so I have like a few artificial lights and I'm shooting quite a few fight scenes on vx2000 in the streets. has anyone shot at night before on DV? what were your conditions and what did you do to make the light sources logical/ convincing? any lessons learned?
script link here (http://www.msnusers.com/youusedtobeagenius/Documents/bar.txt)
please read it and tell me what you think.
I love using street lights as practicals. If you're near enough to enough of them, they should be sufficient for a VX2000 (maybe with a few reflectors). Otherwise, I'd just mount lights high enough up to simulate street lights. You can cheat them to get a wider throw than would normally be natural, and it'll still be believeable on camera.
Quote from: GhostboyI love using street lights as practicals. If you're near enough to enough of them, they should be sufficient for a VX2000 (maybe with a few reflectors).
Reflectors is right. Go out a night or two to check out your surroundings and see how it looks. We used a lot of reflectors but it took a bit of work to get it set up right and it looked good. Someone mentioned using headlights but then your footage just looks like someone's headlights are flooding it.
get a couple 1ks and make the street light practicals seem more intense by filling them in to be a little stronger. play with the light and dark areas and it can look really stylish.
-sl-
please check out my script and tell me what you think.
http://www.msnusers.com/youusedtobeagenius/Documents/bar.txt
ah I just realized the script link don't work. anyone feels like reading? 'cause I feel like some critical opinions.
me
You can also heavily diffuse your lights and use them to bring up your overall level. I think using China Balls at night w/ DV is a nice way to get exposure without looking 'lit.' You can also light some of the landscape, and kinda cheat that to backlight, bring up your levels, or whatever you could use it for.
the two times I shot I just used giant reflector boards and they looked nice and "unlit" though the actors' faces were really nicely illuminated.
Quote from: peteah I just realized the script link don't work. anyone feels like reading? 'cause I feel like some critical opinions.
yeah send it in my email link, i'd love to check it out.
socketlevelpictures@hotmail.com
-sl-
opinions from the two of you? any more?
pete,
the script is lean, no fat that i can see are on the pages (and that's usually what i see when i read other's scripts). i really enjoyed it because it's apparent that you know when to go in a scene (late) and leave a scene (early). I'd look forward to see it. the story really pushes forward constantly.
the only thing i would worry about if i were you would be some of the jokes within; not really my style. it's all subjective so i might just be talking out of my ass here but i'll give you some suggestions:
I think you'd have to be very careful with the way you shoot and direct the funny bits because it could come across amateurish. maybe you've already thought of this... but i'd do it very dry, take those situations seriously and the humor will be twice as good. if you try and really sell those laughs, the audience might turn away from it. The first obvious laugh at the bar is the prime example of what i'm talking about (the one about the money in the pocket). i'm not saying write it out (mainly because it reoccurs later in the script and that's when i found it really funny) but make it something that people laugh at a few seconds later, like they almost didn't realize what they just saw. to make that happen you might want to make the dialog preceding the joke less scripted and more natural. or let the main action occur off camera and we hear the sound effect exclusively; then he raises his hand back up. The audience will think, what the fuck was that? then when you do that joke later in the film, sell the laugh more (like cut to it for example) because it's a rehash of the old joke and demands a more immediate response.
other than that i really liked it, it was easy to read and i never got bored.
-sl-
not sure if this is a good idea, but here it goes:
http://s46.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2GCT9YVHCRGCH2DEQ1L8ZERM8T
5 min. scene, 150 megs. with sound and picture problems and temp. score (real score will be done by the dudes from Devotchka) but I just wanna see if the scene makes sense logically and if it's funny (not TV funny, but actually funny). 'Cause one fighter didn't show up so we changed the scene on the spot, did a lot of improvving and things like that.
and please tell me if the Reno 911 handheld thing works or not, 'cause I kinda plan on doing the whole movie like that.
I'm so good at taking honesty you have no idea. Be honest with me.
I think it makes sense logically, if one considers the context the scene probably occurs within. I think, though, that as a sort of establishing scene - it seems to be setting up a big fight - it's way too long, and the humor is uneven. The muscular guy with the Texas shirt is pretty funny, but in a very broad way that doesn't really match the rest of the performances. The guy who gets punched in the nose is funny, by virtue of juxtaposition. The rest of the scene is just sorta...procedural. In a very lax way. If you could chop two minutes out of it, I'll bet it would play better.
Of course, it's hard to judge it at all separated from the rest of the film like this, but on its own terms, it's weak.
The handheld stuff, for the most part, is fine. I'm not partial to shots where the camera drops to the ground -- too obviously 'operated' for my tastes -- but it's mostly negligible.
I thought the cut to the nose bleed guy was your best bit. It all does seem rather absurd, in a good way. I'll second cutting out two minutes, if not more. I'm sure about some of the editing, seems to be indecisive if it wants to be jumpy or normal. It kinda looked like your reflector board was 'swaying' in a couple of shots.
thanks for the words. if anyone else has words, please lay them out here. but to the two of you, was there enough tension between the two guys when the scene wasn't funny? I was trying to create some tension, then break it with the nosebleed guy, then all of a sudden double back and build it up again--did anything resembling that come through? please be honest thanks.
this scene is about 3/4 way through the movie, two more scenes before the final fight, so yeah it was a build up.
There was no tension until the end, when the guy picks up the note.
I agree with Ghostboy on just about everything he said... I'll also add that some scenes were way too over-exposed for my taste, even for the "Reno 911" look.
The tension really did pick up when he picked up the note, but it didn't end up taking me anywhere. I think if the point where he decides to back down doesn't flow right. maybe it's missing a beat or something. Maybe I'm not understanding the scene though... is he backing down? Or was that an invitation to fight later? Now that I think about it, it seems like it was supposed to be later, in which case that might need to be more clear because he says something like "yeah, and you've got a friend right there" and points to the Texas guy. For whatever reason, that made me think that the fight was supposed to happen right then and then he just decided not to because the guy's balls were tough.
oh, no, the whole movie begins as a flashback, as the kid walks to his fight and he's explaining to a bartender the backstory of the fight. He was supposed to just deliver the note. I guess you're supposed to know that the letter in his hand was a challenge letter from the first shot (and narration) would that help? So he didn't back down from the fight; it just wasn't supposed to take place right there and then. He did get scared of the guy's balls though.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more obvious it is... why would he bring an invitation to kick his ass right then? (I guess I thought that was the joke). I like the end better now, though I still think the scene needs to be trimmed a good deal.
I guess when you know that the letter is an invite to fight there's a bit more tension. It could still be trimmed though. Do you have more coverage? I think the easiest way to build up some tension would be through the editing. Cutting back and forth between the lead and the antagonist. Speed up the pacing a bit. Hope that helps.
Quote from: killafilmI guess when you know that the letter is an invite to fight there's a bit more tension. It could still be trimmed though. Do you have more coverage? I think the easiest way to build up some tension would be through the editing. Cutting back and forth between the lead and the antagonist. Speed up the pacing a bit. Hope that helps.
i agree with killafilm. the only jump cut that i thought worked was the one where the black guy holds up his hand and says hold off. the hand held camera worked but at times felt unmotivated and rushed. even if you're shooting hand held you should still follow the twenty degree rule (unless it's a motivated jump cut). The angle you cut to should be twenty degrees off of the previous one without crossing the axis. i'm not a stickler for these "rules" because i've seen great films break them, just in your case if you followed them (mainly the twenty degree rule over the axis one) it would have made for a better experience. and it kind of feels like you edited in everything you shot, you needed more coverage.
jump cuts can be hard though because there is an unexplainable reason why they work, and when they don't, they just simply don't. other than the one i mentioned i don't think they worked. i was constantly aware of the jump cuts. don't get me wrong, the nature of the jump cut means the viewer is supposed to be aware of it, yet not in the "oh that was weird" kind of way.
it was funny though, i liked it. the main character got better as it went on, at first i thought he was a little overly theatrical but that went away. the black guy is great. i really liked his performace. the macho guy was really bad, and the fourth guy seemed good.
i got the bit with the note, no problem. you can edit that to be much tighter i'm sure.
-sl-
The handheld aesthetic is fine, but there needs to be a little more care in the framing and movement of the shots. The framing at times has too much headroom, such as the second shot (zoom-in on the guy in the cap) or "floats" distractingly. Some of the little camera adjustments (the guy knocking on the door) call attention to themselves. Be careful not to point the camera into the sunlight, as there were one or two instances of camera reflections and lens dust on the screen. The zooms are too self-concious and not neat enough IMO.
The footage doesn't lend itself to editing as much as it should. It doesn't feel like there was much motivation or a specific pace or reason for the cuts.
I almost just got mugged. we were in this parking lot, shooting the first half of the first fight. There was me, Chris (the main guy), two little white guys George and Diego, and dude holding the reflector and his girlfriend, just hanging out. We were in front of some art gallery and those people were very nice even though we used their property without telling them. Then these two jackasses showed up, a white kid and a black kid, teenagers, and one kid was asking us dumb questions like "Can I be your intern" and insisted on coming in to show us "how to punch." We just kinda like backed down and laughed it off and told him nobody wanted to take a punch from him. He was like "so I guess I'm the man now". And then started telling us about how we gotta watch where we're at, but the irony is, that was next to where I used to live, a real nice Cambridge neighborhood (in front of an art gallery) and now I live in like the middle of the ghetto, and this kid was gonna tell us about his turf. We just all kinda played along, hoping he'd leave us alone. We did about two/ three more takes in the fight, then suddenly one kid picked up the knife on the ground (a prop in the background) and started playing with it. We patiently sat and watched his friend taking the knife from him, with another knife from his pocket, and wanted to show us how to "defend" himself with two pocket knives. We were all martial artists in and it was pretty laughable, but we were just kinda waiting for them to leave. Then one kid said he'd leave, WITH MY CAMERA. I was like, no way you're getting this camera. And the other two dudes were just kinda mocking them, but not overtly since they had both our knives. The main kid stayed in character the entire time and started talking more and more shit (he was also a little drunk) and the kid with the knives just started walking towards me, demanding the camera, I backed up, trying to stay out of his range, and then the rest of the dudes talked more shit and they left.
It was real awkward and embarassing. Guess we ain't shooting there anymore.
yeah.. don't leave knives lying around.
a bunch of screen caps (http://nomoretitanic.fotopages.com/?entry=612292&back=http://nomoretitanic.fotopages.com/?page=0)
can u repost that yousendit link? i just read this topic and now i'm interested...
so, I've tried shooting the mugging scene twice now--first time, as I've posted above, I was actually almost mugged/ stabbed, and then the second time it just wasn't good. So tomorrow night I'm trying again, but it looks terrible--my actors, a few of them haven't called back, and I can't find a car that's large enough to fit my reflector boards and stunt mats in. Man, am I doomed to never finish a movie in my entire adult life? MOPEY MOPEY MO PEE LESS POOP hope he eats two mo' penis too.
edit: yay everything worked out kinda. two girls volunteered to bounce lights for me and it made the set a lot funner 'cause all of a sudden we have girls there laughing at jokes. we got a lot of dudes in trucks heckling and, like that joke article from the onion a while ago, my main actor stayed in character and mocked them back, though I don't think I'm gonna keep any of it. it was funny though. then it took me forever to direct this one guy just because his movements aren't very theatrical and it was much harder to direct gestures and facial expressions than dialogues, I'll tell you that.
hey pete, can you re up that short? I'd like to see it as well. I am shooting a short on a vx2000 all at night, and am curious as to how yours looked.
I'm so far from being done. I have at least 8 more days.
I really like the screencaps and used this one to help build anticpation like what happens to all of the year's hottest films. Also did you shoot an indie action film? I must see it.
I did a little bit of writing and brainstorming for my friend's film "Contour" (http://thestuntpeople.com/films/contour.html) and I did some directing/ editing/ choreography/ shooting for Kaiju Big Battel (http://www.kaiju.com) but I have never made an indie action film on my own no. I love those two dvds that I helped out, but those are really my friends' babies, with completely different sensibilities.
I love fighting and action and choreography, but I like connecting and engaging the audience better. Until I can fully transform awesome fight scenes with spectacular cinematography and creative choreography and movements from mere spectacles/ dance numbers into human drama/ comedy, my focus will always be on the human. I remember the era when Jackie Chan was making fight scenes that were way too cerebral for the common man because too much happened too fast and to the layman all he saw was fighting and flips, then Jackie Chan began more overtly aestheticizing his fights with bigger sets and pyrotechnics, exotic locations, celebrity fighters, prettier movements, and a lot more slapstick comedy. I aim to end up where Jackie Chan left off in 1985, but with fully complex drama to go with the complex fights. I am nowhere near either, so I begin very humbly right now, making a short film, a very simple farce that deals with the pros and cons of the knifehand technique (aka the karate chop). And from there I hope maybe 20 years from now I'll make a film where the audience will finally understand complex choreography more than just "really fast asskicking".
but right now I'm worried about even more fundamental things--the next shooting day, gathering the actors, getting the location, SOUND (probably have to dub things in post, which will probably SUCK), and most of all, whether or not the story makes any sense and whether or not anyone will ever give a shit.
Quote from: pete on January 17, 2006, 11:46:37 PM
but right now I'm worried about even more fundamental things--the next shooting day, gathering the actors, getting the location, SOUND (probably have to dub things in post, which will probably SUCK), and most of all, whether or not the story makes any sense and whether or not anyone will ever give a shit.
These worries never end. No matter how experienced you get, these are a producer's constant worries. It's just what it takes to make a movie. Thanks for emphasizing SOUND, which just ain't nuttin' to fuck wit'.
Good luck with all your goals, pete.
thought I was so close to being done, and then tonight just made everything so far away.
due to my lack of money, everything in this movie had to be free and everything was a struggle. even trying to find a vehicle to carry all the equpments around was a struggle. today, for the third time, I tried to finish this fight scene at night to no avail. the first time we almost got mugged by people with knives, the second time we just flat out ran out of time because some folks had to leave by midnight. tonight we had adequete time but then it started raining and my camera's battery started malfunctioning. three times we tried to shoot this one scene. all the other scene ran very smoothly but the the scene most pivotal to the movie had to be ruined. tomorrow is the climatic fight. now I'm all timid and afraid. what I shot tonight was beautiful, but I don't think I'll be able to do a pickup shoot. I'm leaving for taiwan in two weeks, for two months. my lead actor leaves for barcelona on monday. none of the stunt guys will be free again for a while. and it's supposed to rain for quite a few more days. I might be able to wait until august, but by then, the contruction site we shot around will probably be finished. it'll be square one again.
please share with me your horror stories, with hopefully happy endings, to make me feel better?
trailer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xBHHKmbXfQU)
download it here (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=3492351C56FD03D3)