XIXAX Film Forum

The Director's Chair => Paul Thomas Anderson => Topic started by: meatball on October 18, 2003, 05:35:36 PM

Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on October 18, 2003, 05:35:36 PM
I just briefly read about how PTA thought Fight Club was "irresponsible." Does anybody have any links or information on this?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Sleuth on October 18, 2003, 05:40:49 PM
I think he was quoted as saying it made fun of cancer
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: eward on October 18, 2003, 11:49:20 PM
i agree with him.  i really hate that movie.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Cecil on October 19, 2003, 01:31:00 AM
i dont get how it makes fun of cancer. it makes fun of support groups.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Sleuth on October 19, 2003, 02:50:14 AM
I disagree with him, I think he's just being a bit of a pussy
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cine on October 19, 2003, 03:10:32 AM
Maybe its just a scapegoat for him because he thought it was shit.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Spike on October 19, 2003, 04:01:33 AM
That's quite funny because "Fight Club" is one of my 3 favourite films and PTA is one of my 3 favourite directors.
But I don't understand in which way "Fight Club" made fun of cancer.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cine on October 19, 2003, 04:47:52 AM
I didn't like Fight Club.. and generally I support PTA on what he says.. but I don't know how Fight Club makes fun of cancer either.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: thedog on October 19, 2003, 06:19:17 AM
coming from the same guy who made a movie about a porn industry family in the seventies and early eighties and ended it right before aids became a big deal. besides, PTA said he only sat through the first half hour of fight club anyway, so he probably only saw the support group stuff. I got a feeling that PTA is a bit of a snob.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cine on October 19, 2003, 10:42:32 AM
If we didn't know he was PTA and he was just an average joe walking out and saying it just made fun of cancer, imagine how many people here would call him a stupid asshole...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Cecil on October 19, 2003, 11:32:22 AM
well its because it kinda makes fun of people who are dying, showing them as pathetic. so, having just lost his father and everything...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 19, 2003, 12:19:13 PM
Oh, totally. Magnolia was PTA's way of dealing with cancer, in a rather personal way. So when he saw the first part of Fight Club portraying sick people without a great deal of pity, he started spouting off. He was really out there -- saying stuff like: "Fuck David Fincher!" Stuff like that. It was rather humorous I thought. But he was really snobbish about Magnolia -- remember the look on his face at the Oscars when he lost the screenplay award to Alan Ball? Everybody knew Ball was going to win. But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: dnthmn on October 19, 2003, 03:45:11 PM
i was under the impression that after seeing the entire film , he said he was wrong and apologized to fincher. just what i heard
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 19, 2003, 04:03:48 PM
I didn't hear that. I suppose that's rational though.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Cecil on October 19, 2003, 04:10:46 PM
i know he apologized but i didnt know he had watched the movie in its entirety
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on October 19, 2003, 05:23:31 PM
Quote from: mutinyco
But he was really snobbish about Magnolia -- remember the look on his face at the Oscars when he lost the screenplay award to Alan Ball? Everybody knew Ball was going to win. But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.

That just makes me respect him more.  I know the feeling, wanting to win something badly, and not getting it.  Everyone does.  It's more genuine than to smile and applaud, though everyone expects you to be graceful.  I can imagine how much PTA must really hate American Beauty now, as Magnolia really was his magnum opus, and AB, though great in my opinion, simply dwarfs in comparison.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 19, 2003, 05:49:35 PM
Not really a question of which you thought was better. EVERYBODY knew Ball was going to win -- everbody it seemed except PTA.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on October 20, 2003, 05:44:04 AM
Since I rarely watch the awards, I really don't know what the reaction was, but I'd love to see a video of that. Personally, I'm divided, because I think Magnolia is a tremendous film, but the American Beauty screenplay was really good, BUT, if I had to choose who'd get that award, I'd choose Being John Malkovich.

As for what Paul said of Fight Club, I can only understand it because he had gone through very hard times with hisfather dying of cancer and everything. Fight Club was a very good and socially very important film and it doesn't make fun of cancer. In those scenes it makes fun of support groups, but in the end, it doesn't even matter, because Fight Club ends up talking about bigger issues than that. To me, saying it makes fun of cancer is the same as saying the movie is fascist. It isn't. It exposes us to the problems and makes us think about them. Anybody who walks out of Fight Club thinking that people dying of cancer are people to make fun of, or thinking they should start a fight you their palls are just plain stupid and in the end, that's what Fight Club makes fun of: the stupidity going on in the world.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Spike on October 20, 2003, 07:39:26 AM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Quote from: mutinyco
But he was really snobbish about Magnolia -- remember the look on his face at the Oscars when he lost the screenplay award to Alan Ball? Everybody knew Ball was going to win. But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.

That just makes me respect him more.  I know the feeling, wanting to win something badly, and not getting it.  Everyone does.  It's more genuine than to smile and applaud, though everyone expects you to be graceful.  I can imagine how much PTA must really hate American Beauty now, as Magnolia really was his magnum opus, and AB, though great in my opinion, simply dwarfs in comparison.


I saw the awards and PTA really looked dissapointed. But "Magnolia" was better than "American Beauty" in many ways and should've won for it's directing and the screenplay. I understood PTA in that moment. Who wouldn't have been dissapointed in that moment?
But did you see what he did right after Ball won? He looked into the camera which was filming him and opened his mouth totally. Why did he do this?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cine on October 20, 2003, 08:43:18 AM
Does anybody have any screenshots of this stuff?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 20, 2003, 09:53:09 AM
I think he was probably really insulated by people calling him a genius. I mean, Tom Cruise actively sought to be in the film. But the truth is, it DID get really mixed reviews. I wasn't then, and I'm still not a fan. I still think Magnolia is a mess. At that time the trophy for creativity was the original screenplay award -- the Academy gave that one to the film that broke new ground, but wasn't mainstream enough to win the big one. Think: The Piano, Pulp Fiction, The Crying Game, etc. (All Miramax...) But I don't think Magnolia was a feat of writing, but of performances. It wasn't CONCISE storytelling -- and that's what professional writers look for, and that's what American Beauty was. He had to have been insulated because NOBODY in the media had picked Magnolia to win the award. I was actually suprised it got nominated.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on October 20, 2003, 09:59:14 AM
Quote from: mutinyco
Oh, totally. Magnolia was PTA's way of dealing with cancer, in a rather personal way. So when he saw the first part of Fight Club portraying sick people without a great deal of pity, he started spouting off. He was really out there -- saying stuff like: "Fuck David Fincher!" Stuff like that. It was rather humorous I thought. But he was really snobbish about Magnolia -- remember the look on his face at the Oscars when he lost the screenplay award to Alan Ball? Everybody knew Ball was going to win. But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.


If I wrote a brilliant masterwork like Magnolia, and I lost to a piece of monkey shit script like Ball wrote, I too would be outraged. In fact, I was fucking outraged. But PTA should not go to the Oscars anyway, it's a farce. When he lost to Goodwill Hunting for Boogie Nights, well, that could be an even bigger outrage. It disgusts me.

And he flipped about the Fincher thing, then later apologized. He was just blowing off steam, which I'm sure we've all done before.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 20, 2003, 10:08:39 AM
I think the point is: when you're a public figure and a respected artist, you should be a little more careful. I'll chalk it up to youth.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on October 20, 2003, 10:17:30 AM
I'll agree being more careful re: the Fincher comments, but fuck it about the Oscar thing. Why shouldn't he have looked pissed off? It's an honest reaction, and a deserved one. I like the fact that he's super-proud about his movies, it shows that he cares.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 20, 2003, 12:55:26 PM
It would've been fine if he was widely predicted to have won that award. He wasn't. Nobody expected PTA to win. Ball's Oscar was as sure as sure. That's why his reaction came off poorly and we're still talking about it several years later. :)
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on October 20, 2003, 12:57:22 PM
I guess what I'm saying is: wouldn't you rather someone you consider an influence or "hero" if you wanna use that word, is a person you can count on for an honest reaction (positive or not), rather than just another plastic phony asshole?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 20, 2003, 01:02:50 PM
I don't think there should have been a reaction. He should've already known he wasn't going to win. There wasn't any drama. For him to have had that violent a reaction it would've meant that he spent more time around people who told him what he wanted to hear, as opposed to listening to the industry or the press. How's this for a hero -- Kubrick never attended the Oscars for any of his nominations!
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on October 20, 2003, 01:09:42 PM
yeah, I definitely think that's the higher route to go. Agreed.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cine on October 20, 2003, 01:28:39 PM
Quote from: mutinyco
I don't think there should have been a reaction. He should've already known he wasn't going to win. There wasn't any drama. For him to have had that violent a reaction it would've meant that he spent more time around people who told him what he wanted to hear, as opposed to listening to the industry or the press.

Perhaps this discussion has already concluded but I want to comment on this anyhow. Why must there be so much expectation for a guy like PTA? Like Tarantino, he's one of the ones who made it. And this WAS his magnum opus. So if he gets the nod for writing, can you tell me why it was such a crime for him to, say, NOT listen to the press? To simply seclude himself from what everyone else was saying for the winners? Because honestly, how much of a waste is that? A big awards ceremony and PTA is asking people who the favourites are, who "is" going to win what, who won't be winning, etc. Takes all the fun out of it for a young filmmaker like PTA. If it was me, I wouldn't want to know if my chances were 2 to 1 or 5 to 1 or 10 to 1, etc. Because that would depress me when I'm at the awards. "Well, here I am, and I'm going to lose tonight. Let's put on a happy face." Fuck it. So one guy doesn't do it because he should've listened to the industry. I don't think that's right to assume he should go into an awards ceremony knowing what the media is thinking and what the people at home are thinking. It's a completely different ballgame for PTA this time around.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: TheVoiceOfNick on October 21, 2003, 03:21:14 PM
Woody should tell PT how the awards are all farces... two geniuses that may never be properly acknowledged by their peers until long after their career is over...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: MacGuffin on October 21, 2003, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: TheVoiceOfNick
Woody should tell PT how the awards are all farces... two geniuses that may never be properly acknowledged by their peers until long after their career is over...


Three Oscars and the most nominations for writing (13; more than Billy Wilder) are not enough for Woody?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on October 21, 2003, 03:28:32 PM
but he doesn't go...

I think that was the connection trying to be made...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: tpfkabi on October 26, 2003, 06:22:06 PM
i'm really surprised that this article or interview of PTA talking about Fight Club is not on the pta site or internet somewhere....i'm really interested now.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SHAFTR on October 26, 2003, 06:27:40 PM
Interesting how on his own message board, Kevin Smith insults Magnolia...and he gets criticized, very heavily.

At the Oscars, PTA shows a complete disregard for respect...yet he was just blowing off steam.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on October 26, 2003, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: SHAFTR
Interesting how on his own message board, Kevin Smith insults Magnolia...and he gets criticized, very heavily.

At the Oscars, PTA shows a complete disregard for respect...yet he was just blowing off steam.


I agree with you on what you say, but for me, a huge PT fan and also a big Kevin Smith fan, the best way to deal with this is just to let go and focus only on the movies, which is what those two guys (and also Fincher) are really good at.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Finn on October 27, 2003, 08:12:14 PM
I think that PTA has become like QT in the sense that they can both be snobs. They're fame and success has gone to their heads and sometimes they can be snobbish and self-absorbed. As if they're saying, "Whatever I say is right and everyone else is wrong".
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on October 27, 2003, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: Sydney
I think that PTA has become like QT in the sense that they can both be snobs. They're fame and success has gone to their heads and sometimes they can be snobbish and self-absorbed. As if they're saying, "Whatever I say is right and everyone else is wrong".


I totally agree. Both are very inspiring though.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Sleuth on October 27, 2003, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: meatball
Quote from: Sydney
I think that PTA has become like QT in the sense that they can both be snobs. They're fame and success has gone to their heads and sometimes they can be snobbish and self-absorbed. As if they're saying, "Whatever I say is right and everyone else is wrong".


I totally agree. Both are very inspiring though.


Agreed with both posts.  I was going to say something like that earlier but I was afraid I would be crucified
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Banky on October 27, 2003, 08:40:43 PM
Yeah Kevin Smith is sucha fucking snob check this
 shit (http://newsaskew.com/onlocation/bash2003) out
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SHAFTR on October 27, 2003, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: Banky
Yeah Kevin Smith is sucha fucking snob check this
 shit (http://newsaskew.com/onlocation/bash2003) out


is that sarcasm?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Banky on October 27, 2003, 08:49:30 PM
what does the link tell you?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: tpfkabi on October 28, 2003, 10:38:39 PM
well, since i'll never get to read PTA's comments on Fight Club in the PTA Comments about Fight Club thread......i did read the Rolling Stone, QT article and apparently he liked Fight Club quite a bit.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SHAFTR on October 28, 2003, 11:25:26 PM
Quote from: Banky
what does the link tell you?


that kevin smith is very cool to do something like that.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Banky on October 29, 2003, 08:11:13 AM
exactly good sir
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on October 29, 2003, 12:46:26 PM
I think Fight Club is a great film. We like to think that people when become sick are pure angels, and that's just not true. Finding out that you have cancer only means that your days are maybe numbered. Cancer kills slowly and silently, and people are faced with the fact that they have been living for some time, and it will soon be over. What have they achieved? What could they be proud of? What are they leaving behind? How soon people are going to forget about them, and live their life? Fear: is there anything on "the other side", or just darkness, nothing,...?
In support groups people are just continuing their roles they have played all their life. After few meetings you can recognize who's The Boss, The Scapegoat, The Baby of the group...
If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on October 29, 2003, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: molly
In support groups people are just continuing their roles they have played all their life. After few meetings you can recognize who's The Boss, The Scapegoat, The Baby of the group...
If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".


Jeezus... just toss those labels around on people.  :?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on October 29, 2003, 06:45:47 PM
Quote from: meatball
Quote from: molly
In support groups people are just continuing their roles they have played all their life. After few meetings you can recognize who's The Boss, The Scapegoat, The Baby of the group...
If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".


Jeezus... just toss those labels around on people.  :?


They are not labels, quite the opposite - it's only a description of somebody's usual behaviour, and that somebody coud work on him/herself to adjust the behaviour to the situation, not to play always on the same "music" in the head.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: eward on October 29, 2003, 10:29:52 PM
is there anybody here, besides me, who really DISLIKED fight club, cuz i seem to be in the minority.  im beginning to feel guilty for disliking this film...and ive seen it more than once to try and see what others see in it and i just don't.....is there something wrong with me??
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Banky on October 29, 2003, 10:30:39 PM
yeah, i think you might be alone
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Cecil on October 29, 2003, 10:31:02 PM
yes. youre in love with bret ratner
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SHAFTR on October 29, 2003, 11:00:43 PM
Quote from: molly

If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".


so you are validating the truth of one movie with another movie?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: coffeebeetle on October 29, 2003, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: eward
is there anybody here, besides me, who really DISLIKED fight club, cuz i seem to be in the minority.  im beginning to feel guilty for disliking this film...and ive seen it more than once to try and see what others see in it and i just don't.....is there something wrong with me??


You're not alone man.  I didn't particularly like it either.  It fell apart after the first "act"....The beginning started off strong though.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on October 30, 2003, 02:29:31 AM
Quote from: SHAFTR
Quote from: molly

If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".


so you are validating the truth of one movie with another movie?


You can join a support group also.
Fight Club upsets people because it faced us with the fact that life is sometimes a valley of tears, and sometimes you can't find a reason good enough or strong enough to wake up early in the morning, have coffee, a healthy breakfast, brush your teeth, dress up, drive to your work, handle all that crap that comes in your way every day, then go home, eat sth healthy, workout to keep your body and mind in shape... Not all people have interesting and fulfilling job. Norton's character didn't get a multiple personality disorder out of nothing. In Trainspotting Renton was taking drugs. Sometimes people go all the way and reach the bottom only to realize that the life they had was good, worth living. These fights made them to feel winners sometimes. Made them also to punch and get punched - made them feel alive. Some people handle emotional pain by making it physical - physical pain goes away eventually, and emotional stays, so every now and then they have to repeat the "procedure".
You know what's  funny? - I have Magnolia and Fight Club on the same tape, one after another. Both were on TV around New year and I taped them.
Fight Club deals with the dark side, with things nobody likes to admit they are (sometimes) true. Sick people can sometimes be a handful, and there are also support groups for the members of the family who look after them. Once I saw a young woman with a manic depressive psychosis who also suffered from a disorder of her thyroid gland and a man who lost both his legs - one he lost  due to Buerger's disease, and the other in a car accident. Imagine how they feel - no matter how nice they originally are sometimes they can't handle the dissapointment inside and spill it all around.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Gold Trumpet on October 30, 2003, 10:12:20 AM
Quote from: molly
You can join a support group also.
Fight Club upsets people because it faced us with the fact that life is sometimes a valley of tears, and sometimes you can't find a reason good enough or strong enough to wake up early in the morning, have coffee, a healthy breakfast, brush your teeth, dress up, drive to your work, handle all that crap that comes in your way every day, then go home, eat sth healthy, workout to keep your body and mind in shape... Not all people have interesting and fulfilling job. Norton's character didn't get a multiple personality disorder out of nothing. In Trainspotting Renton was taking drugs. Sometimes people go all the way and reach the bottom only to realize that the life they had was good, worth living. These fights made them to feel winners sometimes. Made them also to punch and get punched - made them feel alive. Some people handle emotional pain by making it physical - physical pain goes away eventually, and emotional stays, so every now and then they have to repeat the "procedure".
You know what's  funny? - I have Magnolia and Fight Club on the same tape, one after another. Both were on TV around New year and I taped them.
Fight Club deals with the dark side, with things nobody likes to admit they are (sometimes) true. Sick people can sometimes be a handful, and there are also support groups for the members of the family who look after them. Once I saw a young woman with a manic depressive psychosis who also suffered from a disorder of her thyroid gland and a man who lost both his legs - one he lost  due to Buerger's disease, and the other in a car accident. Imagine how they feel - no matter how nice they originally are sometimes they can't handle the dissapointment inside and spill it all around.


You know, I'd like to believe that paragraph on Fight Club, but I just can't. Some of the issues you talked about the movie are definitely true. Its just I think it is on a more superficial level of saying what the movie is physically talking about, instead of having aims to really dig into the matter. Fight Club is much too slick for me, too filled with goals of a genre and style to really believe this very heartfelt two paragraphs. With the ending, the untrue intentions of Fight Club are finally realized when the realization of Norton to who he was is used as just a movie ploy for a "clever reverse". The ending is a fight between Norton and Pitt for the impossible idea of Norton actually killing Pitt when he is him. Little remains of any beginning ideas with dealing with the pains of society. In my mind, everything before of matter is just used in the tradition of a stock movie set up. Norton's tramau with society is the dramatic weight the movie can ride on and also the set up to situations very unfitting to the original idea of Norton's tramau.

I may be going in another route than original discussion, but I just saw a clear endorsement of Fight Club I disagreed with.

~rougerum
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on October 30, 2003, 10:20:10 AM
Fight Club is about the disenfranchised, emasculated modern male trying to regain his manhood through different routes (male bonding, sport/fighting, early-stage facism, then finally finding love with a woman?!), and it does it in a darkly satirical way. I think to tack on anything more to the support groups or multiple personalities than is necessary is to divert the intentions of the film. So while I can't see it from the same light as Molly, I'd also have to disagree with GT, because of course I think it is brilliant.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SHAFTR on October 30, 2003, 12:19:45 PM
Fight Club is brilliant, but it's more of an excercise in style than about humanity.  I'm surprised to read that people felt moved by this film.  It definitely has a message but I don't think the message has anything to do with cancer or support groups.  They were just used to advance the narrative, nothing more than a simple plot device.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on October 30, 2003, 12:25:00 PM
If I had to complain about Fight Club, my main argument would be about something from the book that was altered. In the book Tyler was really after immortality. It was about dying to become myth or legend, the start of a new religion if you will. The movie didn't have that. It was probably deemed too controversial. I think by missing that element some of the motivation was lost in the film. The focus was different.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: eward on October 30, 2003, 07:18:11 PM
Quote from: Cecil
yes. youre in love with bret ratner


lol.  actually, i don't particularly like him very much, but I think there are better people to bash.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Finn on October 30, 2003, 07:25:33 PM
He's okay, his best movie was easily Red Dragon.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SHAFTR on October 30, 2003, 10:27:48 PM
Quote from: Sydney
He's okay, his best movie was easily Red Dragon.


I disagree...for what it was trying to accomplish..Rush Hour is his best film.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Banky on October 31, 2003, 09:53:46 AM
I really think Red Dragon was good and easily his best
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: NEON MERCURY on October 31, 2003, 12:35:56 PM
..when was pta on fight club????
i never saw him
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on October 31, 2003, 07:36:47 PM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..when was pta on fight club????
i never saw him


He was there last night, fighting Kevin Smith.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Sleuth on November 01, 2003, 03:15:38 AM
Did he win or not
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 01, 2003, 05:52:46 AM
Not.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Banky on November 01, 2003, 10:03:02 AM
yeah kevin smith kicked his ass
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 01, 2003, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: Banky
yeah kevin smith kicked his ass


No he didn't. The fight ended because Jack Valenti interrupted it saying it was NC-17 material to have "big boned" Kevin Smith and "pot-head" PTA having a fight and cursing at each other all the time.......

...... wait?...... what did I say?...... wha?......

 :shock:
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on November 01, 2003, 01:41:32 PM
RoyalTenenbaum, since you're located in Portugal, can you tell me what percentage of Portuguese women can be considered Swimsuit Illustrated model material?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 01, 2003, 06:57:24 PM
I'd say about..... 40%........ I don't know... I think portuguese women are really beautiful. I really can't complain.I love women in general, Swimsuit Illustrated models or not. But what does this have to do with anything?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on November 01, 2003, 07:04:59 PM
Just had to confirm. South American women are... great.  8)
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Sleuth on November 01, 2003, 07:06:14 PM
Quote from: meatball
Just had to confirm. South American women are... great.  8)


Is that where you think Portugal is?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on November 01, 2003, 07:08:25 PM
You're right. I was thinking Brazil. European women are great too.

Lot of great models come out of Brazil.. I think his avatar mixed me up too. Looks like it could be from City of God or something.

 :roll:
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 01, 2003, 07:23:58 PM
It is from City of God, but Portugal, you know...... is onthe other side of the sea. And although brazilians speak portuguese, they're not the same as we are. Culturally, I mean. But yes, mediterranean women are great.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on November 01, 2003, 07:30:51 PM
Yea.. I know... my history teacher from a while back would kill me. And I aced his final too. How the mighty have fallen.  :x
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 02, 2003, 06:46:11 AM
Quote from: meatball
How the mighty have fallen.  :x


Fot the mighty to fall, they need to be mighty in the first place.  :P
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Something Spanish on November 02, 2003, 05:33:50 PM
The PTA article where he badmouths FIGHT CLUB is on the C&C site, you dumb motherfuckers. It's in the Rolling Stone article (circa Magnolia) where he wishes testicular cancer on David Fincher. He also badmouths the movie GO...don't know why.

FIGHT CLUB. Jesus. A masterpiece, no doubt about it. Flawless.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Gold Trumpet on November 02, 2003, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: Shaun Digi
The PTA article where he badmouths FIGHT CLUB is on the C&C site, you dumb motherfuckers.


C'mon. Uncalled for. A good number of people don't decesend from the old board and haven't already memorized the C&C site in content as others.

~rougerum
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 02, 2003, 06:19:40 PM
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Quote from: Shaun Digi
The PTA article where he badmouths FIGHT CLUB is on the C&C site, you dumb motherfuckers.


C'mon. Uncalled for. A good number of people don't decesend from the old board and haven't already memorized the C&C site in content as others.

~rougerum


Well, I'm from the old boards, I know about the article and I don't really know what the fuck Shaun Digi wanted with that post, but I'm sure he doesn't either.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on November 03, 2003, 12:01:36 PM
Yeah, Shaun Digi, we're gonna get you! :)
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 03, 2003, 12:08:33 PM
Quote from: mutinyco
Yeah, Shaun Digi, we're gonna get you! :)


You bet. I'm gonna get the gang from City of God to kick his ass. Oh, and to kill him and stuff.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on November 03, 2003, 12:22:09 PM
This topic could be renamed simply The Fight Club
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 03, 2003, 12:26:10 PM
But then we couldn't talk about it
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on November 03, 2003, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaum
But then we couldn't talk about it



 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 03, 2003, 01:05:27 PM
Quote from: molly
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaum
But then we couldn't talk about it



 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


It was my moment of inspiration for this month.  8)  Now I can go back to beating my head with a shoe.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mutinyco on November 03, 2003, 01:11:26 PM
It might be more comfortable to just use a bare hand. Lotion, too, perhaps...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on November 03, 2003, 01:12:38 PM
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaum
Quote from: meatball
How the mighty have fallen.  :x


Fot the mighty to fall, they need to be mighty in the first place.  :P


Thanks a lot!  :cry:
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on November 03, 2003, 01:13:15 PM
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaum
Quote from: molly
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaum
But then we couldn't talk about it



 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


It was my moment of inspiration for this month.  8)  Now I can go back to beating my head with a shoe.


Don't use your (ex) girlfried's stilletto shoe, or you're not going to do even that  for long
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 03, 2003, 01:21:53 PM
Thanks for your tips regarding the best way to beat my head up. I think I'll end up using the hand, without the lotion. I was gonna use the ex-girlfriend stilletto shoe, but then I remembered that I never brought any girlfriend to my house (maybe that's why they're ex) so I don't have any of their shoes here.

As for meatball... don't mind me. I'm just a stupid motherfucker!... but I still don't think there's any mightyness in you.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on November 03, 2003, 01:39:58 PM
We just wanted to say that we love you, you Dumbass. Stop beating your head whith anything, with or without lotion.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on November 03, 2003, 04:29:37 PM
Oh, in that case, thanks for the love. Whenever I feel like stop beeing a Dumbass and do something good for humanity, I'll do something good for you too. I won't do it for mutinyco because I don't think he loves me, he was beeing serious about the hand and the lotion  :P and he loves Naomi Watts (and believe me, if I had to choose between me and Naomi, I'd love Naomi as well)
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on November 13, 2003, 05:19:21 PM
And finally.. this topic is a wrap!
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: The Silver Bullet on December 29, 2003, 05:28:15 PM
Quote from: mutinyco
But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.

It'd be nice if we could get a shot of that.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: MacGuffin on December 29, 2003, 05:41:01 PM
Quote from: The Silver Bullet
Quote from: mutinyco
But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.

It'd be nice if we could get a shot of that.


(http://damienfree.fr.free.fr/image%20cannes/Haaaaa_pta_big.jpg)
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: subversiveproductions on December 30, 2003, 04:32:45 AM
Someone, I think maybe Mutinyco (I'm probably wrong.) said something about Fight Club being in exercise in style over substance.  I think to really understand the film you have to have read at least two of Palahniuk's other books.  The way he uses and warps literary style to fit his stories can be compared to the way Fincher uses cinematic style.  Palahniuk jumps around a lot, between and within locations and times, and I think Fincher did a great job of showing that.  The way Palahniuk writes, you become so sure that you've figured out what he's making a statement on (in this case, the whole group therapy thing) until the very end, where BAM, you realize that you've fucked it all up and he's addressing something broader and farther reaching than you had originally imagined.  Specifically, check out Lullaby and Choke, fuck, check out anything by him, he's one of the best writers of our generation.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Chest Rockwell on January 03, 2004, 10:15:23 AM
I hafta say I've never been a big fan of Fincher or Fight Club. But I still don't see why PTA said that about the movie, though I can see how the movie would offend him, what parts he had seen of it, anyway. It really does make those help-groups seem pathetic, though if PTA were to see the entire film I'm sure he'd see that it's about something more. But really, who gives a shit what a director says of another director's work? As far as I see it, it seems we should focus more on the directors' bodies of work to make any kind of positive/negative statements. We can't say PTA's a pussy because he was offended by Fincher's movie. Just as we can't say Kevin Smith blows because he insulted Magnolia, or that PTA blows because Kevin Smith insulted Magnolia. Just my opinion, though.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: TheTourist on January 03, 2004, 12:00:00 PM
*Fight Club spoilers*     (do we bother to do this on this forum?)

Fight Club, I think, is an amazing movie until the third act. The first two acts are witty, fun, and stylish (not "deep", but who says a movie needs to be "deep"?) It might help that I'm not easily offended, especially about sensitive topics like cancer.

The third act, however, is when I kind of lose interest. It feels like it turns into a lame action movie.

I did read the book, after I saw the movie once, and have seen the movie several times since.
Title: Re: PTA on Fight Club
Post by: Myxo on January 14, 2004, 03:34:28 PM
Quote from: meatball
I just briefly read about how PTA thought Fight Club was "irresponsible." Does anybody have any links or information on this?


I'm sure PTA doesn't have a clue how to be sarcastic either.

I have a friend who insists that Bowling for Columbine is a mockumentary. Who can argue with him?
Title: Re: PTA on Fight Club
Post by: Pubrick on January 14, 2004, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: halo_on
I have a friend who insists that Bowling for Columbine is a mockumentary. Who can argue with him?

tell ur friend to stop registering new accounts.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Finn on January 19, 2004, 07:46:26 PM
PTA came back out with what he said about Fight Club. To quote him:

"My comments about Fincher and Fight Club were stupid. Wishing anyone testicular cancer isn't funny and I did end up seeing the film. I had a problem with the violence and the cruelty -- I just couldn't get past it -- blah blah blah....I wrote a letter to Fincher apologizing for my comments.....he was cool about it."
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: modage on January 19, 2004, 07:56:12 PM
the violence in fight club?  what about the deleted scene in boogie nights where becky is getting the shit beat out of her?! thats some intense violence.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Pedro on January 19, 2004, 08:20:15 PM
Quote from: themodernage02
the violence in fight club?  what about the deleted scene in boogie nights where becky is getting the shit beat out of her?! thats some intense violence.

well i think one of the reasons he took it out was that he felt that there was already a lot of violence in the film, and he didn't need anymore.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: socketlevel on January 20, 2004, 12:03:13 PM
Quote from: Pedro the Wombat
Quote from: themodernage02
the violence in fight club?  what about the deleted scene in boogie nights where becky is getting the shit beat out of her?! thats some intense violence.

well i think one of the reasons he took it out was that he felt that there was already a lot of violence in the film, and he didn't need anymore.


it's also how you depict violence.  the violence in fight club is exploitive and made to look cool.  whereas the deleted scene in Boogie Nights the violence is horrific.  I really felt for her in that scene, she was victim to the beating.  In Fight Club the violence happens because the characters are drawn to it, the rhetoric of the film is somehow trying to justify fighting as a catharsis.

-sl-
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: modage on January 20, 2004, 12:08:30 PM
yeah, but that takes the shockingness away frome the violence.  the violence isnt particularly disturbing in fight club.  i think thats what bugged him.  i think he was more saying that you shouldnt treat subjects like violence and cancer so lightly.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: socketlevel on January 20, 2004, 12:25:09 PM
Quote from: themodernage02
yeah, but that takes the shockingness away frome the violence.  the violence isnt particularly disturbing in fight club.  i think thats what bugged him.  i think he was more saying that you shouldnt treat subjects like violence and cancer so lightly.


you've got the answer in what you just wrote, he takes the shockingness out of the violence.  he makes it ok.  I agree, the violence isn't as disturbing in fight club... that's why it's bad.  when violence is disturbing we are inclined to feel it is wrong.  when it is entertainment we are exploiting it.  what i'm saying and pta is saying are essentialy the same thing.  when you treat violence and cancer as entertainment you can influence the audience to not take these issues seriously, which they should.

in boogie nights we take it seriously and in fight club we do not.  the second part of your post is saying what i'm saying.

-sl-
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on January 20, 2004, 01:23:34 PM
the thing in FIght Club is that the main character isn't a hero, and hi alter ego is just worse - i think that Fincher or rather Palaniuk used people with cancer(but not only with cancer) to show and underline how the society is ruthless. The main character's personality split in two, and that happens to the victim when the molesting is severe. He was the victim of his lifestyle, he was slave to the lifestyle and needed those support groups to at least SEE people feeling emotions - he didn't find it elsewhere, the physician talked to him on the hallway, and sent him home without any pills, or at least advice what to do (he shouldn't do that). The girl (Helena B-C) is like him, which makes us think that this sort of "disease" isn't so rare. Norton's alter ego is the sociopat, the manipulator, the one who is violent to other people. There's lots of violence, but the end brings the redemption for Norton - he stands up for himself - killing his alter ego, he stopped being victim and there wasn't any reason for MPD.
Those men with testicular cancer are overweight and have enlarged breasts because of their therapy, but so do people who are just overweight but the "society" has no problem laughing at them. Overweight people have their problems, but "the society" needs someone to laugh at, so : cancer people are OK, they are sick, but fat people are awfull, ....(any insult is fine),... - people need somebody to be the target of their agressiveness. The scapegoat. In lack of just fat people, people with testicular cancer will do. To somebody Fight Club looks like entertainment, to somebody don't. PTA i think reacted very emotionally. When people are involved emotionally in something they tend to overreact, at least for some period of time. We all have been in those situations, but there were no cameras to document that.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on January 20, 2004, 01:30:49 PM
Well, here's my take:

I don't think the movie was making fun of the fact that people are dying of cancer. It does however, make huge fun of support groups, saying we're this cry baby society, and that even Norton, who didn't have a disease, still needed this bullshit support group, because of course he has been emasculated, and can't find an outlet for all the things bubbling inside.

Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ębrad on January 20, 2004, 01:47:31 PM
Quote from: SoNowThen
Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...


i don't know about that man. first off, unless you've personally experienced a disease or someone really close to you has, your opinion on how to approach the situation is invalid. to simply say "laugh it off" when you're mother is dying of breast cancer or sumthing is an oversimplification, nevermind the fact that it's not funny. i do understand what ur trying to say, i think. well, maybe not...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: molly on January 20, 2004, 01:53:28 PM
Fight Club doesn't make fun of people with cancer, if i remember correctly, it was voice-over(is this OK?) and Norton is telling his story - he is the cynic, not the director or writer.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on January 20, 2004, 02:06:10 PM
Quote from: ębrad
Quote from: SoNowThen
Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...


i don't know about that man. first off, unless you've personally experienced a disease or someone really close to you has, your opinion on how to approach the situation is invalid. to simply say "laugh it off" when you're mother is dying of breast cancer or sumthing is an oversimplification, nevermind the fact that it's not funny. i do understand what ur trying to say, i think. well, maybe not...


My birth mother and grandma both died from cancer, and my grandpa had it, beat it, then died from hep c. From the two types of people who I've seen deal with it, the level headed sense-of-humor folks always fare better. That's all I meant.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ębrad on January 20, 2004, 02:10:15 PM
Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: ębrad
Quote from: SoNowThen
Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...


i don't know about that man. first off, unless you've personally experienced a disease or someone really close to you has, your opinion on how to approach the situation is invalid. to simply say "laugh it off" when you're mother is dying of breast cancer or sumthing is an oversimplification, nevermind the fact that it's not funny. i do understand what ur trying to say, i think. well, maybe not...


My birth mother and grandma both died from cancer, and my grandpa had it, beat it, then died from hep c. From the two types of people who I've seen deal with it, the level headed sense-of-humor folks always fare better. That's all I meant.


okay, i get it now. i thought you meant more of a, um, well basically ur right.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: analogzombie on February 06, 2004, 11:35:41 PM
Quote from: Quoyle
I think that PTA has become like QT in the sense that they can both be snobs. They're fame and success has gone to their heads and sometimes they can be snobbish and self-absorbed. As if they're saying, "Whatever I say is right and everyone else is wrong".


but the thing is: what THEY say is right, everyone else IS wrong.  8)
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on February 06, 2004, 11:40:19 PM
Quote from: analogzombie
Quote from: Quoyle
I think that PTA has become like QT in the sense that they can both be snobs. They're fame and success has gone to their heads and sometimes they can be snobbish and self-absorbed. As if they're saying, "Whatever I say is right and everyone else is wrong".

but the thing is: what THEY say is right, everyone else IS wrong.  8)

I can see this being true for QT, but not really as much for PTA.  He comes across as much more humble than your average director, though to be fair, who's to know if that's how he really is.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on February 16, 2004, 02:21:19 PM
I don't think that the violence was intended to be entertainment in Fight Club. Fincher wasn't thinking "Okay, this is fun nonconsequential violence" was he? I don't think that's what he had in mind when he made the film. If we're going to point fingers when it comes to violence for violence's sake, point fingers at Tarantino with Kill Bill. To me, the violence WAS disturbing, the first time I saw Fight Club and now watching it again for the first time in a few years. Maybe the shockingness is no longer there if you watch it again and again as a 'fan.'
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: socketlevel on March 04, 2004, 12:52:28 PM
so you're saying that fincher wasn't trying to be cool with fight club?  are you fucking kidding me.  that movie's agenda is to set what is cool for people.  using brad pit and edward norton as it's conduits.  it is important to stress how everything in that movie is trying to be cool.  including the violence; the fighting part of the fight club is not motivating the characters in any way and holds no baring on the climax of the film (which is the split personality thing).  it exists to only be cool and exciting, therefore it's entertainment.

i agree with you on kill bill.  i guess that's a controdiction with me, cause i really liked that film.  i guess my only arguement is that the characters arn't intended to be three dimential in kill bill, so i guess i never took it seriously.  fight club trys so hard to be cool while at the same time appealing to the high art crowd.  sorry, i don't buy it.  there is no profound subtext in the film.  it was written in the vain of people who smoke a whole buch of weed and think they're onto something.  much like the matrix.  fincher should keep to the game or seven and leave deep subject matter to the filmmakers who actually speak messages of discourse, not create a facade of discourse covering their own complacency.

-sl-
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: SoNowThen on March 04, 2004, 12:59:05 PM
Wasn't addressing their own complacency kind of what FC is all about?



I don't understand this insane hardcore hate-on some people have for Fight Club...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: eward on March 04, 2004, 09:05:54 PM
part of the reason i hate it is because of how it's percieved as brilliant and how i felt so fucking cheated after seeing it, and i watched it 2 times after to try and see if i was missing anything......even if no one liked it, i would still hate it.  because it's a bad movie.  but its not bad in a charming way.  it's bad in a "smarmy" kinda way, similar to what ebeaman was sayin a few weeks ago about usual suspects.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: socketlevel on March 07, 2004, 03:35:02 AM
Wasn't addressing their own complacency kind of what FC is all about?

i think that's the smoke screen.

-sl-
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on March 08, 2004, 02:18:11 PM
Quote from: eward
part of the reason i hate it is because of how it's percieved as brilliant and how i felt so fucking cheated after seeing it, and i watched it 2 times after to try and see if i was missing anything......even if no one liked it, i would still hate it.  because it's a bad movie.  but its not bad in a charming way.  it's bad in a "smarmy" kinda way, similar to what ebeaman was sayin a few weeks ago about usual suspects.


Aside from the amusing uselessness of Fenster, I didn't like Usual Suspects. What did ebeaman say about it being bad?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: eward on March 08, 2004, 09:03:35 PM
he basicaly said it was bad in a very non-charming way, like there are some movies that are enjoyably bad becuz they dont take themselves seriously, and usual suspects takes itself very seriously, almost to the point of audience non-enjoyment.  kinda.  and another thing about it all being a set-up for a cheap ending twist and i dunno - just pure smugness in all its ugly and wink-wink nudge-nudge glory.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on March 13, 2004, 01:41:11 PM
The more I watch Fight Club, the more I don't like it.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: markums2k on April 27, 2004, 12:11:24 AM
I came to this forum when I found out about the Panic Room SE... and then I got sidetracked (surprise surprise)...

Anyways, Fight Club is cool as shit.  I think PTA, and all you haters, completely missed the point.  Kinda like how Kevin Smith completely missed the point of Magnolia.  Kinda like how everyone completely missed the point of Mallrats.  See?  A vicious cycle... er, wait a minute...

Nevermind.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: The Silver Bullet on April 28, 2004, 08:21:23 PM
Quote from: Shaun Digi
It's in the Rolling Stone article (circa Magnolia) where he wishes testicular cancer on David Fincher.

PTA appears to be as high as a freakin' kite in that article.

"I met his mother for the first time the other night, and I said I find it very ironic that her name is Mary, considering that she gave birth to Jesus, because he is, you know?"

What the Hell is that?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Pubrick on April 28, 2004, 08:30:48 PM
that tom cruise is the most gifted actor he's ever worked with. that he's been making hits for THREE decades and still pulls in the chicks. that he is extremely underrated and will only be appreciated after his death.

do u always interpret 'abstract' as "high"?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: The Silver Bullet on April 28, 2004, 09:47:49 PM
Quote from: P
he is extremely underrated and will only be appreciated after his death.

Maybe so, but would you compare him to Jesus? I don't think so.

And no, I don't always interpret "abstract" as "high". I wasn't only talking about that comment in particular, but about most everything else he says in the article as well. There are interviews that read as a series of abstract comments [anything, for example, with David Lynch] and then there are interviews where the structure of the sentences tend to suggest drug-induced ranting on the part of the interviewee.

And that article was one of them.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Pubrick on April 28, 2004, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: The Silver Bullet
Maybe so, but would you compare him to Jesus? I don't think so.

And no, I don't always interpret "abstract" as "high". I wasn't only talking about that comment in particular, but about most everything else he says in the article as well. There are interviews that read as a series of abstract comments [anything, for example, with David Lynch] and then there are interviews where the structure of the sentences tend to suggest drug-induced ranting on the part of the interviewee.

two things come to mind here..

1. i would gladly compare him to jesus. why should i worry that sum joyless person is gonna take everything i say seriously?

2. ur distinction between high-concept coversation and drug-induced rants is worrisome. even if he was on sumthing (what do u imagine? like coke or weed? don't tell me u think they are the same thing), it doesn't discredit his ideas on every conceivable level. a person really perked on up coffee could easily say similar things.

ur not even willing to take it as a joke, and at best, it's a matter of opinion as to his perceived mental state.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: The Silver Bullet on April 28, 2004, 10:25:10 PM
Quote from: Pubrick
i would gladly compare him to jesus. why should i worry that sum joyless person is gonna take everything i say seriously?

I'm no more joyless than yourself.

Quote from: Pubrick
a person really perked on up coffee could easily say similar things.

That's a fine point.

Quote from: Pubrick
ur not even willing to take it as a joke, and at best, it's a matter of opinion as to his perceived mental state.

Of course, I'm willing. I never said it wasn't funny [it was], I just said that I didn't think he was at his most...I don't know...chemically pure when he said it, or anything else, in the article. You can compare it to any of the other interviews and he's clearly at his most wired in this one.

But, yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe he was just perked up on coffee.

Joyless, he says...

:wink:
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: NEON MERCURY on April 29, 2004, 11:22:06 PM
five  things:

1. its ghey to hate fight club b/c of any pta connection
2. its ghey to hate kevin smith b/c of any pta connection
3.  its ghey if you are a male and you hate sex w/ a women.
4.  its ghey if you are a female and you hate  sex w/ a guy
5.  its not ghey if you are a male and  wish ben affleck would give you an oil massage........
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: El Duderino on April 29, 2004, 11:55:29 PM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY

5.  its not ghey if you are a male and  wish ben affleck would give you an oil massage........


in that case.....
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: mr_boz on September 30, 2004, 11:55:38 PM
i thought FIGHT CLUB was totally over-rated.  interesting for one viewing, but i felt 0 compulsion to sit through it more than once.  fincher's use of inserts is cool though.
--ccb
Title: pta's sorespot
Post by: private witt on January 18, 2005, 11:48:18 PM
How is it irresponsible to make a film that truely looks at the causes of violence in America?  Bowling for Columbine asked questions but didn't attempt to really answer them.  Fight Club is one of the smartest films ever made.  It looks at more seperate issues and ties them all together into the most beautifully filmed theusus on human phycology ever conceived.  I've seen Chuck P. speak and he only wants to make taboo things like cancer be ok by making light of them.  It's not that the people who have cancer are funny, it's the bullshit support group mentality that they all desperately cling to instead of being with people that really matter.  It's a religeon and it's a cult.  Anyone that submits to Groupthought deserves to be made fun of, especially in public.
Title: Re: pta's sorespot
Post by: RegularKarate on January 19, 2005, 12:49:54 PM
Quote from: private witt
Fight Club is one of the smartest films ever made... the most beautifully filmed theusus on human phycology ever conceived.


You should see more movies... Fight Club is good and all, but it's far from the "most beautifuly filmed theusus on human phycology" ever made.

Quote from: private witt
Anyone that submits to Groupthought deserves to be made fun of, especially in public.


That's some tasty bullshit.  You're pretty close-minded to make a blanket statement like that.  

I find there to be some serious problems with some group therapy programs, but some people work better with the support of others.  My parents belong to a "group" and they're not brainwashed.

I also know some people that go to this group called "church" and while plenty of them are complete idiots, a lot of them can accomplish individual thought while still belonging to the group.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Something Spanish on January 19, 2005, 01:51:24 PM
not to mention a lot of people who attend support groups ( esp/ the ones in fight club) have no family to spend their dying days with. chloe alone at home with lubricants...meat loaf whose family won't speak with him b/c his steroid abuse...so yeah. open your effing eyez dude.
Title: easy ladies
Post by: private witt on January 19, 2005, 03:36:18 PM
Whoooa, guys, calm down.  No need to get all personel.  There are women out there for you to be intimate with, trust me.  I'm be with one right now.  Blonde, 115 lbs. and tits like a thirteen year old.  I'll be photographing her with her clothes off soon here.  So, like, lighten up.  PTAs great but he's no Fincher.
Title: Re: easy ladies
Post by: RegularKarate on January 19, 2005, 03:45:28 PM
Two little things:

1. I wasn't being "personel".  You made a closeminded statement, I was just calling you on it.  No big deal.

2.
Quote from: private witt
PTAs great but he's no Fincher.


If you want people to "lighten up", you shouldn't make statements like this.  I'm sure you like tits and violence more than vivid emotion and brilliant dialogue, but this statement is a little daft.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Myxo on January 19, 2005, 04:06:25 PM
Paul Thomas Anderson..

Hard Eight: Written and directed by PTA.
Boogie Nights: Written and directed by PTA.
Magnolia: Written and directed by PTA.
Punch Drunk Love: Written and directed by PTA.

David Fincher

Alien 3: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
Seven: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
The Game: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
Fight Club: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
Panic Room: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)

David Fincher might be a great director, but until he can manage to come up with a great film that he's written and directed, he will never ever be in the same category as Paul Thomas Anderson.
Title: okay ya got me
Post by: private witt on January 19, 2005, 04:17:22 PM
yeah, that's true.  I guess I kind of hold them in different categories since Fincher doesn't write.  Now what if Fincher wrote or if pta sent a script to someone else?  What if we didn't argue over who's better in the upper echilons of art film and instead criticized crap like Garden state instead?
Title: Re: okay ya got me
Post by: SiliasRuby on January 19, 2005, 04:24:12 PM
Quote from: private witt
What if we didn't argue over who's better in the upper echilons of art film and instead criticized crap like Garden state instead?

You go to this place (http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=5769) to talk about that.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Two Lane Blacktop on January 19, 2005, 05:26:02 PM
Quote from: Myxomatosis
David Fincher might be a great director, but until he can manage to come up with a great film that he's written and directed, he will never ever be in the same category as Paul Thomas Anderson.


True...  Fincher will have to settle for being in the same category as Stanley Kubrick.  

 :wink:

2LB
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: meatball on January 19, 2005, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: Myxomatosis
Paul Thomas Anderson..

Hard Eight: Written and directed by PTA.
Boogie Nights: Written and directed by PTA.
Magnolia: Written and directed by PTA.
Punch Drunk Love: Written and directed by PTA.

David Fincher

Alien 3: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
Seven: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
The Game: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
Fight Club: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)
Panic Room: Directed by DF (Somebody else wrote it)


I have great respect for the work of both Fincher and PTA, but for totally different reasons.

While Fincher is pretty much a technical demigod when it comes to filmmaking, many of his movies are commercial "movie" movies (Alien, The Game, Panic Room). If they do have some personal perspective (Se7en, Fight Club) it's that of the writer first... which gets Fincher's attention and then he directs the shit out of it.

What I appreciate in PTA's films is the personal perspective he puts into his screenplays and movies, intentionally or not. It gives his work a soul, and a unique voice that is lacking in a lot of things these days. I'd really like to see what he could do with a script that he hasn't written himself.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: eward on January 19, 2005, 05:44:08 PM
yeah, i've always thought david fincher was a bit of a hack.  no enjoyment from any of his movies except for a little bit from se7en and the game.

Quote

Anyone that submits to Groupthought deserves to be made fun of, especially in public.


and you deserve to be beaten with a bat, especially for that statement.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on January 19, 2005, 09:07:26 PM
There's a reason the Fincher forum was replaced.  All I'm saying.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: Myxo on January 19, 2005, 09:07:49 PM
That's the difference between PTA and DF.

Anderson is a filmaker.
Fincher is a director.

I see a distinct difference between a guy who takes a screenplay and sets his mind in motion to put it on the screen. Some guys do it well (I personally think Fincher is excellent), but it really doesn't make that person much of a storyteller. If you look at the great filmakers, they all wrote and directed at least a few films over their lifetime. I think Fincher could write a good story, but he certainly hasn't chosen to so far.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 09:47:16 PM
fincher is one of the best directors working today - better than 90% out there
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on January 19, 2005, 09:56:43 PM
But he's still just a director.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 09:58:02 PM
Quote from: wantautopia?
But he's still just a director.


what the fuck are you?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on January 19, 2005, 10:10:00 PM
How old are you?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 10:15:27 PM
you're a fucking CHILD
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on January 19, 2005, 10:16:28 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtis
you're a fucking CHILD

I rest my case.

Oh, and boondock saints.

Now I rest my case.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cine on January 19, 2005, 10:22:36 PM
cowboyk, we're still waiting for that picture of you with marty and jack.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 10:29:08 PM
why do you all hate me so much?
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cine on January 19, 2005, 10:35:11 PM
Um I begged to see the picture way back when you told everyone about it. So this was well over a year ago. Felt now was a good time to remind you that we STILL haven't seen that picture. Would be nice..

(plus, Ono asked how old you were and you didn't tell him.. which isn't fair since you asked him and he told you.)
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 10:41:53 PM
i can still show you that polaroid -- if you're interested. i just need to scan it somewhere.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 10:42:27 PM
Quote from: cinephile

(plus, Ono asked how old you were and you didn't tell him.. which isn't fair since you asked him and he told you.)


how old is he? i never knew.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on January 19, 2005, 10:43:14 PM
I replied in the Closer thread.  You quoted my whole review and asked me how old I was (kind of rude, without a point, but that's beside the point).
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 10:48:35 PM
Quote from: wantautopia?
Iyou  asked me how old I was (kind of rude, without a point, but that's beside the point).


i dont feel that it was rude or without a point. i personally thought closer worked on all levels -- one of mmy favorites of the year -- I feel that if one has been in love the movie should communicate to that individual -- your criticism of the film made me think " if he didn't respond to this movie, maybe he's never been in love before." the reason for asking your age was to support or explain or confirm or deny my theory.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: MacGuffin on January 19, 2005, 10:48:58 PM
Quote from: wantautopia?
There's a reason the Fincher forum was replaced.  All I'm saying.


Well, at this point, neither of them are making films. But at least PTA's forum receives traffic.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: ono on January 19, 2005, 10:49:52 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtis
so, how old are you?

Look in the Closer thread.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 19, 2005, 11:15:01 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin
Quote from: wantautopia?
There's a reason the Fincher forum was replaced.  All I'm saying.


Well, at this point, neither of them are making films. But at least PTA's forum receives traffic.


excuse me, fincher doesn't make FILMS he makes movies -- theres a BIG difference bub!
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: private witt on January 20, 2005, 12:43:22 AM
has anyone heard fincher talk about his distinction between His films and His movies?  he see's the difference. and he knows FC and 7 are the former and the rest are the latter.  I'll hold out twenty years for the real (directors) cut of Alien three for the final word there.  It seems like a lot of people here have a lot of shit between each other.  Almost like their assesment of film is so easily shaken that they experience cognitive disonance, whereby new information causes them emotional harm instead of logically casusing them to re-assess what they origionally thought.  We're all smart.  We all agree on 99.999% of this shit.  This is why the Republicans always win.  They never in-fight in public.  They let us on the left use up all our energy fighting amongst ourselves.
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: MacGuffin on January 20, 2005, 01:19:47 AM
Quote from: cowboykurtis
excuse me, fincher doesn't make FILMS he makes movies -- theres a BIG difference bub!


The only thing he's making now is commercials, pal!
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: private witt on January 20, 2005, 01:22:53 AM
yo, that vexes the shit out of me!  I love fincher but commercials! they're even called what they are.  even CHRIS CUNNINGHAM makes commercials!  is it the system of the artists?  does everyone have a price?  not everyone can be Ryan Phillippe...
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: cowboykurtis on January 20, 2005, 01:46:10 AM
Quote from: private witt
yo, that vexes the shit out of me!  I love fincher but commercials! they're even called what they are.  even CHRIS CUNNINGHAM makes commercials!  is it the system of the artists?  does everyone have a price?  not everyone can be Ryan Phillippe...


give peace a chance
Title: PTA vs Fincher
Post by: private witt on January 20, 2005, 02:02:01 AM
Okay.  So.  Just we're all on the same page...we've all seen Peter Davis's 'Hearts and Minds', right?  

I actually live on Westmoreland Ave. if you can beleive it.  The irony kills me every day.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every [bottle]rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."   -President Dwight D. Eisenhower