Marilyn Manson

[AlguienEstolamiPantalones]

and the name thing, well what can i say i get bored a lot
and i am a artist this is how i vent

well, maybe if you just stick to one avatar or something, just so its easier to recognize you

for you i will, see we differ on a lot of things but still we manage to keep it cival

[Cecil]

cecil my point was that they are a studio creation, no differnt then britney spears so i proved that

no, theyre not a studio creation at all. but even if they were, what do i care they make good music. the sex pistols were assembled just like the backstreet boys were and well, you know the rest...

[godardian]

hey i dont like this "image" crap more than you do, but thats what the industry is like (which doesnt excuse it, im just saying) but dont come down on manson as if hes the only rocker to have a "fake image." come on.

they were originally called marilyn manson and the spooky kids but the record company wanted them to drop the spooky kids because the name was too long. hes the front man, i guess thats why it was "marilyn manson and." and everyone knows he has a big ego... what the fuck do i care

and his image is so phoney , its all about trying to impress people like you

he doesnt "impress me" i just like the music

by the way i was a teenager during the manson era and well even then i would rather listen to hip hop

oh well that solves it, since you prefer hip hop to manson that means youre right and im wrong. well guess what, i prefer manson to hip hop so... does that mean that now im right and youre wrong?

PS, its hard to keep track of who you are when you keep changing your name, you mind sticking to just one? thanks

All pop music is based on artifice. This is why Manson- despite seeming to me a rather second-rate Bowie at best- is so much better than Eminem. I think the "keeping it real" apologetics for the excesses of hip-hop is total bullshit. If they were keeping it real, we'd see documentary footage of poverty, racism, drug addiction, and misery. Instead, they're trying to transcend the harsh reality by glamorizing and exaggerating themselves and their surroundings. Not "keeping it real" at all, actually, but they have to convince themselves and others that they are, as if they needed an excuse.

That's why the Bowies and Mansons are superior- they revel in the fact that what they're doing cannot escape artifice. They're better at the game than the thuggish kids who think they're "keeping it real," which only seems phony in a way that's just not as fun as the phoniness of the pop stars who can enjoy and manipulate it.

This post is dedicated to the great Cindy Sherman, whose Untitled Film Stills went a long way toward informing my views on the topic.

[AlguienEstolamiPantalones]

first of godard, and i say that with the ut most of disgust

i never once tried to hide who i was , you cant do that here i dunno if you know that but your old posts convert over to your new name

and the rest what can i say i flung so much mud at you its almost not worth it since we both know you enjoy playing in the mud

the eminem thing well when it is all over and done eminem will be remembered as some one who added to pop culture and helped move a long a art form. I will take the hip hop cummunitys word for this since they have excepted him as a legit rapper and one of the best ever ta boot

as far as the people here who will speak ill of him well all i can say is sure he is bound to ruffle the feathers of sheep who are programmed to only name drop things that are deemed to be hip

i am doing my best  to show some class here , trust me i can shot some pretty low blows

so its up to you go right ahead and shoot back

[AlguienEstolamiPantalones]

by the way i love bowie and well by his own admission he is pretty fucking fake


but its the music i dig , it helps that i was not around to see him shamlessly trying to suround himself with lou reed and iggy pop

by the time i was born he was almost done with his berlin era music and he was about to enter the lets dance phase of his life.

around that time he admitted that the " gay " thing was just part of his image he was doing it to try and add to his mystiqe

sorry godard


anyways, i also hated his attempt at drum and bass that was kind of dumb but i did like that song " dead man walking" the melody was stunning but it was ruined by the choice of music he used to surround it

i liked that album hours, it was nice

he is very good at pop music , i would love to see work with bacharach

sorry dont get me started on bowie

[godardian]

around that time he admitted that the " gay " thing was just part of his image he was doing it to try and add to his mystiqe

sorry godard

As all pop stars do with everything they make public. You can't proclaim anything to the world on that level without it being to add to your image.

It's silly that you seem to think I like Bowie because of the gay connotations, which have been wildly exaggerated by the press and fans over the years. He claimed he was bi once, and apparently he slept with a few men and lots of women early on and enjoyed both at that period of his life. But in the end, it didn't matter what he was. What mattered is that through his music and image he toyed with concepts of gender and sex in a fun, fascinating, aesthetically rather defiant way that implicated the listener in questioning assumptions about such things. He certainly did more than, say, George Michael or even Elton John, performers more "gay"-identified than he is, to legitimately yet entertainingly address gender/sex themes in a way that expanded our culture's frame of reference.

I think Marilyn Manson tries to do something similar, but he just doesn't have nearly the finesse and fluidity and intelligence Bowie brought to the table.

For more on Bowie's chameleonism bringing about his artistic downfall when he decided to try to win over the Reagan crowd, see (allegorically) Velvet Goldmine, or (more literally) any record guide or any Bowie biography/discography. I think there have even been instances where he has verged on disowning the Let's Dance ere, where he admits that his eighties stuff is professional and empty, not work he's proud of, though it did get him a lot of lucre. Art and commerce had a very particularly unholy alliance in the eighties; guess which one suffered more.

[AlguienEstolamiPantalones]

velvet goldmine was shit, and yes i agree that manson is no where near bowie so much so that it makes me ill that people would draw a line towards the two

i think lets dance had some great stuff, and well sure he wanted to get paid

but modern love, and china girl and the theme to cat people

all fucking great

the rest of the 80's well no comment

by the way i think his china girl was much much better then iggys

bowie brought the  scarey exotic side to it

[bonanzataz]

bowie rocks. manson rocks. cindy sherman rocks.

and that's all i have to say about that.

[Sleuth]

Hey you guys, let's start a Bowie thread so that I can agree with Butterscotch on something

[AlguienEstolamiPantalones]

Hey you guys, let's start a Bowie thread so that I can agree with Butterscotch on something

should we hug ?

[Sleuth]

Could we?

[AlguienEstolamiPantalones]

Could we?

we just may have to

[phil marlowe]

[nevereven]

Now, i believe i am qualified to talk about this, as i have toured with marilyn manson as an assistant sound engineer.

After shows, he ties his hair back, puts on regular clothes, and sometimes even plays football with the road crew.

He accepts that it is simply an image, in fact, he asked trent reznor, from nine inch nails, how best to become famous, and trent replied, "be the most disgusting, controversial person you can." Guess what, it`s worked.

So stop claiming he is "for real"

He is a really nice guy who barely has a bad word to say about anyone, and his image is just that...an image.

[AlguienEstolamiPantalones]

that part about him playing football just may be the death blow to his image