Manderlay - LVT's S

Started by Finn, August 09, 2004, 05:35:19 PM

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pete

#15
March 05, 2005, 07:41:40 PM
why not?
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

Jeremy Blackman

#16
March 05, 2005, 10:06:26 PM
He's making artificial (and convenient) separations. The "injustice and horrors of the human world" are absolutely part of the animal world... they're completely affected by it. They live in it.

I don't think humans causing suffering to animals is very different from humans causing suffering to humans. Especially if it's the causation that's important.

I think he's really trying to make an "art justifies animal sacrifice" argument but he's doing it really indirectly with his "what about the human world?" argument. Isn't he saying it's perfectly ethical to cause suffering to the animal world to represent the suffering of the human world? (And that's if we're separating the two worlds.)

I think what he did was wrong on its own terms. I haven't seen the film so I don't know if it was "worth it"... and even if it was on some theoretical level, that's a bizarre trade to make.

kotte

#17
March 06, 2005, 03:06:08 AM
Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanI think what he did was wrong on its own terms. I haven't seen the film so I don't know if it was "worth it"... and even if it was on some theoretical level, that's a bizarre trade to make.

You think he was wrong killing a donkey on-camera or is it his statement you don't like?

I have no problem with the donkey business. If it was, as Lars and Zentropa says, an old donkey who was put to sleep off camera by a veterinarian and then slaughtered on camera...a donkey who was going to be put to sleep anyways. Then I have no problem with it. I think it's more justifiable to kill an animal for a cause than say hunting which is only for pure pleasure. Nobody hunts because they need to today. It's fun!!

But I agree with the rest of your post. The argument he's making is not very convincing.

Jeremy Blackman

#18
March 06, 2005, 10:37:45 PM
Quote from: kotteI have no problem with the donkey business. If it was, as Lars and Zentropa says, an old donkey who was put to sleep off camera by a veterinarian and then slaughtered on camera...a donkey who was going to be put to sleep anyways. Then I have no problem with it.
I agree with you on that, then, if it's true (I didn't know about the "putting to sleep first" part).

So maybe it is his argument that I find offensive, because if he didn't cause animal suffering for his movie, he sure tried to justify it.

Quote from: kotteI think it's more justifiable to kill an animal for a cause than say hunting which is only for pure pleasure. Nobody hunts because they need to today. It's fun!!
I kind of disagree... I think killing an animal for food is justifiable (if it's done in a very respectful and useful way... which hunting rarely is, and farming almost never is).

And the idea of this trade between art and animal life still confuses me... I'm trying to find a concrete way that one might justify it but nothing comes to mind...

Ghostboy

#19
March 07, 2005, 12:07:32 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman

And the idea of this trade between art and animal life still confuses me... I'm trying to find a concrete way that one might justify it but nothing comes to mind...

There isn't any.

Finn

#20
March 07, 2005, 07:48:38 AM
This is another one of those movies that I know is gonna be brilliant but I don't have a clue of how the director's gonna pull it off. Such was the case with Kill Bill Volume 2, it was a continuing part of a first movie and it turned out great. I know Von Trier will do something beautiful with this second film but I'm not sure what it is yet.
Typical US Mother: "Remember what the MPAA says; Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words."

kotte

#21
March 08, 2005, 02:19:45 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: kotteI think it's more justifiable to kill an animal for a cause than say hunting which is only for pure pleasure. Nobody hunts because they need to today. It's fun!!

I kind of disagree... I think killing an animal for food is justifiable (if it's done in a very respectful and useful way... which hunting rarely is, and farming almost never is).

But nobody hunts for food today. Sure, people hunt and have a good steak for dinner but they don't have to hunt, they can get a fine steak from the supermarket.

I still think it's more justifiable to kill an animal for a cause than hunting.

rustinglass

#22
April 12, 2005, 12:24:59 PM
pictures of the set I found in some dude's blog:



Bryce drinks Coke.

"In Serbia a lot of people hate me because they want to westernise, not understanding that the western world is bipolar, with very good things and very bad things. Since they don't have experience of the west, they even believe that western shit is pie."
-Emir Kusturica

Finn

#23
April 14, 2005, 05:27:45 PM
13 pics from the set:

http://www.movis.cc/manderlay.html#
Typical US Mother: "Remember what the MPAA says; Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words."

The Perineum Falcon

#24
April 20, 2005, 09:18:02 PM
Se trailer

I haven't actually gotten it to work yet, so anybody care to comment?

(Loner, here's lookin' at you, kid.)
We often went to the cinema, the screen would light up and we would tremble, but also, increasingly often, Madeleine and I were disappointed. The images had dated, they jittered, and Marilyn Monroe had gotten terribly old. We were sad, this wasn't the film we had dreamed of, this wasn't the total film that we all carried around inside us, this film that we would have wanted to make, or, more secretly, no doubt, that we would have wanted to live.

03

#25
April 20, 2005, 09:51:28 PM
it is very nice and i am looking forward to seeing the film. i think there will be an alternate us trailer.

03

#26
April 20, 2005, 10:38:04 PM
Quote from: MeatballEven if it's film from a still camera.
he is in the trailer.

Pubrick

#27
April 21, 2005, 02:51:37 AM
Quote from: 03i think there will be an alternate us trailer.
haha yep.

and i'll just say right now, the predictable "von trier doesn't know what he's talking about" comments are all to be classified as bullshit, total utter meaningless crap.

download that trailer directly here:
under the paving stones.

rustinglass

#28
April 21, 2005, 08:52:13 AM
The trailer is beautiful.
I agree with P. Lars knows his shit.
"In Serbia a lot of people hate me because they want to westernise, not understanding that the western world is bipolar, with very good things and very bad things. Since they don't have experience of the west, they even believe that western shit is pie."
-Emir Kusturica

kotte

#29
April 21, 2005, 12:26:16 PM
Fucking brilliant!

And the music is equally fucking brilliant!!
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