PM
i know i super praised manderlay recently but i cannot shut up about this documentary being outstanding and important. there isn't much  i can say about it, just that i cried during most of it. i feel devastated.  i admire herzog for making me interested on something i might've probably taken as 'wacky'. what a poet, herzog.  i feel a kind of guilt whenever i think about herzog's view on nature  and society. makes me long for the days i thought mobile phones were evil. the indiference of nature is probably my favorite theme ever, and this documentary demonstrates that art's called art cos it's not nature. i think herzog knows this but treadwell didn't.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: w/o horse on February 18, 2006, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: cronopio on February 16, 2006, 09:40:58 PM
i know i super praised manderlay recently but i cannot shut up about this documentary being outstanding and important. there isn't much  i can say about it, just that i cried during most of it. i feel devastated.  i admire herzog for making me interested on something i might've probably taken as 'wacky'. what a poet, herzog.  i feel a kind of guilt whenever i think about herzog's view on nature  and society. makes me long for the days i thought mobile phones were evil. the indiference of nature is probably my favorite theme ever, and this documentary demonstrates that art's called art cos it's not nature. i think herzog knows this but treadwell didn't.

I love this post.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Ultrahip on April 12, 2006, 07:51:05 PM
please, someone tell me what the "hooo-yip, hoooo-yip, hoooooo!" song is at the end. i feel like it's don edwards...but what's it called? and is it really don edwards?
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: pete on April 12, 2006, 11:07:25 PM
http://imdb.com/title/tt0427312/soundtrack
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Ultrahip on April 13, 2006, 01:58:02 AM
gracias, muchacho.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Pubrick on April 15, 2006, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Ultrahip on April 13, 2006, 01:58:02 AM
gracias, muchacho.

also.. http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=7844.msg200273#msg200273
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Ravi on July 20, 2006, 09:18:09 PM
I just started watching Grizzly Man on DVD and it says onscreen, "This film has been modified from its original theatrical version."  What's up with this?
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: MacGuffin on July 20, 2006, 10:56:50 PM
Quote from: Ravi on July 20, 2006, 09:18:09 PM
I just started watching Grizzly Man on DVD and it says onscreen, "This film has been modified from its original theatrical version."  What's up with this?

Alternate Versions for
Grizzly Man (2005)
The DVD from Lions Gate Home Entertainment opens with a disclaimer stating that the film has been changed from its theatrical version. The sole change is in the first ten minutes where Herzog explains that Treadwell had become a semi-celebrity. In the theatrical version a clip is shown of Treadwell on CBS' "Late Show with David Letterman." Treadwell comes out and explains what he has been doing and Letterman quips, "We're not going to open a newspaper one day and read about you being eaten by a bear are we?" In the DVD version this exchange is omitted and replaced with a NBC news segment of Treadwell being interviewed. When the interviewer asks if he would ever want a gun to protect himself, Treadwell states that he "would never, ever kill a bear even in the defense of my own life."
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Ravi on July 22, 2006, 02:23:21 AM
Thanks, Mac.  Why was the Letterman clip taken out?  Was it considered bad taste?


SPOILERISH





This is not a nature film extolling Treadwell and nature.  It portrays him as an idealist who doesn't really know how to help these bears.  What did he accomplish by living with them?  One person can't be their savior.  At the same time, these bears were his saviors.  He traded his struggles with alcoholism and failure for a sort of idealism and egomania that he could protect the bears and that humans were the only destructive and selfish beings.

Herzog firmly puts his opinions on the film, with his view of nature as chaotic and hostile.  A lot of documentaries strive for "objectivity" but filmmakers show their biases in what they show and how they show it anyways, so he might as well consciously say something about the subject matter.
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: mogwai on November 20, 2012, 09:35:18 AM
Reelist bump!

Finally saw it on Netflix today. I think Herzog is a brilliant documentarian who has a great chunk of compassion into his projects. I think a lot people has said on how weird the Timothy Treadwill guy was but I can see the similarity between him and Klaus Kinski. That's also what Werner said in the doc that he has seen that kind of eccentricity on movie sets or something.

Even though this was a documentary it reminded me of "Into this wild". Even though it was based on a real guy I felt that both movies captured the isolation and somewhat despair. In Timothy's case he was quite close to civilisation but chose to be one with the bears. I don't really know whatt that means but what the hell yeah? :yabbse-grin:

That's all from me folks!
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: wilberfan on March 25, 2018, 08:41:49 PM
This was running on the local PBS station last night when I got into bed.  I'd seen the film in it's original run, but hadn't though much about it over the last several years.  Goddamn, what a compelling, confusing, disturbing, infuriating, eye-rolling, frustrating subject and documentary.  It's marvelous.  I'm going to have to watch it in it's entirety again.  Werner, you're amazing. 
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Reel on March 25, 2018, 10:06:17 PM
Two Reelist bumps in a row. bravo!  :bravo:
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: wilberfan on March 25, 2018, 10:08:23 PM
I don't get the reference, but you're welcome?
Title: Re: Grizzly Man
Post by: Robyn on March 25, 2018, 10:40:58 PM
bumpin pumpkin'