This is the official thread for the masterpiece "American Beauty". It won several Oscars including Best Picture, Director and Actor. I always thought this was the best film of 1999 and of the whole decade. I'm sure that most of you have seen it. But if you haven't..."you will someday".
i wrote this for my year book, about my experience in high school: "My job as a student required mostly masking my contempt for the assholes in front of the class room, and, at least once a day, retiring to the men's room so I can jerk off while I fantasize about a life that less closely resembles Hell."
This movie always seemed divided here on likability. Me, personally, I didn't like the movie. The acting in the movie is another matter. The film is a dragging process through a plot and scenes that are completely obvious in meaning. Instead of the movie acting for its story to dig deeper and make it more mysterious, it acts to please on first viewing. I couldn't imagine watching this movie again because its a blue print of another movie instead.
~rougerum
Wow, you're the first person I've ever heard say that.
Just a referral to the sentences before hand in saying that American Beauty operates its story in such an obvious manner by way of meaning, that it is more of a dragging through a story and showing a blue print for a better movie. Every single scene is completely obvious in meaning that I can't help but feel the "please" button is on all the time for everyone on that first time viewing. The movie seems to hold little in discovery for repeated viewings so what's the use.
~rougerum
Quote from: cecil b. dementedi wrote this for my year book, about my experience in high school: "My job as a student required mostly masking my contempt for the assholes in front of the class room, and, at least once a day, retiring to the men's room so I can jerk off while I fantasize about a life that less closely resembles Hell."
they let u put that in ur yearbook? sheesh, fucked up high school.
u wanna know what i put in my yearbook for my senior quote? didn't think so, but here it is anyway; "the key to life is sincerity, and if u can fake that u can do anything." thought it was funny at the time. not so sure about it now. my song was rable on, led zepplin. say, this might make for an interesting thread topic, unless we've done it before.
Quote from: ©bradQuote from: cecil b. dementedi wrote this for my year book, about my experience in high school: "My job as a student required mostly masking my contempt for the assholes in front of the class room, and, at least once a day, retiring to the men's room so I can jerk off while I fantasize about a life that less closely resembles Hell."
they let u put that in ur yearbook? sheesh, fucked up high school.
no they didnt use it. my actual quote is "the horror... the horror..."
confusion say!
Back to topic! :lol:
Quote from: bonanzatazconfusion say!
Confusion or Confucious?
Can someone tell me what that joke means? I never got it! I'm always left in the cold when Sandler and Watson laugh at that joke.
I hate, hate, hate not understanding jokes. When I'm in a crowd and someone makes a joke, 80% of the time (actually let's say 75% of the time) I don't understand the joke. I laugh anyway though because everyone else laughs at the jokes. If I don't laugh I look like a huge horse's ass. A prick basically. I was caught once in the act. I was driving people around in my car, and this man gave a pseudo-joke (purposely doesn't make sense) just to see who would laugh. So, he said the joke and no one laughed, but I laughed. When he revealed that he just wanted to see who would laugh at a joke that doesn't make sense, I was naturally embarassed. No, I wasn't embarassed, I was a moron. I wanted to go into the 'I'm a fucking idiot' routine. I wanted to smash my head on the steering wheel nine times saying "I'm a fucking idiot." Maybe if I was alone that would work, but the car was packed. I was caught in my tracks like a prick, so I told him I only laughed to make him feel better because no one else laughed. They all knew I was a liar, which made it even worst.
Quote from: MrBurgerKingCan someone tell me what that joke means? I never got it! I'm always left in the cold when Sandler and Watson laugh at that joke.
Confucious was a Chinese philosopher who became a venerable part of Chinese history while he is also a quoteable person...
"We don't know yet about life, how can we know about death?"
"If you enjoy what you do, you'll never work another day in your life."
It is one of these proverbs that this caller claimed he stole for his yearbook quote.. Often when quoting Confucious people say "Confucious say ....*insert proverb here*" And the "caller" mistakenly says "Confusion Say".
Okay, but shouldn't it be Confucious Says, or Confucious Said? Why is it Confucious Say?
because they're making fun of chinese accents.
So these racists are making fun of the asian accents?
for fuck's sake, bk...
I haven't gone burger hopping in a while, go easy on me! The mind doesn't work when its deprived of its essentials. The other day I actually heard the entire pitch of a telemarketer! I wanted to wait for a break in their pitch so I could say 'not interested,' but there was no break! Five minutes of continuous talking. Finally, when there was a break, I said no thanks and hung up. They probably said to themselves 'for fuck's sake, bk, you shoulda told me earlier so I didn't have to waste 5 minutes'
This place is like a McDonalds, full of idiots like me and cranky people like buddy holly.
Okay, let's get back to the topic. :roll:
i liked american beauty. i had no idea what to expect since the ads seemed to be all over the place. some making it look like a boring old people drama, some like a teen flick. and then it opened and i read a review that basically said "not what it seems". and off that i went to see it that weekend. and i loved it. was pretty blown away. brought a friend to see it again a few months later. started off the 1/2/3 punch that was 1999 americanbeauty/sept, fightclub/oct, and magnolia/dec (my three favorite movies of that year). i think i was 17 at the time and had just gone away to college. i think that fall was one of the turning points of my movie geekdom.
thora.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.empireonline.co.uk%2Fimg%2Ffeatures%2Finterviews%2Fbirch%2Fbirch3.jpg&hash=0076c7f0ac25a8024a8382aceab50a38b6fffc28)
Yeah, she's wonderful.
I saw the film after the oscars and was a bit disapointed, maybe all the hype around it ruined it for me. I thought it was a good film, but nothing special.
I thought this film was great. The score, the script, the characters...brutally honest. I knew a girl alot like Thora Birch (looked nothing like her, unfortunately) so the film hit me a bit more personally. And the ending....one of my top five faves!
You nailed it right on the head! :yabbse-thumbup:
i never knew disappointment like 1999. i so badly wanted to see fight club and magnolia in theaters and never got to. i almost missed american beauty but guilt tripped my mom about magnolia (this was after the oscars so american beauty started playing in a few theaters again) and I loved it. Maybe had I seen Magnolia in the theaters it would have overshadowed American Beauty, but i didn't so i thought this movie was the best thing ever.
American Beauty was the first time I left a theater excited about a movie. It completely blew me away. I agree to a degree with GT on the repeat viewing principle. But I really don't see a major quality point for film being what you get from it on the replay. If it's a really good movie it will communicate what it wants on the first try (with the exception of Donnie Darko which is still a great movie even if you have to watch it over and over to grasp the extint of its philosophy).
Yeah, I didn't get to see those movies in theatres either. But the fact is that just because you didn't see them in theatres, doesn't mean you can't see them at all. Movies always have another life on video. In fact, sometimes video can be better because you don't have any distractions around you. 8)
no, magnolia on the big screen would have blown me away. weird thing is, i saw it twice on video and i never cared for the film until i saw the widescreen dvd in a completely darkened room. that's the only way i watch it now (or on a rainy day). that and 2001.
Okay, I'm not gonna lie. I agree with you. :cry:
Quote from: RaikusAmerican Beauty was the first time I left a theater excited about a movie. It completely blew me away.
It wasn't the first time I felt such immediate gratification and giddiness over a movie, but man do I remember leaving that theatre buzzing. Such a good feeling.
Was that 99? Such a good goddamned year. I unfortunately did not get to see Thin Red Line in the theatre (which I believe was out in 99 as well)...
aw
I saw magnolia twice in the theater, but I didn't feel an excited crowd or anything. The second time I saw it there were only 4 people in the theater including me, it was the best cinema experience of my life
I love American Beauty. I even made a little homage short film as a project for a film criticism class (we were to recreate a scene from a film we saw during the semester; I did the ending). I'm no Spacey, Mendes, Ball, or Conrad L. Hall, though. :-P
Until I saw Magnolia, American Beauty was my favorite movie ever. Now, it's #2. Everything about AB is beautiful, though: the acting, writing, cinematography, music, direction. Just such a shame it was released the same year as Magnolia. Then again, Magnolia was almost totally overlooked at the Oscars, only nominated in two categories. Not that Oscars matter. Bleh.
Because The World Is Round
It Turns Me On
elliott smith AND the beatles. is there anything better?
This is my first post. 'Hi' all! Now, American Beauty used to be my favorite movie of all time. I used to watch it and was amazed after ever viewing. But, last month, I put it on expecting that same warm feeling I used to get, but it was no longer there. Something was different. I was noticing little things that just were borderline cliche (or maybe AB set the standards for new cliches?) The whole, 'beautiful freak' thing (Ricky's character) just seemed so dated. Of course he's weird and confident and deep! Would you have it any other way? Some of his lines were so wooden and probably sounded great on paper, but lame when they came out of his mouth. ("... video is a poor excuse, I know..." "there's just so much beauty in the world...") My ears were just a little sensitive to these things this time around. Also, the ending was nowhere near as fulfilling as the first couple of times. Okay, there's a gun shot and Angela's in the bathroom, Ricky and Janey are in the bedroom and Kate (was that Annette's name?) is outside. There's a gun shot, where is everybody? Why do they all come seperately? Weren't they bound to run into each other? And where did Angela go all together? We see her look, but nothing after that. And wouldn't Janey be a little more shocked to see her father's corpse there w/ a bullet in his head? And all Ricky can say is "Wow." I don't know. A little heavy handed if you ask me. But it wasn't at all the first few times I watched it. Well, I've got some more gripes if anybody wants to hear them. I'm going off on a tangent right now so I'll quit while I'm ahead. I look forward to hearing your responses!
One of the first films to really blow me away. I don't remember when I saw it...but it wasn't in the theatre. I think I recall seeing the 2 Video Copy of American Beauty Awards Edition and my friend and I rented it. It later became the 2nd DVD I owned.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaI love American Beauty. I even made a little homage short film as a project for a film criticism class
hehe, my college roommates and i made a mock american beauty movie too. for fun though, not class.
Quote from: themodernage02elliott smith AND the beatles. is there anything better?
Nope.
Quotethemodernage02 wrote:
elliott smith AND the beatles. is there anything better?
Nope.
What about sex with Brittany Murphy and Mira Sorvino at the same time?... Makes you think, right?
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaumQuotethemodernage02 wrote:
elliott smith AND the beatles. is there anything better?
Nope.
What about sex with Brittany Murphy and Mira Sorvino at the same time?... Makes you think, right?
You stay away from Mira. She's MINE.
QuoteYou stay away from Mira. She's MINE.
Well, ever since I saw Mighty Aphrodite, I decided that I would commit suicide if I ever get to touch any part of her with the tip of my finger, 'cause I firmly believe that from that moment on, life would never get any better than that. I would even challenge you to one of those medieval competitions if that meant I could be around Mira for a second.
As for American Beauty....... great movie. I can't say anything of any sense when I'm talking about Linda Ash... I can't say anything of any sense at all.
:yabbse-thumbup:
the thing that bugs me ablut AMERICAN BEAUTY is when the go from dv to film and the aspect ratio stays the same. i really like when movies that use both dv and film change the aspect ratio between 4:3 and 2:35.1 (wow! i'm a huge film geek!) PTA and spielberg changes aspect ratios, why can't others do the same.
but all in all i liked the film (i guess).
:yabbse-thumbup: :yabbse-thumbup:
This is hilarious!
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/DoH/ArabBeaut.jpg
...that has nothing to do with American Beauty. The quote's not even from the film. Only thing remotely related is the font. Haha. Osama feel pretty. So funny. Not a dig at you, Sydney. But you would think whoever did up that picture could be a bit more creative.
Well the title design was what was obviously taken from the movie. I thought it was really funny.
i agree 100 percent with GT's original analysis. and i'm not just saying that to make up for my bitchy comment. he's completely right about hwo the movie has no deeper meaning. there's no shading. it's just blunt and obvious. i liked it a lot, but i couldn't help but feel i was digesting something a little too shallow.
Quote from: pookiethecati agree 100 percent with GT's original analysis. and i'm not just saying that to make up for my bitchy comment. he's completely right about hwo the movie has no deeper meaning. there's no shading. it's just blunt and obvious. i liked it a lot, but i couldn't help but feel i was digesting something a little too shallow.
Me, too. It was done pretty nicely in a lot of parts, and entertaining, but very much a "light" movie. See
Storytelling for the real deal as far as the theme goes; Solondz even mocks
American Beauty's new-agey vapidity.
Quote from: godardianQuote from: pookiethecati agree 100 percent with GT's original analysis. and i'm not just saying that to make up for my bitchy comment. he's completely right about hwo the movie has no deeper meaning. there's no shading. it's just blunt and obvious. i liked it a lot, but i couldn't help but feel i was digesting something a little too shallow.
Me, too. It was done pretty nicely in a lot of parts, and entertaining, but very much a "light" movie. See Storytelling for the real deal as far as the theme goes; Solondz even mocks American Beauty's new-agey vapidity.
you know i watched storytelling for the first 20 minutes. i was with some jackasses who kept on making out on my couch so i had to do the whole tell em to stop-my parents are in the next room-kinda thing. but the movie was cool from what my distracted eyes saw. i think i'll have to rent it a second time though.
i loved welcome to the dollhouse. i mean LOVED it. i saw it as a7th grader totally coming from the same place as dawn wiener. i mean i used to think that movie was hot shit not just cold diarrhea (to quote the great ralphie). i showed it to all my fellow nerd friends and we all got a kick out of and even made my own 7th grade point and shoot ripoff of it.
that said, the more i watched it and the more the holy-shit-i-can-completely-relate-to-this buzz died off, the more i think it's mediocre to good at best. i suppose that is for a different thread, but the fact is, i think solondz has potential to be great and the reactions he provokes in his audience is really profound. so it would not surprise me at all if storytelling provided a much deeper more nuanced effect on me.
American Beauty is one of my favorite films but not in the top twenty. I found it to be entertaining and very funny at times. Lester's pathetic ordinary life has taken it's toll on him and he's had enough. The King of Real Estate is hilarious with Carolyn screaming, "Fuck me, your majesty!"
Sure, it's predictable b/c Lester lays it all out for you at the beginning saying, "My name is lester Burnahm and this is my neighborhood, this is my street, and this is my life. I am 42 years old, in less than a year I will be dead. Of course, I don't know that yet, and in a way I am dead already". And of course, " Look at me jerking off in the shower, this will be the highlight of my day. It's all downhill from here".
I like Lester's bonding with Ricky. His willingness to smoke marijuana at his age shows his desparation to revive his pathetic life. Even Ricky takes advantage of Lester by ripping him off with pot for the price of gold. G13 actually is a strain of cannabis sativa that the gov't. did develop and was not made up just for the movie.
well fuck me and call me sally. Thanks for the info.
I love this movie. Sooooo many quotable lines. But, alas, not in my top twenty either. This movie made me feel all blurry for a couple of hours after I saw it for the first time, and I love it when movies do that.
What's the music that plays at the beginning of the trailer?
Here's a trailer link incase anyone needs to see it:
http://www.mymovies.net/trailers/movie.asp?qual=high&url=/filmmedia/film/fid128/trailers/trid129/fh/high/high
Help!
that movie, first of all, shouldn't have won the oscars in the same year as bring out the dead, being john malkovich, magnolia, and three kings. secondly, all that "closer look on life" shit was cool when it was called "Ordinary People", to add a self-aware irony to it doesn't quite cut it. The movie, like Fight Club, and part of the Matrix, is that whole Hollywood movement where they're all bringing attention to how they're angry about being well-off because ooh lala, corporate ownership doesn't bring happiness. At least the other two movies had fight scenes in them. It's a big checklist of babyboomer fantasies, or a cinematic version of We Didn't Start the Fire. It started at first a little cliched, then the in end really cliched, but was masked by Conrad "God Bless His Soul" Hall and a good soundtrack.
Cheesy cheesy cheesy.
i think the movie overrated but i love for spaceys performance alone, so many great moments. the dinner scene(the way he stands up and goes to other side of the table to grab that plate) and that spliff scene when he just holds the smoke in his lungs when benning arrives and finally gives up and laughs and smoke comes out. priceless.
Quote from: SydneyWhat's the music that plays at the beginning of the trailer?
Here's a trailer link incase anyone needs to see it:
http://www.mymovies.net/trailers/movie.asp?qual=high&url=/filmmedia/film/fid128/trailers/trid129/fh/high/high
Help!
Its Thomas Newmans fantastic score from The War. One of my favourite scores of all time.
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0111667/
Don't listen to the IMDB review its actually a pretty good film.
What a great movie. I have to say this is the film that changed my entire approach towards movies. This was the first time that I was really blow away by a script, directing, acting and everything. It was the first time that I bought a DVD and watch it over and over and over agian. It's so awesome.
I love so many parts but the end is what topped it off for me. The whole idea that you never appreciate something until it's gone. And here, Lester lays, dead talking about all the little things in life you forget but Alan Ball makes it sound as if he's rambling or speaking jibber-jabber. He wants the audience to understand him and feel for him, and not be able to truely be one with him. Then the second you question his thoughts, Lester said... "You probably have no idea what I'm saying but don't worry... someday you will".
How perfect is that? I think movie was the best film of 1999. I wanted to post a thread about "Magnolia" and whine that it didn't get enough credit at Oscar time but you got me thinking about this one again.
I'm pumped. Gonna watch the DVD again.
Peace.
Quote from: pookiethecatthe more i watched it and the more the holy-shit-i-can-completely-relate-to-this buzz died off, the more i think it's mediocre to good at best. i suppose that is for a different thread, but the fact is, i think solondz has potential to be great and the reactions he provokes in his audience is really profound. so it would not surprise me at all if storytelling provided a much deeper more nuanced effect on me.
I felt the same way about Welcome to the Dollhouse after seeing Happiness and Storytelling. Definitely revisit Storytelling... I think it's his best film by far, and Welcome to the Dollhouse was just practice.
Maybe this should be put in the Green Screen since its going to be a long review but I'm not sure how many people read that thread. As you may know, I've been writing short reviews lately on many more movies here and I plan to expand the length and thus, hopefully expanding the insight. This will be a heavily biased review since it always has a special place in my heart and its also because it will always be in my top ten fav. movies to watch. Notice how I typed fav. as in favorite not best because while it is a masterpiece by my standards, it remains to some detractors to be a bit over the top in certain scenes. Some even have said that a story of the same ilk "Who's afraid of Virginia Wolfe?" was a much better execution of a marriage in trouble. What those critics seem to forget or they are completely dumfounded and blinded by is that "American Beauty" ambitions to be (is that right?) much more.
Of course there are the themes that don't disguise themselves at all-the breaking out of shells and not caring what others think, being themselves no matter how ugly others can percieve that to be-and the overall emotions of the characters that scream "the real world" phrase, 'when familys stop being polite and start getting real'.
I know every single line of this film and can recite it on cue, which can be a bit unnerving for some. There's nothing like the dinner scene or has been nothing as well done as the dinner scene in any movie since (maybe mendes' own 'revolutionary road' the third scene with michael shannon) and the writing is whip smart.
We all know the main story so I won't go into that too much but I don't know if you were surprised at the end on who (spoiler) killed Lester (end spoiler). I certainly was and at the end of the movie, with Elliot Smith Singing The Beatles tune 'Because'. I knew that I wanted to make people as blown away through my creativity that I had with my writing. I was 15 and I was on top of the world. It was a high I would feel a couple of times that year, with fight club, the strait story, The matrix and magnolia. This is the type of writing that like frank darabont said about "goodfellas" could be an immediate shot in the arm.
Finally the performances. First let me start off that Thora birch is still hot and I wanted to make love to her so much in that film, and yet I wanted to screw mena suvari's character. I was torn. From Brad to the smiley's manager, all the supporting roles are hit right on the mark. Peter Gallagher nails that specific type of douchebag where he's a big fish in a little pond. Chris Cooper's oscar was deserved and rightly so. I am very sad that bentley doesn't get more film roles from this, he is talented but after this film and four feathers he's forever typecast as the creep or the strait man. Mena suvari's character was emblematic of all the stupid high school bitches who wouldn't sleep with me. Good thing I don't give a shit anymore. Bleh, back on topic. Thora birch who will forever be enchanted with...she's my amy adams. Well, her, julianne moore, maura tierney, and sherlynn fenn. Her character reselmbled everything that really is and can be truely beautiful about the female species.
Now, onto our two leads Carolyn and Lester burnham, played respectfully by Annette benning and Kevin Spacey. These have to be two performances that will live on their resumes as milestones in their careers. Annette has gone batshit once or twice since "AB" but it really was perfected to such a T right in this film. There are many realistic touches from Carolyn that just seemed so viseral and real to me, the first time I saw it, I forgot I was in a theatre.
Now Kevin has range. Extreme amount of it and it hasn't really been capitalized on, save for this film, glengarry glen ross, and the usual suspects. He's coming out with a couple of films in the upcoming year that could transform him again. Many moments that you are with lester, you completely root for him. Although I guess you are supposed to, it felt like a real triumph when he conquered his boss, when he conquered his wife, when he turned down angela. It seemed to be the right thing to do in all those portions of time he was showing us. Just great great stuff, and he hasn't done something of that HEAVY HEAVY calibur since. Its time for a real movie comeback for him.
Just mentioning voyeuristic ideas and being one and what that means. There seems to be a lot of it, or maybe it only seems like that. This film illustrates what it means to be who you are vs. who the people who are viewing you think you really are. So, please, give this film another chance if you believe in second chances and maybe you'll 'look closer'.
Bleh, bad ending to that review.
Good review, Silias. You can really see the improvements in your writing the more you practice. Keep it up.
1999 4EVA.
I found American Beauty to be vastly overrated when I first saw it, but I haven't seen it since. The movies from that year that still hold a place in my heart are Magnolia, Being John Malkovich, Election, Iron Giant and Talented Mr. Ripley.
I need to revisit some stuff like American Beauty and Fight Club and see how it holds up 10 years later.
I've written alot, I just write they way I talk here.
When I'm working on a screenplay or my novel or something I give a shit about, my writing is better.
I recently read a review that said 'Revolutionary Road' was Mendes' apology to the world for making 'American Beauty'. I think he owes us at least that much.
It might be over-rated along with fight club but it does hold a special place in my heart along with the ones you also mention stefen.
Quote from: SiliasRuby on January 28, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
It might be over-rated along with fight club but it does hold a special place in my heart along with the ones you also mention stefen.
I hate that fraternity date rapers love Fight Club. When people like that like a film like this it makes me want to agree that it's overrated, but then I remember that people like that have no idea what the film's actually about.
i got to this through the 1999 anniversary link. i know this hasn't been posted on in a while.
Quote from: private witt on January 28, 2009, 06:55:44 PM
Quote from: SiliasRuby on January 28, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
It might be over-rated along with fight club but it does hold a special place in my heart along with the ones you also mention stefen.
I hate that fraternity date rapers love Fight Club. When people like that like a film like this it makes me want to agree that it's overrated, but then I remember that people like that have no idea what the film's actually about.
http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=4839.0
back in 2003 my first post on xixax was how i thought the form of fight club focused on "cool" film making style rather than substance, which spawned a lot of debate and hate. i stand by what i said then, it follows a long line of films like the matrix and clockwork orange that confuses quick popular appeal with depth. if films like this didn't have a sexy way of telling the story i don't think you'd get the "fraternity date rapers" you mention as part of the fan base. even american beauty suffers from this to a smaller degree, it is a film way more about the process of film making that masks itself as having something to say.
I think you're so wrapped up in pedantic assessment of film that you think Fight Club and American Beauty are about nothing beyond filmmaking.
Just because a movie is popular doesn't mean it lacks depth. It may be an easy generalization to say, but then again I think it's more about making wide generalizations than it is concerned with discussing the actual movies.
Quote from: Walrus on July 26, 2009, 11:06:48 PM
I think you're so wrapped up in pedantic assessment of film that you think Fight Club and American Beauty are about nothing beyond filmmaking.
Just because a movie is popular doesn't mean it lacks depth. It may be an easy generalization to say, but then again I think it's more about making wide generalizations than it is concerned with discussing the actual movies.
I just think fincher and mendes were so caught up in the film making that they couldn't see beyond the form. they kinda jacked off to money shots over and over w/o the ability to see what affect overindulgence has on their films. sometimes cutting quality shots aids the film and rhetoric even if it is at the expense of looking budget and/or traditional.
it's funny you use the word pedantic because i feel that way about the people that read too far into these films; almost as if they need it to mean something. it's just entertainment, therefore i am trying to actually attack the pedantic analysis of these films (even if i do so poorly). trust me when i say that i really feel this on a gut level. I just see it as cause and effect. I'll bet you a million dollars everyone approaches these two movies with the wow cool factor, crazy shots, cool dialog etc... then come to the "meaning" second, justifying their love of the cool to intellectual crowds. the "fraternity date rapers" mentioned before never get beyond that initial allure... and ironically they don't make a misstep of lying to themselves, even if unintentional. if the intent is to say something, and get rid of that douche bag crowd, then you gotta make the substance resonate a little louder, or tone the flashy down.
i would love to see a version of fight club and American beauty where form and substance meet. that can manifest itself either as the substance is altered to fit each film better, or as I've previously stated the style chills a bit to meet the lackluster depth. or they could not change at all, but were seen for what they are. i don't loath these films, even though admitidly in the past i might have said so in the heat of debate, i just don't see what the big deal is.
it's not popularity that gets under my skin. in certain circles i find myself defending the mainstream. it's about getting your head outta that entire debate. The Game and Revolutionary Road were both brilliant and very popular films (and as you know by the same directors i criticized) . both have drastically different depths to them, yet i loved them both immensely because the style suits the story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7oy1pY8PlU
that's somethin alright
I found it funny but I still love the film all the same.
Quote from: socketlevel on August 01, 2009, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Walrus on July 26, 2009, 11:06:48 PM
I think you're so wrapped up in pedantic assessment of film that you think Fight Club and American Beauty are about nothing beyond filmmaking.
Just because a movie is popular doesn't mean it lacks depth. It may be an easy generalization to say, but then again I think it's more about making wide generalizations than it is concerned with discussing the actual movies.
I just think fincher and mendes were so caught up in the film making that they couldn't see beyond the form. they kinda jacked off to money shots over and over w/o the ability to see what affect overindulgence has on their films. sometimes cutting quality shots aids the film and rhetoric even if it is at the expense of looking budget and/or traditional.
it's funny you use the word pedantic because i feel that way about the people that read too far into these films; almost as if they need it to mean something. it's just entertainment, therefore i am trying to actually attack the pedantic analysis of these films (even if i do so poorly). trust me when i say that i really feel this on a gut level. I just see it as cause and effect. I'll bet you a million dollars everyone approaches these two movies with the wow cool factor, crazy shots, cool dialog etc... then come to the "meaning" second, justifying their love of the cool to intellectual crowds. the "fraternity date rapers" mentioned before never get beyond that initial allure... and ironically they don't make a misstep of lying to themselves, even if unintentional. if the intent is to say something, and get rid of that douche bag crowd, then you gotta make the substance resonate a little louder, or tone the flashy down.
i would love to see a version of fight club and American beauty where form and substance meet. that can manifest itself either as the substance is altered to fit each film better, or as I've previously stated the style chills a bit to meet the lackluster depth. or they could not change at all, but were seen for what they are. i don't loath these films, even though admitidly in the past i might have said so in the heat of debate, i just don't see what the big deal is.
it's not popularity that gets under my skin. in certain circles i find myself defending the mainstream. it's about getting your head outta that entire debate. The Game and Revolutionary Road were both brilliant and very popular films (and as you know by the same directors i criticized) . both have drastically different depths to them, yet i loved them both immensely because the style suits the story.
I, for one, think it was pretty cool the way American Beauty shows it's environment initially as a suffocating "perfect" world for it's main character and slowly show glimpses of the supposed beauty he starts to find in it. Never felt distracted because of that, and I don't think it hurts the film at all. In fact it was refreshing to see a film portrait american suburbia with such visual flair. The real problem with American Beauty lies in the forced way in which the screenplay ties everything together at the end.
But it had to tie everything together at the end, its an American Movie for American Audiences. Or else people wouldn't feel vindicated at the end.
of course but then it could have been less forced. in any case, the fact that it's fun pretty much saves it.
Quote from: Alexandro on August 03, 2009, 12:54:16 PM
I, for one, think it was pretty cool the way American Beauty shows it's environment initially as a suffocating "perfect" world for it's main character and slowly show glimpses of the supposed beauty he starts to find in it. Never felt distracted because of that, and I don't think it hurts the film at all. In fact it was refreshing to see a film portrait american suburbia with such visual flair. The real problem with American Beauty lies in the forced way in which the screenplay ties everything together at the end.
The visual flair in the movie was a watered down version of David Lynch's vision in Blue Velvet. Going beyond that film, other movies like Pleasantville were more elaborate with reconstructing the suburban myth into an intricate visual design. That film made you focus on the cinematography more than American Beauty did. Comparatively, the visual work in America Beauty is just meant to compliment the screenplay. Since the script is forced and has characters who are marginalized into roles within seconds, the film comes off as piss poor. No visual work was going to help a script that begged for so much attention. If the story was more simplistic and allowed for more nuance in the portrayal of the family and their world, maybe, but American Beauty pretends to be sophisticated drama about suburbia but it felt tired when I originally watched it and still feels tired today.
i never liked the style of Fight Club, though Se7en is one of my favorites (at least it was - i think i would still like it today).
i liked American Beauty though.
don't piss on Conrad Hall's grave. :yabbse-grin:
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on August 03, 2009, 02:54:26 PM
The visual flair in the movie was a watered down version of David Lynch's vision in Blue Velvet.
dude, you can't just say that. at no point in time did sam mendes ever say to conrad hall "yeah, like that shot in blue velvet...but don't try as hard."
Quote from: pete on August 03, 2009, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on August 03, 2009, 02:54:26 PM
The visual flair in the movie was a watered down version of David Lynch's vision in Blue Velvet.
dude, you can't just say that. at no point in time did sam mendes ever say to conrad hall "yeah, like that shot in blue velvet...but don't try as hard."
i agree its not a watered down blue velvet. however, not only do some directors say that kinda thing, it wouldn't be a surprise for mendes to say it. think how many directors since the 70s have said "you know, like how kubrick would shoot it." even ones we like. when i've shot my films i've said that kinda shit, and yes i'm not proud of it.
Quote from: pete on August 03, 2009, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on August 03, 2009, 02:54:26 PM
The visual flair in the movie was a watered down version of David Lynch's vision in Blue Velvet.
dude, you can't just say that. at no point in time did sam mendes ever say to conrad hall "yeah, like that shot in blue velvet...but don't try as hard."
It was a comparison. I used another film as an example to make a point. I didn't say Conrad Hall was going for Blue Velvet in a certain fashion, but the film is useful to name because both films paint their suburbias with a lushness to the color tones. Blue Velvet just heightened the color contrasts of suburbia to give the film a dream dimension so that makes American Beauty a watered down version. Just my interpretation.
I also don't think it's fair to call it a watered down version of anything. I love the movie as much now as I did in 99. Anyway, it's still very possible that Mendes was thinking about Blue Velvet when shooting American Beauty, because:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/topten/poll/voter.php?forename=Sam&surname=Mendes
Quote from: ElPandaRoyal on August 04, 2009, 04:36:55 AM
I also don't think it's fair to call it a watered down version of anything.
Yea, convincing. In the end my statement is more fair than yours.
Oh, I wasn't trying to go into an argument (at least right now, because I'm full of work), it was just a brief opinion which I promise to develop later. My post was just to mention that Mendes is a fan of Blue Velvet. That said, I'm still not sure why you compared both movies in those terms.
Quote from: ElPandaRoyal on August 04, 2009, 07:14:02 AM
Oh, I wasn't trying to go into an argument (at least right now, because I'm full of work), it was just a brief opinion which I promise to develop later. My post was just to mention that Mendes is a fan of Blue Velvet. That said, I'm still not sure why you compared both movies in those terms.
I compared the films in terms of cinematography. Alexandro acted like American Beauty was revolutionary in its visual look of suburbia, but I was naming films of worthy comparision that came before it. Ultimately, both films are incomparable because their stories give each film totally different objectives, but on the level of suburbia look and feel, it seems to me that both films are very comparable. It's not a serious comparison because it's focusing on just one thing, but considering Alexandro vaulted the film up to genius stature because of its visuals, I thought the remark was worth one sentence.
are we too young to know who Lynch ripped off?
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on August 04, 2009, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: ElPandaRoyal on August 04, 2009, 07:14:02 AM
Oh, I wasn't trying to go into an argument (at least right now, because I'm full of work), it was just a brief opinion which I promise to develop later. My post was just to mention that Mendes is a fan of Blue Velvet. That said, I'm still not sure why you compared both movies in those terms.
I compared the films in terms of cinematography. Alexandro acted like American Beauty was revolutionary in its visual look of suburbia, but I was naming films of worthy comparision that came before it. Ultimately, both films are incomparable because their stories give each film totally different objectives, but on the level of suburbia look and feel, it seems to me that both films are very comparable. It's not a serious comparison because it's focusing on just one thing, but considering Alexandro vaulted the film up to genius stature because of its visuals, I thought the remark was worth one sentence.
my god!! i only said it was refreshing to see suburbia portrayed with such visual flair, I didn't said it was some sort of milestone of cinema...incidentally as I was writing that "refreshing" comment thought of blue velvet, but I was referring mostly to the way suburbia was being portrayed in the dramas, comedies and dramedies of the 90's, films where suburbia would actually be shot as boring and mundane. in things like happiness or stuff like that.
Quote from: bigideas on August 04, 2009, 11:40:24 AM
are we too young to know who Lynch ripped off?
Cocteau, kubrick, fellini, Resnais
https://twitter.com/dankmccoy/status/1470184157259120645