Anybody notice how often he set scenes in bathrooms?
Quote from: mutinycoAnybody notice how often he set scenes in bathrooms?
...and how they're always sparkling clean?
Yeah, I gotta find out who his house cleaner was...
i was gonna make a topic on this a while back.. then i came to think it was pointing to sumthing greater than what appeared, so i got interested in other things that lay behind the recurring toilet.
here's a few caps* (courtesy of cap man mogwai) and a sample of what i think about it all:
*if u see a red box, right click on it and press "show picture", there is nothing wrong with the links.
Lolita
pristine toilet, just another selling point in the tour of the house (such a commercial environment)..
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Flolita_toilet_a.jpg&hash=97674b4c784a472527d38d7ca0c34b196a98e784)
Sanctuary
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Flolita_toilet_c.jpg&hash=cfd2ac39b81517c075bd7fb3e4dd7e9e2ceaef45)
intrusion, comedy
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Flolita_toilet_b.jpg&hash=5d956431713925c0904b844b0a6282bfc72318da)
the first pic is great, it's the cleanest most pure toilet ever in a kubrick film, without a trace of dark connotations - apart from it's blatant fakeness. then humbert begins impurifying it with his thoughts, writing in there about his sickkkk shit. finally it becomes a den of lies and hilarity, humbert trying to keep cool in more ways than one.. riding out the fortunate loss of his wife.
strangelove
- george and chick in mirror:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fstrangelove_toilet_a.jpg&hash=2690e3dda0ed5babd7fcf0f0bfc3a501cbb22941)
ripper suicide
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fstrangelove_toilet_b.jpg&hash=5eaba5f43a6b828c09850bbaf52b45f65d199490)
there nearly wasn't a toilet in this one, but as it happens they only occur in reflections, george c scott in the background is in another room. this also happens to be the only scene with a woman in the film, and she's practically a servant.. even her voice changes between 2 distinct personalities. mandrake is grovelling for the secret Ripper is keeping, and which is taken to his grave. luckily outside, the reflection of his insanity is neatly arranged into a crossword.
2001
- a gravity toilet:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2F2001_toilet_a.jpg&hash=ae5c60b5f0ea346313c731f840143f35c7b56e47)
- an old fart:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2F2001_toilet_b.jpg&hash=4033329d10912c3b703352df2ea53a56880977a3)
the first one is a joke, but it rings true. and the second one is, like many things in this film, a sign of things to come for kubrick's career, the significance of toilet shots, and everyone else really.
clockwork
- alex slash:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fclockwork_toilet_a.jpg&hash=b19f906663f8a8cf1430f72e81736e32bec531ae)
- bathing:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fclockwork_toilet_b.jpg&hash=4909b8faf8bbce0c3109b2a730e62bbe576ba733)
the first one is the most natural of all toilet shots used by kubrick, like a drunk man taking a leak, it feels good.. the second one is where alex lulled into a comfort zone, slips and without knowing it brings his downfall.
barry lyndon
- and lady lyndon:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fbarry_toilet_b.jpg&hash=53bba94d079766febc4260d5973bc6c3d2ca6e6e)
- shaving:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fbarry_toilet_a.jpg&hash=1619cfe600e8b9a6b30daffc821bed2e63e03b1c)
bad things a comin, the first one takes place after barry is caught cheating on lady lyndon. he apologises here but we don't believe him. in the second, half-shaven barry is told of the news of his son's disobedience.. and his worst fears are realised.
the shining
- danny and tony:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fshining_toilet_a.jpg&hash=f7c1fc271c9d111a23a06855aa25275383c9b484)
- sexy chick becomes a scary chick:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fshining_toilet_b.jpg&hash=8df0e6da1586a477cd77695c0779aa1abb5b43e2)
- 2222-222:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fshining_toilet_c.jpg&hash=6f8b7b4918b193efb3dff90e3a783967eb9d155b)
- no way out:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fshining_toilet_d.jpg&hash=663938a520145c28f9e0ad9a9feeb4218ae8e9e0)
the king of all toilet films. the shining was made to revolve around this place. the first one is the first "supernatural" moment of the film, 'tony' the being who lives in Danny's mouth is telling him while he brushes, that the overlook is a bad place.. and we see the first flashes of blood, girls, and danny frozen in fright. the second, the temptress becomes the monster, shapeshifting encounter in room 237 when jack is drawn in by the beauty and repelled by the beast.. the same person. the third, jack meets delbert grady, formerly identified as charles, in another scene of duality feeling as jagged as the decor itself. and finally, the peak of the toilets in the film, wendy is trapped by snow while jack goes homicidal through the door, she slices him but screams as tho she was cut herself.. the most stuck moment in cinema history, and then jack freezes.
full metal jacket
trying to connect
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Ffmj_toilet_a.jpg&hash=cb4801e9fc87371cd356ce7eed69e49589c2857a)
- here we go:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Ffmj_toilet_b.jpg&hash=b8f316a62604adf9732a3e69da0913a0aca48223)
- after (http://w1.422.telia.com/~u42243560/kubrick/fmj_toilet_c.jpg)
firstly joker is voicing his concern or at least a noted observation on pyle's sanity, quickly glazed over with dreams of Cowboy's sister's rottencrotch. then it's pyle's suicide, sgt hartman dead. joker mercifully left alive. it had to happen. the effects echo through the rest of the film, including the final mercy killing.
eyes wide shut
- alice not happy:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fews_toilet_a.jpg&hash=0f1c23d21fe430c9dd542f7da9b5a69f5d52bfb6)
- reflection:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fews_toilet_b.jpg&hash=71c7f930c6839b5054d39fae58b0a1766e42423f)
here's the last of kubrick toilet scenes, it's also his first film set "now" since dr strangelove. as such the toilet shots again present us with the objectification of women, seen as an obscure object of desire which began in Barry Lyndon, and perfected in the shining (sexy/scary chick). the first here is as a beautiful statue so perfectly stuck in a beautiful pose that bill doesn't need to see her. the second, a different sort of statue, looking for signs of life bill only requires a nod of the head. by now of course, the toilet thing has run its course, kubrick only uses it twice in major scenes and occasionally in the background of the bedroom scenes. they are both very unconventional uses, EWS completes the cycle as his most revealing and ambiguous film. i'm in awe of how much there is to discover here
SO
what i've found about the toilet scenes is sumthing that lies at the core of kubrick's meditation on the dark side of man. in his case the animalistic, beastly nature. this raw unpredictability which is at once scary, fascinating, mysterious, and objectively beautiful. the illusion that we create, that we can ever be pure again. the toilet scenes themselevs are only the tip of the iceberg in all his films, and this is only meant to suggest the depths of what is really going on. to say he only puts them in there "cos it's a part of everyday life" is to not understand life at all, at least not the conscious part. after watching all his films countless times, u begin to notice more of what have been labelled trademarks: sum are recurring themes (plans gone wrong), sum are classic images (kubrick stare), sum are just jokes (CRM-114), but they all contribute to inmeasurably dense works of art. now, if u don't see any meaning in his works, fine, walk on, just consider this.. i'm not lying, and kubrick wasn't either.
I thought he showed toilet scenes because he knew that was a part of everyone's life, and its senseless to exclude that from the story.
Nick
Quote from: m©gwaigood job, my friend. you write the verses and i write the choruses.
amen.
can i help with the hook? or atleast the 14 minute guitar solo?
That was really great, I also appreciate those caps and this thread...
aw
hat fuzz wheely grape.
Quote from: Pthe king of all toilet films. the shining was made to revolve around this place. the first one is the first "supernatural" moment of the film, 'tony' the being who lives in Danny's mouth is telling him while he brushes, that the overlook is a bad place.. and we see the first flashes of blood, girls, and danny frozen in fright. the second, the temptress becomes the monster, shapeshifting encounter in room 237 when jack is drawn in by the beauty and repelled by the beast.. the same person. the third, jack meets delbert grady, formerly identified as charles, in another scene of duality feeling as jagged as the decor itself. and finally, the peak of the toilets in the film, wendy is trapped by snow while jack goes homicidal through the door, she slices him but screams as tho she was cut herself.. the most stuck moment in cinema history, and then jack freezes.
In TS, bathrooms are almost a character, aren't they? Those three scenes you talk about are key scenes in the film, not just fillers (though in K's films we hardly find fillers), the first one (Danny's) prepares you for what is about to come in the film, and in fact the reason of why the film exists, as you said the first glimpse of the supernatural. The Second one with the bathroom lady, she was presented both as a beauty and a monster, but what exactly it means? Isn't the hotel 'on Jack's side'? and more over, Why did Jack lie to Wendy when she asked him about it (room 237)? This could be the pivotal scene that made Jack to finally loose his mind. Third scene, with Grady, might be the key scene to solve this film's puzzle, (with several viewings) we realize that there are three periods of time here 20's, 70's and present, and apparently Jack has always been there as well as Grady.
Quote from: PEWS the first here is as a beautiful statue so perfectly stuck in a beautiful pose that bill doesn't need to see her.
Exactly, and more than anything what this tells us is that Bill takes things for granted, he doesn't have to look at his wife to know she's beautiful, later on in the bedroom scene he was so confident of what he had that he's sure that Alice wouldn't cheat on him, but not because he's sure of himself but because his wife would never do it, when Alice tells him about her fantasy and that she was willing to risk everything just for a one night stand his confident world falls apart.
Quote from: Pthe second, a different sort of statue, looking for signs of life bill only requires a nod of the head. u may say the shining is set in "Now", and ur right, but it's also set in "then" and "soon", otherwise known as Forever.
Interesting, maybe this is related of what I just said, that he took things for granted, even his job, between this scene and Alice's confession we see the daily life of the good Dr., taking care of a child, a beautiful woman and an olderly man, everything without the slightest worry.
Good post P, I'm sure there's more to talk about, we catch up later.
thanks to everybody who read it and got sumthing out of it, as well as those who pretended to read it and then drooled on the keyboard and said sumthing meaningless.
Quote from: Fernandobut what exactly it means? Isn't the hotel 'on Jack's side'? and more over, Why did Jack lie to Wendy when she asked him about it (room 237)?
the hotel, like showbusiness according to George Burns, is a Hideous Bitch Goddess.
Quote from: FernandoInteresting, maybe this is related of what I just said, that he took things for granted, even his job, between this scene and Alice's confession we see the daily life of the good Dr., taking care of a child, a beautiful woman and an olderly man, everything without the slightest worry.
yeah ur on the right track, but u should expand on the subject of what bill takes for granted to cover his whole journey and ponder specifically what both he and his wife take for granted in the last scene. that's if u wanna follow that train of thought.. ur right, but it's only the beginning of what happens to Bill.
the thing with kubrick is if u do grasp an idea about at least ONE thing that he has shown, it invariably is followed up later on and tied up to the entirety of the picture. so it's easy for everyone to follow one thread and think of it as tying the whole thing together, the way i've tied all the toilets and then made an observation on kubrick's themes in general. i addressed another completely different set of ideas on the AI Observations topic. but the truth is there are many.. so many.
Quote from: jokerspathI also appreciate those caps
the caps as u know were all mog, he did a great job..
here's an extra couple to reward those who didn't ignore this thread:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.422.telia.com%2F%7Eu42243560%2Fkubrick%2Fshining_toilet_f.jpg&hash=b68fa1e09f36b5e42b63419066a7ac78db21e3e5)
It's from the shining documentary by Vivian Kubrick, right at the beginning it follows Jack into his own toilet while he offers to brush his teeth for the camera. he's quite friendly about it. it's the most "unconventional" part of the documentary showing what it's like when kubrick is not around.. everyone is still in his mindscape. the doco must've been cut down to work better as interviews with the rest of the cast, but i think it's wonderful that kubrick's daughter is into toilets too.
Quote from: PQuote from: jokerspathI also appreciate those caps
the caps as u know were all mog, he did a great job..
He surely did, and excuse me for not thanking him directly. Thank you Mogwai, visuals help a ton...
aw
Quote from: Pur on the right track
Is that sort of like "urinary tract"? Sorry... couldn't resist. :P
Nick
Well...you're going to have to try harder next time
Man, guess I picked a good topic for this thread. Too tired to contribute anything though.
Filmnut121, I like your signature.
Quote from: Pthanks to everybody who read it and got sumthing out of it, as well as those who pretended to read it and then drooled on the keyboard and said sumthing meaningless.
i read the shit out of it, but my apologies for the drool if it was offensive.
Quote from: picolasi read the shit out of it, but my apologies for the drool if it was offensive.
no i meant ppl whose names begin with 'film'.
Quote from: mutinycoMan, guess I picked a good topic for this thread. Too tired to contribute anything though.
and i was too tired to start a thread on it altho i'd already written about it.. i get the credit then.
Never really thought much about Kubrick and Toilets, but after reading this thread I realize there's a toilet scene in almost every film!!! Crazy. While a prior poster's analysis about toilets giving us a view into the "animal" side of man (one of Kubrick's recurring themes) makes much sense, I think a simpler explanation is called for:
Kubrick liked clean, white, shiny surfaces.
Also, there's something otherwordly about a bathroom...it's the only room in the house that's decorated with sanity and sterility in mind, and not just comfort. The head in Full Metal Jackat where Private Pyle kills himself is almost an alien landscape, and its sterility brings Pyle's madness into extreme relief.
Staging scenes dealing with insane characters in sterile, sanitary rooms seems to be an ironic concept that Kubrick perhaps subconsciously found intriguing.
OK, I am rambling. Started off with a simple explanation and now getting more complex!
*update on first page*
added new pics to Lolita, Strangelove, and FMJ.
also rewrote the blurbs.
I like how the thread is now called "Sticky: Toilets" :(
Great work Pubrick.
I also want to point out that there are a lot of discussions in psychological literature about what bathrooms represent. I know Kubrick was a big reader of psychology, so he must have known about the many theories which surround them.
I'm just paraphrasing from memory, but here goes.
Modern man/woman has always tried to distance themselves from animals. In fact almost everything of the animal nature has been turned taboo in our modern society.
Our bodies (we've clothed them and are now embarrassed of them), sex (we do it behind closed doors, in the dark, under the sheets, etc.). Most of us are also embarrassed about defecating although it's a natural event, which all of us do. We are embarrassed by the smell of our own shit and bathrooms are really a place where we hide one of the only animal characteristics that we haven't been able to easily avoid. Murder, by the way, is also something that occurs naturally in the animal kingdom (usually a result of competition for females/mating), but is also taboo in our society. (BTW, please don't think I'm condoning murder by this comment!)
Another interesting side note is, for animals that have to squat to defecate, thereby putting themselves in a compromising position, often find a protected spot as they are easily susceptible to attack from predators. We too feel suseptible when pooping so all bathrooms have locks so we feel better protected and at ease. When people are asked which room in there house they feel the most at ease almost all say the bathroom.
When you put all this together with the ways in which Kubrick has used his bathroom scenes, your mind might explode from all the possibilities.
I couple of weeks ago, i had to use a toilet as disgusting as the one in trainspotting. just to piss out a few beers.
Quote from: ShanghaiOrangeI like how the thread is now called "Sticky: Toilets" :(
Nothing like a "Sticky: Toilets" thread in the Kubrick forum to bring some sense into this board. :-D
Quote from: coffeebeetleAnd just to clarify: you believe all uses of bathrooms in Kubrick films are intentional and meant to underline a particular theme (i.e. objectification of women?)
i'll assume u were talking to me.
i'll also assume u meant "eg." instead of "ie.".
if u meant 'ie.', then no.
it was a recurring spatial reference to reflect ongoing themes in his work, not one in particular. it's the room he always came back to, and he let the ideas
surrounding each appearance shape what would take place inside it. that's the basic role of the bathroom in his movies, a clear reflection of what's going on in the world of his films, especially post-Clockwork. that isn't to say it's the CORE of each movie, it is just another noticeable pattern that reflects one aspect of the nature of the whole picture.
this fractal theory is repeated here: http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?p=140887&highlight=#140887
i also believe no one should be skeptical anymore of the evidence that kubrick's films are so deeply detailed. it should be accepted with great enthusiasm like a scholar would amuse himself discovering the intricacies of Joyce. for this reason i envy the virgin eyes, they get to begin the whole process with unblemished amazement. they don't know however that it continues with admiration of its brilliance, and intensifies with the breakdown of its decay.
edit: oh u deleted it, anyway, the response still works as a general post.
It's my belief (Kubrick is my favorite film maker/director/ect...) that he intended to have scenes in bathrooms because before Psycho (which was the first film to show a toilet flushing), bathrooms were a taboo thing to add into films. Maybe he even did it to make the average viewer a little uncomfortable.
I always thought he included them to differentiate his films from others, trying to take the next step as a film maker.
does kubrick's movies "killer's kiss", "the killing", "paths of glory" and "spartacus" include any scenes that may feature toilets or anything related? thanks.
Spartacus has a great innuendo-filled dialogue between Olivier in a bath, I believe. The killing uses a locker room, but I don't think there are toilets. There's a lot of apartment scenes, so I'd bet yes. Killer's Kiss, hm I can barely remember it. And Paths of Glory I think is a definite no.
from ebert's most recent Answer Man column: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/GLOSSARY/563695685/1003/ANSWERMAN
The Kubrick toilet exception
A question for the Glossary:
Q. You pointed out in your Movie Glossary that in the movies nobody uses toilets for their real purpose. But of course you should have referred to Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut" as an exception to this rule.
In the opening shots, we see Nicole Kidman, a big movie star, sitting on a toilet and doing those normal things. And of course Kubrick knows that this isn't something we usually see in movies, and that is what makes it so effective an opening.
Sami Poyry, Tampere, Finland
A. True, and I've got another one for you: Kubrick shows a bathroom, toilet or latrine in every single one of his movies. Recall the low-gravity toilet with detailed instructions in "2001: A Space Odyssey." I should have mentioned that, but somehow it got flushed from my mind.