Cannes 2004

[coffeebeetle]

I think SoNowThen has a valid point.  I mean, let's face it: the majority of the panel weren't American, and it's not a stretch to think that MOST of the world hates this Administration, so it's quite possible that politics played a large role in this film winning the Palm...can anyone argue that it's NOT a political movie?  But I do think that this film has the potential to be a GREAT film at the same time, especially if it opens the eyes of voters in November.

[mutinyco]

There were 4 Americans on the jury, including the president. I guarantee you, if they weren't behind it, it wouldn't have won. Even Tarantino said it was the best. Personally, I like politics in film. Not always, but they are a rather important part of our society. Even Citizen Kane was HIGHLY political.

But my point has nothing to do with the film's overall quality. Quite simply, if this film contributes to the election's outcome it WILL be one of the most important films ever. Period. A motion picture that helped change history. It's just that simple. If this happens, this film will be taught in film school for the rest of time.

[coffeebeetle]

Quite simply, if this film contributes to the election's outcome it WILL be one of the most important films ever. Period.

Exactly.

[pete]

I think a lot of them Americans have this inflated images of themselves that they're hated/ misunderstood everywhere in the world, that's not true.  Dogville was severely anti-fundamentalist America (one could argue the same America Bush's representing) and it lost last year, despite Von Trier being the president of the jury.  I think the folks at Cannes are a little bit more sophisticated than your average daily show with jon stewart crowd.  unless they're in countries where America is directly responsible for their misery, most people in the world, I dare say, don't "hate" America or Bush, or don't really care that much either way.

[Pubrick]

You can see the whole ceremony here:
http://www.festival-cannes.fr/video/video.asx?uid=71399

yep and if anyone wants to see the jury explaining themselves u can check it here.

[ono]

It will only be a footnote if Bush wins. If he loses, and this influences the voting, it will go down as one of the most important films ever made.

This is what I actually think will happen. I believe this is the most important documentary ever made.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse there.  Here's why: you can't measure whether this film actually will have an impact, because you can't directly link those who saw it with those who changed their votes, or by how much this film was a factor.  Whereas, documentaries such as Harlan County, U.S.A. and The Thin Blue Line DID change lives.  The impact of those two films were more direct and concentrated, although the impact was only felt by a small group of people.  You would be right in saying there was some immeasurable impact for the world if and only if Kerry gets elected.  But the impact may still remain even if Bush wins.  This is why it's such a blurry issue.  Oh, and what mutinyco said.

[analogzombie]

i think the real issue here is that the film may never be judged on its own merits by the public at large. The win at cannes will undoubtedly help it to be seen in America but might it also create an even bigger backlash against it? I mean, there are those who will automatically agree with Moore's film and position, and those that will automatically disagree with it. But for those inbetweeners who would actually like to see and judge it for themselves this might bolster the anti-Moore camp. After all so much people decide what to watch based on tv reports and talking heads' opinions. The fact that this addmittedly anti-Bush film has gotten the highest endorsement from the greatest FRENCH film festival will no doubt be an easy fact to exploit. I can see people who might have been interested deciding not to see it, or at elast not to support its theatrical run, b/c they could dismiss it as another extreme left-wing anti-Bush hate fest supported by a nation who makes no bones about their hatred for the current American government.

It may be too difficult to seperate Fahrenheit 9/11 from all the anti-Bush broo-haha for people to take it seriously as a valid political comment. And it may be too difficult to seperate Cannes from the notion that its just another symbol of France's percieved hatred of all things American gov't.
It could prove detremental to both.

Michael Moore has valid points that should be addressed by our society. I think he is actually damaging his ability to be taken seriously by the majority of the nation by marginalizing himself so much. He doesn't do much to fight the image of him that is being created by FOX News and their ilk. His passion may be his downfall. I definately think more people will dismiss him outright if he continues to cultivate his radical persona. Michael Moore is most effective when he plays up 'the all-american guy from an all american family in an all american town just trying to follow the true american dream'

[ono]

Excellent post.  But...

Michael Moore is most effective when he plays up 'the all-american guy from an all american family in an all american town just trying to follow the true american dream'

This is a problem, too.  Moore really has put himself in quite the Catch-22, "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.  It's really unfortunate.  If he does play up the "average Joe" angle, he is criticized for reaping the benefits of the riches he's acquired in his success, while championing lower-class people and criticizing capitalism.  He can't seem to win.

[Jeremy Blackman]

We might be blaming the wrong person for Moore's image problem. He's the most dangerous thing to the most powerful interests in the country, and of course they will do anything to destroy his image. They haven't done it yet because he's a master manipulator of media.

[(kelvin)]

I don't know why a lot of Americans think that the French hate them or their governement. Because this is not the case. Remember the French newspaper titling on Sept. 12, 2001 "Nous sommes tous des Américains" -We are all Americans.
But it is true that a lot of Europeans consider Bush as an awfully stupid person that cannot even talk in whole sentences. This is a picture Michael Moore wants to paint as well. Godard has criticized Michael Moore by saying "Bush est moins bête que Moore ne le croit et lui est à moitié intelligent. Il ne fait pas de différence entre une image et un texte." (Bush is less stupid than Moore thinks and he [Moore] is only half intelligent. He confuses an image with a text.)

I think Godard is right. I don't agree with Bush's policies but I consider Moore as the Kenneth Starr of the American left. Also, it is, in my opinion, dangerous to portray Bush as a moron, for slyness and hence the art of convincing doesn't shine through the curtains of stupidity .

[analogzombie]

I don't know why a lot of Americans think that the French hate them or their governement. Because this is not the case. Remember the French newspaper titling on Sept. 12, 2001 "Nous sommes tous des Américains" -We are all Americans.
But it is true that a lot of Europeans consider Bush as an awfully stupid person that cannot even talk in whole sentences. This is a picture Michael Moore wants to paint as well. Godard has criticized Michael Moore by saying "Bush est moins bête que Moore ne le croit et lui est à moitié intelligent. Il ne fait pas de différence entre une image et un texte." (Bush is less stupid than Moore thinks and he [Moore] is only half intelligent. He confuses an image with a text.)

I think Godard is right. I don't agree with Bush's policies but I consider Moore as the Kenneth Starr of the American left. Also, it is, in my opinion, dangerous to portray Bush as a moron, for slyness and hence the art of convincing doesn't shine through the curtains of stupidity .

those are good points. I don't think the French people hate Americans per se, just as I don't think Americans hate French people. But I do think that's the impression the US media gives and the impression shared by most Americans, who admittedly don't really think for themselves. The reality I think is that Bush's post 9/11 world view is a narrow one and it alienates many nations including France. It's also a good point to not dismiss Bush as stupid, he isn't. A billionaire playboy who has had his life handed to him? ok sure, but not stupid. Bush is just the type of person that sticks to their convictions. After 9/11 Bush decided with his cabinet, who is evil and who is good. He made a plan for better or worse, to deal with terrorism and the new threats as he saw them. He believes he must follow these convictions through these 'troubled times'. This line of thought doesn't leave much room for political manuevering, which has put nations like Germany and France, who were eager to flex their newly developed international muscle, in awkward positions.

Bush is not stupid, he is blindly driven.

But the level of anti-Bush sentiment is reaching ridiculous heights lately. With Moore basically stating he wants to spoil the election, I think the quote was something like "I want this movie to come out in time to effect the election b/c I don't want the democrats to screw it up again", the Bush opposition is seeming more and more vicious for personal reasons and less respectable. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. As always Godard hits it on the head.

[Jeremy Blackman]

it is, in my opinion, dangerous to portray Bush as a moron, for slyness and hence the art of convincing doesn't shine through the curtains of stupidity .

There is a culture here that enjoys making fun of Bush, hyperbolically describing his stupidity. Moore is tapping into that a little. But I agree that that culture, by itself, is dangerous. There's a huge difference between saying Bush is a willing puppet and Bush is clueless. I think Moore recognizes how dangerously intelligent the Bush administration is, and I don't see any evidence that suggests otherwise.

[xerxes]

i personally am very tired of all the anti-french sentiment in this country.  the bigotry of this country is astounding, but it's the acceptance of that bigotry that really bothers me.  americans, for the most part, have a very limited viewpoint of the world, a "for us or against us" sort of viewpoint.  when i was in france this past winter i saw no ill-will towards me or american people in general.

[analogzombie]

i personally am very tired of all the anti-french sentiment in this country.  the bigotry of this country is astounding, but it’s the acceptance of that bigotry that really bothers me.  americans, for the most part, have a very limited viewpoint of the world, a “for us or against us” sort of viewpoint.  when i was in france this past winter i saw no ill-will towards me or american people in general.

I can agree with your sentiments except for one minor point. I;'ve been to japan, most of Europe, the Uk and some South American countries, I find that all people the world over can be ignorant. The difference is as Americans we do not necessarily have to deal with people from other nations. Everyone else does. Not only b/c they actually have many more nations next door and we have oceans that seperate us from the wider world, but b/c the US has a greater capacity to be self sufficient. We deal with the other nations in the world, yet we do not have to. Other nations, to stabalize their economies and their quality of life, are far more dependent on the US and other nations than we are of them.

Overall I think the 'Arrogant American' is a myth. Sure some people fir that mold, but that's true the world over. What I mean is there are Americans who hate other people simply b/c they are from another culture and there are those people in the world that hate Americans simply b/c we're Americans. I was bombarded with so much negative Americanism while I was in the Netherlands and Italy I felt as if I was personally responsible for Bush.

There are ignorant people all over the world. After all the majority of humans are stupid, insipid creatures. Just b/c the peasants now drive Hondas and Fiats does not mean they no longer exist. The mentality of ignorance is alive and well, and its not uniquely American.

[mutinyco]

I think America is completely dependent on other countries. Witness our trade imbalance and debt. The difference between us and other countries is that most citizens don't have to DIRECTLY deal with foreigners. We're able to create a cozy cocoon. That's also why we overreact to terrorism. Whereas every other country on Earth has experienced it at some time, we're acting immature by having gone ape shit and completely rewritten our domestic and international laws. And this was Bush's doing, and Moore's argument: that the administration used 9/11 to manipluate the public and hijack the nation's agenda.