Just got Canon XL1S w/ the manual lens...

Started by SoNowThen, May 07, 2003, 11:18:55 AM

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SoNowThen

May 07, 2003, 11:18:55 AM
...and I need some pointers.

First off, the manual lens is great, reminds me of the 16mm zooms we used in film school. And it's got distance markings on it. Now, the only question I have is this: for 16mm, we'd always look in the ASC manual, find the appropriate chart for the corresponding lens size and focul length, then mark our focus on the barrel. And, of course, that applied to 35mm also. So, with this Canon video lens, is there a place I can get focus charts for it? Why I ask is that "rule of thirds" focus thing -- you know, where the focus around a subject is strongest one third in front and two thirds behind. If I had the charts, I could set to a focal distance that would hold a few objects (within close range) in focus, rather than having to pull every two seconds.

Also, I would like to get the deepest/richest black levels possible. When I use a single source to light, I'd like the rest to drop off into blackness, but of course, being video, the blacks appear pretty pixel-ish or grainy. If I fool with color gain & sharpness, will this help?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Ghostboy

#1
May 07, 2003, 11:27:03 AM
First off, congrats with the camera and lens! That's the best possible package with that camera (not counting the mini-35 adapator). I really want one of those manual lenses. I hate the standard one.

I don't know about focus charts for that particular lens, but from working with pro lenses on betacams and such, it's pretty easy to eyeball it.

Getting really rich blacks is hard to do. I wouldn't mess with the color gain on the camera; it'll make things even noisier. Black promists may help a bit, but they also might make your image too muddy in the brighter areas. If you don't need to worry so much about depth of field, maybe you could use a really bright source light that's a few stops brighter than what you would normally use, and then just close the iris to the appropriate level.

SoNowThen

#2
May 07, 2003, 11:44:02 AM
But even if I do that, won't the "black" sections of the screen still come off as a fuzzy grey?


As a side note, I did some b&w tests, and they look amazing!! This camera is gonna pull off some early-Godard like b&w pictures. It's just the color I'm worried about.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

aclockworkjj

#3
May 07, 2003, 06:55:21 PM
Yeah...the blacks will always give you trouble, it's video.  As far as the focus charts go....I guess I am confused.  I used them too with 16mm, but only cause it was a shitty viewfinder camera I was using.  With the XL-1...GB is right, you should have no problem just eyeballin' it....

SoNowThen

#4
May 07, 2003, 09:12:35 PM
Appreciate the help, boys. I need all I can get.

Here's the problem: the xl1s color viewfinder is the camera's Achilleus Heel. It has been said that it is unreliable as far as what you see is not always what is being recorded. It's no problem with a single subject, but say I'm doing a hand-held with two subjects that are about two feet apart. I wanna find a focal length where I can hold both in decent focus. Of course, if I could afford to pay a crew, I would just have the focus puller riding the knob (perhaps with a remote). But that isn't an option. So I  figured if I had a chart of some kind (especially with no monitor on set), I could be SURE what I'm recording is in focus. ~whew~


BTW - I have some short films I'd like to put on the site, just for people to see -- it would be a laugh. But they're on VHS (or beta master). I have no clue how to go about this. PM me if you have suggestions/wanna help.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Cecil

#5
May 07, 2003, 11:53:56 PM
CECIL JEALOUS!! CECIL SMASH PUNY CAMERA!!!!

jasper_window

#6
May 08, 2003, 08:48:50 AM
Do yourself a favor and find a monitor.  I've shot a few things with the
XL1S and I loved it, but I had a monitor on set and it was invaluable.  I had trouble with the blacks as well.  If you haven't seen Persoanl Velocity rent it, it's very good, and Ellen Kuras does a commentary on it.  She shot with PD150's but she talks about having a monitor on set and how valueable it really is.  Borrow one, find the money to rent.  Shoot on the weekend, rent on Friday pay one day rate and get it for the whole weekend.

SoNowThen

#7
May 08, 2003, 08:54:48 AM
Yeah, I'll have to for the serious work. But I also wanna do some improv stuff, and shoot tons of docs, and for that it's just gonna be me operating, and that's it. When I actually shoot another serious movie, I'll get a DP who knows how to light, 'cause I'm fairly useless at that.

Here's another one: what do I do if I wanna shoot 1.85:1 or 2.35:1? I know people mask the monitor, but what about the eyepiece? Or does the op just have to eyeball? Or, if you get the 35mm converter, I assume all your line marks are in the eyepiece...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

jasper_window

#8
May 08, 2003, 09:38:50 AM
16x9 is close enough (1.78:1), where you could compensate that way.  for 2.35:1 I know people who have actually masked the matte box, or certainly eyeball it, and you could readjust, as necessary, in post with a picture in picture effect.

Ghostboy

#9
May 08, 2003, 10:13:21 AM
For 2:35:1, yeah, just eyeball it and then, if you were off a little bit in, you can adjust the image's placement within the 2:35:1 mask to cover any mistakes. The only time you'll really have trouble is with movement-heavy handheld shots.

I'd hightly suggest getting a monitor. I rent one when I can, and when I can't I use this old Comodore 64 monitor I found laying around. It actually works really well.

SoNowThen

#10
May 08, 2003, 10:22:22 AM
Are those wireless monitors? 'Cause I imagine a hooked-up monitor would get pretty cumbersome (especially with all the moving shots I do).
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Ghostboy

#11
May 08, 2003, 10:26:42 AM
The Sony pro monitors that I rent -- I forget the numerical nomenclature, PVM-something or other -- have Anton Bauer battery attachments.

SoNowThen

#12
May 08, 2003, 10:42:18 AM
How much do those cost to rent (per day)?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Ghostboy

#13
May 08, 2003, 10:56:41 AM
Ah, here it is: The Sony PVM 8041 field monitor. I get them for about forty five or fifty a day, but as mentioned above, if you rent on a Friday, you can keep it until Monday. Also, most rental places will give you a three day week -- pay for three days, keep for five -- UNLESS you rent it on a Tuesday, in which case that last day will fall on a Saturday and you'll get to keep it until the following Monday! I love exploiting the policies of rental facilities!

SoNowThen

#14
May 08, 2003, 11:04:19 AM
Cool, mucho thanks.


I've got another q: what's a comfortable shutter speed to shoot at, and why would I screw with the shutter speed (besides to get the strobe effect, or to compensate for low light)?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.
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