How realistic is it to make a living working on movie sets every day in Los Angeles doing whatever...?
Very.
If your plan is to move to LA from someplace else and try to make your living there, my advice to be to amass as much professional experience as you can before you make the move. Indie films, commercials, music videos, anywhere you can get on set, do it. Not only will you have a body of experience to show to future potential employers, the people you meet working on these projects will be instrumental in landing you jobs once you hit LA.
It's a bit of a cliche, but it's true nonetheless; in the film industry, the most important thing is the quality of your contacts. That and showing up on time.
Not realistic at all if you have no background (pretty much what polka said). And surely stay away from hellaye if your plan is to come out here and make it. Do it DGG style all the way.
Quote from: POZER!Do it DGG style all the way.
I like this as a banner quotation.
Quote from: matt35mmQuote from: POZER!Do it DGG style all the way.
I like this as a banner quotation.
You don't love us, you
just love our DGG style.
I just can't imagine a higher certification of movie nerdiness that you would know what DGG means. At least, I don't know anybody outside of Xixax that would know what it means. The majority of passers-by to Xixax wouldn't understand it. Yeah, that'll show 'em who knows their stuff. Knowing that people would get frustrated over what "DGG Style" means would entertain me.
But see not really. True movie nerdiness certification to me would be the use of a term like Tarantino or Scorsese style.
Quote from: POZER!But see not really. True movie nerdiness certification to me would be the use of a term like Tarantino or Scorsese style.
True. Tarantino and Scorsese ARE cinema. I think everyone should make more movies like them.
Quote from: polkablues on September 20, 2005, 09:25:29 PM
...my advice to be to amass as much professional experience as you can before you make the move. Indie films, commercials, music videos, anywhere you can get on set, do it. Not only will you have a body of experience to show to future potential employers, the people you meet working on these projects will be instrumental in landing you jobs once you hit LA.
It's a bit of a cliche, but it's true nonetheless; in the film industry, the most important thing is the quality of your contacts. That and showing up on time.
Having a lot of professional experience is key. But your contacts back from wherever will more than likely lead you to nothing. People might look at your resume but that seems to be about it. My only "real" paid work in 5 months out here has been PA work that I got through a semi friend from high schools brothers girlfriend, who is a PC for a production company.
And what do you mean by 'whatever?' It's going to be way way easier to land paid PA work opposed to paid camera/grip/electric work.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. First, you say that contacts aren't that important, and then prove your point by saying that the only paid work you've gotten has been through a friend of a friend.
And secondly, I don't understand your question. I didn't say "whatever" anywhere in there, so I don't know how to answer what I meant by it.
But, soldiering on as though I follow your point, the upside of having those contacts from outside LA is that a lot of people you meet and work with will either be making the move to LA themselves, and you can scratch each others' backs, or they'll know people in LA, and can help you get your foot in the door.
And the real key, of course, is in whatever jobs you do get, be impressive. Work your ass off, even if it's an unpaid PA gig. Every single person you're on set with is a prospective future employer, and that time on set with them is likely the only job interview you're ever going to get. People like hiring people they like working with, so if you can achieve that, your phone will be ringing enough that you'll hardly have to search out work again.
Quote from: POZER! on November 02, 2005, 09:00:43 PM
Not realistic at all if you have no background (pretty much what polka said). And surely stay away from hellaye if your plan is to come out here and make it. Do it DGG style all the way.
snoop DGG?
----
and cine, i think he was referring to zerocool's whatever from the first post.
Quote from: Bob Loblaw on December 02, 2005, 07:43:36 PM
and cine, i think he was referring to zerocool's whatever from the first post.
I think you're right... but I'm not cine.
Is there something confusing in the water in this thread?
if all else fails you can always get work as Matt Damon's stand in.
Quote from: Bob Loblaw on December 02, 2005, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: POZER! on November 02, 2005, 09:00:43 PM
Not realistic at all if you have no background (pretty much what polka said). And surely stay away from hellaye if your plan is to come out here and make it. Do it DGG style all the way.
snoop DGG?
yes, that was the joke i made a month ago.
Yeah, first posters whatever.
Then about the contacts. From what I've experienced and seen happen to other friends, is that you really have to start from the ground up again out here. It's along the lines of "You worked with the DP whose so & so played in Sundance and won a Student Oscar... that's neat. Well it looks like our G&E dept is full. Sorry. Click." I guess if you've worked on some BIG stuff that might not be the case.
Quote from: killafilm on December 03, 2005, 01:47:50 PM
Then about the contacts. From what I've experienced and seen happen to other friends, is that you really have to start from the ground up again out here. It's along the lines of "You worked with the DP whose so & so played in Sundance and won a Student Oscar... that's neat. Well it looks like our G&E dept is full. Sorry. Click." I guess if you've worked on some BIG stuff that might not be the case.
Right, I'm not saying that you can go into wherever and say, "I worked with whoever," and get a job out of it. I'm saying that if you play it right, you can get work
directly from those people you worked with previously. Either they know someone and can give you a referral, or they made the move to LA themselves and got work, or maybe you'll have worked with someone who is primarily based in LA but went to wherever you used to be to work on whatever. In my case, when and if I ever do feel like moving to LA, there are at least two people down there whom I know can and will get me work, because I worked with them on projects up in Seattle and cultivated those relationships with them.
If you go to L.A., make sure you've saved up a decent amount of money, because the cost of living is quite high.
My advice is to take any film-related position, no matter how low it pays. Even be willing to work for free, if you can afford it to go without a paycheck for a few weeks. Be willing to do anything. Also, it's important to get along with people. There are a lot of talented film school grads trying to break in, so talent isn't enough -- you have to be able to work in a high pressure environment and deal with different personalities. Just focus on the work and don't make problems. Complainers don't last long. Silence is a priceless attribute.
I have two case studies of people I knew in film school who were driven and talented, but crashed and burned because they had shoddy social skills.
In one case, a friend got a job in the mail room at William Morris. Unfortunately, his personality wasn't flexibile enough to deal with the political nuances going on.
Another guy I know finally got a job directing some cable TV filler segments. He spent way too much time trying to get just one shot, and he got into a shouting match with a female producer, even called her a bitch. I think it's no coincidence that he never worked in TV or film again.
Relationships are important. Film school is a good way to make contacts, but a cheaper route is to take film related courses at community colleges. UCLA Extension offers a lot of film courses, taught by industry professionals (this is not a plug for UCLA Extension, by the way).
You have to be pro-active. While hunting for work, shoot footage on the weekend. Hone your filming and editing skills. Expand your skill base. Work on a script. One good script can open a lot of doors.
If you can't find work, make work. Also, be patient. It might take five years to break through, maybe longer. Drudgery and disappointment will be your closest friends, until you break through.
Successful people don't listen to negative people. They find a way to succeed.
Quote from: soixante on December 03, 2005, 04:24:04 PM
Successful people don't listen to negative people. They find a way to succeed.
This is the main thing to take away from this whole thread.
Looking at successful people (like whomever our heros may be), this is the only thing that they all have in common. Not that you shouldn't have a plan, but better this attitude with no plan than with a plan and a poor attitude. Attitude is key. What I mean is, have a plan, but be flexible, or else you might not catch a great opportunity. And think in long-term, not in short-term. I think too many people are ruined by their desire for instant-gratification. These are the people that go, "Man, I feel like making a movie!" and a week later, they have a movie, but it's shit.
Have plans (not daydreams, but actual plans like blueprints) of where you'll be in one year, in two years, in 5 years, after you move to L.A.
But mainly: "find a way to succeed." Just fucking find that fucking way.
Quote from: polkablues on December 03, 2005, 03:18:14 PM
Quote from: killafilm on December 03, 2005, 01:47:50 PM
Then about the contacts. From what I've experienced and seen happen to other friends, is that you really have to start from the ground up again out here. It's along the lines of "You worked with the DP whose so & so played in Sundance and won a Student Oscar... that's neat. Well it looks like our G&E dept is full. Sorry. Click." I guess if you've worked on some BIG stuff that might not be the case.
Right, I'm not saying that you can go into wherever and say, "I worked with whoever," and get a job out of it. I'm saying that if you play it right, you can get work directly from those people you worked with previously. Either they know someone and can give you a referral, or they made the move to LA themselves and got work, or maybe you'll have worked with someone who is primarily based in LA but went to wherever you used to be to work on whatever. In my case, when and if I ever do feel like moving to LA, there are at least two people down there whom I know can and will get me work, because I worked with them on projects up in Seattle and cultivated those relationships with them.
I'd still be skeptical. I have classmates and a small network of people that I "cultivated" relationships with out here, as did some friends of mine. Unless they're in a direct position to hire you, it's been my experience your chances are slim. I don't know what else to say, LA is different. I got a little lucky and worked on a short through Craigslist that had a union grip and one of the cam ops from Serenity, so those 'are' good contacts. But it's not like they can get you work or into the Union. Though the grip has pushed to get me onto some gigs before they went Union, it's just never happened.
You have to be patient. Sometimes contacts don't pay off for years.
Killafilm, you're off to a good start, meeting a union grip. That person might help you down the line, or he might introduce you to other people, or he can give you career advice. The "degrees of separation" rule works. If you know the union grip, you indirectly know everyone he knows. You also pointed out something interesting -- you never know who you'll meet on a crew. Quite often, professional cameramen work on shorts, commercials and even side projects for friends. I would also suggest working as P.A. for USC and UCLA student films. There are also film clubs, folks who make short films and critique each other's work.
If you can't get paying work, work for free on weekends on whatever projects you can find.
Another option is to make a short film, and put a notice on craigslist or somewhere and say that you need crew members, and have people submit resumes and demo reels. This could be a good way to make connections.
Yeah i'm just gonna stay here. My point of view has always been why go to the ultra hub of competition when you can carve it out where you came from? Why go into the fray when you can shoot arrows from the outside? I think this idea is as valid as the next, considering the amount of luck and hard work involved regardless. Oh yeah, I meant to include talent there too. Call me crazy, call me a pervert. But mostly call me naive...
To continue, I really don't see the point of wasting money on an expensive place like LA when I can rent equipment and buy film and blow my money that way. At least I'll have something creative to show for it and I won't dick around wishing to meet some guy to hook me up. Why hope to squeeze through the cracks like that? Why not make films and if they can get picked up, awesome, if not, at least you did something?
That is the other approach, just staying where you are and making things happen for yourself. Considering how cheap it is to make a digital feature, there's no need to beg anyone for money. The drawback to L.A. is that thousands of people are vying for a few spots. You can work your way up the ladder and never end up directing anything.
Even if you're successful in Hollywood, you can get pigeonholed as a writer or cinematographer, and it is hard to break through to the next level as a director. The studios rarely take a chance on someone who's never directed anything before. A guy with a $500 digital recorder can jump ahead of the competition simply by making a good film.
There are plenty of filmmakers who are not based in either LA or NY -- such as Gus Van Sant and Neil La Bute. Peter Jackson didn't start out in LA, and that didn't hurt his career at all.
Quote from: soixante on December 06, 2005, 12:15:37 PM
Peter Jackson didn't start out in LA, and that didn't hurt his career at all.
neither did being extremely talented. you're right, location isn't everything..