What's the point of a mixer?

Started by Link, December 01, 2003, 11:22:20 AM

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Link

December 01, 2003, 11:22:20 AM
Okay, you hook up your mic to the mixer, the mixer to some recorder.  Sure, you can adjust the volumes, etc, but if you're just using some mic on a boom pole, why use a whatever-hundred dollar mixer with 4 plugs for mics if you're only using one?  Is just cuz of the fact that there ARE no mixers with one plug?  I guess it wouldn't be a mixer then.  But is that really the only reason?  Or do any of you actually use more than one mic during shooting (besides lavs)?  Just curious.  The on-campus radio station I work for has a professional microphone mixer, and they only use it for like election time and such, so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get to borrow it.  I'm so happy!

mutinyco

#1
December 01, 2003, 12:11:36 PM
Well, traditionally the 2 systems are, for analog it's a Nagra, for digital it's a DAT. You need the knobs to adjust the recording levels properly. And yeah, sometimes more than one mic will be used -- especially if you're dealing with wireless mics.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

TheVoiceOfNick

#2
December 01, 2003, 03:13:20 PM
Using a mixer during on-set production is vital if you're using more than one mic during digital productions, and using at least one mic during analog production.  You need to make sure the levels are properly balanced when going to the stereo track (of course you won't be using a multi-track recorder during production, so you need to be able to mix down those 2 or 4 mics to two stereo tracks)... with a mixer you can balance each mic's volume, eq setting (for example if someone is too boomy and someone else sounds tinny), and pan setting (you may want to pan someone's voice to the slight left if they appear on the left of the screen, or maybe to the extreme right if they're supposed to be just offscreen at the right).

During post-production, you will probably be mixing on multiple tracks, so you need a mixer channel for each of those tracks.  In the olden days, they used to play the movie back while doing the sound effects live to film, either using foley or stock sound effects.  The same thing went with the music.  As you might imagine, this used to take forever, and if you messed up once, you'd have to go back to your "safe point" and start over.  Mixers were used here in pretty much the same way they are used in on-set production described above.  Today, pros use digital mixing stations where all of the tracks can be loaded and controlled individually, and the mixer is really just a control surface made to look like a mixer but which really controls each computer audio channel individually.

So, yep... the mixer is really necessary... unless of course you are shooting digital and have one mic plugged into your camera, and will then just do a cuts-only cut of your project.  In that case, you don't need a mixer at all...

Link

#3
December 02, 2003, 10:26:45 AM
Okay, if I'm just wanting to shoot on digital, but for some reason I just don't like the thought of recording with the mic plugged into the camera, is it worth the trouble to shoot with a mixer, into a mini disc recorder, just so I can have a little more control and freedom?  That's probably what I plan to do.

TheVoiceOfNick

#4
December 02, 2003, 01:10:24 PM
You can record into a MD recorder with a mic, and just do a clapstick sync before you start the scene.  This will definetly allow you more freedom, but it will cost you more money and it will be more complicated in the post-production phase.  DV quality sound is essentially the same as DAT sound, so you are actually down-grading by going to mini disc.

Link

#5
December 07, 2003, 02:04:51 PM
Wow, that is good to know.  So it would work better if I just get a mic, via an adapter, hook it up to the gl1, and that would be better?  How long are the cables usually?  Cuz I still want it on a boom pole, I'm hoping it's not TOO restrictive.

Ghostboy

#6
December 07, 2003, 03:44:30 PM
You can get XLR cables at 10,25,50 or 100 feet and if that's not enough, you can connect two together. I usually will use a 50 or 100 ft cable and keep it coiled, so that there's plenty of give.

Link

#7
December 08, 2003, 08:25:40 AM
Well, if I've got someone else with a boom pole with a mic hooked up to the camera, I would think I'd need an extension for the headphones, so THAT guy can listen to how good it's sounding.  Don't know how well that'll work, but I think it'll work.

TheVoiceOfNick

#8
December 08, 2003, 11:59:42 AM
If you're using a boom operator (recommended), make sure you have enough cable for him/her to move around with.  I've had times where the camera has gotten pulled because of the cables being too short.

Link

#9
December 09, 2003, 08:38:17 AM
Rock and Roll

mutinyco

#10
December 09, 2003, 09:25:19 AM
Well, there is one thing. Are you going to be mixing together a soundtrack in post? I mean, are you going to record and foley in all of your ambient sounds? And do you have the capability to do that? Honestly, if you have no plans to do any of that, just stick with the camera's mic. I record sound separately -- but then I put together a minimum of 10 audio tracks and do a serious mix.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Link

#11
December 10, 2003, 09:41:52 AM
actually, I WAS hoping to record ambience and sound effects later on.  Though to be totally honest, I'm not sure how.  Any suggestions?  I mean, what would i record it to?  I mean, would i just record it straight to the camera and then when I get that footage on the computer, just use the audio of the footage?  Or should I try to hook it straight up to a laptop and record it on a sound program there?

SoNowThen

#12
December 10, 2003, 09:49:17 AM
The one downside to plugging into the camera is that pretty much the only guy who's close enough to put on the headphones is the cameraman, and he's worried about how things looks, not how they sound.

If you can get the money, rent a DAT and record with both on-board camera mic, as well as separate sound.


Muty -- what do you mean you add ten tracks? Ambiance, music, sfx, or do you multitrack the dialogue?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

#13
December 10, 2003, 10:12:27 AM
I mean I build a soundtrack. A minimum of 10 tracks of sound mixed to stereo. If you want to foley in all of the ambient sounds you don't put them all on one track. The dialogue alone should be on 2 -- you checkerboard the tracks between the people who are speaking so you can control and adjust volumes. If there's background noise, you can do a quick fade up and out and the beginning and end of each line.

Then you have all the sound effects. Same principle. Also, if you've got a stereo score -- that's 2 tracks right there. You should be able to raise/lower each sound clip, also pan from right to left. That's how you create dynamic stereo sound.

Takes a lot of time, but it's really fun.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

SoNowThen

#14
December 10, 2003, 10:20:50 AM
Sounds good. One more thing: my DAT sound is one channel (left side), so of course on the timeline the sound only shows up on L channel. It's just a simple button click to center that, right? Or do I have to copy and reverse the wave on another track? ALso, I'm using on-board and separate (as I said above). Can I mix those two together, or am I gonna get echo?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.
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