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Anybody watch this? First Season just came out and i'm on disc 1. Pretty good so far.
Saw part of one episode in the middle of the season, Its on my DVD wishlist and I need to put it on my netflix queve when I get the space.
Soon as I get through The Wire this is going to be my new show.
After Season 1 got nominated - I think Cranston (sp?) in particular - they ran a marathon and I just kept watching.
I'm not sure, but I think there have been two season 2 eps so far and I just watched the second tonight.
The actor who plays Tuco (the crazy drug dealer) sells it to say the least.
The end of this episode was staged so perfectly - I'd speak of it but I don't want to ruin it.
so has anybody been watching this season? since the LOST finale killed any ability to discuss the future of that show, i think this one deserves more discussion. i think this season has done a fantastic job of being unpredictable, along with throwing in character moments you're never prepared for. Cranston deserves all the praise he gets but Aaron Paul has emerged as the character i'm most interested in (at least as far as his characters outcome). i'm about to watch the most recent episode so i'll have more to say soon. any thoughts?
it seems so weird this show ... is it really a must see??? It looks really fucked up (it's kinda marketed as a comedy but it looks like a drama but the premise is so ridiculous it's comedic ... I don't know what to make of it)
Quote from: Pas Rap on May 19, 2009, 12:07:12 AMis it really a must see???
absolutely. it's one of my favourite shows right now. it's gotten to the point where, if it doesn't show up RIGHT after it airs i feel frustrated and helpless. i'm totally addicted to it. see it right away. if you're not hooked by the end of the third episode i don't know what to tell you. it's hard to advertise because it flips between goofy comedy and incredibly serious, wonderful drama so deftly. like in the same minute.
season 2 spoils up to episode 10!
i just love the direction it's going in with jesse gradually becoming the 'good guy'... i'm so afraid of how this is going to end for walt.
Quote from: Pas Rap on May 19, 2009, 12:07:12 AM
it seems so weird this show ... is it really a must see??? It looks really fucked up (it's kinda marketed as a comedy but it looks like a drama but the premise is so ridiculous it's comedic ... I don't know what to make of it)
maybe try watching it?
this is a show that just gets better and better each week. i liked the first season but coudnt quite say it held greatness till this one came along. most episodes are like the The Gold Watch segment of Pulp Fiction--full of intensity and 'the jig has gotta be up this time' moments. it sometimes reminds me of The Sopranos in terms of tone. picolas is right, it's straight up addicting. no pun on the theme. and just when you think an episode couldnt be topped, the next one comes along and does so.
Quote from: picolas on May 19, 2009, 12:46:13 AM
i just love the direction it's going...
did you watch the latest? NOW look where it's going.
ok i just watched most recent episode and all i can say is WOW. this show completely changes the game with every episode. this will not end well.
i remember the first season being interesting enough, but i was only passively interested in continuing to watch. i'm really happy i did because it's rapidly heading towards classic status for me. i don't know how they can keep this up though.
SPOILERS FOR PEOPLE NEW TO THE SHOW FOR THIS WEEK'S EP
okay... that episode destroyed me. i don't know how it could get any worse, but it will. we know there are two body bags. this show is a real work of tragic art.
I just got the whole season on Emmy-consideration screeners. I can't wait until Saturday, when I'll have time to sit down and watch all of them back to back.
SPOILERS
so is it a gray area whether Walt killed jane or not? sure, she choked on her own vomit, but Walt shaking jesse is what turned her over on her back. if he had never gone back to the house she would still be alive.
jane's descent into madness seemed to happen a bit too suddenly, but damn did it make me cringe when her father left and she snapped out of sympathetic daughter and into cold bitch almost instantly. she had that act down to a science.
SPOILERS
Quote from: ddiggler on May 25, 2009, 10:56:27 PM
so is it a gray area whether Walt killed jane or not? sure, she choked on her own vomit, but Walt shaking jesse is what turned her over on her back.
that's the beauty of it. he can talk himself out of guilt partially. because all he did was not stop it. and she was the junkie. and she threatened him, and gave him no reason to believe she wouldn't hold his secrets over his head forever, but he did let her die. he is totally guilty. by excusing himself as he inevitably will 'for the good of my famliy etc.', he can go frther and further down this slope. this is his second kill.
Quote from: ddiggler on May 25, 2009, 10:56:27 PM
jane's descent into madness seemed to happen a bit too suddenly, but damn did it make me cringe when her father left and she snapped out of sympathetic daughter and into cold bitch almost instantly. she had that act down to a science.
exactly. it's not like it's her first time. i totally believe it. i think she was living in a state of.. 'i'm tied down to this apartment, this support group, this dad. that's my life. i'm not getting out of it.' but i think the need to escape had been brewing in her for a while.
the more i think about it the more beautiful it is that jane's dad (who is being played so wonderfully by Q), was right there in the bar.. the fact that they know each other is going to be very
very dicey in the future.
fine i'll watch :yabbse-rolleyes:
....
so, four episodes in (season 1 of course), and you guys are right, this series is really good, and while it may be a little predictable on the revenge side ((jerks mocking son in the clothe store, bmw parking space thief douche) oh, totally love that btw) I like how it goes from hilarious to the most dramatic think ever. cant wait to finish S1 and star with S2
once again, the xixax ppl get a star with this great suggestion.
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SPOILERS.
Personally, I blame Walt for Jane's death. It's his fault she choked on her own vomit. Sure, he didn't choke her himself, but he's the one who turned her on her back and he's the one who did NOTHING when she was choking. He's just as much to blame for her death as her drug habit is. I don't blame him. She could have ended him.
Walt's really turning into a certified badass lately. You can tell making money for his family is starting to take a backseat to craving power. Can't wait for the finale. I wonder who the bodybags belong to.
so....... that was impossible to predict
so i haven't been followin the second season of this but my girlfriend said about the finale that it was "a crock of shit" and that it "insulted her intelligence"
is there anything to what she's saying or is she's just talking stupid like women tend to do? (sorry bethie)
Quote from: ddiggler on May 31, 2009, 10:02:48 PM
so....... that was impossible to predict
http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/05/breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-post.html
read the first answers in this interview with vince gilligan and you'll shit yourself.
that was beyond words.
Quote from: squints on June 01, 2009, 02:09:16 AM
so i haven't been followin the second season of this but my girlfriend said about the finally that it was "a crock of shit" and that it "insulted her intelligence"
is there anything to what she's saying or is she's just talking stupid like women tend to do? (sorry bethie)
*vague spoilers*
there's a gut reaction that they dropped hints that led nowhere but i think the audience (myself included) misinterpreted the nature of the flashfowards sprinkled throughout the season. we're so used to cliffhangers and playing guessing games with serialized television. that's not what it was about. it was richer than that. it was about the fundamental inevitability of epic tragedy, on a scale outside of just his family, resulting from walt's choices.
cool beans.
i've missed a couple Season 2 eps - 3 episodes ago i'm for certain (the one in between Jane not telling her dad about her relationship and the one where she blackmails).
i can't even remember when or where that bear has popped up before.
re: the interview link
something tells me the finale of the series will be them setting up some huge event where everyone is about to find out what Walt has done and then cancer will have it's way and he'll die before anyone fully knows the truth. it'll turn out like it just seemed Walt was a victim of a "wrong place at the wrong time" sort of crime and then they'll feel guilty for doubting him.
Quote from: bigideas on June 01, 2009, 07:52:47 AM
something tells me the finale of the series will be them setting up some huge event where everyone is about to find out what Walt has done and then cancer will have it's way and he'll die before anyone fully knows the truth. it'll turn out like it just seemed Walt was a victim of a "wrong place at the wrong time" sort of crime and then they'll feel guilty for doubting him.
i highly doubt that. gilligan says he doesn't want to "let him off that easy" when asked about killing off Walt in the interview. the show is becoming more and more about consequences. at this point i think if Walt never had to pay for his crimes personally the show as a whole would be a bit of a dud.
Quote from: picolas on June 01, 2009, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: bigideas on June 01, 2009, 07:52:47 AM
something tells me the finale of the series will be them setting up some huge event where everyone is about to find out what Walt has done and then cancer will have it's way and he'll die before anyone fully knows the truth. it'll turn out like it just seemed Walt was a victim of a "wrong place at the wrong time" sort of crime and then they'll feel guilty for doubting him.
i highly doubt that. gilligan says he doesn't want to "let him off that easy" when asked about killing off Walt in the interview. the show is becoming more and more about consequences. at this point i think if Walt never had to pay for his crimes personally the show as a whole would be a bit of a dud.
so if that is the case then the options are only jail or death by murder/retaliation?
he can't be "punished" via cancer as he had it before he went down that path.
oh well, it's all speculation anyway.
Quote from: picolas on June 01, 2009, 02:18:05 AM
*vague spoilers*
there's a gut reaction that they dropped hints that led nowhere but i think the audience (myself included) misinterpreted the nature of the flashfowards sprinkled throughout the season. we're so used to cliffhangers and playing guessing games with serialized television. that's not what it was about. it was richer than that. it was about the fundamental inevitability of epic tragedy, on a scale outside of just his family, resulting from walt's choices.
continued spoilers..my initial reaction was that it was a crock of shit but then i got to thinking like picolas here. still, the coincidence of the crash happening directly above him was too much. the scene with the coincidence of Walt meeting Jane's father in the bar an episode or so back i thought was too much too but this was too much too much.
Spoilers..
Yeah, when Walt coincidentally meets Donald in the bar and they chum it up, I rolled my eyes, but it was a manageable roll. When the crash that Donald happened to cause just happened to land in Walt's backyard, I went blind from the eye-rolling.
:::.:..:.:: ::..:. <---- Fucking lame, but in braille.
i wonder if this was inspired by the space shuttle crash a few years ago.
it wouldn't only fall in Walt's yard, but debri would be all over for miles and miles.
i knew someone who had a roofing job in Nacogoches, Tx where a lot of debri fell and he said he found an astronaut's glove with a hand still in it. :shock: sounds like a very Lynchian thing (an ear in an overgrown area).
i did feel the bar/dad was a little too coincidental as well though.
same for butch meeting marsellus at the stop sign?
Quote from: bigideas on June 01, 2009, 04:06:38 PM
i did feel the bar/dad was a little too coincidental as well though.
same for butch meeting marsellus at the stop sign?
True. But I think Butch running into Marcellus is different since Pulp Fiction isn't really steeped in any sort of reality whereas Breaking Bad is.
I'm VERY curious to see where they go for next season. Part of me really wants Skylar to find out about Walt's business.
Quote from: Pozer on June 01, 2009, 02:31:44 PMthe scene with the coincidence of Walt meeting Jane's father in the bar an episode or so back i thought was too much too but this was too much too much.
Quote from: Stefen on June 01, 2009, 02:51:29 PM
Spoilers..
Yeah, when Walt coincidentally meets Donald in the bar and they chum it up, I rolled my eyes, but it was a manageable roll. When the crash that Donald happened to cause just happened to land in Walt's backyard, I went blind from the eye-rolling.
:::.:..:.:: ::..:. <---- Fucking lame, but in braille.
dudes, you're
missing out. this is POETRY. the meeting in the bar is sweet sweet tragic juice mix. if you think that's 'too perfect', never see a greek tragedy. skip shakespeare. and forget you saw magnolia while you're at it.
it's not an impossible situation.
these things happen all the time. we're only aware of the level of coincidence because we're watching it from this perspective. as the article says, walt has no idea he's responsible for these deaths. and he probably never will.
It's a pretty impossible situation. Maybe not alone, but coupled with both Walt actually MEETING and striking up a conversation at a bar with a man who's daughters death he's responsible for and then that father being so distraught he neglects his air traffic controller job, makes a mistake and crashes an airplane in Walt's backyard all while neither of them know each other is pretty impossible.
it's definitely improbable but not impossible. they were both leaving jane's/jesse's apartment so it makes sense they would go to the nearest bar. the plane would have to crash over walt because jane's father is an air traffic controller at the local airport. i think it was meant to be more symbolic of the indirect damage walt is causing the world around him. they hint at it with Hank mapping out all of the people in neighboring states arrested with walt's meth. these are all people with their own tragic stories made worse by walt's life decisions, the plane crash is just a unified personification of that.
exactly. it's very plausible if you think about it. but the point of these events isn't whether we believe them or not. it's about the ripple of walt's choices and walt's rationalizations, and how they culminated in a disaster no one could have foreseen. it's a perfect ending. and the bar scene is fantastic.
it's just too much.
nuh-uh.
Quote from: Stefen on June 01, 2009, 04:13:15 PM
Part of me really wants Skylar to find out about Walt's business.
I could see her being a badass.
AMC has started airing promos for season 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzVia...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dye2X...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc_8c...eature=related
Can't wait!
Got S1 for xmas, and watched the whole thing this weekend. Got S2 pre-ordered, and shall be DVRing S3 until I get caught up.
Really liked the bit where Walt is getting Chemo for the first time in a line of, practically brain-dead patients, illustrating parallels between supposed "good" drugs and "bad" drugs. Very interesting show, and very visually-driven too.
Proud of XF alum Vince Gilligan!
Despite the eye rolling coincidental season finale of season 2, I'm really stoked about season three. They film this show a couple blocks from my house so I've been keeping an eye out and trying to piece things together. Can't wait.
Anyone watching season three? It's started slow but it's really laying the groundwork for an epic season.
Spoilers.
Skylar knowing that Walt is dealing meth was a bomb drop. I like the way it was handled. She isn't going to tell Hank as long as Walt stays the fuck away. I had her going directly to Hank and the cops.
It's so crazy watching this show because it's filmed in my home town with most scenes taking place within blocks of where I live.
Yeah, it's great how strong the first two episodes this season have been.
Moralistic, tense and gloriously detailed... it's magnifying everything without losing the thread.
Odenkirk was pretty terrific in tonight's episode as well... glad to see he's still an integral part of the show.
Odenkirk has been so great the whole series. I hope he sticks around.
that pizza throw was hilarious. there's no way they could've planned that, and it was funny how it remained a plot thread the rest of the episode. this show has really found it's groove. i loved how they handled Skylar becoming aware of Walt's meth dealing, very understated and believable. i thought they dropped the ball last season in the way she didn't allow him to tell her, but her putting two and two together makes much more sense.
agreed that Odenkirk is a great addition to the show. in the first season it seemed that Walt couldn't do it without Jesse and Jesse couldn't do it without Walt, but now neither of them can do it without Saul.
good to know im not the only one watching, so far pretty great.
spoils
those deadly twins give me the creeps, why on earth did they pointed to baby's pic on the fridge? I feared the worst, I know the baby wasn't there but still.
hilarious line of the week: 'that is just perfect, pepperspray the man who's expressing his opinion under the first amendment'.
wish granted mr white.
Quote from: Fernando on March 29, 2010, 05:34:51 PM
good to know im not the only one watching, so far pretty great.
spoils
those deadly twins give me the creeps, why on earth did they pointed to baby's pic on the fridge? I feared the worst, I know the baby wasn't there but still.
hilarious line of the week: 'that is just perfect, pepperspray the man who's expressing his opinion under the first amendment'.
wish granted mr white.
Probably thinking of multiple ways to get at Walt if they weren't able to kill him at that time - go after people he loves, future kidnapping, the possibility of a baby crying and giving them up?
best show on TV (of the little television i watch).
second episode and there's already separate people out to get Walt AND his wife. loved jesse getting the house from his parents too.
Shit just got real.
Spoilers.
Holy shit. Tucos family are all a bunch of maniacs. I'm wondering where Gus takes this. His interest in Walt is based purely on the wicked meth he makes and nothing more but I wonder if he tips Walt off at some point.
I knew Skylar wasn't going to say shit. Hank would look like a dumbass if his brother in law was the biggest meth dealer in the state, maybe country and he didn't know shit.
Jesse and Walt about to start cooking again. Thats always fun.
spoils
yeah, tuco's family is nuts. and gus who knows what he will do when the time comes, this show has surprised us every time so far, obviously walt cant die but I wonder if they'll sacrifice an important character here, I hope is not his bro in law or jesse, but probably if they axe somebody it will be hank.
and yeah skyler no fucking way she would rat out walt, but then she got revenge the only way walt could be hurt now.
and jesse really took his acknowledging of being a bad guy to heart by buying cheap his parents house.
this season ive been forgetting about Lost till i get to the tv in the evening on tuesdays yet anticipate sunday nights in advance for this show. After ONLY THREE EPs, this season's already shaping up to be the best.
oh right, it's tuesday. what's it called's on.
Spoilers.
How great was the scene where Gus shows Walt his new meth laboratory?
damn, i just realized i forgot to watch Sunday.
no telling when they'll replay this (maybe it will be listed on imdb).
Quote from: bigideas on April 20, 2010, 09:50:17 AM
no telling when they'll replay this.
http://movies.amctv.com/schedule/originals.php?category=Breaking+Bad
Quote from: Stefen on April 20, 2010, 03:43:15 AM
Spoilers.
How great was the scene where Gus shows Walt his new meth laboratory?
yeah that was great, walt was drooling all over the place, only bad thing is it seems now we won't be seeing jesse and walt cooking together.
also hank has become so obsessive about heisenberg he's going nuts, lost that el paso opportunity, problems at work/home, poor guy; although he caught a break when the woman told him there was another RV registered; I loved his reaction.
Spoilers -
I think Hank is only after Heisenberg because he's scared to death to go back to El Paso. I think Hank catches Jesse soon.
Spoilers.
Wow. This may have been one of the most intense episodes of television I've ever seen. When Walt and Jesse are in the RV with Hank right outside I about had to turn it off. I couldn't take it. I was hoping and praying that it wouldn't be dumb and cheesy how they got out of that situation and it wasn't. What writing. And that ending :shock:. It's going to make this week unbearable until the next episode.
spoilers --
Hank is gonna get his head blown off. can't wait.
i caught up on Friday when they replayed all this season's episodes, and then forgot AGAIN to watch last night. arggh.
you should tie crystal meth around your finger.
spoilers
there were a couple why the fucks in this episode .. why the fuck didnt he tell Jesse's hoodlum buddy NOT to call Jesse?? why the fuck did they stick around to watch the RV destruction after Hank took off as his wife could have called him by chance or...who cares what else, get the fuck outta there??
brilliant episode otherwise. like Stefen, i had to pause it during that sequence. took the trash out, made my following day lunch, attempting to avoid it.
Spoilers.
What happens now? Does Hank know it was Walt who tipped off Jesse? Shit. Just. Got. Realer.
*spoils continue*
that's the question, it seems unavoidable that hank will find out sooner rather than later, but in between there it lies an axe over his head, and that'll prevent him from arresting walt or telling someone else on time.
at least that's my fear and has been this whole season, because it seems not possible to keep the same characters alive with all the shit that's going on, and hank will apparently be the one sacrificed.
this season has been stellar sans those why the fuck moments pozer mentioned, and there's some episode named kafkaesque, i can't even imagine the amount of wtfucks in that one.
*spoils*
did anyone else sense some homoerotic tendancies between walt and the new lab partner?
^^ haha
when they start mixing everything reminded me of the simpsons ep. last exit to springfield, when burns and smithers imagine themselves running the plant.
walt is currently shut out with his wife - though you kinda get the idea she's not totally sure (at least i did) - and here is a new person that cares about what he cares about as much or more than he does...or maybe it will be something where the other guy gets the wrong idea, makes a pass at walt, and walt flips out.
Quote from: bigideas on April 30, 2010, 01:49:28 PM
*spoils*
did anyone else sense some homoerotic tendancies between walt and the new lab partner?
i think you're going a *little* too far with what you're calling it but yeah, i sensed the slightest hint of sexual tension for sure. but more on the lab partner. walt is stone cold straight.
i didn't take it that way, i saw it as a mutual love for the science. they used classic techniques to convey hidden attraction but i think in this case it was in an attempt to make both men shy about revealing their passion. like it was something they kept buried inside, but as they talked you could see each of them testing the waters of the each others depth. after feeling each other out, they opened up and were worthy of outward expression declaring said love. i really enjoyed that scene and the montage leading up to it.
interesting how the end of the movie is such a different grammatical attitude then the beginning, i love how seemless this show does stuff like that. i really think this is one of the best breaking bad episodes from all three seasons.
oh.
My.
GOD.
actually caught it last night........i had to jump up and do a tiger woods fist pump.
the little things like the bullet, etc, usually pay off within the episodes, but I'm beginning to think it should almost be called "cutting the crust off the pb&j show."
anyone remember the scene where Walt got a band-aid out of the pool - was this just to show his meticulousness?
HOLY SHIT!!
best current tv show. why are there so few of us watching this???
spoils
I did the fist pump too, fucking intense, I about died watching the last 7 minutes, even the elevator scene where Hank thanks for jesse dumping the charges. then the parking lot scene was heart stopping, I'm fucking happy the twins are no more.
oh, and silly me thought there was no way walt and jesse could cook together again. btw, aaron paul's acting was great on this one, everybody's is, but his was awesome.
*spoils*
Quote from: Fernando on May 03, 2010, 03:13:21 PM
HOLY SHIT!!
best current tv show. why are there so few of us watching this???
spoils
I'm fucking happy the twins are no more.
you didn't stay to watch the previews?
it looked like the one who got crushed between cars survived.
Spoils.
So who tipped off Hank?
"your meth is good jesse, as good as mine"
this almost made me cry, then i realized how ridiculous that is. aaron paul's intensity was completely over the top and i loved it.
what an ending!
Quote from: Stefen on May 03, 2010, 05:52:08 PM
Spoils.
So who tipped off Hank?
I'm guessing it was Mike, the guy who works for Saul. Out of the few people that knew Hank's impending fate, he seems like the one guy who might actually bother letting him know.
best show on tv indeed!
even tho it's just a tv show, it has helped revive my love for cinema.... weird, i know.
spoils
gonna do an old school pubrick style review (can't believe that never caught on!)
LOVED:
- opening scene with young twins
- jesse's speech about what he's gonna do to hank.
- the scene after hank gives his side of what happened, then gets into the elevator with marie waiting and they stand there as the doors close, then cuts to hank breaking down into tears, then cuts to the elevator doors opening and they're still just standing there.
- jesse flipping so quick from telling walt off, to saying "ok, i'll be your partner again". (you're meth is good. as good as mine)
- the brothers testing out the vests.
- the last scene in the parking lot. holy fuck!!!
HATED:
- absolutely nothing.
Quote from: Stefen on May 03, 2010, 05:52:08 PM
Spoils.
So who tipped off Hank?
it's gotta be gus. even tho he gave up hank, he showed he had a conscience when he gave money to hanks cancer fund for walt in the last season.... the only other person that could be considered is sauls cleaner who was following walt, but he and saul had nothing to gain by tipping hank off.
again, best show on tv,.. maybe ever.
Quote from: Fernando on May 03, 2010, 03:13:21 PM
why are there so few of us watching this???
seriously. everyone needs to get on board. this thread would own
Movie Shame Lames and
I Use Movie Quotes That Everyone's Sick Of right now.
i cant believe modage isnt into this yet. canteen it would be his flavorite show evs. pubrick would be doing his own pukey styles reviews which actually would work perfectly with this kind of show. there are only a handful of HATEDs in every couple of episodes, but need to be pointed out nonetheless. great TV show writing like this deserves to be nitpicked for proof it aint this perfect thing!
i think i said it before but it's got Sopranos like depth with these Pulp Fictiony type moments. the good PulFic moments like The Gold Watch sequence: dragging taxi cab/ motel room scenes / apartment/street/ basement scene payoff. that kind of feel.
jtm's highlights reel couldnt have said it better. i loved the mystery of this season's opener that felt like a different show entirely and this episode's opener better interpreted why these freaks are the way they are (or
were, save one). my flavor flave opener thus far
(theyll top it no doubt). and how much did those kids look like older terminator twins??
i didnt think last week's RV scene could be topped on edge-wise then they bust out this brilliant punch to the bowels parking lot scene in the VERY NEXT EPISODE. only
minor HATE would be
that it fell into the world where cops take forever to show up category absorutry nuh-din.
Quote from: ddiggler on May 03, 2010, 06:38:01 PM
"your meth is good jesse, as good as mine"
:notworthy:
rent/flix season one knowing season two will be so much better knowing several episodes into season three will ForTheWin the shit out of one and two. if everyone gets into it, we're gonna need a bigger boat.
i can't wait for the inevitable showdown between Walt and Hank. when that happens, is the series done? i mean, where the hell could they go after that??
insanity. i love it.
Quote from: bigideas on May 03, 2010, 04:40:10 PM
you didn't stay to watch the previews?
it looked like the one who got crushed between cars survived.
nope, because I steal it as I'm not in the usa or canada and the file doesn't have that, and I'm glad, I love that I see the episodes without knowing what the hell is gonna happen.
even if that twin survives he's done, isn't he? he's going to jail no matter what (thou with this show you never know).
thing is , there will be more twins on their way, little terminators in search of revenge, and I think is kinda obvious that gus tipped off hank, who else woulda known?
Quote from: Pozer on May 03, 2010, 10:44:02 PM
i think i said it before but it's got Sopranos like depth with these Pulp Fictiony type moments. the good PulFic moments like The Gold Watch sequence: dragging taxi cab/ motel room scenes / apartment/street/ basement scene payoff. that kind of feel.
that's exactly right. :bravo:
Quote from: Pozer on May 03, 2010, 10:44:02 PM
i didnt think last week's RV scene could be topped on edge-wise then they bust out this brilliant punch to the bowels parking lot scene in the VERY NEXT EPISODE. only minor HATE would be that it fell into the world where cops take forever to show up category absorutry nuh-din.
I was thinking the same thing, or that they at least could have used a siren sound in the last shot, BUT, that's the obvious thing on every damn show, so then I was glad they didn't do that, then I timed the moment when the first bullet is shot to the last and it's only 3.06 minutes, so it seems possible that cops are still on their way.
Quote from: cine on May 04, 2010, 02:55:53 AM
i can't wait for the inevitable showdown between Walt and Hank. when that happens, is the series done? i mean, where the hell could they go after that??
insanity. i love it.
i imagine the major showdown of the show will be between Walt and Jesse. Hank and Walt still have a cordial relationship, so the drama from that showdown would still mostly come from Hank's surprise that it was Walt all this time. aside from that, i don't feel like Hank and Walt are emotionally involved with each other enough. i'd hate to see Hank go because he adds such a cool dynamic to the show, but i'm more interested to see the Walt and Jesse story come to it's conclusion. these characters know everything about each other, and while they seem to have curbed their vendetta for the moment, the seeds are still planted for a showdown between the two of them (especially with Walt now acknowledging Jesse as an equal)
i think they might be slowly revealing that Gus was once like Walt, and that eventually Walt will be the new Gus. i can't picture this story concluding without Walt being a kingpin. as of now he's still a workhorse.
Quote from: cine on May 04, 2010, 02:55:53 AM
i can't wait for the inevitable showdown between Walt and Hank. when that happens, is the series done? i mean, where the hell could they go after that??
they'll make out.
Quote from: ddiggler on May 04, 2010, 11:48:46 AM
Hank and Walt still have a cordial relationship, so the drama from that showdown would still mostly come from Hank's surprise that it was Walt all this time. aside from that, i don't feel like Hank and Walt are emotionally involved with each other enough.
uhh.... but you DO recognize that this show is centered around Hank getting to the bottom of all of this, right? that would mean he would find out that it was Walt behind ALL of this after all, including the threat of his wife being almost killed in a car accident. so presumably, if Hank found this out, he would want Walt dead. period.
... so you understand how that would be more thrilling as a final showdown than another Walt/Jesse fight, right?
Quote from: cine on May 04, 2010, 12:27:25 PM
Quote from: ddiggler on May 04, 2010, 11:48:46 AM
Hank and Walt still have a cordial relationship, so the drama from that showdown would still mostly come from Hank's surprise that it was Walt all this time. aside from that, i don't feel like Hank and Walt are emotionally involved with each other enough.
uhh.... but you DO recognize that this show is centered around Hank getting to the bottom of all of this, right? that would mean he would find out that it was Walt behind ALL of this after all, including the threat of his wife being almost killed in a car accident. so presumably, if Hank found this out, he would want Walt dead. period.
i guess it's kind of self defeating to argue about which "showdown" would be more thrilling. there's no wrong answer (which is a testament to how well they've developed these characters) they really upped the ante in the past few episodes with Hank, and it's true that as soon as Hank finds out that Walt is Heisenberg, he will realize that he was behind the fake phone call regarding his wife. a few weeks ago they were painting Hanks quest to find Heisenberg as an excuse to avoid El Paso, but after the RV incident it's become a much more personal vendetta. i have no doubt in my mind that Hank's showdown with Walt will be chilling stuff. (i'm especially looking forward to Hank and Walt interacting as themselves, as opposed to "nice guy" Walt and "meathead with a heart" Hank)
personally though, the Walt and Jesse stuff just speaks to me more. last night's parking lot scene was visceral insanity, but Walt and Jesse's hospital scenes are what this show is all about for me.
I don't think Hanks going to be looking for Heisenberg for a very long time.
regarding why the cops took so long to get there; i too thought it was kinda strange with all these gun shots going off... but then i thought, and another poster brought it up, it really wasn't that long so it's feasible because the whole thing happened so quick.... but today it struck me, the whole think happened IN THE PARKING LOT OF A POLICE STATION!!"... so yeah, that was a little weak. but a very small gripe considering how outstanding the episode was.
Quote from: jtm on May 04, 2010, 10:26:24 PMbut today it struck me, the whole think happened IN THE PARKING LOT OF A POLICE STATION!!"...
i thought the same thing too at first, but it was a grocery store or something. hank had flowers in his hand.
Quote from: ddiggler on May 04, 2010, 11:48:05 PM
Quote from: jtm on May 04, 2010, 10:26:24 PMbut today it struck me, the whole think happened IN THE PARKING LOT OF A POLICE STATION!!"...
i thought the same thing too at first, but it was a grocery store or something. hank had flowers in his hand.
yeah, i didn't really think to hard about it, but subconsciously thought it was a grocery store - maybe the people walking by? don't remember if they actually had anyone carrying bags or pushing carts.
pretty sure they were outside a gay club.
everyone inside thought they were making out.
saw it a couple nights ago, wow great episode though not as good as #6 which IMO was the best of the season.
SPIOLERS
i really liked the back lit cinematography for the first 90% of the episode, anyone else notice how all the light seemed to be coming from sources in the background (usually another room or window to outdoors). almost seemed like it was all natural lighting.
i thought the way they brought Walt and Jesse back together (which i saw coming, because they have to make Jesse's character justified being on a Walt centered show) was well written and motivated. i think Aaron Paul's acting was probably the best so far in this episode. i don't think he's an amazing actor, but this episode he showed his chops.
to the speculation on who tipped off hank. i think it's the hispanic/black chicken guy. he did this all in Walt's (and in turn his own) interest.
great episode, though wouldn't be as good as i remember it if it wasn't for the ending. I'm kinda happy those bald guys are outta the show now. they really were the worst, most contrived, element this season. sure they're cool enough, but not cool enough for this show because they set the bar so high. those two guys, their villain archetype I've seen before and it's played out. so good riddance.
really interested to see where it goes from here. hank's pretty much outta the season, two dudes are dead, Jesse and walk back together. a lot of conflict was concluded, I'm eager to see what's next.
Quote from: socketlevel on May 06, 2010, 10:08:48 AM
really interested to see where it goes from here. hank's pretty much outta the season, two dudes are dead, Jesse and walk back together. a lot of conflict was concluded, I'm eager to see what's next.
i think the conflict with the cartel isn't concluded at all. it was just a family vendetta before but now that they're dead (or hospitalized) i doubt the cartel is just going to "let it go"
i thought that was implied. i wasn't suggesting the cartel would let it go or that the story was no longer going to involve them. but that cartel is more of an idea, a big-brother type enemy, then the tangible conflict. obviously they're going to keep up the threat and act as antagonist. however, what I meant is how will this manifest. the direct, shown, drama has been 80% concluded. they'll have to create more characters to fatten the show up with conflict on an intimate level.
i really doubt hank's out of the season
Quote from: socketlevel on May 06, 2010, 10:08:48 AM
to the speculation on who tipped off hank. i think it's the hispanic/black chicken guy. he did this all in Walt's (and in turn his own) interest.
See, I don't understand why he would tip Hank off. He was the one who gave the twins Hanks name in the first place. If anything, he would want Hank dead since it's one less think Walt and Jesse would have to worry about. He has no reason to want Hank alive.
good point. however the two brothers were loose cannons, maybe he thought hank could take them... but that's a stretch, ya i think you're right stefen.
Quote from: I Love a Magician on May 06, 2010, 12:32:06 PM
i really doubt hank's out of the season
right but he was shot like 4-5 times, his role in the season is dramatically diminished as a physical threat.
Quote from: Stefen on May 06, 2010, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: socketlevel on May 06, 2010, 10:08:48 AM
to the speculation on who tipped off hank. i think it's the hispanic/black chicken guy. he did this all in Walt's (and in turn his own) interest.
See, I don't understand why he would tip Hank off. He was the one who gave the twins Hanks name in the first place. If anything, he would want Hank dead since it's one less think Walt and Jesse would have to worry about. He has no reason to want Hank alive.
I don't see who else could have known, maybe that lawyer's tough guy? but I don't think so, remember that in the opening of this episode we see the twin's uncle talking about the "chicken man" and how you can't trust a southamerican, to me that's clear that he's referring to gus, and so it leads to gus ratting out the twins thus confirming he can't be trusted. further more, those creepy fucks have been a pain in the ass to gus too, showing at his fast food place and freaking out everyone there, I think he understands that even if they took out hank they eventually will want walt, and then who knows what else.
anyway, that's my theory.
i saw it as a win win for Gus. he sends the annoying twins after a DEA agent. they're two thorns in his side, if either one winds up dead, it's good for Gus. the beautiful thing about the situation now is that Gus can have his cake and eat it too. one twin is dead, the other nearly dead, and a DEA agent is in the hospital. i'm pretty certain the DEA can figure out that the twins were working for the mexican cartel, which will take all of the heat off of Gus and Heisenberg for the time being. the cartel can't get upset with Gus either because he can chalk the whole incident up to incompetent assassins.
spoils
so Gus turns out to be the real badass and he just eliminated part of the cartel in México and the living twin, speaking of which he used that lawyer's tough guy, so maybe that guy was tailing hank and tipped him off.
This is starting to creep into the second best show I've ever seen, right below The Wire. It's THAT good.
This show is starting to creep into number two, right after The Wire, in the best television shows I have ever seen. After a shaky season two, they have totally redeemed themselves. This season has just been amazing. The acting, the writing, the directing, the lighting, the realism. It's just simply amazing. Bryan Cranston is putting in some of the best work I've ever seen from an actor in this. God, he's good.
This guy is starting to become one of the great unassuming badasses in television history.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashfilm.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fimages%2Fepisode-3-gus-760-550x387.jpg&hash=52c8328309eb07222c0996ab17b3d49806c212f4)
Gus just keeps getting more badass and badass as each episode of this season is shown.
I don't know where it's going to lead, but after watching tonights episode, I think the time is going to come when Walt and Gus have the ultimate showdown. Right now, Walt is fine being a pawn in Gus's game, but soon he's going to want all the pie and I can't wait to see it unfold. I just hope Jesse doesn't fuck it up before it happens.
Spoilers.
Jesse is a dumbass for thinking he can cook on the side with no problems. This is going to end badly for Jesse.
after the events this season i had a hard time figuring out how they were ever going to get skylar and walt back together, but after that last scene, i understand how it could work. the look on walt's face as that lie unfolded was priceless. he thought he was the master of deception and skylar mopped the floor with him.
new advertisements say this show is like a
Quote from: Pas on May 18, 2010, 10:25:55 AM
Cohens
movie. this is tooootallly accurate.
jus doing my part in attempt to sell everyone else on it.Quote from: ddiggler on May 17, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
after the events this season i had a hard time figuring out how they were ever going to get skylar and walt back together, but after that last scene, i understand how it could work. the look on walt's face as that lie unfolded was priceless. he thought he was the master of deception and skylar mopped the floor with him.
but how brilliant was her final line? look on his face then was tooootallly priceless.
my simple prediction for the entire show: walt eventually becomes the kingpin (of course), then a season of him getting busted and going to court and losing EverYthing. i say this based on how they're treating hank's storyline. showing his difficult recovery and the time it will take to recover, perhaps never being able to walk again.. i love how this show truly considers the fallout of every event. the ultimate fallout will be walt's trial.
fring is incredible. the moment he went "that's the best way to do business." then back to game face. so calculated. like a robot chess player.
and the 'blue meth is back!' infomercial in the recovery group was so massively, amusingly amoral.
Spoilers
Thinking about it, I don't know if Walt has it in him to be a Kingpin. In season two when he went after those meth makers in the parking lot and told them, "Get out of my territory (one of the best moments in the show)." I thought he had it, but this season I don't think he does. He's content just making the meth and making millions instead of tens of millions to make sure his family is okay when the cancer eventually comes back (and it will) and he's dead and gone.
I'm curious to see where it goes. I would love a courtroom trial when everyone knows who Heisenberg is and he's front page news. That would be so epic.
Unfortunately, I think Jesse and his idiot friends fuck everything up.
I see Gus being the Kingpin after the eventual showdown. I think Gus knows nobody can cook like Walt/Heisenberg, but I think Jesse meets his demise soon. He's starting to become more trouble than he's worth.
How great was this episode? Just Jesse and Walt in the lab. Wow. This was amazing. This episode needed to be done. Walt is losing his shit. He's a mess.
Quote from: Stefen on May 24, 2010, 03:57:17 AM
How great was this episode?
dunno... i'm sure it was great but i was over at abc... gonna have to find a way to watch the episode.
**spoils**
I was mostly bored. The only tension was wondering if the sleeping pills acted like a truth serum and made Walt accidentally tell Jesse that he was there when the girl died.
I loved this episode, it was like a stage production. i love it mainly because it's such a great shift from the way episodes have been constructed recently, something they did in seasons one and two as well. it reminds me of moments like the guy locked in the basement. I'm not against the normal pacing and style of the show, i just appreciate so much how the series creators say fuck it let's change this up. very fearless. it was also great performances to boot. very little (something that could have taken 5 mins to establish) was progressed, and people might find that a fault, but it brought up issues that we thought were in the past and it took the story back to our two protagonists. great character piece.
beautifully directed, and keep in mind i fucking hate hate hated "Brick" but i loved "the brothers bloom" so I'm not gushing fanboy love.
the previous two episodes IMO were kinda a let down, so it was so nice to have this one come our way, because i thought the two before (so that's 4 and 5 episodes ago) were pretty great.
god, this simply is the best show on TV.
this was the first time in nearly 30 episodes that everything was treated like, what was already said, a play. i wasn't that into it because i've been programmed to expect action but that being said, it got pretty intense. i thought jesse was either going to crash off the ladder and/or walt was going to say that he let jane die. i feel like now that this episode happened, i can see kingpin walt telling that to jesse at some point in season 4 (if they don't destroy each other first in s3).
i was kinda bored too at first, but after thinking about it, this was a good episode and needed to be done. walt and jessie ARE the show. and an episode of JUST walt and jessie, well, it just needed to be done at this point.
shit's prolly gonna get crazy soon, and who knows what will happen, so i'm glad we got to just watch them enteract. in their own way.
That's my reasoning. This episode needed to happen. It's the perfect mid-season episode. Small, confined and character driven. It was perfect at this point of the season. Perfect. Now back to the regularly scheduled fireworks.
So, uh, is Skylar going to be the eventual kingpin?
Should have saw that coming, honestly.
i saw it coming.... after the walt fiasco, and then the thing with ted, how he was ripping off the company to take care of his employees, plus hanks medical finance issues, i think she finally realized it's okay to "break bad" if it's for a good cause. i knew she would come around. i wouldn't be at all surprised if they get back together eventually.
and jesses about to get himself into a heap of shit, isn't he?!
and best line of the episode:
saul: if you're commited enough, you can make any story work. i once convinced a woman i was kevin costner, and it worked, because I believed it!
Quote from: Stefen on May 31, 2010, 03:03:53 AM
So, uh, is Skylar going to be the eventual kingpin?
Should have saw that coming, honestly.
they're gonna be the First Family of Meth
***SPOILS***
you know i don't focus on the plot so much in this show, the main reason being even when they do something that's remotely cliche it's always done in a way that is rewarding and original. for example the way that Skylar is now joining the fold is far more interesting and organic than Catherine Zeta-Jones in Traffic. i know traffic was a movie but i hated her storyline because i just didn't buy it. the beats in this show are utilized perfectly and the end result is a much greater effect.
it's not to say i don't wonder whats going to happen next, but I'm not looking for it to be so crazy and out there. because the beauty of the show to me is how it's not afraid to lead you the typical plot points, because it is confident in the masterful execution.
watched it last night with two of my best friends and at one point one turned to me (it was at the point in which we find out the boy that murdered his friend is his love interests brother) and said "did they just jump the shark?" (that's "nuke the fridge" to you young peeps) and i replied that they didn't, because if they did based on these unrealistic circumstances then jumping the shark happened in the 2nd season. Q (don't know his name other than Q from star trek lol) showing up at the bar that Walter was at, just after Walt murdered his daughter, is way more unbelievable. and because the show is brilliant i got past that, so i can get past this.
solid episode, very enjoyable moments throughout.
so another great episode, what a shock.
these guys sure know how to handle tension, and in this episode they did more than once, even the dinner with gus was and of course jessie going to that corner at the end. this series is just amazing.
Gus reminds me of my roommate. He's cordial, organized, and we all think he has a dead body in his trunk.
I agree that Skylar's turn to the dark side was very believable. Her story is starting out the same way Walt's did, with rationalizing the crime with noble circumstances. What happens once Hank walks out of that hospital? Most likely she won't be able to give it up. Walter Jr. is about to go through some fucked up shit.
Quote from: jtm on May 31, 2010, 03:21:00 AM
i wouldn't be at all surprised if they get back together eventually.
Do you think that will happen without Walt sleeping with someone to offset her infidelity - or was his lying for that long enough?
Oh, my god.
OH MY GOD.
RUN.
no joke - i did not see that coming......and neither did they.
holy fuck holy fuckity fuck fuck fuckkkkkkkkk
jesus christ! who could have seen that coming? man these writers are the real fucking deal. my heart almost stopped at jesse's meeting with gus and that whole affair, then it comes the much needed comedic moment of hank's "release" in/from the hospital, but we haven't seen shit yet!
cant fucking wait.
Quote from: P on December 03, 2009, 01:00:29 AM
FIUCKLLKFKFK FLFLFL
FKJFKFKFK
FKFKFKFK FICKKFICKKCKC
FKKF
This season has some of the best writing I've ever seen in TV. Another thing this show does well is violence. The violence reminds of when Spielberg goes commando mode. It's so realistic it's almost surreal.
I guess I need to start watching this show. I watched Season 1 in an afternoon and didn't love it. It was okay but seemed like it was trying too hard to be shocking. Does it get better?
Also: I work with AMC so yay to this show being good.
Season 2 was pretty good. Had some silliness but season 3 is one of the best seasons of tv Ive ever seen. Season 2 is completely necesssary in order to fully get season 3.
season 2 is the BEST. it is modern art. i cannot overemphasize its goodness. i love season 3 and 1 like my first borns but i don't think they overtake it. well. season 3 comes pretty damn close and of course we haven't seen it all yet, but the episodes are more individualized, not so much part of an incredible giant story like season 2. i think season 2 is more ambitious as a whole. season 3 is more ambitious on an ep by ep basis.
i disagree with your take on season 1, but the show in general does get better/more complicated with every episode.
i can't even comment on what's happening right now. it's just too great for words. you just need to see it....i just wanna sit back and enjoy the ride they're giving us.
it's sucks that there's only 1 episode left this season... i'm already looking forward to season 4, which is soooooo far away.
i hope all the gushing from the meager 4-5 people who post in this thread will get other people to give it a chance and check out the whole series.
watching 1 episode of this TV show is more entertaining than most theatrical movies coming out these days.
to quote stefen, "it's that good!"
Yes this show is fantastic. I don't think its the best show on tv, but its certainly top notch and ridiculously entertaining. These last few episodes have blown me away. This show is so good at handling tension.
"Jesse, your actions, they affect other people."
I think that quote from Walt about sums it up. He's gotta realize that just as much as Jesse does. I'm of the opinion that with Walt's rise up every single person close to him will suffer greatly. In the next few seasons he'll lose everything and everyone but his cancer will still remain in remission.
Its only a matter of time before something happens to Walt Jr.
Quote from: modage on June 07, 2010, 07:49:40 PM
I guess I need to start watching this show. I watched Season 1 in an afternoon and didn't love it. It was okay but seemed like it was trying too hard to be shocking. Does it get better?
it gets better but only for people who don't think its trying too hard. if thats how you feel about the show, you won't like seasons 2 or 3 either. total waste of your time.
Quote from: cine on June 10, 2010, 01:52:52 AM
Quote from: modage on June 07, 2010, 07:49:40 PM
I guess I need to start watching this show. I watched Season 1 in an afternoon and didn't love it. It was okay but seemed like it was trying too hard to be shocking. Does it get better?
it gets better but only for people who don't think its trying too hard. if thats how you feel about the show, you won't like seasons 2 or 3 either. total waste of your time.
yeah, keep in mind that modage might have been spoiled by the
breakneck pacing of a show like mad men.
anything that moves faster than a rug on valium now seems like it's trying too hard to advance the story beyond a prolonged snore.
just realized how grateful i am that breaking bad doesn't use dream sequences like the sopranos and mad men.
what?!
it's gonna be a long summer.
I'm at a loss for words. Yes, it's going to be the longest Summer ever waiting for season 4.
SPOILERS.
The thing that really got me was that all through the season, Jesse had said he was the bad guy. "I'm the bad guy." he'd say. He wasn't, though; he was the good guy. The one with the conscience. Walt, the brains, ends up merking dudes left and right; he's the bad guy. But Jesse ALWAYS had a conscience. He always knew right from wrong. Not anymore. Jesse is BAD and the only reason he's bad is to keep Walt alive. His tear-ridden face as he's about to kill Gale is something that will stay with me until the next season.
Was anyone else under the impression the finale was until 10:40?
My TV schedule just showed Breaking Bad, with no mention of a new pilot. I thought that was crummy.
In my mind I was thinking that whatever happens there is still a bit of show left, so it really shocked me.
i was under that impression as well.
i was kinda shocked when the credits started to roll.
yeah, that was a dumb marketing thing on AMC's part. showing rubicon after breakind bad isn't a horrible idea, but leading people to believe that they're getting a movie's worth of breaking bad was dumb.
wish this was 2015 and i was just plowing through seasons on this show on SUPER HD BLU RAY and just get on to season 4, which i expect to be twice as good as season 3 (an awesome season) for some reason.
yea i was rub-duped too.
i was a bit miffed by the finale at first but then i was cool with it.
season 4 is gonna be a whole new beast altogether. no doubt it'll be the last of the series. everyone's gonna die and its gonna be grand.
I was looking at Twitter right after and someone said it wasn't over, that they would air more BB after the preview of the new show. Since I couldn't remember credits rolling I half believed them and made sure I was watching at 10:40. :yabbse-undecided:
Does anyone else have a hard time believing that Gus would ever give a shit about those 2 street level goons pushing "teenths" (thanks BB, I know the lingo now)? I guess I'm fine with it because I like the action, but when you really think about it, it doesn't add up. The guy deals with million dollar deals and Mexican drug cartels, why is he calling meetings in his office with foot soldiers?
Of course Walt shouldn't have done what he did, but Walts this apparently irreplaceable cook. Why not just be like "Dude, that better not happen again, now get back to cooking you crazy bastard." Is Gus really that unreasonable? It all seemed a bit rushed to me. Though maybe that's because I was expecting 47 more minutes of episode.
^ i kinda agree with hard sweets. off Walt the genius cook over ridding the world of a pair of whogivashits. part of the problem with the writing of this show is they come up with a great concept and run with it, sometimes not showing enough reasoning.
they couldve given Gus a few simple Gussy follow up lines to his "I would have dealt with them" such as, "I dont care that you are a genius. You don't go over my head. It's the principle of things. I will show you how replaceable you are."
anyways, brilliant cliffhanger. you guys in the Justified thread sure are missing out.
I think it's more that Walt and Jesse are causing more problems than they're worth. The meth is good and the reason Gus is at the top of the game right now. Anyone can cook meth, but not anyone can cook THAT kind of meth. He needs THAT meth in order to stay at the top, but he doesn't give a fuck who's cooking it. When Jesse and Walt are causing so many problems, they need to be dealt with. I don't think the problem was who they killed, but how many and how they did it. When you're leaving bodies in the streets it brings the police out, snooping around. That's why Mike kept telling Walt, "Get your fucking car fixed, idiot."
The dynamic between Gus and Walt is going to be interesting in season four. I always felt Gus liked Walt because of the circumstance. He knew Walt was smart and he knew his intentions for doing this weren't selfish, so that gave him an incentive to do business with him. When things started getting hectic, Gus made a play and gave him an assistant with the intention of the assistant taking over. The question is if Gus put Gale in place before with the intention of him taking over when Walt got too sick to cook or when he started causing too many problems. I don't think that was the case immediately, because if it was, he wouldn't have let Jesse be allowed into the fold. It was only AFTER everything goes down that he insists that Gale be Walts assistant with his secret intentions being to kill Walt as soon as Gale learns the recipe. Now that Walt knows what Gus is/was up to, it's going to be interesting to see how they react to one another.
Quote from: Stefen on June 15, 2010, 01:19:45 PM
I think it's more that Walt and Jesse are causing more problems than they're worth. The meth is good and the reason Gus is at the top of the game right now. Anyone can cook meth, but not anyone can cook THAT kind of meth. He needs THAT meth in order to stay at the top, but he doesn't give a fuck who's cooking it. When Jesse and Walt are causing so many problems, they need to be dealt with. I don't think the problem was who they killed, but how many and how they did it. When you're leaving bodies in the streets it brings the police out, snooping around. That's why Mike kept telling Walt, "Get your fucking car fixed, idiot."
The dynamic between Gus and Walt is going to be interesting in season four. I always felt Gus liked Walt because of the circumstance. He knew Walt was smart and he knew his intentions for doing this weren't selfish, so that gave him an incentive to do business with him. When things started getting hectic, Gus made a play and gave him an assistant with the intention of the assistant taking over. The question is if Gus put Gale in place before with the intention of him taking over when Walt got too sick to cook or when he started causing too many problems. I don't think that was the case immediately, because if it was, he wouldn't have let Jesse be allowed into the fold. It was only AFTER everything goes down that he insists that Gale be Walts assistant with his secret intentions being to kill Walt as soon as Gale learns the recipe. Now that Walt knows what Gus is/was up to, it's going to be interesting to see how they react to one another.
what stefen said.
nobody has said if gale was shot or not, at least to me is not very clear, when jesse pulls the trigger he moves the gun a little from his target, but who knows...
man the 10 month wait for S4 already is unbearable, longest wait indeed.
well said, Stefenovitch. double echo from me, Fernandino.
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/06/adding_a_laugh_track_to_breaki.html
lol, oh, that was bad.
i haven't seen passed episode 2 of season two....so i'm gonna delete this thread now.
Quote from: Fernando on June 15, 2010, 01:37:08 PM
nobody has said if gale was shot or not, at least to me is not very clear, when jesse pulls the trigger he moves the gun a little from his target, but who knows...
man the 10 month wait for S4 already is unbearable, longest wait indeed.
right.
with this show, gale could have fired that shot - maybe gale had just given Gus a notebook where he meticulously mapped out how to make it, etc. there are still possibilities until we actually see the dead body.
No. Jesse shot Gale. In the face. Gale is dead. Vince Gilligan said as much in interviews today. He didn't mean for it to be ambiguous and he's kind of let down that people were taking it that way.
^^ yeah, he's pretty clear about gale being shot.
here's the int@avclub.
http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan,42064/
yeah, shot ol' gale in the face. gonna be interesting to see how they have jesse deal with murdering someone next season. walt's worst action so far in the series was to give jesse the order to kill jesse. he sort-of-indirectly led to the plane crash, but he guilted his surrogate son into murdering another person when he'd already shown that it was something he was incapable of doing.
walt
Quote from: modage on June 15, 2010, 02:59:25 PM
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/06/adding_a_laugh_track_to_breaki.html
i gotta admit i laughed pretty hard at that. especially during the opening credits sequence. jesse in his blown-up yellow suit dancing to the music cue really had me rolling!
The best was the ABC logo.
Quote from: Stefen on June 15, 2010, 04:29:12 PM
he's kind of let down that people were taking it that way.
says the man who showed us a pink bear in a black and white world for ages...
Anyone ever told you you look into things a little too much?
Quote from: Stefen on June 16, 2010, 02:45:31 PM
Anyone ever told you you look into things a little too much?
Philistine... :P
Just watched it last night with my buddy (we always make sure to watch it together) and fucking loved it. however, i will say i hope there is only one more season of this show or it will sadly jump the shark (nuke the fridge). because they're so deep in the shit now that to somehow clear the whole situation up and continue with walt and jesse doing their old shit will pale in comparison, and be sadly contrived. they have been forever written out of being dealer/cooks by my standard. they need to play out this drama and action to the tragic ending that will be in the next 12-13 episodes. every show that ever had to write themselves outta a dire situation like this has failed horribly. end on a high note as one of the best series of all time, no swan songs.
i cant get enough of these!
this would have to be my favorite:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a4a4546760/breaking-bad-is-now-on-abc-part-3?rel=auto_related&rel_pos=3
Just finished season 3. Walt is a horrible horrible person.
Don't wanna wait a year to see the rest. Season 4 should mos def be the last. Guess i won't delete the thread.
a few of you have said season 4 should be the last, but i disagree... it's gotta go to season 5.
next season: balls to the wall action... walt continues his game (with skyler taking part), takes out gus, becomes the kingpin and then in the season finale (for the cliffhanger) gets found out by hank.
season 5: walts on the run, gets caught, then the trial, then prison. <done right, that could be an epic series finale.
they've only scratched the surface with the Mexican cartel, so 5 seasons would round the series out nicely. Walt still has to unseat Gus, then he's got to deal with the bigger picture (then of course, his family and Jesse).
Absolutely loved the whole season. I haven't been this giddy watching a t.v. show since the first season of Lost.
Quote from: modage on June 07, 2010, 07:49:40 PM
I guess I need to start watching this show. I watched Season 1 in an afternoon and didn't love it. It was okay but seemed like it was trying too hard to be shocking. Does it get better?
Also: I work with AMC so yay to this show being good.
Rewatched Season 1. Felt about the same about it, that there was so much untapped potential and the writing just wasn't good enough to bring it out. However, I just finished Season 2 and I think the show got EXPONENTIALLY better as it went along. The last few episodes of the season were AMAZING and now I'm hooked. It's really grown into itself as a series so I'm super excited to watch Season 3 now. :yabbse-thumbup:
Season 3 IS THE BEST.
Spoilers
Did the silly coincidental ending of season 2 make you roll your eyes? I hated that.
It didn't. Partially because I think half of it had been spoiled (and I knew that people had been disappointed) and partially because I do like that it elevates the show above "realistic" and onto a more LOST-ian coincidences & consequences scale.
And I like Gilligans response (http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/05/breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-post.html): "It's not a random event, but in fact a cosmic indictment of Walt's life choices of late. And my philosophy is if you can guess it's the cartel, and it turns out to be the cartel – well, as a viewer, I'd rather be surprised."
I like how in Season 3, there's an episode (it may be the fly? i'm not sure) where Walt actually points out and says how weird of a coincidence the ending of season 2 was.
i'll defend the ending of season 2 until the day this thread dies. IT'S POETRY, JERKS.
I'll admit, I was taken aback by the ending of Season 2, almost to the point of finding it anticlimactic. I had muscled through the second season and was just so into it that I wasn't sure if I was totally satisfied with it or not.
The more I thought it over, I'm so happy with it. I still have yet to see an episode of the third season, but they went all out so far with the first and second. I almost didn't want to like this show because of the nature of it (kind of like how I didn't want to like Nip/Tuck) but I'll be damned if it doesn't amaze me.
the only thing i find fault with in breaking bad is that it sometimes comes off as a writing exercise. vince gilligan has said over and over that they don't plan things out and write themselves into corners on purpose. it's generally pretty thrilling to see how they write themselves out of those corners but you can still tell sometimes that they're pulling it out of their asses. i'm just getting into the wire (finished season 1 the other day, couple episodes into season 2) and you can tell it's all plotted out with no loose ends. the wire would never introduce something like marie's kleptomania and just let it fizzle out.
you guys talk about the wire so much that i guess i should check it out. i've never even seen a scene from it. know nothing about it. i'd be going into it totally new.
Quote from: I Love a Magician on August 19, 2010, 01:36:10 AM
the only thing i find fault with in breaking bad is that it sometimes comes off as a writing exercise. vince gilligan has said over and over that they don't plan things out and write themselves into corners on purpose. it's generally pretty thrilling to see how they write themselves out of those corners but you can still tell sometimes that they're pulling it out of their asses. i'm just getting into the wire (finished season 1 the other day, couple episodes into season 2) and you can tell it's all plotted out with no loose ends. the wire would never introduce something like marie's kleptomania and just let it fizzle out.
Spoils, including for season 3:
I made this exact argument to a friend of mine who is a die hard BB fan when he claimed it had no faults. That drives me crazy. I'm pretty sure they only have an idea of where Walt is going and everyone else is there just to get him there in an interesting way. It only hurts the show from time to time, but really kills me is that IF they were to plan everything out meticulously the show could be amazing. Instead the show's plot falls into place in sections. For instance, had the show mapped out better perhaps we could've been introduced to Andrea earlier in the season. Then Jesse's relationship to her, her son, and her brother, as well as the realization of the Combo situation and Jesse's general reaction to it could've played out in a more logical span of time. Instead, to me, it felt rushed. My theory as to why is that they had no idea how to end the season until they had already written 2/3 of it.
As far as the end of Season 2 goes, I view that as the biggest miss-step of the series so far. Not because it was SO coincidental, I'll buy that. But because of all the snippets they showed in other episodes leading up to it to make us anticipate the end. ESPECIALLY the bodies. It came off as such a bate-and-switch. Haha, you thought someone important was going to be dead, but they weren't, gotcha! Its cheap writing. Oh and just because they referenced the end of season 2 in the first scene of the first episode doesn't mean they had the entire season planned out at the beginning.
Don't get me wrong though, I love this show. Its' probably my second favorite show on TV right now. Thats the only reason I hold it to such high standards.
Quote from: jtm on August 19, 2010, 01:51:46 AM
you guys talk about the wire so much that i guess i should check it out. i've never even seen a scene from it. know nothing about it. i'd be going into it totally new.
your'e in for a treat. I'm always super excited for anyone who's never seen it.
Quote from: squints on August 19, 2010, 02:44:52 PM
your'e in for a treat. I'm always super excited for anyone who's never seen it.
I have a friend who is just beginning to catch up on The Wire and is, unsurprisingly, enthusiastic about it. He told me that watching The Wire practically renders Mad Men a dull chore. By comparison, the stakes in Mad Men are so dismally low it's hard to invest much consideration into anything that happens. I felt the same way about Mad Men after getting into Breaking Bad*.
It's nice to see the love for BB increasing exponentially. It's a much more daring show (Artistically, intellectually, thematically) than Mad Men has yet to even attempt. To me, Mad Men suffers the same problem Inception suffered. It's so deliberately vague and emotionally thin that it makes it too easy for the audience to project a deeper meaning upon it. I'm not calling Mad Men (or Inception, for that matter**) shallow - rather than nowhere near as declarative as Breaking Bad. It's a pulpy show that wants to be immensely watchable and, in that effort, it's succeeds tremendously. The wonderful thing about it is that, for all that pulp, it still creates an emotional resonance that Mad Men has yet to touch***
*Contrasting the merits of twos shows based solely on their running time and shared network is a pretty ridiculous exercise. I can acknowledge this as fact, but it still doesn't keep me from not doing it.
**This declaration, however, I'm fine with.
***Though Don's California trip came pretty fucking close.
Quote from: john on August 19, 2010, 11:38:14 PM
It's so deliberately vague and emotionally thin that it makes it too easy for the audience to project a deeper meaning upon it. I'm not calling Mad Men (or Inception, for that matter**) shallow - rather than nowhere near as declarative as Breaking Bad. It's a pulpy show that wants to be immensely watchable and, in that effort, it's succeeds tremendously. The wonderful thing about it is that, for all that pulp, it still creates an emotional resonance that Mad Men has yet to touch***
Spoils for BB and Mad Men:
I disagree with this.
What is deliberately vague about Mad Men?
I would argue that the characters are much more fleshed out and realistically developed on Mad Men than on Breaking Bad. Sure Breaking Bad is more "pulpy," in the sense that it deals with drugs and people, at any moment, can be killed on the show. Mad Men doesn't have that kind of action (unless you consider lawn mower accidents), but thats not what the show is all about. If you want people getting whacked go watch The Sopranos (I like to say that the sopranos was Mad Men with the constant possibility of someone being murdered). Mad Men is about the characters who work in advertising in the 60s, and they are damn good characters. Better than Breaking Bad's I'd say. For example:
Don VS Walt: Don Draper is a bad person in a shiny wrapper. But over the past few seasons we've watched that wrapper be peeled off him. At first it was hard not to like him despite his lies and infidelities, but now we've watched everything catch up to him. We've been along for the ride as he slowly deteriorates into the pathetic drunk he is this season. Every realization (meaning every new lie we realized he was living) we had in the first 2 seasons we watched him pay for in three and now four. Now he's alone and struggling to keep up with the massive change thats taking place in the 60s (which is something I'm not really touching on here but 1960s NY is also a cooler setting than NM). I have no idea whats going to happen to Don, but I'll continue to enjoy watching his ups and downs. Its been a logical path for Don this whole time. From that moment in the pilot that we realized he had a house/wife/kids we've just watched his web of lies unravel and destroy him, and its been a treat.
Walt, on the other hand, has been down a bit more unbelievable road. Breaking Bad is, as you mentioned, pulpy...so I'm a little more willing to accept things for the sake of entertainment. However, what began as very interesting (his decision to cook to support his family in his dying days) has turned to a more generic idea (greed, with cancer very much on the back burner). Walt is no doubt a terrible person, but its a more predictable greek tragedy type of way. Greed is his flaw. It used to be that he made the decision to cook meth, a very poor decision indeed, and now we'll see how that decision ruins his life. But now its been elevated into a more generic (and scarface-y) "greedy" place where nothings enough unless he's a drug czar and he doesn't care what he has to do to get there. In my opinion that strays from the more real, more harsh places his character was developed in the first and some of the second season. We all have predictions as to where Walt's character is going...he's going to go after Gus and try to take over his business, then as a result of his greed get caught and go down. Maybe Vince Gilligan has something completely different in mind, but what I'm getting at is I have no idea whats going to happen to Don Draper. His character isn't following a path I'm familiar with. At the core of his psychology Don mostly just wants to bury the past, but as much as he tries he can't. It comes through in alcoholism, infidelity, and a general lack of a conscience. Walt's just become greedy because he's developed a taste for action/money.
I'm working on a larger response with things like Skyler VS Betty (I think Skyler is mostly there to serve Walt's story like: Will she find out he has cancer?? will she find out he's cooking meth?? Oh now she's divorcing him, but wait now will she join him??) Jesse VS Betty, Hank VS Whoever... but its getting late and I've gotta work tomorrow.
I love both shows, but I called Breaking Bad my second favorite show on TV for a reason, and that reason is Mad Men. They're both better than everything else on TV but I think Mad Men goes for substance/character development where Breaking Bad sacrifices those slightly for pulp/shock. Mad Men's just more my style I guess.
Yeah, I mean it's apples and oranges. And everybody already knows that apples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_men) are better than oranges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_bad).
Quote from: I Love a Magician on August 20, 2010, 08:48:56 AM
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 20, 2010, 04:42:19 AM
Jesse VS Betty
that'll be a good one
For what its worth, I meant to say Jesse VS Peggy.
But I suppose it really is an apples and oranges type thing... who cares which is better? I'm just glad they both exist.
but mad men is better
Quote from: modage on August 20, 2010, 08:54:48 AM
Yeah, I mean it's apples and oranges. And everybody already knows that apples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_men) are better than oranges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_bad).
How much $ are you getting to say that?
(If I have read it right, you are actually employed by MM in some fashion).
:yabbse-grin:
My company does work with AMC so I work on both shows. But regardless, Mad Men is still my favorite show on TV (now that LOST is gone).
So what you're saying is, since everyone likes apples, it's safe to say that apples are overrated, overhyped and fall fairly bland in the face of the much tastier oranges?
Quote from: modage on August 20, 2010, 10:41:04 AM
My company does work with AMC so I work on both shows. But regardless, Mad Men is still my favorite show on TV (now that LOST is gone).
Will you send me any show related goodies?
Speaking of apples, what do I have to do to get apple juice as a more prominent breakfast beverage along with the noraml milk, oj and coffee?
Breakfast is the GOAT meal.
Finished Season 3 this morning. I love this show.
Quote from: modage on August 29, 2010, 05:36:39 PM
Finished Season 3 this morning. I love this show.
RIGHT?
How great were the last 3 or 4 episodes of season 3?
I loved it pretty consistently from SPOILER Tuco's death through to the end. In the beginning I was frustrated that there were a lot of opportunities for drama in the premise that I felt weren't taken advantage of by the writers. Like the premise was better than the execution. So there were big leaps in character logic that bothered me as well as feeling like the portrayals were a bit over-the-top (Walt is a nebbish, Hank is a macho ahole, etc.)
I feel like it really became an exponentially better show as it went on. The writing was tighter, the characters became much more nuanced and Gilligan became a better storyteller.
Some non-submergible (http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/08/05/vince-gilligan-is-rethinking-breaking-bad-season-3-cliffhanger/) moments from the series:
SPOILERS MAJOR
Jesse doing heroin for the first time.
Jane choking on her vomit with Walt there.
Walt in the parking lot giving the amateur methmakers a warning.
Hanks parking lot battle.
Walt saving Jesse with his car.
The last minutes of season 3. Holy SHIT.
END SPOILERS
I want to spend the next year convincing everyone I know to watch it.
It's now my 2nd favorite show on TV.
First of all, he's misquoting it, they're called non-submersible units.
And secondly, that's not what Kubrick meant, as explained in this FAQ (http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/faq/index4.html#slot49) (scroll down to question 49).
So based on this guy's misquoting and misreading of basic Kubrick knowledge I have to say I neither endorse nor approve the current headline pertaining to this show.
Haha, so essentially, stealing from Kubrick will always work out for you, even if you misunderstand and misinterpret what he said.
Quote from: Gamblour. on September 02, 2010, 08:20:47 AM
Haha, so essentially, stealing from Kubrick will always work out for you, even if you misunderstand and misinterpret what he said.
See also: 90% of all movies after 1968.
Just watched the entire series so far. I finished up the third season, and for some reason I was under the impression that the fourth season was currently airing, so I rushed over to Pirate Bay to look for the new episodes, only to discover that the show doesn't come back until JULY. FML.
But anyway, yes it is a super fantastically great show and you were all right and I'm deeply sorry it took me so long to get around to it. For once, a show actually understands that character depth doesn't just mean they have a quirky mannerism and a ghost in their back-story, but that people have actual personality flaws that inform their actions. That people will act outside of their own best interests sometimes. That the line between a noble act and a selfish one can blur so subtly you don't even realize that it's happened.
And if you didn't like the end of season two, I will fight you. With my fists. What picolas said.
Quote from: polkablues on January 03, 2011, 02:15:16 PM
Just watched the entire series so far. I finished up the third season, and for some reason I was under the impression that the fourth season was currently airing, so I rushed over to Pirate Bay to look for the new episodes, only to discover that the show doesn't come back until JULY. FML.
But anyway, yes it is a super fantastically great show and you were all right and I'm deeply sorry it took me so long to get around to it. For once, a show actually understands that character depth doesn't just mean they have a quirky mannerism and a ghost in their back-story, but that people have actual personality flaws that inform their actions. That people will act outside of their own best interests sometimes. That the line between a noble act and a selfish one can blur so subtly you don't even realize that it's happened.
And if you didn't like the end of season two, I will fight you. With my fists. What picolas said.
I'm one of the people who wasn't feeling the end of season two, but it's okay because it redeemed itself with season 3, which is its best season and possibly one of the best seasons of television of all-time. Especially the last 5 or 6 episodes. The Gus story arc is so fascinating. Can't wait to see where that goes.
It's crazy to hear that after 2 was so structured they basically made up 3 as they went along. I hope they can keep it up successfully through another season (or 2).
The last two episodes of season 3 were so fantastic.
Like incredibly fantastic. and Intense. Incredibly fantastic and intense.
May have just seen the Season 4 premiere. Pretty sure that happened.
:yabbse-thumbup:?
Spill the beans! But, ya know, spoiler free.
When does the new season start?
that is an unfair tease.
i guess the new season should be somewhat soon? surprised i haven't seen one teaser for it yet.
The show will be back in June. Sorry for the tease but I really can't spoil anything. :yabbse-lipsrsealed:
I will say that it picks up where last season left of and that it's good!
I hate you
Does Walt still have a shaved head? Could have sworn I saw Cranston around Albuquerque with hair.
if it picked up where last season left he must be bold, later maybe he has hair again, in any case I dont want to know anything about it.
mod, what about the killing, have you seen that or heard good things about it?
I've seen the first episode of The Killing and it definitely has potential but I wasn't hooked instantly or anything. (I think that's why they're showing the first two episodes as the premiere.) I also saw the first 5 or 6 eps of the Danish series it's based on Forbrydelsen and can see where it would start getting really good. It was a huge deal over there.
Season 4 trailer: http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2011/05/breaking-bad-season-4-premiere-date.php
No new footage? What kind of shit do they think they're pulling here?
fuck my Current Location.
Quote from: polkablues on May 31, 2011, 02:22:58 PM
No new footage? What kind of shit do they think they're pulling here?
Ha, thats funny. I didn't even notice. (It was so compelling!) Mad Men does the same thing, it's kind of awesome because you aren't spoiled in the slightest. Only 1 month to go.
Can't wait! I will try to rewatch the last few episodes to remember everything that was going on and get even more excited (if thats even possible!).
I'm sure we'll start seeing some footage as we get closer to the premiere, this served to get me back in the mood to watch the show though. Even without new footage, it's a hell of a trailer. I'd be perfectly happy not seeing a second of the new season before it premieres.
This show has become the high water mark of modern television.
i agree that this show's handling of tension is impeccable and it's probably as exciting as the dynamics of a cliffhanger can get, but i'm going to briefly comment on the things that put me off:
-scenes like walter being right in front of jessie's gf when she's having a stroke. those scenes ruin the hard earned verosimilitude of the show ( i say it's hard earned cos it takes a while to buy into shit like the fact that walter's brother-in-law is a DEA agent).
-it's a show that doesn't get any benefits from selling its style. i don't want walter and jesse to look fabulous in their yellow PPEs or cool shots.
-i hate when it gets wacky, like the lawyer's publicity, or the narco corrido about walter, or the ad for the chicken restaurant. it turns the story into a GTA IV sequence.
-lazy stereotypes. the moral rawness of its characters is eclipsed by how dumb and textbook the stylization of criminal behaviour is.
feel free to argue
Quote from: cronopio 2 on May 31, 2011, 11:28:50 PM
-i hate when it gets wacky, like the lawyer's publicity, or the narco corrido about walter, or the ad for the chicken restaurant. it turns the story into a GTA IV sequence.
-lazy stereotypes. the moral rawness of its characters is eclipsed by how dumb and textbook the stylization of criminal behaviour is.
feel free to argue
As much as I love Bob Odenkirk, I cringed when they introduced his character. I expected a caricature, rather than someone fully detailed and befitting the world the show had established. That was a worry that was dismissed pretty quickly, however. Odenkirk's character might be used as comedic relief, but it's an earned comedic relief. His ads, or the ad for the chicken restaurant, might undercut the otherwise unflinching tone of the show, but it does so very honestly. At no point do the ads feels disingenuous. They feel real to both the world the characters inhabit and to my perception of that world.
In regard to the lazy stereotypes: This probably isn't what you are addressing, but the one element of the show that I'm worried about (and, hopefully, it's another unfounded worry) is the progression of Skylar from (muddled) moral compass to Lady Macbeth-esque accomplice. It's the one character arch that seems too easy and a bit reductive. The shows writer's are smart and could easily circumvent this development and I hope they do... or, at least, make it more interesting than it promises to be.
Can't wait for the fourth season. This is a show that constantly outdoes itself. I just hope it's scope doesn't become too ambitious, actually. Gus is a perfectly realized adversary. I hope he doesn't become larger than life (anymore than the last couple episodes have hinted at anyway) and they remember it's the small moments that have carried the biggest impact so far.
I think they've done a pretty good job of setting up Skylar to be an accomplice. In the first season she feigns pregnancy problems to get out of her sisters shoplifting troubles, which was a minor comedic scene but it set up the fact that she was capable of bullshit just like Walt. Then her looking the other way while Ted cooked the books led to her eventually accepting Walt's ventures. It wasn't as if she just snapped out of her own morality. The scene where she cooked up the lie about Walt's "gambling" problem might have been my favorite scene from last season. Walt's earlier lecture to a student to "never shit a shitter" came full circle there. Skylar is way more capable of a ruse than Walt is.
Those are some mad spoils, cron, though maybe everyone here is caught up on Breaking Bad.
Quote from: cronopio 2 on May 31, 2011, 11:28:50 PM
-scenes like walter being right in front of jessie's gf when she's having a stroke. those scenes ruin the hard earned verosimilitude of the show ( i say it's hard earned cos it takes a while to buy into shit like the fact that walter's brother-in-law is a DEA agent).
That was one of my favorite scenes of the show chiefly because there is a huge difference between letting someone die of a stroke and letting someone die of an overdose. Especially in the context of when it happens. She brought it on herself, she was sapping Jesse, they had just made a plan to get away from it all and go sober (though the show indicates it's possible that she would've gone clean for Jessie, we will never know).
Hell, the DEA agent brother isn't really that farfetched. It's the crux of the show. He saw a meth bust on TV in a time when he needed to make a lot of money quick no matter the repercussions, but what sealed the deal was his DEA agent brother in law suggesting how instantly lucrative it is. In fact, if his brother in law wasn't a DEA agent, he may never even have considered drug dealing on his own.
Some nifty photos from the new season. Love that last one!
http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/breaking-bad-season-4-studio-photos/season-4-cast.php
And here (http://www.avclub.com/articles/breaking-bad-season-four,57869/) is a nifty new trailer with actual scenes from season 4. I can't believe we have to wait yet another month!
Quote from: ddiggler on June 21, 2011, 03:44:14 PM
Some nifty photos from the new season. Love that last one!
http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/breaking-bad-season-4-studio-photos/season-4-cast.php
Me too.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.amctv.com%2Fphoto-gallery%2FBB-S4-Studio-Photos%2FWalt-Explosion-11.jpg&hash=cebf46cc96493a448dae8de037be05ae3d78afb8)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2FManzy114%2Ftherewillbebloodcinematography-1.jpg&hash=09c9310937b76e2658f0fe6784bba437bc53fb7d)
Quote from: ddiggler on June 21, 2011, 03:44:14 PM
Some nifty photos from the new season. Love that last one!
http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/breaking-bad-season-4-studio-photos/season-4-cast.php
HaHah I've always loved how they treat RJ Mitte's character as one not to be pitied, and I especially love that they could make him look BadAss in this publicity still!
New trailer. (http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Breaking-Bad-May-End-Season-5-Two-Minute-Season-4-Trailer-33300.html)
Can. Not. Wait.
I just rewatched most of S2 and S3 in anticipation of this, thanks in part to the late-night marathons on AMC, and my own stash of downloads. Half Measures is one of the best hours of television ever (though really, what episode of S3 can you NOT arguably say that about?). Full Measure is heartbreakingly, heartstoppingly tragic. And now, this! http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/breaking-bad-sneak-peek-season-4-episode-1-box-cutter (http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/breaking-bad-sneak-peek-season-4-episode-1-box-cutter)
The best show on television's 4th season premiere is only a few hours away!
And today, Reddit is honoring BB's return with its alien dressed up as Heisenberg. :)
never got into Breaking Bad, thinking I should start..
Cut from mopping up blood to french fries dipping in ketchup? I see what you did there. Walt kept taaaalking and talking, and Gus. Said. Nothing. I knew what his line would be once he finally did speak. The only thing I can't quite put together -- well, I guess I can -- is why silent boy? Maybe 'cause he made a mistake (jumping in to the crime scene and letting himself be seen), and was expendable. Perfect chance for Walt and Skyler -- well, Walt -- to confide IN Skyler, but more was said when nothing was. Cut to the crime scene photos, and... the Lab Notes. I'l never look at box cutters the same way.
SPOILERS
Quote from: ono on July 17, 2011, 10:06:02 PM
Cut from mopping up blood to french fries dipping in ketchup? I see what you did there. Walt kept taaaalking and talking, and Gus. Said. Nothing. I knew what his line would be once he finally did speak. The only thing I can't quite put together -- well, I guess I can -- is why silent boy? Maybe 'cause he made a mistake (jumping in to the crime scene and letting himself be seen), and was expendable. Perfect chance for Walt and Skyler -- well, Walt -- to confide IN Skyler, but more was said when nothing was. Cut to the crime scene photos, and... the Lab Notes. I'l never look at box cutters the same way.
You know what they say... a box cutter introduced in Act 1 is always used in Act 3.
This should be an amazing season. They keep raising the bar for intense scenes, and I just don't know how they do it. The scene with Gus was hardcore. Not only gruesome, but paced beautifully. How rare for an episode of television to have such potent silences. It was masterful.
Gus talked to Mike, so I'm sure he knew how Victor had handled the situation, which is to say... unprofessionally. If you remember the Season 3 finale, he started acting based on his emotions as soon as he learned what Walt had pulled. So yeah. Who knows how many security cameras captured him on his way there and back? Maybe he left some fingerprints, too. He certainly made himself memorable to the eyewitnesses at the scene, and of course they're going to mention that encounter to police. This is Gus's right-hand man. Gus can't be seen with Victor in public anymore, so yes, he's a liability and pretty much useless. (Starting the batch by himself sort of put an exclamation mark on that.)
The slaying of Victor was also a display (complete with supplemental stony glares) meant to intimidate Walt and Jesse. But I think Walt is smarter than that, as we learn in the diner scene. He's planning their next move and thinking like a criminal, like one of them, and he even seems a little excited about it. Remember when it seemed ridiculous for Walt to be strategizing about these things? Doesn't seem ridiculous anymore, does it?
Skylar's behavior does make sense. She's concerned about Walt, but she's definitely not at the point (yet?) where she wants to be aware of the details. It will be interesting to see, as Walt becomes a more hardened criminal, whether she catches up to him a bit. I'm not sure that will ever happen to a great extent, since the show is about Walt's transformation. She will probably maintain a don't ask / don't tell policy for at least a while.
Also:
- I knew what Gus was going to do as soon as he picked up that box cutter, but that didn't make it any less shocking.
- The ketchup was heavy handed, but still funny. This is the sort of thing you'd see all the time on The X-Files.
- We should remember that Gus killing Victor is not an endorsement of Walt, whose analysis of the situation seems to be correct.
Excellent stuff Jeremy, I'm so glad you watch this.
This premiere was all kinds of awesome. A few thoughts:
- Loved the cold open. It was shocking to see Gale right away. Did anyone else notice Gale had that lab note booklet in this scene?
- Freakin' Gus man. The scene with him putting on the lab coat already lives in the pantheon of ridiculously intense Breaking Bad scenes, along with the final moments of both Half and Full Measures and about a billion other scenes. This show is the ultimate master of slow-burn tension.
- Skylar becoming more comfortable with deceit in that scene with the cop. Surely she's on the path to breaking bad in her own way. By the way, what is up with all the Skyler hate? Is it just lunatic fringe message board misogyny? When I read AV Club and other message boards it's non-stop.
- Jesse's look after Gus kills Victor was unbelievably chilling. That diner scene afterwards was so revealing too, not just for Jesse's great line about "at least we're all on the same page now." You just felt that they've both embraced who they are, and maybe on some subconscious level, were even a little excited about what was to come.
- I wonder if Walt and Jessee will continue to get paid for their work? Or if their "contract" will get renegotiated. I don't see any reason for Gus to continue paying the full amount now after everything that's happened.
SPOILERS!!
Watched this at the Drafthouse last night (they showed it paired with the season 3 finale) and it makes it quite a bit more intense seeing it on the big screen.
They showed Gale's phone a number of times. I get the feeling that's going to be a big piece of evidence for the DEA (or homicide).
Cbrad, I think that Walt and Jesse will continue to get paid, but Gus will continue to plan to replace them.
http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/breaking-bad-sneak-peek-episode-402-thirty-eight-snub
"You're so historically retarded!"
Quote from: ©brad on July 18, 2011, 10:12:39 AMBy the way, what is up with all the Skyler hate? Is it just lunatic fringe message board misogyny? When I read AV Club and other message boards it's non-stop.
She cheated on Walter.
Quote from: MacGuffin on July 22, 2011, 08:12:12 PM
Quote from: ©brad on July 18, 2011, 10:12:39 AMBy the way, what is up with all the Skyler hate? Is it just lunatic fringe message board misogyny? When I read AV Club and other message boards it's non-stop.
She cheated on Walter.
A lot of people on IMDB were talking about her weight (very childishly).
I don't remember, does she look heavier than the end of last season?
Could it be possible she could be pregnant with the boss' child?
If Walt began considering doing bad things to a child, that's about as evil as he could get.
i don't remember breaking bad being as cinematographically ambitious as it has been in the past two episodes. has anyone noticed this?
some stuff looks like it's being helmed by david fincher.
I don't have cable so I've been watching crappy downloads and it looks like crap so I can't tell.
This was a typical second episode of a season. Not much going on. A lot of set up, etc. Still fun. I like the Hank storyline. I didn't know Jesse was using again. He's lonely!
I think Cronopio is mostly talking about the scenes with Jesse. Definitely ambitious. I think it mostly worked. Also, I guess this is the episode where we have to be embarrassed for Walt for pretty much the entire duration. He did such stupid things, especially what he said to Mike. I thought he'd know better, but apparently he still has a lot to learn. And I wonder how they're going to buy a carwash. Maybe Skylar will find something to blackmail him with. They wouldn't buy a different carwash, would they?
My first download of E2 was utter crap, but I found a much better one (http://www.fileserve.com/file/NEXwaVt).
For those of us who have to watch BB on a computer:
http://www.scnsrc.me/?s=%22breaking+bad%22&x=0&y=0
http://www.rlslog.net/?s=%22breaking+bad%22&sbutt=Go
I pass by that car wash everyday on my way to work. I should take pics for you guys of all the locations in the series. They're all within miles of my house.
i would say breaking bad has always been this cinematographically ambitious. jesse's floating, the airplane explosion, numerous object-based povs (eg. the grill where the money's set on fire, literally laundering money) and cooking montages come to mind. even conversations that could be covered in a conventional manner often aren't.
i'm a little divided on the season thus far. they're definitely going for a less-is-more, minimalist kind of thing. it's not all working for me. the zombie conversation, for example. did that have to be five minutes long? breaking bad used to be the king of moving stuff forward, totally changing the stakes every episode.. don't get me wrong. i'm not against watching paint dry, but i don't know if bb is justifying this pace. still better than 95% of television but i hope they change things up.
It's true... There wasn't one super intense scene, which unfortunately we've come to expect. I feel like there might have been opportunities, but maybe not.
The dialogue was not very good. It was one of those episodes where whoever wrote the dialogue tried really hard to use a dialect. It was especially noticeable with the gun dealer ("If you're all fingers, well it might could be him keepin' a piece instead of you. Catch my drift?") and one of Jesse's friends' lines ("Think on it, bro"). The actors almost pull it off, though. (Yes, I felt the need to go back and look those up.)
BB is not above weak episodes. "Fly" for example was a bad episode. Probably the series' worst.
That episode aside, I think it's better to view Breaking Bad as one continuous movie. It doesn't necessarily make sense to judge or grade each individual episode. This episode (E2) is just that part of the movie that moves a few things forward.
good call on colloquialisms. i'm okay with no particularly intense scenes in an episode. i actually thought fly was minimalism done right. nothing happened, but it worked as a reflection of how far jesse and walt had come. sort of like an anti clip show. i half agree with you about watching the show as a long movie. it's definitely more powerful on that level, but especially in season 3 i felt every episode stood on its own as awesome. season 2 was the furthest from an episodic structure, but gilligan has talked about how they were conscious about making season 3 less structured/not a massive arc. maybe the pendulum is swinging back for this season? i dunno.
Even S2 wasn't a proper arc, though. It picked up right where S1 left off. I guess you could think of S1+S2 as one season. I think the end of S2 is probably the closest we've come to a dividing point in the series so far.
I didn't like "Fly" at all. Everything about it was too heavy-handed for me; in fact I don't think it was minimalistic at all. I might have accepted the premise with better dialogue, but the writing was not good. Walter was out of character. I didn't believe his fly-chasing, and that broke the fourth wall because all I could see was what the writers were trying to do. It was boring and unsubtle, which is exactly the opposite of what you want from this show. "Fly" reminded me of the House episode One Day, One Room (http://house.wikia.com/wiki/One_Day,_One_Room). Okay... that one's worse, but it's a very good corollary, in the way that it tries to philosophize through an intensely boring premise, relying on dialogue that turns out to be horrible, all the while bringing its chief protagonist out of character.
Fly wasn't the strongest episode, but I love Walt's monologue about "that perfect moment" when he wished he would've died. That's a great scene and really sums up the tragedy of where Walt's life has taken him.
Good call... that was my favorite part of the episode.
I wish they wouldn't use so much time lapse, but overall I love how exuberant and cinematic the cinematography is on this show. For a TV production, it's an incredible feat. The roomba POV shot and extreme overhead of Walter outside Gus's house were very well done.
Quote from: picolas on July 26, 2011, 12:08:50 AMi'm a little divided on the season thus far. they're definitely going for a less-is-more, minimalist kind of thing. it's not all working for me. the zombie conversation, for example. did that have to be five minutes long? breaking bad used to be the king of moving stuff forward, totally changing the stakes every episode.. don't get me wrong. i'm not against watching paint dry, but i don't know if bb is justifying this pace. still better than 95% of television but i hope they change things up.
That zombie scene was excruciating! But was it purposefully so? You could tell that coked up asinine banter was just eating away at Jesse (and us).
How else has this season been minimalist? I agree on some odd pacing, and certain scenes and shots dragging. But from a plot perspective, I think stuff has been moving along at Breaking Bad's usual early-season pace.
Some things I loved:
Walter's Heisenberg moment in the car with the hat, and how the music stopped and started back up.
"Walter you're never going to see him again."
"I think there's this cat. I think I'm like, supposed to feed it."
The last shot of Jesse gave me chills. Aaron Paul is killing it, as usual.
Also, I would seriously watch a show that just followed Mike the Cleaner around all day.
I think the strengths of the show right now are:
- Jesse's turmoil. It's perfect for where the story is right now. He's had turmoil before, but it's been mostly juvenile. Now, it's more serious and deep, even deeper than it was post-Jane. And Aaron Paul is amazing.
- Hank and Marie. Their relationship has never been more interesting. And it's hard to pick sides. Marie is just trying to be helpful and loving, but she's being shut down at every turn, and she has every right to be concerned with Hank's obsession with minerals, which is a couple more shipments away from some kind of hoarding compulsion. From Hank's perspective, she's been smothering him since the incident. She doesn't really know how to deal with him anymore, so she has become annoying. I predict that a rock mineral will be thrown. Also, the actor who plays Marie is playing this out so well. I guess she's never had material this strong before, but boy is she hitting it out of the park. Her anguish in this last episode was completely real.
Quote from: cronopio 2 on July 25, 2011, 10:41:38 PM
i don't remember breaking bad being as cinematographically ambitious as it has been in the past two episodes. has anyone noticed this?
some stuff looks like it's being helmed by david fincher.
http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2011/07/jesses-house-party-video.php (http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2011/07/jesses-house-party-video.php)
***SPOILS***
I think one unsung thing about this show that is pretty great is in the casting and wardrobe. One thing that really stuck out to me about the last episode is how all the kids at the party looked authentic. No one in this show is pretty, not even the party girls (which is where shows usually try and fill out the quotient of hotties).
I love this show, i think it's the best thing on television, but I don't agree how great you think Aaron Paul is JB. I think this is a perfect typecast for this role. I've seen him in other stuff and he's pretty lackluster.
I watch this show with a friend in film like myself and we were very happy with Jessie's non-termoil ending in the first episode; he was finally taking control of his situation. I was sad watching this last episode because now he's back in that, and it's getting old.
Other than that, great episode.
Quote from: socketlevel on July 28, 2011, 09:56:39 AM
***SPOILS***
I watch this show with a friend in film like myself and we were very happy with Jessie's non-termoil ending in the first episode; he was finally taking control of his situation. I was sad watching this last episode because now he's back in that, and it's getting old.
Hmm I don't see how Jesse was in anyway taking control of anything in episode 1. At Denny's he was able to clearly articulate Gus's motive in killing Victor in a way Walter couldn't. That wasn't evidence that he was suddenly in control of his emotions or comfortable in his new role as "the bad guy."
I agree with Jeremy in that I don't think we've ever seen Jesse in this state of turmoil. This wasn't about Jesse simply on another meth-binge. This was about Jesse not wanting to be alone and face what he's done, trying to block everything out with noise (the party, the sound system, even the roomba which you can almost interpret as a little roommate). We feel his soul eroding in that final shot and it's heart-breaking. Had the show not done this, had they quickly turned him into this hardened, cold-blooded confident killer, I think that would feel cheap. And we wouldn't like Jesse as much.
Exactly. I don't think Jesse resolved anything in E1. His nonchalant behavior at the restaurant was either a front or he was simply very hungry; I think believing that he had taken control is a misinterpretation.
He doesn't have control of the Gus situation at all. He said at the restaurant that they and Gus are on the same page now and have some kind of understanding and that it will be okay, but I don't think he believes that (and Walter certainly doesn't).
But more importantly, he doesn't have control of his own moral self-identity. Walter has already defeated his, but Jesse just can't do it, and I don't know if he ever will. This season is drawing out a central element of the show, which is that Walter is turning into a "bad guy," but Jesse is a good person. That tension is what we'll be dealing with.
You guys might be right. However the reason i came to this conclusion was the role reversal with him and walter. This was a very rare moment that jesse had wisdom and insight for walter; which is usually the other way around. he sat there confidently eating his meal and educated the educator. the 2nd episode flipped it again. i find it realistic, and people have moments of clarity and they go back to their patterns, i guess i was just hoping for something else this time around.
JB i wasn't saying he has control of the Gus situation, it just appears at the end of ep 1 he's got control of his own emotional and physiological shit. then cut to the next episode and he's a wreck again.
no biggie, still love the show and thought the first two episodes were great.
Quote from: socketlevel on July 29, 2011, 09:30:33 AM
You guys might be right. However the reason i came to this conclusion was the role reversal with him and walter. This was a very rare moment that jesse had wisdom and insight for walter; which is usually the other way around. he sat there confidently eating his meal and educated the educator. the 2nd episode flipped it again.
Except I don't think Jesse is being wise in that scene at all. Walter is correct. And after Walter makes his point, if I recall, Jesse doesn't disagree. (He was educated.)
Quote from: socketlevel on July 29, 2011, 09:30:33 AMJB i wasn't saying he has control of the Gus situation, it just appears at the end of ep 1 he's got control of his own emotional and physiological shit. then cut to the next episode and he's a wreck again.
Okay. It does appear at the end of E1 that he's somewhat stable, but people go into shock all the time after something traumatic has happened, and I think that's what happened here. At that diner scene he's still maintaining the front that he put up immediately when the throat-cutting happened. It's unnatural for someone not to have a human reaction to that, so yeah, it was just being delayed.
His crisis in E2 was probably a combination of (1) his loneliness, (2) the Victor incident, (3) the Gale incident, and (4) his identity crisis overall. These are all piling up, and he's not ready to face them. The crazy face he made in the final scene is not just desperation... he's crushingly overwhelmed.
If i remember right Jesse makes the last remark at the table.
I agree with the crisis combination and find it believable. I guess i have seen this Jesse so much I wanted something else.
Quote from: socketlevel on July 29, 2011, 12:05:21 PM
If i remember right Jesse makes the last remark at the table.
We may be drifting into overanalysis, but truthfully I'm always up for that...
At the beginning of the scene, when Walter asks Jesse how he's doing (twice), Jesse has absolutely no verbal response and very little nonverbal response. (I love this BB's potent silences.)
Walter: Any thoughts on what our next move might be?
Jesse: What next move? [in denial]
Walter:
Our next move. Our next move, given the fact that at the first opportunity, Gus will kill us.
[Jesse then argues that Gus just had a "golden" opportunity to kill them, which is a pretty stupid observation. He
then argues that they are irreplaceable, even suggesting that it might take years... which is not quite as bad, but still stupid.]
Walter: Are you sure--
Jesse: At least now, we all understand each other. Right? I mean... him and us. We get it. We're all on the same page.
Walter: And what page is that?
Jesse: The one that says, if I can't kill you, you'll sure as shit wish you were dead. [laughs]
[Walter then gives him a look like... "Uhh... that doesn't even make sense... and are you
sure you're okay?" Which is exactly what I was thinking.]
Especially after re-watching this scene, I think it's really obvious how much Jesse is denying and bottling up. It's almost exaggerated. His straw-slurping at the end is especially on-the-nose.
This was a great tension-builder episode. I wasn't quite sure about it at first, but by the end I really appreciated it.
The Walter/Skylar dynamic is getting interesting (yet again), especially in the champagne-drinking scene, because they seem to be reconnecting. What makes it really interesting, though, is that it looks like Walter is going to need a whole new set of lies between them. This time, it's about the danger he's in... and his plans (vague though they may be) will certainly put him in more danger. I expect this to play out in a big way. It might just take the usual/natural route, wherein Skylar slowly puts things together herself.
Marie's content was probably the weakest part of the episode (was her crying a bit much?), but it was still good. The fact that she stole the framed family photo confirms that her compulsion is serious and she's the thrill-seeking variety. But I wonder if the writers were trying to make another point about her relationship with Hank... it's highly suggestive that she stole a picture of a happy couple.
My favorite part of the episode was Jesse's story. What's going on at his house is just so bizarre. I thought I knew what his motivations were, but now I'm not sure. It's either some strange new addiction or a form of psychosis. Check out his face after he throws the money and watches the people scatter:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.tinypic.com%2F6tipg8.png&hash=7f2d382a3588a6b3f07cf85ceeb429467e0e539f)
So strange! The bit where he threw the balled-up bill into the guy's mouth was even better. Completely Lynchian humor. So overall, I'm not sure what's going on with him. Maybe he's just trying to connect with people and experiences, but he just can't make it work, so he's trying different things. This crisis might be a close parallel to Hank's post-Tuco crisis, just with different manifestations. Someone with actual knowledge about psychology should chime in.
Technical note... The guy we see outside Jesse's house is indeed Gus's new assistant, who was briefly introduced last episode in the lab:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.tinypic.com%2F5v1tz5.png&hash=4c7e6b835efc99dd878b2844b5ce8ab5f06a0387)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2F30tnabs.png&hash=cf8810e24a828b037ba5d579297e333440f8f146)
I knew Jesse's employers would shut down the party house. (Next episode?) He could obviously attract unwanted attention from law enforcement.
... And I just thought of something. I think the party house has transformed from a loneliness cure to something entirely different. It's almost like Jesse is keeping his own little collection of circus freaks so he has something to look down on and subjugate. He has collected them right there in that one room of his house (remember, it is just one room) so he can throw money at them and demean them. There's that dominance angle, but they're also like a curated representation of his inner demons, which he's trying to deal with by proxy. Totally makes sense now.
fuck ya man, you see the evolution of it in the episodes. they start out as his friends, then they're this super rough crowd and end up being really old meth heads. showing him getting more and more washed up.
the continuing party scene at jesse's is brilliant how the house is progressing to match his changing state of mind into something that seems to be heading straight toward more violence, that's the drive behind it that I feel? love where this season is going so far....
I have some weird thing for Marie (i'm thinking its because she looks EXACTLY like this girl i used to hook up with frequently, weird nose and all) and I thought her little portion was great because i didn't really know what was going on at first and i thought maybe she was finally through with Hank's shit and she's movin out? But no, its just a little example of the bad breaking going on in her world. I didn't find it too distracting.
My favorite moment from this last ep was Jesse driving the go-kart, the little scream he lets out in the middle of that little montage was great. Its definitely a metaphor here, he's going to crash very soon.
Gale wouldn't have put Jesse or Walt's name in the Lab Notes (or even a hint at their name that Hank could pick up on) would he? Naaaaa.....
SPOILERS
What do you guys think THIS (http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/breaking-bad-season-4-studio-photos/jesse-mike.php) picture has to say about whats gonna go on with Jesse?
Quote from: squints on August 03, 2011, 05:43:49 AM
Gale wouldn't have put Jesse or Walt's name in the Lab Notes (or even a hint at their name that Hank could pick up on) would he? Naaaaa.....
no way, but Hank could call Walt to ask him if that looks like the real deal...and if that happens, oh man there are many possibilities...
Quote from: squints on August 03, 2011, 05:43:49 AM
What do you guys think THIS (http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/breaking-bad-season-4-studio-photos/jesse-mike.php) picture has to say about whats gonna go on with Jesse?
SPOILERS! damn you squints, you should know better! :P
I have no clue but it cant be good, and he looks beyond wasted.
and I just read this:
'Breaking Bad': Could Season 5 move off AMC?The answer to the question in the headline is, probably not. But it's also not a certainty that a fifth season of the show will stay in its current home.
AMC, which airs "Breaking Bad," and Sony, which produces it, are negotiating terms for a fifth season of the Emmy-winning series, and talks have apparently become strained. So strained that according to the Los Angeles Times, Sony even approached three other cable networks about possibly airing Season 5 of the show if it should come to that. (The other channels weren't named.)
The big sticking point, the Times says, is AMC's interest in cutting the number of episodes in the fifth season, from 13 to "six to eight." That was a non-starter for the show, which has aired 13-episode seasons every year since its first.
AMC is not a stranger to prolonged negotiations over its original series. The multi-year deal that secured Seasons 5 and 6 of "Mad Men" came after months of talks that eventually pushed the show's premiere date from this summer to early 2012.
Despite the current hiccup, it's likely that "Breaking Bad" will remain on AMC for its fifth, and potentially last, season. Creator Vince Gilligan told Zap2it at the show's Season 4 premiere in late June that "If you ask me right this minute, I'd say [Season] 5 would be a good end point, but if you ask me a year from now maybe I'll change my tune."
I liked the episode but one thing I didn't get was the champagne scene. Slylar's freaking out because they're "broke" to the public eye and shouldn't be spending $300 on booze. How exactly does she justify spending $800k on a carwash?
Quote from: ©brad on August 04, 2011, 09:06:59 AM
I liked the episode but one thing I didn't get was the champagne scene. Slylar's freaking out because they're "broke" to the public eye and shouldn't be spending $300 on booze. How exactly does she justify spending $800k on a carwash?
Uh oh... major plot hole...
I too would like an explanation...
yeah that was dumb. Walt's gambling is apparently how they got the carwash, yet they're broke. i also dont understand how theyre going to hide all that $$ per year through a carwash business they just took over.
wasnt a very good episode all around. how terrible was the scene where Walt attempts to get Skylar to stop calling carwash guy? Cranston's acting was actually poor in this scene :yabbse-huh:
Quote from: Pozer on August 04, 2011, 11:02:46 AMhow terrible was the scene where Walt attempts to get Skylar to stop calling carwash guy? Cranston's acting was actually poor in this scene :yabbse-huh:
Actually I have to agree with that. Also didn't quite fit his character. I was thinking, "wait, why does he suddenly not have patience?" The scene was supposed to show us how clever Skylar is and that Walt needs her cleverness, but there are much better ways to do that, and they've actually already been done.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 04, 2011, 10:34:23 AM
Quote from: ©brad on August 04, 2011, 09:06:59 AM
I liked the episode but one thing I didn't get was the champagne scene. Slylar's freaking out because they're "broke" to the public eye and shouldn't be spending $300 on booze. How exactly does she justify spending $800k on a carwash?
Uh oh... major plot hole...
I too would like an explanation...
you can add to that hank's treatment, even in this ep. marie said bills are getting bigger, btw before knowing she was back to stealing things I thought she was faking invoices or something...
so, how much is Walt earning anyway?
1st deal was 3mill for three months right? if that deal is still the same after he splits with Jesse that's 1.5m.
per day that's be 16.66g. no way the car wash produces a 3rd of that in a day.
I have to hope Gilligan and co. have thought about all this and we'll get some answers as we move forward. Another thing I was thinking was does Hank know about Walt's "gambling?" Surely he knows Walt is paying his medical bills? (Hank doesn't seem like the type of man who would let another man pay for his anything, but whatev). My half-baked prediction would be Hank learns of this gambling story and is naturally suspicious, and this in conjunction with whatever he learns about the meth lab through that lab book leads him to finding out the truth about Walt.
I re-read this entire thread the other day. and so far we're all batting .000 on predicting what's going to happen in this show.
Pretty sure Hank assumes that insurance is covering everything. Remember, he wasn't really conscious for those decisions. He could be distant enough from Marie now that he's just letting her handle it and doesn't care.
I found some discussion about the plot holes here:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14093034#post14093034
Maybe the thing is that Skylar/Walt/Saul haven't thought things through properly, and not the writers. It just seems too significant right now to overlook.
Holy hell last night's episode was a doozy.
The scene with Skylar and Walt going through her script was excruciating. It's funny how this season is employing very long, dialogue-heavy scenes. I was watching Treme right before where in classic David Simon fashion every scene is 6 seconds, so maybe that's why this one felt so purposefully dragged out. It was good though. Walt's frustration and impatience was hysterical. In fact this was one of the funniest episodes they've done in a while.
Other noteworthy awesomeness:
- That cold open!
- "Where's the I slept with my boss bullet point?"
- Jesse's demise continues to be heart-breaking. That close-up on his eyes when Walt is asking him about Gale was chilling. Also, "who wants to make $100 bucks?"
- Skyler being a great accountant not translating into being a great writer. "It's a doozy, so hold on to your hats!"
- Gale's kareoke video. When was the last time you watched something so hysterical and sad at the same time.
- They seemed to clear up a lot of the questions we had last week - Hank doesn't know about Walt paying his bills (yet), and they are using the gambling story to explain where they got the $800k (duh). I'm still confused as to how that translates into being ultra-frugal and waiting on Walt's unemployment checks.
- That final scene was a great cliffhanger. We know this early in the season Jesse can't be killed, but where is Mike taking him?!
I cannot wait for next week.
Quote from: ©brad on August 08, 2011, 07:07:27 AM
- That final scene was a great cliffhanger. We know this early in the season Jesse can't be killed, but where is Mike taking him?!
indeed, killing Jesse now seems too soon but his demise seems imminent, maybe he's the one that ends up buying the 'paddle' and disappears.
maybe mike is taking him to promises. :yabbse-grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn6RjMhwn3w
I assumed Mike is taking Jesse to Gus's desert office. You could see white buildings in the distance, right? I agree they're not going to kill him. My prediction: they're going to threaten his family. Jesse may not care if he lives or dies, but that would shake him up for sure, especially if they mention his little brother. If I were Gus, I would do this.
I think the plot holes are melting away. Like cbrad said, the now infamous champagne bit doesn't entirely add up, but it doesn't seem to matter, and there are ways out of it. Skylar could have been trying to maintain the facade on paper until they revealed the gambling thing. But really, that only adds an unecessary lie, because they planned to reveal the earnings anyway, right? There was presumably nothing illegal about what Walter did. Maybe this is Skylar's mistake, not the writers'.
I thought it was funny how complex the gambling story turned out to be. Seems like everyone was impressed with Walter, and it's not entirely clear that he should be feeling ashamed about it. In the balance, what harm did it cause? Isn't gambling addiction typically a problem when the gambler in question has destroyed his or her family's finances? Since when does an addicted gambler go into treatment following massive winnings that will secure his family's (and even his extended family's) future? Again, I'm sure this paradox was intended by the writers, and it's actually pretty clever.
My favorite moments from the episode:
- Gale's video. Exactly as cbrad said... what a potent combination of humor and sadness.
- The Jesse close-up.
- During the bullet-point conversation, when Walter says "I'm truly sorry for all I put this family through" (paraphrasing) with real emotion... There's the illusion that it's part of their planned theatre, but we know it's real.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 10, 2011, 02:12:42 PM
I assumed Mike is taking Jesse to Gus's desert office. You could see white buildings in the distance, right? I agree they're not going to kill him. My prediction: they're going to threaten his family. Jesse may not care if he lives or dies, but that would shake him up for sure, especially if they mention his little brother. If I were Gus, I would do this.
Good prediction. I read an interview with the guy who plays Mike and he said he spends a lot of time with Jesse this season. So wherever they're heading, they might be there for a while.
Does anyone know where to find scripts of any Breaking Bad episodes? I've been searching online and haven't had any luck. TV scripts seem to be tougher to find online than screenplays...
Quote from: ©brad on August 10, 2011, 04:34:34 PMI read an interview with the guy who plays Mike and he said he spends a lot of time with Jesse this season.
Oh, interesting... maybe some unconventional rehab?
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 10, 2011, 05:16:26 PM
Quote from: ©brad on August 10, 2011, 04:34:34 PMI read an interview with the guy who plays Mike and he said he spends a lot of time with Jesse this season.
Oh, interesting... maybe some unconventional rehab?
maybe mike turns jesse into a killing machine...
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 10, 2011, 02:12:42 PM
- During the bullet-point conversation, when Walter says "I'm truly sorry for all I put this family through" (paraphrasing) with real emotion... There's the illusion that it's part of their planned theatre, but we know it's real.
you're talking about the rehearsal right? because I interpreted the opposite of you (part of it), here's what Walt says:
Walt: I don't want Jr thinking less of me.
Skyler: At least you won it gambling, I'm just the bitch mom who couldn't cut you any slack.
*pause*
Walt: I'm sorry, I'm sorry that i put you through all of this
Skyler: *drops her jaw* *looks moved by it*
Walt: how's that sound?...hmm?
yes it was delivered with emotion but Walt was acting, Skyler's reaction is real I think, she thought that Walt was being sincere, that he was actually apologizing to her for everything, that's until he says ''how's that sound'', then she just stays speechless.
Walt is too proud, before the above he even justifies again for the nth time that he was/is providing for his family, he's proud of being the provider he never was, if it's with meth the hell with it, he's doing it.
I see your perspective, but I still have the opposite interpretation.
Whenever we've seen Walt get emotional in this series, it's been sincere. I don't think there's any basis for believing he was acting in that moment. I interpreted it as him communicating a real apology, without the pressure of certainty that he was sincere. It was a loophole that allowed him to do it. Because he wanted to. And he is sorry for what he's put his family through. (He's not sorry for providing for them. He's sorry about how it played out.)
I agree with Fernando because it's all about the emotion you leave the scene with. if it was directed/edited to be a rehearsal and then you're left with a serious look from Walt, then you would know he really meant it. however the scene does two emotional flips. first it's a rehearsal, then you think oh shit he means that, then you're left with him asking for the pen to change the dialog into something better, something that sounds more genuine. because his mind is thinking of the best thing to say, we know it's not genuine. Even though i know it's a grey area and it's a bit of both, the crucial sentiment in a scene is how it closes; it is what leaves us with hope or doom.
it was a fucking great scene. this was, in my opinion, the best episode of the season. every season has two or three episodes that are this well written and acted. "fly" and the episode from the first season with Walt's conversation with the guy bike locked in the basement come to mind.
Wow, really? I think you're both completely wrong.
Quote from: socketlevel on August 11, 2011, 10:38:51 AMI agree with Fernando because it's all about the emotion you leave the scene with.
In this case, it may be about the misinterpretation you left the scene with.
It's about the emotion in
that moment, and Walter's emotion was real. As I've said, he does not fake emotion like that... he never has at any point in the series. His lies with Skylar were always about practical things (nothing this deep), and he would deliver them in his jolly/hapless/nervous way. He does not fake that strained, angsty, regretful face. Ever.
Just because he breaks it, it must have been this inexplicably lifelike and completely random fakery? No... he breaks it because the intensity of it is too much for him, and he's too proud to go all the way (yet).
Quote from: socketlevel on August 11, 2011, 10:38:51 AMif it was directed/edited to be a rehearsal and then you're left with a serious look from Walt, then you would know he really meant it. however the scene does two emotional flips.
That doesn't mean we need to interpret the scene 100% straightforwardly based on the last thing that happened, disregarding the intense moment (of sincere emotion) that came just a few seconds earlier, just because there was an emotional flip. Breaking Bad has always had emotional complexity like this, and more than three seasons in, it's still an open question, and we still can't appreciate it?
Seriously... rewatch the scene!
I must know cbrad's thoughts on this controversy.
Quote from: Fernando on August 10, 2011, 05:22:05 PMWalt is too proud, before the above he even justifies again for the nth time that he was/is providing for his family, he's proud of being the provider he never was, if it's with meth the hell with it, he's doing it.
And I don't think this is an accurate characterization of Walter's motives. He is certainly proud of what he's done for his family, but he's not entirely proud of how he's done it, and definitely not happy with what he's done to his family. The writers have said as much
through the actual dialogue many times. Walter is anything but a black-and-white "I cook meth and provide for my family, so deal with it" character. It's complex, as this show tends to be.
Yeah I'm on team Jeremy here. Look we know Walt doesn't really want to buy this car wash or attend gambling support groups. His feigning interest in both is an attempt to placate Skyler. He's pissed off. He's stressed as shit. And the last thing he wants to do is walk through Skyler's ridiculously over-thought outline. Dude has bigger things on his mind. He makes this very clear in his meeting with Sal. He's being an impatient, sarcastic ass, but he can be that and also express sincere remorse at the same time.
Maybe it was Walter's pride that led him to add that sarcastic bit at the very end. Maybe he saw Skyler was tearing up and about to get very emotional, and wasn't in the mood to let it all out right then. I just don't see how this final moment of him amending the script negates the apology. Hell he better be sorry, otherwise I'm not sure why we're still rooting for him.
When Walt asks for the pen to change the line, the audience is with Skylar at that moment; the disappointment that it wasn't real. We see her pain and the attempt to hide it because even though Walt isn't apologizing, he is in fact approaching what she originally wanted from the scene; proactive engagement rather than dismissal of the script she proposed. It's bitter sweet for her. It is her emotional expectation, not his. Therefore it ends up being her scene and not his. In Walt's performance there was no hesitation to cover up his bad feelings toward what he has done. if there was a slight hesitation (something Brian cranston is really good at doing) then clearly it would have been genuine. He takes the pen, makes the changes and is unaware of any potential discomfort from what he said.
just like editing, the emotions and dialog of moments are only relevant when looking at the surrounding emotions and intent. The entire pay off of that scene and emotional exchange comes from reversals. If all we ever did was look at emotions of "that moment" then we remove irony, satire, grief, disappointment and so many other dramatic devices from our palette.
He breaks it in a way that he has no self reflection on the moment. Skylar is the one reflecting, and therefore she (and hopefully the audience) is disappointed in his inability to take accountability.
Quote from: socketlevel on August 11, 2011, 01:09:14 PM
When Walt asks for the pen to change the line, the audience is with Skylar at that moment; the disappointment that it wasn't real.
I know what you're getting at, but I think her reaction was more like this: "Wow, what was
that?" It wasn't really acted well enough to give us more information than that. She probably has a few things going through her mind... probably something like "did he just do that?" combined with "well that's a little disappointing, I thought he was going to see that through."
We don't have nearly enough information to assume (as you are) that Skylar believed it was 100% fake, and we
definitely don't have enough information to go beyond that and assume that it was indeed fake. The strongest evidence we have is Walter's emotion in that moment, which as I've described, and which is supported by the entire history and context of the show since its inception, was very likely a moment of real emotional clarity.
The conclusions you're drawing are loosely related to what actually appeared on screen... moreover they contradict the entire history and current trajectory of the characters and the story.
(BB debating is fun!)
it is indeed :)
The main reason i say this is because we're clearly in her head at the end of the scene, which makes it "her" scene. This is a staple of visual story telling. Another example of this can be seen when Walt is talking to Hank the tank. The scene Hank fills Walt in on the case he's been asked to look at. In that entire scene, we the audience, are with Walter's every thought. Is he going to get caught? how will he outwit Hank? Will Hank figure it out? etc... information is being held from Hank at that moment. Information that we the audience have.
I'm not saying every scene has only one person's perspective, there can be more than one, or reversals, or in some cases there can be none. Robert Altman is famous for making movies that don't utilize this subjective technique.
But back to BB and the scene in question, the audience is clearly in Skylar's head at the end of that scene; which means Walt is unaware of something that Skylar and the audience is not. What makes this scene very affective is the fact that when Walt starts to "apologize" it's establishing it as "his" scene. we think, here is the moment he is addressing his grave mistakes and how much it jeopardized his family. The scene could have ended with Skylar saying "That's a great line, change it." and handed him the pen. This version of the scene (which could have been totally fucking awesome too) would leave Walter (and the audience) disappointed that she couldn't see his cryptic attempt to apologize. we would therefore be sympathizing with Walt at the end. One of the brilliant techniques is that right when it's going to be Walt's scene, it ends up being Skylar's scene; which ends in true BB awesomeness because they don't go for the obvious. Instead they went for the more tragic ending.
Quote from: socketlevel on August 11, 2011, 01:09:14 PMHe breaks it in a way that he has no self reflection on the moment. Skylar is the one reflecting, and therefore she (and hopefully the audience) is disappointed in his inability to take accountability.
Again, I think he
is taking accountability, it's just veiled in sarcasm and frustration.
I see him as saying "I am truly sorry for everything, but at this very moment I have more pressing things on my mind than rehearsing this ridiculous story for my jackass in-laws. Things like, is my boss going to slice my throat open tomorrow? Point being, I love you, now fuck off."
I think if you were right brad, Walt would have hesitated or looked shy not being able to look her in the eye (something that character does a lot). instead he happily goes about changing the line on the page.
That's way too much to assume. As cbrad said, he has plenty of things twisting him up inside, and he's pointedly on edge. It makes total sense that a breakthrough of real emotion like that would be brief and would end abruptly. What we're saying is that he's sort of batting it down... he's definitely not ready to fully express his regret.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 11, 2011, 12:02:21 PM
Quote from: Fernando on August 10, 2011, 05:22:05 PMWalt is too proud, before the above he even justifies again for the nth time that he was/is providing for his family, he's proud of being the provider he never was, if it's with meth the hell with it, he's doing it.
And I don't think this is an accurate characterization of Walter's motives. He is certainly proud of what he's done for his family, but he's not entirely proud of how he's done it, and definitely not happy with what he's done to his family. The writers have said as much through the actual dialogue many times. Walter is anything but a black-and-white "I cook meth and provide for my family, so deal with it" character. It's complex, as this show tends to be.
no, no, no, my bad. the right word I wanted to use was pride, he has too much pride, i agree on everything you said above specially ''Walter is anything but a black-and-white...''
I reread my post and see why you thought that; I got lost in translation.
unfortunately, ill have to read the rest of the posts later as I have a lot of work now
Fair enough.
Need to add something. I realized I forgot the strongest part of my argument, but I needed to re-watch this scene to pull out what I was thinking about.
Walter certainly has some resentment going on, and he realizes Skylar is trying to punish him with this whole exercise. I understand how that can be interpreted as likely to evoke a simply hostile response. But it's more complex. Let's review it:
Skylar says, "I'm just the bitch mom that wouldn't cut you any slack." Walter clearly feels bad about this, so he pauses, gets emotional, appears to introspect for a moment, and he says the thing we've been talking about: "I'm sorry... I'm sorry that I put you through all of this..." Look again at the way he nods when he says "I'm sorry," and then his lips actually quiver like he's about to choke up. It's subtle, but it's undeniably there. Then we get a somewhat extended shot of Skylar giving him a clear look like, "Wow, is he really--" And Walter pulls back abruptly with "how's that sound?", which I think is a clear attempt to prevent Skylar from getting a full victory in this moment.
Perhaps even more significant is that Walter comes up with "I'm sorry... I'm sorry that I put you through all of this" from scratch. It's not even a variation on one of Skylar's lines. It's completely his. And there's no way he would create that notion just to be sarcastic about it, because it's too close to home and he knows it's true. (This is not even subtext; he's basically said as much through actual dialogue in previous episodes.)
Also remember that Walter is distressed right now about the danger he's currently putting his family in.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 11, 2011, 07:43:11 PM
Skylar says, "I'm just the bitch mom that wouldn't cut you any slack." Walter clearly feels bad about this, so he pauses, gets emotional, appears to introspect for a moment, and he says the thing we've been talking about: "I'm sorry... I'm sorry that I put you through all of this..." Look again at the way he nods when he says "I'm sorry," and then his lips actually quiver like he's about to choke up. It's subtle, but it's undeniably there. Then we get a somewhat extended shot of Skylar giving him a clear look like, "Wow, is he really--" And Walter pulls back abruptly with "how's that sound?", which I think is a clear attempt to prevent Skylar from getting a full victory in this moment.
This makes sense to me. At some level, consciously or not, he does feel that way, but his pride forbids him from coming out and saying it without the cover of "just rehearsing". Yes, he's proud that he's providing for his family, but he also finally has a sense of just how dangerous his path is, and there's no way he doesn't feel regret over getting his family involved in it.
DONE: AMC & Sony TV Reach Deal For 16-Episode Final Order Of 'Breaking Bad'
Source: Deadline
After tense and public negotiations, AMC just closed a deal with producer Sony Pictures TV to renew dark drama Breaking Bad for a final batch of 16 episodes. The episodes are expected to be filmed together but may be split into two seasons, with a final scheduling decision to be made at a later date. The deal comes just as the series was facing two deadlines: its license deal with AMC was set to expire tomorrow and the options on the actors are up Aug. 31. The two sides have reached a compromise over the stickiest issue --who will cover the series' budget of $3 million-plus. I hear both Sony TV and AMC will contribute.
While negotiations were contentious and Sony did flirt with the idea of moving Breaking Bad to another network, the two sides started making progress over the past two weeks, leading to today's deal. With the series renewal secured, Sony TV now has to make a new deal with Breaking Bad creator/ executive producer Vince Gilligan, who doesn't have a contract beyond Season 4 but is fully expected to return for the series' final hurrah. The cast, led by Emmy winners Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul, may also renegotiate their deals.
Walt's going to kill Jesse. And all you nerds were wrong.
This show is impossible to predict. Jesse probably lives.
What a superb episode. Just everything about it, every minute. That scene with Walter pouring wine was so cinematic, like something out of the Godfather.
Quote from: S.R. on August 14, 2011, 11:40:52 PM
Walt's going to kill Jesse. And all you nerds were wrong.
This show is impossible to predict. Jesse probably lives.
Dunno, I've done okay so far. I wasn't totally right about what Mike was doing, but I was right that it was unconventional rehab. I was right about Walter's apology (some disagreed that it was even an apology) leading to the reconciliation.
Seriously though, this was one of the best episodes in the series. Probably even worth a rewatch before next week. The season is young, and it's already given us this one and the season premier. I like where this is going.
it was the best episode of the season thus far for sure. a return to lots of stuff happening. the final scene actually made me slap my knee.
i still find mike very annoying.
Walter never ceases to amaze me, like I said the guy has too much pride.
i don't care that he was drunkish, his stupid big ego shows up again when hank is saying how a genius is gale, he has to take away credit from a dead's guy! it was already done, they were no longer searching for heisenberg, but he hates when someone takes away credit from him, like when walter jr sets up that donation site and he is furious when saul solves the problem of cleaning the money.
Quote from: picolas on August 15, 2011, 11:49:23 PM
i still find mike very annoying.
I love Mike! I always imagine him as the star of his own show where he's just trying to be a professional, do his job, and go home and play with his grandkids, and these loose-cannon idiots keep fucking up his day.
Yes, totally. Mike works for me.
Also, Gus's plan was genius. What drug kingpin uses positive reinforcement to straighten out an underling?
Here's an acute observation (on Gus's scheme) from the AV Club's Donna Bowman:
The immediate goal is to tie Jesse more tightly to the organization in order to prompt a clean-up of his risky off-hours lifestyle, to give him something to live for and someone else to be loyal to. But I suspect that Gus is also trying to cut the umbilical cord between Jesse and Walter, isolating Walter further and eliminating his ability to appeal to their partnership as a bargaining chip.
I can't stop listening to this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQ7S38nKog) I think my penis grew an inch after watching that time lapse sequence, and I know I bitched about time lapse earlier but whatever. I can't believe I'm watching a TV show when I watch this sometimes.
Great episode.
Did anyone find Gus's plan for Jesse too contrived? To me it seemed to serve the end of the previous episode more than anything else. Plus it went off so perfectly despite there being all sorts of holes in the plan. That and the conversation at the end where Mike confirmed "Everything went just how you thought it would go," or whatever, rubbed me the wrong way.
Still a good episode, just not as great as episode 4.
No... I thought the plan was pretty genius. Anything less contrived, and Jesse might have figured it out. He has to believe that he's "shaping up" of his own free will.
But I do agree about that line, which was probably the weakest thing in the episode. I'm not sure how I'd say it differently, but yeah, that was a little heavy-handed. It smells like something that was rewritten to be more clear.
My Gramma's ep is going to be on this sunday! Although it sounds like her part has changed entirely... she said Bryan Cranston is exactly who you think he is and when the day was done, announced "Ladies and Gentlemen, this was Cecilia Holguin's first attempt at acting and i think she did one hell of a job!" and lead everyone in applause and hugs... I've never heard my gramma sound so excited, she sound 13 years old, it's beautiful to hear her tell it... I'm stoked to watch it but bummed that i haven't been watching BB already, hope i don't ruin anything. Keep an eye out for her, she'll be the short, pissed off, hispanic lady :)
Quote from: 72teeth on August 17, 2011, 06:15:08 PMshe'll be the short, pissed off, hispanic lady :)
cool beans!
i felt the same way about that line. another rare moment of cruddy exposition.
checked... the line was "anyway, just like you wanted, the kid's a hero."
at the very least it should have been "anyway, the kid's a hero. just like you wanted." less awkward.
Cecila Holguin-Anaya as Woman #1!
Well, it wasn't a super huge part, she was the blonde Honduran worker who Walt payed to clean up, but i am super proud of me Grammy! :bravo:
Although, it's weird, but i really wish she did get killed on screen :twisted:
I saw her! Do you live in New Mexico?
Pretty good episode. Another laying the ground work episode.
Quote from: S.R. on August 22, 2011, 05:47:14 PM
I saw her! Do you live in New Mexico?
nah, but she does... i think she might have been an extra for The Avengers?
Also very much liked the episode. Moved the story forward but with all those lovely, well-crafted intense small scenes.
It's interesting how Walter has figured out the Jesse wedge scheme, but he's still playing right into it. That's so Walter. With the cleaning ladies thing he did get minor temporary revenge, but by doing that he gave full confirmation that it's getting to him, i.e. the wedge is working. And really, he needs to be nicer to Jesse to try to win him back, develop their camaraderie or something. The way he told his theory to Jesse was insulting/abrasive. He did get Jesse thinking, though, which is good. And I think Jesse is smart enough to be skeptical of what Gus told him.
Side note. I do find it somewhat hard to believe that the cleaning ladies were so easily persuaded. Sure, it's money, but they had to be looking around for the cameras. Don't think they would risk their jobs. I mean it's not like Walter even told them they would be safe; he only bribed them.
Overall, Walter is not handling things very skillfully. He's operating from a very volatile/emotional place. I know that's nothing new, but I thought for sure he would start getting it right this season. When will he figure it out? Are all of his emotions concerning his family screwing him up? Will he eventually decide (soon, perhaps) that to protect his family he needs to get colder and go full Heisenberg?
Killer last line, delivered perfectly. "Someone has to protect this family from the man who protects this family." Reminded me of IFT.
Quote from: 72teeth on August 22, 2011, 01:14:15 AM
Cecila Holguin-Anaya as Woman #1!
Well, it wasn't a super huge part, she was the blonde Honduran worker who Walt payed to clean up, but i am super proud of me Grammy! :bravo:
Although, it's weird, but i really wish she did get killed on screen :twisted:
dude, i'm just incredibly sad your gramma had to go out like
this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wR1MVdDmUA). brutal.
^LOL
So what about Skyler flipping the coin?
Very cool that they used James Hand's music. He was also featured on Friday Night Lights.
Quote from: tpfkabi on August 23, 2011, 01:51:35 PM
So what about Skyler flipping the coin?
Very cool that they used James Hand's music. He was also featured on Friday Night Lights.
Ugh, i kinda got this ugly "Weeds" vibe from that, I'm not really sure why. What if walt died and the last season is about Skylar only? Don't think she could carry the show. I mean she's no Connie Britton.
In other news, "I AM THE DANGER! I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS!"
Was it meant to imply she was considering running away with their baby?
Hmm I don't know about this episode. It wasn't bad really, it just felt like the writers were treading water, particularly with Walter and Skyler. I mean dang we've seen this same argument between them 10 times now and this one didn't really break any new ground. All the progress they made just last episode, with them boning and reuniting abruptly and awkwardly reverted right back to where they were 2 episodes ago.
A lot of the interweb is bitching that we're not getting enough Gus. I don't really agree with that. I feel the less screen time he gets the more menacing he is, kind of in a Hannibal Lector way. It makes the moments we do see him all the more awesome/terrifying. Plus I'm sure as we turn the corner to the second half of the season we'll be seeing more of him.
Skyler's daytrip was beautifully shot.
Walt hiring the mexican ladies was funny.
The shovel POV shot was pointless.
Two seasons ago, Vince Gilligan said in interviews that he felt the show could last four seasons. Now he says five, which seems to suggest that maybe, just maybe, this is sort of a filler season. At least the first half. On the one hand I really appreciate everyone having to deal with the consequences of their actions, and I like the slow build-up to what will surely be a tense last few episodes (Walt has to supersede Gus as the drug kingpin, right? Gus isn't long for this world) and all the significant thematic plants (Bogdan's dialogue to Walt about how to be a boss). On the other hand, I've yet to be fully satisfied with the cut to black on any of the last few episodes.
Quote from: ©brad on August 24, 2011, 10:28:35 PM
Walt hiring the mexican ladies was funny.
Honduran. You racist.
Quote from: polkablues on August 24, 2011, 10:53:08 PM
Quote from: ©brad on August 24, 2011, 10:28:35 PM
Walt hiring the mexican ladies was funny.
Honduran. You racist.
no he's right, all three of those women were in fact mexican :)
I was disappointed with the first 6 or 7 episodes of last season too, but it made up for it with the last 6 or so.
Quote from: ©brad on August 24, 2011, 10:28:35 PM
The shovel POV shot was pointless.
It reminded me of the game Postal. Which i'm sure a lot of whacked out meth heads still play.
tonights episode...that's how you do it.
Yeah. And you get the feeling it's building to something extraordinary.
I loved that final sequence with Hank. The way he goes into the building and does his whole reveal. Masterfully done. I love Hank's character.
Also, I wanted to mention that we should really watch ourselves when we complain about things moving too slowly. The show has always been that way. Have we forgotten how little story is actually covered in Season 1, for example? The last 2-3 episodes of S3 were quickly paced, which is actually incredibly rare in the context of the show. I think that may have created some inaccurate expectations. Personally I almost forgot how much I love the slow, careful, almost excruciating pace, and the way it constructs the story. (That's largely what made Lost great, too.)
*spoils*
Breaking Bad is on its way to losing its character and become some kind of bland, straight drama.
First of all, this season has lost the touch of each episode beginning with the end and then working its way towards that cryptic opening. Breaking Bad seasons 1 through 3 all had that mystery where it begins in chaos and then after the credits it builds up to a point where you can understand the chaos. That whole approach reinforced the situation of the characters, where there were really no bad guys or good guys even, just people struggling to figure each other out. To be in on what was going on, but the truth being so simple it was complex. Everyone had valid reasons and that is so rare for television. There is usually a foil, some awful person who is the catalyst when something bad needs to happen and no protagonists are to blame.
Key example, the beginning of "Problem Dog" is Jesse playing a video game. Not just any game. Product placement for a new game in real life. He's killing zombies and having flashbacks of killing Gale. This develops nothing of Jesse. We know he's fucked in the head about it, why do they need to do another scene of him falling apart about it? Wasn't it enough to watch him drive around in a go-kart, another bland scene that establishes nothing?
Breaking Bad is losing its backbone. It's going into simpler, more boring territory. Even in the first episode of the fourth season, Skylar with the crying baby begging the locksmith to get her into the house. Such a stupid scene, really. It says nothing about her character other than directly: She is a nag and a liar. Breaking Bad has expertly crafted scenes for the first three seasons where people act in behavior that doesn't make sense immediately, but comes to a point over the arc of episodes, it all comes together. Now the instant gratification comes in. So much so that Gus is connected to Gale by FINGERPRINTS? What the fuck is this, CSI? That's so banal. Fingerprints. Of all the ways to connect someone in a show that proves it thinks on a level like chess where it's always moves ahead of its audience, it couldn't find a more creative way for Hank to notice an abstract link between Gale and Gus? The show is grinding into lazy plot devices. Characters just announce how they feel, it's become some melodrama.
Watch the pilot then watch an episode from this season. In fact, the second and third still hold up. I've been rewatching them to make sure I'm not crazy. There are a few moments that break from the Breaking Bad language that it works hard to maintain, but this new season has no regard for its established aesthetic. And it's not a matter of branching out. It's just stupid discussions of zombies for LEFT 4 DEAD THE VIDEO GAME and MODERN WARFARE ZOMBIES THE VIDEO GAME and everybody drinks COCA-COLA.
I still watch because overall the show maintains a quality above most other programs and like a train wreck in slow motion, I want to see the debris and amount of survivors and all that. But the show is losing its balls. It is not what it was, it's the bastard child.
More than ever now, too, Walt's a crotchety dick and Skylar's a whiny bitch. "I WANNA BUY A LUXURIOUS CAR FOR OUR SON" "YOU'RE GOING TO FOIL OUR RUSE, TAKE IT BACK" These are not concerns of this couple, they are bland exaggerations. Of course Walt wants better things for his family, but he's not retarded. Skylar needs to play along better, she's complaining Walt makes too much money. Stuff it in the fucking wall, who cares what you do with all the loose thousands of dollars? Do you plan on telling the IRS about it? It's all drug money. The banter they have is forced and don't they have a baby? Why has the only scene the baby has played a part in was the first episode of the fourth season? Shouldn't the presence of an infant have a bigger impact on a meth dealing husband/wife duo?
Not to mention, I read this thread and hear discussions of coworkers and Breaking Bad continues to be eaten up, moreso than when it was first on and breaking new ground for televised drama. People now are shitting themselves over how brilliant the show is a season too late. For the sake of the quality of the ending of the show, I wished it was ending this season and not stretching into a fifth, hopefully final season. Honestly, the show should've ended on the third season with Jesse killing Gale. That says enough. It wraps it all up in a Breaking Bad way, too. It captures Jesse being forced into being dehumanized, losing his identity by being thrust into a situation beyond his control, but a situation he put himself into.
The time-lapse shot was pretty epic, all things considered.
What?
Quote from: walrus, the on August 30, 2011, 02:19:08 AMFirst of all, this season has lost the touch of each episode beginning with the end and then working its way towards that cryptic opening. Breaking Bad seasons 1 through 3 all had that mystery where it begins in chaos and then after the credits it builds up to a point where you can understand the chaos.
I looked through a bunch of episode recaps, and I think you're completely wrong. Many of the season 2 teasers focused on the bear/pool motif, which were obviously not addressed in the episodes that followed. The season 3 teasers mostly followed the cousins. Those that didn't were often only marginally connected, and some of them were just not very good. (Example: the teaser for The Fly.) The season 4 teasers have been just as mysterious, chaotic, connected, and meaningful, and probably moreso...
Box Cutter - The scene with Gale unpacking things establishes the box cutter and gives us some fascinating/crucial backstory. Probably one of the best teasers the show has ever had.
Thirty-Eight Snub - Walt buys a gun. Builds tension because we know Walt is going to use it or try to use it. Just as the box cutter was established in the E1 teaser, the gun is established in the E2 teaser. I wasn't a fan of the dealer's dialogue, but overall this was a very effective and necessary teaser.
Open House - Cameras follow Walt in the lab; he confronts one and gives it the finger. It was funny and cleverly established the new relationship between Walt and his employer... and Walt's current state of childish disgruntlement and general turmoil. The concision and efficiency of this teaser is brilliant, actually. Another character-focused teaser.
Bullet Points - Mike in the refrigerated truck. Again, one of the show's best teasers ever. It's there mostly to reinforce Mike's cold, hard skills and his commitment to his employer, which puts a lot of weight behind the trip he takes with Jesse at the end... it's make all the more foreboding. It also contrasts Mike's professionalism with Walt's professionalism (or lack thereof). Yet another character-focused teaser.
Shotgun - Here's the "chaos" you were talking about. Walter drives around wildly, making arrangements with Saul and his wife as if it could all end. Again, probably one of the best teasers in the show's history (that makes 3 so far). Perhaps the most effective thing it does is describe Walt's dedication to his partner (Jesse) with the manic/heroic determination only to CRUSH it when Walt finally gets to speak to a tragically indifferent Jesse. Brilliant.
Cornered - The cartel has figured out Gus's operation and how to plunder his trucks. This scene describes how cold-blooded they are (eating the driver's lunch while the people die inside the truck), and it establishes the mystery which is answered later in the episode (why they only took one bucket, and what its significance is). It also establishes the titular theme of the episode (Gus is obviously being "cornered" here, and Walter is elsewhere in the episode). It
also establishes the character who meets with Gus in the next episode.
Problem Dog - Having Gale's image pop into the video game was very disturbing, and it did a great job of putting me in Jesse's head. This reminds us that Jesse is still dealing with it (especially because he plays it again), but more importantly it sets up the wonderful "problem dog" scene, where we learn that Jesse is not only still dealing with the event itself, but he's dealing with
how to deal with it.
Quote from: walrus, the on August 30, 2011, 02:19:08 AMEveryone had valid reasons and that is so rare for television.
And they still do. Whose motives are you confused about?
Quote from: walrus, the on August 30, 2011, 02:19:08 AMEven in the first episode of the fourth season, Skylar with the crying baby begging the locksmith to get her into the house. Such a stupid scene, really. It says nothing about her character other than directly: She is a nag and a liar.
I think you just don't like Skyler.
That scene was completely necessary (and subtle enough). It answered questions that we really needed answered... Does Skyler still care about Walt? Is she morally flexible enough to carry out the deception that is now required? Yes and yes.
Quote from: walrus, the on August 30, 2011, 02:19:08 AMSo much so that Gus is connected to Gale by FINGERPRINTS? What the fuck is this, CSI? That's so banal. Fingerprints.
You didn't think that was clever? The way Hank got the fingerprints from Gus? The fact that Gus was arrogant enough to meet with Gale in his apartment without taking precautions? No, this isn't CSI. CSI would have tried to concoct something overcomplicated, using technology and instruments that don't even exist (they do that). Fingerprints are elegant. I thought it was fantastic.
Quote from: walrus, the on August 30, 2011, 02:19:08 AMI want to see the debris and amount of survivors and all that.
What do you mean?
Quote from: walrus, the on August 30, 2011, 02:19:08 AMHonestly, the show should've ended on the third season with Jesse killing Gale. That says enough.
I hope you're not serious. That would be the most ridiculous place to end the show that I could possibly imagine. All kinds of crucial cliffhangers were introduced. How much will Skyler cooperate, and what's the status of their relationship? Will they buy the car wash? Is Gale in fact dead (some people were unclear)? How will Gus react? What will happen to Walt? What will happen to Jesse?
Not to mention the fact that the show's arc was always meant to be about Walt's journey, Jesse's being a sort of bonus. Ending the series focused on Jesse and pretty much discarding Walter White's arc would be absurd.
I don't want it to seem that I'm leaving your points unaddressed. I am going to rewatch the first episodes of this season so far, but these problems all came to mind for me immediately when watching this new season. I love the show, so I'll give it the benefit of a doubt before I respond, but I appreciate you going through my points.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 30, 2011, 02:46:29 PM
I looked through a bunch of episode recaps, and I think you're completely wrong. Many of the season 2 teasers focused on the bear/pool motif, which were obviously not addressed in the episodes that followed. The season 3 teasers mostly followed the cousins. Those that didn't were often only marginally connected, and some of them were just not very good. (Example: the teaser for The Fly.) The season 4 teasers have been just as mysterious, chaotic, connected, and meaningful, and probably moreso...
Box Cutter - The scene with Gale unpacking things establishes the box cutter and gives us some fascinating/crucial backstory. Probably one of the best teasers the show has ever had.
Thirty-Eight Snub - Walt buys a gun. Builds tension because we know Walt is going to use it or try to use it. Just as the box cutter was established in the E1 teaser, the gun is established in the E2 teaser. I wasn't a fan of the dealer's dialogue, but overall this was a very effective and necessary teaser.
you mean something like "cold opening" right? Cause everytime i read teaser i kept thinking it was a "Next time on Breaking Bad" teaser...
Quote from: squints on August 31, 2011, 03:47:01 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 30, 2011, 02:46:29 PM
I looked through a bunch of episode recaps, and I think you're completely wrong. Many of the season 2 teasers focused on the bear/pool motif, which were obviously not addressed in the episodes that followed. The season 3 teasers mostly followed the cousins. Those that didn't were often only marginally connected, and some of them were just not very good. (Example: the teaser for The Fly.) The season 4 teasers have been just as mysterious, chaotic, connected, and meaningful, and probably moreso...
Box Cutter - The scene with Gale unpacking things establishes the box cutter and gives us some fascinating/crucial backstory. Probably one of the best teasers the show has ever had.
Thirty-Eight Snub - Walt buys a gun. Builds tension because we know Walt is going to use it or try to use it. Just as the box cutter was established in the E1 teaser, the gun is established in the E2 teaser. I wasn't a fan of the dealer's dialogue, but overall this was a very effective and necessary teaser.
you mean something like "cold opening" right? Cause everytime i read teaser i kept thinking it was a "Next time on Breaking Bad" teaser...
Thanks to cbrad, I've been listening to the Breaking Bad Insider podcast. They call them "teasers" so that's what they are to me now.
I think this season kind of sucks so far.
I disagree; the season has a clear direction and a nice sense of foreboding, and pretty much all its characters are as interesting as they've ever been. I think there's been maybe 1 weak episode this season. Season 3 had at least 2-3 weak or bad episodes.
Walt wants to kill Gus! The cartel wants to kill Gus! Hank is onto Gus! I cannot wait to see how all these threads collide.
A few random thoughts:
- How awesome was that opening car scene!
- I think the cold open would have been stronger if they hadn't included shots of Gale in the video game footage, which was a little heavy-handed. All we needed to see was Jesse's face to drive that point home.
- Will Jesse turn on Walt? Honestly at this point I wouldn't blame him. I can't believe Walt is asking him to kill someone
again.
- Walt has been a petulant idiot for most of the season. And I love it.
- Do we want Gus to die? I have to say after all he's done I'm still kind of rooting for him as much as I am Walt. Knocking him out means saying goodbye to one of the most badass villains ever. I have to assume he's got a plan for all of this.
Quote from: S.R. on August 31, 2011, 03:31:32 PM
I think this season kind of sucks so far.
You will be eating your words come end of season. Hell, maybe even by next episode.
I don't think Jesse will turn on Walt. As abrasive as Walt has been, it's been made obvious to us that Jesse agrees with his analysis of the situation, i.e. that Gus's interest in him is suspect and it's probably meant to drive a wedge between them. Remember that Jesse's "street smarts" as they say has always been a core part of his character.
Quote from: ©brad on September 02, 2011, 10:46:13 AMWalt has been a petulant idiot for most of the season. And I love it.
Yeah. I think his character is in this sort of interesting transition period, heading toward full Heisenberg. It's funny, because he has probably technically been full Heisenberg since the end of S3, but he's been on this leash, and it's frustrating him to no end. I assume he will be unleashed by the end of this season. If he's not, I
will be disappointed.
Also, funny story. I saw my sister last week. She said she had to tell me about this show she was watching because it was amazing and I would probably like it. Yes... Breaking Bad. She's 18 and heard about it from her friend... apparently the kids are into it.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 02, 2011, 01:01:20 PM
Also, funny story. I saw my sister last week. She said she had to tell me about this show she was watching because it was amazing and I would probably like it. Yes... Breaking Bad. She's 18 and heard about it from her friend... apparently the kids are into it.
Haha that's funny. You know who else likes this show - republicans! I read an article earlier in the summer that said it plays very well in the red states.
Hmm I figured they'd be turned off by the whole "man turns to meth cooking to pay for his cancer treatment because our health care system is horrible" plot.
Did no one watch that last episode? that flashback was crazy.
God i've been waiting all day for xixax to come back up so i could talk to some people about this.
I liked it.
Random prediction: Since they're starting to cover Gus's backstory, his days are numbered.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 07, 2011, 11:53:57 PM
Random prediction: Since they're starting to cover Gus's backstory, his days are numbered.
hahah this made me think: "So
Breaking Bad is becoming
LOST?"
As soon as we gain sympathy for a character, they're wiped out. RIP Shannon and Ana-Lucia.
Bon Voyage, Gus!
Loved it as well. I think one of the best moments of the season is when Walt goes into Pollos Hermanos with the tracer and Gus steps up to the register to greet him. The way Gus smiles as he says "DO IT" gave me chills.
Also, um, Gus is gay right?
I don't think Gus is gay... Didn't he say he has a family or wife & kids or something?
Quote from: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on September 08, 2011, 08:34:33 AMhahah this made me think: "So Breaking Bad is becoming LOST?"
As soon as we gain sympathy for a character, they're wiped out. RIP Shannon and Ana-Lucia.
Don't forget Boone!
Quote from: ©brad on September 08, 2011, 09:08:36 AM
Also, um, Gus is gay right?
I think the flashback made it pretty explicit that he and the other guy were more than just business partners. Especially the way the cook said "I need him" when he was begging for Gus' life.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 08, 2011, 10:42:11 AM
I don't think Gus is gay... Didn't he say he has a family or wife & kids or something?
That means nothing, though. So do Ted Haggard and Larry Craig.
Quote from: polkablues on September 08, 2011, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: ©brad on September 08, 2011, 09:08:36 AM
Also, um, Gus is gay right?
I think the flashback made it pretty explicit that he and the other guy were more than just business partners. Especially the way the cook said "I need him" when he was begging for Gus' life.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 08, 2011, 10:42:11 AM
I don't think Gus is gay... Didn't he say he has a family or wife & kids or something?
That means nothing, though. So do Ted Haggard and Larry Craig.
Exactly. Another clue was Hector pissing in the pool and asking them "if they like what they see" (or something like that).
Weird, I didn't even pick up on that. Gaydar recalibrated.
Seasons 1-3 on Netflix Instant now.
Definitely liked this episode.
Again, I'll reiterate my point of view that Walt's erratic/reckless behavior is setting him up as the next Tuco.
In fact, wouldn't it be clever if the final season ended with Walt finishing Tuco's arc, sort of a full circle thing? Perhaps Jesse is his assistant that he accidentally beats to death, and later Walt has a shootout with Hank. (Okay, maybe a stretch.)
I also had a theory that in Gus's mysterious Chilean past, he was somehow involved with Pinochet.
The AV Club has an especially good review (http://www.avclub.com/articles/bug,61415/) of this episode.
I also re-watched last week's episode, and yes, the gay thing is quite obvious. They also talked about it on the podcast. Vince Gilligan said it could be left open to interpretation, but it's clear that's where they were going with it, and in fact Kelley Dixon (podcast host and the editor of that episode) mentioned that it (the gay thing) was in the script.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 12, 2011, 02:59:04 AM
I also re-watched last week's episode, and yes, the gay thing is quite obvious. They also talked about it on the podcast. Vince Gilligan said it could be left open to interpretation, but it's clear that's where they were going with it, and in fact Kelley Dixon (podcast host and the editor of that episode) mentioned that it (the gay thing) was in the script.
Jeremy were you able to download that podcast from itunes? I keep getting a 'cannot access file from server' message when I try and download podcast 408.
I had the same problem. I finally ran out of patience and streamed it directly from the Breaking Bad website yesterday.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 12, 2011, 02:59:04 AM
I also re-watched last week's episode, and yes, the gay thing is quite obvious. They also talked about it on the podcast. Vince Gilligan said it could be left open to interpretation, but it's clear that's where they were going with it, and in fact Kelley Dixon (podcast host and the editor of that episode) mentioned that it (the gay thing) was in the script.
The EW.com recap makes an interesting point. It was never made explicit, but Gale certainly pinged the gaydar, and he was also a recipient of Gus' chemistry scholarship. Could it be that there was more to his and Gus' relationship as well? If that's the case, there could a whole lot more smoldering under the surface in Gus' handling of Jesse and Walt than seems apparent.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 12, 2011, 02:59:04 AM
I also had a theory that in Gus's mysterious Chilean past, he was somehow involved with Pinochet.
Most definitely. The timing works out, and Don Eladio's line of how the only reason they killed the partner and not Gus is "I know who you are." Not sure how it's going to come into play yet, but he definitely had some direct connection that the cartel didn't want to get on the wrong side of.
Really liked this episode. I'm curious where they're going with Walt and Jesse. Walt needs to chill out. Jesse has been nothing but loyal to him. I know he's getting paranoid, but Jesse is the only one on his side.
The scene with Gus walking into the bullets with his arms stretched out like he was Jesus as the bullets were flying all around him was one of the silliest scenes this show has ever had. What the fuck was that?
Quote from: polkablues on September 12, 2011, 05:07:47 PMThe EW.com recap makes an interesting point. It was never made explicit, but Gale certainly pinged the gaydar, and he was also a recipient of Gus' chemistry scholarship. Could it be that there was more to his and Gus' relationship as well? If that's the case, there could a whole lot more smoldering under the surface in Gus' handling of Jesse and Walt than seems apparent.
That's interesting. I think Gale could have been gay (or maybe not), but I certainly didn't sense any good vibes going on between Gus and Gale. Coldness (or at best, feigned warmth) from Gus, and outright fear/terror from Gale.
Quote from: polkablues on September 12, 2011, 05:07:47 PMQuote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 12, 2011, 02:59:04 AM
I also had a theory that in Gus's mysterious Chilean past, he was somehow involved with Pinochet.
Most definitely. The timing works out, and Don Eladio's line of how the only reason they killed the partner and not Gus is "I know who you are." Not sure how it's going to come into play yet, but he definitely had some direct connection that the cartel didn't want to get on the wrong side of.
I will be disappointed if this doesn't pan out. In the same way I'll be disappointed if Gus isn't unseated (as everyone expects) by the end of this season. His reign has lasted long enough! I can't wait for Walt and Jesse (mostly Walt) to break free of him. Everyone in the podcast alludes to something big happening at the end of this season. Hopefully it's also surprising.
E: I predict that Gus will evoke the ghost of Pinochet to help him defeat Hank and the cartel, but that he does so at the cost of his own life and ultimately his soul.
Quote from: S.R. on September 12, 2011, 05:16:42 PMThe scene with Gus walking into the bullets with his arms stretched out like he was Jesus as the bullets were flying all around him was one of the silliest scenes this show has ever had. What the fuck was that?
I think it's less "you want a piece of me?" and more "okay fine, you win!" He knew the sniper wasn't going to kill him, because (as Mike points out later) they can't kill him. And the sniper was obviously aiming at the ground around Gus. As foreshadowed by Mike in the previous episode, Gus can't afford to have Hank and the cartel on him at the same time, so this was the last straw for Gus.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 12, 2011, 07:16:07 PM
Quote from: S.R. on September 12, 2011, 05:16:42 PMThe scene with Gus walking into the bullets with his arms stretched out like he was Jesus as the bullets were flying all around him was one of the silliest scenes this show has ever had. What the fuck was that?
I think it's less "you want a piece of me?" and more "okay fine, you win!" He knew the sniper wasn't going to kill him, because (as Mike points out later) they can't kill him. And the sniper was obviously aiming at the ground around Gus. As foreshadowed by Mike in the previous episode, Gus can't afford to have Hank and the cartel on him at the same time, so this was the last straw for Gus.
That part was all kinds of badass. I'll be the best friend for a day to whoever can gif that part for me.
Also Gale gave absolutely no gay vibes whatsoever. Just look at his apartment. Uber-nerdom does not a gay make.
I'm unclear on one plot point... Why exactly does the cartel need Gus alive? Mike said that they need his distribution network, but Gus isn't selling their drugs, he's only selling his own. Did the cartel already get a cut of Gus's earnings before the 50% deal? Then it would make sense... but saying that the cartel "needs his distribution network" would still be a strange/inaccurate way to describe the arrangement.
I'm pretty sure before Walt started cooking for Gus, he was distributing the cartel's drugs. He built the lab to produce meth independantly and Walt was his way of breaking out on his own. I think that's why it was so important for the lab to remain running because it was the only product Gus was distributing.
Hmm. Except when Saul referred Walt to Gus, the assumption was that Gus already worked with local suppliers. There's no evidence (as far as I know) that Walt was the first. When Walt talked about the quality of his product and Gus said "that is not the only consideration," the inference there is that Gus had experience working with suppliers, and that he valued suppliers that are cautious. Also when Victor started making pickups of Walt's product, it hardly seemed like a new thing for him.
You could be right, but I'm not aware of evidence for that, and there seems to be some vague evidence to the contrary.
I don't know... Was there any content about the cartel being specifically upset that Gus had found his own supplier? Because they would certainly be upset.
I had forgotten about the local supplier thing. It seems that the opening scene of this season with Gale building the lab sort of worked backwards on the plot a bit. If Gus had other drugs to sell, he would have no problem killing Walt and having the lab down for a short time, but it seemed very important that the lab not be down for even a few days. I think the writers left it vague because they hadn't quite filled in the gaps of everything Gus was doing before Gale and the lab came into the picture.
Yeah good points. I guess you could say that once Gus established his signature product (blue meth), he couldn't go back to old suppliers, whom he presumably cut off completely anyway.
When Gus took on Walter's high-volume operation, that had to replace someone's product. Who was it?
I feel like I'm missing or misremembering something.
Quote from: ©brad on September 13, 2011, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 12, 2011, 07:16:07 PM
Quote from: S.R. on September 12, 2011, 05:16:42 PMThe scene with Gus walking into the bullets with his arms stretched out like he was Jesus as the bullets were flying all around him was one of the silliest scenes this show has ever had. What the fuck was that?
I think it's less "you want a piece of me?" and more "okay fine, you win!" He knew the sniper wasn't going to kill him, because (as Mike points out later) they can't kill him. And the sniper was obviously aiming at the ground around Gus. As foreshadowed by Mike in the previous episode, Gus can't afford to have Hank and the cartel on him at the same time, so this was the last straw for Gus.
That part was all kinds of badass. I'll be the best friend for a day to whoever can gif that part for me.
I considered taking on your assignment, but it's actually kind of a long sequence with like 3-4 different important angles, and he doesn't put his hands up until the end. Maybe we can assign this to Polka.
Sooooooo gooooooooood!!!!!!!!!!!! :bravo:
Best. Episode. Ever.
Well, at least in the top 10.
The last time I was this excited after watching a Breaking Bad episode was after Box Cutter. I'm sure it's the same for a lot of people.
This is why I've been saying that a hyper-serialized show like this should be viewed and judged like one very long movie. You learn from the podcast that the show is mapped out brick-by-brick in a long, seemingly endless sequence, and in terms of plot, it's somewhat arbitrary where one episode ends and the next begins. The "slow" episodes that came before don't seem so wasteful anymore, do they? And we still have 3 episodes left of presumably hardcore plot goodness.
Gus was amazing in this episode. I'm finding myself rooting for him.
The character moments between Walt and Jr. were exceptional, too.
The editing when Jesse shoots is effing genius. (46:21)
E:
Random, irresponsible, predictions: If Gus dies, he will want Jesse to take his place. The Jesse vs. chemist scene seems like an obvious setup for that. What follows is Walt apologizing to Jesse (also set up in this episode) and trying to squirrel his way back in. Jesse lays down the law but realizes that he needs Walt, so they eventually become partners again. And I believe Mike will live, for sure.
This freakin show man I swear. I knew we'd be in for some great stuff this season but part of me didn't think Gilligan and co. could top the awesomeness of Half Measures. Well, I think they done did it with this one.
That ending! Good god I couldn't sit still during those last 10 minutes. Like Jeremy I am so rooting for Gus now, I really hope he makes it.
Cranston won himself another Emmy with that breakdown with Walt Jr. Also, Walt calling Walt Jr. "Jesse" might have been the most shocking thing of the night.
I loved when Jesse was taking those Mexican chemists to school, and how Gus and Mike looked on like proud parents.
But the most tragic part of the episode? The purple PT Cruiser. Poor Walt Jr. Hasn't this kid suffered enough?
Quote from: ©brad on September 19, 2011, 09:40:00 AMBut the most tragic part of the episode? The purple PT Cruiser. Poor Walt Jr. Hasn't this kid suffered enough?
I once drove a PT Cruiser as a rental car (not my choice). And yes, in case anyone wasn't aware, it's a horrible, horrible car. As if its appearance wasn't bad enough, it feels like it has a 2-cylinder engine. Even random things in the interior are cheap and falling apart.
But yes, this episode had the best of everything: superb character scenes and coldblooded plot developments.
Fresh Air had an excellent Breaking Bad double feature tonight... interviews with Aaron Paul and Vince Gilligan:
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=09-19-2011
Also the podcast for this episode is one of the best I've heard.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 19, 2011, 11:04:26 PM
Fresh Air had an excellent Breaking Bad double feature tonight... interviews with Aaron Paul and Vince Gilligan:
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=09-19-2011
Also the podcast for this episode is one of the best I've heard.
Damnit I'm having trouble downloading it again. Did you listen to it on the AMC site? It's not showing up on itunes.
It was working in both places yesterday. But yeah I originally listened to it on the AMC website.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 19, 2011, 02:21:20 AM
Best. Episode. Ever.
Well, at least in the top 10.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 19, 2011, 02:21:20 AM
This is why I've been saying that a hyper-serialized show like this should be viewed and judged like one very long movie.
It was fun seeing Jesse on the set of The Office delivering to Creed. Paul was also at the Sheen Roast.
It's still sinking in not only how great this episode was, but the enormous impact it has on where all the characters stand and how we think of them.
I think I'm officially no longer rooting for Walt. He's pathetic, whiny, and reckless. He will now have people killed without even considering the moral implications. Even with his mournful half-confession to Junior, I'm still not actually rooting for him. We can't help but have some empathy for him, because we know his story, but I'm still not rooting for him.
Vince Gilligan has said this before, but he said it especially clearly in last night's Fresh Air interview. They wanted to see if they could start the show with a protagonist and turn him into the antagonist by the end of the series. Mission almost accomplished, I'd say. This could be why they've made him so petty and dislikable this season.
I think Jesse has become the protagonist. I think the separation between the two might become permanent. I think the final season could be Jesse vs. Walt, and I think Walt will lose. I also think Walt might do something similar to the Jane incident that will get us to dislike him even more. This may be an irresponsible prediction, but it seems to be the logical path if Walt is to fully become the antagonist.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 14, 2011, 01:14:40 AM
Quote from: ©brad on September 13, 2011, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 12, 2011, 07:16:07 PM
Quote from: S.R. on September 12, 2011, 05:16:42 PMThe scene with Gus walking into the bullets with his arms stretched out like he was Jesus as the bullets were flying all around him was one of the silliest scenes this show has ever had. What the fuck was that?
I think it's less "you want a piece of me?" and more "okay fine, you win!" He knew the sniper wasn't going to kill him, because (as Mike points out later) they can't kill him. And the sniper was obviously aiming at the ground around Gus. As foreshadowed by Mike in the previous episode, Gus can't afford to have Hank and the cartel on him at the same time, so this was the last straw for Gus.
That part was all kinds of badass. I'll be the best friend for a day to whoever can gif that part for me.
I considered taking on your assignment, but it's actually kind of a long sequence with like 3-4 different important angles, and he doesn't put his hands up until the end. Maybe we can assign this to Polka.
Sorry to keep you all waiting.
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Nice!!
awesome gif
The problem with Gus is that Walt isn't aware that the cartel is afraid to kill him for some unknown reason. So now with the cartel leadership wiped out, if Walt manages to kill Gus, I'm thinking that's just the beginning of his problems. There's an unknown force that hasn't even revealed itself yet.
If there is "an unknown force that hasn't revealed itself yet," it's Jesse.
Walt's understanding of the situation is so juvenile at this point. I don't see a way out of this unprecedented weak position that he's in... but I guess it's possible.
Still wondering what will happen with Ted. I'll be watching to see if there's an episode next season called "I.K.T."
I started watching the show (Pilot) last Thursday (September 15th) and just finished the latest episode so I can be all caught up with you fine folks. Here's my token of thanks for pushing me towards it.
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lol.
hahaha, yes.
Wow, the last five minutes were intense! Walt is batshit crazy now. Skyler is so stupid. That audio at the end. The slow pull back from the crawlspace. The horror. It's surreal, a walking nightmare.
Am I missing something? Didn't Gus say he would kill Walt's family if he tried to interfere? So Walt had the option of keeping his life if he chose to let Hank die, but he completely disregarded it and started his lunacy as early as possible knowing he would absolutely be interfering? If that question makes any sense.
As of now, I'm having an extremely hard time rooting for Gus, but I'm not rooting for Walt, or his wife either. It's Jesse who I'm expecting to rise above both Gus and Walt -- he has matured greatly throughout the season.
Quote from: polkablues on September 20, 2011, 06:12:41 PM
Sorry to keep you all waiting.
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First off, you rock.
Second off, holy mother of christ. Those last 5 minutes were insane. I'm going to start banning any and every member of this board who has yet to start watching this show. It's on netflix now. Get the fuck on it.
Yeah. I don't know of a way to properly express my love for this episode, so I probably shouldn't even try. That last 10 minutes is some of the best filmmaking/televisionmaking I've ever seen.
And those last 3 minutes were absolutely mindblowing. Just surpassed Jane's death as my favorite BB scene. It was intense in a totally Lynchian way while being wholly original. Amazing stuff. As a bonus, we got some of the best acting I've seen from Anna Gunn (who alway steps up her game for intense scenes). The music there, with its pulsing electronic bass jolts, really makes it feel like everything is falling apart and anything could happen (reminds me of "Meltdown" from Requiem For A Dream, which actually would have worked over this sequence).
I'm especially impressed with the writers' ability to continuously surprise us. With two episodes left in the season, I'm sure there's plenty more where that came from. This is like a 4-part season finale. So exciting.
Quote from: O on September 25, 2011, 10:16:32 PM
Am I missing something? Didn't Gus say he would kill Walt's family if he tried to interfere? So Walt had the option of keeping his life if he chose to let Hank die, but he completely disregarded it and started his lunacy as early as possible knowing he would absolutely be interfering? If that question makes any sense.
I completely understand the question, and I was asking it myself. Unfortunately for Walter, it's entirely consistent. The logical thing would be to lie low, defer to Gus, and let him take care of Hank. But no. He immediately moves to tip off the DEA, which Gus will know with 100% certainty was Walt's doing. Walt has been making bad decisions all season, which is in keeping with the entire premise of the show. I have no reason to believe he won't continue down that path. (There I go predicting again.)
Quote from: O on September 25, 2011, 10:16:32 PMAs of now, I'm having an extremely hard time rooting for Gus, but I'm not rooting for Walt, or his wife either. It's Jesse who I'm expecting to rise above both Gus and Walt -- he has matured greatly throughout the season.
Yeah... I guess we're meant to stop rooting for Gus when he threatens Walt's "infant daughter." I'm certainly rooting for Hank, but that's a given. I'm half rooting for Jesse, but not so much anymore (for now). I've actually found myself rooting for Walt and his family again, though of course not without mixed feelings. That's what's so wonderfully complex about this show's positioning of protagonists and antagonists.
And finally, here's yet another insightful quote from the AV Club (http://www.avclub.com/articles/crawl-space,62128/). It speaks to what I've been talking about:
"It's funny how Breaking Bad will take its time, episode after episode, carefully setting up dominoes, and then in an instant knock them all down with one impulsive swipe"
Oh... and I think I'm still sticking with this...
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 20, 2011, 06:01:20 PMI think Jesse has become the protagonist. I think the separation between the two might become permanent. I think the final season could be Jesse vs. Walt, and I think Walt will lose. I also think Walt might do something similar to the Jane incident that will get us to dislike him even more. This may be an irresponsible prediction, but it seems to be the logical path if Walt is to fully become the antagonist.
Gah, stop it! No more predicting. I am done. Stop me next time.
Great episode!
Spoilers
Really glad that they let the shit hit the fan. I assumed that Walt would call Sal before he could call the DEA and let them know about the hit on Hank, but that didn't happen and I'm so glad.
SHIT JUST GOT REAL.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 26, 2011, 12:52:04 AMAs a bonus, we got some of the best acting I've seen from Anna Gunn (who alway steps up her game for intense scenes). The music there, with its pulsing electronic bass jolts, really makes it feel like everything is falling apart and anything could happen (reminds me of "Meltdown" from Requiem For A Dream, which actually would have worked over this sequence).
When I saw Walt there laying on the ground, helpless and scrambling, his wife coming in and hearing that awful question -- seeing her face contort in such a way that it seemed she was going to vomit in shame, looking at Walt's face, in shock with disbelief, anger, and disappointment all at once, I was struck by how comedic it all is: Skyler, who estranged Walt for his lies and 'gambling', then gives the money that would presumably save their lives to Ted, the white collar criminal, the guy she cheated on Walt with, who died earlier the same way he lived -- moronically. And he definitely is dead, if the resemblance to this scene has anything to say about it (note the oranges): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY8yBhhZkwY
Here's less of my prediction and more of how I think some of this is shaping up. We're all speculating that Walt will at some point become the antagonist and someone else is supposed to take up as protagonist. All this, from some comment Gilligan made or something? I'm pretty sure these are all just assumptions, progress throughout this season and especially this episode, would [at least to me] lead me to believe that if that will be the case, it won't be now, not this season. It doesn't add up to justify that.
What I think's happened is pretty simple... all evidence presented through Walt's behavior this season, his loss of control, his pathetically self-absorbed view, was brought on by the fact that he is not dying, but now? He's dead. A corpse with coursing blood...
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Walter's coffin.... but that's what he always wanted after all, isn't it? To break bad. I'm thinking we're going to see Walt emerge as the thundering force he was earlier in the show -- that could turn iron into gold for his family. Jesse's role in this, I'm still not sure of. At first I thought he would stand up for Walt and pay for Walt's relocation, but I'm not entirely sure. All speculation, but I don't think Gustavo is going to get away with everything he's doing. I see him spiraling out of control in an extremely uncharacteristic way. Does anyone remember "I don't believe fear to be an effective motivator?" His professionalism? His privacy? Killing Hank, Hank's family, Walt, and Walt's family is one of the loudest things he could do. No discretion, certainly not his work ethic in earlier seasons. Doesn't seem to be the case now...
E: Responding to this (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=10592.msg308967#msg308967) on the last page.
Gus could be slipping up, or he may have simply become more vicious in the face of elevated threats. Remember, he pretty much scrapped his "I don't believe fear to be an effective motivator" at the very beginning of this season with Box Cutter.
Anyway, the problem with the protagonist/antagonist shift is that we can still kind of shift our allegiance (or if not allegiance, sympathy/pity) back to Walt, as I did in this episode. There are a full 18 episodes left in the series, so pretty much anything could happen. It leaves a lot of room for Walt's transformation to be complete.
Here's the full quote from Vince Gilligan. It's not just a random comment he made, it's a pretty clear statement of intent, and it's recent (from a 9/20/11 interview), so it should probably be taken seriously:
Terry Gross: Walt has really become a bad man. He's a killer. Once you accomplish that feat... did you have to figure out what's next: now what do I do?
Vince Gilligan: That's a very good question, and we have more 16 episodes in Season 5 in which to discover that. But this show very much was something of an experiment. And I thought it might be fun or interesting to try to play with the idea of a character who, you know, a more dynamic interpretation of that in which a character not only changes throughout the lifetime of the series, but that is sort of the desired point of the series, that the character starts off as a protagonist and gradually becomes the antagonist. I guess part of the answer to your question is how much darker can Walt get? Is his journey complete as of this point — his journey on that arc from good guy to bad guy? So... it's a tricky thing to answer.
Hmm, I see... Damn. I can't wait to see how this season is concluded, I'm losing my mind thinking about it :doh:
I don't understand why Vince Gilligan thinks the protagonist into antagonist arc is such a novel idea (I also dont' believe that that was always his intention for the show, but thats just me). I wish he would take a page out of David Chase's book and just let the material speak for itself. I don't want to have any idea whats going to happen. And jesus christ am I sick of reading "Mr Chips becomes Scarface".
Having said that... what a great episode last nights was. Unbelievable.
Watched it again and the rug trip earlier was a nice touch.
The last shot looked weird technically. I guess they constructed the set just for this because the structure is shaking like hell on the way up (or they have a temporary roof for shots looking up at the ceiling). It looked like Walt and the hole was superimposed as the distance didn't seem right. Then again, I don't know anything about lenses so I could be wrong.
At the end of the day Gus doesn't care that they wouldn't even have the blue without Walt's recipe. I would think Walt would bring this up when his life is threatened, but that point may have been gone over in prior eps and I don't remember (since I have not revisited any episodes) or he figures it would be a useless point with someone like Gus.
I wonder if Jesse sticking up for Mike with the medics is foreshadowing a Mike/Jesse against Gus situation.
To be clear... a Jesse or Gale cook is 96% pure, and a Walt cook is 99% pure. That's the difference... they would all be blue because of the chemical they're using. But yes, despite having been convinced by Gale at one point that the difference between 96% and 99% is actually massive, it appears that Gus doesn't care... and probably hasn't cared since the end of Season 3.
As he said in his first meeting with Walt, "that is not the only consideration."
Quote from: O on September 26, 2011, 06:19:27 AM(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpIuP0.png&hash=98d9fc97115f4c24afbaa0c9c38ab7b317807679)
Walter's coffin.
From the podcast: "The idea was supposed to be he was lying in a tomb."
They also say Ted's fate is definitely meant to be ambiguous.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 26, 2011, 12:52:04 AM
That last 10 minutes is some of the best filmmaking/televisionmaking I've ever seen.
that was some intense shit, I cant predict anything, I truly have no idea how they are going to handle the last two eps...and we have one more season to go.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 26, 2011, 12:52:04 AM
It was intense in a totally Lynchian way while being wholly original. Amazing stuff..
totally, and the music/sounds they use feel as well..
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 26, 2011, 12:52:04 AM
This is like a 4-part season finale. So exciting.
so true, cant wait for every damn thing to collapse right in front of our eyes...
Spoilers
Quote from: O on September 25, 2011, 10:16:32 PM
Am I missing something? Didn't Gus say he would kill Walt's family if he tried to interfere? So Walt had the option of keeping his life if he chose to let Hank die, but he completely disregarded it and started his lunacy as early as possible knowing he would absolutely be interfering? If that question makes any sense.
If Gus hadn't said he was going to 'take care' of Hank, Walt would have definitely laid low, gotten out, etc. Walt said he was handling the Hank situation, and he was, the best he could, but now Hank even knows where their lab is. Walt doesn't want Hank killed. The only option he has is to tip of the DEA about the hit on Hank and then call Saul's dude to get him and his family new identities and lives. But Skylar kind of ruined that. I hope Walt kicks her boobs off.
Between the camera move and the sound design, that final shot was the most Gaspar Nöe-ian thing I've ever seen on television.
Quote from: polkablues on September 26, 2011, 06:15:22 PM
Between the camera move and the sound design, that final shot was the most Gaspar Nöe-ian thing I've ever seen on television.
straight out of Enter The Void...down to the play with the overhead bulb.
this is shakespeare.
"Why dost thou laugh? it fits not with this hour."
"Why, I have not another tear to shed."
the scream and the laugh murdered my heart. i've actually never experienced such a feeling of dread and disaster from any form of media before.
ted's scene was phenomenal.
gotta be the best final moment to an episode theyve done. chillings. if you told me this was the final season i'd believe it.
I think it would be interesting to have a full list of X-Files alums who have worked on Breaking Bad. Maybe someone has already made a list like this. I'm just going by memory from what has been said in the podcasts.
Vince Gilligan
Jon Shiban (writer)
Tom Schnauz (writer)
Michelle MacLaren (producer, director)
Aaron Paul (was in one X-Files episode)
They've mentioned some lesser crew members, but I forget the names (or they weren't named).
Can anyone add some names?
Don't forget Bryan Cranston! He was in one episode. A small role I believe, but that's how he and Vince originally met.
I'd just like to sidebar and say Michelle MacLauren is my favorite Breaking Bad director. Her episodes include Salud, Shotgun (with all those awesome time-lapse sequences), Thirty-Eight Snub, and probably one of the best hours of television ever, last season's One Minute.
Yeah, I think I agree. She seems to really hold the show together. Always has something interesting to say on the podcast, too.
I've also been thinking about which editor I prefer. It's hard because they're both great. The editing in both Salud and Crawl Space was superb. I might give the edge to Kelley Dixon.
Quote from: ddiggler on September 21, 2011, 12:13:26 PM
There's an unknown force that hasn't even revealed itself yet.
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edit/spoiler: walt poisoned brock!!!
Another great one. After that peak of intensity last week, they somehow managed to begin with a credible slow burn and build to another climax.
And we're back to rooting for Walt, which is interesting. He's even expressing regret. The same thing kind of happened at the beginning of Season 3, but of course Heisenberg returned when he was needed. Maybe his transition to "antagonist" is a "two steps forward and one step back" kind of thing. Since he's becoming too likable, perhaps even in the season finale next week Walt will be forced to make a Heisenberg-style decision not unlike the end of Season 3. (There's my reckless prediction of the week.) Or are we waiting for Walt (full Heisenberg), Jesse, and Mike to take the reigns of Gus's operation next season?
My only complaint about the episode is the "go ahead and shoot me" bit between Jesse and Walt (that part of the scene in particular). Too cliche for this show. And there must have been a better way to resolve that moment. OMG is he going to shoot the central character? Of course he's not, because he's the central character, and I've seen this scene 73 times before. It was bad. I could be nitpicking, but that broke the moment for me. Cranston's acting in that scene, however, was amazing. It just should have ended differently.
That said, it's quite brilliant how the writers were able to flip Jesse back to Walt. Again, a massive plot move executed in a completely credible way. Notice once again how absolutely none of the plot and character development throughout the season is going to waste. They're cashing in on all of it. (In this case, Jesse's weak spot for children and his relationship with Brock.)
Absolutely loved that last scene with Gus and Walt. Such beautiful tension. I half expected their eyes to meet (in binocular view of course), and then an "I'll get you" scowl from Gus (with a drama sting of course) to end the episode.
Also, Giancarlo Esposito's acting in that final scene is some of his best ever. Watch how much he says with only his eyes. Pretty amazing.
He's also quite chilling in that chapel scene with Jesse.
I really like how BB can take its time even in the most intense episodes. This episode had its share of delicious slow scenes:
- Walt by the pool, thinking and spinning the gun
- Jesse in his car on the roadside, silently brooding about his future
- The brief Skylar smoking / Jesse on his couch sequence (great music there)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW921asea2g
Promo of the season finale. Semi-spoilers, but for those who can't help themselves, help yourselves.
I will resist. I am strong.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 03, 2011, 01:04:47 AM
My only complaint about the episode is the "go ahead and shoot me" bit between Jesse and Walt (that part of the scene in particular). Too cliche for this show. And there must have been a better way to resolve that moment. OMG is he going to shoot the central character? Of course he's not, because he's the central character, and I've seen this scene 73 times before. It was bad. I could be nitpicking, but that broke the moment for me. Cranston's acting in that scene, however, was amazing. It just should have ended differently.
Totally agree. The imprint of the gun into Walt's flesh was a nice touch tough. I enjoyed the episode, but it wasn't as good as last week's.
So what do we think. Did Walt poison Brock to get Jesse on his side to kill Gus or vice-versa? Honestly I'm not really liking this Brock poison plot point but I'm going to reserve final judgement until next week. It just seems so convoluted for either Gus or Walt to have done it. Does Walt really have the will and means to knock off an innocent
kid? Especially after his own have just been threatened.
There's no way Walt did it. I believe he was telling the truth in that standoff scene.
I also think his theory about Gus's chess game was correct (as the final scene sort of corroborates). As petulant and insensitive as he's been, Walt has always been right about Gus's plans.
Keep in mind that Gus/Tyrus didn't need to poison Brock with that ricin cigarette. They only had to lift it from Jesse and poison Brock with something. Let's reserve judgement on this subplot until it's done playing out, but yes, for now I believe it was definitely Gus.
It's also sort of perfect because Mike is out of the mix, and he probably wouldn't have consented to that. He has grandkids and like Jesse seems to be a somewhat decent person. (Does this set the stage for Mike helping Walt and Jesse defeat Gus? Probably not, but that would be fun.)
I keep reloading the page waiting for the podcast to be uploaded. (http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/insider-podcast-season-4) I feel pathetic.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 03, 2011, 12:17:54 PM
I keep reloading the page waiting for the podcast to be uploaded. (http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/insider-podcast-season-4) I feel pathetic.
I've been doing the same thing if it makes you feel any better.
I agree Walt couldn't have poisoned the kid after thinking about it. Either this was Gus' "appropriate response" or maybe the kid just stole one of Jesse's cigarettes when Jesse wasn't looking and it's all a bizarre tragedy of errors. Oh who am I kidding I have no idea what's going on.
Kinda disappointed in that episode (and this whole season in general).
Having Andrea and Brock be such a big part of the end of this season is kind of a bummer. The really offer nothing other than to try and paint Jesse as being human and a sympathetic character, and him still siding with Walt already does that. I really hate this whole poisoning subplot. It's mad silly.
Hopefully the finale is really, really good. I'm looking forward to it.
I don't mind the poisoning subplot at all. It's hardly a new thing in BB. Poisoning has been a strong thread in the show since Tuco, and technically since Walt gassed the two guys in the pilot. It's been on all the character's minds this season. And it has the obvious figurative meaning for what's been happening to Walt as a human being all along. Poison and BB go hand-in-hand.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 03, 2011, 01:48:25 PM
I don't mind the poisoning subplot at all. It's hardly a new thing in BB. Poisoning has been a strong thread in the show since Tuco, and technically since Walt gassed the two guys in the pilot. It's been on all the character's minds this season. And it had the obvious figurative meaning for what's been happening to Walt as a human being all along. Poison and BB go hand-in-hand.
I don't have a problem with poisoning either. I just have a problem with that little kid getting poisoned. That's silly.
It's a bit of an extreme measure, but in this four-part finale of extreme measures, it's meant to be. It's pretty much designed to get at Jesse. I see it as a function of Gus's cold-bloodedness and the extremeness of the circumstances, so it totally works for me.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 03, 2011, 01:24:57 AM
- The brief Skylar smoking
Did anyone think she was going to get killed by a sniper?
That is definitely a hole in the protection.
How would Gus even be aware of the cigarette? I'm thinking there has to be some twist to the origin of this unless I am forgetting some scene.
While watching, I was trying to think if there is any way that some how it could turn out that Hank was actually in with Gus. They like big surprises, so that would be a big one.
Couldn't the kid have just tried to smoke a cigarette? Kids do that.
Quote from: Tictacbk on October 03, 2011, 02:14:44 PM
Couldn't the kid have just tried to smoke a cigarette? Kids do that.
That's what I thought when it first happened before the commercial break was over.
Quote from: O on October 03, 2011, 02:35:48 PM
Quote from: Tictacbk on October 03, 2011, 02:14:44 PM
Couldn't the kid have just tried to smoke a cigarette? Kids do that.
That's what I thought when it first happened before the commercial break was over.
That's possible, but it would mean Walt is totally wrong about Gus's chess game. (And I think he's right.) Also, the ricin doesn't take effect that quickly. And Jesse knows when he last had the ricin cigarette. It's more likely that Tyrus lifted Jesse's ricin cigarette and Gus had the kid poisoned with different ricin or something else entirely. (We may not find out.)
Anyway, wow, fascinating podcast.
The writer of this episode (though not complaining) had no idea where the "just shoot me, do it, etc." part came from. Vince Gilligan also wasn't sure. Aaron Paul revealed that Bryan Cranston came up with that (as well as the mizzle imprint thing). As much as I love Cranston, they should have kept the original version. Bad Cranston!
Also, that whole scene was apparently very very thinly planned by the writers as a group, so it was left to one writer (Tom Schnauz) to write that scene. Probably explains why it wasn't quite up to BB standards in terms of the excessive cliche.
Vince Gilligan's thoughts on shooting that scene, which took a whole day:
That was the hardest day of directing I've ever had. The whole day long... this is just not working... something was telling me I'm failing here, I am not giving these guys what they need, this is not working right, this is not as it should be. And looking back on it, I'm not sure what I was freaking out about.
He says he basically had a "panic attack" (his words) because he was so unsure of what to do with the scene, and he basically handed it off to the actors, had them try it a few different ways, etc. Most of the scene was great, but Vince's instincts were correct that it wasn't quite right.
Retrospectively, it's an incredibly complex scene to do correctly. I would've suggested taking a day or two more with that scene alone to get that perfect blend right.
Yeah. They actually originally planned to devote half a day to that scene. That's kind of the way it works on their schedule, because they are given only 8 days to shoot each episode. They took the whole day for that scene and in exchange dumped another scene that probably would have been omitted from the final cut anyway.
Vince is a good director, but I gather that he's not the most experienced television director in terms of efficiency. At least compared to BB's other directors.
awesome episode.
more than the shoot me scene being cliched, I'd worry more about some holes in it, like taking out Gus in the hospital's parking garage. The hospital most have cameras all over the place and it would be rather easy to connect Jesse with them, I mean, if I were Jesse id thought of that, of course, I understand that at that moment they probably didn't find a better shot at them than this one or didn't think of the consequences. Fortunately for me, I never think about that stuff while watching, not even the cliched shoot me scene put me out of the episode, that way I'm always immersed in it.
thanks to JB now I'm listening the podcast. Aaron Paul's T-Shirt story was great, he starts talking around the 35min mark.
that or keep a goon posted at the car.
but still, great episode.
Why would "Gus the citizen" need a goon posted at his car? That'd blow his cover of "hiding in plain sight."
BB has had some minor plot holes, but I would rank this below the champagne incident and the ambiguous business workings between Gus and the cartel.
It's not really a plot hole, just a logistical weakness. Walt's plan was weak, of course, because he's emotional and had very little time (note that he had to be satisfied with the imperfect detonator). We can't assume he didn't take precautions planting the IED, because we didn't see it.
Also, I'm having second thoughts about my disapproval of the "just shoot me" scene. It is a horrible cliche, but it's 100% true to both characters. Walt is vaguely suicidal (see the gun spinning scene), so he would definitely take a risk. Jesse is angry but not actually homicidal, because he's not a killer at heart, and he has some subconscious understanding of the truth. So, really no problems with the scene except that it's been done a million times before.
Credit cbrad for the podcast... I somehow didn't know about it before he mentioned it here.
Quote from: ono on October 03, 2011, 07:50:08 PM
Why would "Gus the citizen" need a goon posted at his car? That'd blow his cover of "hiding in plain sight."
but it would solve the "oh shit should i get in my car because it might blow up... here let me look at the view and think about it."
The 'citizen' also brought two said goons in the hospital where he would be seen with them.
Yes, but having someone actually guard his car is more goonish. (Though I guess they could wait in the passenger seat.)
However, I will agree that his goons do look a little too goon-like to be trotting around in public. Tyrus could lose the leather jacket and perhaps not walk around like he's going to eff someone up.
After the ending of last week's i was pretty disappointed with this week's. I kept saying to myself out loud "Oh shit." when jesse started sifting through his cigarettes and not finding the ricen. I was saying "Oh shit" because immediately i thought "oh man the kid stole one of his cigarettes" which i thought would make jesse upset at walt for even making him put it there in the first place.
But what happens after that, i mean come on? Convolution indeed. But not in a good Double Indemnity way. In a bad writing way.
I was riding high from last week all through the episode but while the last 10 or so minutes of last week's was some of the best tv i've ever seen. This week's last 10min was lazy and sloppy.
one more episode, pretty shitty time to start turning silly and cliched
Quote from: squints on October 04, 2011, 02:55:17 AMThis week's last 10min was lazy and sloppy.
Invalidated.
Really? The scene with Gus figuring things out in the garage was the opposite of lazy and sloppy. It was elegant and intense. Like I was saying, the sheer volume communicated by Giancarlo Esposito in that scene only with his eyes was pretty amazing. It was also the opposite of cliche. (In a cliche version of this scene, Gus would have gotten in the car or would have spotted Walt.)
it was borderline cliche. pretty sure they had the glasses up on Walt's head for sunglare to give away his position but decided to cut that shot out. but yes, the scene served great intensiveness.
Quote from: squints on October 04, 2011, 02:55:17 AM
In a bad writing way.
you wanna see real bad writing ways on tv check out Dexter's season opener.
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 12:02:13 PMpretty sure they had the glasses up on Walt's head for sunglare to give away his position but decided to cut that shot out.
No.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 04, 2011, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 12:02:13 PMpretty sure they had the glasses up on Walt's head for sunglare to give away his position but decided to cut that shot out.
No.
He knows this because he listens to the podcast that explains everything...instead of leaving the content to speak for itself and be interpreted/discussed.
Quote from: Tictacbk on October 04, 2011, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 04, 2011, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 12:02:13 PMpretty sure they had the glasses up on Walt's head for sunglare to give away his position but decided to cut that shot out.
No.
He knows this because he listens to the podcast that explains everything...instead of leaving the content to speak for itself and be interpreted/discussed.
I have honestly no clue why they do that podcast, artistically -- nor why anyone would listen until the season finishes. Especially JB, has been a champ when it comes to resisting spoiler temptation, listening to the podcast is in the same league, more or less.
McCarthy puts it well: "Well,
I don't think it's good for your head if you spend a lot of time thiking about how to write a book, you shouldn't be talking about it. you probably should be doing it."
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 04, 2011, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 12:02:13 PMpretty sure they had the glasses up on Walt's head for sunglare to give away his position but decided to cut that shot out.
No.
um, yes, Jeremy Blackman. and squints' comments are more validated than yours, FYI. some lazy writing in the last 10mins.
Quote from: Tictacbk on October 04, 2011, 12:34:42 PM
He knows this because he listens to the podcast that explains everything...instead of leaving the content to speak for itself and be interpreted/discussed.
um, no, twitacbk. never listened to the f-ing podcast that f-ing explains everything like perhaps you did. it's how the scene spoke for itself.
Incidentally, all those assumptions you guys just made about the podcast are false.
They religiously avoid spoilers. And in retrospect, if one of the participants even gets close to giving away a spoiler, Vince will purposefully jump in to obfuscate it.
It's not essential at all to enjoying or understanding the show. It's an optional supplement. It's 90% behind-the-scenes discussion.
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 04, 2011, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 12:02:13 PMpretty sure they had the glasses up on Walt's head for sun glare to give away his position but decided to cut that shot out.
No.
um, yes, Jeremy Blackman.
In your imaginary version of Breaking Bad, yes, perhaps they did shoot a scene where Walt's glasses produced a sun glare so Gus would see him, then decided to cut it out later. (What did they shoot after that? A chase scene between Gus and Walt?) The specificity of your insight is striking. Did you hear this on an imaginary version of the podcast? In the actual Breaking Bad that exists in, you know,
actual reality, no, they did not do that.
I've found a lot of things really corny about this season. It's turning more into a regular crime drama/suspense show instead of a realistic portrayal of people like it used to be.
It used to be about this chemistry teacher and one of his bad students who cook meth because the teacher has cancer and needs to provide for his family before he dies, but when was the last time this show even mentioned Walt's cancer? Him and the rest of the characters just don't feel very human anymore. What made Gus so bad ass was how genuine and real he was. He was a man with power hiding behind the front of a fried chicken restaurant. Now he's dodging and walking straight into bullets yelling "SHOOT ME!" with his arms spread, he's poisoning himself and others, but making it out just in time because he has his own mobile hospital to take care of him, then he's off to do more movie drug type shit. And the dynamic between Skylar and Walt used to be interesting because that was his wife and the mother of his new daughter and it was always harrowing whether she would find out the truth or not, but now that she knows the truth, she's all like, "I WANT IN." Get outta here.
It's still a fun show and the filmmaking techniques are usually pretty good, but it's just gotten to be pretty silly with some of the stuff it does.
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 12:02:13 PM
you wanna see real bad writing ways on tv check out Dexter's season opener.
I have always always always said "Fuck Dexter." That show is ridiculous. Granted, I've only watched disc 1 season 1, but here's how i felt about that. By the last episode on the disc the show had slowly started turning into this police procedural set in miami, and i had just finished the wire and i was having fun watching Burn Notice's miami. So GTFO Dexter.
You know what I think is some good writing? (Although i'm only on Ep 4)... Game of Thrones. I know the show is based on a book which i've read a bit of but they change most of the dialog from the book to the screen and the structure of the scenes are different. But that show, man, the acting, direction, cinematography, special effects, the plot...all great. I guess this is a discussion for another thread.
One more episode.
Quote from: S.R. on October 04, 2011, 01:58:27 PMAnd the dynamic between Skylar and Walt used to be interesting because that was his wife and the mother of his new daughter and it was always harrowing whether she would find out the truth or not, but now that she knows the truth, she's all like, "I WANT IN." Get outta here.
Except she doesn't know nearly everything. The tension between what Walt knows, what Skyler knows, what she
wants to know, to what extent she actually wants to participate... that is a far more interesting dynamic to me than her trying to figure things out, which was obviously unsustainable (she's not a stupid character) and only the very beginning of the story.
Quote from: S.R. on October 04, 2011, 01:58:27 PMbut when was the last time this show even mentioned Walt's cancer?
If you want to get technical, just a few episodes ago.
The prospect of his cancer coming back still looms over the story, but he obviously has more pressing matters to worry about. Do you really want Breaking Bad to be all about the threat of cancer? How tired would that get? I always thought one of best parts of the plot was how Walt figured he'd be dying very soon, but now he's in remission and is faced with all the consequences of his choices, which (in his spiral) he sort of has to keep making. That's so much more fascinating than some obscenely extended medical drama.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 04, 2011, 01:41:30 PM
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 04, 2011, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 12:02:13 PMpretty sure they had the glasses up on Walt's head for sun glare to give away his position but decided to cut that shot out.
No.
um, yes, Jeremy Blackman.
In your imaginary version of Breaking Bad, yes, perhaps they did shoot a scene where Walt's glasses produced a sun glare so Gus would see him, then decided to cut it out later. (What did they shoot after that? A chase scene between Gus and Walt?) The specificity of your insight is striking. Did you hear this on an imaginary version of the podcast? In the actual Breaking Bad that exists in, you know, actual reality, no, they did not do that.
but it did happen, Jeremy Blackman.
no need to get all Jeremy Blackman on me by the way. patting yourself on the back with that one? it was simply a remark on this one's cliched moments. "pretty sure" is what i said, YES they probably didnt actually shoot it that way but wouldnt have been surprised if that moment DID HAPPEN with Gus' suspicions, looking out across the way all clichedlike.
So the better question is, why are you imagining cliches into your viewing experience?
no.
Checkmate.
lol, omg, you're a giant dork. haha.
Gus didn't see Walt. He realized after his interaction with Jesse that his plan wasn't going exactly as he intended, and as he was approaching the car, he started to work out the possible implications of that, which he realized included Jesse and Walt working together to take him out. The scene was about how careful and analytical Gus is, not how good his eyesight is.
And Dexter's not THAT bad. I mean, yeah, it's kind of bad, but it's fun, or whatever.
Quote from: Pozer on October 04, 2011, 01:29:24 PM
um, no, twitacbk. never listened to the f-ing podcast that f-ing explains everything like perhaps you did. it's how the scene spoke for itself.
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about Jeremy Blackman, known podcast listener and fan.
The podcast may be spoiler free, but it seems like they're willing to clarify things like character's motivations or other things that, in my opinion, should be left up for interpretation. It takes the fun out of things when you can be like "Hey do you think Gus is gay?" "Yeah he is. I heard it on the podcast." Thats not a great example, but you get the idea.
That being said, I hold nothing against anyone who listens to the podcast, I just don't think it should exist.
Also I agree that Gus as a character is becoming less and less believable.
...and I hope Mike comes back in a big way for the finale.
Everything that Stefen pointed out has been a long time coming. I don't know why anyone would be surprised that Skylar is involved in the dirty business. She was cooking books long ago. It's always been in her... the show is called "Breaking Bad", it's about people breaking bad.
Gus has always been badass and walking into bullets. For a while, he was less seen and they were slowly showing his true nature to us, but I always assumed he was the type of guy that had to get shot at. He's too high up to have never walked into gunfire before. We just see it more now because that's the side they want to show now (and the side I like seeing).
I don't get how these things are surprises.
^ Yes.
Quote from: Tictacbk on October 04, 2011, 03:41:32 PMThe podcast may be spoiler free, but it seems like they're willing to clarify things like character's motivations or other things that, in my opinion, should be left up for interpretation. It takes the fun out of things when you can be like "Hey do you think Gus is gay?" "Yeah he is. I heard it on the podcast." Thats not a great example, but you get the idea.
I totally understand what you're saying, and I usually have the same reservations. However, when one of these questions comes up, which is rarely, you might be surprised how often Vince Gilligan chimes in to say "eh it can still be open to interpretation," and I don't know how many times he's said he loves it when viewers come up with their own theories and interpretations, how much he respects that, etc. (and cbrad can back me up on this). He has also said repeatedly that he's always wanted this to be a "water cooler show."
The Gus being gay thing actually is a good example, because Kelley Dixon let slip that it was always their [official] understanding that Gus and his partner were gay (which I caught), but Vince immediately chimed in that it should probably be left open to interpretation. But you could tell that they all believed Gus is gay. I think that's the only time it happened so explicitly on the podcast.
When they talked about Jane's death, they all chimed in with different opinions on Walt's culpability (whether he "killed" her or committed "gross indifference" or something else). All the interpretations were considered valid.
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 04, 2011, 03:51:37 PM
Everything that Stefen pointed out has been a long time coming. I don't know why anyone would be surprised that Skylar is involved in the dirty business. She was cooking books long ago.
Naw. This show isn't THAT predictable.
I don't mean from day 1, but I was pretty sure a while ago that Skylar would eventually become involved with Walt's dealings. Once she started fixing books for Bossman Dick, it was clear that would be how she got involved with the Meth world.
1 more day! Freaking out here. Okay let's do a simple bet - does Gus live or die? I'm going to say die by the hands of someone unexpected, like Mike or freakin Skylar or something.
Freaking out!
That was my guess.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 03, 2011, 11:48:34 AMIt's also sort of perfect because Mike is out of the mix, and he probably wouldn't have consented to that [poisoning Brock]. He has grandkids and like Jesse seems to be a somewhat decent person. (Does this set the stage for Mike helping Walt and Jesse defeat Gus? Probably not, but that would be fun.)
I think Gus is done. But we have no idea how it will happen, really. Mike coming back and doing it directly sounds a bit cliche (and... expected?), and none of the cliche predictions I've made about the plot have come true.
Either way I think Mike would be involved in a post-Gus operation, though certainly not as the leader.
I like your Skyler idea. I can see her getting involved to save Walt. We've already seen that being set up... she's clearly worried about him and getting all contemplative.
As we learned in the garage scene, you can't just take Gus out, even with a solid plan. I think fate would have to conspire in some crazy unexpected way. Which would obviously fit the show.
My prediction: Brock pulls the trigger.
$10 donation to xixax says gus dies. any takers?
No permission to post spoilers. Don't read this if you're concerned. Speculative, but with good reason.
Acid to the face, or something similar. Napalm? Nah. http:// i.imgur.com/N4Ln8.jpg
The color used was #ECEDF3.
I made this little excerpt from the podcast. They briefly discuss 72teeth's infamous gramma. This clip is 3:44.
http://www.mediafire.com/?75nuv08u758fimi
:yabbse-smiley:
Series finale, we find out that Walter Jr. is Kaiser Soze. CALLING IT.
https://twitter.com/#!/MattMitovich/status/123148434046853120 (https://twitter.com/#!/MattMitovich/status/123148434046853120)
Tonight's episode runs 68 minutes !!! That's like 20 or 15 minutes more !!!
Quote from: polkablues? on October 09, 2011, 06:27:41 PM
Series finale, we find out that Walter Jr. is Kaiser Soze. CALLING IT.
second this
Jesus h Christ I'm freakin out so hard I can't even punctuate
This show has ruined sex and drugs and booze and mexican food and everything pleasurable and awesome in life for me. Nothing else compares.
That wasn't a season finale. That was a series finale. Unbefuckinglievable.
I'll give you that it was like a series finale...in that it was predictable and slightly disappointing.
It was a great finale. Loved everything about it. It did feel like a series finale so I wonder if that was intentional or not. Did they know they had another season when they made it?
I loved how everything played out. I was not predicting that Gus would basically get killed by his two biggest enemies at once...sort of. It was pretty perfect.
Yeah, I loved it. I think Gus earned his cartoonish last moment. I was watching it in the theater and the crowd went fucking nuts.
I don't think it felt like a series finale at all. It leaves me with a huge "what now?" feeling. There's so much left to cover. I hope they can do it in one season (or two half-seasons, whichever).
My girlfriend got food poisoning yesterday (still went to watch the finale, what a trooper) and when we were looking her symptoms up on WebMD, it said she might have Ricin Poisoning.
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 10, 2011, 11:25:46 AMI don't think it felt like a series finale at all.
You don't think so? Jesse and Walt basically got rid of all the people who could finger point and implement them. They successfully got Hank off their back. There is no evidence that they were ever in the business. They destroyed the lab and everything that was linked to them. They could easily retire and go back to their normal lives and nobody would ever know what they had been up to the last couple years. If they wanted, that sounds like a series finale to me. I'm glad it isn't, but I do wonder if they did that intentionally, not knowing if there would be another season. Breaking Bad Insiders, let us know if they say anything about that.
Mike
Quote from: S.R. on October 10, 2011, 01:54:57 PM
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 10, 2011, 11:25:46 AMI don't think it felt like a series finale at all.
You don't think so? Jesse and Walt basically got rid of all the people who could finger point and implement them. They successfully got Hank off their back. There is no evidence that they were ever in the business. They destroyed the lab and everything that was linked to them. They could easily retire and go back to their normal lives and nobody would ever know what they had been up to the last couple years. If they wanted, that sounds like a series finale to me. I'm glad it isn't, but I do wonder if they did that intentionally, not knowing if there would be another season. Breaking Bad Insiders, let us know if they say anything about that.
Yes they didn't know if they would be picked up for a 5th season so they planned the finale to also work as a series finale if need be. You can read about it here (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/vince-gilligan-of-breaking-bad-talks-about-ending-the-season-and-the-series/).
Quote from: ©brad on October 10, 2011, 02:12:19 PM
Quote from: S.R. on October 10, 2011, 01:54:57 PM
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 10, 2011, 11:25:46 AMI don't think it felt like a series finale at all.
You don't think so? Jesse and Walt basically got rid of all the people who could finger point and implement them. They successfully got Hank off their back. There is no evidence that they were ever in the business. They destroyed the lab and everything that was linked to them. They could easily retire and go back to their normal lives and nobody would ever know what they had been up to the last couple years. If they wanted, that sounds like a series finale to me. I'm glad it isn't, but I do wonder if they did that intentionally, not knowing if there would be another season. Breaking Bad Insiders, let us know if they say anything about that.
Yes they didn't know if they would be picked up for a 5th season so they planned the finale to also work as a series finale if need be. You can read about it here (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/vince-gilligan-of-breaking-bad-talks-about-ending-the-season-and-the-series/).
:yabbse-thumbup:
I can see how that works as a series finale, but I'm crazy glad it isn't. I would have felt cheated.
It feels like everything was a temporary solution to longer term trouble.
That was a great last episode. Walt, you evil mother fucker. It could work as the series finale because, well, he's completed his bad breaking cycle right? But i feel, if they had one more season they could drive the point home even more and it could end in beautiful perfect tragedy. But no more than one more season.
Who else, for a second, thought "Oh Shit! Gus made it out alive!" then... pan....GAH! HALF A FACE!
I thought the first few minutes of the episode had some really funny moments. Specifically thinking of when he calls his neighbor and walt goes "Yes, cats are.... listen listen."
"I won."
Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLO-OKO2KZM&feature=feedu) an inside look at "Face Off."
Also, I found this list of loose ends for the next season.
- Mike is recovering in Mexico. What will he do?
- The Cartel was afraid to kill Gus. Walt may find out why.
- Jesse is on tape with Gus somewhere in a mexican meth lab.
- Hanks' investigation was just flatly dead-ended.
- Skylar may finally realize just how deep Walt has gone.
- Ted is dead, but did anyone even tell Skylar yet?
- Walt has done enough bad things to Jesse to get killed if Jesse finds out.
- Two major drug networks have collapsed, Gus' and the Cartel's. The power vacuums will result in new players fighting for control, though they may not give a damn about Walt or Jesse at all. The entire Salamaca family is dead, as is Gus, so there is no one to come looking for blood from the Cartel.
For the next two seasons, my heart tells me Jesse will bond with Brock and whats-her-face more and more, settle into a more docile lifestyle while Walt will probably become more awful and all of the bad things he did to Jesse will start unraveling before the two clash.
Haven't read any of the recent posts in this thread... just wanted to say that us downloaders got screwed over last night. The episode wasn't uploaded until late late last night. So I have to wait until tonight. Bah.
In searching for a download I've already been accidentally exposed to a few spoilers, namely that Walt and Jesse team up with Saul, and there's apparently an image of Tyrus with a syringe. Bah. Also my sister called a couple days ago to tell me she saw an interview with Cranston, who he said the final image will "make you cringe" and that it zooms in on an object. Bah!
I hate spoilers.
the copy i got from BTjunkie was legit?
Quote from: O on October 09, 2011, 06:34:09 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/MattMitovich/status/123148434046853120 (https://twitter.com/#!/MattMitovich/status/123148434046853120)
Tonight's episode runs 68 minutes !!! That's like 20 or 15 minutes more !!!
this worked out, with commercials to be about an extra 5 min.
I usually avoid torrents, especially when they are too new to have enough reviews.
Well here's my review, THIS (http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Breaking-Bad-S04E13-Face-Off-HDTV-XviD-FQM/435800e058f6629a19b42458af4dea5f6b9e2ebe8e25) is legit.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 10, 2011, 04:25:49 PM
Haven't read any of the recent posts in this thread... just wanted to say that us downloaders got screwed over last night. The episode wasn't uploaded until late late last night. So I have to wait until tonight. Bah.
In searching for a download I've already been accidentally exposed to a few spoilers, namely that Walt and Jesse team up with Saul, and there's apparently an image of Tyrus with a syringe. Bah. Also my sister called a couple days ago to tell me she saw an interview with Cranston, who he said the final image will "make you cringe" and that it zooms in on an object. Bah!
I hate spoilers.
I KNOW. It's usually posted on rlslog.net 10-15 minutes after it airs, but last night it wasn't put up until 2am. I stayed away from Twitter, xixax and any other site that could have ruined it for me. I was livid.
Man, that phone call that ended the episode was just perfect. "I won"... flawless. That exchange between Skylar and Walt was so cathartic, too, for some reason. I couldn't help but rewatch the last 3 minutes twice after I finished the episode.
It was exceptionally well written (loved all of Saul's dialogue) and just wonderfully executed all around... it's obvious that everyone brought their A game to this episode. I think the whole thing was just about right. I was for some reason imagining that the showdown between Walt and Gus would be the climactic end of the episode, but it arrived just where it should have. The climax for me was the last 9 minutes. That was much more thrilling than Gus's death (which we knew was coming).
Gus's cartoonish death did kind of break the fourth wall for me. I guess I would have preferred to see his head rolling out the door or something like that (cartoonish, but still somewhat realistic). I did, however, absolutely love the way he died. Tio playing such a crucial role there was so perfect that I wonder why we didn't see it coming. Also, how fitting was that to end it all with the bell ringing? So perfect.
Thanks to my sister's ninja-spoiler, I did expect to see the zoom in on the plant at the end (which did indeed make me cringe), but it was still beautiful. In retrospect I have no idea why I doubted that Walt could have poisoned Brock.
I think Walt started getting serious at this chess game immediately after Jesse knocked some sense into him. So happy that he's back on top of things. It was agonizing to watch him floundering and pathetic for so much of this season.
Interesting that Vince teased that Mike could be the next villain. I'm not sure I totally buy that. Mike is the guy who's just doing his job. Walt and Jesse haven't particularly done anything to harm him except deprive him of a paycheck, which he can surely get elsewhere. That interview happened before Season 5 writing even started, so I'll take it with a grain of salt.
Isn't it more likely that what's left of the cartel (or some other cartel) would go after Walt and Jesse for the formula? Or something like that? Either way, I think we can assume that, although Walt has won this (long) battle, he'll get into more trouble fairly quickly. Maybe Jesse finds the plant. Anything could happen. I just hope they come up with something great, and I hope that Walt, now that he's gone full Heisenberg, goes even further.
Yeah, those are plenty of interesting loose ends. Here's another one: How much evidence did Gus leave behind, in his home, in his various buildings, and especially in his freaking laptop? We can't expect Hank to give up now, can we? Fring was all but implicated (in Hank's mind, and in reality) by this recent event. I'm sure Hank is eager to find survivors who may be connected. And remember he has the gimpmobile.
Whatever happens, I still think my "Jesse as protagonist vs. Walt as antagonist" final season theory could come to fruition. That would be spectacular.
I'd like to see more about the car wash. Seems like it should play a larger role in Season 5.
Looks like the podcast is up (http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/insider-podcast-season-4).
Podcast highlights:
Vince had the idea for the way Gus would die way back in Season 3. They wrote "DING BOOM" on a card and kept it around.
I know this is incredibly obvious by now, but Vince describes Gus's hatred for Hector as being "the chink in his armor." Every villain has a weakness. And they definitely meant to play a "long game" (as they call it) with the Gus/Hector story... which from the beginning was meant to lead to DING BOOM. Vince also confirmed that Gus used Walt and Hank to get the cousins killed, specifically to get them out of the way so he could kill Hector.
Quote from: squints on October 10, 2011, 04:04:21 PM
I thought the first few minutes of the episode had some really funny moments. Specifically thinking of when he calls his neighbor and walt goes "Yes, cats are.... listen listen."
That and when Saul's secretary was trying to bribe him, and Walt gets right up in her face like he's about to threaten her, then just grumbles, "I'll be right back," and dives back out the broken door. Plus him taking a ridiculous amount of time to figure out that she was asking for a bribe.
I also enjoyed this, from the bestweekever.tv recap:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2FJesse-Walt-Shake-Hands-1318226434.jpg&hash=6371c24d11f1a4f1dbe7fd2b96cca8b0d5f973b9)
EDIT: And here is a link to my favorite feature on AV Club, where the show creator analyzes their past season episode by episode: http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/)
Quote from: polkablues? on October 11, 2011, 12:17:23 AMEDIT: And here is a link to my favorite feature on AV Club, where the show creator analyzes their past season episode by episode: http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/)
I've been wanting to read that since yesterday. I might save it for a special occasion.
AV Club is the best.
Quote from: polkablues? on October 11, 2011, 12:17:23 AM
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2FJesse-Walt-Shake-Hands-1318226434.jpg&hash=6371c24d11f1a4f1dbe7fd2b96cca8b0d5f973b9)
He didn't even 'let' her OD, he just straight up killed her. Shoving her over in order to try and wake up Jesse and she begins to vomit and go all John Bonham on everybody.
Quote from: 72teeth on October 09, 2011, 04:40:24 PM
:yabbse-smiley:
this was my exact reaction when it ended.
Quote from: O on October 10, 2011, 04:10:28 PM
Also, I found this list of loose ends for the next season.
- Jesse is on tape with Gus somewhere in a mexican meth lab.
- Hanks' investigation was just flatly dead-ended.
1. not only that was filmed, Gus' lab was wired, as JB said, how much info/footage is on gus' laptop? too much.
2. when the DEA connect the dots of Gus and the fire in the laundry they will realize Hank was right all along, so my feeling is they probably will hire him back, if that isn't aloud because of how he was fired, then as an advisor or something.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 10, 2011, 10:13:55 PM
Man, that phone call that ended the episode was just perfect. "I won"... flawless. That exchange between Skylar and Walt was so cathartic, too, for some reason.
Totally, especially ''I won'', his delivery was amazing and so was skyler's holy shit face.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 10, 2011, 10:13:55 PM
Gus's cartoonish death did kind of break the fourth wall for me. I guess I would have preferred to see his head rolling out the door or something like that (cartoonish, but still somewhat realistic). I did, however, absolutely love the way he died. Tio playing such a crucial role there was so perfect that I wonder why we didn't see it coming. Also, how fitting was that to end it all with the bell ringing? So perfect.
agree on all counts again, gus walking out and fixing his tie was just too much and his face didn't looked realistic at all, BUT, I got over that pretty fast, and more so now that I found this cap from the 1st episode of this season:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy251%2Ffbv%2Ffaceoff.jpg&hash=77ac111a28e17be9adf63144e9c3b3e2c0526226)
I wonder how many clues can we find if we would re-watched the whole season again.
Another funny moment to me was when Walt is closing Hector's door at the hospital, his evil expression is priceless, it reminded me of the simpsons.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy251%2Ffbv%2Fvlcsnap-58844.png&hash=adefa1373a629f415337374e59538e21c630ba1b)
If they can keep the writing quality for the next 16 episodes this could be the best series of all time.
Vince Gilligan has said all along that the show will show us the transformation of Walter from "Mr. Chips to Scarface,", and boy has he done that so far.
edit:
part two is up.
http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-breaking-bads-4th,63113/1/
It goes all the way to Season 2.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1ZsKJ.jpg&hash=07bfda9f815ce60480d1a010d14ebc911e123538)
Brilliant!
The bear is a coincidence, though. Vince thought of the "face off" idea while working on Season 4. (Although you may have been joking.)
Love that picture of Walt through the door. So evil. He's enjoying this way too much.
of course, someone already did a gif of walt closing that door:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy251%2Ffbv%2Fwaltclosesdoor.gif&hash=58d206af9b41ca3add9064eec7da64d57166d510)
btw, the cap I posted above from the 1st episode is Gale Boetticher's apartment.
I was sort of bored with XIXAX overall, and just kept coming in to read this thread. Guess now I have almost no reason to come back until next year.
Can't wait to see what they do in the new season. Will Hank be back with a huge promotion? I wonder if they will continue digging into what happened with Gus and try to find other people involved. How quickly until Walt is cooking again? Perhaps Saul has an active role setting up the new operation. And perhaps the show goes back to Season 1 when they need to figure out how to move product. Only this time Walt is a badass. Should be fun!
It's entirely possible that Walt doesn't cook meth next season. But very unlikely that he doesn't get into trouble.
Some new unforeseen financial situation could make him desperate, but that seems a little contrived, especially since they have income from the car wash.
If Walt does cook meth next season, I will be skeptical, but I'm sure they could pull it off.
Something will come up with Ted, who's almost certainly still alive. That's all I'm willing to predict.
I feel like the main thrust of the final season is going to be Hank closing in on Walt. Also, at some point shit will hit the fan when Jesse somehow finds out about the double whammy of Walt letting what's-her-name OD and poisoning the kid. Things are not going to end well for Walter White, in my estimation.
i just hope it's not by walt spilling the beans while he's drugged/out of it for some reason like all the other times he's let things slip ("which phone?" calling jr. "jesse" a few episodes back, almost telling jesse about jane in 'fly'). those are great moments but it would be much more powerful if he confessed it while lucid or if jesse somehow found out himself.
edit: whoopz, "fly" not "bug"
Quote from: I Love a Magician on October 15, 2011, 12:39:46 AMi just hope it's not by walt spilling the beans while he's drugged/out of it for some reason like all the other times he's let things slip ("which phone?" calling jr. "jesse" a few episodes back, almost telling jesse about jane in 'bug'). those are great moments but it would be much more powerful if he confessed it while lucid or if jesse somehow found out himself.
Agree. But almost telling Jesse about Jane doesn't count, because "Fly" was a bad episode. I'm still trying to pretend it doesn't exist. (I hate to over-correct, but "Bug" was an actually good episode in Season 4.)
But yeah, I think they've clearly set up Hank for some even better action in Season 5. He deserves it, and I'm sure we'd all be rooting for him.
Walt will almost certainly come to a horrible end of some kind, perhaps from cancer. If there's one thing Vince Gilligan keeps preaching, it's that actions are supposed to have consequences in this show. Speaking of which, I wonder if Saul has something coming, and maybe even Mike. Jesse has already suffered plenty of consequences, so I'm again predicting that he's a main (if not
the main) Season 5 protagonist. Wouldn't it be messed up but perfect in a Breaking Bad sort of way if Jesse turned against Walter, then teamed up with Hank? What's possibly more interesting is how Mike will fit into all of this. I predict a season of very (intentionally) confusing and shifting alliances among the characters. A season of consequences.
Quote from: squints on August 10, 2011, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 10, 2011, 05:16:26 PM
Quote from: ©brad on August 10, 2011, 04:34:34 PMI read an interview with the guy who plays Mike and he said he spends a lot of time with Jesse this season.
Oh, interesting... maybe some unconventional rehab?
maybe mike turns jesse into a killing machine...
I am the only one on this board who has guessed something remotely correct.
i deserve a prize in the fantasy breaking bad league
Hey, I've guessed plenty of things correctly! Unfortunately that's mostly a result of the sheer volume of predictions I've made, most of which have been wrong.
I wouldn't call Jesse a killing machine; he's a tortured murderer. And Walter did that to him, not Mike. Any marksmanship skills he has are probably attributed to his video game playing. (Or did Mike promise to give him shooting lessons, which happened off-screen? I don't remember.) We can probably credit Mike (and I guess Gus) for getting Jesse off meth and pulling him out of his funk by making him feel valued. Mike and Gus are the heroes of that particular story.
wouldn't be logical that Walt to fully transform into scarface somehow tries to take over Gus distribution business? that's my prediction.
of course there's Mike, but maybe Jesse convinces him to join them or to spare Walt's life...
so many possibilities....
Quote from: Fernando on October 15, 2011, 03:16:03 PMwouldn't be logical that Walt [...] somehow tries to take over Gus distribution business? that's my prediction.
That's what I thought a while ago, but everything about the end of Season 4 suggests that both he and Jesse want to be done with it.
Something major will need to happen to cause Walt to cook meth again, if he does.
The destruction of the superlab and all that production does leave quite a vacuum, so I am curious to see what fills it. Is it possible that Mike tries to recover the operation?
The show's done a really good job of not backtracking or retreading much ground. I think the superlab is done.
Woops, by "it" I meant the operation. It may be totally decimated, but I bet Mike could put something together. I'm assuming he has all sorts of contacts and knows the thing inside and out.
Quote from: I Love a Magician on October 15, 2011, 12:39:46 AM
i just hope it's not by walt spilling the beans while he's drugged/out of it for some reason like all the other times he's let things slip ("which phone?" calling jr. "jesse" a few episodes back, almost telling jesse about jane in 'fly'). those are great moments but it would be much more powerful if he confessed it while lucid or if jesse somehow found out himself.
fear not, this comes straight from Vincent's mouth (AV Club interview):
QuoteWhat we don't want to ever have happen is the story moving forward just because of a big dopey lapse on one character's part. If we're going to have a character make a mistake, like Walt being prideful to Hank and thus making a tactical error, we want those moments to stem from fundamental character flaws that we've already established.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 15, 2011, 04:22:03 PM
Woops, by "it" I meant the operation. It may be totally decimated, but I bet Mike could put something together. I'm assuming he has all sorts of contacts and knows the thing inside and out.
totally agree, if Walt wants to take over he will need Mike for sure.
have you heard the closing
song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3yAx2uCoHs) of Face Off in its entirety? the lyrics are so fitting to who Walt is now.
Reign Over Me is on TV and I just saw Mike. Damn I miss this show already. Sunday night :doh:
Quote from: Kal on October 16, 2011, 06:57:12 PM
Reign Over Me is on TV and I just saw Mike. Damn I miss this show already. Sunday night :doh:
Yo, and I just saw Mike in
Buckaroo Banzai...sharing a scene with The Trinity Killer.
Consider this brain WRINKLED. The biggest wrinkle came when I realized I had actually committed to watching
Buckaroo Banzai.
And this too! There's no excuse now that it's on netflix... i must be apart of the final season with you guys. Must.
Quote from: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on October 18, 2011, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Kal on October 16, 2011, 06:57:12 PM
Reign Over Me is on TV and I just saw Mike. Damn I miss this show already. Sunday night :doh:
Yo, and I just saw Mike in Buckaroo Banzai...sharing a scene with The Trinity Killer.
Consider this brain WRINKLED. The biggest wrinkle came when I realized I had actually committed to watching Buckaroo Banzai.
The wheelchair man was in Tales From the Darkside: The Movie.
Thank you xixax for peep show and brealing bad and also for my general education.
Whenever i get lonely drunk like now i wish there was a way to relive the glorious mid 2000s of xixax. You know most talk abou the golden days of 4chan but we also really had something going here. Its done though, interne is dead
Breaking bad is fucking great though
One of Breaking Bad's science advisers was interviewed on NPR today. It was fairly interesting:
http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/201112234
Breaking Bad's Giancarlo Esposito lets the Internet ask him anything (http://www.avclub.com/articles/breaking-bads-giancarlo-esposito-lets-the-internet,67469/)
Thanks! I'll be occupied for the next few hours..
Quote from: Fernando on January 10, 2012, 06:04:04 PM
Breaking Bad's Giancarlo Esposito lets the Internet ask him anything (http://www.avclub.com/articles/breaking-bads-giancarlo-esposito-lets-the-internet,67469/)
Gus from Breaking Bad was Buggin' Out from Do the Right Thing?!
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F29.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lr0kn28tEj1qaq5x3o1_500.png&hash=d19d3cd66a89dbce7d03edb378dd90118941be1d)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftroll.me%2Fimages%2Fjackie-chan-whut%2Fjackie-chan-whut.jpg&hash=c57464e95cfb1c91d32ae1e3b6f4fe048a6b916f)
Yeah! and SherryBaby's intimidating as fuck Parole officer:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mattfind.com%2F12345673215-3-2-3_img%2Fmovie%2Fe%2Fu%2Fx%2Fsherrybaby_2006_1024x768_408251.jpg&hash=7498bbe80b4e463d68dbeb81357883590db41758)
This guys great.
He's like a lesser Gary Oldman. Brilliant but under-appreciated and under-appreciated.
and under-appreciated.
Also, that's redundant, too.
^ Seconded.
E: I am generally known for epic pagebreaks.
Imagine a better world in which this Breaking Bad RPG exists (http://www.avclub.com/articles/imagine-a-better-world-in-which-this-breaking-bad,68596/)
The Story of Breaking Bad told by it's prologues. Somebody strung together all the opening scenes of Breaking Bad.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/pressplay/sheila-omalley-breaking-bad (http://blogs.indiewire.com/pressplay/sheila-omalley-breaking-bad)
Keep in mind this is an actor on the show and not AMC themselves, but Bryan Cranston has stated on Twitter that Breaking Bad will be back starting in JULY.
https://twitter.com/#!/BryanCranston/status/176468630500941824 (https://twitter.com/#!/BryanCranston/status/176468630500941824)
Very nice! And it looks like there haven't been any conflicting reports or denials yet, so that looks likely. Sooner than I expected.
https://twitter.com/#!/aaronpaul_8/status/181101571369738240
Spoilers. A spec or the real deal? You decide.
http://redsharkinteractive.com/trkdlx17/nejtcnuk723/page1.html
I definitely can't bring myself to read spoilers, but Aaron Paul's tweet is really promising. Sounds like the writers are still on top of their game.
The show's greatest strength is the amount of time they spend in the writer's room, and how much effort goes into making things unconventional and unpredictable. (Just read this thread for a full list of our failed predictions.)
I need to get the first four seasons under my belt again so I can discuss this with you mofos. This will be the first season I follow along week to week, and I expect it to be the best TV viewing experience since I first saw 'The Corner'
Quote from: ono on March 17, 2012, 05:34:51 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/aaronpaul_8/status/181101571369738240
Spolier
I think he posted later that the opening prologue of the first episode is crazier than someone getting their head blown off referring to Gus' death. http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s166/breaking-bad/news/a372395/breaking-bad-season-five-will-air-in-july-says-aaron-paul.html (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s166/breaking-bad/news/a372395/breaking-bad-season-five-will-air-in-july-says-aaron-paul.html) That's the link that I saw about the tweet.
Quote from: ono on March 17, 2012, 05:34:51 PMSpoilers. A spec or the real deal? You decide.
http://redsharkinteractive.com/trkdlx17/nejtcnuk723/page1.html
There was a script floating around last year that was thought to be the first episode of season four but turned out to be a spec. The first give away is that it looks like a native file. I have a few actual BB script files and they're scanned from a hard copy. The writing is a dead give away. Although I only read the first couple of pages, it's really boring for the opening of the final season of a show that is anything but boring. Here I'll post the first few paragraphs of season 3 episode 1 of BB written by Gilligan and you can see how much the writing is different.
TEASER
BLUE SKY Fills frame.
A deep, polarizer blue with fluffy white clouds
(hopefully), it's the kind of sky planes sometimes fall from.
We TILT DOWN from it to find...
EXT. MEXICAN DESERT - DAY
This isn't a border town, but farther south. There's nothing
in the way of pavement or sidewalks -- just two red dirt
roads that cross in the middle of nowhere, littered on both
sides by old adobe and haphazard shanties.
It's too hot to do much of anything. A few scrawny chickens
hunt and peck. A few RESIDENTS brave the midday sun... but
we make out OTHERS in silhouette, sitting in the shade of
porches and such, minding their own business.
This town has a kind of Old West feel. It might put us in
mind of the opening to "The Wild Bunch." All is quiet. No
activity of note. Not until...
... An OLD MEXICAN MAN comes crawling on his belly.
What a face. If Fellini were alive and directing spaghetti
westerns, this is a face he'd cast. With skin tanned to the
hue of a well-oiled catcher's mitt and wrinkles deep enough
to hide M&Ms, this man is somewhere between seventy and three
hundred years old. Here he comes, making his way on knees
and elbows padded with a filthy swaddling of tied-on RAGS.
That's so evocative. Where might one find these Breaking Bad scripts?
Vince is a great scriptwriter. Jeremy you should read the pilot script it's easily available with a google search and most awesome.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on March 21, 2012, 04:29:58 PM
That's so evocative. Where might one find these Breaking Bad scripts?
http://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/ (http://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/)
This is where I find a lot of scripts for television shows. The guy keeps it updated and adds new tv scripts every few weeks or so. He mostly adds pilot scripts for the new shows of the season but ever so often adds a script for something like Breaking Bad. They're not the transcripts you find at other sites where a fan just transcribes a show. He has four Breaking Bad scripts including the pilot. Also has the pilot or more of shows like Dexter, Californication, Freaks and Geeks, The Walking Dead, Mad Men etc... Also has a few Lost scripts including the final two episodes.
He doesn't have any scripts for HBO shows. If you read the home page, I bet he did have some but was threatened with a lawsuit. I can see the litigious Time Warner having a problem with some guy posting their scripts. I do have some scripts for HBO shows. I have a few for Deadwood, pilot for Game of Thrones, and a few for the wire including the it's bible/pitch. I found all these online through google. I'm positive you could google Game of Thrones pilot to find it simple. Not sure how easy the others are since it's been a while since i've searched.
Excellent, thanks.
Ugh!
Bryan Cranston says Breaking Bad will split its final season in half
http://www.avclub.com/articles/bryan-cranston-says-breaking-bad-will-split-its-fi,72075/?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=feeds&utm_source=avclub_rss_daily
AMC has so far not made any official comment on the date of Breaking Bad's return or the plan for its final 16 episodes, but Bryan Cranston, mad with absolute Cranston, has once again gleefully gone rogue. "We're splitting it," Cranston tells Entertainment Weekly of the final season. "We're going to shoot the first eight, then take a four-month production break, then the rest will air next year." As reported earlier, Cranston already told the Twitter world that the show would debut its fifth season in July—an unofficial return date still, but a defiantly Cranstoned return date. The network will likely make a more definite announcement soon, though as of now it's less certain about Cranston's suggested four-month production break, calling it only "one scenario." But those earlier rumors regarding spreading out the final chapters of Breaking Bad seem to be all but confirmed now, which means Walter White will continue to wreak well-intentioned havoc through 2013.
This... was already known a long time ago. O_o
Quote from: ono on April 06, 2012, 10:03:14 PM
This... was already known a long time ago. O_o
Are you sure about that? Link or it didn't happen. Why would 9+ sources (http://news.google.com/news/story?hl=en&gl=us&q=breaking+bad+split&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dxujsL3R03beDBMCO4WMm8BreDcPM&ei=ILt_T53YJIbo0QHXtY2YCA&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CC0QqgIwAA) be reporting it today as breaking news?
Positive. This was a big deal last summer, maybe even before the 4th season had finished airing. I don't know where to go about finding links, but it's so silly that so many sources are reporting this old news as new. Here's at least one video from August 2011 that says so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiPVcu-ecdg
http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=10592.msg307824#msg307824 (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=10592.msg307824#msg307824)
Interesting. But that's more unconfirmed speculation than anything else, don't you think? Any major news outlet (even an entertainment news outlet) would be irresponsible to say a split is happening based on that rumor. And I seriously doubt AMC and the producers had actually made that decision in August of last year. It was probably one of several possibilities, which AMC is technically still saying.
Aaron Paul (who was wrong about a sixth season) doesn't have the "Cranston cred" (as the kids say). That's probably why it's being reported now. Plus, Cranston had significantly more details.
However, I did find this, from February:
http://www.deadline.com/2012/02/breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-signs-new-overall-deal-with-sony-pictures-tv/
Weird.
E: Sniped by Polka. That's hilarious... we were all so involved in the discussion that we ignored the details of Mac's post.
E2: Actually Mac's post only says "may be split into two seasons, with a final scheduling decision to be made at a later date." For some reason no one noticed the above-linked Deadline story.
^ Made like 15 edits. I guess I'm afraid of double posting.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on April 06, 2012, 11:42:19 PM
I guess I'm afraid of double posting.
Breaking Bad isn't though
I don't get it.
He's saying breaking bad is not afraid to split its content over two seasons unlike your fear of splitting info that could just as well go in one post.
One season equals one post.
It was a decent joke.
Nice little piece (http://nymag.com/arts/tv/upfronts/2012/aaron-paul-2012-5/) on Aaron Paul. This is the only tidbit on season 5, from Vince:
"He [Jesse] started off the show as the student, and he in many ways remains that well into season five," says Gilligan, hinting at what's to come."
AMC's 'Breaking Bad' To Premiere July 15
BY THE DEADLINE TEAM
AMC announced today its summer programming slate, including the highly anticipated premiere of the first part of "Breaking Bad's" final season on Sunday, July 15 at 10pm ET/PT. The final season of the Emmy® Award-winning and critically acclaimed drama, produced by Sony Pictures Television, consists of 16 episodes, with the first eight episodes beginning July 15 and culminating with the series' final eight episodes next summer 2013. Also this summer, the network debuts its newest unscripted series, "Small Town Security," on Sunday, July 15 at 11pm ET/PT and season two of the epic western "Hell on Wheels" Sunday, August 12 at 9pm ET/PT.
Over four seasons, "Breaking Bad" has garnered a total of six Emmys® wins; a Peabody Award; it has been named to the American Film Institute's (AFI) list of the "Top 10 Programs of the Year" (2008, 2010, 2011); and been heralded as one of the best TV dramas on television. Filmed on location in Albuquerque, NM, the series stars 2008, 2009 and 2010's Emmy® Award winner for Outstanding Lead Actor Bryan Cranston; 2010 Emmy® winner for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series Aaron Paul; Anna Gunn; Dean Norris; Betsy Brandt; RJ Mitte; Bob Odenkirk; and Jonathan Banks. "Breaking Bad" is produced by High Bridge and Gran Via Productions in association with Sony Pictures Television for AMC. "Breaking Bad" Season 4 will be available on Blu-ray and DVD on June 5.
Immediately following "Breaking Bad" is AMC's new unscripted series, "Small Town Security" (formerly "JJK Security"), which focuses on a small, family-owned private security company located in rural Georgia. Executive produced by Ken Druckerman and Banks Tarver from Left/Right ("This American Life," "Boomtown," "Mob Wives"), season one consists of eight, half-hour episodes.
The second season of "Hell on Wheels" continues its epic story of post-Civil War America, focusing on Cullen Bohannon (Anson Mount), a former Confederate soldier, and his dramatic journey west as he struggles to leave his past behind. Executive produced by John Shiban ("Breaking Bad," "The X-Files"), Joe and Tony Gayton (Faster, Uncommon Valor) and Endemol USA's Jeremy Gold, the show depicts the traveling town known as 'Hell on Wheels,' a dangerous, raucous, lawless melting pot that follows and services the construction of the first transcontinental railroad. "Hell on Wheels" also stars Common as Elam Ferguson; Colm Meaney as Thomas "Doc" Durant; Dominique McElligott as Lily Bell; Christopher Heyerdahl as The Swede; and Robin McLeavy as Eva; Tom Noonan as Reverend Cole; Ben Esler as Sean McGinnes; Philip Burke as Mickey McGinnes; and Eddie Spears as Joseph Black Moon. The series is executive produced by Endemol USA with Entertainment One (eOne) serving as the studio. Season two consists of 10, one-hour episodes.
They're going to make us wait a whole YEAR???? :yabbse-thumbdown:
Wow, okay, that's 2 more seasons, not one. Very short seasons.
Are we mad about this? Much of the internet seems to be bitching but I'm not ready to say goodbye to this show yet, so another mini-season come 2013 is fine with me.
Let's be realistic, a year is going to be tough.
I would be much happier with 2 more 16-episode seasons.
The show has never done a season beyond 13 episodes to my memory, but I get your point. AMC makes the oddest scheduling choices.
I guess they're relying on word of mouth to get the ratings up for the close. You have to watch the entire series to appreciate it, which takes time. If I remember correctly, the final season of The Wire was the only one I watched in real time.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffashioncopious.typepad.com%2F.a%2F6a00e54ef9645388340168ec125239970c-800wi&hash=c0401c60eff047a27cb4510e273e882b46e1d358)
Nice.
I assume that doesn't reflect an actual setting.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on June 04, 2012, 10:17:03 PM
I assume that doesn't reflect an actual setting.
why not? Looks like they moved right in and are ready to open up shop. Cranston is so gangsta. Crangsta..
Nice!
That looks to be about 15% new footage. Clever.
Indeed! I feel it's an ideal compromise between shows that reveal way too many sporadic clips from the first half of the season to the Matthew Weiner model of "you get nothing!"
The theme of the upcoming season seems to be "Walter is dominant." It's kind of what we've been wanting for his character all along. It will probably be massively satisfying with a significant twinge of guilt, exactly how last season ended. I'm hoping for even more layers of moral ambiguity.
There will of course be complications along his path, but I don't see him being subservient ever again. Their best opportunity with the character at this point is to let him corrupt himself with his dominance, and all the things he surely has to do to maintain it. This will inevitably refocus the moral pressures onto his family and probably put them in even greater danger.
That's OK but it's not very interesting.
What I'd like to see is having him be faced with the decision where he has to give it all up (right at the peak of his power) in order to retain a single speck of humanity. Or something.
this show is impossible to predict, but that seems like the toughest corner the show could write itself into.
Great trailer. Totally expected Walt to see the situation as an opportunity rather than his way out. but didn't expect that Jessie would still be up for it if i'm reading his "we're going to start cooking again?" comment as he is up for it.
I've seen the first two episodes of Season 5.
It's. So. Good.
Excellent!
All that time in the writer's room pays off. I still have no idea how Vince gets away with that.
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/07/02/breaking-bad-season-5-clip/
Spoiler:
Oh, and it looks like this woman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0292182/) will be playing one of Gus's associates. I don't know where or when, just something I saw in EW. Yeah, ew.
is Anna Gunn losing weight? I'm not sure if she was pregnant last season (in real life), but she definitely ballooned a bit and it looked weird with her plastic surgery...not that that did anything to sway from the show's integrity. Juuust a simple observation.
SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSBest promo yet. Interesting to see what you can make out as far as people/costumes when you pause at the proper times. Jesse stepping between Mike('s gun) and Walt? Whoa. Just for one.
[countdown=7,15,2012,22,0][/countdown]
A Brief History of Breaking Bad's Pink Teddy Bear Recurring Motif (http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2012/07/television-dramas-coolest-recurring-motif-breaking-bads-pink-teddy-bear/)
Nothing particularly new or mind-blowing (although I hadn't seen the mural on Jane's wall pointed out before), but it's cool to see it all laid out like this.
Quote from: Pubrick on June 28, 2012, 09:39:56 AM
That's OK but it's not very interesting.
What I'd like to see is having him be faced with the decision where he has to give it all up (right at the peak of his power) in order to retain a single speck of humanity. Or something.
this show is impossible to predict, but that seems like the toughest corner the show could write itself into.
Whoa I missed this. Does this mean you've been watching this? Are you all caught up? Are you obsessed like the rest of us freaks?
Yes yes yes and yes.
That's too many yeses but everything about this show is a yes for me.
This edges out GoT for best show of the PW era. (Post Wire)
This is a really great interview of Aaron Paul by GQ (http://www.gq.com/entertainment/celebrities/201208/aaron-paul-gq-breaking-bad-interview). By page 4, interestingly enough, he's waxing PTA's car. Not to mention the Nick Offerman interludes, his attempts to get into the SNL finale, rungs of success and what his career aspirations are. Well worth it.
Lemme fix the counter (it wasn't adjusting properly for time zones, I think):
Quote from: ono on July 09, 2012, 09:48:08 AM
[countdown=7,15,2012,19,0][/countdown]
Oh, yeah, that's the stuff! :yabbse-cool:
Gosh, don't forget about the countdown mod I installed! Click the little clock icon below "Font Size."
Quote from: ono on July 12, 2012, 11:20:11 AMBy page 4, interestingly enough, he's waxing PTA's car.
Here's that part:
GQ: The reaction to Drive was a little bizarre.Aaron Paul: It's so weird. So many people just didn't get it. It was my favorite movie last year. It really was. I remember looking at Bryan and saying, "You lucky bastard. What a great role." It's something he'd never done before. And then Gosling. My god. That's a kid that I've known forever.
GQ: You guys are about the same age, right?Aaron Paul: Yeah, right around the same. I just really look up to the choices he makes. I think he's an incredible talent and would love to work with him.
GQ: What other directors?Aaron Paul: Rian Johnson's fresh in mind. He's just so brilliant and such an incredible writer. Or speaking of writer-slash-directors: Paul Thomas Anderson.
GQ: Yeah, wow. I think he's the best there is.Aaron Paul: He's completely fucking unbelievable. I don't understand how he does it.
GQ: What's the plan after Breaking Bad wraps?Aaron Paul: Not an idea. Maybe start accosting Paul Thomas Anderson. Seriously: turn this interview into a love letter to Paul Thomas Anderson, and kind of beg him to put me in a film. I don't care if it's as an extra, I'll do whatever.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 12, 2012, 11:38:35 AM
Gosh, don't forget about the countdown mod I installed! Click the little clock icon below "Font Size."
I was using that. Edit my post? I was just noting how it was off by a few hours even though I entered the right premiere time.
I am shamed.
that countdown is cool.
haven't watched any promos, i'd love to of course but they spoil too much, instead to get in BB mood I watched Crawl Space again, the last 10 minutes still gave me chills.
Outside of any upcoming PTA joint, I don't think I've ever been as excited for a new movie or tv show as I am for this. I wish we all could watch together somehow.
We could do a chat like in the old days. There was also that time we watched PTA movies together. And others. I think we did some Tarantino stuff too.
Really great academic deconstruction of the show and it's grand themes. http://lareviewofbooks.org/article.php?type=&id=761&fulltext=1&media= (http://lareviewofbooks.org/article.php?type=&id=761&fulltext=1&media=)
Best paragraph:
QuoteWithin this quartet, Breaking Bad is most similar to The Wire, and indeed is its twin and mirror image. While The Wire explored how the drug trade decimated black urban America, Breaking Bad looks at how drugs infiltrate the other half: suburban white America. A unifying, coherent philosophy is possessed by each, and both execute it propulsively and faithfully. David Simon likened The Wire to a Greek tragedy, by which he meant that sociology is an omnipotent, merciless god that twirls with the fate of mortals. In Breaking Bad the villain is not sociology, but a human being; what destroys the mortals is not a system, but a fellow mortal. This is a human-centered vision of the origin of evil. It is Old Testament at its core.
Interesting. I'll have to read the whole thing when I get a chance.
What I find so fascinating about this story is that it follows one person who turns himself evil, and almost consciously. It's not some outside force or even bad luck (see: the charity he turns down) or another person, it's himself.
Spoilers, obviously. Best, most revealing trailer (http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/season-5-comic-con-trailer-breaking-bad) yet.
I can't bring myself to watch any of these.
Shhhhhh!
Comic-Con: Even Breaking Bad's Vince Gilligan No Longer Sympathizes With Walt (http://www.vulture.com/2012/07/breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-doesnt-sympathize-with-walt.html)
Walter White has arguably already done the irredeemable several times on Breaking Bad, but series creator Vince Gilligan says we still haven't seen the former chemistry teacher turned drug kingpin at his worst. Makes sense with sixteen episodes left to go. Gilligan told the Comic-Con crowd Friday that his own opinion of Walt changed dramatically only recently. "He does something this season that, as the first viewer of the show, I myself would probably say, 'I lose all sympathy,'" Gilligan said, taking care to separate the idea of Walt's "likability" from his "watchability." At one point, he even polled the audience: "How many of you guys think this guy's as bad as he's going to get?" When they cried back, "No!" Gilligan smiled. "He may get worse yet."
When we last left Walt, he had proclaimed his victory over Gus to Skylar ("I won"), and Gilligan said "winning" and its consequences is very much the theme for the fifth and final season. "Walt has found a new power, and it's his ego," said Bryan Cranston, who wore a hazmat suit onstage and was met with a standing ovation.
"Somebody said to me once, 'Is it possible for Breaking Bad to have a happy ending?' And I said, 'Have you been watching?' Perhaps the happy ending would be for him to die. He's become so toxic and cancerous, maybe that's the way it's supposed to go."
So...
Spoilers
Anyone expect Walt to meet Kate at the airport telling her they need to go back to the island? Now that stupid joke is out of the way lets get to the episode.
The prologue was a huge jump in time since the pilot was on Walt's 50th birthday and we have yet to reach his 51st in the present and the prologue takes place on his 52nd. The prologue was interesting but enjoyed the episode more. I liked how they tackled the obvious loose ends they left from the previous season. Berneke and Gus' cameras were all the obvious loose ends hanging over Walt that I could think of. The fact that they handled them both in the first episode lives up to a show that knows the viewers expectations and surpasses them by working with the obvious and surpassing them. Their approach was great too since it's been like the 2nd season we have seen Walt and Jessie use their wits to get out of a situation like this. It then opens up a show which is already unpredictable.
Finally, I have to say I love their use of extras and their callbacks. They remember the entire shows history unlike other shows. I like how they use extras like Jim Beaver and the salvage yard owner. They remember these characters and bring them back.
SPOILERSI have perhaps never been more eager to quote myself:
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 10, 2011, 10:13:55 PMYeah, those are plenty of interesting loose ends. Here's another one: How much evidence did Gus leave behind, in his home, in his various buildings, and especially in his freaking laptop?
Another quote of interest:
Quote from: Fernando on October 11, 2011, 10:42:37 AM
1. not only that was filmed, Gus' lab was wired, as JB said, how much info/footage is on gus' laptop? too much.
2. when the DEA connect the dots of Gus and the fire in the laundry they will realize Hank was right all along, so my feeling is they probably will hire him back, if that isn't aloud because of how he was fired, then as an advisor or something.
Someone also pointed out that Jesse is on tape teaching people how to cook meth in that Mexican warehouse, with Gus and Mike and at least some people who were found dead by the pool (like the Mexican Mike). What were there, like a dozen video cameras? That warehouse hasn't been burned down, and certainly no one's had the chance to cover those tracks. This may be too obscure to come into play, but I guess we'll see.
On to the episode.
I love how things worked out with Mike. When the writers are faced with one of these huge questions (in this case, what does Mike do), their solution is always so perfect for the show and makes so much sense. It's kind of a flawless expression of Mike's character the way he comes back into the fold. You get his "oh brother, you guys are idiots" thing and his "just doing my job" thing all in one package, with just the right amount of aggression and resentment mixed in, in light of recent events.
But especially... the way Mike was reunited with Walt & Jesse (the two cars speeding toward each other) was so bizarre that it was undeniably metaphorical. Great stuff.
Notable Heisenberg moments:
- "Because I say so."
- "We're done when I say we're done."
- Most threatening hug ever. *
* If you've seen a more threatening hug on screen, I challenge you to start a thread about most threatening hugs and put it there.
Is Ted simply scared into silence, or does he expect some kind of compensation? Seems like they're always paying someone's medical bills, so why not? But I'm leaning toward scared into silence.
Not totally sure what to think about the cold open. It's in the not-too-distant future. Walter appears to have plenty of money, but he is clearly in some trouble, looks a bit nervous, certainly less arrogant than he is in the present day. Significantly humbled, even downtrodden. But he could be making an offensive or defensive move, and we don't really know his position, so they could surprise us. It does prove that things are not going to be easy. In any case, it would be great if this turns out to be the climax of the show. Or if they have more flash forwards, and we have to put the pieces together.
Season 5 Plot Hole #1 - Gus would have needed at least one external hard drive were he actually recording all that footage.
And just for fun, here's a screenshot of the checking numbers. But don't get too excited, I've already used it to create a PayPal account.
(https://xixax.com/jb/cayman.png)
Quote from: Brando on July 16, 2012, 01:19:40 AMTheir approach was great too since it's been like the 2nd season we have seen Walt and Jessie use their wits to get out of a situation like this. It then opens up a show which is already unpredictable.
It's true, I did miss seeing Walt and Jesse trapped together in those kinds of scenarios. Like the scene where they were hiding from Hank in the RV. I'm sure there will be more of that.
MORE SPOILERSAs a followup... I always learn a few things after I read the AV Club review and/or the comments. Yes, the comments.
One commenter made this (http://www.avclub.com/articles/live-free-or-die,82286/#comment-588979502) astute observation:
I think Skyler might be a goner by the time the cold open takes place. Walt appears quite sullen, isn't wearing a wedding ring, and is recreating a moment that his wife created for him two years ago. And later in the episode, they made specific mention of his wedding ring being on his finger.
Also, this is Walt's new gun. Fully automatic.
(https://xixax.com/jb/M60.png)
OMG the podcast is up:
http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/insider-podcast-season-5
But as usual, not on iTunes quite yet.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 02:32:59 AM
MORE SPOILERS
As a followup... I always learn a few things after I read the AV Club review and/or the comments. Yes, the comments.
One commenter made this (http://www.avclub.com/articles/live-free-or-die,82286/#comment-588979502) astute observation:
I think Skyler might be a goner by the time the cold open takes place. Walt appears quite sullen, isn't wearing a wedding ring, and is recreating a moment that his wife created for him two years ago. And later in the episode, they made specific mention of his wedding ring being on his finger.
Holy shit! I didn't get that but it makes total sense. Wonder if Walt Jr. survives?
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 02:01:43 AMSeason 5 Plot Hole #1 - Gus would have needed at least one external hard drive were he actually recording all that footage.
Yeah thought the same thing. These writers are way too smart to not have an answer for that. The only thing I could think of was maybe it was set to record only the last 24 hours?
Other things I loved:
- "Yeah! Magnets!"
- Hank investigating the burned down lab was so surreal. Felt like the moon landing.
- "You know, I can envision a lot of possible outcomes to this thing, and not a one of them involves Miller Time."
- If the flash-forward taught us anything, the cancer is rearing its ugly head.
Amazing premiere. I can't wait to listen to the podcast.
"This is the universal sign for keys"
That was a brilliant little caper they worked out for them, and filled a few plot holes in the process. As great as the dramatic scenes are (creepiest hug ever), I love that the show still knows how to have fun.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 02:01:43 AM
Notable Heisenberg moments:
- "Because I say so."
- "We're done when I say we're done."
- Most threatening hug ever. *
His "I forgive you" line with the hug was very Heisenberg. All these moments really hint at Walt's perception of his invincibility. His ego is just going to keep growing.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 02:32:59 AM
One commenter made this (http://www.avclub.com/articles/live-free-or-die,82286/#comment-588979502) astute observation:
I think Skyler might be a goner by the time the cold open takes place. Walt appears quite sullen, isn't wearing a wedding ring, and is recreating a moment that his wife created for him two years ago. And later in the episode, they made specific mention of his wedding ring being on his finger.
I totally forgot about Skyler making his breakfast in the pilot with the 50. I don't think Walt would stop wearing his wedding ring cause Skyler died. I think its more likely she left him or he's not wearing cause it's part of his new identity. Also, I read someone mention that we don't know for sure that it's his 52nd birthday. We just know that what is says on his fake ID. Although, I wouldn't think Walt would make a point of mentioning his fake 52nd birthday to the waitress. So his real birthday must be the same as the fake. This show continues to call back to previous plot points. Maybe this new identity of Walt's was set up by Saul's guy from last season. Maybe he disappeared Walt and his family but Skyler refused to go with Walt so they disappeared separately. It makes since that Walt has been living a better part of a year alone with a new identity with no idea where his family is and he has nothing to lose so buys a huge fucking gun at a denny's. Its not the same Denny's from last season's first episode Box Cutter is it?
Yeah, I suppose the wedding ring thing is ambiguous. They are perhaps just not married. I have a hard time seeing Skylar come around. She might have at one point when she was having fun with the conspiracies and coverups, but full Heisenberg is too much for her. "The one who knocks" was even too much for her.
I think he's being honest about turning 52. The podcast confirms this; it's just meant to indicate a point in the future. Vince thought about shooting an alternate take with him making a "53" with bacon in case they wanted to push the scene farther in the future, but he decided not to.
I don't think Walt has been disappeared in the flash forward. He would probably be in a different country, not even showing his face in public, and certainly not involved in weapons deals.
It really was a fun episode. So much humor, yet it stays so dark, in some cases within the same line.
Oh another fun fact from the podcast. Vince wanted to use a Vietnam-era M60 because it's the same weapon Rambo used, which they like because it's a step up from Scarface.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 12:54:54 PM
It really was a fun episode. So much humor, yet it stays so dark.
The show in the beginning was hilarious. "Cow house" The show's had a few funny moments but with the threat of death hanging over them for the better part of the last two seasons it hasn't been no where as funny. This episode as you said had a lot of humor and physical gags. The truck tipping over was great.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 12:54:54 PM
I think he's being honest about turning 52. The podcast confirms this; it's just meant to indicate a point in the future. Vince thought about shooting an alternate take with him making a "53" with bacon in case they wanted to push the scene farther in the future, but he decided not to.
I think i've said it before, but I'll say it again: I hate that the podcast confirms things like this. It takes something away from the show when theres not rampant speculation about every single detail every week. I mean, I'm glad I know now, because it helps us focus our discussion, but it takes some fun out of it. I guess I'll just deal with it.
Everything about this opening episode was great fun. Except for Ted, man that guys a real downer these days, huh? Seeing as they could've easily written him off as dead this season and they didn't, I'm guessing he's going to stick around for a while. Maybe start demanding money, in which case he could become a new problem for Heisenberg to take care of.
Thank god for Breaking Bad. Mod and I needed something we could agree on again.
Takeaways from the season premiere:
- Interesting that, after the operatic human drama of the end of season four, they start off the new season with what's essentially a caper film.
- Anna Gunn is the weak link in this cast. I worry about her ability to hang when we get close to the end.
- Mike is the real tragic hero of this series. He's Breaking Bad's Omar.
- When Mythbusters gets around to doing a Breaking Bad special, it's going to be the best episode ever.
Quote from: Tictacbk on July 16, 2012, 02:18:50 PM
Except for Ted, man that guys a real downer these days, huh? Seeing as they could've easily written him off as dead this season and they didn't, I'm guessing he's going to stick around for a while. Maybe start demanding money, in which case he could become a new problem for Heisenberg to take care of.
Ted looked positively terrified, I don't think he'll be doing anything. I think that scene was meant to show Anna Gunn snapping from her compassionate self into her own little "Heisenberg".
Also, with the show opening with a breakfast scene, I'm starting to think something happens to Walt Jr., since it's become the meta joke of the show to associate him with breakfast scenes.
Quote from: ddiggler on July 16, 2012, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: Tictacbk on July 16, 2012, 02:18:50 PM
Except for Ted, man that guys a real downer these days, huh? Seeing as they could've easily written him off as dead this season and they didn't, I'm guessing he's going to stick around for a while. Maybe start demanding money, in which case he could become a new problem for Heisenberg to take care of.
Ted looked positively terrified, I don't think he'll be doing anything. I think that scene was meant to show Anna Gunn snapping from her compassionate self into her own little "Heisenberg".
I don't think Skyler has a Heisenberg. Walt still sees himself as just trying to protect himself and his family. He's just lies to himself about who he is. Skyler was just naive. She had no idea what Walt is capable of until only recently. Skyler was devastated when she saw Ted. She can't lie to herself the same way Walt does. I think that's why they kept him around to force her to see the consequences of her actions. I think the "good" statement she makes when Ted promises to keep quite wasn't a threat. She now she knows what Walt is capable of and she's scared for Ted's life.
Also, I think Hank has gained a lot of confidence along with Walt since the ending of season four. He wasn't boastful but rather quite and determined. I think it's a great change.
Quote from: ddiggler on July 16, 2012, 07:02:46 PMTed looked positively terrified, I don't think he'll be doing anything. I think that scene was meant to show Anna Gunn snapping from her compassionate self into her own little "Heisenberg".
Also, with the show opening with a breakfast scene, I'm starting to think something happens to Walt Jr., since it's become the meta joke of the show to associate him with breakfast scenes.
What she truly felt in that moment was compassion and horror. I think Ted was the focus of that scene, just to show where he's at mentally and physically (which is not a good place).
E: Also, what Brando said.
Walt's breakfast was more about the birthday callback, so I'm not sure I'd make that stretch. Maybe he was reminded of his son (and how into breakfast he is), but I think that's the extent of it. I think they'll keep Junior alive and might have him do something heroic. I also think I should stop making predictions.
Quote from: polkablues on July 16, 2012, 05:19:19 PM- Anna Gunn is the weak link in this cast. I worry about her ability to hang when we get close to the end.
Agreed. She needs to do different things with her face, beyond looking shellshocked. It works for now, but it's going to need to change.
Quote from: polkablues on July 16, 2012, 05:19:19 PMMike is the real tragic hero of this series.
I guess. But I'm not sure I have a great deal of sympathy for him. And by the end of the series, we might have a new tragic hero. The odds have to be on Hank, but you might have Skylar in the running too.
Quote from: Tictacbk on July 16, 2012, 02:18:50 PMI think i've said it before, but I'll say it again: I hate that the podcast confirms things like this. It takes something away from the show when theres not rampant speculation about every single detail every week. I mean, I'm glad I know now, because it helps us focus our discussion, but it takes some fun out of it. I guess I'll just deal with it.
I understand what you're saying, but I guess I've grown to trust that Vince & Kelley will leave secret or ambiguous the things they want to be secret or ambiguous. Sometimes a podcast guest will start to reveal something, and Vince will steer them away from it or obfuscate it. I'm not talking about spoilers... they avoid spoilers completely. Anyway, I find it useful to be guided away from a total dead end once in a while. The "52" here is a perfect example. They didn't intend for that to be ambiguous, and ambiguity in this case wouldn't have enhanced anything. It's so weird, I don't know why people keep going after these trivial details looking for ways to misinterpret them, when the show to my knowledge has never placed significant concrete meaning or plot clues in a variably interpretable trivial detail.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Quote from: polkablues on July 16, 2012, 05:19:19 PM- Anna Gunn is the weak link in this cast. I worry about her ability to hang when we get close to the end.
Agreed. She needs to do different things with her face, beyond looking shellshocked. It works for now, but it's going to need to change.
She's pumped her face so full of Botox and fillers and things, I'm not convinced she's physically capable of doing other facial expressions.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Quote from: polkablues on July 16, 2012, 05:19:19 PMMike is the real tragic hero of this series.
I guess. But I'm not sure I have a great deal of sympathy for him. And by the end of the series, we might have a new tragic hero. The odds have to be on Hank, but you might have Skylar in the running too.
I was being somewhat facetious with this, and in literal terms, Hank is almost certainly the hero of the story (I don't think Skyler as a character has the DNA for heroism), but I can easily imagine a parallel show in which Mike is the clear protagonist and everyone around him is a villain. He does bad things, but more than anyone else, he has an incorruptible code of how to be. Maybe he's more Ron Swanson than Omar. I don't know. Analogies are hard.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 16, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
It's so weird, I don't know why people keep going after these trivial details looking for ways to misinterpret them, when the show to my knowledge has never placed significant concrete meaning or plot clues in a variably interpretable trivial detail.
I think it probably stems from the season 2 cold openings where they showed "clues" that were more or less there just to create wild speculation about where the season would end. If I remember correctly, it was pretty much impossible to guess where it was going without looking at the episode titles. So now people can't help but obsess over every detail, and every avenue they may or may not go down, to the point where thats part of the fun.
I'm so glad the podcast is back! Just listened this morning. I only wish they would spend more time talking about story and what happens in the writer's room and less on production talk. It'd be great to split these topics into two different podcasts actually. It's not that I don't like the production side of it, but listening to a post-production producer go on and on about how rushed they were doing all the effects isn't as interesting as Vince and his writers talking about how and why they crafted each story.
'Breaking Bad' Creator Vince Gilligan Says He's Thinking About A Saul Goodman Spinoff
Source: Playlist
"The Dark Knight Rises" isn't the only bit of popular entertainment out there that is causing those who have yet to see it -- which is most of us -- to keep their Facebook page closed, and Twitter feed turned off for fear of spoilers. "Breaking Bad" is back with the first eight of the final sixteen episode season airing this summer, with the show off and running this past weekend, and if you're not caught up, you may want to avoid as much chatter about the series as possible. But once the show ends, is that it for Walter White and rest of the characters? Perhaps not. Bryan Cranston has already teased about the possibility of movie followup once the show is done, and it looks like another character might be getting their own vehicle.
IndieWire talked with the show's creator and creative brainchild Vince Gilligan at Comic-Con over the weekend and he revealed that he's been chatting with Bob Odenkirk about maybe getting him his own show. "I would love to see a Saul Goodman spinoff," Gilligan said. "I can't say that it is genuinely in the works at this moment, but certainly Bob Odenkirk and I have talked about it a little bit. I can't promise that it will ever happen, but I think I personally, as fan number one of this world, meaning the first one to partake of these plot moments and whatnot, I personally would love to tune in and see a good Saul Goodman show."
"I like the idea of a lawyer show in which the main lawyer will do anything it takes to stay out of a court of law," Gilligan continued. "He'll settle on the courthouse steps, whatever it takes to stay out of the courtroom. That would be fun -- I would like that."
Honestly? Yeah, we'd be down for that show too. While there have been a ton of shows on TV about lawyers, there haven't really been any about someone who operates quite as sleazily as Saul. For anyone who hasn't seen the show, on the surface he's a personal injury lawyer in a cheap suit and bad hairpiece, but his bread and butter are the jobs he takes on concerning the more unsavory elements of society, and the various deeds he does in legally gray areas that keep him just barely on this side of being a criminal. He's also funny as hell.
But before that can happen, Gilligan needs to wrap up "Breaking Bad" and he reveals that he and the writing team are still putting the touches on the scripts. "My writers and I are sitting down to break the final eight episodes now," he said. "We have quite a bit figured out, but you would be surprised perhaps how little we do have figured out. Because you want to dot all of the i's and cross all of the t's and make sure you're not forgetting anything major, but also because you want to stay as flexible as you can for as long as you can when coming up with these stories. You want to stay open to better ideas as they come down the pike."
He adds: "To that end, I think things about the ending of 'Breaking Bad' are going to hew pretty close to ideas I had from day one. But I most certainly did not have the whole thing figured out from Day One. And there's quite a bit left to figure out, so there's a lot of invention left to us to come up with before it's all done."
With a good break between the production of the first half of season five and the last -- which will air on AMC next year -- we're sure Gilligan is going to get this right and we can't wait to see where Walt's final journey takes him. "Breaking Bad" airs Sunday nights at 10 PM. But are you down for a Saul Goodman spinoff once it's all done?
also read somewhere that matthew broderick and john cusack were considered for the role of mr. white, apparently they turned it down, bless them for that.
anyway, does anyone knows what are they talking about here? its from the av club recap.
''Before getting to the laptop, the police examine a roofing hammer associated with the Gutierrez case. Callback, or call-forward? Seems unlikely to be random, especially since we get a close-up of it.''
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy251%2Ffbv%2Fvlcsnap-2012-07-19-13h35m35s137.png&hash=afb05bec57413d297539114942c797d3c3e149f3)
Quote from: Fernando on July 19, 2012, 01:50:38 PM
also read somewhere that matthew broderick and john cusack were considered for the role of mr. white, apparently they turned it down, bless them for that.
Here's the source:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/Breaking-bad-bryan-cranston-walter-white-amc-349840
But the actor previously best known for playing the dad on Fox's Malcolm in the Middle wasn't the first choice of network AMC or production company Sony Pictures Television.
Series creator Vince Gilligan had been impressed with Cranston's 1998 guest-starring turn on The X-Files, on which he played a desperate man suffering from radiation exposure, and pushed for the actor. But the suits had trouble envisioning Fox's suburban dad as their star and wanted to cast a big-name movie star.
Their picks? John Cusack or Matthew Broderick.
"We all still had the image of Bryan shaving his body in Malcolm in the Middle. We were like, 'Really? Isn't there anybody else?' " one former exec recalled in a cover story for The Hollywood Reporter.
But Cusack and Broderick both passed. And after Gilligan showed execs Cranston's X-Files episode, minds began to change.
"That was a tricky part to cast on X-Files," Gilligan said. "We needed somebody who could be dramatic and scary yet have an underlying humanity so when he dies, you felt sorry for him. Bryan nailed it."
Quote from: Fernando on July 19, 2012, 01:50:38 PM
anyway, does anyone knows what are they talking about here? its from the av club recap.
''Before getting to the laptop, the police examine a roofing hammer associated with the Gutierrez case. Callback, or call-forward? Seems unlikely to be random, especially since we get a close-up
I was wondering this too. But that recap was invalidated the moment she said:
"He idly arranges his bacon in a mirror-image S pattern [update: sharp-eyed commenters with long memories point out that this is a 52, indicating that it has been two years since Walt's 50th birthday in the pilot]."
Tis a shame since I love the avclub, but come on. Sharp-eyed commenters? The whole scene revolved around a conversation about that bacon.
That was quite an oversight, but her reviews are usually very good. It's probably because they're not giving out screeners this season.
A few days old now, but worth highlighting...
2012 Emmy Nominations
Outstanding Drama Series
Outstanding Directing in a Drama Series - Vince Gilligan for "Face Off"
Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series - Bryan Cranston
Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series - Aaron Paul
Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series - Giancarlo Esposito
Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series - Anna Gunn
Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series - Mark Margolis
The story sync is really something. Not that it reveals anything too deep about the show, but it's nice how well the synchronization works.
Spoilers.
Mike takes out Lydia's hit man and bam Bam BAM! A few seconds later, pop, a video replaying the scene is up. Ditto with other events, reminding us both where Chow and Chris came from previously.
SPOILERS, obviously...
The ending was a bold choice. Last week we had "most threatening hug ever"... this week we have "most threatening kisses ever." There was a grope in there, too. Are we supposed to think something happens after that? And will next week's episode also end with a "Walt creeps out Skylar" scene?
What I find especially interesting is that when this happened in the past, Walt was really bothered by Skylar's fear and tried to comfort her. Now he's just holding her hostage, perhaps even taking some pleasure in it. It's also just inhuman in some way how there's absolutely no awkwardness for him.
So what's Mike's thought process? My guess:
(1) In light of learning that Gus's "pay everyone off if everything falls apart" plan completely failed, Mike realizes that Lydia was right, and those people probably do need to be killed. (Then again, if all of them end up dead except for Mike, that might raise a red flag.)
(2) Since he won't be getting that money, he could use some income. Probably a minor consideration, since he could get a random security job, but maybe a consideration nonetheless.
(3) Mike doesn't want Walt and Jesse screwing up and incriminating him. Since he can't afford any more liabilities, he feels he needs to keep them in line.
Moving on...
Loved that cold open with the German fellow. One of the best cold opens ever. Any other show would have had the guy pull out a gun or hang himself or something, but of course Breaking Bad has to do everything its own way. They are so on top of their game right now.
So it was just that guy and Lydia? I think that was made pretty clear in this episode. Right?
SPOILERS for Breaking Bad and Drive...
That cold open was awesome! Best scene of the episode though was Mike and Lydia negotiating how he should kill her. Good god that was intense. I had no idea what was going to happen.
Did Mike's "are you ready?" before shooting that one guy remind anyone else of that chilling line from Albert Brooks's character in Drive when he slices open Bryan Cranston and said "don't worry, it's over."
I'm starting to agree with you guys about Anna Gunn's performance this season being one note. I don't know what the problem is. She's no Edie Falco but she's definitely held her own throughout most of the series.
More later...
Quote from: ©brad on July 23, 2012, 09:08:36 AM
SPOILERS for Breaking Bad and Drive...
That cold open was awesome! Best scene of the episode though was Mike and Lydia negotiating how he should kill her. Good god that was intense. I had no idea what was going to happen.
Did Mike's "are you ready?" before shooting that one guy remind anyone else of that chilling line from Albert Brooks's character in Drive when he slices open Bryan Cranston and said "don't worry, it's over."
I'm starting to agree with you guys about Anna Gunn's performance this season being one note. I don't know what the problem is. She's no Edie Falco but she's definitely held her own throughout most of the series.
More later...
She's still in shock, I guess. Maybe cooking a really awesome breakfast for Junior will snap her out of it.
She's about to crack. I don't think there's anyway she can stay in that house with Walt for much longer. I fully trust the writers and can't wait for them to prove me wrong as they always do but at this point it's hard to believe she wouldn't be running to Hank and/or the police.
She won't be running to Hank or the police, because she's implicated. Hank etc. would realize what the "gambling" was pretty much instantly, and how involved she was. She's also too frightened (of Walt) to do that, I think.
But I agree... I can't wait to see what happens with her. And I'm getting more comfortable with the performance... it's competent.
Skyler is in a shock/depressed state. I don't think she'll go to Hank because she thinks it's over. The guilt and pain she is feeling is her punishment for her part in Walt's crimes. I think when she finds out that Walt has started to cook again even though they have the money from the car wash she'll finally realize who Walt has become. The fact he would jump right back into it after putting his entire family in danger would be the last straw and send Skyler to Hank.
Would her telling Hank and risking jail time be worth potentially saving her kids' lives? It might not be the most dramatically satisfying option, but it's a logical one. Another idea would be getting Saul to give her and the kids new identities so they can just flee. Wouldn't be the first time she thought about doing that.
Does she have enough info on Walt to get herself off? It's not often the wives of crooks are charged with their involvement in their husbands crimes. She could turn on Walt and get into protective custody. I thought about Skyler using Saul's guy to disappear. But she doesn't have the money. There is no way Walt is going to give her power over the money now. I don't think she could sell the car wash without walt knowing. Finally, I'm thinking she would rather turn on walt than completely disappear herself and family. How pissed would Hank be to find out not only his bills were paid by walt but by his drug money. I don't neccissarly believe it's going to turn out any of these ways cause this show is completely unpredictable while understanding the viewers expectations and surpassing them.
I think hank knows or is catching on.
Are we just going to buy that the laptop was "encrypted" in that throw away tone he used and that he acts like it's no big deal that it was destroyed? They showed him looking at it in a previous episode didn't they?
The most telling moment was when the retiring cop dude was going on about having Gus at his home and not realizing the truth when it was right under his nose..look at hank when he says it. It's a strange scene for so much focus on a minor character but then it's really about hank's reaction and maybe that he's mulling over new possibilities he hadn't considered.
I mean, if he did find out, he would probably not act on that information immediately. At worst it would arouse suspicions about his complicity and at best it would make him look dumb especially at this point where he's been celebrated as a hero who knew better than every other cop in town.
Maybe. The expression on Hank's face was subtle and fleeting, though, and could be misinterpreted/overinterpreted. My impression was that that moment was a wink at the audience, not necessarily a description of where Hank's head is at.
I guess we've been spoiled to some extent. In the flash forward, Walt is not in prison or running from the law. Which means Hank is still putting things together or has already been neutralized, perhaps by Mike (who now surely needs to keep an eye on Hank) or Walt himself (who still has ricin). I can see Walt inviting Hank and Marie over for a barbecue and putting some ricin in Hank's cole slaw.
But I think one thing is clear. Hank must eventually put things together. The show pretty much has to deliver on that.
I think that comment was for the audience too. Will Hank make the same mistake or not? I'm thinking not. Right now he think he has caught Heisenberg (Gus) and his chemist Gale. Right now he has no need to be suspicious other than the guy who gave Tio the bomb. That could be easily written off as some mexican drug beef. But as soon as Walt begins to start to cook again and the blue meth begins to reappear in the streets that is when things are going to get interesting. In the last episode, Walt out right refused to cook with anything other than that chemical that makes the meth blue. His arrogance to keep it blue and to keep it his signature product might be his ultimate downfall. Hank will realize Heisenberg is still out there or at least his chemist is out there trying to replace him. We know everything Walt has done so It's difficult to remember sometimes how everyone else in his family sees him including Skyler until recently. It's been less than a year since the pilot when Hank was making fun of Walt for being a wimp.
I got the impression that Walt was running from the Law in the flash forward. Changed appearance, new identity and he's completely alone on his birthday having a secrete meeting buying a huge gun. It's so open for interpretation but that also makes it great. My impression was that he had finally lost it and going to kill a bunch of people while someone mentioned to me they thought he was buying the gun for protection. I don't think you buy that kind of gun for protection but it's interesting to hear how people interpreted the scene completely differently.
Yeah, I guess he could be running from the law. He just didn't seem paranoid or scared enough to me. I feel like he would be more freaked out in that situation. Still possible, though... maybe he's tired and weary.
I also interpreted his gun purchase as an offensive move, perhaps against a Tuco type (which would bring things nicely full circle). What other situation would require that much firepower? There's still a chance that the writers are playing with us and it turns out to be something unexpected... I would prefer to be surprised.
I'm starting to love Hank whereas I absolutely despised him in season 1. If you look at it, he's the moral center of the show. He's put his life on the line for a totally worthy cause 100% of the time. Then on the flip side, you have Walt, whose risks may have been perceived to be for a good reason in the beginning of the show and are now starting to fall into a sort of grey area. We should want to see good prevail over in the end, right? That would mean Hank doing his job of keeping drugs off the streets and putting a stop to Heisenberg. Oh no, but then we have no more Breaking Bad! Such is the sad fact of this season.
Yeah, I've been saying that for a while... Hank is the show's hero. He also rather quickly became one of the show's best characters, which was even more fascinating because of his character's somewhat stereotypical initial form.
As for his competence, I think Hank has been doing the best he can. His instincts are unmatched. Just tally up all the victories he's had, and all the near misses.
I think what really removed Hank from the Stereotype Zone was his time at the border and his PTSD. It humanized him as quickly as hell.
Yup, exactly.
What's great is that Stereotype Hank is really interesting in retrospect, because later you see how that's kind of his tough guy joker facade.
Side note. I also initially thought the border incident was the source of his PTSD, but Hank himself says somewhere that killing Tuco really started it, because he apparently really doesn't like taking someone's life. But clearly the border incident brought it to a new level.
http://collider.com/vince-gilligan-western-breaking-bad-interview/184215/ (http://collider.com/vince-gilligan-western-breaking-bad-interview/184215/)
Vince Gilligan talks Post Breaking Bad with interest in maybe doing a Western and there's no truth to the Saul spinoff only that he would like to see it happen.
Nothing certain. Just sounds like a guy who's current project is coming to an end and searching for something to do next.
Spoilers
Tonight's episode is good.
Oh God why did I read that?!? Make your spoiler text red next time!
Quote from: Brando on July 29, 2012, 04:37:04 PM
http://collider.com/vince-gilligan-western-breaking-bad-interview/184215/ (http://collider.com/vince-gilligan-western-breaking-bad-interview/184215/)
Vince Gilligan talks Post Breaking Bad with interest in maybe doing a Western and there's no truth to the Saul spinoff only that he would like to see it happen.
Nothing certain. Just sounds like a guy who's current project is coming to an end and searching for something to do next.
I hope he takes his entire writing staff and production staff and does a new show with all of them. VINCE GILLIGAN 4 LIFE!
Also... *whose
Damnit to hell I just moved apartments and won't have cable for several weeks! Is this show streamed anywhere? Anyone know how I can watch it tonight online somehow? I know I can download it tomorrow but ughhhhhh.
Mod can I come over?
I will PM you something. It's usually online within 20-60 min of the show ending, depending on whether it's 480p or 720p.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 29, 2012, 06:23:29 PM
Oh God why did I read that?!? Make your spoiler text red next time!
Quote from: Brando on July 29, 2012, 04:37:04 PM
http://collider.com/vince-gilligan-western-breaking-bad-interview/184215/ (http://collider.com/vince-gilligan-western-breaking-bad-interview/184215/)
Vince Gilligan talks Post Breaking Bad with interest in maybe doing a Western and there's no truth to the Saul spinoff only that he would like to see it happen.
Nothing certain. Just sounds like a guy who's current project is coming to an end and searching for something to do next.
I hope he takes his entire writing staff and production staff and does a new show with all of them. VINCE GILLIGAN 4 LIFE!
Also... *whose
The Western sounds fun. I assume he was talking about a television show. It will have a very hard time to live up to both Breaking Bad and Deadwood. I notice a lot of Wire love on the board but haven't come across any for Deadwood. Deadwood is one of my favorites. I've rewatched it more recently than I've seen The Wire so I'm loving the former over the latter right now. I think it gets overlooked just cause it was cancelled before finishing.
What If Vince took a few writers to create a new show leaving one or two of the best to create their own series. The Sopranos spawned Mad Men and Boardwalk Empire. I'm not the biggest fan of Boardwalk but it's an entertaining watch.
Also... *I see gramatical errors in almost everyone of my post when I read them again.
I'm sitting here waiting till BB to begin and I thought about something that threw me for a loop. Have The writers began writing the next season? Because up to now I thought the flash forward was flashing forward to the end of the entire show or sometime next season. Now I would think it strange if they would flashed forward to a time they haven't scripted out and planned yet. I never considered the possibility of it happening this season. That flash forward from season one when Walt is walking out of that blown up building with a newly shaved head comes to mind cause when I saw that for the first time it blew my mind and had no idea how they would get there in one episode but they did. Am I the only one who didn't consider the possibility of it happening this season? I think the time jump of a year threw me cause they never had that significant of a time leap. I can recall two but those were within a couple of months I think.
Also, I am refusing to say BB season 5 is split into two parts. I'm sticking to its two shortened seasons. You can't call it two parts with a year in between.
Spoilers!
The writer/director of this episode is SO a fan of Magnolia/Julianne Moore.
Ha, I was picturing PSH from PDL.
Quote from: Brando on July 29, 2012, 09:29:35 PM
I'm sitting here waiting till BB to begin and I thought about something that threw me for a loop. Have The writers began writing the next season? Because up to now I thought the flash forward was flashing forward to the end of the entire show or sometime next season. Now I would think it strange if they would flashed forward to a time they haven't scripted out and planned yet. I never considered the possibility of it happening this season. That flash forward from season one when Walt is walking out of that blown up building with a newly shaved head comes to mind cause when I saw that for the first time it blew my mind and had no idea how they would get there in one episode but they did. Am I the only one who didn't consider the possibility of it happening this season? I think the time jump of a year threw me cause they never had that significant of a time leap. I can recall two but those were within a couple of months I think.
Also, I am refusing to say BB season 5 is split into two parts. I'm sticking to its two shortened seasons. You can't call it two parts with a year in between.
Quote from: MacGuffin on July 19, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
But before that can happen, Gilligan needs to wrap up "Breaking Bad" and he reveals that he and the writing team are still putting the touches on the scripts. "My writers and I are sitting down to break the final eight episodes now," he said. "We have quite a bit figured out, but you would be surprised perhaps how little we do have figured out. Because you want to dot all of the i's and cross all of the t's and make sure you're not forgetting anything major, but also because you want to stay as flexible as you can for as long as you can when coming up with these stories. You want to stay open to better ideas as they come down the pike."
He adds: "To that end, I think things about the ending of 'Breaking Bad' are going to hew pretty close to ideas I had from day one. But I most certainly did not have the whole thing figured out from Day One. And there's quite a bit left to figure out, so there's a lot of invention left to us to come up with before it's all done."
I'll reply to the PTA comments about this episode tomorrow if i have a response. right now I am not sober or seeing any PTA comparison but If I do tomorrow when I rewatch the episode I will comment but right now I don't and will comment on the episode itself. It was a great episode. The best of this season. It had all the BB elements we've come to love. It was funny, it was clever, it had Walts nerdy side while also having a bunch of his crazy/Heisenberg side. Walt meeting that kid was so suspenseful. When he agreed to stay for the beer, was terrifying.
Skyler seeing Walt, Walt Jr and the baby watching Scarface has to be foreshadowing the future right?
Totally loved this episode. And even more than E1 and E2, this one requires a rewatch.
That Scarface scene was the best part for sure. Vince references Scarface in nearly every episode of the podcast, so it was thrilling to see it finally manifested in the show. When I saw that Walt had cheerfully gathered the kids to watch all the bloodshed, I think I gasped. He's just rubbing it in Skylar's face now, tormenting her. He also wants to get his message across: "I am Scarface. We are a Scarface family now. Deal with it."
The fumigation tent reminded me of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post-Modern_Prometheus) X-Files episode (which Vince unfortunately did not write). This was such a visual episode all the way through.
Overall, I think they're getting better at creating iconic images and iconic scenes. Season 4 had its slow passages, but it also had far more iconic scenes than any other season. It seems to be escalating now, even. I love it.
@ Brando - It took me a second, but the Julianne Moore/Magnolia and PSH/PDL comparisons are in reference to Skylar's "shut up" scene. I thought that was a great scene. And original enough that the PTA parallels didn't occur to me. On your other question... from what I've gathered, they planned out the season pretty early and will most likely return to that flash forward. I personally hope it comes as close to the end as possible. Also, despite my initial bitterness, I think it should be called one season. They are only taking the production break because of how much time the writing is taking for this season (i.e. the writers are not really taking a break, even if the production is).
With that last scene, are they really teasing a Walt/Mike standoff? Or is Walt hinting that he wants to kill Mike's guys? I couldn't exactly tell.
The podcast is up, but it's 1 hour and 25 minutes long. Wow. I'll have to listen to it tomorrow.
Side note. I rewatched E1 and E2, and Anna Gunn's "scared of Walt" acting does not always hold up. I mostly forgave it on the first viewing, but some of it is absolutely cringe-worthy... not in the intended way, but in a "she really doesn't know how to play this so she just kind of smushes her face and looks generically frightened" way. I honestly think she will be embarrassed to watch it back and see how it doesn't quite work. She might have made up for some of that in this episode, though.
Another note from rewatching... It now seems even clearer to me that, in the flash forward, Walt is not down on his luck or on the run. He's just sad, no doubt about something family-related.
Holy shit, tonight's episode displayed by far the best time-elapsing montage this show has ever done. What a fantastic forty seven minutes of television.
Mentioning the Shut up scene makes since and I would have have never made the connection without you referring to it. The thing I most remember bout the Scarface scene was the dialogue of "we all must die" or "we're all gonna die." I will rewatch it but think that's what was said and I'll update once I rewatch it.
My impression to that last scene was Walt was seeing things how he wants to see them. He was upset he has to pay for Gus' mistake. Gus wasn't sending Walt a secrete message bout how to run a drug business when he cut Victor's throat. It's Walt's arrogance and everything is about him. he sees it to suit his current situation/ setting up Jessie that Mike might have to be killed.
Does anyone have a count on how many creepy/crazy Walt situations/scenes in this episode? I have alteast eight I can remember: Walt sitting next to the kid on the couch 1, Walt moving in without notifying Skyler 2, Walt telling Marie bout Beneke 3, Walt convincing Jesse to break up with his girlfriend 4, Saul asking if Walt is alright with Mike handling the business side of things and Walt saying He handles Mike 5, I think Walt said something creepy when they were discussing the tent house situation 6, the scarface situation 7and then him in the final scene talking about Gus' message 8.
The other PTA connection was Jesse Plemons as Todd, one of the fumigation guys.
When Mike was pointing them out you knew he was going to be featured somehow since everyone had a nickname except him. Then later he spotted the nanny cam and I'm pretty sure he'll play a significant role in the story as that guy wouldn't take on the role just for one line, he got into the master for God's sake.
Shut up rankings
1. Julianne Moore
2. PSH
(very distant) 3. Anna Gunn
Same thing I'm thinking.
He gets to do Friday Night Lights, The Master, and now Breaking Bad?
Lucky dude.
I've been recapping for The Playlist if anyone is interested....
Episode 1: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/breaking-bad-returns-for-brilliant-season-5-opener-20120715#.UALSg3BjFwg
Episode 2: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/review-an-uneasy-alliance-forms-in-typically-strong-breaking-bad-episode-madrigal-20120723#.UA13sESWTMI
Episode 3: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/recap-walt-learns-about-his-overhead-in-breaking-bad-episode-3-hazard-pay-20120730
There's quite an art to recapping and I'm still trying to get a handle on it. Trying to keep it informative without getting toooo long which is tough since almost everything that happens ends up being important.
#9 and probably the best one: Finds out Skyler had a nervous breakdown, looks down the hallway menacingly then eats an apple.
Listening to last week's podcast and I just figured out where the opening scene of the season (likely) takes place.
SPOILERS
Gilligan mentions that Lydia doesn't live in Albequerque but instead in Houston, TX though it's not really clear when Mike visits her that he's someplace else. Check Google maps. Houston TX is a little more than a 30 hour drive from New Hampshire which is how far Walt says the drive is during the opening scene. (Albequerque is 37 hours from NH.) Boom.
MORE DEEP SPOILERS, IN RESPONSE TO MODAGE
Dang, good work. Is he going after Lydia, then? Don't answer that.
But targeting one person doesn't explain the need for all that firepower. Maybe Lydia has acquired a roaming posse of some kind.
No one does a motherfuckin montage like Breaking Bad. That meth-cooking scene was some of their best work yet.
How brilliant and darkly funny is it that they're cooking in the homes of unsuspecting suburbanites! They subverted everyone's expectations as to where the next warehouse would be. It's got to be bigger and badder, right? They even went through all the trouble of showing us three different places we exptected and why they were all totally wrong. How many shows would've just done all that through dialogue in an office? Love it.
Most chilling moment was the Scarface scene. When I initially saw it I almost groaned, and this might be a condition of knowing too much behind the scenes stuff and hearing the "Mr. Chips turning into Scarface" bit way too many times from the writers. But it worked. "Everyone dies in this movie right?" FUCKKKKKKK.
That is a very telling statement. We all assume Walt's death is the obvious ending for this. But him dying for everything he's done is almost a gift. Wouldn't the ultimate punishment be his entire family dying, and him having to live with that?
Walt just dying is too much of a gift. He wanted to die in the first season. He almost shot himself in the pilot then was pissed when he got the news that he was in remission. Up to this point in his actions, having the cancer return and him slowly dying would turn him back into a sympathetic character again and don't think the writers want that. He did cough in the flash forward which he hasn't done in a while but he did take medicine. if your suicidal or about to use this huge gun you just bought to go out in blaze of gun fire you wouldn't continue to take your pills.
You have to believe they are going have to do something in which Walt is confronted by the results of his actions. He can't just die before that. It has to be significant enough that Walt can no longer lie to himself. In that situation he will either finally realize what he's done or he'll be so far gone he won't care. That situation almost would have to do with his family because it was to protect his family why he started all of this. Even if it was with Jesse, Walt would be able to lie to himself or see it in his skewed perspective but his family he wouldn't be able to do that. Skyler might just go crazy.
It's only three episodes but it seems like the writers have purposely chosen not show Walt as Walt this season because he is fully Heisenberg and there is nothing left of Walt. Last season there were still moments of old Walt like when he was talking to Hank about his minerals. Now when Walt seems to be Walt again there is always an underlying evil to it. When Walt begins to talk to Jesse about his girlfriend and Brock it seems to be nice but then you realize what he's doing. Watching a film with his son and daughter is no longer innocent. I mean when he hears his wife had a nervous breakdown instead of talking to her he instead eats an apple. In the beginning he was so forceful in his relationship with Skyler. Now he is distant and uninterested.
http://www.redbubble.com/people/danndesigns/works/9173022-vamonos-pest (http://www.redbubble.com/people/danndesigns/works/9173022-vamonos-pest)
GET YOUR BAND SHIRTS AND STICKERS HERE AND KEEP THE SCENE ALIVE!
@ cbrad
I'm glad you liked the Scarface scene. I think it's my favorite scene of the season so far. So much is happening there within a few seconds. I already described why I appreciate it, but yeah, it's absolutely one of those iconic scenes.
As you might have heard by now, the podcast reveals that the "everyone dies" line was an improvisation by Bryan Cranston, of which the writers gleefully approved. And I think it's worth relishing exactly how it's said: "Oh-my-God look, look... It's, ugh... everyone dies in this movie don't they..." The way it's delivered so naturalistically, casually, and fleetingly, interrupted by gunfire at the end, is just perfect.
The scene actually reminds me of We Need To Talk About Kevin. In that movie, Kevin projects this wholesome family image to his dad while tormenting his mom, often simultaneously. In this scene, Walt is doing the supposedly wholesome family thing with Junior and Holly while clearly tormenting Skyler. Walt is even less subtle than Kevin... Scarface being not exactly a wholesome family activity, and Walt cheerfully pretending that it is.
@ Brando
Yup, good points.
Walt seemed to have an authentic twinge of relief when he learned that Brock was probably going to make it, but I think that was the last vapor of normal human decency escaping from him. They talked at length in the podcast about how all of his moments in this episode that appear to be compassionate or sincere are revealed to be manipulations. His puppeteering of Jesse seems effortless, and his wonderful improv with Marie seemed even more effortless. Vince has said several times now that he considers Walt to be "the best liar in the world" (hyperbole on his part, but it gets the point across).
I'm really not sure what Walt is doing with Skyler right now. Does he expect her to come around? Is he content with simply tormenting her in perpetuity? Is he still deciding?
To your first point, I think it's reasonably safe to say that Walt (1) will do at least a few more seriously bad things that will turn him several shades darker, (2) will be confronted with the complex consequences of his actions, but (3) will not be redeemed. What kills him, and when, feels almost immaterial.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 30, 2012, 02:50:32 AM
The podcast is up, but it's 1 hour and 25 minutes long. Wow. I'll have to listen to it tomorrow.
http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/insider-podcast-season-5
PTA/PSH/The Master name-drop at around 52:30
Yeah that was great. For whatever reason I forgot to mention that here with my other podcast musings. It's worth listening to at least that part of the podcast. It was a completely sincere and relevant shout-out, and I was impressed that the guy (was it Peter Gould?) even knew which character Jesse Plemons plays in The Master.
PSH does kind of seem wrong for the Gale role... he seems to have too much gravity... but I know I'm wrong, and I know he could have done it. He could play Gale. He could play David Costabile playing Gale if he wanted to. And man, the Cranston/PSH combo would have been explosive.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 31, 2012, 12:24:11 AM
I'm really not sure what Walt is doing with Skyler right now. Does he expect her to come around? Is he content with simply tormenting her in perpetuity? Is he still deciding?
My initial thought was that Walt is just oblivious to how disturbed Skyler is right now. That may be true to a certain point. But also I think there's more to it. There has been a power shift in their relationship. Skyler has always had an upper hand or the power in their marriage. Last season, she was still telling Walt what to do. Made him give back jr's car, she handled the buying of the car wash and treated Walt like a child when she saw him after Mike beat him up. I think Walt now knows he has the upper hand in their relationship. That scene from episode one where Skyler say's Beneke isn't going to talk and Walt says he forgives her is the moment the two realize the power shift of their relationship. He knows she's scared of him and isn't going to the police. I also think there is some vengeance in his actions. He thinks what she is going through is what Skyler put him through for the past year. She made him move out, she wanted a divorce against his wishes, she slept with Beneke and gave him his money. He probably feels all the torment he's been through is now it's her turn. At the end of episode two, Walt tells her something about how you learn to live with these feelings cause you did it to protect your family. Talking about all of Walt's actions having an underlying evil. That could be seen as him saying "this is what i've been going through for the past year but i'm not going to abandon you like you did me."
I think you're right. Most of what's going on is simply that - a power shift. So much plot has been rapidly unfolding that it's easy to forget how dramatically different their relationship was just 6 or 7 episodes ago. It would be fascinating to look back at last season's final episodes and identify the transition points. I think her taking the money for Ted, followed by the consequences at the end of "Crawl Space," is what caused the shift to begin. She was sort of shamed and lost her alpha status within the space of one scene. She could no longer be trusted with protecting the family or being in charge of its finances. Shortly thereafter, she clearly didn't have the clout to force Walt to come to Hank and Marie's house. Not even with Marie's support when she was yelling at Walt to get down there right now and such. Skyler didn't even try, really. She had sort of already resigned her position.
But yeah, I think there is a more malevolent element to Walt's behavior. Something beyond the power shift. You have the threatening hugs, kisses, and gropes in the first two episodes, which has now evolved to Kevin-style tormenting. I'm not feeling a specific tone of revenge... I think Walt is just relishing his power omnidirectionally. I wonder if he will continue to torment her, or just be satisfied that she's accepted her position.
I think there's a reason you don't see him wear the hat anymore. Heisenberg was almost like his super hero, crusading in to save the day after Tuco assaulted Jesse. Now both sides of his persona have sort of morphed into one. You see shades of his former self, like when he seemed excited about the equipment at the factory they were checking out, but then you realize his scientific enthusiasm still has a singular purpose. Even in the flash forward he seems genuine when he talks about the "great science museum", even though he's all business. It seemed like in Season 3 he had to get into character for those tense exchanges with Gus, but now it comes so naturally to him he doesn't differentiate the personalities anymore. It's a little unbelievable that this transformation has taken place over only one year, but they've made the change so gradual that I buy it.
Yes, these just keep getting better. So much to be excited about.
RE: Scarface... I feel like a lot of that Scarface scene is Walt not getting that he's doomed. Just being oblivious to the repercussions of what he's doing.
Also, I love this scene so much (the gun in his trunk during the flash forward is similar to the one Pacino uses at the end of Scarface), but I think it's more than coincidence that this episode airs right before "Mob Week" on AMC during which they are showing Scarface.
Jesse keeps getting so much closer to getting it.
Quote from: ddiggler on July 31, 2012, 04:44:58 PM
I think there's a reason you don't see him wear the hat anymore. Heisenberg was almost like his super hero, crusading in to save the day after Tuco assaulted Jesse. Now both sides of his persona have sort of morphed into one. You see shades of his former self, like when he seemed excited about the equipment at the factory they were checking out, but then you realize his scientific enthusiasm still has a singular purpose. Even in the flash forward he seems genuine when he talks about the "great science museum", even though he's all business. It seemed like in Season 3 he had to get into character for those tense exchanges with Gus, but now it comes so naturally to him he doesn't differentiate the personalities anymore. It's a little unbelievable that this transformation has taken place over only one year, but they've made the change so gradual that I buy it.
LOST had the same thing going on; everything takes place in a surprisingly short period of time. But I buy it. You'd think that people wouldn't have time to process everything that's happening, but when there's no day job and no unrelated daily routine (true in both cases), humans really do adapt to situations where so many events happen in a compressed time frame, and they move along with it accordingly.
Here's another (perhaps more relevant) reason. This transformation is deliberate. Other than his gradually evaporating conscience, Walt has never really resisted it. From the pilot, he was ready and willing to break bad... we can't forget that. Vince reminds us of that in the podcast every now and then. Walt has been willing himself through this transformation. (You can see his process in moments like Jane's death.) Now that there is virtually no resistance left, inner or outer, he's going to be out of control.
Just listened to the podcast. How come no one mentioned the writers reached out to PSH to play Gale?!
They did. :) (Look back on last page.)
Jeremy mentioned it, and so did jerome, kind of.
As good as this show is, PSH would've been too good for this show.
Eesh how did I miss that. Anyway I agree with you both. Him as Gale would have taken me out of the show. It was fun to here PT being mentioned on the podcast. I also like that Vince is a Friday Night Lights fan. Why do we like it so much when people we like like stuff we like.
Only 5 more episodes this season!
Quote from: ©brad on August 02, 2012, 09:12:39 AM
we like it when people we like like stuff we like
Marquee.
Leaves of Grass is a poetry collection by the American poet Walt Whitman (1819–1892). Though the first edition was published in 1855, Whitman spent his entire life writing Leaves of Grass,[1] revising it in several editions until his death. Among the poems in the collection are "Song of Myself", "I Sing the Body Electric", "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking", and in later editions, Whitman's elegy to the assassinated President Abraham Lincoln, "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd".
This book is notable for its delight in and praise of the senses during a time when such candid displays were considered immoral. Where much previous poetry, especially English, relied on symbolism, allegory, and meditation on the religious and spiritual, Leaves of Grass (particularly the first edition) exalted the body and the material world. Influenced by Ralph Waldo Emerson and the Transcendentalist movement, itself an offshoot of Romanticism, Whitman's poetry praises nature and the individual human's role in it. However, much like Emerson, Whitman does not diminish the role of the mind or the spirit; rather, he elevates the human form and the human mind, deeming both worthy of poetic praise.
Particularly in "Song of Myself", Whitman emphasized an all-powerful "I" who serves as narrator. The "I" tries to relieve both social and private problems by using powerful affirmative cultural images. The emphasis on American culture helped reach Whitman's intention of creating a distinctly American epic poem comparable to the works of Homer. Originally written at a time of significant urbanization in America, Leaves of Grass responds to the impact urbanization has on the masses.
sooooo Breaking Bad is like Leaves of Grass, you're saying?
Quote from: Reelist on August 03, 2012, 02:14:06 AM
sooooo Breaking Bad is like Leaves of Grass, you're saying?
It's the book Walter unpacks and places on his night stand.
I'd be fuckin' lost without this place.
Okay, everyone. You can proceed to dissect Mac's reference which I only vaguely understand. I'll keep my mouth shut :yabbse-lipsrsealed:
Walt and Gale bonded over a Walt Whitman poem in the lab. Also, didn't Gale dedicate his lab notebook "to W.W." which Hank asked Walt about? The gimmick was that it could have been Walter White or Walt Whitman, and of course Walt, finding the Walt Whitman poem in the notebook, made that connection for Hank. This is from memory, but that's basically what it's about. That's why Walt smiled when he unpacked that book.
Walt smiles and remembers fondly when he sees Leaves of Grass while any person with a strand of guilt would have been saddened. Gale was a nice guy caught in the middle and Walt doesn't feel any guilt over his death. He puts the book right on his nightstand instead of putting it away like the others. He's fine being reminded of it every night before bed while Skyler is tormented by the other guy who was caught in the middle Beneke.
If I remember correctly, Walt first wore the hat in the last scene of the first season at his meeting with Tuco. Unless he wore it to visit Jesse in the hospital after Tuco beat him. At that point, he was trying to pretend to be something he wasn't and failing. He picked the meeting spot of the junkyard believing it to be a good spot for a drug deal but then both Jesse and Tuco mentioned it wasn't. He wore the hat to come across as a bad ass which he wasn't. It was sort of a mask or costume he would put on. He wore the hat every time he meet with people he wanted to deceive so they didn't see him as high school chemistry teacher. It was a way for him to pretend to be something he wasn't and he no longer has to pretend. If the hat comes back(you have to imagine the writers know how iconic the hat is and will) it will probably be in a new capacity. Thinking of Walt in that junkyard wearing that hat just makes me laugh now.
The dynamic between Skyler and Walt has never been this fascinating. It's just so strange and volatile. The scene in the bedroom was absolute magic, with Walt relentlessly outwitting her and stalking her like a lion. Description can't do it justice.
I'm so relieved that Skyler has broken out of her mold, because this is definitely working.
The GPS subplot is interesting.
Evidence that it wasn't Lydia
She genuinely had trouble turning off the cameras, and she would have needed to do that to plant it, right?
Evidence that it was Lydia
Everything Mike said. Plus, who else would have done it? It seems unlikely that they'd reveal it was the DEA, given Mike's comment about it being sloppy (and it did look sloppy). Also, isn't that one of those GPS devices that you have to retrieve to get the data? (If it was legitimately planted, how would they go about retrieving it?)
Seems like a toss-up. Evidence seems to point away from Lydia and the DEA, so I'm hoping it's a third party. Maybe it was Todd.
I'm so looking forward to next week, which has been hyped as one of the very best episodes of the first eight. I will be speculating all week about the plot. Unless Vince spoils it in the podcast. (Which is very possible at this point. He needs to shut his spoilery mouth.) I'm sure it involves straightening out the methylamine situation.
EDIT:Please ignore me saying that the writers would bring the hat back in a new capacity. Only remember I said they would bring it back.
That scene between Walt and Skyler was great. It reminded me of the Scene between James Gandolfini and Edie Falco in their breakup except in this one it was one sided. Walt stalking her around the bedroom putting down her plans was great/terrifying. He was really expecting a surprise party! That ending with Skyler smoking in the house with her actions saying "I want you to die of cancer so bad I'm smoking" and Walt responds with the story of Jesse wanting to kill him was chilling.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 06, 2012, 12:50:46 AM
I'm so looking forward to next week, which has been hyped as one of the very best episodes of the first eight. I will be speculating all week about the plot. Unless Vince spoils it in the podcast. (Which is very possible at this point. He needs to shut his spoilery mouth.) I'm sure it involves straightening out the methylamine situation.
If he does spoil it don't talk about it here. This is why I avoid the podcast. The show is the show and everything else can go to hell.
I don't understand how someone like yourself who appreciates the value of seeing things with unspoiled eyes can expose himself to so much extraneous bullshit when it comes to this show.
I don't know a single thing about upcoming episodes let alone which ones are going to be "the best" of this short season. I hate hearing that crap. When you speculate you're not even playing the same game as the rest of us.. you will probably know how the show will end from some hint they give on the podcast, not from working through the show.
Quote from: Pubrick on August 06, 2012, 08:00:27 AM
I don't know a single thing about upcoming episodes let alone which ones are going to be "the best" of this short season. I hate hearing that crap. When you speculate you're not even playing the same game as the rest of us.. you will probably know how the show will end from some hint they give on the podcast, not from working through the show.
This is totally true. That said...
Spoilerssome information in this episode confirmed my earlier theory about the location of the flash-forward.
Read here (http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/recap-walt-celebrates-birthday-number-fifty-one-in-rian-johnson-helmed-episode-of-breaking-bad-20120805?page=2#blogPostHeaderPanel).
- Scene of the season (so far) was that bedroom showdown. Walt's body language was so threatening I really thought he was going to hit her. It's an absolutely terrifying scene that was brilliantly acted and directed.
- We were wrong about Anna Gunn. She killed it in this episode.
- This is just film geeky stuff, but I loved the cold open. The cars coming into the driveway, the way the camera jerked back and forth with that music. I love how exuberant this show can be with the camera. It never comes off as style over substance or show-offy.
- Marie is the worst secret keeper ever. Also I love Hank's line: "Marie isn't exactly an advertisement for advanced mental health."
- The actress playing Lydia (who's Scottish!) is fantastic. Lydia is nuts.
- Interesting that we're not getting much of Jesse so far.
More later have to get back to work.
Quote from: Pubrick on August 06, 2012, 08:00:27 AMIf he does spoil it don't talk about it here. This is why I avoid the podcast. The show is the show and everything else can go to hell.
I don't understand how someone like yourself who appreciates the value of seeing things with unspoiled eyes can expose himself to so much extraneous bullshit when it comes to this show.
I don't know a single thing about upcoming episodes let alone which ones are going to be "the best" of this short season. I hate hearing that crap. When you speculate you're not even playing the same game as the rest of us.. you will probably know how the show will end from some hint they give on the podcast, not from working through the show.
Hmm I should clarify.
Before this year on the podcast, they religiously avoided spoilers. Vince and Kelley would kind of keep each other in check in case a spoiler started creeping into the conversation. Looking back it's quite impressive; for example in the episode where Jesse had a gun to Walt's head, they somehow managed to talk through that scene in a behind-the-scenes way (talking about the process of shooting it etc.) without even hinting that Walt was lying.
And seriously, because they avoid talking about those things, 95% of the podcast content is generic behind-the-scenes stuff. Anyone who's listened to it can vouch for that. The rest is usually stuff like who came up with what idea and when, how something was pitched, or whether a particular line was ad-libbed (two great examples of that so far this season). Which is a delight to hear.
Also I always review here before reading any other reactions or listening to the podcast. The only "inside information" I have that would help me predict the future plot is fairly obvious stuff from the show that wasn't meant to be unclear.
In terms of meaning, the biggest thing they ever revealed was that Gus was gay and Maximilo was his partner. Vince didn't bring it up and was reluctant to acknowledge that it was true. He tried to say it was open to interpretation, but he kind of folded because the cat was out of the bag, and it's kind of obvious anyway (and common knowledge now). They really try to keep things open to interpretation. Vince is always quick to say "it's open to interpretation" whenever someone starts opining about something he'd rather keep ambiguous.
I am basically the spoiler Nazi, and none of that bothers me.
I may have exaggerated the spoilers they've given this year. The biggest one I heard was "you'll be hearing a lot of German accents next week" (referring to E2). The second spoiler (from the E3 podcast) was very cryptic, and I have no idea what it means. I managed to mute the third spoiler, so I have no idea what it was. Either way I need to keep the mute button at hand now, which is annoying, unless Vince settles down and keeps his mouth shut, which he should. He appears to be too excited about the season to refrain from teasing. At least he gives a brief spoiler warning beforehand.
But yes, I'll obviously avoid posting podcast spoilers here.
Quote from: ©brad on August 06, 2012, 09:45:00 AM
- Scene of the season (so far) was that bedroom showdown. Walt's body language was so threatening I really thought he was going to hit her. It's an absolutely terrifying scene that was brilliantly acted and directed.
- We were wrong about Anna Gunn. She killed it in this episode.
- This is just film geeky stuff, but I loved the cold open. The cars coming into the driveway, the way the camera jerked back and forth with that music. I love how exuberant this show can be with the camera. It never comes off as style over substance or show-offy.
- Marie is the worst secret keeper ever. Also I love Hank's line: "Marie isn't exactly an advertisement for advanced mental health."
- The actress playing Lydia (who's Scottish!) is fantastic. Lydia is nuts.
- Interesting that we're not getting much of Jesse so far.
More later have to get back to work.
Yeah, Lydia is a great character already. I hope she sticks around. Also her American accent is amazing. The very subtly strange way she pronounces some words, and the way her voice sort of quivers on certain syllables, are just the icing on the cake.
Quote from: Brando on August 06, 2012, 01:44:38 AMEDIT:Please ignore me saying that the writers would bring the hat back in a new capacity. Only remember I said they would bring it back.
I think the hat is serving the same purpose, but in a new context. Walt is still essentially pretending. He may have the authority and the confidence, and he may be a spectacular liar, but he's not being half as cautious and aware as he should be. The loose thread on the hat was the perfect confirmation.
Quote from: Pubrick on August 06, 2012, 08:00:27 AMThe show is the show and everything else can go to hell.
Our discussion here is part of the "everything else." Where do you draw the line?
I think you're unfairly judging the podcast. Especially not having listened to it. I recommend listening to some of the earliest podcasts (starting in Season 2) to get a better idea of what it's like.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 06, 2012, 11:39:10 AM
Quote from: Pubrick on August 06, 2012, 08:00:27 AMThe show is the show and everything else can go to hell.
Our discussion here is part of the "everything else." Where do you draw the line?
I think you're unfairly judging the podcast. Especially not having listened to it. I recommend listening to some of the earliest podcasts (starting in Season 2) to get a better idea of what it's like.
Exactly. I totally understand the desire of wanting to retain a pure viewing experience and avoiding podcasts and interviews is probably the best way to watch anything. In this particular case, as Jeremy said 90% of it is production talk and the other 10% is story discussion that's not too dissimilar from the discussion we have here. I guess I really don't see the difference. Like any podcast of someone you like or admire, it's just fun to hear Vince and his writers talk, even when they're shooting the shit and talking about nothing which happens a fair majority of the time.
Yup.
I'm guessing Pubrick has a bigger problem with the podcast because the meaning derived therein is more authoritative and less speculative.
But let's face it, in terms of meaning, this show is not exactly ambiguous. It's generally pretty on-the-nose, actually. Spectacularly enjoyable, but relentlessly on-the nose. The Scarface scene is a good example. I can name at least 3 examples from E4.
The story meaning they touch on in the podcast reveals next to nothing that wasn't already completely obvious. Mostly they just say how much they enjoyed the performance or the way it was shot, or they are simply expressing their delight with how well it generally turned out, and how proud they are of the scene.
One of BB's greatest strengths is its inexplicable unpredictability, so I agree that one should avoid plot spoilers. As I've said, those are religiously avoided in the podcast with the strange exception of 2-3 minor ones this season, and thankfully they are preceded by spoiler warnings.
Best thing about this show is how it all plays out on TV. Being sleuth and trying to connect the dots based on a podcast seems like it would take a lot of the fun of the show away. When reading this thread, the second I see the word podcast I skip the rest of the post.
Maybe break posts up into 2 parts so others can participate? Like first part for the show and what happened and a second part for discussing podcasts, clues and what you think is going to happen based on hints or spoilers?
Lydia is great. It's a hard character to play as well. She easily could become annoying with her being uptight and her demands at a diner but her utter disgust when she sees she's wearing two different shoes was very funny. When she saw the tracking device, I thought to myself what a horrible way to try and hide a tracking device. I'm not Mike and didn't put it together that she put it there herself. If she did cause JB made a good point about if she would have been able to do that herself. I love Mike's bland reaction to it as well. Well that's it. She's dead. Does that mean the DEA now knows how Walt is making his blue meth? Originally they didn't know how he was making it or why it was blue. Or I have forgotten them figuring that out a long time ago?
Quote from: S.R. on August 06, 2012, 12:24:25 PM
Best thing about this show is how it all plays out on TV. Being sleuth and trying to connect the dots based on a podcast seems like it would take a lot of the fun of the show away. When reading this thread, the second I see the word podcast I skip the rest of the post.
See our posts about the podcast above. Podcast spoiler warnings is fine I guess but there's nothing we're doing in this thread that we don't all do for every TV show and movie obsessed about on this board. Just look what's going on in the master thread. Citing non-spoilerful tidbits from a showrunner podcast on episodes after they've aired is no different/worse than linking quotes from interviews or articles, and it's certainly less damaging than dissecting a trailer frame by frame.
Quote from: S.R. on August 06, 2012, 12:24:25 PM
Best thing about this show is how it all plays out on TV. Being sleuth and trying to connect the dots based on a podcast seems like it would take a lot of the fun of the show away. When reading this thread, the second I see the word podcast I skip the rest of the post.
Maybe break posts up into 2 parts so others can participate? Like first part for the show and what happened and a second part for discussing podcasts, clues and what you think is going to happen based on hints or spoilers?
I have no idea what you're talking about. What dots have I ever connected based on the podcast? (Modage did, but I didn't even pick up on that, nor was I trying to harvest clues from the podcast.)
I just looked through my posts from this season, and the only thing I posted about the podcast revealing something was that it confirms Walt was being honest when he made his bacon into a 52. I don't think that falls into the "sleuthing" category. I'm sorry, but if someone is speculating that he was lying to the waitress about his birthday via bacon, I don't think that's useful speculation in the first place.
Dean Norris is on Fresh Air tonight.
I was well aware that there was Skyler hatred out there. I even found her a little annoying in the beginning of the series but I guess I was naive to the amount of hatred people have for her. I just read the comments section of AV Clubs review of last nights episode. Wow. It was only a couple of people but it got bad quick. It turned into calling Skyler horrible names and wishing her dead and more. Apparently Breaking Bad is a reference to Skyler and not the saint Walter White.
Yeah I don't understand the Skyler hate. I think a lot of those people are simply misinterpreting the show, for example perhaps they can't get past thinking that Walt is the hero and Skyler is an obstruction. I can understand Anna Gunn hate for a few specific scenes, but even then she redeemed herself pretty thoroughly in E4.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 06, 2012, 04:02:20 PM
Dean Norris is on Fresh Air tonight.
Fantastic interview. It could be Terry Gross's best Breaking Bad interview yet. (She's done 3 others.) Dean Norris does let out a spoiler, though. Just turn it off when he starts talking about whether to let his kids watch Breaking Bad. You won't miss much in the tail end of the interview.
It's a medium spoiler. Maybe 5/10 on the spoiler scale. He basically says there's a ____ scene involving ____ later in the season. No specifics... it's an offhanded tease.
http://www.npr.org/2012/08/06/158196312/dean-norris-on-playing-good-in-breaking-bad
Podcast is up, but you have to use this link:
http://media.amctv.com/breakingbad/podcasts/Breaking-Bad-Insider-504.mp3
Skylar hate is generally douchebags who watch the show purely for the pulpy action thriller part of it. Kind of reminds me of the two audiences of the Sopranos, particularly the blood-thirsty ones who just wanted to see violence and misogyny and had no clue what the show was really about.
Speaking of Skylar, she acknowledges that there's no hope in saving herself, her only priority now is to keep the kids safe. What exactly does she have to lose to tell Hank about Walt, if she's truly this terrified of him? I find it hard to believe she couldn't cook up some deal with the DEA that includes partial immunity, if that's even a thing. Why can't she say "okay, I cooked the books and I knew about the meth but I had no idea my crazy husband was killing people or was even that far up in the drug food chain. All I want is my kids to be safe and me as far away from this lunatic as possible. I'm giving you Heisenberg, you give me a break."
I was just surprised by the intensity of the hatred. Some definitely have a hatred of women in general that goes beyond any show.
EDIT: I hope my own hatred for Lori on Walking Dead hasn't crossed the line. I don't think it has. It's really just my annoyance with the writers writing smart characters doing dumb or uncharacteristic things. Also, my most hated television character of all time was a male which was Vic Mackey of the Shield.
Quote from: ©brad on August 06, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
Speaking of Skylar, she acknowledges that there's no hope in saving herself, her only priority now is to keep the kids safe. What exactly does she have to lose to tell Hank about Walt, if she's truly this terrified of him? I find it hard to believe she couldn't cook up some deal with the DEA that includes partial immunity, if that's even a thing. Why can't she say "okay, I cooked the books and I knew about the meth but I had no idea my crazy husband was killing people or was even that far up in the drug food chain. All I want is my kids to be safe and me as far away from this lunatic as possible. I'm giving you Heisenberg, you give me a break."
I'm trying to recall her crimes.
Accessory to multiple murders after the fact.
Accessory to cooking and distributing meth.
Cooking Beneke's books.
Hurting Beneke.
Money laundering.
I think she could get off for everything that has to do with Walt. She might have a little more trouble getting off for cooking Beneke's books. She's holding out hope Walt will die of cancer but how long can she keep telling herself that and believe it? Smoke all she wants but it seems Walt is going to be around for a while. Then she will have to consider something else. Maybe she considers going to Hank with what she knows but Walt's a deadman if she finds that Ricin.
In season three with her divorce lawyer, she held out hope "the problem would take care of itself" and he would die. She's making the same mistake again. Also, she was scared for her family to find out about Walt when all he was doing was cooking meth. Look how Marie freaked out when she found out about Skyler's affair. Walt jr is a drama queen as well. Marie and Walt jr would lose their shit if/when they find out about everything.
Quote from: ©brad on August 06, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
Skylar hate is generally douchebags who watch the show purely for the pulpy action thriller part of it. Kind of reminds me of the two audiences of the Sopranos, particularly the blood-thirsty ones who just wanted to see violence and misogyny and had no clue what the show was really about.
Speaking of Skylar, she acknowledges that there's no hope in saving herself, her only priority now is to keep the kids safe. What exactly does she have to lose to tell Hank about Walt, if she's truly this terrified of him? I find it hard to believe she couldn't cook up some deal with the DEA that includes partial immunity, if that's even a thing. Why can't she say "okay, I cooked the books and I knew about the meth but I had no idea my crazy husband was killing people or was even that far up in the drug food chain. All I want is my kids to be safe and me as far away from this lunatic as possible. I'm giving you Heisenberg, you give me a break."
In addition to what Brando said, here's my take.
I think she is just waiting for the cancer to come back, which, she admits, is not exactly a genius plan. She really has no idea what to do and is 100% in over her head. This conspiracy and coverup stuff may have seemed fun to her at first (remember her delighted light-hearted scheming and all the car wash stuff?), but she never expected things to become this grave.
I guess I don't know enough about law enforcement, and neither does Skyler, but yes, there are plenty of cases of informants getting immunity. There was one such story on This American Life recently, where the informant got full immunity but had to go into witness protection. I'm not sure Skyler wants that life. She saw what happened to Hank; she probably thinks there are, well, who knows how many people who would come after her and her family if she informed. She might have to live with that fear for herself and Hank and Marie and her kids for the rest of her life, in or out of witness protection. Also, in exchange for immunity (which would be generous in her case), the DEA would most likely have her collect evidence and wear a wire. There's a good chance Walt would catch her. So yeah. Waiting for the cancer to come back does sound like a more attractive option.
Anyway...
They address the Skyler hate at the beginning of the podcast, with Anna Gunn herself providing the best theory. Definitely worth a listen.
At the very end of the podcast, Vince emphasizes what "type" of episode E5 is. Which is maybe a 3/10 on the spoiler scale. Otherwise it is entirely spoiler-free. Heaping amounts of behind-the-scenes content in this one.
As mentioned in the podcast, here is Sam Catlin's "cameo" in the episode:
(https://xixax.com/jb/samcatlin.jpg)
Quote from: Brando on August 06, 2012, 10:09:18 PM
I was just surprised by the intensity of the hatred. Some definitely have a hatred of women in general that goes beyond any show.
Are you new to the internet? Unbridled misogyny is a staple of almost every comments section out there.
It's just that the AV Club usually has surprisingly good comments that are actually worth reading. Here's one posted just a few minutes ago:
QuoteI know I'm super late to this party, but am I the only one that made the connection between Breaking Bad and Ratatouille? Both are about unlikely cooks who make the best possible finished product that anyone can find. Both cooks must remain unknown because if their true identities are revealed, the whole thing comes crumbling down. Lastly, both cooks grow resentful that they do not receive the recognition that they think they rightfully deserve.
For contrast, here is (probably) one of the comments that Brando is referencing:
QuoteI just would like to see Walt kill Beastler ASAP so we don't have to look at her "Michael Jackson in a fright wig" plastic surgery-ravaged face anymore.
Although one must give her some props as the rare character who combines horrendous physical appearance with horrendous personality. Usually, of course, it is one or the other.
But contra, if Beastler manages to stay alive until the season that films in 2013 it will be mildly interesting to see what weight she comes in at. That hideous skank has competed at everything from Welterweight up to Heavyweight (maybe even SUPER-Heavyweight last season) during the run of this show and that is pretty cool given that only one year of "show" time is supposed to have elapsed.
It's just out of place on the AV Club, because commenters have to register and it's (usually) well-moderated.
I giggled at Beastlar
(https://xixax.com/jb/neverforget.jpg)
I'll never look at those ugly ass pontiacs the same again
Breaking Bad really has made the most mundane things iconic.
Vince Gilligan is on Conan tonight. Conan is a huge BB fan so I'm guessing there will be no spoilers.
When it's up, link to it here and I will take the spoiler bullet.
I watched it. No spoilers during the interview but the clip is from this sunday or an upcoming episode. They don't say anything about the clip except to set it up. Just stop watching it when they start to set it up. I was a little slow with the remote and about one second and a line from a character has been spoiled for me.
EDIT:When Conan mentions Walt to set up the clip you can turn off. Vince talks about coming up with the show, about violence and more just with Conan making jokes.
Here it is. Remember to heed Brando's warnings and avoid the clip at the end.
This is a pretty good one. Ten times better than his Cranston interview.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 06, 2012, 12:50:46 AMThe dynamic between Skyler and Walt has never been this fascinating. It's just so strange and volatile.
i love how skylar's resistance actually
fuels walt's need to get the meth moving. it makes perfect emotional sense but i never would've anticipated it. he gets to be
the man now after a life of personal/emotional impotency and he will do anything to defend his empire. that sense of cool control has been his true addiction the whole time. i can actually see him shooting hank at this point if he needs to.
this season has been utterly fantastic so far. i was very skeptical since season 4 was the weakest and featured a seemingly perfect ending to the series. the idea of another season seemed tacked on/just taking advantage of the fact that so many people were finally paying attention. but no. it's back to being the best thing ever.
Quote from: picolas on August 08, 2012, 09:28:31 PM
this season has been utterly fantastic so far. i was very skeptical since season 4 was the weakest and featured a seemingly perfect ending to the series.
While the season 4 ending was terrific for the season and the Gus plot, I felt it would have been an incomplete ending to the series as a whole. Even if you weren't aware of the show's concept of turning Mr Chips into Scarface, you had to realize Walt was Breaking Bad to point of no return. He didn't reach that point at the end of season four. While It would have been an alright ending to the series there was too much left open for it to be satisfying at all by not delivering what it has been promising since the pilot. I think the biggest being that Walt would just stop and everything would be happily ever after. As you said this season has been great and it would have been a horrible thing for AMC not to have renewed the show. I enjoyed season 4. Think your the first I've heard to say they were disappointed by it or didn't think it live up to BB standards.
Quote from: picolas on August 08, 2012, 09:28:31 PM
this season has been utterly fantastic so far. i was very skeptical since season 4 was the weakest and featured a seemingly perfect ending to the series.
Season 4 was amazing! It gave us at least 5 of the best episodes the show has ever done (boxcutter, problem dog, salud, crawl space, and end times). You don't have to write a dissertation on it but why do you think it was the weakest? Breaking Bad has a weak episode here are there in every season, but I think it's the rare show where every season has generally been a triumph. I don't think I could call any season weak.
Quote from: Brando on August 08, 2012, 09:45:25 PMWhile the season 4 ending was terrific for the season and the Gus plot, I felt it would have been an incomplete ending to the series as a whole.
you're right that that ending wasn't as far as the show was initially intended to go. in terms of scale it seemed like the biggest it could ever get at the time. and i think i wanted it to end a little because i didn't love it as endlessly as i used to. i was worried it was going to slip further.
i have a few problems with season 4. the overall pace of the first few episodes is a failed experiment. the show wanted to try something radically different by having very little happen each week (relative to the pace of the rest of the series). it often felt forced and joyless to me. i commend the show for wanting to change all the time and that is a large part of what makes it so great (unlike most long running shows which die painful deaths for refusing to mix up a winning formula). it definitely picked up towards the middle/end but i had a lot of issues with the reveal of everything being walt's master plan. it required way too much foresight to be believable for me. so much had to go
exactly as he believed it would go. i also think the tone of the show shifted a little more into thriller/adventure territory.. less amazing psychological warfare. and there were a few shitty performances here and there.. i'm sure there were other things but it's been too long for me to remember more details. i stand by season 2 being the finest, followed by 1 then 3.
BUT i can see 5 sneaking into second or maybe even taking the top spot at this rate. i can't think of another tv character who has evolved so much from beginning to end. it's such a magnificent accomplishment. every episode with this new, consciously sinister kingpin walt is an epic payoff for years of groundwork.
Quote from: ©brad on August 08, 2012, 09:52:04 PMI don't think I could call any season weak.
yes. i say 'weakest' in a relative sense.
Quote from: picolas
I can't think of another tv character who has evolved so much from beginning to end. it's such a magnificent accomplishment. every episode with this new, consciously sinister kingpin walt is an epic payoff for years of groundwork.
I think this is probably true, but I've been having a problem for a while now with how little time has passed in the show. Especially since in this last episode they called attention to it.
Everything that's happened in the last 4.5 seasons of tv has taken place in a year? It quite the "buy" for the viewer, though one I've come to terms with because it's such a great show... but I think it's probably the show's biggest flaw.
Quote from: picolas on August 08, 2012, 10:05:23 PM
i can't think of another tv character who has evolved so much from beginning to end. it's such a magnificent accomplishment.
Once it's all said and done, Breaking Bad will be among talks of where it sits among the best TV shows ever. Where ever it lands among the best is debatable depending on your personal likes. However, I think Walt has to go down as the best lead in a TV show ever. I love Mad Men but Don has no chance against Walt. Tony Soprano was great but Walt has changed so much. No lead for shows like The Wire, lost and others. I can't think of another lead character that would come close to Walt.
Quote from: picolas on August 08, 2012, 10:05:23 PM
it definitely picked up towards the middle/end but i had a lot of issues with the reveal of everything being walt's master plan. it required way too much foresight to be believable for me. so much had to go exactly as he believed it would go.
I think the Plan had two successful outcomes for Walt. The first outcome is what we witnessed. The second successful outcome would have been if Jesse killed Walt. I think Walt was in such a corner that would have been a success for him. He knows if he's dead his family would be safe from Gus. Jesse wouldn't hurt his family, so if he could get Jesse to kill him it's a way out for everyone.
This pretty much sums up my opinion of Season 4:
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 30, 2012, 02:50:32 AMSeason 4 had its slow passages, but it also had far more iconic scenes than any other season.
It had a lot of set up, but it also had a lot of payoff. I would put Salud, Face Off, and Crawl Space in the top 5-7 episodes, easily.
I actually agree that Season 2 is probably the best, but I think Season 4 (especially viewed as a whole season) is fairly close behind it. Season 5 will probably trump both of them.
Quote from: picolas on August 08, 2012, 10:05:23 PMi can't think of another tv character who has evolved so much from beginning to end. it's such a magnificent accomplishment.
I agree. The closest comparison I can think of is Jack from LOST. No, really... I made my case here:
MAJOR LOST SPOILERS
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 10, 2010, 07:08:23 PMIf you spent the show waiting for answers and forgot to watch the characters develop with the island, you basically missed the whole show. This is precisely why the end of Jack's story was so satisfying. It was the perfect way to consummate his relationship with the island. And seriously, his character arc alone constitutes its own epic story. He went from the short-tempered man of science to the brooding/tortured introvert to the man of faith who believes in destiny and saves the island.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 10, 2010, 07:08:23 PMI described before how perfectly planned and executed his whole character arc is. Phase 1: Reluctant leader and chronic skeptic ("man of science") with a short temper, hero complex, and daddy issues manifested as intense episodes of self-doubt. This character is so good to begin with that he doesn't even need an arc. Phase 2: Complete wreck off-island, full of regret, tortured about how wrong he was, guilty about Locke's death, realizes his gung-ho rescue antics had not saved his friends, that in fact he had violated and reversed destiny. Phase 3: Wanting to turn things around, but not sure how (he knows he can't simply "fix" things), Jack lies low with some seriously extensive brooding and introspection in Dharmaville. Phase 4: After five seasons of psychological torment, he has worked out his issues and believes in destiny. Guided by Jacob's gentle prodding and Locke's ideals, Jack realizes his entire metaphysical potential, saving the island in a pure act of self-sacrifice and faith. His story then concludes with the happiest, most fulfilling death one could possibly imagine.
good call. jack's close. and i doubt there are any other candidates because we're in a new era of television where shows can afford to be super-serialized. (that is assuming soap characters are off the table.)
Crawl Space is definitely one of the best eps ever. i will give season 4 a second chance with fresh eyes when i rewatch the series.
Does Breaking Bad stream free anywhere online?
I had to get Dish, and there is no AMC right now.
I love how they did that cold open. You know the whole episode what's coming, yet they still managed to make it shocking. That wave was haunting shit.
This fucking show
Quote from: ©brad on August 12, 2012, 10:37:56 PM
This fucking show
Good catch for JB realizing Lydia couldn't have planting that device herself. Good for Jesse for becoming the idea man. To end a great heist like that is... I can't think of anything but to describe it as ballsy. It would have been enough just to have ended the show with them celebrating. The whole time during the heist I was thinking "something always goes wrong. There is always a hiccup in the plan." I thought the "good Samaritan" was it and totally forgot about the boy hearing the train. I definitely didn't think he would have been shot. The stakes are crazier for the crew now. You can't pull off a perfect heist anymore with no one getting hurt. Damn. I have no idea how they're going to handle this.
Yeah, the train whistle at the end of the teaser was a pretty obvious clue, so once they planned to rob a train you knew what was coming. But personally, that sort of enhanced my excitement.
When that scene actually arrived, honestly in the moment I thought they would be faced with this complex moral dilemma and possibly take the kid hostage while they decided what to do, like Lost or The Walking Dead. But of course Breaking Bad wouldn't do that. Because that's not original or surprising enough, and because this is the season of high stakes and Full Heisenberg.
I think what made that scene great was Todd. They could have had Walt do it, but that would be too obvious, and it would be jumping the gun a bit in episode 5 of 16. No, what makes the scene great is this background character who was slyly portrayed as this cheerful all-American kid who's eager to impress and seems to just be along for the ride. Then we see him, virtually without hesitation, pull out his gun (which we didn't know he had) and take care of business, and we discover how hardcore he is... but more to the point, exactly how dark this world is that Walt and Jesse find themselves in.
I love that one of their greatest victories has to be tainted with darkness, especially in the way that it must crush Jesse, who was virtually bursting with childlike glee pulling off this fun train heist. I'm sure he's going to have some guilt because of the overarching irony here, which is that his pacifist plan resulted in tragedy. His illusion that they can continue their business within some kind of acceptable moral framework must surely be crumbling now.
Of course the most interesting question now is how Jesse will react. This has been the longest stretch of episodes for a long time (or perhaps ever) in which Jesse and Walt have peacefully cooperated, so technically it's about time for some conflict between them. I'm sure they'd give him some time off for brooding and introspection, but Jesse will be getting pressure to continue cooking from Walt (because it's part of his plan) and Mike (to pay off his guys).
Lydia's attempted hit on Mike actually appealed to Walt. Mike was right, that girl is trouble, you could see it in the way she demanded money for her involvement. Her exchange with Walt reminded me of Walt's exchanges with Gus in Season 3, only reversed.
You've also got to give credit to Walt's brilliant plan to "awkward" Hank out of his office. That's the closest he'll come to a therapy session, and he played it so well that you felt like some part of him meant everything he said.
Quote from: ddiggler on August 13, 2012, 01:16:11 AMThat's the closest he'll come to a therapy session, and he played it so well that you felt like some part of him meant everything he said.
mild interpretation spoiler from the podcastIn the podcast, Vince mentions that this was a debate in the writer's room... and suggests that at least some of that anguish comes from a genuine place. That's also how I interpreted it. It's not like he's suddenly lost all of his humanity. (Not yet, at least.)
Even in the season opener extreme flash forward, we see Walt expressing what appears to be regret.
Holy shit, yes. What an episode of television. I was pretty convinced that Todd was going to turn out to be undercover law enforcement, but I guess that theory's out the damn window.
FYI they have a little spoiler section at the end of this week's podcast. So annoying. You have about 10 seconds warning, though. I skipped all of that. Otherwise, no spoilers before that in the podcast.
I have a strong feeling that the title of next week's episode is a major spoiler, so don't seek it out if you haven't heard it.
thinking or hoping for ONE SECOND that what is going to happen is NOT going to happen...that's Breaking Bad for ya.
"OMG he's still ALIVE after that explo--!!?!!! Nope, wait. His face is gone."
I thought the interesting part is that we see Jesse's (horrified) reaction but not Walt's reaction.
Quote from: modage on August 13, 2012, 09:13:34 AM
I thought the interesting part is that we see Jesse's (horrified) reaction but not Walt's reaction.
Walt turning a blind eye to killing kids, watch what happens when someone targets his own. THAT's when he'll bring out the firepower.
- What an ending! No show sucker punches you like this one. We go from cheering to gasping for air in the span of seconds. I saw a comment on AVClub that sums it up nicely:
"Me: I love seeing Jesse enjoy his victories. Magnets, a successful train heist, etc.
Vince Gilligan: Well fuck you."
- It's as testament to how thrilling that train heist was because I totally forgot about the kid until he showed up at the end. I know it was obvious to most of you smarter kids, but I was totally fooled.
- While we're on the heist, it was in my eyes the most beautifully shot sequence this show has ever done. So many classic western shots. It might have been the cheap trader joe's wine but I saw echos of Elswitt/CWBB in those tracking shots, the sunset, that one dissolve (first one in this show if memory serves?). Kudos to writer/first time director George Mastras. I haven't listened to the podcast yet but I love the confidence Vince has in his writing staff, having no issue letting a writer direct one of the biggest episodes production wise they've ever done.
- "It's all about the weight, yo."
- "You guys were about to murder me. I thought you were professionals."
Quote from: ©brad on August 13, 2012, 09:54:49 AM
- What an ending! No show sucker punches you like this one. We go from cheering to gasping for air in the span of seconds. I saw a comment on AVClub that sums it up nicely:
"Me: I love seeing Jesse enjoy his victories. Magnets, a successful train heist, etc.
Vince Gilligan: Well fuck you."
- It's as testament to how thrilling that train heist was because I totally forgot about the kid until he showed up at the end. I know it was obvious to most of you smarter kids, but I was totally fooled.
- While we're on the heist, it was in my eyes the most beautifully shot sequence this show has ever done. So many classic western shots. It might have been the cheap trader joe's wine but I saw echos of Elswitt/CWBB in those tracking shots, the sunset, that one dissolve (first one in this show if memory serves?). Kudos to writer/first time director George Mastras. I haven't listened to the podcast yet but I love the confidence Vince has in his writing staff, having no issue letting a writer direct one of the biggest episodes production wise they've ever done.
- "It's all about the weight, yo."
- "You guys were about to murder me. I thought you were professionals."
That dissolve was actually jarring to me. Which is a funny thing to say, but it's true.
After giving it some thought, I think the train whistle at the end of the teaser was too big a hint. Would have been fine without that whistle. I mean really, they cut to the title sequence immediately after that sound.
Also, I'm probably nitpicking, but I thought the Skyler content was fairly weak and clunky. And I don't understand why Walt agreed to her "deal."
The train heist and the end sort of make up for that, though.
I was going to complain about the "barely made it within one second" aspect of the train heist. Then I realized that's sort of the joke, overturning that action movie cliche with the final scene.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 13, 2012, 12:21:20 PM
After giving it some thought, I think the train whistle at the end of the teaser was too big a hint. Would have been fine without that whistle. I mean really, they cut to the title sequence immediately after that sound.
I loved that sound on second viewing! Again I forgot about the kid so obviously it affected me differently. I do love the idea of a viewer knowing at that moment the kid is doomed, but still being surprised as to how. I mean the ending still got you right?
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 13, 2012, 12:21:20 PM
Also, I'm probably nitpicking, but I thought the Skyler content was fairly weak and clunky. And I don't understand why Walt agreed to her "deal."
Yeah a lot of other people are making the same comment. I guess my only complaint would be it didn't advance that plotline at all. I did like Walt's "robbing a train" line. Actually I'm deciding that line redeemed the clunkiness.
Just watched the new episode. When it was over I had no words. I could barely move. I can't believe how great the storytelling is on this show. Genius level. Not since The Wire have I seen a show as good as this one is.
I don't even know where this show is going, but it's going to involve children. Most likely Walt's. I'm waiting for Skyler to find blue meth in Walt Jr's pocket while doing his laundry. The reason Walt started doing this in the first place was for his family, and then simply for his children. Now children are dying and are becoming a main focal point of the show. Lydia's child, Brock and Walt's children are all becoming main aspects of this show right now. I don't even want to think about what happens next because it's impossible to predict with the way this story is told.
Is it pretty obvious Todd planted the camera on the barrels? I knew he wasn't just going to be a bit character. Jesse Pleamons seems to be doing big things right now and I couldn't imagine him taking a bit role in this show. Then in the beginning when they recap him telling Walt about the camera in the house from a few episodes ago and then had his name in the opening credits, I couldn't wait to see what they did with his character. First I thought maybe he was an undercover cop, but that theory has gone out the window. I wonder who he is connected to. Mike? Maybe Saul turns out to be the mastermind. Wasn't he the one who got the moving crew in contact with Walt, Jesse and Mike?
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 13, 2012, 12:21:20 PM
After giving it some thought, I think the train whistle at the end of the teaser was too big a hint. Would have been fine without that whistle. I mean really, they cut to the title sequence immediately after that sound.
Also, I'm probably nitpicking, but I thought the Skyler content was fairly weak and clunky. And I don't understand why Walt agreed to her "deal."
I didn't even connect the train sound when it first happened. I figured it was unrelated and just showing that this kid is out in the middle of nowhere. And by the end of the episode and the heist scene, I had totally forgot about the kid and the opening until he's revealed. IN hindsight I guess it could be too much of a hint, but it was effective for my viewing.
And I think Walt agreed to her deal because it was different than her original deal where she was just going to send the kids away. Now she's letting them stay but making Walt promise that the second he doesn't feel safe anymore, she gets to take them as far away as possible. It's a compromise that will eventually go wrong because Walt always waits too long as is evidenced by the train heist scene, so he probably waits too long in telling Skyler to get the kids out of the house before shit hits the fan. Also Walt promised Lydia that he wouldn't kill her and he did it on his children's lives. If she gets offed, then his childrens lives obviously don't mean much to Walt anymore. Especially if Walt's the one who executes her.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 13, 2012, 12:21:20 PM
After giving it some thought, I think the train whistle at the end of the teaser was too big a hint. Would have been fine without that whistle. I mean really, they cut to the title sequence immediately after that sound.
I don't think it was too big of a hint. I thought it was pretty obvious he was going to show up (I even knew that once they shut the pump off, we would hear the motorcycle), but I think that's part of it. We're meant to know he's going to show up and we're meant to assume that there will be a long, moral discussion about what to do with the kid and then we get kicked in the face.
Quote from: S.R. on August 13, 2012, 01:39:19 PM
Is it pretty obvious Todd planted the camera on the barrels?
Do you mean the tracker? They answered who did it. It was a Houston agent.
Quote from: RegularKarate on August 13, 2012, 02:46:23 PM
Quote from: S.R. on August 13, 2012, 01:39:19 PM
Is it pretty obvious Todd planted the camera on the barrels?
Do you mean the tracker? They answered who did it. It was a Houston agent.
Yup. Forgot about that.
I had cbrad's viewing experience, starting with 'this fucking show' which is what I thought immediately after it ended, also having no memory of the kid until they turned off the pump and thinking oh shit.
what I wonder now is: will they dissolve the kid's body or what? or maybe they have another option I'm not seeing to not leave some trace of the body but at this point it seems their only option...
and the DEA's boss office is wired, poor Hank.
Quote from: S.R. on August 13, 2012, 01:48:49 PM
Also Walt promised Lydia that he wouldn't kill her and he did it on his children's lives. If she gets offed, then his childrens lives obviously don't mean much to Walt anymore. Especially if Walt's the one who executes her.
Walt never promised Lydia her life by swearing on the lives of his children. He told her:
You're a smart business woman. You understand the concept of leverage. You have none.(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNPy79.jpg&hash=b6d9a3d8da6f5540dee7b8d5368f2d8cafe10b7a)
I'm fine with it because of how great the ending was, but we're all willing to admit that everything about that train hiest was fairly ridiculous, right?
By ridiculous do you mean thrilling?
I didn't catch on to the train whistle in the teaser. When a show is as good at BB, I'm a very passive viewer. I'm usually shocked by every twist and turn cause I'm usually so enthralled by it I miss things like in the teaser. And it's the opposite when something is bad.
Man. This show has no love for children. They've killed one, shot another, put one in the hospital. It's so interesting to see where it goes from here. Jesse is going to be devastated and pissed. I wouldn't be surprised if he kills Todd right there. Todd is Jesse 2.0 or Jesse for Heisenberg.
I was waiting till Walt and Lydia met each other. I thought that was just a huge opportunity for humor. I think the two would clash. I expected to see some of those old walt looks like the ones he gave after Jesse said something stupid when dealing with her.
The only aspect of the heist that seemed ridiculous was that the train crew didn't hear anything that was going on behind them. Especially when Walt turned on the motor for the water pump. Out in the middle of nowhere, there's no way those guys wouldn't have heard that from where they were. Other than that, the heist seemed solid.
The generator bothered me, because they could've at least taken the time to get a quiet generator.
But on top of that...
-The train car they needed happened to stop right where they needed it.
-Maybe its just an urban legend or something, but I was under the impression that it takes freight trains like a mile to come to a stop.
-They somehow had knowledge of freight train tanks and how they work, including sizes of hose attachments, what levers to pull, what size drillbits to have, etc.
-The train crew didn't seem concerned at all that they had to stop their train, did they know they were in a "train deadzone"?
-Lydia is all of the sudden an expert on all of this because apparently its part of her job.
-Walt apparently didn't care if all sorts of dirt got in the methylamine.
-Their precise water measurement didn't really pan out...they didn't seem to be monitoring how much they were putting in, and a lot spilled out of the hose (the, knowing Breaking Bad, that could easily come back as a plot point).
In a show that usually pays such close attention to details, it just seemed odd...though yes, thrilling.
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 14, 2012, 04:38:58 PM
The generator bothered me, because they could've at least taken the time to get a quiet generator.
But on top of that...
-The train car they needed happened to stop right where they needed it.
-Maybe its just an urban legend or something, but I was under the impression that it takes freight trains like a mile to come to a stop.
-They somehow had knowledge of freight train tanks and how they work, including sizes of hose attachments, what levers to pull, what size drillbits to have, etc.
-The train crew didn't seem concerned at all that they had to stop their train, did they know they were in a "train deadzone"?
-Lydia is all of the sudden an expert on all of this because apparently its part of her job.
-Walt apparently didn't care if all sorts of dirt got in the methylamine.
-Their precise water measurement didn't really pan out...they didn't seem to be monitoring how much they were putting in, and a lot spilled out of the hose (the, knowing Breaking Bad, that could easily come back as a plot point).
In a show that usually pays such close attention to details, it just seemed odd...though yes, thrilling.
A lot of that is a result of compressing time more than usual this season. They don't show us all the work and research that went behind it. It's more interesting to see it in action anyway, so we get reveals during the action. It reminds me of the big heist in the first Mission: Impossible movie... they revealed nearly everything (logistics and such) as they were doing it.
Some of it is definitely unrealistic, but I think most of it is fine. I don't need to know how they learned about trains; I simply accept that they did. The writers and producers have to make a choice between boring us with the minutia and relying on a reasonable suspension of disbelief from the audience.
-The train car they needed happened to stop right where they needed it.
They did measurements, not all of which was shown, so I'm willing to buy this. I'm sure they got a bit lucky, but I think their hoses were long enough that the correct car stopping in the general area of the bridge would have been good enough. There also might have been several methylamine cars in succession (which is actually likely).
-Walt apparently didn't care if all sorts of dirt got in the methylamine.
This actually did bother me quite a bit. Maybe they have filters that take care of that. Or maybe it will become a plot point.
-Their precise water measurement didn't really pan out...they didn't seem to be monitoring how much they were putting in, and a lot spilled out of the hose (the, knowing Breaking Bad, that could easily come back as a plot point).
I'm not sure you're correct. What led you to believe they screwed up the water? There was some spillage, but Walt accounted for that as he said through dialogue. He started the water flow at a precise point so it would be as close as possible.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 14, 2012, 05:40:57 PM
-Their precise water measurement didn't really pan out...they didn't seem to be monitoring how much they were putting in, and a lot spilled out of the hose (the, knowing Breaking Bad, that could easily come back as a plot point).
I'm not sure you're correct. What led you to believe they screwed up the water? There was some spillage, but Walt accounted for that as he said through dialogue. He started the water flow at a precise point so it would be as close as possible.
Because when Landry threw the hose off the train water was still spraying out of it all over the place.
I guess I'd have an easier time believing everything if more than a few days had gone by since the last episode. I can't stop noticing how much gets done in such little time. Another example: they apparently travel back and forth to/from Houston like its nothing (and with at least one pistol on them).
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 14, 2012, 05:40:57 PM
-Walt apparently didn't care if all sorts of dirt got in the methylamine.
This actually did bother me quite a bit. Maybe they have filters that take care of that. Or maybe it will become a plot point.
I don't usually notice or bothered by details like that but I did notice that one as well. I probably would have ignored it if it wasn't so easily remedied by placing some sort of pipe so that the opening isn't level with the ground/dirt. The writers are usually on top of that. I just wrote it off as Walt is now the boss and no longer the master chief/artist so he couldn't care less about the purity of his product. Maybe accidental but it does kinda show the difference between Walt and Gus. Gus would have been upset about the contamination while Walt only sees the end product. Also, they mentioned how all that water would only dilute the methylamine only a small amount so a couple of handfuls of dirt couldn't do too much damage I wouldn't think.
This coming Sunday's episode. :yabbse-lipsrsealed:
Quote from: Brando on August 14, 2012, 08:36:17 PMI don't usually notice or bothered by details like that but I did notice that one as well. I probably would have ignored it if it wasn't so easily remedied by placing some sort of pipe so that the opening isn't level with the ground/dirt. The writers are usually on top of that. I just wrote it off as Walt is now the boss and no longer the master chief/artist so he couldn't care less about the purity of his product. Maybe accidental but it does kinda show the difference between Walt and Gus. Gus would have been upset about the contamination while Walt only sees the end product. Also, they mentioned how all that water would only dilute the methylamine only a small amount so a couple of handfuls of dirt couldn't do too much damage I wouldn't think.
Great points. I imagine had the dirt issue been brought up in the podcast, they would have laughed it off and said something exactly like that.
It's absolutely true, and interesting, that Walt's rise to power coincides with increased carelessness. There's the whole "I won" attitude primarily causing it, which is the obvious point, but I think there's more to it.
Walt required precision, caution, and obsessiveness for these things in the past:
- Starting out in the business, making a name for himself by achieving the best possible product
- Carefully learning how to not get caught
- Defending his territory
- Gaining Gus's attention and respect
- Proving himself valuable enough to stay alive
That's all in the past, so he probably feels like he doesn't have much left to prove. He's not entirely careless, but he's only interested in being cautious
enough. His attitude with the train heist was pretty much "eh, let's give it a shot." Season 2 Walt would be trembling on the floor in an OCD fever at the prospect.
It's as if his pride was initially manifested in cooking the best product in the world and being proud of that, but now his pride is manifested in generalized near-megalomania.
The show has always involved children, or at least used them in some way to surprise and shock us into considering the actual consequences of Walt's path.
- The idea that a baby was coming into his life always left me on edge, and still does now that Holly's around
- Jesse's little brother revealed to be the one possessing a j
- the omnipresent season 2 pink teddy bear
- Andrea's nephew who shot combo
- The little meth-heads' kid
- Brock and lily of the valley
- The boy on the dirtbike
Not sure if it's JUST this season involving kids, because we've seen children integrated since season 1
Yeah kids man. Victims of Walt's wrath continue to extend far beyond the gangsters he's had to kill.
I felt the scene with Hank holding Holly was very telling. I forgot his exact line but it's something to the extent of "I'm not giving you back!" I'm predicting something bad happening to Holly, and definitely to Skyler.
Quote from: modage on August 14, 2012, 09:25:03 PM
This coming Sunday's episode. :yabbse-lipsrsealed:
:yabbse-grin:
Quote from: ©brad on August 15, 2012, 12:12:50 PMI'm predicting something bad happening to Holly, and definitely to Skyler.
Yeah, this will be one of the most interesting developments of the season for sure. With Holly, they're going to have to step through a minefield of gimmickry and cliche, which is going to be very hard. I can't wait to see what they come up with.
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 14, 2012, 04:38:58 PM
-Their precise water measurement didn't really pan out...they didn't seem to be monitoring how much they were putting in, and a lot spilled out of the hose (the, knowing Breaking Bad, that could easily come back as a plot point).
I rewatched it. They were filling up the tank with water while explaining to Todd the plan. Walt said the amount of water needed to replace the methylamine then told Jesse to put more in to account for spillage and water left in the hose.
Also, Hank asks Walt Jr. if he wants to watch Heat with him and Holly and Marie. Walt watches Scarface with the family and Hank watches Heat. Totally different movies but both bad guys die in the end in a gun fight.
Quote from: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on August 14, 2012, 09:56:41 PM
The show has always involved children, or at least used them in some way to surprise and shock us into considering the actual consequences of Walt's path.
- The idea that a baby was coming into his life always left me on edge, and still does now that Holly's around
- Jesse's little brother revealed to be the one possessing a j
- the omnipresent season 2 pink teddy bear
- Andrea's nephew who shot combo
- The little meth-heads' kid
- Brock and lily of the valley
- The boy on the dirtbike
Not sure if it's JUST this season involving kids, because we've seen children integrated since season 1
Forgot about Jesse's brother and the meth-head's kid. It's subtle but they wove the children element throughout the entire series. I mean it's not hitting you over the head with it.
GAMEOFTHRONES SOILER Game of Thrones doesn't treat children all that well either. At least Walt hasn't murdered an infant in front of her mother.
FINALLY, a man named Walter White was arrested in Alabama for cooking meth. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/08/real-life-walter-white-not-breaking-bad-wanted-for-meth/ (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/08/real-life-walter-white-not-breaking-bad-wanted-for-meth/) There was also a story a while back of the professor at BU was caught cooking meth.
Quote from: Brando on August 17, 2012, 04:11:15 PM
Also, Hank asks Walt Jr. if he wants to watch Heat with him and Holly and Marie. Walt watches Scarface with the family and Hank watches Heat. Totally different movies but both bad guys die in the end in a gun fight.
Heat's ending makes so much more sense for this show than Scarface's. I could totally see Hank holding hands with a dying Walt after shooting him (not that they would do that, it just fits the tone of the show better)
I thought the teaser was great. After last week's ending, I was so shocked by what happened I really didn't think it over cause I was focusing on the "wow did that just fucking happen?" Watching them silently take apart the bike then digging up the kid made me think of the kid's death and how his family will never know what happened to him. It was really powerful. So many crazed Walt moments. His whistling, the dinner scene, burning his fucking hand, and that look he gives Mike when he has the gun to his head. Having a gun to his doesn't phase him anymore.
Walt cooking out on his own is it. Jesse has been his moral compass for a while now keeping him from doing too horrible of things. Mike kept his power and ego in check. Walt is going to be completely lost with those two no longer involved in the business. Todd is going going to replace Jesse as his side kick. Todd can only get crazier cause I think the only reason the writers had him keep the spider was to show he's nuts.
Quote from: ddiggler on August 18, 2012, 10:52:02 AM
Quote from: Brando on August 17, 2012, 04:11:15 PM
Also, Hank asks Walt Jr. if he wants to watch Heat with him and Holly and Marie. Walt watches Scarface with the family and Hank watches Heat. Totally different movies but both bad guys die in the end in a gun fight.
Heat's ending makes so much more sense for this show than Scarface's. I could totally see Hank holding hands with a dying Walt after shooting him (not that they would do that, it just fits the tone of the show better)
Each movie's tone fits the character and how they see themselves. Walt will always see his story the same as Scarface or as the hero going out in a blaze of glory.
That dinner scene was the funniest thing this show has done to date. Jesse's delivery of this line was perfect:
"You know, my kids aren't around anymore."
"Thank GOD."
This is one of the first episodes in a while where I found myself almost rooting for Walt again. Revealing some of the backstory of what happened at Gray Matter provided context as to what's really driving him.
My predictions:
- We're not done with bad things happening to kids (look out Holly)
- Mike will not survive this season
Quote from: ©brad on August 20, 2012, 10:31:36 AM
"You know, my kids aren't around anymore."
"Thank GOD."
Ha. I remember Walt's line but I missed Jesse's "Thank god." That scene was so awkward. Walt sitting there with that silent stare, Skyler talking about her affair, and Jesse doing his best. I really loved the ending to that scene. Walt telling Jesse he was taking away the only thing he has left. It shows he's given up on Skyler but will never give up cooking meth. The man is giving everything he has including burning himself and having guns pointed at him to keep his "empire." He's not doing a thing to try and save his marriage and kids. It does seem that Holly will be put in the middle somehow. I see Hank and Marie getting custody of Holly and raising her.
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This was definitely Walt's episode. His turn from impotence to omnipotence was very exciting.
Mostly, I want to know what Walt's plan is. Here's what Jesse says:
"Mr. White's got an idea. Mike, I'm serious, it's a great idea! Look, you get your 5 million, we both do, and he gets his methylamine. Just hear him out!"
It just doesn't make sense. Walt can't create 10 million dollars out of thin air. Does it involve stealing from Lydia? Or Gray Matter? If Jesse is so persuaded, it can't involve a crazy heist or hurting people, right? Assuming this is good, the writers need to be given some kind of special plotting award for thinking of it.
I sort of want to think Todd is Walt's new partner, but probably not. Mostly because it would be the easy/obvious choice, and Breaking Bad never does that. Also, Jesse Plemons is still credited as a guest star. I see him keeping his role with the exterminators, and if there's something more, it will only be occasional.
My other favorite moments from the episode:
- The whistling. Could qualify for iconic scene status.
- Seeing the dead kid's hand revealed in the dirt. So creepy. The dirt bike disassembly made me forget about his body.
I actually love the Gray Matter story from this episode, it feels like the writers set up this story all the way from Season 1.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 21, 2012, 12:07:18 AM
- Seeing the dead kid's hand revealed in the dirt. So creepy. The dirt bike disassembly made me forget about his body.
Such a brutal fake-out. You think they're just going to show them dissolving the dirt bike and leave the kid implied, then Todd digs down to the hand, and it hits you right in the gut. It's like the eye-cutting scene in Un Chien Andalou.
Donna Bowman at the AV Club predicts there will be some kind of knockoff meth or that Walt will change the color of his meth to let the 2/3 deal go through. I'm skeptical.
Also, on a tangent... I like her reviews, but pretty much every time she quotes dialogue, she gets it wrong. It's grating after a while.
Feel the same way about her. Lately AVClub reviews are nothing more than plot recaps which I also hate. You generally have to weed through the comments to find anything insightful.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 21, 2012, 12:52:53 AM
Donna Bowman at the AV Club predicts there will be some kind of knockoff meth or that Walt will change the color of his meth to let the 2/3 deal go through. I'm skeptical.
Yeah, that doesn't make sense because it was specifically stated that there couldn't be any 2/3rd deal... they said it was all or nothing.
I guess they could try the changing of the meth color, but I don't see them convincing the buyers that he won't make any more meth.
great episode.
- I'm guessing Walt's AK47 is to protect himself from the methylamine buyers, still IF that's the reason it doesn't seem enough to be protected by himself from an entire drug organization.
- also, I'm guessing that if Walt's ego lets him see beyond his ambition of having an ''empire business'', he could eventually give the divorce or aloud Skyler to separate from him so she and the kids can be safer from the trouble that's coming.
- wonder if the kids murder will eventually have consequences, apparently they didn't leave any trace, unless Todd keeps the jar with the kid's finger prints, if he keeps it that's the only connection with the murder; well there's also the gun, but Mike should have taken it from Todd to get rid of it, btw, i don't remember seeing it when they dissolved the bike.
- Walt is truly transformed now, I know its redundant to say it, but when he let Jesse's girl die with her own vomit he was really affected, and now with the kid he didn't show any regret.
I am really itching to know what the plan is. I keep thinking it's some crazy risky thing, but then I bump up against Jesse being so persuaded and even enthusiastic about it.
Todd keeping the jar leaves a loose end out there, but Todd is probably smart enough to wipe the jar of fingerprints.
I actually saw a decent amount of sadness in Walt during the teaser. You could also see it a bit in his immediate reaction to the shooting last week. He's not crying or anything, but I don't think he enjoys getting kids killed, and I don't think he's entirely emotionally indifferent to it.
PODCAST INTERPRETATION WARNING
I was glad to hear them agree with my interpretation in the podcast. Vince and the writers generally believe that Walt still has some humanity left. Also I don't think it's a mystery or a secret... if you look closely you can tell Cranston is sort of trying to play "somewhat sad but totally accepting."
All I could watch was the baby sucking on that choking hazard of a bracelet.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 21, 2012, 02:24:08 PM
I actually saw a decent amount of sadness in Walt during the teaser. You could also see it a bit in his immediate reaction to the shooting last week. He's not crying or anything, but I don't think he enjoys getting kids killed, and I don't think he's entirely emotionally indifferent to it.
never thought he could enjoy killing kids, but that he didnt showed any emotions (I wrote regret, my bad), maybe he hides them too well now.
and I think he has them, actually thats why Im guessing he eventually (if he comes to his senses) will leave Skyler off the hook.
That's fair. I think the last time he expressed a decent amount of real compassion was when he learned that Brock would be okay. Much of that was relief that it had gone as planned, but I think he also felt some relief on a human level.
Since then, this is the closest he's come... but he definitely throttled his emotion before it got the best of him.
Also compare this to the extreme anguish he experienced when Jane was dying, and you see the difference.
Walt did seem to have honest remorse over the kids death although it didn't last long. He never even considered stopping or never cooking again. He was shocked when both Mike and Jesse said they were out. It's as he said at the end of episode four, nothing stops this train or cook. All he cares about is the next cook.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 21, 2012, 02:24:08 PM
I am really itching to know what the plan is. I keep thinking it's some crazy risky thing, but then I bump up against Jesse being so persuaded and even enthusiastic about it.
I keep thinking about it trying to see if I can guess what these writers have come up with. I agree, It's hard to see Jesse and Mike who;s being followed by the DEA would try something as risky as the train heist. So it has to be without major risk yet effective while getting at least 10 million in cash.
I also realized this is Walt's first plan/scheme of the season or since the poisoning of Brock plan. While he had a huge part in planning both the magnet and train they were both Jesse's ideas.
EDIT: I just remembered that the bugging of Hank's office and having Lydia call was Walt's idea. I keep thinking about Walt burning his hand to get free. The guy is a rat. You corner the rat he will chew his whole hand off to get away.
Spoilers.
As soon as I saw Walt open Mike's go bag with the gun on top, I had a bad feeling Walt was going to kill him. Such a "peaceful" ending to an episode. A moment of silence for one of the show's best characters. Since Half Measures, he has been glue for this show. I don't know that there's much to root for now. We see how Walt is alone. His scenes with Todd are so empty and bittersweet. He really is estranged from everyone. Todd is simple. I was reminded a bit of Of Mice and Men with this ending, though in hindsight it doesn't really fit. Just the atmosphere and the "let me die in peace" line rang true. I guess, though, as soon as we saw the huge deposit box of money for his granddaughter, we could pretty much assume Mike was through -- even before the go bag.
Walt has very little street smarts and his ego has gotten far out of control. We've all said this episodes and episodes ago, but it comes more true with each passing event, and each mistake he makes where he narrowly escapes, masquerading as luck and ingenuity. Genius in science doesn't equal genius in cause and effect, in human relations, and that of course is Walt's prime failing. He's horrible at reading people, and knowing his place in the hierarchies of society. There's a bittersweet taste going into the final episode of this season. Mike's gone, Jesse's out, his wife won't talk to him, and he never talks to his son. It's clear now how he gets to where he's shone at the beginning of the season, but what else is there left to root for?
Spoilers...
Can't believe that there are only 9 episodes left in the entire series. I was thinking about it when the DEA finally got a break, but of course they had to. There is nobody left but them and Walt against each other now.
Haven't been this anxious about the end of a season since the 3rd season finale of Lost. Can't believe there is only one episode and then wait a year.
Makes me think of the first minute of this season, when Walt shows up with hair and stuff. That is obviously still far away, so unlikely that we'll see a resolution of that in the next episode.
ALSO, forgot to mention... the beginning of this episode... SAY MY NAME... You're goddamned right!
Quote from: ono on August 26, 2012, 10:15:54 PM
I don't know that there's much to root for now.
Quote from: ono on August 26, 2012, 10:15:54 PM
but what else is there left to root for?
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Of course Walt's brilliant solution had to be some kind of messed up thing that would not actually deliver what he promised. And of course, it had to be something with massive consequences written all over it...
Mike tells Walt to leave town, but Walt is now tied down with a new distributor. He thinks he put them in their place and established dominance, but really, they could dispatch him at any time, take his methylamine, get their money back, kill his family. As shown in the teaser, Walt sees himself as some kind of invincible Western outlaw, but he has no power behind him, no henchmen, absolutely no one who would take revenge if something happened to him. Everyone, including Saul, would probably breath a sigh of relief that the timebomb has stopped ticking. Walt is possibly in a weaker position now than he was in Season 4. Taking that money was a huge mistake.
Can we confidently predict that Episode 1's flash forward involves a confrontation with the new distributor? It seems likely, but maybe that would be too obvious. And when is this giant time leap going to happen?
Also in the speculation department, I wonder how Walt will be reacting to Mike's death. At the moment he seems humbled and embarrassed, but will he take a turn toward caution? Obviously the next episode will involve Lydia... will he tell her? And it's funny, now that Mike is gone, Walt has to clean up this crime scene himself.
That teaser was one of the best I can remember. It was so surreal and outrageous building to the "say my name" exchange and it shouldn't have worked, but wow does it work. Season 5 is already rivaling Season 4 in the iconic scene tally.
I was really impressed with Aaron Paul this episode, and the character of Jesse in general. His complex and incremental emotional reactions to Walt's betrayal were so spot-on and rang so true.
Side note, check out the massive spoiler (http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad) (for this episode) plastered across the Breaking Bad webpage. Classy. And just below that image they have behind-the-scenes clips tagged with spoiler warnings.
I agree that we can always root for Hank and Jesse. At the same time, I think rooting for characters is an overrated endeavor with this show at this point. Personally, I'm sort of rooting for things to further unravel in a spectacularly tragic fashion, because it will be dark and painful and glorious.
Jonathan Banks says goodbye (http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/contains-spoilers-making-of-episode-507-say-my-name-inside-breaking-bad)
SPOILER
The "shut up walt, let me die in peace." line was fitting end to a great character. Up to his final breath, he still had to put walt in his place. Walt was trying to apologize realizing his mistake but not understanding moment and making it about him until Mike gives his final great liner.
Mike was a great character and I'm going to miss him. I loved his complete professionalism in all things along with his soft side for his granddaughter. When he's trying to decide to leave his granddaughter on the swing and run or give up was heartbreaking. They didn't do much cause they didn't need it cause we know how much he cares for his granddaughter so just watching him trying to decide was one of the saddest moments of the entire show. I also cant help but think back when Mike was going to kill Lydia. She was more upset over her daughter not knowing what happened to her than being killed. It's now the fate that has befallen Mike. His granddaughter will never know what happened to him other than he took her to the park one day and left her. I can't think of a sadder moment in the series.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 27, 2012, 02:36:09 AM
Can we confidently predict that Episode 1's flash forward involves a confrontation with the new distributor? It seems likely, but maybe that would be too obvious.
It's the best prediction we can make at the moment. I could see everyone around Walt abandoning him then he gets pushed out by his new partners leaving him to get some Ramboesque revenge.
SPOILER REFERRING TO SOMETHING VINCE GILLIGAN SAID BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN ABOUT THIS SEASON
SPOILERIn an interview before the season began, Vince Gilligan said Walt did something this season that he could no longer be on Walt's side. This has to be it. There was no reason for him to kill Mike. Mike just hurt his ego and it didn't have anything to do with the 8 other guy's name.
Quote from: Brando on August 27, 2012, 09:49:56 AM
SPOILER REFERRING TO SOMETHING VINCE GILLIGAN SAID BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN ABOUT THIS SEASONSPOILER
In an interview before the season began, Vince Gilligan said Walt did something this season that he could no longer be on Walt's side. This has to be it. There was no reason for him to kill Mike. Mike just hurt his ego and it didn't have anything to do with the 8 other guy's name.
we really have no idea yet. there are still 9 episodes to go, which is a lifetime for Breaking Bad.
Quote from: cine on August 27, 2012, 10:03:24 AM
Quote from: Brando on August 27, 2012, 09:49:56 AM
SPOILER REFERRING TO SOMETHING VINCE GILLIGAN SAID BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN ABOUT THIS SEASONSPOILER
In an interview before the season began, Vince Gilligan said Walt did something this season that he could no longer be on Walt's side. This has to be it. There was no reason for him to kill Mike. Mike just hurt his ego and it didn't have anything to do with the 8 other guy's name.
we really have no idea yet. there are still 9 episodes to go, which is a lifetime for Breaking Bad.
SPOILER REFERRING TO SOMETHING VINCE GILLIGAN SAID BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN ABOUT THIS SEASON
SPOILERI keep thinking of it as two seasons instead of one broken up into two parts. That quote was a few weeks before season five began so he had to be referring to these first eight. I'm not sure of how much the writers had tackled the second eight episode at that time. It also would be strange for him to tease the second half of the season instead of the upcoming season. I should clarify it wasn't a big spoiler he was giving. He just said he could always see things from Walt's perspective and understand his justifications for his actions. He could have been referring to Walt wanting to start cooking again after all the things that happened for not seeing things Walt's way anymore. I just don't think there is any justification for killing Mike so thought that's what Vince was talking about.
the obnoxious camera on the dude's arm as he was putting money in the deposit boxes.. LOW point of the season.
everything else.. top notch.
continue with your spoiler discussion that i'm never going to read. anyway, in general response to the idea being discussed.. walt has been unforgivable almost the whole season. everything he does turns him into more of a monster. the transformation has long been complete as far as i'm concerned.
the rest of the show needs to drive it head-on over the edge of tragedy thereby cementing it as the best dramatic show to bridge the post-wire pre-GoT dead zone.
Watching this show has almost become masochistic. I feel a gnawing sense of dread at what's to come like never before. The fun is over. We're no longer rooting for an anti-hero to get away. There was nothing subversively fun about that meth montage (which I'll get to in a sec). Along with Mike and eventually Walt and whoever else, we as viewers are now being punished for reveling in the thrill of all the despicable madness from seasons past.
- Am I the only one who found the cold open unintentionally funny? Badass sure, but slightly goofy and such obvious bait for us fanboys. I did get goosebumps so I don't really know what I'm complaining about here.
- The meth montage felt superfluous and uninpsired in comparison to the others. Cue the cool song, let's cook some meth! We've seen this so many times on the show before (and done way better) I wish those 60-odd seconds were spent elsewhere. Also the peppy song choice seemed out of place in an otherwise dreadful episode.
Quote from: Pubrick on August 27, 2012, 11:30:20 AM
the obnoxious camera on the dude's arm as he was putting money in the deposit boxes.. LOW point of the season.
As gratuitous and pointless as that POV shot of the shovel in season 4 when Jesse prompts that methhead to dig holes. I think the cinematography on this show will go down as the best in TV history, and I have no problem with show-off shots, but sometimes they go a step too far. Minor beef though.
Okay, now all the awesome:
- That final scene left me nauseous, and it solidified Jesse's point; this shit will never stop. The frailty of Walt's/the American male's ego is truly sickening.
- Kudos to Johnathan Banks for his heartbreaking performance at the playground. As Brando pointed out it was a brilliant callback to that equally suspenseful scene with Lydia.
- What do we make of the prolonged beat between Jesse and Skylar in the carwash, when she walks away, turns back and stares at him? Are they silently bonding over all the Walt bullshit they've had to put up with?
- I'm racking my brain as to how Hank will ultimately find out about Walt. What is that scene going to look like? The writers have their work cut out for them!
Quote from: ©brad on August 27, 2012, 02:52:52 PM
- The meth montage felt superfluous and uninpsired in comparison to the others. Cue the cool song, let's cook some meth! We've seen this so many times on the show before (and done way better) I wish those 60-odd seconds were spent elsewhere. Also the peppy song choice seemed out of place in an otherwise dreadful episode.
I didn't put it together until you mentioned it but I think the montage was supposed to be dull. Like you've said we've seen it done so many times and way better but this time it reflects Walt's mood. Although Todd did a pretty good job and looked very enthusiastic I think Walt missed Jesse. Walt's mood throughout the cook sorta reflected the "uninspired" montage.
Quote from: ©brad on August 27, 2012, 02:52:52 PM
- What do we make of the prolonged beat between Jesse and Skylar in the carwash, when she walks away, turns back and stares at him? Are they silently bonding over all the Walt bullshit they've had to put up with?
I don't know what Skyler thinks of Jesse. I don't know if she blames him or feels he has to put up with his shit too. I do think Jesse feels bad for Skyler. He can see how much she is hurting. Probably seeing what sticking around has done to Skyler is making it easier for Jesse to leave.
Quote from: ©brad on August 27, 2012, 02:52:52 PM
- I'm racking my brain as to how Hank will ultimately find out about Walt. What is that scene going to look like? The writers have their work cut out for them!
There was an odd shot when Hank came back into his office with coffee for Walt. It was angled just like a security camera.
i loved the hand pov. i didn't find it obnoxious. it emphasized how deft he was at his job, down to his fingers.
I'm ready to predict that Hank finds out about Walt next episode and the final 8 episodes will be their long-awaited cat and mouse showdown. What do you guys think? There's really nowhere else the show can go now, save some inevitable battles with Walt's new distribution partners and figuring out what to do with Mike's 9 guys.
I'm also ready to be proven completely wrong.
I don't know if they'd try to fit that into the next episode. Maybe. It just seems like they would give Hank the honor of figuring it out incrementally, rather than handing him some sudden revelation. He obviously realized something was fishy when he searched Mike's house, so that could be the beginning of it. Maybe Episode 8 will just give him a big step toward Walt. Something akin to discovering the Pollos Hermanos stuff in Gale's apartment.
Last week, I was going to post my predictions to Walt's "everybody wins" plan and I'm glad I didn't. I wasn't even close. There has to be some time inbetween Hank finding out about Walt cooking and before he finds out Walt has completely lost it. I doubt Hank will go as far as Skyler as trying to help him not get caught but he will probably have the same reaction as Skyler believing Walt is a victim. The scene I want to see is the "I'm the one who knocks" scene between Walt and Hank.
I think Hank would have a chance to realize how Walt has duped him. That combined with the enraging fact that Walt was right in front of him the whole time, and he's not going to be happy. I don't see much room for compassion when we get to that point, and there would be little room for excuses. I can see Hank uttering the line "no more stories" or something like that. He would try to arrest Walt or incapacitate him or shoot him, depending on the circumstance. Or maybe he's pursuing the man he knows to be Heisenberg, and in some sort of confrontation discovers it's Walt. Whatever they come up with is going to be great.
But I think Walt ultimately kills Hank. I don't see it happening any other way. Hank goes out a hero, and Walt descends deeper.
I think Hank would have to find out incrementally, unless Skyler comes out with all of it. Even if, say, there was a camera in Hank's office that captured Walt removing the bugs, Hank would never be able to make the leap to Walt being Heisenberg. Same goes for him finding out Walt is the cook making blue meth. When you really think about it, its kind of ridiculous how much Walt and Jesse have accomplished with such a small outfit, how could Hank ever piece that together ? All though Walter would be too proud to go down for anything other than kingpin. I want Hank to find out by the end of this next episode though, I really do. From the beginning this show has always been about Hank being right on their tails. Think of all the close calls they've had...Hank showing up at Tuco's, Hank being right outside the trailer in the junkyard...its about time it turns into a full fledged battle.
That being said, I think they must also be setting up this Phoenix crew as a drug war coming Walt's way, for which he isn't remotely prepared. They took his deal way too easily considering the whole reason they wanted the 1000 gallons of methylamine was to get the blue meth off the market. Do I really want to live in a world without coca-cola? If I'm Pepsi, hell yes I do. One of Walter's biggest strengths in the meth world was his anonymity, and he and his giant ego threw that all away when he bragged about being best cook in the world AND the one who killed Gus. Heisenberg's got a target on his back.
Sidenote: could one of the Phoenix guys be a DEA agent?
What's Walt's next step? Dealing with Mike's nine guys. Who's got the DEA keeping an eye on anything that happens to them? Mike's nine guys.
I doubt Hank will find out about Walt in this next episode, but he's certainly going to end up hot on Walt's trail.
what I wonder is how will Jesse react to mike's death.
he will be mad to say the least, but it's also a huge red flag that he needs to get out for real, because there is no positive outcome by being around Walt anymore.
Quote from: polkablues on August 28, 2012, 02:24:53 PM
What's Walt's next step? Dealing with Mike's nine guys. Who's got the DEA keeping an eye on anything that happens to them? Mike's nine guys.
I doubt Hank will find out about Walt in this next episode, but he's certainly going to end up hot on Walt's trail.
That seems most likely. The problem of the nine guys is what they set up in the first episode of this season and been dealt with throughout so it'll probably be what Walt deals with in the next episode. The new partnership will probably dominate the last eight episodes.
Quote from: Fernando on August 28, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
what I wonder is how will Jesse react to mike's death.
he will be mad to say the least, but it's also a huge red flag that he needs to get out for real, because there is no positive outcome by being around Walt anymore.
I really doubt Jesse will ever know what happened to Mike unless his body found by someone.
Quote from: polkablues on August 28, 2012, 02:24:53 PMWhat's Walt's next step? Dealing with Mike's nine guys. Who's got the DEA keeping an eye on anything that happens to them? Mike's nine guys.
Are we sure? If Hank's boss thought surveilling Mike was too much, I doubt they've had surveillance on a bunch of other people. But maybe they will now that they've cracked the lawyer and have momentum on the case. I actually hope you're right, because that would be a fun way to set the pursuit in motion.
[This is NOT really a podcast interpretation spoiler, so don't skip it...] In the podcast, they indirectly bring up this issue and make a very interesting point — people get away with things all the time because police have other priorities or lack the budget to look into absolutely everything. Kelley Dixon essentially ridiculed some viewers for being obsessed with every loose end or every piece of evidence that might have been left behind, because in the real world things actually fall through the cracks. They gave the impression that it's sort of a philosophy of the show.
Perhaps of greater concern: Aren't some of the nine guys incarcerated? How on earth does Walt deal with that?
Quote from: Fernando on August 28, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
what I wonder is how will Jesse react to mike's death.
He may not find out. Maybe never, maybe not for a while. For now, how would anyone know that Mike died? He wanted to disappear.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 28, 2012, 04:05:42 PM
Perhaps of greater concern: Aren't some of the nine guys incarcerated? How on earth does Walt deal with that?
Todd has hook ups in prison. So it's possible.
Ooo, good catch. That's definitely going to come into play.
Dang. This will be good.
Nine Guys, Nine Episodes left
I'm guessing modage will say this about this Sunday's episode:
:shock:
:yabbse-cry:
:bravo:
Educational short film about menstruation from 1974 starring Mike Ehrmantraut himself, Jonathan Banks (he first shows up a little more than a minute in).
twitter.com/kayleeehrms (http://twitter.com/kayleeehrms)
This is all I could think of while reading that..
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Betsy Brandt on the evolution of her character
http://www.avclub.com/articles/breaking-bads-betsy-brandt-on-the-evolution-of-her,84423/
I had a thought yesterday about Jesse. What's the one way for him to truly be out? If Walt's gone, finally leaving him the hell alone. How does he accomplish that, and get free? If Walt gets caught without him, Walt might take him down. So, instead, Jesse brings his information to Hank in exchange for immunity and they work together to bring him down. Any number of those three people die in a final confrontation. I think Jesse finding out that Walt killed Mike is the turning point, the catalyst Jesse needs to see how this can't end well AND he might need to do something drastic like this to stop it. Maybe it's too out there, but after Jesse and Hank's earlier interactions, it would be interesting to see them working together in this way.
I'm not sure Jesse is that calculating. And I think he still has some father figure feelings about Walt. But that's an interesting prediction, and I think it could happen if Hank approaches him.
Quote from: ono on August 31, 2012, 07:27:46 AM
I had a thought yesterday about Jesse. What's the one way for him to truly be out? If Walt's gone, finally leaving him the hell alone. How does he accomplish that, and get free? If Walt gets caught without him, Walt might take him down. So, instead, Jesse brings his information to Hank in exchange for immunity and they work together to bring him down. Any number of those three people die in a final confrontation. I think Jesse finding out that Walt killed Mike is the turning point, the catalyst Jesse needs to see how this can't end well AND he might need to do something drastic like this to stop it. Maybe it's too out there, but after Jesse and Hank's earlier interactions, it would be interesting to see them working together in this way.
I'm not sure Jesse could get immunity given everything he's done, especially murdering Gale.
Jesse going to hank would be the boringest way to make the shit hit the fan. That would be more like delicately placing the shit on a fan blade and blowing onto it with your mouf.
Hank has to discover things himself. Jesse has to fight Walt. Skylar has to die(I don't even hate her it's just going to happen, they have no other plausible victim). It would be surprising if Walt's kids died, that would be too much to lose, no stakes would be left and the show would become a pointless shoot out.
So maybe that's how it ends.
What Breaking Bad Owes to THE SHiNiNG (http://www.vulture.com/2012/08/breaking-bad-the-shining.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nymag%2Fvulture+%28Vulture+-+nymag.com%27s+Entertainment+and+Culture+Blog%29) - Vulture article on.. well, what the title says.
Oh, FUCK. Amiright, you guys?
I thought this was the best episode of the half-season. So much good stuff. And the ending was PERFECT. My heart was racing.
More on The Playlist tomorrow...
I told you bitches! At least I think I did. Hank had to find out this ep. And Mike's 9 guys took up about 2 minutes.
There was something different with this episode compared to every other Breaking Bad Episode. I just felt the direction and the feel of the episode had this horror/evil/dread element to it. Everything leading up to the first montage of the killings, almost felt like an entirely different show. I really liked it. It just felt like David Fincher came in and directed the first quarter of the show.
Great scene with Walt and Jesse.
I guess we a knew the moment of Hank figuring it out was certain but it was still an exciting moment. Everything is just going to fall in to place for Hank now. He'll realize the whole winning money at gambling was a lie, understand what was going on with Skyler and finally understand his love affair of remembering Walt and his second phone. Also could look up that Jesse was one of his former students. I imagine he'll have to do some investigating on his own or just with Gomez before telling the DEA he's investigating his brother in law. Also, It's a funny touch that Hank finds out while taking a shit.
I was surprised that Walt called it quits. I expect seeing a huge stack of money like that could persuade anyone. I don't know how much you can trust Walt though. He did try it before and ended up completely redoing the closet before going back. Does Hank try to investigate Walt trying to piece together what he's done or does Walt get back into it and Hank catch him in the act?
I noticed this a couple of seasons ago but Marie and her love affair of purple is out of hand. Purple is a great color. It's the color of royalty but she has way too much purple decorating her house.
Quote from: MacGuffin on August 28, 2012, 05:17:50 PM
I'm guessing modage will say this about this Sunday's episode:
:shock:
:yabbse-cry:
:bravo:
Quote from: modage on September 02, 2012, 10:43:24 PM
Oh, FUCK. Amiright, you guys?
I thought this was the best episode of the half-season. So much good stuff. And the ending was PERFECT. My heart was racing.
More on The Playlist tomorrow...
Pretty much.
So perfect. I mean, no better place to finally think clearly than while taking a dump. It has been in front of him this whole time.
Such an amazing episode. The last 1/3 of it everything was going so great, and the tension was just incredible waiting for something to happen. Reminded me of the last episode of The Sopranos, but only better.
This episode definitely did feel different. Such an oddly-paced structure. Here's the genius of it. I'm guessing they knew viewers would be expecting something big to happen, so they realized they could use a bunch of low-key scenes to crank up the tension:
- The very slow scene where Walt awkwardly sits with his back to Todd
- The long chat with disillusioned Hank
- Walt's visit to Jesse's house (I kept thinking Walt came to kill Jesse, especially since it was in the last 8 minutes of the episode)
- Party scene with Hank & Marie (I knew it couldn't end like that, so was someone going show up guns blazing?)
Hank's epiphany was perfect in every way.
Just looking at his face in that final scene, you can see the pieces ominously sliding into place in his mind, I imagine something like the title cards in Requiem for a Dream. There are just so many anecdotal smoking guns in Hank's memory that were just lying in wait for this moment. Adding to Brando's list:
- Walt having anxiety about the laundromat and causing the accident
- Walt having anxiety about placing the GPS unit
- Walt belittling Gale and saying maybe Heisenberg is still out there
- Walt's chemistry expertise
- Walt's change in personality (and gambling problem) coincided with the blue meth surfacing
- Walt's antics in Hank's office, including holding the picture frame
Hank will be on a crusade orders of magnitude beyond his Gus Fring obsession. But it's still going to be an uphill battle. He's holding the physical smoking gun, but how does he get it out? Evidence taken that way is useless in court. How does he catch Walt in the act if he's no longer in the act? Maybe he crosses some professional boundaries and orchestrates something that would cause Walt to start cooking again. I can see Hank and Gomez doing something rogue.
We can be reasonably sure that Walt catches on to Hank's suspicion, right?
There are so many possibilities. It must be endlessly exciting but quite daunting for the writers. They're writing the final 8 right now, apparently.
This should be an interesting podcast.
I'm only 40 minutes into the podcast, but they've already made it clear how much influence Michelle MacLaren had on the episode. Showing the prison deaths in the full-action Godfather style was her idea. She's now directed some of the show's very best episodes, including Salud and One Minute. (And in fact, these might be the 3 most violent episodes of the whole series.)
Interestingly, she also directed Walking Dead's (arguably) best episode, "Pretty Much Dead Already."
I wonder if they specifically recruit her for the more action-packed Breaking Bad episodes. They could certainly do that, since she's on staff anyway as a producer.
Donna Bowman pulled through and offered a pretty good (brief) analysis of why Walt is okay with being done:
When she hands over the nine names and walks away, Walt looks disappointed; the ricin vial he'd been ready to use to tie up the Lydia loose end has to go back behind the outlet. He's got a new partner.
Not just disappointed, though. Tired. As Heisenberg puts back on his hat and heads back to work, he already looks like a man who has discovered that the prize he worked for isn't what he imagined. It doesn't feel like freedom. In fact, it's a job, and like all jobs, it's a neverending treadmill.
As well as opening with this quote:
"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer."
http://www.avclub.com/articles/gliding-over-all,84205/
Oh and did anyone else notice Michael Bowen? I half expected Walt's response to be "you have to be nicer to me." Or Michael Bowen could have said "let's make some money." Something. At first I was like "is that.... no, it can't be. Is it?"
The podcast confirms it's him, as do the opening credits, but it's not on imdb yet.
Quintuple post complete. Moving on.
Other reasons that Walt wanted to stop:
- With his "I'm in the empire business" rhetoric, he must have been picturing himself as some kind of Tuco figure, in his own little world with henchmen by his side. But Walt knows what happened to Tuco. And Walt's lack of involvement in distribution precludes him from that role anyway. It's never going to be his empire... he's dependent on people like Lydia. It's just not as romantic as he was hoping. This could be why the Heisenberg hat came back with a vengeance this season. He needed to cling to that fantasy more than ever.
- No Jesse, no inspiration. He was the inspiration to begin with, remember, as he caught Walt's eye climbing out of that window. Walt wanted to build something together. Now he's stuck with a truly uninspiring sidekick. First Gale, now Todd... what luck. (Giving Todd the literal cold shoulder was a nice touch.)
Surprised not to see more speculation on how do we get to the scene from the first episode of the season. Is Walt running away from Hank?
:shock: Thru the tray slot tho. Walter White got goons yall.
I wrote some stuff (http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/recap-heartstopping-breaking-bad-midpoint-gliding-over-all-is-the-seasons-best-episode-20120903)!
Be kind.
Hank notwithstanding, is it even feasible for Walt to simply "get out" like that? The Phoenix cartel might have something to say about that after all the trouble Walt gave them to end up supplying his product for them. Is he selling the remainder of the methylene to them after all? For that matter, if he's not doing business with Lydia, doesn't she go back to being a loose end? And what about Todd? He's way too entrenched and knows way too much to just cut him free and set him loose.
There was either a lot of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes that we weren't privy to, or Walt did not think this through AT ALL.
* How long do you think the masterminds had "Crystal Blue Persuasion" in their pocket to use in a key episode?
* My imagination, or did Lydia come off as attractive when she got to show some confidence and actually smile for once?
* I thought something TERRIBLE involving the kids getting shot was going to happen in that last scene by the pool. Why? We'd find out. Or something. But No. We ended on a note where we question our loyalties now.
Quote from: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on September 03, 2012, 04:40:51 PM
* My imagination, or did Lydia come off as attractive when she got to show some confidence and actually smile for once?
Hell yeah! Guess I'm not alone then.
Quote from: polkablues on September 03, 2012, 03:41:06 PM
Hank notwithstanding, is it even feasible for Walt to simply "get out" like that? The Phoenix cartel might have something to say about that after all the trouble Walt gave them to end up supplying his product for them. Is he selling the remainder of the methylene to them after all? For that matter, if he's not doing business with Lydia, doesn't she go back to being a loose end? And what about Todd? He's way too entrenched and knows way too much to just cut him free and set him loose.
There was either a lot of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes that we weren't privy to, or Walt did not think this through AT ALL.
Exactly the same thing was on my mind. Lots of unanswered questions there, none of which were addressed or even raised in the podcast by the way. I've always thought he can't just "get out." Maybe this is like the end of Season 4, when Walt had all this delusional confidence.
Quote from: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on September 03, 2012, 04:40:51 PM* How long do you think the masterminds had "Crystal Blue Persuasion" in their pocket to use in a key episode?
The podcast answers this.
Vince was familiar with the song, but it didn't occur to him until he heard it playing on his car radio. Then they saved it for about a year and a half.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 03, 2012, 05:06:46 PM
Quote from: polkablues on September 03, 2012, 03:41:06 PM
Hank notwithstanding, is it even feasible for Walt to simply "get out" like that? The Phoenix cartel might have something to say about that after all the trouble Walt gave them to end up supplying his product for them. Is he selling the remainder of the methylene to them after all? For that matter, if he's not doing business with Lydia, doesn't she go back to being a loose end? And what about Todd? He's way too entrenched and knows way too much to just cut him free and set him loose.
There was either a lot of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes that we weren't privy to, or Walt did not think this through AT ALL.
Exactly the same thing was on my mind. Lots of unanswered questions there, none of which were addressed or even raised in the podcast by the way. I've always thought he can't just "get out." Maybe this is like the end of Season 4, when Walt had all this delusional confidence.
maybe he paid them out with the remaining methylamine he had, no way that in three months he used 1000 galons. but I agree, it feels way too easy to be out just like that.
also, when Lydia proposed to expand she said that 25lb = 2md, if the time since then is three months that pile of money is way big, I did a little counting and as far as I can tell that pile is:
height: 50 packs of 100 bills
length: 12
wide: 15
being conservative of those 50 rows 30 are 20s and 20 are 50s = 28.8md.
now, I'm guessing he gives to Jesse his 5mill, and that only took two bags, so maybe he has even more...
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 03, 2012, 03:16:00 AM
I'm only 40 minutes into the podcast, but they've already made it clear how much influence Michelle MacLaren had on the episode. Showing the prison deaths in the full-action Godfather style was her idea. She's now directed some of the show's very best episodes, including Salud and One Minute. (And in fact, these might be the 3 most violent episodes of the whole series.)
fwiw, according to imdb she's directig two episodes of game of thrones.
Has no one considered that Walt is NOT out? He's just saying that to Skylar?
He might have left things in a state where he can start up again (though that would require much explanation), but no, I think he is out. Cranston really played it subtle, but there is definitely a deep sense of anticlimax.
Beyond the points I made about Jesse's absence (which I later heard confirmed in the podcast, yay), I think it's clear that Walt has always been most excited about the process of getting to the top. Now that he's there, it's just a grind. He's not a manager type like Gus; he is a scientist... a scientist who's making no progress. His product is essentially perfect, and he has distribution figured out, so what's the point anymore?
I think he was disappointed that it was so easy to expand. He connected with the Phoenix guys. He simply had to say yes to Lydia's plan (which was notably not his). No reinvention, no complex problem solving, no turf war? Walt would have relished that. The point of breaking bad (lower case) has always been the process.
I love all of that, because it confounds expectations while making perfect sense. Which is the show's specialty.
I think the first ep of this season gives away a lot. In the diner. So like in the eggs he makes a 52 with the bacon, so his age. A couple of episodes later Skyler reluctantly makes 51 in Walt's breakfast. So a year has passed.
Also in the diner he shows the waitress his ID to get a free breaky, she refers to him as Lambert (That's Skyler & Marie's maiden name.. the plot thickens) And says he's from New Hampshire, and that he's a long way from home.
I think he's still in the same town as always, New Mexico, because in the bathroom the guy selling the gun asks for Walt's word that the Rambo gun he just bought won't be crossing the border (New Mexico is where America meets Mexico hence the Border) and Walt assures him that the gun won't be leaving town at all (Is he gonna go all Rambo on the DEA, wtf?)
Why is he using a fake ID? Why is he sad when he's making the 52 in his breakfast? Did something happen to Skyler and the family, and while making the 52 it brought memories of Skyler doing it? Did Skyler die.
Tell me another TV show this fucking great and complex.
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Did anyone else notice that one of prison guys mentioned their plan was "more complicated than the hit on bin laden was" or something along those lines? Aren't we still back in 2009ish in the Breaking Bad world?
...but that episode was fantastic. I can't believe how long we have to wait for the final 8.
Quote from: polkablues on September 03, 2012, 03:41:06 PM
Hank notwithstanding, is it even feasible for Walt to simply "get out" like that? The Phoenix cartel might have something to say about that after all the trouble Walt gave them to end up supplying his product for them. Is he selling the remainder of the methylene to them after all? For that matter, if he's not doing business with Lydia, doesn't she go back to being a loose end? And what about Todd? He's way too entrenched and knows way too much to just cut him free and set him loose.
There was either a lot of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes that we weren't privy to, or Walt did not think this through AT ALL.
Who says he's even begun the process of getting out? I believe him when he says this to Skylar, but I interpreted it as "I'm getting out," and I assume this will be a key conflict next season. He'll realize even though he wants to get out, he can't. There is "no stopping this train." Severing ties with Lydia and his new distribution parters (who we didn't even see this episode) will present problems, and now Hank will be on his tail witnessing all of this. It's a big old recipe of fuck.
Quote from: Fernando on September 03, 2012, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 03, 2012, 03:16:00 AM
I'm only 40 minutes into the podcast, but they've already made it clear how much influence Michelle MacLaren had on the episode. Showing the prison deaths in the full-action Godfather style was her idea. She's now directed some of the show's very best episodes, including Salud and One Minute. (And in fact, these might be the 3 most violent episodes of the whole series.)
fwiw, according to imdb she's directig two episodes of game of thrones.
I said this before but Michelle MacLaren is the best director they've got. She should be directing movies now. I want to give this show a little bit of shit for relying so much on montages but goddamn the two in this episode were so expertly done. My favorite part in the whole episode though was when Walt paid Jesse a visit at his house. It was such an intense, awkward and dare I say sad "break up" scene. I can't wait to see what's in store for Jesse next season.
I'm seeing a lot of people on the rest of the interweb bitch about how and why Walt would keep that book around. It doesn't bother me much, but interested in hearing what you guys think. This comment from AVClub sums up some issues people are having:
Quote from: AVCLUB commentI'm with you in disliking the book as the fatal loose end. Esp. after Walt even looked at the book's monogram earlier this season. The W.W. reference was the closest Hank ever came to suspecting Walt; seeing that monogram should have made Walt shudder and run to burn it. It's almost implausibly uncharacteristic that he would keep it, and even less imaginable that he would lose track and allow it to drift around the house.
In fact, it seems like such a B-level idea for the fatal chink in the armor, it made the whole episode feel glib and unearned in retrospect. Clockwork murder of ten prison inmates? No sweat! Make millions internationally (and the bulk of payoff from the entire series) in a 3-min. cook montage? Sounds peachy! But Walt forgot to get rid of a fucking book from Gale???
Like your observation about the 3 months of Hank and Marie babysitting (I'd have guessed maybe 6-8 weeks?), the suspension of disbelief was easily shattered in this episode. The upside is I'm not even that anxious to see it resume, and don't really care what happens when the writers' marionette strings are this clumsy.
Good interview (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-20120901,0,854913.story) with Vince in LA Times.
"We've got some ideas for the last eight episodes that frankly trouble me and worry me," [Gilligan] said. "I worry the audience won't stay on board with some of them. But this show demands dramatic moments and moments of shock and surprise and showmanship, and I want to carry that through to the bitter end — if indeed it is a bitter end."
It does seem that Walt is out for good or that is his plan. It seems his family is salvageable. Skyler gave a little smile to Walt like things are going to be alright. I too think it might not be that easy for him to get out. He's forced himself into this situation and now people might not want to live in a world without Coca Cola. Also, things are never easy in the world of Breaking Bad and they've made a point of having consequences for character's action and Walt has not paid for a fraction for things he's done. If he's really out for good, there has to be some outside influence that continues Walt on his path of breaking bad. At the moment, giving up to become the old Walt again while being secretly investigated by his brother in law would turn Walt back into a sympathetic character. I don't think the writers want that and plus we have to get to him buying a rambo gun at a denny's within eight episodes/months. So if Walt is truly out and willing to give it all up then some outside influence either from old partners, todds' family, Hank or something else will have to slightly nudge or to force Walt back on the path breaking bad. "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."
Something that just crossed my mind: Walt bragged to his new partners about killing Gus. They thought the cartel killed him. Word might get back to people of Gus' that this Walt guy actually killed him especially now they have no reason to keep it a secret now that he's out. In the season four flashback, the cartel don didn't kill Gus cause he said He knew who he was. It's a stretch but just a thought.
Quote from: ©brad on September 04, 2012, 09:27:06 AM
My favorite part in the whole episode though was when Walt paid Jesse a visit at his house. It was such an intense, awkward and dare I say sad "break up" scene. I can't wait to see what's in store for Jesse next season.
I'm seeing a lot of people on the rest of the interweb bitch about how and why Walt would keep that book around. It doesn't bother me much, but interested in hearing what you guys think. This comment from AVClub sums up some issues people are having:
I had the same reaction to the Walt and Jesse scene. I wouldn't be surprised if we barely saw Jesse next season unless/until he's dragged back into it by either Hank's investigation or some other loose end which is likely.
The way Hank found out about Walt didn't bother me. I just can't think of a way Hank would have found out about Walt that would have been better. Maybe in the beginning of the show I thought it would be this fantastic/surprising way in usual breaking bad fashion but finding the book is probably closer to the truth. It's usually stupid little things that are how these people get caught. I didn't have any problems with Walt keeping the book around cause at the time he unpacked it he was on his huge power/ego trip. I mean he was buying fucking cars and wearing expensive watches so keeping a book around was nothing.
I do have to say the flashback at the end was very uncharacteristic of Breaking Bad as well. They didn't flash back earlier in the episode when Walt looked at the dispenser he punched. I usually don't like it when a show does that but I really liked it in this case. It wasn't needed but it was great.
Quote from: ©brad on September 04, 2012, 10:03:55 AM
Good interview (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-20120901,0,854913.story) with Vince in LA Times.
"We've got some ideas for the last eight episodes that frankly trouble me and worry me," [Gilligan] said. "I worry the audience won't stay on board with some of them. But this show demands dramatic moments and moments of shock and surprise and showmanship, and I want to carry that through to the bitter end — if indeed it is a bitter end."
That's actually a little terrifying coming from him. I wan't to watch the last eight right now but don't want it to end.
I could not disagree more with that AV Club comment. Walt has always been about loose ends. That's his weakness. Sure he's gotten better, but he will never be as intensely careful as Gus Fring was. He's always leaving a bit of a mess behind. He barely remembered to cover all his tracks in E1, which was even played somewhat comically, at his expense.
I will defend that flashback to the death. It was so well-earned. I especially love that they used an alternate take for Hank's part, in which he's more serious when he says "Walter White?" (Thank you, podcast.) A very nice chilling moment.
I love the breaking bad flashback. I usually hate it in other series cause of its purpose. Usually, the flashback is used cause they don't trust the viewer. The BB flashback wasn't needed for the viewer to fill in any blanks. It was only there for dramatic purpose and worked beautifully in an episode that was greatly crafted. I'm just echoing everything everyone else has said but I can't think of another Breaking Bad episode where I've been more impressed by the production, direction and editing than the writing. And the writing was still great.
I can't wait to listen to the podcast. I have a long drive in mornings and afternoons so I save it for the drive but have to wait till it's on iTunes. It's usually on by Tuesday morning but woke up and it wasn't there. Hopefully tomorrow morning I can listen to it.
From the AV Club:
Even more people are watching Breaking Bad now than the last time we said that
http://www.avclub.com/articles/even-more-people-are-watching-breaking-bad-now-tha,84590/
As evidenced by the fact that discussing Breaking Bad now accounts for 50 percent of all human conversation—to the point where a baby born to the remote Mursi tribe yesterday drew its first breath and squealed, "I am the one who knocks!" before being immediately put to death—a lot more people watch Breaking Bad now. In fact, 47-percent more people watched Sunday's finale than last year's, with 2.8 million viewers tuning in to see Hank drop a very different kind of bomb in the episode's waning moments.
As noted in an AMC press release, this first half of the show's swan song saw an overall 56-percent increase in viewers age 18-49, continuing a rare exponential growth from year to year that one might compare to some sort of addiction-related epidemic, were there only an apt comparison to make. At this rate, by the time Breaking Bad returns for its final eight episodes in summer 2013, so many people will be watching that Twitter and Facebook will essentially be nothing but Breaking Bad spoilers.
^^ that's great, I already stay away from twitter and fb. wonder if amc will try to persuade Vince to make more than 8 episodes given those numbers.
Quote from: Brando on September 04, 2012, 08:35:51 PM
I can't wait to listen to the podcast. I have a long drive in mornings and afternoons so I save it for the drive but have to wait till it's on iTunes. It's usually on by Tuesday morning but woke up and it wasn't there. Hopefully tomorrow morning I can listen to it.
it was good and almost 90min long.
a couple of things Vince said:
- he loves the Fly episode and doesn't get why so many ppl don't like it, I love that one btw.
- only thing he said about the next season is that they won't hold back, not that they ever did but right now they're on death row so....it will be insane.
Possibly the best show on cable television. Makes me wish i'd gotten in on this discussion earlier. The reason I definitely think the flashback worked in this episode, as Brando pointed out, BB doesn't play its audience for a fool. But even more so, the obvious reason for it working is that hank is actually putting it together in his head. This is also why I believe they had good reasons to use a more dramatic take of Hank's delivery of, "Walter White?"
No one needed to see it, but Hank has to know he was on the right track the whole time. Which could be one explanation the new delivery of the line, aside from adding to the drama. Really awesome.
Quote from: Fernando on September 05, 2012, 09:43:56 AM- he loves the Fly episode and doesn't get why so many ppl don't like it, I love that one btw.
Yeah I heard that too. But I still don't like "Fly." I mean it's not horrible, but I think it's the
least good episode of the show, and probably really the only true "weak" episode they've had to date. The concept didn't quite work, the dialogue was subpar, and most importantly, it was not true to Walt's character. Everything just felt off.
I've previously compared it to the House episode "One Day, One Room." It has a similar feeling and a similar betrayal of character, but I should be quick to point out that it's not nearly as bad. Most TV shows have some horrifically bad episodes (God knows The X-Files had plenty), and "Fly" doesn't even approach that. It's weak, but not truly bad.
I love the Fly episode, mostly because it's the closest we've come to understanding Walt's perspective, which he illustrates in the "perfect moment" monologue. There's never been a time on the show where Walt has been more transparent about his actual feelings.
Also, it's the episode that best utilizes Cranston's chops for physical comedy (that fall is amazing).
this vid is all over twitter now, it's great.
needless to say it spoils ALL seasons.
I like the Ennio Morricone one more, but it's a testament to the show that it inspires such great fan art.
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/interrogation/2012/09/breaking_bad_s_final_season_an_interview_with_vince_gilligan_.single.html#pagebreak_anchor_2 (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/interrogation/2012/09/breaking_bad_s_final_season_an_interview_with_vince_gilligan_.single.html#pagebreak_anchor_2)
Nice Vince Gilligan interview. No spoilers.
QuoteGilligan: I was talking a few minutes ago to a writer who was asking me about inconsistencies of when the show is set in time. When I was shooting the pilot episode, we had a scene where Walt puts his son's handicap placard on his car, and it said 2007. The writer said to me: "I thought this show took place in 2007, and it's only been a year since then, but last week you had someone mention the Osama Bin Laden assassination. How do you reconcile that?" I had to say, "Well, honestly, I don't." In a perfect world, this show is somewhat timeless, and people will watch it and think of it as the present
Told ya.
And?
Random prediction. Declan kidnaps Walt and forces him to cook for him and divulge his recipe, since customers are demanding his Crystal Blue Persuasion. Walt escapes, of course. It's sort of a callback to Tuco. With possible Hank involvement.
But probably not. That would be too expected. Also, I would be uncomfortable with Declan simply becoming the new "big bad." Doesn't ring true with the show's philosophy. The final 8 will probably be an all-out showdown between Walt and Hank with all sorts of crazy and unpredictable stuff happening... things that we haven't really seen before. Vince made clear in the podcast that this is when they don't want to hold back, this is when they stop saving ideas for later.
Honestly I wish it could have been more than 8 and 8. They had have sufficient scope and enough ideas to wrap it up with two full seasons.
Nerdist Writers Panel (great podcast) has a long (1:11) interview with the entire writing staff...
http://www.nerdist.com/2012/09/nerdist-writers-panel-54-breaking-bad-season-five-in-review/
Recorded just 3 days ago. It's fantastic. You really get a clear sense of the writing staff's chemistry and their whole dynamic. Many insights about the first 8. Maybe 20-30% of it has been said in the podcasts before, but there's plenty of new and interesting stuff. There are absolutely no spoilers for the second 8.
There are some audio issues in the first few minutes, but they get fixed before too long.
And if you want to put faces to the names:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FMoira%2BWalley%2BBeckett%2BGeorge%2BMastras%2B2012%2BWriters%2Bedg8xA09bCvx.jpg&hash=13093ca8c892b88ec18b28e517e84b2ff707e7eb)
Left to right: Tom Schnauz, George Mastras, Sam Catlin, Vince Gilligan, Peter Gould, Gennifer Hutchison, Moira Walley-Beckett
Great find! Is there anyway to download the podcast? The site keeps crashing on me.
Here's a mirror:
NWP54_Breaking_Bad.mp3 (http://xixax.com/jb/NWP54_Breaking_Bad.mp3)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Breaking_Bad_episodes#Season_5_.282012.E2.80.932013.29
Note the ratings for BB's last two episodes this year. What can we extrapolate from this? For me, the ratings say a lot more about the previous episode than the quality of the episode itself. Or, the satisfaction the audience felt. I felt a certain emptiness after episode 7, and I think that was reflected here. There was this sense of real loss. With Jesse out of the picture, and Mike now dead, there was nothing left, and the audience, at least 200k of them, may have felt similar. Usually you'd expect a finale to have a spike in the numbers, but this one didn't. I wonder why else that is.
I think the fact that it was a holiday weekend probably had something to do with it.
Quote from: Tictacbk on September 11, 2012, 04:21:08 AM
I think the fact that it was a holiday weekend probably had something to do with it.
This. People were out of town and likely watched it a day or two after. Ono I think you're reaching with this one. Remember those ratings don't take into account DVR and people watching online and through other maybe not so legal means. Episode quality or Mike dying doesn't has anything to do with it.
^ this
I think it makes more sense that some people would not want to see the most important episode of the season on tv with commercial interruptions. The fact the number of viewers increased so much throughout the season is attributable to the growing number of Johnny-come-latelies trying to catch up halfway through the season.
The number will keep growing but this show basically demands to be downloaded for uninterrupted commercial-free viewing. Sucks for the ratings but that's their fault for making the most nail biting show of all time.
http://www.avclub.com/articles/even-more-people-are-watching-breaking-bad-now-tha,84590/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/even-more-people-are-watching-breaking-bad-now-tha,84590/)
http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2012/07/breaking-bad-nielsen-ratings/ (http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2012/07/breaking-bad-nielsen-ratings/)
This was Breaking Bad's best season ratings wise. With it being on Netflix more people have caught up and are watching it live. I could watch it live but choose to DVR it then start watching thirty minutes into it so I can fast forward the commercials.
I'm going through some BB withdrawal. I've only listened to this season's podcast and the one for Face Off. Anyone know of any good podcast of the previous seasons that are worth checking out other than the obvious ones of the memorable episodes?
Quote from: Brando on September 11, 2012, 10:33:45 AMI'm going through some BB withdrawal. I've only listened to this season's podcast and the one for Face Off. Anyone know of any good podcast of the previous seasons that are worth checking out other than the obvious ones of the memorable episodes?
I recommend just listening to all the podcasts. If they're not all available on iTunes anymore (starting with season 2), I can host them here.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 11, 2012, 09:58:54 AM
...this show basically demands to be downloaded for uninterrupted commercial-free viewing. Sucks for the ratings but that's their fault for making the most nail biting show of all time.
god yes. here in region 4-land cable is only airing Season 4 so I'm re-watching some of the episodes and cant imagine seeing them for the first time with commercials, specially episodes like crawl space.
found this good interview of Vince, among many topics they talk about the Kubrick influence.
http://www.salon.com/2012/09/06/vince_gilligan_does_not_want_breaking_bad_to_end/
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa1.s6img.com%2Fcdn%2F0007%2Fp%2F1092503_13941333_lz.jpg&hash=3f5e18c05212677e85a031c0068a39a2726358eb)
http://society6.com/BrianDeYoungIllustration/The-Heisenbergs_Print
Looks like Breaking Bad only got one Emmy. Didn't even win the editing award with both of its editors nominated.
Homeland was pretty good, but certainly not great. I had my complaints, and it's definitely overrated. It even conquered Game of Thrones, which didn't win a single Emmy tonight.
Almost every Emmy awarded save Louie, Julia Louis Dryfus for Veep (which more people need to watch b/c it's amazing) and Aaron Paul was bullshit. How many goddamn Emmy's does such a mediocre bore like Modern Family need? And that douche from 2 & 1/2 Men wins? Ughhhhh.
Homeland is a very good show but it's no Breaking Bad or Mad Men.
Homeland is overrated. It has a 24 problem.
Peter Dinklage winning best supporting actor was the only category I would have bet money on. I loved Aaron Paul's speech where he thanked Vince Gilligan for not killing him off.
yeah, Homeland is good but not as great as Br Ba, Game of Thrones or Mad Men, not even close.
so veep is good, guess ill have to check that out....
Ok, so I've been watching Breaking Bad for the last couple of years but only on tuesday I finished season 5 and now can join in the conversation.
It has been really exciting witnessing this show catching it's groove. It didn't start out so great, in my opinion. I even saw Season 1 and went on to see the entire The Wire and The Sopranos before coming back to this. But by mid season 2 this was obviously turning into one of the great tv shows of all time. I guess this is why people love to put this show and The Wire above The Sopranos (really, there's no point to compare), the audiences for this shows saw them grow episode by episode, while Sopranos was always awesome from episode 1 and even got a few of a backlash (absurd) from season 4 on. Breaking Bad really got things moving in Season 2 on a "each new episode tops the last" kind of way, and it has never let down.
It's biggest strength is it's capacity for creating tension. I swear no film or any other show has put me on the edge, almost yelling at the tv with it's intensity during the last 5 years or more. How can they keep pulling this off never ceases to amaze me. And it's always a combination of superb filmmaking, acting and writing. Everything is put at stake.
I do have one beef with the show that has affected my appreciation of Walt's transformation during it's course and is that they seem to overdo things sometimes. Season 4 was the weakest to me because it's where it became more obvious. They decided apparently on a "Walt is going to look like an idiot during this whole season" and "Jessie is going to be deeply affected by Gale's murder" and just went with it until it grew tiresome. Season 5 kind of had something like that with Walter. Episode 1 has the guy saying shit like "because I say so", laying the cards on the table to say: "now Walt is an asshole and a badass full steam". I let this things pass because I understand the show has it's own pace, and as Vince Gilligan said, it requires intense moments, and maybe a slower, more subdued way of showing Walt's descend into madness would fuck with that and the pulpy flavor it has. I really don't mind that much, it's just an observation. By contrast, Tony Soprano was always a much more disturbing character because he really and sincerely was always trying to do the right thing, but was a true sociopath; and his transformation wasn't from Mr. Chips to Scarface but a one of a more complex nature: a sociopath who enters into therapy to be a better person and by the end has turned into a better criminal. However, Cranston's performance is a joy, and it's always awesome when an actor who's been around forever gets a chance to shine like this in a completely different way.
I also think that Hank is the moral center of the story, but I sense that because of it he will be killed. Maybe they have something else in store, but as The Wire, this show over and over paints the drug war effort as a hopeless endeavor; for as long as there's prohibition, there will be Walts, Jessies, and Gus Frings around. Loved the Scarface/Heat references by the way.
I'm bummed as everyone else that this will end. It seems way too soon. Damn.
As a side note, I also loved The Fly episode. I didn't find Walt's behavior through it out of character, on the contrary I felt this was one of the very first times in the series when you get to see a glimpse of the egomaniac within, who will feel a fucking fly is there to fuck particularly with him and his plans, and he will not let it.
Aaron Paul just tweeted the following:
"I just finished reading the first episode of the final season of Breaking Bad and words can not express what I just experienced. Holy shit."
He's made similar comments at the start of production of every season, but still... HOLY SHIT.
Hmm. Maybe it had such an impact on him because his character is involved in something especially dramatic. Perhaps Jesse and Hank team up, and all sorts of crazy antics ensue. Hank would have to be willing to look the other way concerning Jesse's past transgressions, and the 5 million dollars sitting in his house.
Vince Gilligan on Writing Breaking Bad Finale (http://www.vulture.com/2013/01/vince-gilligan-on-writing-breaking-bad-finale.html)
Source: Nymag
"We're not gonna please everyone, we're not gonna please everyone ... This is what I keep telling myself so I can sleep at night," Vince Gilligan laughed last month, even though he wasn't exactly joking. When he spoke to Vulture, he was putting the finishing touches on the story for the third to last episode, getting very close to tackling the series finale (the show's last stretch of eight episodes airs on AMC starting in July). The writers room had gotten "a little schizophrenic," said Gilligan: They've been taking twice as long as normal, or about three and a half weeks, to break each of these concluding episodes, and rather than building from the ground up, they've had to do a little reverse-engineering to arrive where they must by the end. All of which is to say, he's more frazzled than usual, anxiously working to tie things up beautifully. "It's going to be polarizing no matter how you slice it," Gilligan said, "but you don't want 10 percent to say it was great and 90 percent to say it sucked ass. You want those numbers to be reversed." Without giving anything away (would anyone really want that?), he took some time to download ten things on his mind as he heads into the homestretch.
1. The evolution of Walt's fate. The metamorphosis of the sweet but sickly chemistry teacher into totally corrupted drug kingpin has made Walter White one of the most dynamic characters on TV, and just as he's changed through the seasons, so too has Gilligan's idea of how his saga would end. "I had this strange confidence in the beginning that I had an idea [for the ending] that was sound," he said of Walt's fate. "But I look back at the life of the series and realize I cycled through so many possible endings, it would be disingenuous to say I had always had it figured out. It has evolved in the last five years and probably has some evolving left to do." He's planted flags along the way to help steer the direction but still reserves the right to change course, even with two episodes left to go. "I read interviews with showrunners all the time who say, 'I know exactly where this thing is headed.' I always find that very interesting, and I don't doubt them for a minute. It's just I can't see my way clear to do that because the characters in Breaking Bad are in a state of constant change by design," he said. "When a character will be a different person five or six or ten or sixteen episodes from now, it's hard to predict the future."
2. How Casablanca got it exactly right. In terms of nailing the end, Gilligan says he and the writers don't talk about TV — they talk movies. And for him, Casablanca remains "pretty perfect." "No one gets everything they wanted. The guy doesn't get the girl, but he has the satisfaction of knowing she wants him. And he doesn't get her because he has to save the free world. What better ending is there than that?" Gilligan said. "I'm not saying we're going to approach that or reach in that direction. Our story doesn't line up [with Casablanca]. But we're looking for that kind of satisfaction."
3. His time on The X Files. Gilligan was still on the staff of The X Files when the sci-fi series reached its highly anticipated finale, but as a self-described "monster-of-the-week" guy, he says he never had to worry about making sure the conspiracies were synching. (He wrote the show's penultimate episode "Sunshine Days," set in The Brady Bunch house, and it had nothing to do with any of the overarching story lines.) "I sort of watched from afar as Chris Carter and Frank Spotnitz broke these mythology episodes, and they always made my head hurt like, Man, how do you link this and that? Then, of course, I wind up on this insanely hyperserialized show. I should have paid more attention back then."
4. Going back to the pilot. Ah, yes, Walt in his skivvies. The writers have spent a lot of time going back over that first episode, which began with Walt's 50th-birthday party and the discovery that he had cancer, and ended with his partnership with small-time dealer Jesse Pinkman, concocting the sweetest meth and killing a pair of dealers after his recipe. "Are there echoes of the beginning that we should have in the end? There's a certain kind of circularity that might be pleasing," Gilligan said. "We think a lot about that, in fact."
5. Henry Mancini. Gilligan recently read an old interview with the composer in which he was asked about the type of music he liked. Mancini said he liked best the ones that built in a feeling of inevitability. "He said something like, and I'm paraphrasing here, 'I think the best music compositions are the ones that surprise you in moments, but in others, you feel like you know where you're going, and there's this feeling of satisfaction that derives from that inevitability. In a sense, inevitability, realized,'" Gilligan said. "That really stuck with me because that's what I think we do on this show. We try to have a surprise around every corner but inevitability as well. The opposite of surprise. It's something that I feel should and will be an important component to the end of the series. To me, that is an interesting thing and a thing to be embraced, that feeling of 'I think I know where this is going.'"
6. Bringing Walt to justice — or not. "Of course he needs to go, and Jesse needs to pull the trigger!" "No, the cancer will return, and he'll die alone." "No. He'll outsmart everyone again and go on the run." This is the endless debate fans imagine the writers having as they attempt to answer Breaking Bad's Most Important Question: Will Walt get away with it? Yet, Gilligan says that back-and-forth isn't happening. "Not at all, really," he said. "I'm very cornball in my own view of the world. It just makes sense to me that bad people should get punished and good people should be rewarded. I know it doesn't work like that in real life, but there's always that yearning." But that desire for comeuppance doesn't apply to the made-up world he's created, even though justice may in fact be inevitable. "Oddly enough, I don't feel any real pressure to pay off the characters, morally speaking."
7. One final shout-out to The Godfather. One of Gilligan's favorite ways to describe Walt's descent is to say that he's gone from Mr. Chips to Scarface, but there's been far more Godfather along the way. In the mid-season finale, Walter closed the garage door in Jesse's face, much in the same way Michael shut Kay out of his office, and his meticulously timed murder of Mike's remaining guys echoed the Godfather's baptism montage in which Michael eliminated his enemies. "We crib from them shamelessly," Gilligan told me. "We're always asking ourselves, How does this relate to The Godfather? In the finale, we may give even a more overt tip of the hat."
8. Giving every character their due. Not counting baby Holly, the show has nine major characters left, including Walt's new recruits Lydia and Todd. Gilligan says that that occasionally feels like "one or two too many." "Sometimes it's hard to give them all their due and make them all wrap up beautifully. That's another big fear I have," he said. One outcome that's probably safe to assume? Saul will survive. "I like to think of Saul as a cockroach in the best possible way," Gilligan said. "This is a guy who's going to survive while the rest of us have been nuked into annihilation. He'll be the worst-dressed cockroach in the world."
9. Hank's triumph. It took 54 episodes, but in September's midseason finale, Hank finally locked in that his brother-in-law was Heisenberg. Hank wasn't conceived as the man to bring Walt down; Gilligan initially said he needed a boisterous alpha-male foil for the meek meth cook. But Hank revealed himself to be if not smarter than Walt, then more doggedly persistent. And who knows if he'll really get to take down Heinsenberg, but the playing field has been leveled. "We discovered Hank is very, very good at his job," Gilligan said. "You know, I love the TV show Columbo. Hank is like a postmodern shout-out to Columbo."
10. Finality. There will be no Breaking Bad movie. Episode 62 is it, folks. How many ways can Gilligan say it? "Rightly or wrongly, there will be a conclusive ending," he told me. "Our story from the beginning has been designed to be close-ended. It's very much designed to have a beginning, middle, and end and then to exist no more."
I've got butterflies in my stomach after reading that
is it spoilerful??
if so, I aint reading it.
Quote from: Fernando on January 03, 2013, 07:52:41 PM
is it spoilerful??
if so, I aint reading it.
Only in a very abstract sense. No specific plot giveaways or anything.
July is a long time away. And there is absolutely nothing on TV I'm interested in watching before then. Damn.
thanks polka.
and kal, Game of Thrones bitch..
Br Ba Cupcakes....
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy251%2Ffbv%2Fbrbacupcakes_zps046eddf6.jpg&hash=ed24123ae839daff104d87c72a3b4de5a715c782)
I dont get the reference of the one at the top left and the one below the axe...
The top left appears to be underwear much like that of walter white on the cover of season one dvd/blu ray
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftheconcernsofmindykaling.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2F51CZO-3OGNL.jpg&hash=ba06d746e573219db88e5d7bd42a8670b4e66522)
wow, neil, you're like the hank of xixax.
after all these year, it finally resolve in front of your eyes.
I regret watching that last episode. I should have waited until the rest where out.
fuck.
wait, are you telling me you watched the last episode of season 5 before ANY OF THE OTHERS?!?!?
you deserve what you get, dummy.
yes, and...
SPOILERS
walter jr. still loves breakfast.
That was a risky scroll down.
Breaking Bad's Return Will Be Hank-centric (http://www.vulture.com/2013/02/breaking-bads-return-will-be-hank-centric.html)
Source: NYMAG
Breaking Bad is ending. Remember? Of course you remember; it's the blood in your veins, the air in your lungs. As usual with the show, actual information about the final eight episodes is scant, but actor Dean Norris says they'll be "Hank-centric." Not that he wanted it that way. "When [AMC] originally picked up the 16 [episodes] I thought, 'Great, I can do a pilot, do the 16 and then be free to do a show," Norris tells Canada's National Post. But man plans, God laughs! God here is AMC. "Then at some point fucking whoever decided they were going to split it into two eights so it cut me off from doing a pilot — and I had a pilot I wanted to do." So he made a request. "I called Vince [Gilligan] and I said, 'Hey man, maybe Hank should die in the first eight [of season five]." Gilligan demurred — "I need you, what else am I going to write about in the last eight?" Norris says he was told — and here we are. Presumably this means Hank does not die in the first episode back!
'Breaking Bad' Script Stolen From Bryan Cranston's Car
The actor reported that someone broke into his vehicle and snatched a shoulder bag, which also contained an iPad.
Source:THR
Breaking Bad's tightly-guarded secrets could come to light before the series returns this summer.
Star Bryan Cranston reported a theft March 1, alleging that someone broke his car window and snatched a shoulder bag containing an iPad and his Breaking Bad script, according to Albuquerque's ABC affiliate, KOAT-TV. Court documents obtained by ABCNews.com reveal that one of Cranston's employees, Taryn Feingold, was contacted by a confidential informant, who reportedly overheard a man at a local bar boasting about how he broke into a vehicle in the Sandia Mountain Range. He then reportedly showed his company "some type of laptop or iPad," according to the complaint, while "describing how he also had a script from the Breaking Bad series."
On Saturday, the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office arrested suspect Xavier McAfee for burglary, the complaint states.
The hit AMC series is wrapping up its final season with eight episodes remaining. Cranston, 57, plays high school chemistry teacher Walter White, who becomes entangled in the world of meth dealing after being diagnosed with terminal cancer. A date has not yet been set for its return.
Vince Gilligan and Bryan Cranston Talk BREAKING BAD, Deciding to End the Series, the Series Finale, the Saul Goodman Spin-off, and More
Source: Collider
With just a handful of episodes left of the highly acclaimed AMC drama series Breaking Bad, premiering this summer, the Academy of Television hosted an evening to celebrate the show while giving a glimpse into what fans can expect as the story about everyone's favorite meth dealer continues. Collider was there to cover and attend the event, and we've compiled the highlights of what was said during the Q&A.
During the discussion, actor Bryan Cranston talked about how he didn't quite grasp the extent of the darkness of his character's journey when he signed on, how much he's enjoyed the ride, that he got the "Br Ba" elemental chart tattooed on the inside of the ring finger of his right hand to commemorate the end of the series, which scene has resonated the most for him, how much the show has changed his life and career, and just how satisfying the finale will be for fans. Show creator Vince Gilligan talked about how they decided 62 episodes was enough to tell their story, the temptation of wanting to do another season, how the show ended up on AMC, that the show was originally set in the Inland Empire, their strive for authenticity, how they do the time lapse shots, that he never looks online to see what people are saying, and whether the spin-off featuring Saul (Bob Odenkirk) might actually happen.
Vince, when you first started thinking about this show, did you have any clue what the lifespan of the program would be?
VINCE GILLIGAN: I didn't know. Honest to god, I didn't think there would be a program. Scientists say that there's no way, on paper, that bumble bees should be able to fly 'cause of the size of their wings in comparison to their body mass. If you look on paper, a middle-aged guy finds out, in the first 15 minutes, that he's dying of cancer and he decides to cook crystal meth, who the fuck knew that this thing would last.
But, didn't you have some sense of the arc of the show, beyond just taking Walter White from Mr. Chips to Scarface? How much had you charted out, after you started to think about the show?
GILLIGAN: Not as much as one might think. I had six wonderful writers. We did not know where we were going, for the longest time. In the early going, I thought maybe we'd have three seasons, in all honesty. When it looked like we could last longer than that – and thank goodness for the fans and the critics and the folks that kept us on the air, all those years – we eventually came to the recognition that 62 episodes, which is what we're going to end with, was about perfect, but we did not know how it was going to end. Not at all.
When did you know that what happened in the last scene of that last episode would be the way that things would go down? Was the Walt Whitman book something you'd planned, long in advance?
GILLIGAN: It was about 10 or 12 episodes before that. It was probably about mid-way through Season 4 that we started talking about, "Wouldn't it be cool if Hank Schrader (Dean Norris), this wonderful, smart DEA agent who has doggedly been after this guy that turns out to be his brother-in-law, little does he know, would, after all the hard work that goes into such an investigation, literally be sitting on the toilet when he notices this book given to Walt, that Walt probably should have not kept in the house."
Which idea came first, the book or the shitter?
GILLIGAN: Book first, and then the toilet.
Do you ever think about what the legacy of this show it going to be?
GILLIGAN: I'd be disingenuous, if I said I didn't. I watch a lot of old TV shows. I watch a lot of Twilight Zone. That was on the air in 1959 and people are still watching it. Anyone who makes TV and anyone who makes movies hopes that their work outlives them. That would be my hope. I make no prognostication about whether or not that will be the case, but I'd like to believe that it would be.
How did this show end up on AMC? Did you pitch it to all the networks?
GILLIGAN: The short answer is that AMC said yes and everyone else said no, and god bless them for it. It's not an unusual story that you pitch a show or a movie and everyone says no except for the only one that says yes, and that's the only one that counts. We did, indeed, pitch the pilot for Breaking Bad, all over town, and a lot of folks were actually very open to it, but also felt like, "This is a bit dangerous. It's a bit risky." There's always a reason to say no. It's easy to say no. No one gets fired for saying no. They only get fired for saying yes, which is one of the sad things about the business, both with movies and television. But AMC, luckily, said yes. One of my agents took it upon himself to send the script to the AMC network, and then he called me up and said, "Hey, I sent this thing to AMC. Everyone else has said no, so I figured, what the hell? Do you know them?" And I said, "Yeah, they show Short Circuit 3, 14 times a night." That was before Mad Men, although I found out later that that was in the works, at that point. I said, "Why don't you just send it to the Food Network, since it's a show about cooking." But, when you pull the lever of the slot machine, it comes up cherries, and that's what happened. It was perfect timing. They were in the market to create scripted programming. They had nothing to lose. They weren't as risk-adverse, perhaps. When you're young and hungry or up-and-coming, it's easier to be risk-adverse, and thank goodness that they wanted to do it.
Bryan, when this show began, could you ever have imagined how dark and twisted this road would get for Walter White?
BRYAN CRANSTON: Well, he gave me that broad stroke of Mr. Chips to Scarface at our first meeting and I thought, "How Scarfacian would that be? Would it be a whitewashed Scarface? Would it be toned down a little bit?" I didn't know. He's such a fine Southern gentleman. When you talk to him, he's engaging and polite and sweet and smart. I just didn't grasp the intensity or the darkness that lurks beneath. It's amazing to all of us, who have worked with him so closely, to then discover, as we're reading the script and going, "Oh, my god!," and he's going, "Yeah, I think it's cool!" But I did know, when we first met, that what he was attempting to do had never been done before, in the history of television. He started a character out one way, as you get to know him a certain way, and then completely changed that character into someone else. To do that successfully was the gamble. We didn't know if it was going to work.
How do you feel about viewers who still have a lot of sympathy for your character, even though he has become a monster, in many ways?
CRANSTON: I've enjoyed the ride. What Vince and his writing team have been able to do is not only instill dramatic elements in the story structure, but also within the audience. The audience, when they were introduced to my character, was painted that way. He brilliantly laid those markers in there. He set the hook and you fell for this guy. This guy is a good guy who's trying to do the right thing. He's got a limited amount of time, so he makes this rash decision. We've all made rash decisions before, but perhaps not how this has manifested. So, you're with him. And then, you're tested. The audience was tested at certain points of the storytelling, over the six years, and there's going to be a turn, but that turn is so subjective. Some people say that turn happened in Season 2. Some people say it happened when they let Jane (Krysten Ritter) die. Some people will say it happened when they let something else happen. Personally, I feel it happened in the very first episode, when he attempted to become someone he wasn't. Once you do that, it a slippery slope. He lost his soul, and he allowed it to just drift away. He's in trouble.
Who's Walt's greatest threat now? After having disposed of so many of his enemies, is it Hank?
CRANSTON: It's going to be a wonderful surprise, these last eight episodes, for how it's resolved. I can only say that I think, personally and honestly, it's going to be very satisfying for the fans. When I read the finale, I thought, "Oh, yeah! Yep!"
Vince, the idea that you would choose to end a show when it's so critically successful and such a big hit with its fans seems crazy. Was there a temptation to continue the show for more seasons?
GILLIGAN: There was a temptation. There was a great lack of clarity, on my part, about how long this story should go and for how many seasons, and it was a very hard question to answer. I feel blessed that we had clarity and that we had the knowledge. The last thing in the world that I would want to know, in my own life, is when I'm going to pass away. One of the best blessings of this show was knowing, some time around the end of Season 4, exactly how many more episodes we were going to have, which was 16 more episodes. And then, the writers and I went back to the writers room and put up this big cork board that we divided into 16 equal sections and figured out exactly how much story we had left. You want to parcel it out, so that you end with having tied up the very last loose end and finish the last bit of plot that you hoped to achieve. You want to leave everything on the field. You don't want to leave anything lacking, but you don't want to finish up your story too soon. You want to time it out just right. There's no way you can do that on a typical TV show because TV, by its very nature, is designed to be indefinite and go on forever. It was a wonderful thing that they allowed us to do. It was very sad. I'm sad right now. We wrapped up a week ago, Wednesday. That was our last day, and it was very moving. We were on location, and not on our soundstage. It was very sad and bittersweet, but I'm very thankful to be able to say that, at no time in the last few months, did I say, "Whoops, we made a mistake. We should have gone another year." As sad as I am for this wonderful family to, in some sense, dissolve and go to the four winds, although hopefully we'll always be in touch and always be friends and work together again, and this family is in the process of dissolution, as we speak, all things must come to an end. I'm really proud of these last eight episodes. I've been so worried, for so many months, that we were going to screw it up. It's for you to decide, when you see it when it airs, but I think my writers and the actors would agree that we left it all on the field.
How did you mark the end of the show?
GILLIGAN: We had champagne that was chilled.
CRANSTON: Anytime in the last episode, when characters were finished with their work for that episode, we'd have a goodbye and more champagne. That's why it ended so well. So, on the very last day, a lot of crew members were saying, "I'm going to get a tattoo." They were going to get something that said, "Br Ba," and so many of the crew members said they were going to do it. So, our medic on the show said that he was going to arrange it. It just so happened that a very talented tattoo artist in our art department, Richard, was going to be there and set up shop and give tattoos out. It was a very Breaking Bad thing. So I went, "I'm going to do that. I'm going to get a tattoo." In my particular age group, we don't get tattoos. When I was a kid, anybody that had a tattoo was either in the Hell's Angels or in the Navy. So, I decided that I was going to do it, and I had to figure out where to put it. It's the little Br Ba elemental chart, on the inside of my ring finger, on my right hand.
Vince, this show wasn't originally set in New Mexico, right?
GILLIGAN: The original script, as I wrote it, took place in the Inland Empire. I was, and still am, friends with a DEA agent, who I've known for years. At that point, he was at the Riverside district office, so I thought I'd set it there, as a shout-out to him. And then, as luck would have it, Sony said, "What about New Mexico?" And I said, "What about it?" They said, "Well, a 30% rebate." And you know what? It was one of the best things that happened to the show, other than hiring the wonderful cast. Albuquerque, New Mexico is a wonderful place to shoot, as is Southern California. No offense to the business here, but it was perfect for Breaking Bad.
CRANSTON: It was a happy accident for us to go to New Mexico, but it became a part of the fabric of the storytelling process. It was a character, in and of itself, and it legitimized the endeavor that Walt and Jesse (Aaron Paul) were in.
How careful have you had to be with showing how meth is made?
GILLIGAN: We strive for authenticity, in every way that we can, whether it's the oncologist dealing with Walt's cancer or the DEA. The DEA has been very helpful to us, as far as helping us strive for authenticity. As far as the meth goes, we hold that to the same standard. You could cook meth with that equipment. It's basically a brewing process, except more complicated.
CRANSTON: Whenever we showed it, we never showed it in sequence. We always left a step out, or did it out of order.
GILLIGAN: That was in the early days. It's a complex process. The truth of it is that we live in a post-Google world where you can find six recipes for meth in 30 seconds on a search engine.
Vince, did you plan the transitional landscape shots and the time lapse stuff, or was that born out of necessity?
GILLIGAN: That time lapse stuff was never something I was thinking of, when I was writing the pilot. What's so great about making television is that it's a collaborative beast. It's created by a great many hands belonging to a great many people. It was somebody's idea, at some point, to do that. The technology now, with the digital SLRs, is such that pretty much every time lapse you've ever seen on the show was shot with a Canon 5D Mark II or a 7D, or a Nikon D8, which are something you could get at Best Buy.
CRANSTON: We had a crew that would come out periodically and set up for the angle they would want, and they'd stay all night, shooting it.
GILLIGAN: You can shoot those on your own. They're a lot of fun to shoot. It's actually really satisfying to shoot a time lapse. And it became a visual motif. Other shows do it, as well. It's a fun way to evoke the passage of time.
Bryan, what was your favorite scene that you acted in and just thought was awesome?
CRANSTON: It's in the very last season coming up, when I take over a small country. That was monumental. No. I keep going back to something that became a very personal thing for me. The scene when I watch Jane die resonated with me tremendously, as a father, having that type of moral struggle. He really was struggling with what he should do and what the best move was, and vacillating with the error of omission is what finally took him.
Do you ever look online to see what people are saying about the show?
GILLIGAN: I have to say that I never go on the internet for anything but porn. I literally have never Googled myself.
CRANSTON: It's fun!
GILLIGAN: It's not because I'm jaded or that I have an ego. It's quite the opposite. It's an understanding of how neurotic I am. I know there could be 100,000 good posts, and all that I'll remember is the one bad one, so what the hell is the point?
CRANSTON: There's more than one, actually.
GILLIGAN: So, it's not out of some moral purity, on my part. It's just understanding how weak I truly am. I've imparted that philosophy to the writers, but some of them look stuff up while some don't. Same with the editors, directors and actors. To each their own. It wouldn't make me feel good, so I don't do it. I do hear things, anecdotally through the grapevine, in general, about how things are playing. We just try to bulletproof the story, as well as we can. The writers are the first audience for it, and we beat our heads against the wall until it makes sense to us and until we come up with something that we like. We make sure, as much as humanly possible, that we can dot all the I's and cross all the T's, and tie up all the loose ends. We're a tough audience, the seven of us, because we've watched a lot of TV, we've watched a lot of movies and we've read a lot of books, and we can smell BS, a mile away. We're trying to shovel it ourselves, so we try to shovel as little of it as possible.
Bryan, what's it like to work in so many different mediums and genres now?
CRANSTON: Any performer would love to have the opportunity to be able to express themselves in many different areas. If you feel confident in those areas, you would hope to have the opportunity to do them, whether it's drama, comedy, musical, or whatever your interests are. I should say, and unabashedly so, that all these good things are happening for my career, right now, because of this show. This show changed my life, both professionally and personally, and I am forever grateful to [Vince] for that.
Vince, there's been talk about a possible spin-off featuring Saul (Bob Odenkirk). How real is that, and have you written anything yet?
GILLIGAN: I would very much like to see that happen. We are talking about it. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I can tell you, for sure, that I would love to see that happen.
CRANSTON: Are we all in it?!
Breaking Bad returns for its final episodes this summer on AMC.
Quote from: MacGuffin on April 15, 2013, 11:16:38 PMCRANSTON: It's going to be a wonderful surprise, these last eight episodes, for how it's resolved. I can only say that I think, personally and honestly, it's going to be very satisfying for the fans. When I read the finale, I thought, "Oh, yeah! Yep!"
GILLIGAN: I'm really proud of these last eight episodes. I've been so worried, for so many months, that we were going to screw it up. It's for you to decide, when you see it when it airs, but I think my writers and the actors would agree that we left it all on the field.
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHH cannot wait.
Wow, nice. That actually means a lot, since Vince is usually overly modest.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on April 16, 2013, 11:05:49 AM
That actually means a lot, since Vince is usually overly modest.
yeah, it means he's trying to hype up as much viewership as possible since he doesn't have another guaranteed moneymaker lined up.
i'm sure he'll deliver, though.
Quote from: Pubrick on April 16, 2013, 12:23:51 PMyeah, it means he's trying to hype up as much viewership as possible since he doesn't have another guaranteed moneymaker lined up.
I get what you're saying, but I doubt that's the case here. Having listened to him for countless hours in those podcasts, he just strikes me as an extremely sincere and self-effacing person. He constantly avoids taking credit for something great. And every comment he's made about the finale (until now, I guess) has generally been self-doubting and he kept saying "I hope we don't screw this up" and it's keeping him at night etc. It's absurd how modest he is, and I'm not even convinced it's false modesty.
I was never afraid they'd screw it up, but wow, they must've put some massive pressure on themselves to get it right.
Oh and I don't think he'll have a problem with future employment...
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on April 16, 2013, 12:48:04 PM
Oh and I don't think he'll have a problem with future employment...
getting hired is not the problem, striking gold again is the uncertainty.
Striking gold in terms of quality, sure. He'd need to bring his entire writing staff and production team with him for that to be guaranteed.
But you said "he doesn't have another guaranteed moneymaker lined up," so I thought you were going down that road. I wonder how much he gets paid for Breaking Bad, and if it will keep rolling in from DVD sales for a while. He could probably make more in film, Home Fries notwithstanding.
His last contract was comparable to Mat Weiner's ($25 million) from what I read. This was only for the final few seasons.
No wonder he didn't think twice about buying that condo in New Mexico.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on April 16, 2013, 02:41:28 PM
He could probably make more in film, Home Fries notwithstanding.
I had to withstand Home Fries, everyone else should have to, too.
FUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKK
Heres video of that Q&A (it included other cast members too, and Conan!):
'Breaking Bad' Sets Return Date for Final Episodes
Fifth and final season will resume on August 11th
Breaking Bad has set a return date for its final eight episodes. AMC's drama will return August 11th to close out its fifth season, which is the series' last. The network is also launching a new live show, Talking Bad, which will discuss the show's conclusion in-depth for fans. That will also start August 11th and air after Breaking Bad.
The Breaking Bad universe won't wink out of existence entirely: a spin-off around character Saul Goodman (Bob Odenkirk) is currently in the works. Series creator Vince Gilligan will also write and direct the show's very last episode.
The gritty drama has won a pile of awards over the past five seasons, including Emmys, Critics Choice, Writers Guild and Television Critics Association awards. Most recently, Breaking Bad won the Writers Guild Award for Best Drama Series in February, and co-star Aaron Paul in January won the Emmy for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama for the second time for his portrayal of Jesse Pinkman.
Blerg. I was hoping for a late June release.
Yeah. That is late late summer.
Personally I'm going to have a week-by-week rewatch of Season 5 Part 1 leading up to the premier. Now even that is delayed.
'Breaking Bad' Creator Vince Gilligan Reveals the Finale Will Be "Victorious" (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/30/breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-reveals-the-finale-will-be-victorious.html)
Well, worry not: showrunner Vince Gilligan has assured The Daily Beast that he isn't going to pull a Sopranos and leave us hanging.
"Anyone anxious that there won't be resolution enough at the end of these eight episodes can rest assured that the story very much reaches resolution," Gilligan said Monday in his most extensive comments on the Breaking Bad finale to date. "It will not end in any kind of open-ended sense."
Speaking from Los Angeles, where he was busy editing the final batch of episodes—"We're about halfway through," he explained—Gilligan struggled to "say something of substance" about the end of Breaking Bad without "giving anything away." After much hemming and hawing, he finally settled on a single word to describe the finale: "victorious."
"I'll say this much," Gilligan began. "I'm surprised by how victorious, in a certain sense, the ending feels to me."
Whether "victorious" means that Hank (Dean Norris) nabs Walt (Bryan Cranston), or Jesse (Aaron Paul) breaks free, or even that Walt triumphs over his (many) foes and frenemies, Gilligan wouldn't say. Walt, of course, seems to be overdue for some sort of comeuppance, but Breaking Bad has always resisted tidy moral constructions, so we wouldn't bet (just yet) on seeing Heisenberg dead or behind bars in the end.
However the series concludes, though, getting there wasn't easy, according to Gilligan.
"I was very nervous for the last year that we didn't have an interesting enough way to wrap up Breaking Bad," he confessed. "I have to say that we were in the woods for a long time with these final eight episodes. Creatively, I felt like I couldn't see the forest for the trees, and I was sort of trying to hack my way through the jungle of this story."
But eventually Gilligan and his team found what sounds like an ideal solution.
"I'm very proud of these final eight," Gilligan said Monday. "They go like gangbusters. There is no downtime in them. We are racing to the finish. I think they end the show in as satisfying a manner as we could possibly come up with."
This is old but some one just sent me the link and I haven't seen this before.
Vince Gilligan Interview "Breaking Bad" is about a guy having the world's worst midlife crisis -- a guy who's never littered or jaywalked, never broken the law in any serious way, suddenly finding himself doing something reprehensible and illegal. Why would he do such a thing? That's the experiment of 'Breaking Bad' -it's a show about change. Our main character, our hero, becomes our bad guy... And if we're going to do this, we have to be courageous about it and we have to let the chips fall where they may."
http://emmytvlegends.org/interviews/people/vince-gilligan# (http://emmytvlegends.org/interviews/people/vince-gilligan#)
Writer/Producer Vince Gilligan was interviewed for nearly four hours in Burbank, CA. He talked about knowing that he wanted to be involved with storytelling, in film or television, from a very early age. He discussed his education at NYU Film school and winning a screenwriting award which lead to his first jobs in television writing. He discussed becoming a staff writer on The X-Files after a chance meeting with series' creator Chris Carter. He spoke in great detail about his seven years as a writer, and later producer, on X-Files and described several specific episodes including the Emmy-winning "Memento Mori". He spoke about the short-lived spinoff, The Lone Gunmen, and how both series were affected by the events of 9/11. He spoke at length about his current project (then concluding season 4), the AMC drama Breaking Bad, which he created and produced. The interview was conducted by Jenni Matz on August 9, 2011.
'Breaking Bad' Spanish-Language Adaptation a Go
After a bit of confusion, it's officially true: The Spanish-language adaptation of "Breaking Bad" is a go, Sony Pictures Television said on Monday.
The adaptation, titled "Metastasis" and starring El Capo" actor Diego Trujillo as, yes, Walter Blanco, will be produced by Sony Pictures Television and Teleset.
Univision announced the project last week as part of its 2014 lineup -- but that apparently came as news to Sony, which owns "Breaking Bad." It contacted Univision and expressed its surprise, since a deal had not yet been struck, an individual with knowledge of the situation told TheWrap last week.
"Metastasis" has been cleared in most major Spanish-speaking markets, including Univision's UniMas in the United States.
Much like -- OK, pretty much exactly like -- "Breaking Bad," "Metastasis" follows the story of an unassuming chemistry teacher who is given a fatal diagnosis and enters a world of drugs and crime, where he ascends to power.
anyone else rewatching this from the beginning in preparation?
they all feel new when you watch them, how do he do it
this may sound kind of weird, but i was watching jackie brown again yesterday and i had the sudden realization that max cherry and mike have somewhat similar personalities. does anyone else agree or am i crazy?
I agree, and that's a really interesting connection to draw. Older, weathered men, seen-it-all, warm-hearted under a gruff exterior. I think Mike is much more gruff and hardcore than Max, though, but his downfall was he had a blind spot for Walt. Max, I don't think, has any such blind spot.
Quote from: ono on June 09, 2013, 05:41:28 PM
Max, I don't think, has any such blind spot.
He has a bald spot, but he 'did something about it.'
I can see the comparison, that gruff voice and thousand yard stare, I think it's mostly the way they talk. I haven't watched BB in a minute, though. I need to see that first half of season 5 again, so great. Good ol' Mike...
"Is white guilt supposed to make me forget that I run a business?"
Could come from either of their mouths
'Breaking Bad': Creator Vince Gilligan spills on the final eight episodes
Source: EW
When Breaking Bad left off last summer, tenacious DEA agent Hank Schrader (Dean Norris) was hot on the trail — and, er, toilet — of meth maker Walter White (Bryan Cranston). And when the revered drama returns with the second half of season 5 (beginning Aug. 11 on AMC), what should we brace for? Among other things, maybe a bit of self-reflection from the cancer-stricken chemistry teacher who transformed himself into a lethal drug kingpin with the help of high school dropout/partner Jesse (Aaron Paul).
"We often said in the writers' room that if Walt had a superpower, it would be not his chemistry knowledge or his ability to cook crystal meth but his ability to lie," series creator/executive producer Vince Gilligan tells EW. "Walt has been the world's greatest liar, and I think the person he lies most capably to is himself. So in these final eight episodes, perhaps the lies will cease to find traction and the scales will start to fall away from Walt's eyes. And when that happens, will Walt really begin to realize who he is? That's a question that we asked ourselves a lot in the writers' room this year."
Of course, Walt won't have too much time for navel-gazing, as he'll need to keep his eyes on his brother-in-law Hank — in addition to other adversaries. "There will be antagonistic relationships aplenty," promises Gilligan, adding: "Walt's got plenty of fight left in him. And he's got plenty of forces to fight. You met some of them. Others you haven't."
Should viewers brace for a high body count? "As the movie title goes, there will be blood," answers Gilligan. "To my mind, that's not the most interesting thing. It's the emotional moments and the character moments. ... We've got some stuff that I think is going to be truly satisfying and truly shocking and jarring. It does not always center on moments of violence." And these moments will come flying at you at "breakneck speed," he warns: "I have surprised myself at how much story there was left to tell and how quickly we tell it. You need to really settle down on the couch and pay close attention because it's going to come at you fast and furious in the final eight episodes."
Gilligan is both cautious and upbeat when it comes to discussing that highly anticipated finale. "We worked long and hard to ensure that these final eight — and, in fact, the very last episode — would satisfy an audience," he says. "I am guardedly optimistic that we have achieved just that. And furthermore, trying to be as coy as possible, trying to give away as little as possible, I feel like this ending represents on some level, however small, something of a victory for Walter White. Read into that what you will. And try to be as open-minded as possible when you watch this episode, because it may not indeed feel like a victory. Or maybe it will. ... I feel good about where it all ended up, and I can't wait for people to see it."
Asked for one last cryptic hint about the homestretch of episodes, Gilligan says: "Sometimes you see meth labs in the darndest places."
"Spills" definitely sounds spoilery.
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Yes, that joke is at least like 4 years old, but thank you for playing. :)
In other news, Byron Cramden (see: his SNL monologue) did an AMA at reddit. You know, that other site.
Yeah, well, internet.
I for one hadn't seen it before and rather enjoyed it. But perhaps this matter warrants further debate.
In other news, my flash drive with Breaking Bad Season 5 Part 1 is currently being passed around like [insert prostitute joke or Margaret Thatcher joke here]. Anticipation really seems to be building... should be interesting to see what ratings are like for the final 8.
Oh... in other other news...
If, like me, you were planning to do a week-by-week rewatch of Season 5 Part 1 leading up to the premier, you should have started on Father's Day! I'll have to watch 1 & 2 this coming Sunday.
(In other news) I'll have to watch like all five seasons the week before 'cause who can watch just one episode of BB at a time?
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go home netflix yr drunk
Breaking Bad writers will appear on new the new Sundance Channel The Writer's Room.
http://www.sundancechannel.com/blog/2013/05/sundance-channel-greenlights-the-writers-room-premiering-july-29th (http://www.sundancechannel.com/blog/2013/05/sundance-channel-greenlights-the-writers-room-premiering-july-29th)
SUNDANCE CHANNEL AND ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY SET TO PREMIERE 'THE WRITERS' ROOM' ON MONDAY, JULY 29, HOSTED BY ACADEMY AWARD©-WINNING SCREENWRITER AND 'COMMUNITY' STAR JIM RASH
PREMIERE SEASON TO FEATURE STELLAR LINE-UP OF HIT SCRIPTED SERIES 'BREAKING BAD', 'DEXTER', 'GAME OF THRONES', 'AMERICAN HORROR STORY', 'PARKS AND RECREATION' AND 'NEW GIRL'
Presented by Sundance Channel and Entertainment Weekly, THE WRITERS' ROOM is set to premiere on Monday, July 29 and will be hosted by Academy Award©-winning screenwriter (THE DESCENDANTS), comedian and actor Jim Rash (Community). The six episode half-hour series will spotlight an array of scripted television shows – from today's pioneering cable dramas, including BREAKING BAD, Dexter, Game of Thrones and American Horror Story to the most critically acclaimed and popular network sitcoms, including Parks and Recreation and New Girl. The roundtable talk show will delve deep into the world of TV's creative masterminds, divulging inside details about their smartest choices, toughest decisions and biggest mistakes. The announcement was made today by Sarah Barnett, Sundance Channel President and General Manager.
"Television today inspires communities of passionate and vocal fans who crave a never-ending amount of new information about their favorite shows," said Barnett. "Entertainment Weekly speaks to fans of television like no other brand which makes them the perfect partner for this series. We also found the perfect host in the multi-talented Jim Rash. He brings the perspective of someone who is hugely talented both behind and in front of the camera, and he intimately understands the unique highs and lows of a being a writer."
"As a writer and fan, I'm honored to have such a spectacular opportunity to sit down with colleagues whose work I respect and admire and talk about shows that have had such tremendous impact in pop culture. It's a delight to be able to share with our audience what makes their creative teams tick and share a behind-the-scenes look at how their genius programs come to life," said Rash. "Having Sundance Channel and Entertainment Weekly behind the production, is the icing on the cake."
"As longtime followers and admirers of Jim Rash's work, we're elated to have his brilliance be a part of 'The Writers' Room'. TV continues to become more and more riveting, as proven by the fantastic line-up of series featured in the premiere season and Rash, who's a writer himself, is in a unique position to explore the creative process behind these shows." said Jess Cagle, the editor of Entertainment Weekly.
Panelists include (in alphabetical order):
American Horror Story
Panelists
Brad Falchuk (Co-creator, Show-runner, Executive Producer)
Tim Minear (Writer, Executive Producer)
Ryan Murphy (Creator, Show-runner, Executive Producer)
Lily Rabe (Cast member)
Entertainment Weekly Featured Expert: Lynette Rice, West Coast News Editor
Breaking Bad
Panelists
Sam Catlin (Writer, Co-Executive Producer)
Bryan Cranston (Cast Member; Producer)
Vince Gilligan (Creator, Executive Producer, Show-runner)
Peter Gould (Writer, Co-Executive Producer)
Gennifer Hutchison (Writer/Executive Story Editor)
George Mastras (Writer, Co-Executive Producer)
Thomas Schnauz (Writer, Co-Executive Producer)
Moira Walley-Beckett (Writer, Co-Executive Producer)
Entertainment Weekly Featured Expert: Jess Cagle, Editor
Dexter
Panelists
Scott Buck (Show-runner, Executive Producer)
Sara Colleton (Executive Producer, originally brought book to network)
Manny Coto (Executive Producer, Writer)
Michael C. Hall (Executive Producer, Cast)
Wendy West (Executive Producer, Writer)
Entertainment Weekly Featured Expert: Dan Snierson, Sr. Writer
Game of Thrones
Panelists
David Benioff (Co-creator, Show-runner, Executive Producer)
D.B. Weiss (Co-creator, Show-runner, Executive Producer)
Entertainment Weekly Featured Expert: Jess Cagle, Editor
New Girl
Panelists
Brett Baer (Exeuctive Producer, Writer, Co-Show-runner)
Dave Finkel (Executive Producer, Writer, Co-Show-runner)
Elizabeth "Liz" Meriwether (Creator, Show-runner, Executive Producer)
Jake Johnson (Cast member)
Entertainment Weekly Featured Expert: Jess Cagle, Editor
Parks and Recreation
Panelists
Dan Goor (Writer, Executive Producer)
Joe Mande (Writer)
Amy Poehler (Star, Writer, Producer)
Michael Schur (Co-creator, Executive Producer, Show-runner)
Entertainment Weekly Featured Expert: Jess Cagle, Editor
Jim Rash is an Academy Award® winning writer, as well as an acclaimed actor and director. In 2012, Rash won an Oscar® for Best Adapted Screenplay for THE DESCENDANTS, which he co-wrote alongside Alexander Payne and writing partner Nat Faxon. Next up for Rash is the Fox Searchlight film, THE WAY, WAY BACK, which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. Joining his writing partner, Nat Faxon, Rash co-wrote, co-directed and stars in the film which is set for limited release on July 5th, 2013. In addition, Rash is currently writing with Faxon on an untitled action comedy for Indian Paintbrush featuring Kristen Wiig. Beyond his work in film, Rash has appeared in a number of noteworthy roles in television. He most recently completed production on season four of NBC's hit comedy series, Community, where he plays the cross-dressing educator, "Dean Pelton". The series has just been renewed for a 5th season. In addition, Rash has been seen in recurring roles on Reno 911!, That 70's Show, and Help Me Help You . Originally from Charlotte, North Carolina, Rash graduated from the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill where he received a Bachelor's Degree in radio, television and motion picture arts.
THE WRITERS' ROOM joins Sundance Channel's impressive slate of offerings including hit docu-series PUSH GIRLS, Jane Campion's critically acclaimed mini-series TOP OF THE LAKE, and the network's latest addition and first wholly owned scripted series, the critically lauded RECTIFY.
Relativity Television will produce THE WRITERS' ROOM with its CEO Tom Forman and EVP Brad Bishop serving as Executive Producers along with Neal Kendall ("Tavis Smiley"). Marco Bresaz will executive produce for Sundance Channel.
Join in the WRITERS' ROOM conversation on Twitter using #writersroom.
This sounds great. Sucks it's only half-hour episodes.
http://www.tv.com/shows/breaking-bad/community/post/omg-really-teeny-tiny-teasers-for-breaking-bads-final-season-complete-with-new-footage-video-137365334057/
Heh.
WHAT!
I didn't think I would be excited to watch this but I am after this trailer.
The Writers' Room premieres this Monday. The first episode is the Breaking Bad episode but you can find the full episode here: http://www.sundancechannel.com/videos/breaking-bad-the-writers-room-episode-1-season-1-full-episode (http://www.sundancechannel.com/videos/breaking-bad-the-writers-room-episode-1-season-1-full-episode)
I watched the premiere last night. It was great.
The Writer's Room premiere or Breaking Bad's premiere?
Breaking Bad S5E9 premiere. I had posted a light spoiler about my reaction but decided to delete it.
Reminds me of the opening of No Country For Old Men. Really good stuff.
August 11th is going to be a great birthday involving meth. First year i've been able to say that, and unfortunately probably the last year i'll be able to say it too.
Spoilers!
The teaser for the first episode was shown at ComiCon and there are descriptions of it floating around. In fact, here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/226-television-cable-and-satellite/66791178 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/226-television-cable-and-satellite/66791178)
Watch: 90-Minute Conversation With The Creator & Cast Of 'Breaking Bad'
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/watch-a-90-minute-conversation-with-the-creator-cast-of-breaking-bad-20130730
Gilligan & Cranston explain why Walt left the book in the bathroom.
Paul says "Magnets, bitch."
Rian Johnson will direct the 3rd to last ep which Gilligan says might be the series best.
Will direct?
And shouldn't the finale be the best?!
He directed it. And often last episodes are not the best. The ones before them are! A finale is a weird thing.
SPOILERS Quote from: modage on July 31, 2013, 10:44:46 AM
Rian Johnson will direct the 3rd to last ep which Gilligan says might be the series best.
The episode Rian Johnson directs is called Ozymandias which is the name of the poem Bryan Cranston reads in the most recent Breaking Bad teaser. Rian Johnson on twitter also said he directed the teaser. The poem according to Wiki "The central theme of "Ozymandias" is the inevitable decline of all leaders, and of the empires they build, however mighty in their own time." The last shot of the teaser is Heisenberg's hat in the desert like the line about the trunkless legs of stone in the desert. It all points to Heisenberg's last stand. Walter White will survive but Heisenberg and his empire wont.
Quote from: Brando on July 31, 2013, 10:03:56 PMWalter White will survive but Heisenberg and his empire wont.
I'm not so sure. I mean, where we left him, he's already fine giving up his empire. He wants to be done.
I'm just saying hopefully something more catastrophic is in the cards. Vince has said repeatedly that Walter White needs to be punished.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 31, 2013, 10:09:27 PM
Quote from: Brando on July 31, 2013, 10:03:56 PMWalter White will survive but Heisenberg and his empire wont.
I'm just saying hopefully something more catastrophic is in the cards. Vince has said repeatedly that Walter White needs to be punished.
I'm just saying Walt will survive that Rian Johnson directed episode. I think his Heisenberg persona will be metaphorically killed in the episode. I do not think the show will end with Walt surviving.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 31, 2013, 10:09:27 PM
I'm not so sure. I mean, where we left him, he's already fine giving up his empire. He wants to be done.
This is just my predictions for the upcoming 8 episodes but I don't think we've seen the last of Heisenberg.In the "I'm the one who knocks" speech, Walt said he couldn't just quit cause a multimillion dollar business will go belly up. His business now is significantly bigger than Gus' because Walt is international. Who actually killed Gus is now known. With his "Say my name" fit, he admitted he killed Gus. That secret is out and if Walt is no longer cooking then why would those who know keep his secret. The Mexican Mob boss didn't kill Gus with his partner cause he said he knew who he really was.
Walt wants to be done but I think something from his past will pull him into his Heisenberg persona.
I'm not so sure Walt dies and if he does he somehow will feel better by dying than staying alive, I'm basing this on his answer to the folowing question:
Having binge-watched, I have to ask: What can you tell me about the ending of Breaking Bad?
In my mind, the ending is a victory for Walt. You might see the episode and say, "What the fuck was he talking about?" But it's a somewhat happy ending, in my estimation.
source: http://www.vulture.com/2013/05/vince-gilligan-on-breaking-bad.html
it's the last question.
Quote from: Brando on July 31, 2013, 10:25:44 PMI'm just saying Walt will survive that Rian Johnson directed episode. I think his Heisenberg persona will be metaphorically killed in the episode.
Ah, okay. I misunderstood.
And yeah, I fully expect Walter to put the Heisenberg hat back on, because he will be forced to. We basically saw that in the flash forward.
Fernando - That is a bit spoilerish I guess, but I'll bite. Maybe Vince meant that Walt fully achieves his transformation, and that is a sort of victory. We know there are a few more things he could do, and I hope they take him there.
In that case, whether he dies or not would be somewhat irrelevant.
Walter's death would be mostly for finality, which will be needed, so I can't imagine it not happening. They can still surprise us with how it happens.
Also, I'd like to say this again... I hope Jesse plays a major (and sufficiently redemptive) role in Walter's downfall.
SPOILERS
POSSIBLE SPOILERS
PREDICTIONS
READ AT YOUR OWN RISKQuote from: Fernando on July 31, 2013, 11:05:34 PM
I'm not so sure Walt dies and if he does he somehow will feel better by dying than staying alive, I'm basing this on his answer to the folowing question:
I think the show has to end with two things. The first and most obvious is with Walt's death. The second is for the show to go out with what it is known for and that would be Walt and his crazy Plans. The new identity, disguise and the gun is the first part of Walt's final and craziest scheme that he knows will result in his death. With that comment from Vince Gilligan, Walt's death is important in the success of the plan. The outcome depends on the impression of Walt the writer's want to leave on us. Is he someone trying to absolve his sins or is he still evil. It's Walter White so it's a good bet that it will be a little of both.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 31, 2013, 11:44:01 PM
Quote from: Brando on July 31, 2013, 10:25:44 PMI'm just saying Walt will survive that Rian Johnson directed episode. I think his Heisenberg persona will be metaphorically killed in the episode.
Ah, okay. I misunderstood.
And yeah, I fully expect Walter to put the Heisenberg hat back on, because he will be forced to. We basically saw that in the flash forward.
I'm sticking to my prediction that Heisenberg will be no more after the Rian Johnson episode. So I'm changing my original perception of the flash forward. I no longer see Heisenberg. I see a defeated Walt. That makes me think in the final 8 episodes maybe an unknown enemy appears who is more Heisenberg than Heisenberg. After defeating Gus, Walt felt invincible. In the final 8, He could run into someone who is smarter and more ruthless than he is. He finally meets his match and bad shit happens to people around him.
In case you're like me and have a job and can't sit down to rewatch the whole goddamn thing, here's a recap of the first 4 and a half seasons in 8 minutes:
Only 5 more days to go.
Gr9 article. One very very minor S5 part 2 premiere teasy type spoiler. http://www.avclub.com/articles/how-breaking-bad-broke-free-of-the-clockworkuniver,101278/
And maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but there's surprisingly little teaser material this time around for BB. No leaked clips or anything other than Ozymandius and that comically short teaser earlier.
That's a good thing! I'm reading this thread with one eye mid squint to avoid spoilers. I'm also saving the torrent of good BB articles this week for after this Sunday.
If Breaking Bad took place entirely on Facebook - A recap of the first half of Season 5
http://www.someecards.com/2013/08/08/if-breaking-bad-took-place-entirely-on-facebook
HOLY S$#%
Notice how Walt has turned into Gus in a way. His mannerisms when attending to Lydia at the car wash were EXACTLY like Gus's.
I mentioned it in the shoutbox, but what about that Star Trek monologue, how amazing was that scene. I wonder if that story will thematically connect to the future story somehow, or if it was just a great little throw away gag.
Either way, I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure that story was probably from a real Spec script that one of the writers wrote once in their life, or something.
What an amazing episode. Those impossible scenes... how do you even go about executing them? And doing it so perfectly? That confrontation in the garage was literally an impossible scene, but it was flawless and exhilarating. Hank's fiery eyes, his quivering lips... I'm speechless right now.
Jesse's angst was handled well as always. Each iteration is slightly different; each time he numbs himself in a different way. And the paperboy scene was classic.
I also enjoyed Walter literally trying to hypnotize Jesse. "I need you to believe this. I need you to believe me."
Quote from: ono on August 11, 2013, 10:57:35 PM
Notice how Walt has turned into Gus in a way. His mannerisms when attending to Lydia at the car wash were EXACTLY like Gus's.
Yep, and it's not even subtle. I assume everyone noticed Walt folding the towel in front of the toilet.
never thought that scene between Hank and Walt would happen this early, what a great scene, of course Walt's way of trying to convince him to not prosecute him had to end with a threat.
my predictions:
Walt might take the ricin to off himself.
Jesse will end up in jail.
I've been jogging lately. It's annoying to keep in the earbuds so I don't listen to any music or anything. I spend a lot of time thinking about random shit including how breaking bad will end. While running, I thought I had some sort of break through: "What if soon in the season Walt realizes Hank is on to him?" It would make a great season of a cat and mouse between Hank and Walt. Hank believes he's on to Walt while Walt knows but still trying to hide his guilt. EVEN WHEN I THINK I MADE SOME SORT OF GREAT PREDICTION THE WRITERS ARE STILL A STEP A HEAD. That scene between Walt and Hank was so great. Hank was so intimidated he couldn't look him in the eyes. I thought someone or something would bring back Heisenberg but didn't consider Hank would be it.
Such a great episode. You had to expect that the Ricen would play a role in the ending since it's been such a red herring for so long.
I do remember someone on this board mentioning they thought Walt's cancer has returned. I don't feel like going back through the post to see who it was. I do remember replying to that post that I didn't think Walt's cancer was back cause it turn him back to a sympathetic character. Whoever you were you were right, I was wrong but looking to how they handle it cause they can't make Walt a sympathetic character.
the star trek monologue was too much of a sore thumb not to have some foreshadowing potential.
- there's a lot of permutations between which of the BB characters correspond to which ST characters. one thing that stuck out to me, with the theory that Walt takes something from every rival he defeats, the idea to me is that he dies a little and is born anew each time. this corresponds most directly with Badger's theory that people die in teleportation. but in true teleportation fashion, The Fly style, each copy is not perfect, which explains the mutations that Walt has experienced during his rebirths/progression to full Heisenberg.
People always talk about Walt and Heisenberg as a duality, which makes sense since he has fully transitioned to the latter, but who is Heisenberg really? how has his character being constructed? it's easy to see the progression, from self realisation "say my name" to other kinds of defining moments. the important part to me is that he is like an entirely separate character to walt, which is obvious, but it's still a figure that was born of walt. when we see HEISENBERG written on the wall of the house, it is a heavy handed metaphor (which this episode was FULL of, eg. broken mirror, money on the couch between jesse and walt, etc.) that heisenberg had grown to embody not just walt's physical body but his home, his environment,. and what was left is just an empty shell, like the empty pool, just hollowness.
Walt doesn't have to experience a literal death for this show to have a satisfying ending, but heisenberg has to be purged, painfully, and with some dire consequences -- like chekov's insides into space. he goes back to the house to retrieve this one remaining insidious relic from Heisenberg's past, inside the hollow shell of what heisenberg built (presumed dead? hence carol's reaction?) there is a tiny bit of death still left to be distributed.
finally, what i admired most about this episode was the way the writers stay true to their motto of always writing themselves into a corner. it was a literal corner this time, a closed garage at the end of a cul-de-sac. i have NO idea how they're going to get out of that garage. how the fuck can that scene continue? just incredible.
I wrote some stuff here:
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/review-breaking-bad-season-premiere-promises-all-bad-things-must-come-to-an-end-20130808
I love that the show still makes time for Badger and Skinny Pete. Things could easily be dour from here on out, but they still include some great comedic scenes. That Star Trek monologue was so perfect, I was worried they were going to cut away before it was over.
is there a podcast for the last episode?
I listen them at the amc insider podcast page but right now it doesnt show anything from season 5, not even last year's first half....
Quote from: Pubrick on August 12, 2013, 07:47:13 AM
when we see HEISENBERG written on the wall of the house, it is a heavy handed metaphor (which this episode was FULL of, eg. broken mirror, money on the couch between jesse and walt, etc.)
You also had Hank seeing Walt through the curtain then like lifting the veil pulls away the curtain to see Walt right at the time Marie calls him the devil. Jessie is sitting on a blanket covered in skulls while Walt is trying to give back the blood money.
I never put together how similar Lydia and Walt are to one another. Both are seemingly straight individuals you'd never expect to be in the meth business. They have double lives. Walt has his glasses and hat and Lydia has her bug eyed sunglasses. Lydia went Heisenberg before Walt and tried to have Mike and his men killed. She told Walt he was putting her in a box. We know what happens when you put her in a box.
Quote from: Fernando on August 12, 2013, 01:59:26 PM
is there a podcast for the last episode?
I listen them at the amc insider podcast page but right now it doesnt show anything from season 5, not even last year's first half....
I had forgot about the podcast. This is from Kelley Dixon's Twitter: AMCTV tells me they are having techical probs with podcast player!! They are ON IT and it'll be working SOON!!! TREAD LIGHTLY my friends!
EDIT: Lydia shows up at the carwash and tries to talk to Walt. Walt acts just like Gus did whenever Walt showed up at the restaurant. I'm familiar with Walt taking on the traits of people he's killed but haven't seen anyone mention that Lydia shares some of the traits of Walt and Heisenberg. Some super perceptive fans noticed that Walt puts down a towel when he is vomiting which is what Gus did in Mexico.
Quote from: Brando on August 12, 2013, 02:06:56 PMSome super perceptive fans noticed that Walt puts down a towel when he is vomiting which is what Gus did in Mexico.
Hey, I mentioned that above! It actually seemed a bit on the heavy-handed side to me, I mean the camera even panned down to look at it. Maybe I just cherished that detail from "Salud." I think I missed most of the metaphors, though.
This episode, perhaps more than any of the first eight, seems quite worthy of a rewatch. I wanted to rewatch it immediately.
I just can't get over Dean Norris's performance in the garage scene. He needs to win all the awards for that. I also appreciated how the shot of Walt was wider so we could really focus on Hank.
I'm dying to hear that podcast.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 12, 2013, 04:58:32 PM
I just can't get over Dean Norris's performance in the garage scene.
That can't be his real facial hair, right? It looked like they glued pubes to his face.
Yeah, it was weird. He has a 5:00 shadow and seems to have scraggly beard growth over that. Let's try to forget about it...
Look, not all of us grow facial hair evenly, okay?
No, I'm not taking this personally.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 12, 2013, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: Brando on August 12, 2013, 02:06:56 PMSome super perceptive fans noticed that Walt puts down a towel when he is vomiting which is what Gus did in Mexico.
Hey, I mentioned that above!
After Breaking Bad, I started to drink while I watched Dexter and the Newsroom. I must have been drunker than I thought cause I know I read everyone's post but clearly don't remember any of it cause I just reposted a lot of everyone's comments.
I can't grow a full beard either but Dean Norris' beard did make me feel a lot better about my own. According to BB logic, a goatee means you're a badass and a beard means you're an emotional wreck.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 12, 2013, 01:06:37 AM
What an amazing episode. Those impossible scenes... how do you even go about executing them? And doing it so perfectly? That confrontation in the garage was literally an impossible scene, but it was flawless and exhilarating. Hank's fiery eyes, his quivering lips... I'm speechless right now.
Can you imagine sitting down to write a scene like that? How intimidating and difficult that must be? It's the moment the show has been building to since the beginning, one fans have predicted and speculated upon endlessly and yet they still somehow come in and blow it out of the water.
From everything I've read, what separates Breaking Bad from most shows is the inordinate amount of time they spend in the writer's room and how detailed they are when they break episodes. Vince has said he wants it so any writer could take the outline and write the episode without missing a beat. From my limited knowledge it's somewhat of an unique way to work.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 12, 2013, 04:58:32 PMI just can't get over Dean Norris's performance in the garage scene. He needs to win all the awards for that. I also appreciated how the shot of Walt was wider so we could really focus on Hank.
Oh man, MVP for sure goes to Dean Norris. His face in that garage scene conveyed so muck - shock, terror, anger, heartbreak. I can't wait to watch this again.
I have one minor issue that might not make me too popular, and that's with Jesse. How many times have we started a season with him in some sort of relapse or depression? It's not out of line dramatically and Aaron Paul plays it wonderfully. It just seems, I don't know, a little tiresome. Like dude, shit or get off the pot. Why hasn't he killed himself already? My lame prediction is he teams up with Hank to bring Walt down somehow. This could also be Aaron Paul being so freaking good at depressing the everliving hell out of me that like Jesse I just want the pain to end.
The cold open was top 5 best they have done. And that ending might be top 3 for me. I screamed into a pillow when that garage door closed.
The podcast is up!
http://media.amctv.com/breakingbad/podcasts/bb-509-podcast.mp3
Quote from: Reelist on August 12, 2013, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 12, 2013, 04:58:32 PM
I just can't get over Dean Norris's performance in the garage scene.
That can't be his real facial hair, right? It looked like they glued pubes to his face.
The only blemish in an absolutely amazing episode. I had trouble looking at it. I just wanted to pull those long strands off.
Because.... well, why not.
:bravo:
A couple of things occurred to me while listening to the podcast. Walt walking outside to contemplate then has a hunch to check under his car finding the tracking device is very similar to when Gus is in the parking garage. Gus enters the parking garage stops before getting to his car and stares into space. He comes to some sort of realization that Walt and Jesse are working together walking away from his car which has a bomb stuck to his car with a magnet.
Also, a bearded Jessie is determined to give away his blood money. The bearded Walt in the 501 flashfoward gives/tips the waitress a hundred. Both are a stretch. Walt could only have hundreds.
I need to say that seeing Heisenberg written inside Walt's house gave me chills, it was almost scary to look at...
anyway, Meth Busters did an episode dedicated to Br Ba, and it's available on youtube!
I watched the Mythbusters episode last night. It was entertaining, but I was disappointed they just did the acid bathtub and the mercury fulminate explosion. I wanted them to test the magnet!
On Sunday I interviewed "Breaking Bad" writer/producer George Mastras. He's been a writer on the show since Season 1 and is responsible for the eps "Crazy Handful of Nothin," "Grilled," "Mandala," "I.F.T.," "Thirty-Eight Snub," and "Dead Freight" (which he also directed)! We talked for an hour, mostly about the process in the writers room and less about the specifics of why something happened or didn't, etc. This is Part 1, enjoy!
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/interview-inside-the-breaking-bad-writers-room-with-writer-director-george-mastras-20130813
So jealous and impressed! Great interview. Can't wait for more.
Quote from: George MastrasFor the most part, it's so thoroughly broken in the room that anybody could really write that script.
Told you bitches.
Spoils etc...
First of all, of course, awesome opening episode. I can't believe the Hank/Walt confrontation has already happened, and I can't even begin to guess what's going to happen next. Fantastic.
Started listening to the podcast, and then remembered why I don't listen to the podcast. I prefer not to see behind the curtain on this one. They reveal in the first 10 minutes of the podcast that when they wrote the flash-forward in 501 with the M60 (giant gun), AND when they wrote this week's flash-forward with the ricin they apparently had no idea where they were going with either of those things. I just can't believe thats how this show is written. Whatever works though, I guess?
Quote from: modage on August 13, 2013, 02:38:11 PM
On Sunday I interviewed "Breaking Bad" writer/producer George Mastras. He's been a writer on the show since Season 1 and is responsible for the eps "Crazy Handful of Nothin," "Grilled," "Mandala," "I.F.T.," "Thirty-Eight Snub," and "Dead Freight" (which he also directed)! We talked for an hour, mostly about the process in the writers room and less about the specifics of why something happened or didn't, etc. This is Part 1, enjoy!
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/interview-inside-the-breaking-bad-writers-room-with-writer-director-george-mastras-20130813
Great interview as always. I love viewing Dead Freight as a way to deliver a morality check to the audience. In your defense I think it is a bit of a rug-pull after all, if only in the way it very methodically gets you rooting for them.
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 13, 2013, 08:03:37 PMThey reveal in the first 10 minutes of the podcast that when they wrote the flash-forward in 501 with the M60 (giant gun), AND when they wrote this week's flash-forward with the ricin they apparently had no idea where they were going with either of those things. I just can't believe thats how this show is written. Whatever works though, I guess?
"No idea" is certainly a stretch. I've learned from this podcast that you have to read between the lines a bit, and there's definitely some false modesty at times. It's not as if they had "no idea" what these things would be used for. Obviously it's a gun and some poison, and they were going to be used against some enemy of Walt's, and Walt's list of enemies was going to change depending on where exactly they took things in the final 8, and that's what they didn't know before.
Vince has mentioned in previous podcasts that they've always known they were going to use the ricin eventually, "fire that Chekhov's gun" as he put it, so I'm sure this has been stewing for a while.
Quote from: ©brad on August 12, 2013, 08:03:05 PMI have one minor issue that might not make me too popular, and that's with Jesse. How many times have we started a season with him in some sort of relapse or depression? It's not out of line dramatically and Aaron Paul plays it wonderfully. It just seems, I don't know, a little tiresome. Like dude, shit or get off the pot. Why hasn't he killed himself already?
I know what you're saying, but it still feels right to me. It's cyclical. Jesse not starting the season in some kind of existential crisis would be like winter not arriving.
Quote from: ©brad on August 12, 2013, 08:03:05 PMMy lame prediction is he teams up with Hank to bring Walt down somehow.
I have made the same lame prediction...
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on November 28, 2012, 11:22:35 AMPerhaps Jesse and Hank team up, and all sorts of crazy antics ensue.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 31, 2013, 11:44:01 PMI'd like to say this again... I hope Jesse plays a major (and sufficiently redemptive) role in Walter's downfall.
And I still hope it's true. It doesn't seem out of the question right now. I think they should team up at least indirectly. Perhaps Hank discovers that Jesse is Heisenberg's partner, which itself would be a big revelation, but maybe he also discovers their schism and reaches out to Jesse, after pushing him up against a wall or something.
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 13, 2013, 08:03:37 PM
Started listening to the podcast, and then remembered why I don't listen to the podcast
Yeah, I get that too. I can only stand a handful of people talk about their craft, writing, stand up, anything. It's always end up just making me feel sick. But it's usually the moderators that really upset me with their questions like "where did you get teh inspiration for this scene" and crap like that. It's just annoying. This is unrelated, but the only thing I really enjoyed that was a discussion of a craft was that HBO thing, Talking Funny. Really entertaining and insightful. If anyone here likes comedy check that out, it's on youtube somewhere
you guys are loony. The podcast is great! I mean, I wish I didn't get a peak behind the curtain this early in the season, it's kinda like listening to a commentary before you've finished a movie, but I like to know the work that goes into it. I appreciate the show more as a piece of filmmaking when I'm aware of certain details in the process. I don't think it takes away from its mystique at all, if anything it just raises more questions.
Why does the podcast take so goddamn long to load on itunes?
Ah, the perennial podcast debate.
Here's the thing. This show is not a mystery. It doesn't have mythologies. Interpreting it is not that difficult. So with this podcast it's not like you're listening to the Lost writers revealing their deepest secrets. I've never felt like precious ambiguities are being spoiled. Vince often chimes in to make something more ambiguous, actually.
I understand it's personal preference, though.
Quote from: Reelist on August 14, 2013, 09:24:31 AM
it's kinda like listening to a commentary before you've finished a movie, but I like to know the work that goes into it. I appreciate the show more as a piece of filmmaking when I'm aware of certain details in the process.
That's a good point. I will probably really appreciate the podcast when I go back and listen to particular episodes, once the series is over. I didn't mean to start up the podcast debate again.
What is Hank's best worst option now? If he goes to DEA he'll be ridiculed, fired, and maybe accused of aiding and abetting Walt. If he does nothing, well forget that, Hank's not the type of person to do nothing. I think a win would be to try and keep Skylar and the kids alive at the very least, even if it means a forced retirement. Although I think Skylar singed her death warrant when she confronted Lydia at the carwash.
Ugh this show! Hurry up Sunday.
Quote from: ©brad on August 14, 2013, 03:49:51 PM
What is Hank's best worst option now? If he goes to DEA he'll be ridiculed, fired, and maybe accused of aiding and abetting Walt. If he does nothing, well forget that, Hank's not the type of person to do nothing. I think a win would be to try and keep Skylar and the kids alive at the very least, even if it means a forced retirement. Although I think Skylar singed her death warrant when she confronted Lydia at the carwash.
Ugh this show! Hurry up Sunday.
I don't think Hank is anywhere near going to the DEA with what he knows about Walt. He doesn't have nearly enough to arrest Walt. He might have enough to take to Gomez and they start to investigate secretly. I would guess maybe Hank goes to Skylar telling her what he now knows to be true. He will then be confronted that Skylar knows as well.
How is Walt going to deal with his eye? He'll have a bruise or black eye from Hank's punch. Will he be truthful with Skylar or lie to her about how he got it?
First things first, he's got to tell Marie.
That will probably set off a chain event where Marie goes to warn Skylar and learns that Skylar is complicit.
Then I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENS. :shock:
If I was Hank I'd definitely go to Home Depot, get some yellow spray paint, and spray "HEISENBERG" across Walt's livingroom wall.
I'd love it if Walt started going to Chemo just as a precaution incase this scenario ever came up, not because his cancer is back.
Hank will probably do this in his spare time. I think he knows better than to create more workplace drama. (And if he doesn't know better, that's going to be tiresome.) Hank has to get Gomez involved. He has a personal stake in this case too. Although, I guess it would be interesting to watch him try to hide this from Gomez.
Plus of course there's Jesse. There's not much else for Jesse to do right now. His beginning-of-season crisis might have been (mostly) resolved in one episode. There needs to be a Walt/Jesse connection in the evidence first. I wonder what that will be. It wasn't the security tape. Maybe Saul is the connection. Hank's most recent success was the result of following a lawyer, so that would be fresh in his mind.
As for the black eye... Now that they have a mutual respect thing going on, he can't refuse to tell Skylar, and she will want to know.
Brando, maybe you're right, maybe Hank gets to Skylar even before she sees Walt's black eye... but that doesn't ring true somehow.
I think Hank would be more cautious. He would indeed tread more lightly. I bet he's considering all kinds of horrible possibilities, including Skylar's involvement, voluntary or otherwise. I wonder if he realizes their "family problems" were related to the meth operation. Remember Skylar telling Marie that the kids were not safe with her and Walt? I wonder if Marie told Hank about that. (Hank never heard that message directly, from what I remember.)
More importantly, what will Hank do to protect himself? Or, realizing who he's up against, does he realize there's nothing he could do if Walt really wanted to eliminate him?
E: Didn't see modage's post. I guess that's possible, but I think he'll keep the secret from Marie for now, because Marie would freak out and certainly tip off Skylar (or force Hank to do so), which Hank must realize is a dumb move. A more likely scenario is Hank keeping the secret, Marie gets concerned by his behavior, causing some tension in their marriage, etc.
I just want to reiterate what a brave and badass move it was to have the Hank/Walt confrontation in this first episode. They could have cat and mouse'd that shit for 2 or 3 more episodes at least.
Some other stupid predictions:
- Lydia will threaten to harm Walt's family to get him back to work. She put a hit out on Mike, she has no qualms of killing people who stand in her way.
- Walt will cook again, at least for a little while. Hank will bust him and bring down Lydia's whole operation.
- Jesse and Hank will team up. I have no idea how. Some revelation is going to light a fire under Jesse and make him go after Walt.
Oh god my head is spinning. Predicting what will happen on this show is impossible.
I agree with JB. The last people you want to be involved in this would be the two drama queens and that would be Marie and Walt Jr.
Walt confronted Hank in hopes to convince him to call off his secret investigation. It turned into something similar to Walt's "I am the one who knocks speech." It could backfire against Walt. Hank realizing he has no idea who Walt is anymore could cause Hank to no longer treat it like he's investigating his brother in law. He starts to treat it like he's investigating the evil Heisenberg. And we all don't think Hank will go to the DEA so in standard BB fashion this Sunday's teaser will be Hank bringing it to the DEA.
Yeah, I'm sure we will be proven wrong on at least half these speculations. With the BB writers there always seems to be a third option that none of us were creative enough to imagine.
What we can probably predict is that characters will usually stay true to themselves, so that can give us a lot to go on.
I'm not sure Lydia will threaten Walt's family. She seems too cowardly to threaten... wouldn't she just take action? I don't know, how can she possibly get what she wants out of Walt? She still doesn't have much leverage against him, unless she does threaten his loved ones, in which case he will just murder her. I don't even know what her smart move is.
I got the impression that Lydia was some sort of go between Walt and who ever is pressuring Lydia from the other side. If I remember correctly, Walt was surprised to see Lydia but didn't seem surprised she knows who he really is. Lydia might be the only one who knows Heisenberg is Walter White. If she's being put in a box, she might give him up in order to save herself. Saul still has a way to contact Walt. It seems Lydia could contact him on the phone as well. Last season, she was so terrified meeting anyone in public that having her show up at the carwash was to set up she knows he's Walter White and setting something up.
Quote from: Brando on August 14, 2013, 08:45:51 PMLast season, she was so terrified meeting anyone in public that having her show up at the carwash was to set up she knows he's Walter White and setting something up.
Great point. That should have been a red flag. Giant sunglasses aside, it's a big deal for her to do that. She could just be that desperate, and she does seem genuinely scared of Skyler, but it's more likely that you're right and something is being set up there.
Forget if this has been linked yet so here ya go: http://www.amctv.com/talking-bad/videos/episode-509-online-bonus-video-talking-bad
Such a long wait between weeks, so hearing others talk about it (here, the podcast, that little tidbit above) all does fine to quench the thirst.
I rarely speculate for reasons previously cited. The writers have months to drum up the most creative yet sensical paths for their characters. Though I am intrigued when others bring out things that make good points yet the writers never see them and are therefore dropped. For instance: I doubt too much more can be made of Lydia's appearance at the car wash other than that she's desperate. There's nothing deeper to it than that. Skyler was guarding her territory much in the way Walt did when he saw the meth head shopping for supplies at the hardware store a few seasons ago and told him and his buddy to stay out of his territory too (after giving him advice no less -- still a WTF moment if ever there was one).
As for the ricin, no way will Walt be using it on himself. He knows what happens and will not go out with that. He has a gun. If he offs himself, he'll use that. But I really think he has too much pride to ever bring about his own demise directly.
Quote from: ono on August 14, 2013, 11:28:59 PMForget if this has been linked yet so here ya go: http://www.amctv.com/talking-bad/videos/episode-509-online-bonus-video-talking-bad
I was surprised Vince actually explained how Walt probably poisoned Brock.
Breaking bad as a romantic comedy
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 14, 2013, 04:38:28 PM
Plus of course there's Jesse. There's not much else for Jesse to do right now. His beginning-of-season crisis might have been (mostly) resolved in one episode. There needs to be a Walt/Jesse connection in the evidence first. I wonder what that will be. It wasn't the security tape. Maybe Saul is the connection. Hank's most recent success was the result of following a lawyer, so that would be fresh in his mind.
I think the connection could be Jesse's car being where Tuco died, there's no physical evidence of Walt being there but if Hank puts two and two together he will remember Walter missing for a few days, and of course the reason he went there was to find Walt only he found and killed Tuco instead, then there's the connection of the call made to Hank about Marie's "accident", which Hank already told Walt about it.
I think Hank has enough to approach Jesse "if" he decides to take that road.
Link includes predictions and possible spoilers.
don't remember all of Walt's murderous traits, here is a list: http://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/breaking-bad-easter-eggs-that-will-blow-your-mind (http://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/breaking-bad-easter-eggs-that-will-blow-your-mind)
Quote from: Fernando on August 15, 2013, 11:52:40 AM
I think Hank has enough to approach Jesse "if" he decides to take that road.
I think Lydia's next move might be to hit up Jesse too. None of which will go over well with Jesse.
I think Hank would have a better shot with Jesse than Lydia; beats me how she could convince Jesse to go back or do something for her...
btw, I wonder if Hank will see a connection between Lydia and Walt, she still might have good points for letting Hank know about the gps tracker so maybe right now she isn't under Hank's radar...
It would be an interesting twist to find out that Walt left his cook in the hands of Todd. It makes since cause we left off with Walt teaching him how to cook. It also allows for the writers to bring back his character for the final 8.
I feel like a guilt-ridden Jesse would open up to Hank. Their last antagonistic experience was a long time ago.
Jesse knowing about Mike could be insufficient. Shouldn't Jesse have some other discovery about Walt that causes him to fully turn? There's not much available in that department, and the lily of the valley has been disposed of.
I suppose he could go to Hank about Lydia, but I don't see that happening. He lacks evidence against Lydia and would be essentially turning himself in.
It just works better if Hank approaches Jesse and does it in an unofficial capacity. I really want that to happen for some reason. There would be something perfectly redemptive and "full circle" about them teaming up, since the series began with Hank chasing after him.
Now you can read part 2 of my interview with writer/producer George Mastras. I asked him about reverse-engineering vs. having everything planned out in advance, writing themselves into a corner, the decision to jump ahead in time and if they felt any special pressure to tie up all the loose ends with the final episodes. Let me know what you think!
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/interview-breaking-bad-writer-producer-george-mastras-talks-wrapping-up-the-series-much-more-20130813
Very nice. You're a great interviewer Mod. I loved the question about how does it feel to be one of the few people on the planet to know how it all ends.
The part when you ask about the jump in quality from season 1 to 2 was ballsy! I have to say I didn't notice such a drastic jump.
This was definitely a connector episode, but probably one of the best they've done. Certainly more exciting than some of them from Season 4.
But what I loved about the episode is how deeply everything rang true. Just across the board, from one scene to the next, beginning to end. Skylar's reaction to Hank, Marie's reaction to the truth (how tricky must that have been?), Lydia's situation, and of course the Hank/Jesse connection.
Speaking of which, if it does indeed materialize, I imagined their team-up being less official. Maybe Hank can still take it in that direction.
Podcast updates from Kelley Dixon:
Ok here's the deal. The threat of hackers has AMC and Sony on alert so I can't deliver them till after 10 on Sunday. They get em online asap
Podcasts should be on amctv by monday am, itunes hopefully by Tuesday sometime. They are AWESOME--WORTH THE WAIT!! SAVOUR!!
My main takeaway from this episode is something I haven't seen mentioned in any recap yet: this was Skyler's "Gray Matter" moment. Though she's been complicit in Walt's bad behavior for a while now, prior to this episode you could have made the case that she was scared, had no choice, etc. But when Hank offers her a way out and the thing she's said she wanted all along (safety for her kids) and she chooses to stay and to keep the money (as per Walt's wishes), she's essentially doomed herself as far as "Breaking Bad"'s moral universe is concerned. She will not get out of this clean.
Conversely, Jesse, I'm now convinced will end up making it out okay. He's done horrible things but he's also repented for them. He's put himself through hell before anyone else can do the sentencing. But guilt alone isn't enough to absolve him, however, giving away ALL of his money is. By Skyler deciding to hold onto the money and Jesse giving his away it becomes pretty clear who the show plans on bringing justice towards.
There is only six episodes left. That's not a lot but so much has happened in these last two episodes that six seems like an entire season. Breaking Bad has always moved at a measured pace that I can't recall any two conjoining episodes this much has happened outside the two final episodes of a season.
Lady Heisenberg and her Jesse really made an entrance. I have no idea how Walt will be dragged back into it by these two but can't wait to find out. These finally 8 were made for binge viewing.
We know Saul is looking for Jesse. He could learn he's been arrested and show up and see him talking to Hank. If Jesse doesn't tell Hank anything, that might be enough for Walt to kill Jesse. If Jesse does agree to help, Saul could still find out.
Quote from: modage on August 15, 2013, 08:21:14 PM
Now you can read part 2 of my interview with writer/producer George Mastras. I asked him about reverse-engineering vs. having everything planned out in advance, writing themselves into a corner, the decision to jump ahead in time and if they felt any special pressure to tie up all the loose ends with the final episodes. Let me know what you think!
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/interview-breaking-bad-writer-producer-george-mastras-talks-wrapping-up-the-series-much-more-20130813
Great interview. Working in the Breaking Bad writer's rooms sounds to be a difficult and almost impossible task while being very enjoyable.
Definitely a connector episode, but a great one at that.
I'm really ready for Jesse to do something now. I understand his relapse but it's just not that interesting dramatically.
The podcast is up on the website (http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/insider-podcast-season-5) and iTunes.
He's my crazy theory on whats going to happen (I'm sure all of which will go to shit after next week's episode):
Walt will turn himself in to the DEA. He won't admit to being the full on mastermind behind everything, just the cook behind the blue meth. He will offer to help bring down the "real mastermind," Lydia, in exchange for his family's safety and some degree of immunity. By doing this he'll keep his family and his money, and get Hank fired from the DEA. He'll help the DEA bring down Lydia, Todd, and some of her new crazy crew of Aryans and then the DEA will place him and his family in New Hampshire under witness protection. All is well for everyone (except Hank) until the Aryans find Walt's family and kill them. Walt heads back to New Mexico to get a big gun and some poison and take everyone out once and for all. After he takes them out he goes to get a barrel of money. Hank is there waiting for him, Walt says "I'm finished!" then Hank puts a bullet in his head. Fade to Black. You Can't Always Get What You Want credits music.
...Oh and Jesse will help Hank figure out where the money is or something.
For that he would have to stretch the truth into something not even resembling reality, and he has no evidence with which to do that. Also, Hank would be involved and possibly even in charge on the DEA side. There's no going around him. How would he get Hank fired?
What's the deal with the kid and the yellow remote control car outside of Hank's house?
Quote from: Freddie on August 19, 2013, 08:08:09 PM
What's the deal with the kid and the yellow remote control car outside of Hank's house?
It's a call back to season 1. He was outside driving another remote control car when Marie ran over it. I think it was used these last two episodes to show there was no jump in time.
Prediction: the money is lost forever after Walt Jr. finds the lottery ticket on the fridge, discovers it's a $200 winner, and cashes it in. He spends all the money on late night breakfast at Denny's with Lewis.
Lets say Jesse cooperates with Hank. It's still a drug addict/dealer's word against a cancer patient carwash owner. I personally can't think of any physical evidence Jesse might have on Walt. It might be enough for them to bring Walt in but I'm sure Saul could get him out. I don't see enough to charge him. Would Hank want to do that? It only shows Walt that Jesse is talking.
The thing that is weighing the heaviest of Jesse is death of the dirt bike kid. The kid and Mike's death is why Jesse is where he is right now. He could tell them how the kid died. Jesse could say I'll tell you everything but you have to arrest Todd. Lady Heisenberg is now without a cook.
So where was Walt Jr during last episode?
One of the most brilliant things that is happening is that everyone is starting to look like Heisenberg. From at least two of the drug henchmen sporting bald heads and identical goatees to the Hank's bud at the DEA prominently sporting Walt's facial hair (and even the other guy, briefly glimpsed as Hank returns to work, with the Yosemite Sam mustache kinda ties into this theme). So great.
As much as people are saying Skyler is "breaking bad", I just don't see that. She's still maintaining the same philosophy on the matter as she always has. Except now Hank knows, but with no evidence. If she tells hank it all, she knows that her kids will know the truth about Walt and her family may be broken apart. She doesn't want that.
I really wish this show wasn't 45 minutes a week. Last episode was such a tease. This show requires a full hour at least a week in order for me to be satisfied in one viewing. I was so used to binging that this is just excruciating.
**
Quote from: Ghostboy on August 19, 2013, 10:59:46 PM
(and even the other guy, briefly glimpsed as Hank returns to work, with the Yosemite Sam mustache kinda ties into this theme). So great.
This totally caught my eye while watching but I didnt connect it to anything until now. Interesting. Why would everyone start looking like Walt.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 03, 2012, 03:42:23 AM
Oh and did anyone else notice Michael Bowen? I half expected Walt's response to be "you have to be nicer to me."
Dude. I totally missed that! I never would've guessed it was Michael Bowen. Goddamn, that's a good makeup job.
I still can't believe it's him.
Uncle Jack
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.amcnetworks.com%2Fblogs.amctv.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fmt-legacy%2Fbreaking-bad%2FBB-S5-Harry-Bowen-Interview-325.jpg&hash=9b324b2657c653e517a6507e584c35001840f9db)
Buck the rapist
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fturnerwatson.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F01%2Fbowen.gif&hash=104089e81ad3907770b317523f64ffe43d92fc27)
Holy hell. That confession video was amazing to watch. It just went on and on, and the stunned silence between Hank and Marie was so haunting. Shit is happening y'all. There's really not an ounce of fat in these episodes.
Some strays:
- I always usually can anticipate when an episode is about to end, but this is one of the first ones that caught me completely off guard.
- The scene in the Mexican restaurant along with the confession sequence both belong in the Breaking Bad pantheon of awesome.
- Cold open was under-whelming. It didn't tell us anything new, except that Todd has this weird wanting-to-please-daddy complex with Walt and is proactively keeping him up to speed on things. There was no holy-shit factor as there has been with the most recent teasers. My guess is Todd will start fucking up the cook and his Nazi brethren/Lydia will threaten Walt.
- The internet is abuzz with criticism about Jesse's big revelation. The reveal is admittedly a bit clunky and you could nitpick it if you want, but at this point I'm not gonna bitch. It had to happen somehow, and I like how they handled it with just a look. I didn't really understand why having an 1/8 of weed on him would be such a catastrophe with Mr. Vacuum guy. But I guess dude doesn't mess around and would want someone completely sober who will follow his instructions.
Yeah, that "confession" tape is one of the most genius things they've ever done on the show. I was happy to learn that Vince pitched that idea. I would continue to express how much I loved it, but it really speaks for itself.
People are complaining about the ricin discovery, really? I thought it was great. And yes, it makes sense that the disappearer wouldn't want Jesse to have anything illegal on him in case they get pulled over or something.
In the podcast they described the cold open as "housekeeping," which kind of surprised me. But the shot of them driving into New Mexico is still a bit foreboding. I'm sure something will come of that.
Quote from: ©brad on August 26, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
Holy hell. That confession video was amazing to watch. It just went on and on, and the stunned silence between Hank and Marie was so haunting. Shit is happening y'all. There's really not an ounce of fat in these episodes.
So many things were going through my mind during that confession. Cranston's performance was incredible. I think that video was Walt at his most evil. We've seen him let a girl die, kill people and be a monster. This was calm, calculated and targeted towards his family. I had the same reaction to it as Marie and Hank. I was in horror. Walt was so believable and everything lined up so perfectly culminating in the reveal of Hank's medical bills being paid by drug money that anyone who sees the video would believe it.
Jesse said he would never talk to Hank but he might he talk to someone else. Hank is so determined that he be the one to bring in Walt that he might end up going down with him. It's been a common prediction that Hank will be the hero and bring down Walt. Hank already said his career is over once this gets out. Hank's pride might cause him and Marie go down with Walt and Skyler.
During the scene where Jesse is getting ready to leave I got the impression that was going to be the last time I saw Jesse. I've seen shows with similar scenes with a departing character and the scenes felt the same way.
Quote from: ©brad on August 26, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
- The internet is abuzz with criticism about Jesse's big revelation. The reveal is admittedly a bit clunky and you could nitpick it if you want, but at this point I'm not gonna bitch. It had to happen somehow, and I like how they handled it with just a look. I didn't really understand why having an 1/8 of weed on him would be such a catastrophe with Mr. Vacuum guy. But I guess dude doesn't mess around and would want someone completely sober who will follow his instructions.
I didn't have a problem with it either for the reason that was what Jesse originally thought happened. He didn't come up with it out of the blue. I think it could have been more subtle. Jesse didn't need any evidence that Walt killed Mike so I think it could have been a slight nudge to make Jesse come to that realization.
Quote from: ©brad on August 26, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
- The scene in the Mexican restaurant along with the confession sequence both belong in the Breaking Bad pantheon of awesome.
Only Breaking Bad could get away with setting that scene in that kind of restaurant with that kind of decor.
My new theory: After the first episode of this half of the season, there were all the theories about the jacket Walt wears in the flash-forward, and how it's similar to Jesse's jacket, implying that Walt has killed Jesse by that point. Anyone notice Todd's jacket in this episode...?
New theory #B: the ricin ends up in that guacamole.
If the ricin revelation (ricelation?) happened last season I might have had a problem with it. He does jump to a few conclusions there. That weed looked really easy swipe, but a single cigarette out of a pack would take some doing. Whatever though, there's only so much Breaking Bad left and I'll be damned if I don't just sit back and enjoy every moment of it. I'm glad Jesse is finally doing something. And I hope Huell's pickpocket skillz come into play when the Saul Spinoff happens.
Here's a question about the confession video: why is Marie taking the $177k the nail in the coffin? To me it's the only part of the confession that doesn't quite add up. If Hank really was the drug kingpin Walt is saying he is, wouldn't he have his own millions to spend on his medical bills? Having said that, the confession video is brilliant.
Quote from: polkablues on August 26, 2013, 05:26:31 PM
My new theory: After the first episode of this half of the season, there were all the theories about the jacket Walt wears in the flash-forward, and how it's similar to Jesse's jacket, implying that Walt has killed Jesse by that point. Anyone notice Todd's jacket in this episode...?
The podcast have ruined me taking any clues from the flash forwards. Every time the writers mention the flash forwards it's followed by an admission that they had no idea at the time why Walt was doing what he was doing.
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 26, 2013, 06:25:55 PM
That weed looked really easy swipe, but a single cigarette out of a pack would take some doing.
Walt knew what kind of cigarettes Jesse smoked. I'm pretty sure they just replaced Jesse's pack with an entirely new pack.
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 26, 2013, 06:25:55 PM
Here's a question about the confession video: why is Marie taking the $177k the nail in the coffin? To me it's the only part of the confession that doesn't quite add up. If Hank really was the drug kingpin Walt is saying he is, wouldn't he have his own millions to spend on his medical bills? Having said that, the confession video is brilliant.
Walt said Hank sold Walt into servitude then Hank and Gus had a falling out leaving Hank on the outside. It's not really important cause the most important and most damning part is that head of the DEA's $177k worth of medical bills were paid using drug money. I'm sure everyone would focus on that rather then think about why he didn't have the cash.
Quote from: Brando on August 26, 2013, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Tictacbk on August 26, 2013, 06:25:55 PM
That weed looked really easy swipe, but a single cigarette out of a pack would take some doing.
Walt knew what kind of cigarettes Jesse smoked. I'm pretty sure they just replaced Jesse's pack with an entirely new pack.
Ah yes. Good call. I guess I just had that image of Saul holding the cigarette in a plastic baggy burned into my brain.
Stupid question I know, but are there any non-torrent ways to watch episodes online? I only have a work computer at the moment and can't use it for torrents.
I subscribe on iTunes.
Google "Breaking Bad Streaming." Lots of sites just streaming it, pretty much an hour or so after it premieres.
http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/breaking_bad/season_5.html (http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/breaking_bad/season_5.html)
Thanks all!
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/636264ec55/dean-norris-spoils-breaking-bad
ok i think ive recovered enough to speak on this episode.
some things that people havent mentioned, and some that have been:
- the hug scene made me cry like a little girl. the manipulation that walt conducts at this point in his life is confoundingly realistic. he is literally one of those people that you can never trust because even the truth is a lie.
- i think that the cold open was amazing. we've never seen todd that animated. i believe that the beginning that we dont see of the tarantino-esque train story is uncle jack asking him how they could get some more because the barrel looks half empty when they drive away. its also important because they're officially beginning the new cook operation in new mexico. declans was in arizona, so now the blue meth will show up again right in town at a higher quality. i like the deja vu of the blood on the shoe, it reminded me of mikes sleeve after boxcutter.
- the confession is flawless because of you guys argument about the money. as hank said, the video is a threat, and he knows that hank doesnt know about the money. hes showing hank that he truly is involved in a factual way that is a blow to him, while layering it into a lie of hank being involved. genius as fuck.
- i dont know how much you guys want to predict but, walts house is not burned to the ground in the flash forward, so someone stops jesse. most likely walt, who kills jesse, takes his jacket, fakes his death and trashes his own house, sending the video and blaming the vandalism as well on hank. just saying.
I'm calling it now, there's no way in hell Jesse doesn't survive until at least the final episode.
The $177k bothers me, too.
If Walt had said he fronted it to Hank, like when Jesse fronted Walt some money when he needed it, it would make more sense to me.
Then again, that makes Hank still not have money.
Eh, I don't know.
Frozen gun though...
Quote from: polkablues on August 26, 2013, 10:33:17 PM
I'm calling it now, there's no way in hell Jesse doesn't survive until at least the final episode.
I'm calling it now, I think Jesse will survive the series.
The show would really lose something without Jesse, I would applaud the balls it would take to kill him off before the finale, but it just doesn't seem like they would do that. I'd be willing to bet some other main characters get it before then. Hank went so long (almost comically) without discovering Walt and that is being factored into the writing, which is a stroke of genius. The DEA discovering Heisenberg would totally ruin him, so I would expect him to pull something rash.
Quote from: 03 on August 26, 2013, 08:47:09 PM
- the hug scene made me cry like a little girl.
Me too. Totally lost it.
Quote from: ©brad on August 26, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
- Cold open was under-whelming.
i felt the same way. i'm sure it is leading up to a big payoff but it didn't have the mystique they usually have.
it reminded me of this:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNutir0f.jpg&hash=dab804ebc7b119af61417409dcb6d745252baab6)
at the end of the episode all i could think was "when are they getting to the fireworks factory!"
the only thing that was truly genius was the confession, no one could've predicted that. maybe it's the fault of talking about this all the time that has made "necessary" or "safely predicted" scenes feel like they're just going through the motions. almost the whole episode was filled with them, these are scenes that feel like they had to happen:
-jesse finds out about the ricin. definitely not their best written moment, but like someone else said i am going to just take what i can get at this point.
-the scene with the two couples in the taco restaurant, was that really necessary? it felt forced just as a way of giving them the confession DVD. nothing else of importance came of that scene.
-jesse not saying anything to Hank.. that felt like the writers wrote themselves into a corner and them said "nah let's not do this" and just backed out, again with very little of actual importance coming as a result of it.
-the whole thing about jesse leaving and starting a new life, that was NEVER going to happen.. there was no tension in that scene regardless of how much they jerked the camera around and how much they pumped up the score. that's why the ricin fell flat too.
the whole episode felt like it lacked energy of the previous ones. i'm jealous of people getting such emotional reaction out of that desert scene. i appreciate the psychology of it but jesse has been hysterical for so long now i just don't care. and once again at the end he's going nuts.. come on, is he trying to win the Shelley Duvall award for longest sustained mental breakdown?
my only prediction, which i've mentioned before, is that Walt doesn't have to die. i hope he lives and loses everything. that would be bittersweet justice and more interesting than having some dude yell like a maniac.
Quote from: Pubrick on August 27, 2013, 11:43:56 AM-the scene with the two couples in the taco restaurant, was that really necessary? it felt forced just as a way of giving them the confession DVD. nothing else of importance came of that scene.
Really? Watch it again. That scene was mostly about Skyler. About her soul shriveling a little more as she prepared to betray Marie and Hank with that kind of finality. Skyler and Walt were hoping to talk them down, even if they knew there was a very small chance. The confession tape was a last resort, and of course they had to take one last courteous step to avoid it.
Quote from: Pubrick on August 27, 2013, 11:43:56 AM-jesse not saying anything to Hank.. that felt like the writers wrote themselves into a corner and them said "nah let's not do this" and just backed out, again with very little of actual importance coming as a result of it.
I also disagree here. We learned that Jesse doesn't want to deal with Hank, but that he might be open to talking to someone else (when he says "not you"). Who knows what form that might take, or if Jesse will cooperate with law enforcement at all, or if perhaps Jesse is so desperate now that he will talk to Hank. Whatever the outcome, it was crucial to re-establish the Hank/Jesse relationship. That scene also played into Hank's ongoing failure, which we see on his face when he comes home that night.
im gonna pull a jeremy and say the podcast is up
Finally caught up to the latest episode after being behind for two seasons. Holy shit man.
I am seriously loving Season 5, it's already my favourite.
Quote from: ©brad on August 27, 2013, 12:29:24 AM
I'm calling it now, I think Jesse will survive the series.
I feel if anyone should kill Walt it should be Jessie.
Probably the least awesome episode of the season so far but it had some really cool moments.
It's totally fallen apart for Walt and Jesse but some part of me wishes/expects Jesse and Walt to be together in the one year later part.
Also, I am now questioning Hank's good-guyness.
Quote from: Lottery on September 02, 2013, 01:41:53 AM
Also, I am now questioning Hank's good-guyness.
How so? I mean, if the head of the DEA has to sacrifice a troubled kid to catch one of the biggest meth makers in the--hell, the world?--you think he's not going to taken that chance. Sure, as an audience, we sympathize with Jesse, I do too (i would love to see walt and jesse be buddys again more than anything) but Hank will--and should--do anything to catch Heisenberg. I don't think that makes him a bad guy. Now, what he did brings up the question "can jesse trust him" which is now: not with his life.
also the question 'does hank love jesse as much as walt' which is a no
and can we talk about how heartbreaking it is to see them like this. when hank was telling jesse of how walt loves him more than anything. I think walt does genuinely care for jesse regardless of everything that's happen.
I mean it's logical but the way he said it was interesting. Everyone is trying to kill someone or have someone dead at this stage. Walt spent this episode wanting to talk with Jesse but the last few moments hint that he may have to take care of him (or in the next episode, the situation will be defused easily and he just wants Jesse captured by force).
So Todd's uncle's nazi gang will probably play a big part in the last few episodes it seems.
Quote from: Lottery on September 02, 2013, 01:41:53 AM
Probably the least awesome episode of the season so far but it had some really cool moments.
It's totally fallen apart for Walt and Jesse but some part of me wishes/expects Jesse and Walt to be together in the one year later part.
Oh, I loved it. We have Dave and his guitar and Marie quoting poison from Wikipedia. Walt and his lies (it's always funny to observe him when he's manufacturing one) Skyler who just doesn't give a shit about killing someone else at this point. I though : "Walt, why do you lie to your wife? You don't have to. Fuck you." Marie is great. The Purple Mad Queen. I thought Hank wanted to take care of Jesse, even if he's working him in order to get what he wants, Walt (and he wants Walt so badly -anger, anger, anger.) But he doesn't care about Jesse. Jesse can die. Who cares? Walt. Well, he
did. And that's sad...Sad, yes; but Jesse has an idea and he smiles. Oh. And nazis. I'm just listing the episode but it's my favorite episode of the season so far. :bravo:
4 episodes left? I don't know how they'll deal with it, but I'm excited.
Best thing about the episode for mey was it setting even more things in motion and really seeing the characters for who they are. Very much excited for the next few episodes. What I'm really hyped for is seeing how the 'one year later' part actually occurs. Like does Walt have anyone anymore at that point?
And Walt Jr is still oblivious. Walt has been doing a fair job. Unless this somehow happens:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F31.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m9t5adi7ES1qzg8s7o1_500.jpg&hash=7b7cb0dd20ec1714495591c5f78958e6453cdac5)
Quote from: Drenka on September 02, 2013, 06:06:23 AM
Skyler who just doesn't give a shit about killing someone else at this point.
That has definitely been the most "terrifying" moment for me this season (so far). The look on her face and her vocal tonality as she said "WHAT'S ONE MORE?". Fucking goosebumps. If Walter by himself was a menace, don't even want to imagine now with a psycho wife.
Anyone thought Marie was really hot in this episode? She's never been "bad looking" by any means, but in this episode she was just fucking hot.
I'm tired of Jesse crying every episode, it's gotten old and downright pathetic. I loved it when they gave him that DEA coffee mug. Hah. They should've just have a rat walk across Hank's living room and hit us over the head with it like at the end of The Departed.
Favorite line for me had to be : "Mr. White is gay for me. Everyone knows that!".
Second favorite: "Mr. White, he's the devil. He is smarter than you, he is luckier than you.
Whatever you think is supposed to happen, I'm telling you, the exact, reverse opposite of that is going to happen."
^ See? You guys's crappy "predictions" are worthless. Just shut the fuck up and surf the wave until the bitter end like everyone else.
Exactly what Freddie said.
Marie = super fucking hot as she listened to Hank explain why Jesse should stay at theirs.
Episode suddenly came to life when Skyler dropped the "WHAT'S ONE MORE???" line.
If Walt brought Skyler in fully and she became Mrs. Heisenburg, they would rule the galaxy together.
No more predictions I'm just curious to see if Lydia comes back into this?
Bah, prediction and speculation are always part of the fun. There's always that contradiction of never wanting to be spoiled but biting your fingernails and desperately thinking about how a situation will resolve itself. Lydia will most definitely come back into the mix I feel.
On a vaguely related topic- did anyone find Lydia almost distractingly eye-catching during the desert shootout with Declan and Todd?
Must have been the blue.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lostinthemultiplex.com%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Ffilms%2Fbreaking-bad%2FS05E10_Buried%2Fbreaking-bad_s05e10_todd-lydia.jpg&hash=a15dd96aae9385d6403ef66f202562d03d26dbc2)
Quote from: max from fearless on September 02, 2013, 07:57:41 AM
If Walt brought Skyler in fully and she became Mrs. Heisenburg
Someone on facebook called her "Lady MacMeth", I thought that was funny and appropriate.
Something I just remembered, did you guys noticed the books on the shelf before Jesse snitches:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.org%2F56v1l9ta2%2Fbreaking.jpg&hash=8a4894018a56763db75fe4801f3b70df51459b8e)
- THE RAT
- The dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_book) (http://www.amazon.com/Dutch-Teri-Woods/dp/0446551538) (Both relevant)
- THE FINAL DAYS
- The indians book
- DEADWOOD
- DESTINY
- BIG SECRETS
- THE MONEY HARVEST
- Rainbow's end - the crash of 1929
Because of shitty quality, I can't read everything clearly. But those are the most visible ones for a reason. Shit is crazy.
the greatest show of all time and you idiots are talking about how hot marie is?
way to set the bar low on what we could be discussing.
anyway this episode was brilliant. what does Jesse mean when he says "hit him where he lives"?
Quote from: Pubrick on September 02, 2013, 10:18:38 AM
what does Jesse mean when he says "hit him where he lives"?
He's talking about Walt's money. Next episode is called ""To'hajiilee"", supposedly that's the area of the desert where Walt hid his money and it's also where Jesse and Walt cooked for the first time.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmetrouk2.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F08%2Ftohajiilee.jpg%3Fw%3D650%26amp%3Bh%3D289%26amp%3Bcrop%3D1%23038%3Bh%3D377&hash=10a67e4f88d2c570a8a5356271e1a6cba693c46e)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmetrouk2.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F08%2Ftohajiilee-2.jpg%3Fw%3D650%26amp%3Bh%3D743%26amp%3Bcrop%3D1%23038%3Bh%3D1172&hash=cbfac401a3fd4e08122523b5a2c3bdc66781dc64)
Jesse knows the only thing Walt gives a fuck about is his money and his name. Next episode we might see Walt lose his fortune. (Now you got me doing fucking predictions, hypocritical as fuck).
there's nothing wrong with predictions, that's half the fun of the show. kudos to whoever you're stealing these pics/info from.
anyway that's cool. unless walt leads them there like an idiot, they'll have to figure out the lottery ticket coordinates, which only he knows about. seems quite unlikely.
Quote from: Freddie on September 02, 2013, 08:10:08 AM
Quote from: max from fearless on September 02, 2013, 07:57:41 AM
If Walt brought Skyler in fully and she became Mrs. Heisenburg
Someone on facebook called her "Lady MacMeth", I thought that was funny and appropriate.
Something I just remembered, did you guys noticed the books on the shelf before Jesse snitches:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.org%2F56v1l9ta2%2Fbreaking.jpg&hash=8a4894018a56763db75fe4801f3b70df51459b8e)
- THE RAT
- The dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_book) (http://www.amazon.com/Dutch-Teri-Woods/dp/0446551538) (Both relevant)
- THE FINAL DAYS
- The indians book
- DEADWOOD
- DESTINY
- BIG SECRETS
- THE MONEY HARVEST
- Rainbow's end - the crash of 1929
Because of shitty quality, I can't read everything clearly. But those are the most visible ones for a reason. Shit is crazy.
It said DEA on his coffee cup but isn't it also a hint that he might not make it until the last episode? I saw it as the viewer might added a D on the cup.
The opening was really intense. When Walt walked into the bedroom and the camera started to dolly backwards, I thought that was going to be it. I thought Jesse's shoes would walk into frame and we would have a western showdown between Walt and Jesse right there in the hallway.
Albuquerque has some really nice hotels with inside pools and spacious rooms that are really nicely decorated with moody lighting.
Hank has lost it. He's crazier than Marie. Hank is so determined to get Walt that I'm still thinking it's going to lead to his downfall. He's just acting stupid. He wanted to put Jesse in the system. They wouldn't have gotten anything from Walt with the bug. He was willing to sacrifice Jesse. I think Hank might end up doing something really stupid and get himself or somebody hurt.
The magnet and the train heist were both Jesse's plan. It would make sense that Jesse would take all he's learned from Walt, form it in some sort of wild Waltesque scheme and lead to Walt's demise. Jesse vs Walt, crazy plan vs crazy plan.
Targeting Walt's money does make sense cause it's the only thing tying him to being Heisenberg but they're trying arrest Walt for murder and being Heisenberg so that can't be the plan or all of it.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 02, 2013, 10:18:38 AM
what does Jesse mean when he says "hit him where he lives"?
My guess would be his empire. Walt is out but is still connected to the empire he built. Walt's been naive when it's come to being in the drug business. Jesse was always smarter and should know one can't walk away that easy. Jesse could have a plan to fuck up some shit and cause Walt's empire to collapse around him. It'll bring Walt back into it and they'll be able to catch him in the act.
Quote from: Lottery on September 02, 2013, 01:41:53 AM
Also, I am now questioning Hank's good-guyness.
Agree. I think most people assumed this final season would be about setting up Hank as the unexpected hero of this story to bring down Walt but it's clearly not going to be that easy. The show is going out of its way to paint both Hank and Marie as not without faults that may come back around karma-wise. Hank will stop at nothing to bring Walt down even if it means Jesse dies in the process is pretty not cool and Marie fantasizing about poisoning Walt for revenge isn't as bad as actually doing it but it shows that what separates the good from the bad is not so far removed.
I still think Jesse is the only one who can make it out of this okay because he's already paid for his sins in suffering. Unless he starts racking up new ones now, we'll have to see what his plan is...
Quote from: Brando on September 02, 2013, 05:09:23 PM
My guess would be his empire. Walt is out but is still connected to the empire he built. Walt's been naive when it's come to being in the drug business. Jesse was always smarter and should know one can't walk away that easy. Jesse could have a plan to fuck up some shit and cause Walt's empire to collapse around him. It'll bring Walt back into it and they'll be able to catch him in the act.
Perhaps Jesse goes back to Todd and Lydia and somehow willingly goes to work with them. Walt lives very much in his own ego, and maybe to see Jesse cooking and taking over his name will get his gears spinning and cause him to do something stupid. Either that, or he gets to Jr. somehow. He's already hit him where he lives physically, so I can't think of anything else too plausible.
Personally, I felt a little bit robbed not being able to watch Jesse re-Gale us with the story of him and Walt. I'd love to see BB told from his perspective. It'd be nice if that was an outtake on the DVD or something. It's ripe for gold. I realize they probably didn't have enough time to include it, but I think it was worth exploring. It's important for us to know just how much he told Hank. For instance, did he cop to killing Gale? What about the two thugs Walt bowled over?
Quote from: ono on September 02, 2013, 07:10:24 PMPersonally, I felt a little bit robbed not being able to watch Jesse re-Gale us with the story of him and Walt. I'd love to see BB told from his perspective. It'd be nice if that was an outtake on the DVD or something.
Vince promised exactly that in the podcast.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 02, 2013, 09:01:48 PM
Quote from: ono on September 02, 2013, 07:10:24 PMPersonally, I felt a little bit robbed not being able to watch Jesse re-Gale us with the story of him and Walt. I'd love to see BB told from his perspective. It'd be nice if that was an outtake on the DVD or something.
Vince promised exactly that in the podcast.
what did he promise? That on the DVD we can see that scene?
Yes, Jesse's confession.
Quote from: modage on September 02, 2013, 05:43:39 PMI think most people assumed this final season would be about setting up Hank as the unexpected hero of this story to bring down Walt but it's clearly not going to be that easy. The show is going out of its way to paint both Hank and Marie as not without faults that may come back around karma-wise. Hank will stop at nothing to bring Walt down even if it means Jesse dies in the process is pretty not cool and Marie fantasizing about poisoning Walt for revenge isn't as bad as actually doing it but it shows that what separates the good from the bad is not so far removed.
^ This is definitely the most important takeaway right now. This is where we are. Hank and Jesse have teamed up, but the show is far more interested in redeeming Jesse. Hank has already had his heroic moments, and now he makes more sense as an antihero, in that (as the writers have said) the show is (primarily but)
not exclusively about Walter White breaking bad. Jesse might be the only character with the opposite trajectory. He has had a massive moral awakening over the course of the show, which only continues.
Things could get interesting if Hank starts to realize he's been underestimating Jesse, which I think is obviously going to happen. It was always going to begin as a flawed partnership, given their history. I don't think it will ever be a buddy cop arrangement, but I think some kind of actual collaboration will happen, now that (1) Hank realizes Jesse is done being used, and (2) Jesse's idea will certainly be brilliant. Their partnership will still probably be contentious and/or dissolve spectacularly, because that would be the most satisfying way to play it out.
As for the idea, I agree that Jesse has to be targeting Walt's legacy, which is the barrels of cash. (Unless Jesse believes the car wash is "where he really lives," what else does Walt have?) They should probably orchestrate something that will force Walt to retrieve some of his money. They follow him or GPS him, etc. That doesn't sound interesting enough, but the interest could be in the instigating event... which has to involve Lydia, Todd, and Jack, right?
I'm trying to think of a scenario where they present Jesse to the public as Heisenberg, which somehow draws Walt out in some way because his pride would not let someone else take credit for what he did.
My other worry is something happens to Jr., as he is the only adult that is 'clean.'
To truly make people say "Oh, no, they didn't," something would have to happen to him.
I don't think either ideas are very likely, it's just what came to mind.
I like that too. It seems less likely, but it feels right for Walter's pride to be his downfall in some way. If only they could combine his legacy and his pride, that would be perfect. Given how long they apparently worked these things out in the writer's room, I'm sure they came up with something good. And I hope it's surprising.
It's funny, this should be easy to predict, because Jesse's options are limited. It can't be an obvious trap (Jesse claiming responsibility probably would be), and it can't violate Jesse's character arc.
"Where he really lives" is just such a strange turn of phrase, they're obviously trying to keep us guessing.
Quote from: Freddie on September 02, 2013, 11:00:27 AM
He's talking about Walt's money. Next episode is called ""To'hajiilee"", supposedly that's the area of the desert where Walt hid his money and it's also where Jesse and Walt cooked for the first time.
Was also in the pictures in Walt's hotel room:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F31.media.tumblr.com%2Fc3e9211478256df12697794e51683718%2Ftumblr_msiaqhde9i1qzpxx1o1_1280.jpg&hash=c1026c4c3245c4a81a4887e9b69dbde3ffc81ee2)
Also while I'm posting pictures of stuff I didn't actually observe myself, here's this:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F74af6e71a8918dcb36e4193c90a3525b%2Ftumblr_msigleu5X31qzpxx1o1_1280.jpg&hash=ffa7d5d39429f48c4d2975b1bfd16beceac8b013)
Nice catch on the Scarface gag.
It's curious to me how many people online seem to have had issues with how some of the plot developments have played out over the last two episodes, and how they somehow speak to some sort of sloppiness or laziness on the writers' part. Specifically, Jesse figuring out that Walt poisoned Brock, Jesse mistaking the guy at the park for an assassin, and Walt pulling up to the house the instant after Hank and Jesse drive away.
The third one, fuck it, that's just a great shot, and there's always been a throughline of coincidence and luck running through the series. Verdict: IT'S FINE.
Bald guy in the park, people are calling it sloppy, too pat or coincidental or whatever. The salient point is that it didn't have to be a bald guy standing off to the side, it could have been almost anything. Jesse was expecting Walt to double-cross him, he was going to see evidence of that in whatever was there. Having it be an intimidating bald guy just made his thought process visually clearer to the audience. Verdict: IT'S FINE.
As for Jesse's revelation in the previous episode, this has taken so much abuse from so many different corners, and I do not get why. I can understand being confused by the scene in the moment, but once you realize what's happened, I don't see the problem at all. It doesn't have to be that Jesse suddenly understands every aspect of what happened, but having made the connection between Kuby pickpocketing his weed and Kuby pickpocketing the Ricin cigarette, it blows a hole right through the middle of Walt's story. VERDICT: BETTER THAN FINE. FINETASTIC.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 03, 2013, 12:44:42 PM
"Where he really lives" is just such a strange turn of phrase, they're obviously trying to keep us guessing.
Jesse kept telling Hank and Gomez that Walt was out of the business and you'll never catch him in the act. So Jesse's plan has to be something to force Walt back in. Jesse could be referring his drug empire or Jess was intentionally vague cause it was just to get Walt to act. The threat will force Walt to do something he doesn't want to which is to get back into the meth world and at the end of the episode he does that. The first thing Walt does is call Todd. That is huge cause Walt has been so careful this season to keep his distance from anyone or anything from his Heisenberg days. Saul doesn't count
We know Hank's end game is to arrest Walt at all cost. Jesse's goals are still vague but I think Jesse wants to destroy Walt's world. That photo of Walt and Skyler Jesse sees at the house keeps coming back to me. Jesse could have a plan to break up the White family.
Quote from: ono on September 02, 2013, 07:10:24 PM
Quote from: Brando on September 02, 2013, 05:09:23 PM
My guess would be his empire. Walt is out but is still connected to the empire he built. Walt's been naive when it's come to being in the drug business. Jesse was always smarter and should know one can't walk away that easy. Jesse could have a plan to fuck up some shit and cause Walt's empire to collapse around him. It'll bring Walt back into it and they'll be able to catch him in the act.
Perhaps Jesse goes back to Todd and Lydia and somehow willingly goes to work with them. Walt lives very much in his own ego, and maybe to see Jesse cooking and taking over his name will get his gears spinning and cause him to do something stupid.
The episode ended with Walt calling Todd to see if his uncles would kill Jesse. Also, Jesse hates Todd and don't see him working with his Nazi uncles. Walt has kept his ego in check this season. He's also way too smart to do something like that with Hank breathing down his neck. I always had some sort of inkling that the flashforwards had to do with Walt's ego. He could die free and in peace but his ego brings him back to Albuquerque.
Quote from: tpfkabi on September 03, 2013, 12:07:14 PM
I'm trying to think of a scenario where they present Jesse to the public as Heisenberg, which somehow draws Walt out in some way because his pride would not let someone else take credit for what he did.
Walt's out. I see a lot more than that to get him back in. He also made a tape making Hank Heisenberg. At this point, I see Walt more than willing to allow someone take credit for what he's done while allowing him to walk away.
Quote from: tpfkabi on September 03, 2013, 12:07:14 PM
My other worry is something happens to Jr., as he is the only adult that is 'clean.'
To truly make people say "Oh, no, they didn't," something would have to happen to him.
I thought the same thing. After the scene by the pool, I thought something might happen to him cause with Hank and Marie both going off the rails leaves only Walt Jr. and Holly to be a sacrifice for the sins of everyone.
Quote from: Brando on September 03, 2013, 05:16:55 PM
The episode ended with Walt calling Todd to see if his uncles would kill Jesse.
No it didn't. All Walt said is he has a job for them. That's meant to imply he wants them to kill Jesse. But, as Jesse said, whatever you expect to happen, the exact opposite is going to happen.
Clearly, this means Jesse is going to kill Todd and his uncle. (Tongue firmly in cheek, but you get my drift.)
Junior's ignorance of his dad's secrets is one of the most precious things Walter has left. Why shouldn't that be one of Jesse's targets?
Jesse will not team up with Todd or the Nazi gang, and he will not physically harm Walt's kids, so we can stop talking about that now.
We can't ignore the "where" of "where he really lives," as well as the aforementioned title of the next episode. The money must be involved. It may be the most obvious thing, but it could transpire in a surprising way.
There are countless plots in the show that are completely obvious moves but are executed at a surprising time or with a crazy twist. Gus's death ("ding boom") is a good example; we saw it coming but never guessed how it would be accomplished.
Quote from: polkablues on September 03, 2013, 03:55:41 PM
Nice catch on the Scarface gag.
It's curious to me how many people online seem to have had issues with how some of the plot developments have played out over the last two episodes, and how they somehow speak to some sort of sloppiness or laziness on the writers' part. Specifically, Jesse figuring out that Walt poisoned Brock, Jesse mistaking the guy at the park for an assassin, and Walt pulling up to the house the instant after Hank and Jesse drive away.
The third one, fuck it, that's just a great shot, and there's always been a throughline of coincidence and luck running through the series. Verdict: IT'S FINE.
Bald guy in the park, people are calling it sloppy, too pat or coincidental or whatever. The salient point is that it didn't have to be a bald guy standing off to the side, it could have been almost anything. Jesse was expecting Walt to double-cross him, he was going to see evidence of that in whatever was there. Having it be an intimidating bald guy just made his thought process visually clearer to the audience. Verdict: IT'S FINE.
As for Jesse's revelation in the previous episode, this has taken so much abuse from so many different corners, and I do not get why. I can understand being confused by the scene in the moment, but once you realize what's happened, I don't see the problem at all. It doesn't have to be that Jesse suddenly understands every aspect of what happened, but having made the connection between Kuby pickpocketing his weed and Kuby pickpocketing the Ricin cigarette, it blows a hole right through the middle of Walt's story. VERDICT: BETTER THAN FINE. FINETASTIC.
Totally agree.
Walt arriving just after Jesse & Hank leave did bother me a bit, but things like that do happen in real life, and as Jesse acknowledged in that very episode, Walt is supernaturally lucky.
For all the show's realism, crazy things have always been happening. I don't remember an uproar about Season 2's plane crash. Grand entanglements of fate have always been part of the show.
Complaints about the ricin discovery make absolutely no sense to me. That was extraordinarily subtle, and the sheer amount of information conveyed through Jesse's face was kind of mindblowing.
More troubling to me is the current "Jesse is a rat and needs to go" strain of thought, which follows from the "Skyler is a drag and needs to go" strain, which follows from the "Walt must win" strain. (These people are watching too much Dexter.)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBEmDyUo.jpg&hash=aa396e1bf54f637a99de013d827a828c0eb3b3cf)
Regarding the "where he really lives" thing, here's an interesting prediction I found in the comments of the AV Club review:
Quote from: Sketchy GaloreBaseless prediction time!
Jesse's plan is to flip Skyler, and it's going to work beautifully. Jesse knows that she's a mother and that the poisoning of one child and killing of another is enough to get her to turn by itself. Her cold willingness to kill Jesse comes from the fact that she sees him as a threat to all of them. When he makes it clear that Walt is the only one that he wants to hurt, she's going to be a lot more likely to see him as an ally, especially since he's not interested in taking away her money.
Mostly, I think this is all going to have been foreshadowed by the "Vamonos" comment from Jesse, to which Skyler replies "I wish." They're the two people that Walt has manipulated and hurt the most in his rampage, at least emotionally (I'm sure Mike's lawyer would argue the point!)
Jesse looks at the picture of Walt and Skyler and realizes that's where Walt "Lives." Walt's self-identity, whether it's valid or not, is that of a family man who is doing what he has to do in order to make sure that his family is safe. And he's told Jesse how much Skyler hates him, but Jesse knows that she's still there beside him in their facade of a life and that that's enough for Walt. He has to steal that from Walt and pry away Walt's connections to the world, just like Walt did to him.
Quote from: jerome on September 04, 2013, 12:34:15 PM
Regarding the "where he really lives" thing, here's an interesting prediction I found in the comments of the AV Club review:
Quote from: Sketchy GaloreBaseless prediction time!
Jesse's plan is to flip Skyler, and it's going to work beautifully. Jesse knows that she's a mother and that the poisoning of one child and killing of another is enough to get her to turn by itself. Her cold willingness to kill Jesse comes from the fact that she sees him as a threat to all of them. When he makes it clear that Walt is the only one that he wants to hurt, she's going to be a lot more likely to see him as an ally, especially since he's not interested in taking away her money.
Mostly, I think this is all going to have been foreshadowed by the "Vamonos" comment from Jesse, to which Skyler replies "I wish." They're the two people that Walt has manipulated and hurt the most in his rampage, at least emotionally (I'm sure Mike's lawyer would argue the point!)
Jesse looks at the picture of Walt and Skyler and realizes that's where Walt "Lives." Walt's self-identity, whether it's valid or not, is that of a family man who is doing what he has to do in order to make sure that his family is safe. And he's told Jesse how much Skyler hates him, but Jesse knows that she's still there beside him in their facade of a life and that that's enough for Walt. He has to steal that from Walt and pry away Walt's connections to the world, just like Walt did to him.
I don't buy that at all. Walt has already told Jesse that he's essentially lost his family, especially his wife, which Jesse saw first hand at dinner. Jesse has no way to know that Walt and Skyler have somewhat reconciled. It's also convoluted enough that I can't see that having been part of Jesse's lightbulb moment.
It does make sense to target what's left of Walt's family, which is why I suggested that Jesse should reveal the truth to Junior, but now I'm even doubting that.
More importantly, there's no way Skyler is going to trust Jesse. She never has. She's far more comfortable with Walt (she can easily see through his lies), and she's essentially turned dark anyway. Did she display any great anxiety or desperation or fear of Walt in that hotel room? Not exactly. She has zero motivation to go from wanting Jesse dead to teaming up with him. He almost burned her house down.
Skyler would not be shocked to learn that Walt poisoned a kid (who didn't die). She seems to assume that Walt has done far worse things and racked up a higher body count than he actually has, and she's surprised at his reluctance to kill Jesse. She looks like she's about to mock him for it. Kind of like Lydia: "I thought you were professionals."
Quote from: jerome on September 04, 2013, 12:34:15 PM
Regarding the "where he really lives" thing, here's an interesting prediction I found in the comments of the AV Club review:
Quote from: Sketchy GaloreBaseless prediction time!
Jesse's plan is to flip Skyler, and it's going to work beautifully. Jesse knows that she's a mother and that the poisoning of one child and killing of another is enough to get her to turn by itself. Her cold willingness to kill Jesse comes from the fact that she sees him as a threat to all of them. When he makes it clear that Walt is the only one that he wants to hurt, she's going to be a lot more likely to see him as an ally, especially since he's not interested in taking away her money.
Mostly, I think this is all going to have been foreshadowed by the "Vamonos" comment from Jesse, to which Skyler replies "I wish." They're the two people that Walt has manipulated and hurt the most in his rampage, at least emotionally (I'm sure Mike's lawyer would argue the point!)
Jesse looks at the picture of Walt and Skyler and realizes that's where Walt "Lives." Walt's self-identity, whether it's valid or not, is that of a family man who is doing what he has to do in order to make sure that his family is safe. And he's told Jesse how much Skyler hates him, but Jesse knows that she's still there beside him in their facade of a life and that that's enough for Walt. He has to steal that from Walt and pry away Walt's connections to the world, just like Walt did to him.
I was considering something like that. It's what I meant when I said Jesse's plan might be to break up the White family. That photo just stood out from the episode that it makes me think it has to do with Jesse's plan. I still can't figure out how or why that plan could lead to the goal of arresting Walt.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 04, 2013, 01:21:02 PM
It's also convoluted enough that I can't see that having been part of Jesse's lightbulb moment.
That's the biggest hole in the prediction. Jesse doesn't know Skyler. His big plan wouldn't be trying to turn someone he doesn't know against her husband? Jesse knows Walt better than anyone so his plan has to be based on that knowledge.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 04, 2013, 01:21:02 PM
More importantly, there's no way Skyler is going to trust Jesse.
I think Skyler still trusts Hank and Marie. I think it would be those two showing her Jesse's confession. But that still wouldnt be "jesse's lightbulb moment."
Maybe I'm over thinking it cause going after Walt's money is by far the best prediction but still think Jesse's plan is something else.
Jesse sneaks in through the patio door each day to steal Flynn's breakfast, Flynn accuses Walt, Walt misinterprets the accusation, breaks down and confesses everything.
What's up with Lydia? She's been noticeably absent for 2 episodes now right? My guess is she will turn the Nazi's against Walt. Maybe they'll only kill Jesse if he agrees to "right the ship" with the cook.
Quote from: ©brad on September 04, 2013, 03:34:15 PM
What's up with Lydia? She's been noticeably absent for 2 episodes now right? My guess is she will turn the Nazi's against Walt. Maybe they'll only kill Jesse if he agrees to "right the ship" with the cook.
I could see Lydia being upset that Walt is using her men to kill Jesse after Walt turned down helping her. He might want to keep her out of it but it might not be that easy. You would think Lydia would want Jesse dead too. The big problem would be if Lydia and the uncles found out about Hank. They would want to kill Hank too or as you said kill Walt. It would be almost easier to kill Walt than kill both Jesse and Hank.
I have a hard time believing that Lydia or Todd or Jack's gang would want Walt dead. Their interests don't conflict sufficiently, and I'm sure Lydia is holding out hope that Walt will give Todd a refresher. Something big would have to shift.
I understand that Lydia needs to increase the purity of her product. And you'd think Jack's gang would be destined to collide with Walt at some point. But I can't imagine Lydia using anything but positive reinforcement, unless the equation completely changes. She must understand how clever and dangerous Walt is. He's also incredibly valuable. She doesn't win if she kills him.
Killing Walt doesn't solve Lydia's problem. Hank would certainly go after her, and Jesse has already informed on her.
If Lydia and Jack's gang want Jesse and Hank dead, I can't see Walt going to war with them to prevent that. Maybe one of Walt's last dark turns is that he cooperates with such a plan. (Walt warring with Jack's gang is a bit predictable/boring for this show anyway.)
Still hanging over our heads: who is the ricin for, and who is the M60 for?
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 04, 2013, 05:26:34 PM
I have a hard time believing that Lydia or Todd or Jack's gang would want Walt dead. Their interests don't conflict sufficiently, and I'm sure Lydia is holding out hope that Walt will give Todd a refresher. Something big would have to shift.
I understand that Lydia needs to increase the purity of her product. And you'd think Jack's gang would be destined to collide with Walt at some point. But I can't imagine Lydia using anything but positive reinforcement, unless the equation completely changes. She must understand how clever and dangerous Walt is. He's also incredibly valuable. She doesn't win if she kills him.
Killing Walt doesn't solve Lydia's problem. Hank would certainly go after her, and Jesse has already informed on her.
If Lydia and Jack's gang want Jesse and Hank dead, I can't see Walt going to war with them to prevent that. Maybe one of Walt's last dark turns is that he cooperates with such a plan. (Walt warring with Jack's gang is a bit predictable/boring for this show anyway.)
Still hanging over our heads: who is the ricin for, and who is the M60 for?
That is completely logical. But we are talking about Lydia. When has she ever been reasonable? She immediately put out a hit on 11 people when they became a possible threat. She had an entire outfit of a drug cartel killed over a few percentage points. The cook was at 68% and Todd's cook is "in the low 70s." Lydia's first instinct is to kill. I'm sure she would love Walt to give Todd a refresher but don't think things have to shift drastically for Lydia to want Walt dead.
Not sure I agree. Lydia is emotional and a bit crazy (screaming into the pillow), but she's smart and rational. Except for Mike being a wildcard, there was some wisdom to ordering the hit on the witnesses, since it ended up being the solution.
I would also suggest that clearing out Declan's crew was a logical move. Lydia didn't just gain a few percentage points of purity, she gained power. A lot of power. Declan would barely give her the time of day, whereas Todd and Jack are obviously under her thumb. The new meth-cooking crew certainly has more promise than that grimy barely-competent operation Declan had going.
I will concede that Lydia has the potential to act irrationally and explosively when cornered, but I don't see Walt trying to corner her.
so Hank has only told Gomez about Walt right? I don't think DEA knows about it yet.
and someone said here if Jesse told about the kid in the bike, I missed it the first time I saw it but Gomez mentions it to Hank in the balcony, ''so, do we take a run to Lydia Rodarte Quayle? vamonos pest? follow up the drew sharp killing? where do we start?''
I keep thinking Hank is making a mistake to not fill in the DEA, even if it means he will lose his job, although now that Gomez knows it's his duty too so now they must inform DEA sooner rather than later.
I have to assume the next move (Jesse's idea) will coincide with DEA involvement, because you're right, they're reaching a tipping point where they really can't keep it a secret much longer.
Especially with Drew Sharp. It's a missing child case, and now suddenly it should be a murder case with a suspect and a witness.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 06, 2013, 12:43:37 PM
I have to assume the next move (Jesse's idea) will coincide with DEA involvement, because you're right, they're reaching a tipping point where they really can't keep it a secret much longer.
Especially with Drew Sharp. It's a missing child case, and now suddenly it should be a murder case with a suspect and a witness.
exactly. the Drew Sharp case is too big, can you imagine the level of attention it could have? a white kid killed and dissolved, and behind all that it lays the most successful train heist of all time just to build the biggest meth empire in the US.
I have no idea what Jesse's plan could be, but I feel like there's a chance it's not very DEA friendly. Gomez will have the DEA plan, Jesse will have probably a genius plan and Hank will be in the middle. Hank will choose Jesse's plan because this is all turning him into a mad man.
"Mr White - He's the Devil," and "Next time I'm gonna get you where you really live," are the two lines that have echoed in my brain all week. I can only assume "where you really live" is the fiery depths of hell.
why are breaking bad people flipping out today? that's actually what i want to hear. just that. in the next post, please spoil the surprise for me. i want to hear the surprise because people are flipping
edit - i suspected wiki could tell me and yeah, it could. sounds like mayhem. nice
Fucking hell that was exciting.
My prediction for this episode was right on the money (lame pun).
Walt's heartbroken face when he saw Jesse and Hank together. So many feels.
Lydia is still the worst actress ever. But she's hot so I guess everyone's cool with it.
I like how Walt is always so thoughtful about his every move. Always so methodical and always has the upper hand.... and yet, as soon as he saw the picture of "his money". We saw Walt react without thinking for the first time. He got fooled completely. All for the love of the almighty dollar.
Trash, people are flipping out because this episode was the shit. Walt is in handcuffs, Hank finally caught him. Walt saw that Jesse is a fucking rat and there was a crazy ass shootout at the end. Will Hank die? Probably not. Maybe. Who the fuck knows? But this episode was truly amazing. Will wake up earlier tomorrow just to rewatch it before work.
Quote from: ©brad on September 04, 2013, 03:34:15 PM
What's up with Lydia? She's been noticeably absent for 2 episodes now right? My guess is she will turn the Nazi's against Walt. Maybe they'll only kill Jesse if he agrees to "right the ship" with the cook.
CALLED. IT. Well kind of.
I generally hate shootouts like this because they all should have been dead after about 10 seconds but DAMN what a shootout. Michelle Motherfuckn McLaren. Walt's dash to the desert was amazingly done too.
Was the fake brain pic of Jesse foreshadowing? I just need Jesse and Walt Jr. to survive please please please
Lots of people predicting Hank is a goner because of his goodbye phone call to Marie but I don't think so. If Hank was going to be killed in this shootout it would make more sense dramatically to kill him at the end of this episode, make it more of a shocker.
I'm going to have to take mental health sick days for the next three mondays to recover from this show.
HOLY FUCK!
SPOILS S05E13
now that's a br ba episode, holy shit.
when he got to the place and realized he was played I kept thinking how the hell can he get away with it, then it was obvious Jack's crew had to go there, oh man how can an episode end like that, it's going to be a loooooooong wait for next week's.
Hank is done right? they are outnumbered and not heavy armed, also hank's call to Marie sounded like a goodbye call.
my only complaint would be that Huell bit the hook too easy but its a very minor complaint.
next week's according to Vince Gilligan is ''probably'' the best ep of the series. cant. fucking. wait.
The most brutal cliffhanger of the entire series. It hurts even worse because of how sparingly they use cliffhangers.
As for what happens immediately next, my gut says that Walt will have to win and lose in some combination that really eats away at his soul. I mean look where we are in the final season; it's certainly time for that next step.
The best way to achieve that is for Hank to die, obviously. Hank dies and Jesse escapes. It's like modage said; Jesse is perhaps a few rungs above Hank on the moral ladder, and the show is not interested in punishing him. It's Hank's time; they've given him his heroic moment. And dying in a gunfight with Nazis... well, there are certainly less honorable ways to go.
They also gave him that goodbye phone call to Marie, which I immediately thought was his death sentence. It was almost too obvious, right? So what if they subvert that expectation? I don't know, that would be annoying, and it seems impractical. If Hank wins the gunfight, how does Walt get out of handcuffs? Does Saul lawyer him out of jail? That would be dumb. Stakes need to be high right now, and big things need to happen.
If Jack's gang is wiped out, that erases a conflict that was just being set up (Walt being potentially indentured to them). I suppose this could happen, but the "surprise" would simply cut that thread off, which is a bit anticlimactic.
So these are the most obvious pieces of foreshadowing from the final minutes:
- Hank's victory moment and "I love you" phone call, both just dripping with finality.
- Jesse gets out of the car and looks like he's going to engage.
They seem to make a point (visually) that Jack's shooters don't see Jesse. It's quite possible that Jesse will call upon his infamous marksmanship and kill him some Nazis.
So what's the endgame? Are they really going to turn Walter White fully into the antagonist, as promised? This is honestly an open question. Before he ordered the hit on Jesse, they had been pulling back a bit. And now he would rather protect Hank than save himself. So are they going to go all the way or not? This question will probably be answered in the next episode.
Hank certainly isn't the protagonist destined to face off against Walt as antagonist. He got his victory through deception. Obviously it would be Jesse, but they need to move him a few steps closer as well. (This is why he might fire a few shots before escaping, so he doesn't look like a "coward.") A Jesse/Walt faceoff seems destined. That in my opinion would be the best way to end the show.
If Hank and Jesse both survive the gunfight, I will be massively disappointed. Of course they are the two most likable characters, but this is about narrative satisfaction. It's time.
Man, heart-attacks all round near the end. I knew it that even when Walt called it off, the rednecks would still come. I have a bad feeling that Hank and Gomie may not make it through. Perhaps the M60 will be used to take out the rednecks (speculating once again) as vengance (for the death of Hank/Jesse/misc family) or something (then Walt ricins himself, classic) heheheh. That said it would be kinda odd if the next episode started off with Hank and Gomie dying. It's all up in the air, who knows.
But seriously Hank's phonecall with Marie totally sounded like a goodbye. I was about to explode because I was expecting a gunshot to ring out or something. One of the goodguys (everyone who isn't a redneck or Lydia) has to die by the next episode.
It is actually not right to have these episodes a week apart. I will spend the next week twitching and agonising over the next episode.
the only satisfying way I think for Hank to survive one or two more episodes is that he ends up running out of ammo and Walt convinces Jack (for the time being) to spare him.
No, I think big things are going to be happening quickly now. Check out the title of Episode 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Breaking_Bad_episodes#Season_5_.282012.E2.80.9313.29). There's only one episode before that.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 12:53:26 AM
No, I think big things are going to be happening quickly now. Check out the title of Episode 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Breaking_Bad_episodes#Season_5_.282012.E2.80.9313.29). There's only one episode before that.
Yeah, it's really coming to an end. Scary. I think Vince Gilligan said next week's episode is the best, I imagine very, very important events will occur.
Sidenote: I think Rian Johnson probably did one of the trippiest but emotionally wow episodes of the show (Fly).
don't watch the show and it's textured, i can't spoil or guess anything. into this as an artifact and because it's to the final point of everyone's interest. i get excited with my friends, you know
as jb linked above, i read the episode titles. i refuse to guess, to the credit of creators and fans, that the last episode's title is an anagram. get outta town. surprising to me is the best and most consistent guess for the title is this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIHRgisdbeY). marty robbins! whenever i want to imagine cowboys i listen to marty robbins
how are the lyrics (http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/robbins-marty/el-paso-11889.html) convertible for the show's watchers?
I just realized that Marie for once isn't wearing purple, she's wearing black....that cant be a coincidence can it?
That was so intense. The entire episode just kept building and building. Everything after Walt reaches To'hajiilee was incredible television.
Quote from: ©brad on September 09, 2013, 12:08:41 AM
Lots of people predicting Hank is a goner because of his goodbye phone call to Marie but I don't think so. If Hank was going to be killed in this shootout it would make more sense dramatically to kill him at the end of this episode, make it more of a shocker.
I thought the same thing. It doesn't seem right for them to set it up for Hank to be killed and give him his hero/goodbye moment then delay his death to the first few minutes of the next episode. It makes me think the standoff ends with Walt negotiating a cease fire.
Fuck the Saul Goodman spinoff idea. I want a spinoff of a Todd and Lydia romance.
Quote from: Fernando on September 09, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
I just realized that Marie for once isn't wearing purple, she's wearing black....that cant be a coincidence can it?
I didn't catch that but Breaking Bad has put so much focus on the appearance of their characters that I would agree that it can't be a coincidence.
hmm. based on what i'm reading, including the song: marie ends the show and no one saw that coming
Quote from: trashculturemutantjunkie on September 09, 2013, 02:32:07 AM
hmm. based on what i'm reading, including the song: marie ends the show and no one saw that coming
what the hell are you talking about man?
a show i don't watch and an ending that might not be possible. you could just say "you sound ridiculous, that's not possible"
i've linked the song's lyrics
hank is in the family as skyler's brother. hank's goodbye call has stimulated flabbergast over its inclusion. maybe it's not only a goodbye, it's a hello. marie's black clothes, another hello. marie's character has been established at this point as (via wiki) "an unpleasant bitch," and "she would be there for her family. But it's all about her." that sounds like a leader in waiting to me. pubrick, as you know, bitches are leaders. and no one guesses a woman to end the show, right? when hank dies, family tragedy. when walter dies, family tragedy. who takes over the family? marie could. but idk if it's a throne to be taken or what the throne is or anything like that
it's very true that i'm a fish out of water in here. excited for everyone watching!
Found on Reddit.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FX0aOORk.png&hash=eee793be9f9625574e7298bbf515f8b31a4eabb1)
Quote from: trashculturemutantjunkie on September 09, 2013, 02:51:47 AM
it's very true that i'm a fish out of water in here. excited for everyone watching!
great. go loiter somewhere else. thanks.
loiter, lol. request, appropriate. not my party. like i said, excited for the watchers
Quote from: trashculturemutantjunkie on September 09, 2013, 04:13:59 AM
loiter, lol. request, appropriate. not my party. like i said, excited for the watchers
like i said, loiter somewhere else. thanks.
loiter is the wrong word. i was talking about the show in the show's thread. it's more like i'm trying to use a discover card and all you accept is the master card. i'm the wrong person for the talk because of my lack of familiarity with the show. i know. i said it. what's keeping me going? for some reason, you. pm me if you want to. please stop trolling me. thanks
Quote from: trashculturemutantjunkie on September 09, 2013, 04:34:43 AM
loiter is the wrong word. i was talking about the show in the show's thread. it's more like i'm trying to use a discover card and all you accept is the master card. i'm the wrong person for the talk because of my lack of familiarity with the show. i know. i said it. what's keeping me going? for some reason, you. pm me if you want to. please stop trolling me. thanks
trolling! that's a much more appropriate word for you. stop trolling the breaking bad thread. thanks.
rude wasn't my intention from the beginning. please, go back a page. take a look where this begins
i consider some of these people my friends. you asked me not to loiter, i called the request appropriate. for you. you've been here for years here, i know. you're a good person i bet, i barely know you. why this? pm me
Just curious here, why don't you watch it?
I mean personally this is the only show I watch besides the news. I certainly not the only person who thinks this is the best thing on TV right now.
what a pickle i'm in! i liked drenka's funny post and thought "there's a friend" and then came a swarm and now i'm not supposed to be here! what a pickle
to not ignore your q, i'm not a tv person. tv is madly popular right now, and many shows are popular with all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons, but because i'm not a tv person i tend to skip, just in general. i'm hesitant
but breaking bad is the world series winner. i've become interested in the show based on word of mouth. that ol' thing. plus i like that the creator is from southern usa. i like geographically unexpected creators
gotta dash. everyone knows why :)
You're probably better off not watching the show until it ends because following it week to week is torture. You're in a very lucky position, being new to Breaking Bad, hours and hours of edge of your seat entertainment ahead of you, why spoil it for yourself? If you're this interested that you did all that reading up on it, then you'll obviously dig the show. Watch ONE EPISODE, dude. Just so you can understand how seriously we take this show and cine's comment may start to make sense.
^This show is torture. It's the first season I'm watching it one at a time. It's not even that enjoyable this way. Thinking about saving the next two for the finale......yet we all know I won't.
That shootout was so expertly done. I just watched it again and while I still think it's kind of bullshit that Walt never got hit by a bullet, the way the tension built to the absolute breaking point was astounding. And those dolly shots pushing in on each character were great. I might be mistaken but that's the first time the show has employed push-ins like that.
You feel so many conflicting emotions during Hank's arrest of Walt. It's cathartic yet at the same time, a tiny part of me was still rooting for Walt and hoping he had some master plan to get out. I still wanted him to win right there, which is so f'ed up given what a monster he's become. Damn this show.
yes, that shoot out was something else, although like you previously pointed out, by ten seconds ppl on both sides should be bleeding.
I also want Walt to succeed, but Hank and Jesse too, oh well, Im just enjoying this ride to hell immensely.
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Fernando on September 09, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
I just realized that Marie for once isn't wearing purple, she's wearing black....that cant be a coincidence can it?
I didn't catch that but Breaking Bad has put so much focus on the appearance of their characters that I would agree that it can't be a coincidence.
I was wrong, her blouse is dark purple, it looks black but it isnt, her pants are thou...
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy251%2Ffbv%2FMarieS05E13_zpsaaacac72.png&hash=926f0cc4cd74bbc69dc40092bb0f798278e7f4df)
I would consider that funerial purple.
Anyway, I think the cliffhanger is starting to make more sense to me. They're forcing us to think for a week about what we really want to happen.
It would also take some of the shock out of a Hank or Jesse death, just so we don't all have heart attacks. Something like that. I can't accept that Hank and Jesse would survive the gunfight. You don't have a cliffhanger like that and come back with an anticlimax.
I'm desperately curious if the next episode will pick up where it left off, or if we'll see the aftermath. Imagine a cold open with Hank lying dead in the desert. What a punch in the gut that would be, probably moreso than watching him die. As much as I'd like to see something like that, they will probably just continue the shootout. Why else would they set up Jesse's positioning? I can't believe this, but I'm preparing myself to be disappointed.
I'm increasingly skeptical that there's time left to bring Jesse into full protagonist mode. Spitting on Walt wasn't exactly a noble gesture. I don't really favor anyone right now. With the cliffhanger, we're forced to figure out whose side we're on, and if any of that matters anymore. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe the point is that there are no heroes in Breaking Bad; there's just the wreckage.
This episode was unbelievable. The drive into the desert was one of the best moments in the whole series.
They are going to have to bring things to a head and jump forward in time pretty quickly in order to wrap up the flash-forward cold-open. What with Vince Gilligan saying that next weeks episode is the best of the season, I'm guessing the current storyline will come to a head and/or conclusion with Ozymandias (also, the title suggests as much as well) and the final two will be aftermath. Bloody aftermath, most likely, but aftermath all the same.
Also, while I was watching last nights episode, my wife was acting in a movie with Aaron Paul, who apparently got a phone call on set from his mom after she saw the episode. I hope he kept her hanging....
Quote from: Ghostboy on September 09, 2013, 02:57:07 PM
They are going to have to bring things to a head and jump forward in time pretty quickly in order to wrap up the flash-forward cold-open. What with Vince Gilligan saying that next weeks episode is the best of the season, I'm guessing the current storyline will come to a head and/or conclusion with Ozymandias (also, the title suggests as much as well) and the final two will be aftermath. Bloody aftermath, most likely, but aftermath all the same.
^ Pretty much.
Ozymandias"I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
From Wikipedia: "The central theme of "Ozymandias" is the inevitable decline of all leaders, and of the empires they build, however mighty in their own time."
I say next episode we see Walter's empire finally crumble to the ground completely. All hell breaks loose. He gets unmasked and now everyone knows he's Heisenberg. He uses Saul's "guy" to disappear with his family. That's where the episode ends.
Then in episode 15 we are now in the "flash forward" bit we saw in the opening of episode 9.
This is Walt and Jesse trapped in the RV times a thousand. So many ways it can go.
Next week's episode can't open with the death of Hank. They have to do something to justify delaying a week. The episode built up this incredible tension and dread. You really undo all of that by delaying it a week. Now everyone in the world is expecting Hank to die in this next episode. The writer's always know the viewers' expectations and stay away from it.
Walt could come up with a plan for everyone to walk away. Walt tells the Nazi's he won't cook for them if they kill Hank and Gomez. Walt tells Hank and Gomez the only way they can leave alive if they stop their investigation. Hank will also have to give Jesse to Walt and the Nazis. I think Jesse's death is imminent. I don't think there is a way for him to leave Tohajiilee alive.
Quote from: God of Xixax on September 09, 2013, 03:02:42 PM
I say next episode we see Walter's empire finally crumble. All hell breaks loose. He gets unmasked and now everyone knows he's Heisenberg. He uses Saul's "guy" to dissapear with his family. That's where the episode ends.
Then in episode 15 we are now in the "flash forward" bit we saw in the opening of episode 9.
That seems way too much time for the flash forward. There doesn't seem two episodes worth of material in the flash forward and especially how fast things happen on BB. Also, The fall out needs more time. I would expect we don't catch up to the flash forward until the final episode. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't catch up until the final half or third of the final episode.
Pretty big character moment with Walt calling off the Nazi's when he saw it was Hank coming for him. He could've got away clean, but he still tried to protect Hank. I don't think you'll see Hank or Jesse go down in this shootout, that would be awkward episode structuring. You may very well see them die in the next episode, but it won't be in this shootout. Gomie is such a red shirt, I hope the writers have a better plan than to just off him to justify a body count. It's amazing how this show unfolds so plausibly yet remains impossible to predict.
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Cool! The Complete DVD Box Set For 'Breaking Bad' Is Shaped Like A Barrel.
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What's in it? According to E!, here's what we have to look forward to.
No Half Measures – Creating the Final Season of Breaking Bad – An all-new, exclusive two hour documentary that chronicles the filming of the final eight episodes.
Bad Memories – Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul talk about the show ending and some of their favorite moments.
Bryan Cranston: Director – Go on set with Bryan Cranston as he directs the first episode of the season entitled Blood Money.
Scene Envy – The Cast tell us which scene they wish they could have been in.
Shocking Moments – The stars reveal the moments that shocked them most.
From Walt to Heisenberg – From high school teacher to deadly meth dealer, watch as Walter White quickly transforms into Heisenberg.
How Will It End? – At the beginning of the season, the cast was asked to give their thoughts on how they thought the show would end.
Avenging Agent: Dean Norris as Hank Schrader — A look at the character Hank Schrader and the man who played him, Dean Norris.
Scene Stealer: Betsy Brandt as Marie Schrader – A look at the character Marie Schrader and the woman who plays her, Betsy Brandt.
A Criminal Attorney: Bob Odenkirk as Saul Goodman –A look at the character Saul Goodman and the man who played him, Bob Odenkirk.
Jesse's Journey: Aaron Paul as Jesse Pinkman – A look at the character Jesse Pinkman and the man who played him, Aaron Paul.
Skyler Breaks Bad: Anna Gunn on Season Four – Actress Anna Gunn and series creator Vince Gilligan explore Skyler's character evolution through the fourth season.
Growing Up in the White House: RJ Mitte on Walter, Jr. – RJ Mitte, Anna Gunn, Bryan Cranston and series creator Vince Gilligan discuss the extraordinary dynamics of the White family, and Walter, Jr.'s unique role.
The Ultimate Chess Match – Members of the cast and crew discuss Walter White and Gus Fring's extraordinary and complicated battle of wits and their struggle for Jesse's allegiance.
Looking Back: A Season Four Retrospective – Season Four's most surprising and memorable moments.
Ted's Wipeout – In Episode 411, Crawl Space, Ted Beneke suffers a head injury while trying to escape from Saul's goons. In this featurette, Christopher Cousins (Ted) explains how this shocking stunt was accomplished.
The Truck Attack Storyboard Comparison – A side-by-side comparison of the Los Pollos Hermanos truck attack and the brilliant shot-by-shot storyboards that were created for the episode Bullet Points.
Walt and the Challenger Storyboard Comparison – A side-by-side comparison of the sequence where Walt indulges in some crazy stunt driving in Walt Jr.'s Dodge Challenger and the storyboards that were created.
Additionally, Breaking Bad: The Final Season DVDs will include the following Bonus Features:
Cast and Crew Commentaries – On Every Episode
4 Featurettes – The Main Event, The Final Showdown, Life of a Show Runner and Behind-the-Scenes of the Alternate Ending
Alternate Ending – A 3-minute alternate version of how Breaking Bad could have ended.
Deleted & Extended Scenes
Gag Reel
Walt's Confession
The Layers of a Sound Mix
Over 15 Episodes of Inside Breaking Bad
Uncensored and Extended Episodes
Breaking Bad the complete series will be released on November 26th.
QuoteAlternate Ending – A 3-minute alternate version of how Breaking Bad could have ended.
Whaaat? Weird. TV shows don't usually have an alternate ending.
For Ozymandias, I hope that Jane's death will be discovered by Jesse.
"Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Not just Jane's death, actually. But all Walt's "works". And not just to Jesse but to the world. And please, despair, too. Yes. A lot. It will be a long week...
And Dean Norris is back:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTv-fTXCYAAsFq6.jpg)
Quote from: Drenka on September 09, 2013, 04:23:52 PM
QuoteAlternate Ending – A 3-minute alternate version of how Breaking Bad could have ended.
Whaaat? Weird. TV shows don't usually have an alternate ending.
They must be extremely confident in the ending or the alternative isn't much different.
No mention of Jesse's confession which they said would be included on the BB podcast.
Quote from: Drenka on September 09, 2013, 04:23:52 PM
QuoteAlternate Ending – A 3-minute alternate version of how Breaking Bad could have ended.
Whaaat? Weird. TV shows don't usually have an alternate ending.
It's usually to throw off people (crew members, press, spies, etc) so they won't know what ending is the true ending to leak on the Internet.
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 03:07:28 PMThere doesn't seem two episodes worth of material in the flash forward and especially how fast things happen on BB. Also, The fall out needs more time. I would expect we don't catch up to the flash forward until the final episode. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't catch up until the final half or third of the final episode.
As I was saying before, the title of Episode 15 suggests otherwise.
I wonder how they're going to do the time jump(s).
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 05:11:38 PM
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 03:07:28 PMThere doesn't seem two episodes worth of material in the flash forward and especially how fast things happen on BB. Also, The fall out needs more time. I would expect we don't catch up to the flash forward until the final episode. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't catch up until the final half or third of the final episode.
As I was saying before, the title of Episode 15 suggests otherwise.
I wonder how they're going to do the time jump(s).
Exactly. The title of the episode and the poem itself, all point to the empire falling and "the mask coming off".
"Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"The whole world will know who Walter White is and all the things he's done. That's when he'll disappear... and then reappear looking like shit, probably on his last days. He's given up on chemo (as you can see by the long hair in the flashback) and his family is gone (he's having breakfast alone on his birthday). He's got one more enemy to take out (probably Jesse) and judging by Marty Robbin's song "Feleena" (Last episode "Felina" references the title), in the last episode Walt will die at the hands of a "young cowboy" while "Feleena" watches. Then Feleena kills herself. Walt the main character, Jesse the young cowboy, Feleena is Skylar? Fuck if I know.
Lyrics in case you wanna make your own shitty predictions: http://www.metrolyrics.com/feleena-from-el-paso-lyrics-marty-robbins.html
I haven't heard anything about Felina being a reference to a song. I've only heard it being an anagram for finale. I also don't see why they would reference a song about a woman named Feleena for the ending of Breaking Bad.
I don't think Walt would need that big of a gun to get revenge on Jesse. At this point, I see Lydia, Todd and the Nazis as the best candidates for why Walt will return to Albuquerque. They seem like enough of a threat for Walt flee to New Hampshire. If Walt needed a huge gun to get revenge on anyone, it would be the Nazis and maybe save the Ricin for Lydia.
Walt could try and talk a cease fire between the two sides. It goes wrong and Hank and Gomez die. During this Jesse gets away but sees Hank and Gomez are killed. Walt and the Nazis get rid of the two bodies. Walt is distraught and refuses to cook. Jesse gets back to town and tells Marie that Walt had Hank killed. Shit gets real. Marie goes off. Skyler learns of Hank being killed and leaves Walt. It gets out that Walt is Heisenberg. The Nazis try to have Walt killed to keep him from being arrested and talking. Walt flees to the Granite State. He decides to go back to get revenge on the Nazis and die in a blaze of gunfire.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 05:11:38 PM
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 03:07:28 PMThere doesn't seem two episodes worth of material in the flash forward and especially how fast things happen on BB. Also, The fall out needs more time. I would expect we don't catch up to the flash forward until the final episode. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't catch up until the final half or third of the final episode.
As I was saying before, the title of Episode 15 suggests otherwise.
I wonder how they're going to do the time jump(s).
Breaking Bad at it's best is when it's left the viewers in the dark to what Walt has planned. We didn't know about Brock. We didn't know what Walt had planned when he walked into Tuco's. That is why I thought they would try to delay us catching up to the fast forward for as long as possible. Walt could leave for New Hampshire at the end of episode called Granite State. Then the last episode opens with Walt walking into Denny's.
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 07:38:57 PMWalt could leave for New Hampshire at the end of episode called Granite State. Then the last episode opens with Walt walking into Denny's.
I thought it was figured out that Walt is in Texas in the flashforward (Lydia's state). Maybe NM but probably Texas, but definitely not New Hampshire.
I didn't catch that it was in Texas. I thought he was in Albuquerque. Maybe I'm confused cause on the podcast they said they shot it at the same Denny's they shot the end of Box Cutter.
I think it was posted in this thread that someone figured it out based on the distance (or time?) he mentioned in that scene. Which would make a Walt/Lydia standoff somewhat likely.
Anyway, you'd think that whatever develops in New Hampshire needs to be established before the diner scene chronologically arrives. If they're going to name an entire episode after New Hampshire, something has to happen there besides Walt briefly picking up a new identity, right?
If not much happens in New Hampshire, I guess they could have multiple time jumps, but that would be too awkward. I mean really, these are the mutually exclusive options:
- Show what happens in New Hampshire
- Don't show New Hampshire, just time jump as Walt is leaving town
- Use multiple time jumps
Next episode Todd and Lydia are definitely gonna get it on..... Such an odd couple. She is a heavenly blessed beauty who's inner beauty is so divine and everlasting....... and he looks like he has downs. Let's see how the writers make it work.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 08:07:35 PM
I think it was posted in this thread that someone figured it out based on the distance (or time?) he mentioned in that scene. Which would make a Walt/Lydia standoff somewhat likely.
He has to be in Albuquerque in both flash forwards. He has the car and gun in the trunk when he arrives at the house to pick up the ricin. Otherwise, Walt went to Texas to do nothing but buy a gun from a gun dealer that we know to be from Albuquerque.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 08:07:35 PM
Anyway, you'd think that whatever develops in New Hampshire needs to be established before the diner scene chronologically arrives. If they're going to name an entire episode after New Hampshire, something has to happen there besides Walt briefly picking up a new identity, right?
That's true. They could probably get away with showing as little as Walt being alone and depressed. He just looks like he got out of Shawshank and can't make it on the outside reinforcing why he would want to come back to Albuquerque.
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 08:51:15 PMHe has to be in Albuquerque in both flash forwards. He has the car and gun in the trunk when he arrives at the house to pick up the ricin. Otherwise, Walt went to Texas to do nothing but buy a gun from a gun dealer that we know to be from Albuquerque.
Oh, good call. It's definitely Albequerque then.
Still thinking about the flash forwards (or is it flashes forward?). Walt is clearly taking his time, so he's not rescuing someone in immediate peril, like his family being held hostage. And if he were scared for his own life, he wouldn't be strolling around Albequerque. So he's on the offensive.
My predictions:
Ricin - He finishes off Brock once and for all.
M60 - Just wants to blow off some steam at the range.
I've posted too much in this thread today but JB's joke reminded me of something. We always wondered how Walt poisoned Brock. Was that scene with Brock eating fruit loops hinting that Walt poisoned his fruit loops? I need to watch the episode again but pretty sure Walt made a reference to the cereal.
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 10:09:54 PM
I've posted too much in this thread today but JB's joke reminded me of something. We always wondered how Walt poisoned Brock. Was that scene with Brock eating fruit loops hinting that Walt poisoned his fruit loops? I need to watch the episode again but pretty sure Walt made a reference to the cereal.
Hmm, seems too evil even for Walt to mock the poor kid like that. Walt justified poisoning Brock as an absolute last resort, and expressed genuine remorse and relief when Jesse revealed Brock would be okay on top of that garage.
You do notice a palpable discomfort Brock has in front of Walt. Could it be possible Brock knows Walt did something bad to him, or am I reaching?
Quote from: Brando on September 09, 2013, 10:09:54 PM
I've posted too much in this thread today but JB's joke reminded me of something. We always wondered how Walt poisoned Brock. Was that scene with Brock eating fruit loops hinting that Walt poisoned his fruit loops? I need to watch the episode again but pretty sure Walt made a reference to the cereal.
In an episode of Talking Bad, Vince spoiled how the writers believe Walt poisoned Brock. I can spoil it if you want.
Quote from: ©brad on September 09, 2013, 10:22:58 PM
You do notice a palpable discomfort Brock has in front of Walt. Could it be possible Brock knows Walt did something bad to him, or am I reaching?
It doesn't seem like you're reaching, Brock's actions clearly support that he might even know that Walter is the one who poisoned him. I wouldn't say he acts uncomfortable, but his mom definitely reiterates this point when she tells him to give Walter a more polite response.
Reflection of first episode of the show.
Walt, in the desert, with a gun, ready to defend himself. Except this time, it's not firetrucks.
And then he gives up.
One thing that occurred to me during this week's episode is that I don't think we're really seen Heisenberg all season (save maybe for his "tread lightly" to Hank). Think of the end of last year, sitting in his chair, coldly waiting for his prison job to be carried out, being a dick to everyone. Total confidence. This season has been a return to Walt, he's still a liar but he's less good at it. In the scene with the Nazis I was actually scared for him, look at the framing with Uncle Jack standing tall over him in the chair, he didn't have the power in the room. If I were him, I'd definitely be scared of Todd's dudes who have definitely seen that he may now be weak enough to overthrow. And all of this said, it took all of the joy out of seeing Walt finally being caught just because he's just so weak and pathetic in that moment you can't help but feel sorry for him.
I also had a little bit of a problem with the racing towards the money scene, not sure if it was the writing/staging/performance but Walt naming all of that incriminating stuff over the phone just seemed too too perfect/convenient for Jesse's plan. Generally whatever plan you think is going to be perfectly executed is always thrown with a hitch. I guess you could say the hitch here was Todd's guys showing up but I really expected Walt to not quite go all the way on the phone and to the money.
I'm also really worried that there's only 3 episodes left. Isn't there so much story left to tell!? Does anyone else feel like they might have to rush to get from where we are now to the flash-forwards and beyond?
Quote from: modage on September 10, 2013, 10:14:29 AM
One thing that occurred to me during this week's episode is that I don't think we're really seen Heisenberg all season (save maybe for his "tread lightly" to Hank). Think of the end of last year, sitting in his chair, coldly waiting for his prison job to be carried out, being a dick to everyone. Total confidence. This season has been a return to Walt, he's still a liar but he's less good at it. In the scene with the Nazis I was actually scared for him, look at the framing with the dude standing tall over him in the chair, he didn't have the power in the room. If I were him, I'd definitely be scared of Todd's dudes who have definitely seen that he may now be weak enough to overthrow. And all of this said, it took all of the joy out of seeing Walt finally being caught just because he's just so weak and pathetic in that moment you can't help but feel sorry for him.
I also had a little bit of a problem with the racing towards the money scene, not sure if it was the writing/staging/performance but Walt naming all of that incriminating stuff over the phone just seemed too too perfect/convenient for Jesse's plan. Generally whatever plan you think is going to be perfectly executed is always thrown with a hitch. I guess you could say the hitch here was Todd's guys showing up but I really expected Walt to not quite go all the way on the phone and to the money.
I'm also really worried that there's only 3 episodes left. Isn't there so much story left to tell!? Does anyone else feel like they might have to rush to get from where we are now to the flash-forwards and beyond?
I'm assuming the next episode will be the last episode of the present day. In the first episode of season 5 part 1 Walt has a big machine gun in the trunk of a car. Could he have been preparing for a battle against the Aryan's? They know where he lives/d, so that would explain why his house was abandoned in episode 1 of season 5 part 2. Ideally Walt could pin the prison murders and crystal meth cooking on the Aryan's, avoiding any and all implication.
Doesn't need to be said but: what an episode.
Thoughts on the cliffhanger: I'm definitely in the camp of thinking if they were going to kill Hank or Jesse it would've made more narrative sense to end the episode on it. It would've made for an amazing ending, how do you pass that up? UNLESS the next episode doesn't start right where we left the last episode and we're left to wonder how it all panned out for a little while. Kind of like they did with Jesse and the gasoline in the house (though we knew he wasn't going to burn it down). I like to think that they do this so that the binge watchers are subjected to the same cliffhangers as those of us who watch it weekly (at least to some degree). So if that's the case, I suppose I could still see Hank dying out there in the desert.
Things I thought were weird, but don't care: Walt's admission over the phone seemed a little convenient, and the sound in that scene felt strange but whatever it was awesome. Also the Nazi's got to a place in the middle of the desert unbelievably fast, and they brought a crazy amount of firepower for the job they thought they were doing. Also they shot the SUV their precious cook was in quite a bit. But whatever, it was awesome.
Not really a criticism, but I wish burying the fake barrel was Jesse's idea, not Hank's.
Ridiculous Prediction: Walt somehow negotiates a cease-fire. Saves Hank and Gomez under the pretense that they give him the recording from the phone call and never speak of any of this to anyone again. Then... somehow Jesse ends up with the Nazi's? Maybe Walt gives him to them. Then... Ok, I haven't thought this out well enough. But Walt grabs a barrel of money, calls up Saul's guy, and leaves town. The point is even though Walt is such a terrible person at this point, I want to be rooting for him against whoever that giant gun is for in the flash forward. So I hope it's for the Nazi's, and it'd be even better if he was somehow saving Jesse from them. Then once he's done nazi-killing he tell's Jesse about Jane, and eats some Ricin (edit: actually it makes a lot more sense to go after Lydia with the ricin, since the Nazi's are screwed without her buyers).
Alternate ending: Walt finally does meth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B16ZybnrwHo
that sounds pretty awesome.
I'm watching season 2, it's my favorite. Before last weeks episode, I saw the one where Hank discovers Tucco's two boys in the junkyard, one with the arm ripped off. I thought he was such an idiot for sending that picture to Walt, what bad taste. And then later he says at a meeting "Those pictures are hilarious, there's one of me posing with him on my website." It seemed like something really out of character for Hank and just a plot device to get the information to Walt that Tucco had killed them, but it's interesting to see it tie together in the last episode with Hank using his photography skills to nab Walt. Are there any other examples of Hank's hidden talent? I can only think of the Schraderbrau label on his beer.
Quote from: Reelist on September 11, 2013, 07:49:54 PM
I'm watching season 2, it's my favorite. Before last weeks episode, I saw the one where Hank discovers Tucco's two boys in the junkyard, one with the arm ripped off. I thought he was such an idiot for sending that picture to Walt, what bad taste. And then later he says at a meeting "Those pictures are hilarious, there's one of me posing with him on my website." It seemed like something really out of character for Hank and just a plot device to get the information to Walt that Tucco had killed them
I went through the entire series earlier this year. There were some things in the earlier seasons that stood out to me too. It was things you could never see the characters doing like Hank sending Walt the pic. Also, A pregnant Skyler threatening a drug dealer. As I continued the series it made more sense.
The Gilligan quote of turning Mr. Chips into Scarface is known to anyone familiar with the show. On my rewatching of the show, I realized it went well beyond just evolving the character of Walt. It was transforming a tv family and the tv family genre. It turned the Cosby Show into Scarface. The Sopranos remade tv by changing the type of family we're used to seeing portrayed. Breaking Bad took a stereotypical tv family and placed them into another genre thus making them change.
When the pilot begins, some of the character's that fill up the Breaking Bad universe were very generic, stereotypical characters. We've seen these characters multiple times in the world of TV and they do stupid things like send their Brother in law a pic of a dead body. It's Walt's first decision to cook meth or his original sin that not only puts him on his path to transforming into Scarface but transforming everyone and everything around him. It's like a drop of ink slowly taking over a glass of water. As Walt's first sin spreads, it begins to transform the people around him. They go from being cliches to being fully formed unique individuals with a lot of depth. We see it with Skyler first because she is the first affected by Walt's decision. When Hank discovers Heisenberg, he evolves and is no longer just the big mouthed brother in law. Marie's issues began as a conventional way to bring about drama. When Walt's decision causes Hank to get shot, Marie is now affected and her issues resurface but in way that expands her character.
Walt Jr.'s naivete has kept him from being directly affected like the others leaving him almost the same character from the pilot. In season 1 before Walt's decision totally transformed everyone and everything in it, Walt Jr had his own plotline which now seems out of place. He was caught buying beer and went on a ride along with Hank. Since then, Walt Jr.'s role has shrunk because his innocence leaves little room for him in this new world. Everyone makes jokes because you only see him at breakfast but at a family breakfast is one of the few places where he is able to exist.
Good post. I wonder if keeping Walt Jr.'s innocence is essential, or will he be dirtied in these last few episodes -- dirtied to the point, perhaps, where he has to kill to protect his family? Maybe he's in a situation where if he doesn't, his dad will be hurt. It would bring the evolution full circle.
I think the two minor sore thumbs from this series are that Walt Jr. hasn't been more incorporated, and Marie's kleptomania has seem rather tacked on and swept under the rug. Sure, the latter was used to illustrate a point, but I think it could have been more fleshed out if the writers had wanted to more fully paint the juxtaposition of the two families (*especially* in light of Skylar's brushes with embezzlement).
While we're on the subject of Walter Jr, a question I've had is do we ever once meet Louis? Is he one of the kids he tried to buy beer with? I just don't remember him, yet Walt is hanging out with him all the time. I wouldn't suspect them to be up to no good besides maybe smoking a lil weed, but I do like Ono's idea of him being 'dirtied' at the end. It's hard to anticipate how he'd react to finding out his Dad is in danger, but maybe Louis has an uncle who can help?
Walt Jr kills Hank to save Walt. That'd be awesome. I don't know how you get to that point, but thats for the Br Ba writers to figure out.
Louis is the kid that first refers to him as flynn in the first season. he asks walt for him at the door. Maybe second..I can't remember the episode.
Can we talk? Tonight's episode is directed by Rian Johnson and Gilligan says it's the best one they've ever done. Someone say something. I'm freaking out.
My stupid predictions:
- Gomez dies, Hank dies
- Walt is taken captive by Nazi's to go cook, and takes Jesse with him
- When Marie finds out about Hank's death, she goes public with Jesse's confession tapes
I can't wait to find out how wrong I am.
Oh, NYMag published an article (http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/seitz-drama-endings-breaking-bad.html) I don't entirely agree with about how it's impossible to craft satisfying endings to cable dramas. They included one tidbit about season 3 I didn't know about:
"Gilligan's Breaking Bad writers, for example, realized midway through writing season three that they weren't happy with the story's direction, so they killed off their two main antagonists and focused on a new one."
I assume they're talking about the cousins, but in listening to the podcasts and whatnot, I never remember anyone saying they didn't like the season's direction at that point so they decided to kill them off?
Yeah, I can't remember if it was on a commentary or podcast or interview or what but I've definitely heard that before. I think they realized after buliding them up as these mythic bad guys that they just weren't very interesting dramatically and went in another direction. If you watch the Season 3 premiere, it's almost like a different show, much more heightened and stylized when those dudes are onscreen.
yeah, ok. i'm done. thanks. i'll see yall in icu.
I think Hank's ***** could've been given a little more attention. It feels that it would have been much more dramatic to end the last episode instead of opening this one. The way it was written was great but the way it was filmed/staged/scored just didn't hit me like it should have. Anyone else feeling this way?
That said, everything else in this episode was amazing.
I totally called (http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/review-breaking-bad-season-premiere-promises-all-bad-things-must-come-to-an-end-20130808) Walt's Jane confession.
You can't help but feel like there are certain dangling threads that are just too large not to be addressed before the curtains close. The most glaring examples both involve Walt's deceptions towards Jesse (his inaction during Jane's death and his very deliberate poisoning of young Brock). For this writer it's less important to find out exactly how Walt poisoned Brock and more important simply to see Jesse process this information. But since Walt is the only witness to either incident, the only way for it to come up would literally have to be Walt confessing these sins to Jesse, which we suspect will happen at some point during these final episodes. If we had to guess, we'd say it'll probably be in a moment of cruelty and hubris rather than an absolving admission.
Loved the scene at the house, everything gone to shit. No options, no hope.
The endgame seems much clearer now. The question is: will Walt be going back to get even with the Nazis? Or to free Jesse (though he blames him for Hank's death and the money)? Or to protect his family from the Nazis?
Well if we're going full douche and calling dibs on predictions: I called that Hank was going to die at the beginning of the episode and that Walt was gonna disappear via Saul's guy, Now where's my cookie!?
No, all unfunny jokes aside, Walt's confession about Jane was one of the coldest things I've ever seen on television. I think Jesse is going to live, he's been through so fucking much, killing him would be overkill. I think he and Walt Jr. are the only two characters that gonna make it outta this alive. But for everyone else, like the song in the episode said: "Say goodbye to everyone you knooow!"
I liked Marie wearing all black. I liked the drawing of Skylar smiling on the wall behind her at the beginning and later on when she picks up the knife. Fuck, this episode was a true masterpiece.
EDIT: I just thought. I'm pretty sure Walt knew the cops were listening in on the convo and that's why he said all that stuff. He said Skylar didn't know anything about his meth business and never supported him (basically exonerating Skylar from any wrong doing) , he basically said he was the one that killed Hank, he said a bunch of stuff that only incriminated himself. He knew he was going to leave right after that. That's why he was crying so hard, because a- he didn't truly mean what he was saying and b- he knew he had to leave after that and he won't be talking to or seeing his family for a long time. Fuck, a rewatch is a-coming.
Dear god...
I have never seen a movie or television show that did what those 43 minutes did to me. Holy shit.
What Walt did at the end was brilliant and absolutely crushing.
And the Jane line was sooo cold.
"My name is ASAC Schrader, you can fuck yourself. Do what you gonna- BANG!" - Hank Schrader
That was some badass shit. That last line kinda reminded me of (SPOOOOOILERS FOR THE WIRE AHEAD) Stringer Bell's last line.
Both gone away like badass motherfuckers, no begging.
I literally got everything I wanted out of this episode. Especially this:
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 12:14:10 AMAs for what happens immediately next, my gut says that Walt will have to win and lose in some combination that really eats away at his soul. I mean look where we are in the final season; it's certainly time for that next step.
And, of course, this:
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 12:14:10 AMSo what's the endgame? Are they really going to turn Walter White fully into the antagonist, as promised? This is honestly an open question. Before he ordered the hit on Jesse, they had been pulling back a bit. And now he would rather protect Hank than save himself. So are they going to go all the way or not? This question will probably be answered in the next episode.
That question certainly was answered. This was an entire alarms-blazing, punch-in-the-face episode of only that. This is exactly I was hoping for; I was ready to be abused and terrorized. I have possibly never been more satisfied after a Breaking Bad episode.
You can watch the transformation happening. When Hank is shot and Walt falls to the sand, that is Walter White's death. The remainders of his humanity are expelled in that mournful wail. He collapses, drained, then rises as Heisenberg. Now he is a predator. He finds his prey, Jesse Pinkman, and just watches it for a while.
The next push happened when he snatched Hollie. I had a total basic instinct reaction to that, as I suspect everyone did. That's just not something we can accept, no matter what kind of "antihero" is doing it. Brilliant move by the writers; that's one of those things that simply violates the basic rules of civilization.
Finally, of course, that phone call. Walt's tears were so perfect — you could just see him pushing himself further into that darkness. Amazing.
good call on the phone call to skylar being an act of self immolation rather than genuine threats, paralleled beautifully by the cold open. i had my doubts, thinking that vince gilligan had done himself and the show a disservice by playing favorites and proclaiming this to be the best thing they've ever done but jesus christ, never happier to be wrong. this was basically perfect. i was totally okay with how anticlimactic the continuation of the shootout was, mostly because i thought the last episode ending the way it did was bullshit. walt had to lose everything at some point, and i'm glad it was this episode and blown away by how they did it.
Actually, I think now that he's truly lost everything he's going to somehow- to some extent redeem himself by shooting up nazis. He tricked the phone-tapping cops into thinking that it was him along and Skyler played along well. He does what he could never do, separates himself from his family and only now they are safe. I mean he's entirely shed the identity of Walter White at this stage but he'll try to 'restore' some sort of balance by taking out the nazis. I think I wrote previously that he was going to kill the nazis and liberate Jessie. But this episode he didn't give a flying fuck and he probably thinks Jessie is dead (or will be soon). We're flashing forward next episode so we'll see.
But basically, his family is safe now without him. He no longer can be Walter White. But he is certainly going fuck up a few people soon enough.
What are you guy's thoughts on the dog that crosses the street at the very end of the episode right after the car drives off?
I'm thinking it either represents what Heisenberg is now: A homeless little doggy, roaming around alone, with more darkness than light (notice the dog has more black than white) or it represents Jesse "the rabid dog", being the only one left to come at Walter', and even though Jesse is essentially on a leash right now (chained to cook meth), he won't be for too long and once he's free, knowing about Jane and Brock and everything else. He's gonna come at Walt.
I still think when the two face off at the very end, Jesse will live and Walt will just use the ricin on himself. We'll see.
Watching the episode again... Anyone else catch this:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi39.tinypic.com%2F2njk5k8.jpg&hash=5465b45fb4c543eda43b4ff06d7b326a7345ea9f)
Callback to the first cook. Hah. Love it.
I feel like the remaining 90 mins are going to feel like a revenge flick. Walt destroys the nazis to save his family. Then falls on his own sword.
why would the nazis go after walts family?
as far as uncle jack is concerned they are "square" and regardless of what walt said on the phone to skylar any investigation would just show that walt did not shoot a MILLION rounds out in the desert. whether they find the car or not.
believe it or not i called it in my mind that the money was going to be the major factor in deciding the outcome of the shootout, wish i'd posted it now so i could get my cookie. i think it's something everyone forgot about, it was the whole reason they were out there after all.
i've never felt more psychologically connected to a scene as i did in the home confrontation. even walt jr's constant confusion seemed to perfectly represent a part of what i felt at that point. it was fucking awesome when they had the phone and the knives next to each other as Skylar approached the bench, she even looked at the phone the whole time to throw us off. she could've called the cops as walt jr did instinctively when he decided to act (hero moment for the kid). but instead she chose to go all stabby.
this episode is a master class in a lot of things, including how to do tone changes seamlessly. after shitting myself during the shootout and its aftermath, i was LAUGHING when he was pushing the barrel across the desert. then i was near tears (fuck it i was teary ok) in the home confrontation.
if walt returns to save someone it will be primarily in two forms:
1 to give some money to skylar, although i'm sure she'll be fine with her car wash business.
2 to save JESSE from the nazis if it becomes clear to him that they are threatening brock. he could redeem himself that way, saving brock and liberating jesse and then THEY will be square.
i think i'm completely wrong in the second prediction only because it was so clear that walt was happy for jesse to die right there on the spot. but he also was reluctant to make a deal with the nazis. i think his beef with the nazis is now personal in that they stole his money and totally fucked things up by shooting everyone.
the reason this episode was probably the best is because the stakes could not have been higher. from now on it feels like it will be a personal vendetta, a revenge thing as cine said. either jesse wants revenge on walt for jane, brock, etc. or walt wants revenge on the nazis for the money and throwing everything into chaos. those are the two strands that could push the show along. but it seems boring compared to the annihilation of walter white and his precious family that we have just seen.
i'm happy to just let it happen at this point. it won't get better than this.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 16, 2013, 01:24:04 AM
i'm happy to just let it happen at this point. it won't get better than this.
i'm still waiting for the Scarface-esque massacre featuring Walt's little friend Mr. M60 in his trunk.
also, the reason i said the thing about Walt going to save his family is because the ep 15 teaser alluded to the nazis coming for his family. so i don't know the context of all that but looks like IT'S-A COMIN'.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 16, 2013, 01:24:04 AM
if Walt returns to save someone it will be primarily in two forms:
1 to give some money to Skyler, although I'm sure she'll be fine with her car wash business.
2 to save JESSE from the Nazis if it becomes clear to him that they are threatening brock. he could redeem himself that way, saving brock and liberating jesse and then THEY will be square.
1. Sky wont be able to keep the car wash because it was bought with drug money, cant see DEA, APD or any other authorities letting her keep it just like that.
2. even if that happens which I also think is a long shot, no way Jesse let bygones be bygones. btw, still cant believe Walt how gave him up to the Nazis, that shit was beyond cold, and the Jane thing to top it all off...damn
that fight with Sky and Jr. was flawlessly executed, and the acting, when Junior protects Sky Walter just shouts "what the hell is wrong with you ,we're a family!" then he sadly whispers ''my family'' realizing then that it's over, they're done. Bryan Cranston FTW
my god Todd is the biggest psycho ever, poor poor Jesse, one way I can see him getting out of that (without any help) is he uses some magic chemistry trick on Todd ala Walter vs crazy 8 or some shit like that, other than that he is done.
Quote from: cine on September 16, 2013, 02:11:06 AM
the ep 15 teaser alluded
this is ridiculous.
GUYS THIS IS A PLEA: i didn't realise that AMC actually goes out of its way to actively spoil (however vaguely) the next episode in the form of teasers. what kind of shit is that? the torrents i watch are free of commercials and teasers, only the "catch up" clips at the start of the episode remain, and i could do without those as well.
but to think that all this time you people have actually been shown footage or hints at what comes next is beyond ridiculous. i know it's common practice for many shows to have this, but i've always assumed that everyone just tuned out before then. especially at a time like this on the show.
i understand now the comment that someone made that at the end of the shootout next weeks "teaser" just showed more of the same shootout. i was like.. teaser? what the fuck? but goddamn
NEW RULE FOR THE ONE REMAINING EPISODE WHERE THIS CAN POSSIBLY HAPPEN:
NO references to anything AMC is stupid enough to put in any teaser. if you want to discuss that shit post it with spoiler warnings.
spoilers (sorry p. posted before seeing yours.)
i don't see how or why uncle jack would go after walt's remaining family, except maybe to cut off all loose ends. todd has been to the car wash and... does he meet skyler at some point?
the vo in the promo seems to be saul's half of a conversation between him and walt wherein i'm guessing walt expresses some intent to ensure his family's safety from the granite state, and the "they" going after her would be the DEA et al. there's too much heat surrounding skyler for walt to try to help in any way from a distance and i don't see saul getting involved in that.
also based on the flash forward there's quite a bit of time that elapses before walt decides to come back, which i think at this point is clearly going to be a suicide mission. in the first episode of the season he alludes to having driven directly for 30 hours straight from new hampshire. i feel like one of two (or both?) things would bring this on. the rest of walt's family are murdered after jesse divulges information about just how much skyler and marie know and he's going down in flames and taking down as many nazis as he can, or walt catches wind of jesse still being alive and he comes to try to finish him off. after this episode, walt letting jesse go in anyway way is unfathomable, and i don't think redemption is in the cards for walt at all. i don't think i want it to be either.
either way i do think this shit is ending a la scarface.
Quote from: Fernando on September 16, 2013, 02:19:26 AM
that fight with Sky and Jr. was flawlessly executed, and the acting, when Junior protects Sky Walter just shouts "what the hell is wrong with you ,we're a family!" then he sadly whispers ''my family'' realizing then that it's over, they're done. Bryan Cranston FTW
my god Todd is the biggest psycho ever, poor poor Jesse, one way I can see him getting out of that (without any help) is he uses some magic chemistry trick on Todd ala Walter vs crazy 8 or some shit like that, other than that he is done.
Man, I thought Jr was going to get stabbed or something. I was on edge, totally.
Todd has to be the most curious character in the series. He's not actively evil or decidedly malicious but he's this simple psychopath who only aims to please.
the internet is abuzz with theories about the chessboard:
http://i.imgur.com/wvSomKP.jpg (pic his high res)
everyone is trying to assign roles to each of the white pieces, but here's my theory which i haven't seen anywhere else:
The king is obviously walt. the knight is most likely Jesse because he is surrounded by the dark team, the nazis. the other two pieces, the pawns flanking Walt are NOT characters.. people have mentioned Saul or even Skylar. i doubt either of these people would come to Walt's rescue at this point, and besides, pawns are disposable pieces which neither of those characters are.
so the pawns are the two things he will use to defend himself as he goes towards the opposing team:
The ricin and the M60.
this shot on the chess board is not predicting anything but just foreshadowing the final "end game" scenario which walt has just committed himself to. this shot having occurred just after his phone call to Skylar which was a calculated move on his part to protect her.
if we assume the "i did everything and you were not responsible" spiel was successful then skylar and his family is, for the moment, off the hook. whether he cares about the knight or not, he's gonna need it when he comes for the black team and it may incidentally be saved in the process.
the black king is uncle jack and the queen i believe could be the invisible piece barely noticeable behind the white king. that being lydia as she travels all over the world. the piece is lined up with a pawn which if taken would place the white king in check. that pawn is there to entice the queen but also leaves her vulnerable to the pouncing of the other pawn. after the queen goes for the first pawn, which is tainted with RICIN, and she gets taken down, the black team sees how vulnerable the king is and follows. the last defense is the m60.
the metaphor only visualizes the current scenario, without giving away any final moves. it also fulfils the role of the recurring "cornering" that happens in every episode.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2yGAPCf.gif&hash=5477e308bdd719c32759127b0bb3f12ddcc79596)
That was great finale or it would work as such for me (Walt driving away). Writing room decided to go with epilogue - it isn't first time we see it (The Wire anyone?), but I bet more series will choose this route in future. Payload is here, now get used to the idea it is over: that will be the role of the last two episodes.
As for Walt rescuing/protecting anyone, I believe he is now all alone and only cares for respect. Will he try to save or kill Jesse? I would say that second option is more likely to happen: someone didn't keep promise. Protecting family? "You cross me, you pay for it" - this is main factor driving Heisenberg (it's his ego not affection toward other people). Till next week.
Quote from: Freddie on September 15, 2013, 11:23:22 PM
Well if we're going full douche and calling dibs on predictions: I called that Hank was going to die at the beginning of the episode and that Walt was gonna disappear via Saul's guy, Now where's my cookie!?
Yeah, except you called that last week (and both were fairly obvious) and I called this 6 weeks ago.
Quote from: Freddie on September 15, 2013, 11:23:22 PM
EDIT: I just thought. I'm pretty sure Walt knew the cops were listening in on the convo and that's why he said all that stuff. He said Skylar didn't know anything about his meth business and never supported him (basically exonerating Skylar from any wrong doing) , he basically said he was the one that killed Hank, he said a bunch of stuff that only incriminated himself. He knew he was going to leave right after that. That's why he was crying so hard, because a- he didn't truly mean what he was saying and b- he knew he had to leave after that and he won't be talking to or seeing his family for a long time. Fuck, a rewatch is a-coming.
Considering your history of appropriation of other people's ideas, I doubt you had this thought on your own but yes this was completely obvious that this was the only reason for his call: to let Skylar off the hook. The entire dialogue was bullshit because he knew the cops were listening.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 16, 2013, 12:05:27 AM
You can watch the transformation happening. When Hank is shot and Walt falls to the sand, that is Walter White's death. The remainders of his humanity are expelled in that mournful wail. He collapses, drained, then rises as Heisenberg. Now he is a predator. He finds his prey, Jesse Pinkman, and just watches it for a while.
I don't buy this because he still goes home and tries to pack up his family afterwards. It crushes him that they won't go with him and he knows that there is no way after all the lies that Skylar will believe he did everything he could to try to stop Hank's death. When he looks down at Junior protecting Skylar, it crushes him to see them looking at him like he's a monster. He's spent the last few episodes doing incredibly selfless un-Heisenbergian things: giving up his money to attempt to save Hank, preparing to go to jail rather than have Hank killed, the entire phone call to Skylar and leaving Holly behind, etc. The Jesse thing is a specific Heisenbergian outburst because he blames Jesse for Hank's death and the whole mess because he broke the criminal code. He may still go full Heisenberg but he's pretty defeated now.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 16, 2013, 01:24:04 AM
why would the nazis go after walts family?
They're definitely going to go after Jesse's confession tape, which is at Marie's house. So that'll get messy. The other thing to consider is where is Lydia in all this? After all the drug cartels and Gus' that Walt has been through it seems weird to have him brought down by a couple of rogue Nazis. Lydia has to play a role in this before the end too.
Quote from: samsong on September 16, 2013, 03:18:05 AM
and i don't think redemption is in the cards for walt at all. i don't think i want it to be either.
Gilligan did say in earlier interviews he did see the ending "as some kind of victory for Walt" which would probably allow for Walt coming back to fight against the bad-baddies to save Jesse or his family before biting the bullet himself. We've seen everything been taken from him but we don't want to watch 2 more episodes of Walt getting kicked in the teeth, we want to see his Heisenberg genius rise up and pull one last coup to get those bastards. Gilligan wants to deliver. He won't get to live probably and he definitely wont get his family back but he probably will get some sort of redemption, esp. after what he did for Skylar.
We all to varying degrees of success predicted the big moments, but this show isn't like Lost where the fun comes from unveiling loopy "answers" so much as marveling at the creators as they perfectly execute the scenes you knew were coming and have been dreading. Hank confronting Walt, Jesse finding out about Brock/Jane, Junior learning who his father really is - these are big, almost impossible scenes to write and the show keeps nailing them one after the next. It's astounding. Gilligan mentioned that sometimes the most unpredictable thing is what seems the most logical and predictable on the surface. I don't know, he said it better than that but you get the idea.
Mod I have to disagree on Hank's death. That hit me in the gut, as did every other second of the episode. And the knife fight in the living room was the most agonizing thing I've seen on TV since (spoiler FOR THE SOPRANOS alert)...... Adriana's death in the Sopranos.
admin edit: added the thing i said below
Quote from: ©brad on September 16, 2013, 11:36:59 AM
(spoiler alert)......
if you really intend a spoiler alert to be effective you should try saying what the spoiler generally relates to before you post the spoiler, eg. "spoiler for the sopranos".. otherwise how the hell will anyone know if they can read the spoiler or not? especially when it's a spoiler for a completely different show that no one was expecting to be spoiled.
also:
Quote from: ©brad on September 16, 2013, 11:36:59 AM
this show isn't like Lost
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6sVUrl2.jpg&hash=126e6c5b8506b95c4b61a5a15a867195bafff452)
stolen from reddit of course.
I try to understand why some people (not the I HATE SKYLER people) would think that Walter express with true feelings with the phone call. Of course, Walt didn't want Skyler involved with his business. He wanted to be the man with no wife involved. There is some truth, for him, in what he's saying. But he's acting them, for the cops. He's not talking to Skyler. And she knows.
Heisenberg is now a creation from the public (the cold open in 509). He's a myth. The myth is never the man. Walt acts like the myth in his phone call.
Thanks/sorry for spoiler gaffe.
Quote from: Drenka on September 16, 2013, 11:54:36 AM
I try to understand why some people (not the I HATE SKYLER people) would think that Walter express with true feelings with the phone call. Of course, Walt didn't want Skyler involved with his business. He wanted to be the man with no wife involved. There is some truth, for him, in what he's saying. But he's acting them, for the cops. He's not talking to Skyler. And she knows.
There was a lot going on in that phone call, including what I felt was a very meta moment with the writers calling out the Skyler haters. But just like Sopranos had two different audiences, Skyler haters are stupid and not worth thinking about.
Quote from: ©brad on September 16, 2013, 12:03:12 PMThere was a lot going on in that phone call, including what I felt was a very meta moment with the writers calling out the Skyler haters
Could you specify what that is? I didn't even catch that Walt might be changing what he said for the cops on the line, I just thought his ego had inflated to cartoonish proportions between his admissions to Jesse and this call. Why would he want to let them know Hank is dead, just to intimidate the fuck out of them, or out of sympathy for his family so they don't have to keep guessing? A little bit of both I would say, and another instance of Walt further incriminating himself when he has an out. He just really wants to see the shit hit the fan, doesn't he? Me too.
Quote from: Reelist on September 16, 2013, 12:26:31 PM
Quote from: ©brad on September 16, 2013, 12:03:12 PMThere was a lot going on in that phone call, including what I felt was a very meta moment with the writers calling out the Skyler haters
Could you specify what that is? I didn't even catch that Walt might be changing what he said for the cops on the line, I just thought his ego had inflated to cartoonish proportions between his admissions to Jesse and this call. Why would he want to let them know Hank is dead, just to intimidate the fuck out of them, or out of sympathy for his family so they don't have to keep guessing? A little bit of both I would say, and another instance of Walt further incriminating himself when he has an out. He just really wants to see the shit hit the fan, doesn't he? Me too.
Yeah, that's not what I think it is; he's "saving" Skyler. He knows the cops are listening. His wife threatened him with a knife. His son called 911. It's over. He gave up Holly too. We know that Skyler is not a victim; as Jr said, she's as bad as him because she was his partner. But the cops don't know that, that's why he acts "cartoonish".
Yeah he's definitely trying to save her as best he can at that point. That being said I feel parts of that phone call were sincere. It's messy.
The meta bit isn't a big thing, I just felt a small part of that was the writers saying "okay haters, this is what you wanted him to say all along right? You happy now?"
As far as Walt's motivation goes, the only legitimate reason for him to make the call is to let Skyler off the hook. It's the biggest gift he could give her at this point (that and their daughter back which he does in the following scene). He did not just call up Skyler to call her a bitch and gloat. He called her to let her off the hook with the cops, taking all the blame, saying she had no choice. Period. If there were moments where his real frustrations slipped in there, it was only to help sell this lie. So maybe like 85% staged and 15% "real" Walt? He is breaking down crying at the end of the scene. That's real. Him calling her a bitch was just performance. He's crushed that his family views him as a monster and also knows that with the lies upon lies upon lies, there is no way he can explain to them that he did everything he could to save Hank, but it wasn't enough.
Quote from: Reelist on September 16, 2013, 12:26:31 PM
Could you specify what that is? I didn't even catch that Walt might be changing what he said for the cops on the line, I just thought his ego had inflated to cartoonish proportions between his admissions to Jesse and this call. Why would he want to let them know Hank is dead, just to intimidate the fuck out of them, or out of sympathy for his family so they don't have to keep guessing? A little bit of both I would say, and another instance of Walt further incriminating himself when he has an out. He just really wants to see the shit hit the fan, doesn't he? Me too.
did you read anything else in this thread?
it was primarily to absolve skylar of any guilt in the eyes of the law. the specific things he mentioned functioned thus:
- first the bit where skylar caught on: he starts mocking her and he fabricates a quote where she supposedly pleaded "walt you have to stop this, it's immoral, it's illegal someone might get hurt!" the camera slowly pushes in and you see her trying to make sense of what is really going on here, you see her mind working.. she knows he's not dumb enough to believe that the cops aren't there, Flynn CALLED THEM as he fled the house!
- the next few lines are really just keeping in line with what the cops already think of him, that he attacked his wife and stole their kid, he reprimands her for telling Flynn what he does and belittles her some more, the cops won't doubt he's a monster capable of subduing his family to his whim.
- after he says "you stupid bitch! how dare you.." then we see him breaking character visually, this is after we've seen skylar come to her own realisation, we are now shown what she knows, and i think she can even envision what we are seeing.. that this must be some real duplicitous act by walt for their own good. and that he has some humanity still, which we see in that moment of silence, and it is heartbreaking.
- when she says "i'm sorry" i think she really means it, but not in the way of apology, rather in a lamentation of the way things have had to go. at this point she is also playing two parts in the scene, she's doing the exact same thing he is doing. she knows she was just as bloodthirsty as he was, all the shit he just said is very far from the truth, and she can't forget her part in that. if anyone is able to see any redeeming qualities in walt, skylar comes as close as anyone is able to get by seeing herself in him. she went heisenberg too.
- in the next part he goes on about how she has no right to discuss his business because only he knows, and all along she is just silently nodding as in yeah i'm with you i'm gonna let you play out the rest of your plan.
- why does he claim responsibility for hanks death? if he blamed the nazis they'd most definitely come after him and his family with full force for snitching. and it plays into the narrative he's creating anyway. i don't really think skylar is that shocked about Hank, it's marie who is hit the hardest.
- then skylar asks him to return holly and to come home.. i can't even tell what's true and not at this point. the first part or both?
i dunno, i think skylar understands walts actions better than she lets on. not just in the phone call but in general. just like walt has some humanity left deep down inside him, skylar has that same monster deep down inside her. this phone call was their final acknowledgment of this. they're kindred spirits really.
let's break down some more scenes!
Damn
Giving up Jesse. Telling Jesse about Jane
Family altercation Damn, Damn
Taking Holly. Goddamn
What the fuck did Todd do to Jesse? I'm glad they didn't show it cause it's so much more disturbing not knowing. Is Jesse Todd's pet now? Is he the spider? I rewatched the episode and Todd calmly suggests torturing Jesse and then suggest he could be the one to do it. Todd is creepiest and most disturbing characters ever while still being completely understated.
I don't think we've seen yet what bring Walt out of hiding. It looks like Walt is trying to do the best thing for his family which is taking the blame for everything and disappearing. Something elses is gonna have to happen to bring him back. I agree with a previous post mentioning that Lydia needs to be playing a part soon. They've set her a lot this season and doesn't make sense for her to be on the sideline for the remaining part of the season.
Surprised to see that some people were confused over Walt's phone call. I thought it was obvious what Walt was doing and obvious Skyler knew too.
Also surprised to learn people watch next week teasers. After a next week teaser on the final season of The Wire spoiled the return of a character, I have not watched another next week teaser.
Quote from: modage on September 16, 2013, 07:07:08 AM
Quote from: Freddie on September 15, 2013, 11:23:22 PM
Well if we're going full douche and calling dibs on predictions: I called that Hank was going to die at the beginning of the episode and that Walt was gonna disappear via Saul's guy, Now where's my cookie!?
Yeah, except you called that last week (and both were fairly obvious) and I called this 6 weeks ago.
I called Walt using Sual's guy over a year ago after s05e01. Just ignore the things where I suggest Skyler did it too.
Quote from: Brando on July 16, 2012, 12:38:55 PM
So his real birthday must be the same as the fake. This show continues to call back to previous plot points. Maybe this new identity of Walt's was set up by Saul's guy from last season. Maybe he disappeared Walt and his family but Skyler refused to go with Walt so they disappeared separately. It makes since that Walt has been living a better part of a year alone with a new identity with no idea where his family is and he has nothing to lose so buys a huge fucking gun at a denny's. Its not the same Denny's from last season's first episode Box Cutter is it?
I don't know if I should be impressed you predicted Walt telling Jesse about Jane or disturbed. Those type of things Walt does only in pure evil I can never see coming and really get to me.
Quote from: Drenka on September 16, 2013, 11:54:36 AM
I try to understand why some people (not the I HATE SKYLER people) would think that Walter express with true feelings with the phone call. Of course, Walt didn't want Skyler involved with his business. He wanted to be the man with no wife involved. There is some truth, for him, in what he's saying. But he's acting them, for the cops. He's not talking to Skyler. And she knows.
He made his mind earlier - by stealing baby (recall how Skyler reacted, when Marie was about to take Holly). Would be phone call more hurtful than that? It isn't only a lie for me. After Hank's death, Walt starts coming to terms with himself. Phone call is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy - they have roles to play and this time there is no way back (positions on chessboard?). Is there humanity left in Walt or in this scene he cleansed himself from humanity for good?
Of course we can make things simpler, if we ignore some parts:
- Walt redeemed himself by almost saving Hank (if we skip part where he invited party to desert 5 minutes earlier)
- Walt redeemed himself by telling the truth about Jane (if we forget that he almost killed Jesse 30 seconds earlier)
- Walt redeemed himself by taking blame in phone call (if we ignore fact, that he was about to run away with Holly)
For me it is too late, too little. I no longer see Walt as protagonist.
Quote from: Mel on September 16, 2013, 01:48:49 PM
Of course we can make things simpler, if we ignore some parts:
- Walt redeemed himself by almost saving Hank (if we skip part where he invited party to desert 5 minutes earlier)
- Walt redeemed himself by telling the truth about Jane (if we forget that he almost killed Jesse 30 seconds earlier)
- Walt redeemed himself by taking blame in phone call (if we ignore fact, that he was about to run away with Holly)
the third point is the only one that makes any sense. and even then not that much.
1 he didn't order the dudes to kill hank, he called them OFF because he specifically did not want that to happen.
2 no one thinks that telling the truth about jane is a redeeming act. it was a spiteful act said in the heat of the moment to further defeat jesse.
3 the fact he was about to run away with holly and then changed his mind is probably the whole catalyst for the phone call. THAT's an actual redemption, at least a change of heart for the better. which is kind of the definition of redemption isn't it?
walt has shown enough humanity in these last few episodes, especially this one, to earn a sliver of hope that some form of redemption may still occur.
Am I the only one useless at work today? My stomach is still in knots.
this was probably the best episode in the series and one of the very best things i've ever seen on tv.
did anyone else notice the godfather 3 style editing?
SPOILERS FOR THIS AND FOR GODFATHER 3
when walter reacts to hank's death his screams are in mute for a moment before turning on the sound just like pacino when sofia coppola dies in gf3.
And also...
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE60ZhXV.gif&hash=774f8686287f9a9f9441657d4cbb3a97f5311d0b)
via... http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/breaking-bad-easter-egg-ozymandias-walt-gus-fring.html
I kinda felt Walt taking Holly was the only way to probably ever spend time with his daughter. After everything that happened he would probably never be able to hold her again. Best case scenario would be that Walt spends life in jail and could only see her if she visited him. Most likely she would grow up resenting him and not visit - unless Skylar treats Walt as a hero to the children and encourages it. That's looking down many rabbit holes though. In current times, Walt will probably never hold Holly again.
In regards to the flashback - was that a direct scene from an early episode? I haven't watched any older episodes in a long time. Just curious if it was a direct lift, re-edit, deleted scene, or even a new scene made to look old.
The cold open was the last scene ever filmed.
Quote from: modage on September 16, 2013, 03:43:38 PM
And also...
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE60ZhXV.gif&hash=774f8686287f9a9f9441657d4cbb3a97f5311d0b)
via... http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/breaking-bad-easter-egg-ozymandias-walt-gus-fring.html
Uhm interesting. Jesse had half his face completely destroyed and the other half was fine. Just like Gus at his moment of death.
Pretend the flash-forwards never happened. If Ozymandias was the series finale, would you be satisfied? I wouldn't like how it ended for Jesse, rotting away as a meth cook/slave again, but overall I would say hell yes.
Quote from: ©brad on September 16, 2013, 05:32:02 PM
Pretend the flash-forwards never happened. If Ozymandias was the series finale, would you be satisfied?
Fuck NOOOOOO!!! I want to see Nazi brains
EVERYWHERE.
Further vindication...
I've seen different reactions to Walt's phone call to Skyler. Some say it was all a ploy to save her from prosecution; others says that it was real and he was railing at her. Does the debate surprise you?
Walley-Beckett: I personally feel like it wasn't open to interpretation. I would hope that people got that it was an absolute ploy on Walt's part. It is the family-man part of Walt playing the part of Heisenberg to exonerate Skyler. I was hoping that it would be clear that the process of the lie and the subterfuge would be clear and that viewers would be with Skyler in their understanding. When we first hear Walt, we think he's gone full Heisenberg. It's outrageous and horrible and abusive what he's saying! But then we start to put the pieces together as Skyler does, and I was hoping people would sort of be traveling that journey with her.
http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/rian-johnson-moira-walley-beckett-breaking-bad-ozymandius-interview.html
Yeah, I don't think that's up for debate. You can see it in her face pretty clearly when she catches on.
I think you can also feel Walt pushing himself further into that dark place, though. It may be an act, but he is venting some actual frustrations, and summoning genuine rage. Some of his lines are purposefully over the top ("stupid bitch"), but other parts he obviously believes. It's complex.
As for whether he continues to get darker or does something somewhat redemptive, I'm open to either possibility. I feel like the writers know much better than I do which is the better way to end things.
I kind of wish there were no flash-forwards. That ending, while knowing there's 2 episodes still left, would be the ultimate cliffhanger.
I believe Vince when he says last night's episode was the best of the series, but I wonder if it's also somewhat of a ploy to lower expectations for the finale? Surely they're not going out with a whimper.
I want to see Walt shoot someone a la Mike, how Chow directed him by raising his surrendered hands.
I want to see Jesse poisoning Todd and crew by feigning confusion and then making phosphene gas.
Here's a question. Skylar agreed to go along with Marie and agree to turn over the tape incriminating Hank. Now that Walt is gone and Hank is dead, do you think she'll still do this? Jesse's confession is still out there. Wouldn't that incriminate Skylar?
*SPOILERS* Charlie Rose is rumored to appear on the next episode. This would imply some sort of interview with the family, maybe. *END SPOILERS*
I disagree with Vince in that the show was the best of the series. Earlier episodes this season have eclipsed it in my mind. I think Confessions was better, for instance.
I would definitely be disappointed if Ozymandias was the finale. It would be a cop out to leave those loose threads hanging, especially when Vince has said they will tie them all up. So we can rest easily that someone will find Huell before he's withered away and replaced by some svelter black standup comedian.
Quote from: modage on September 16, 2013, 07:07:08 AMQuote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 16, 2013, 12:05:27 AM
You can watch the transformation happening. When Hank is shot and Walt falls to the sand, that is Walter White's death. The remainders of his humanity are expelled in that mournful wail. He collapses, drained, then rises as Heisenberg. Now he is a predator. He finds his prey, Jesse Pinkman, and just watches it for a while.
I don't buy this because he still goes home and tries to pack up his family afterwards. It crushes him that they won't go with him and he knows that there is no way after all the lies that Skylar will believe he did everything he could to try to stop Hank's death. When he looks down at Junior protecting Skylar, it crushes him to see them looking at him like he's a monster. He's spent the last few episodes doing incredibly selfless un-Heisenbergian things: giving up his money to attempt to save Hank, preparing to go to jail rather than have Hank killed, the entire phone call to Skylar and leaving Holly behind, etc. The Jesse thing is a specific Heisenbergian outburst because he blames Jesse for Hank's death and the whole mess because he broke the criminal code. He may still go full Heisenberg but he's pretty defeated now.
I don't know, there was a bit of hyperbole in there, but I feel like I should tentatively stand by that. I don't think all of his humanity was drained, but perhaps most of it. That felt like a real death/transformation moment.
The "selfless things" mostly happened before his fall to the sand. The phone call was fairly redemptive but was not entirely selfless, as I sort of described in my last post.
Returning Hollie was not exactly a gesture that deserves congratulation; he had just stolen her either as a hostage or simply to terrorize his family. It may have been impulsive, but so was killing Mike, for example. That's the point; Walt has these evil impulses. A normal person would not think to snatch the baby.
Walt's transformation has been like this for a while. Two steps forward and one step back... repeat. It feels wrong to jump to conclusions when he takes a step back.
Except with the way he treated Jesse, there was no step back. No hesitation, no flinching. Walt had already reacted to the betrayal; this went beyond that. Everything he did in that scene was predatory and evil. It felt like a significant push.
This episode could not have been the finale in a way that would have been narratively satisfying. This was the Supreme Ordeal of Joseph Campbell's monomyth, what John Truby calls the Apparent Defeat. It's not a climax, it's not a resolution, it's a step on the path to those points, a symbolic death that leads to the protagonist's inevitable resurrection, now imbued with the wisdom to fulfill his true purpose.
A lot has been made of Gilligan's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" trajectory, but I would say that part of the arc has already been completed. Gilligan has no interest in taking the character to Scarface level and leaving him there, he's looking to take the character there and then force him to figure out how to get back. Walt is on the road to redemption, the only question is what specific form that takes, and what the ultimate cost to his soul proves to be.
I think what he did to Jesse is the most hideous act he has committed so far, yes, in his mind he blames him for Hank's demise but to give him up like that and then hearing how he would be tortured to see how much he spilled, that was just cruel, and he added the stinking cherry on the pile of shit by telling him about Jane.
all the above hit me harder and by far than Hank's death.
still, part of me wishes the M60 is to save Jesse but realistically it doesn't seem like it. question is, can he grow a conscience and do it? or the M60 is to fight the Nazis and maybe along the way he can save him, but there is no way he can kill them all by himself.
anyway, can't wait to see what is his master plan to end everyone and everything.
only two left :yabbse-sad:
Quote from: polkablues on September 16, 2013, 06:59:04 PMA lot has been made of Gilligan's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" trajectory, but I would say that part of the arc has already been completed. Gilligan has no interest in taking the character to Scarface level and leaving him there, he's looking to take the character there and then force him to figure out how to get back. Walt is on the road to redemption...
I'm skeptical, perhaps because I don't want it to be true. Could they really execute that in a satisfying way? If they can, I guess I'm open to it, but that's a tall order with two episodes left. It's just not ringing true to me right now.
I can see something like this happening: Walt takes revenge on the Nazis, accidentally freeing Jesse, which inspires a flash of humanity. Something fleeting but meaningful. But "redemption"? That would be an odd choice.
And a "road to redemption" of any kind seems too cheesy for this show. I don't think the writers are interested in that. They are interested in leaving wreckage. They're interested in illustrating how catastrophic Walt's original decision was to "break bad." They might even be interested in punishing Walt further. I guess we'll see.
Mostly, I hope it stays dark. This is no time to pull back.
im sure someone else might have thought about this already: but the pants during the 'dung beetle' sequence are the two trunkless legs of stone, from the poem.
Quote from: polkablues on September 16, 2013, 06:59:04 PM
A lot has been made of Gilligan's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" trajectory, but I would say that part of the arc has already been completed. Gilligan has no interest in taking the character to Scarface level and leaving him there, he's looking to take the character there and then force him to figure out how to get back. Walt is on the road to redemption, the only question is what specific form that takes, and what the ultimate cost to his soul proves to be.
I think we may still get the "full Scarface" moment with the M60 and whoever he's using it against. His inner-Heisenberg was definitely awakened this Season in the Jesse/Jane moment. But I also believe they're going to offer Walt another "victory" facing off against a worse evil Madrigal/Nazis/Lydia, etc. But at the end of the day he'll still have to sacrifice himself to make it happen. Remember Gilligan saying he saw the end as "some kind of victory for Walt."
Quote from: ono on September 16, 2013, 04:01:29 PM
The cold open was the last scene ever filmed.
Yeah, unless they cgi'd the fuck out of Cranston's beard and hair.
Quote from: Christian on September 16, 2013, 09:30:06 PM
Quote from: ono on September 16, 2013, 04:01:29 PM
The cold open was the last scene ever filmed.
Yeah, unless they cgi'd the fuck out of Cranston's beard and hair.
Executive Producer David Fincher.
I think mod is right. I don't like it, but it seems like Walt must die. After all, an important element to both Scarface films is that the protagonist goes down with guns blasting because of what he started and what he became. I think that Walt's fate will be the same. There is no Redemption in the traditional sense, because he's wrecked too many lives. At this point we just want those who are in the war path of his Heisenburg's craziness
Regarding what Polkablues said, I don't think there is a way back for Walt, he's passed the point of no return, and that was Hank's death. I think this is the ultimate frustration that he has with Jesse, He can't cover that up, he has to answer to Marie, not to mention the fact that Jesse got involved with Walt's family, which endangers them, blah blah. I don't think Walt's resentment comes from the fact that he's a "rat," as so many people are quick call him. So, i don't really see that as the arc. Walt must right what he has wronged, which means his redemption will prove him to be a family man. Which is the, "some kind of victory," he will receive.
At first I didn't think I was going to like the episode because it felt kinda jumpy. But with that said, I loved it, it had some of the best and most defining moments in the show. I actually thought for a second, "oh my god, is someone going to die during this knife struggle and me not like this show any more?" But, it was still intense.
hank's death was damn cold, and it got to me. I can't believe how he barely even looked at Walt. Wow. That whole scene had me on edge. Even though I knew deep down he had to die. I don't really understand the arguments against how the show played his death. To me, that was one of the most brilliant endings of all time. The dramatic part was them opening fire with Walt screaming, " NOOOOO!" I mean DO WE NEED to spell it out for you folks what happens when two guys are outnumbered and outgunned?
I also can't wait to see what Jesse's plan is going to be. Maybe he blows him and Todd up, like the cold open in the RV with the Cigarette suggests, or maybe as others have suggested he poisons them. Either way, this might be the greatest television experience of my life.
Pubrick, I think you're onto something there. That's some spot on shit right there. Also, on the side note, shame on me for thinking those pants were just some old meaningless desert trash.
Walt will die in the final episode. That's a stone-cold lock. He's gone too far and destroyed too many lives and hurt the people he loves too much. The only satisfying conclusion, to the audience or the character, is for him to make the ultimate sacrifice. His ego and his selfishness drove him to where he is now, and any measure of redemption will require the selfless act of sacrificing his life in the service of others. There is no victory left for Walt in life, only in death.
http://www.hypable.com/2013/09/16/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-breaking-bad-reaction/ (http://www.hypable.com/2013/09/16/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-breaking-bad-reaction/)
George R.R. Martin says 'Breaking Bad' has inspired him to create a more evil character
A Song of Ice and Fire series creator George R.R. Martin took to his blog on Monday to profess his love for the latest Breaking Bad episode.
The author, whose series was adapted for television by HBO and is known by viewers as Game of Thrones, wasn't afraid to talk about his appreciation for the AMC meth drama.
"Amazing series. Amazing episode last night. Talk about a gut punch," he said.
Breaking Bad appears to have inspired him to create a character as evil as Walt. "Walter White is a bigger monster than anyone in Westeros. (I need to do something about that)," he wrote.
Being the tease that he is (Come on George, where's the next book?!), he also compared the two shows in terms of their Emmy chances. "This is the final season of BREAKING BAD. I think GAME OF THRONES may have a shot at upsetting BB for this year's Emmy (only a shot, though, I think they are the clear favorite), which pits us against their previous season... but there's no way in hell that anyone is going to defeat BREAKING BAD next year, when their last season is the one in contention," he wrote.
He makes a valid point, but last year's eight episodes of Breaking Bad were certainly a high point for the series. On the other hand, they can't compare to the final eight episodes of season 5.
Following last night's shocking episode, there's been some debate over whether Game of Thrones' "Red Wedding" episode is on par with Breaking Bad's "Ozymandias." What say you, viewers of both?
One thing I really liked and took away from this episode along with everything everyone is mentioning, I love how we saw every single version of Walter White in this episode. From the flashback, early Walt - to the Heisenberg moment of telling Jess about Jane, the father Walt losing his family, to kinda seeing the death of Walter (my opinion) as he fell to the ground after Hank's death. It was interesting to see them all in the span of that one episode, might be a reach but just something I took away.
"Walter White is a bigger monster than anyone in Westeros."
I still feel that it's easy to call someone a "monster". Walt is a bastard; what he's done is awful and selfish. But this season, we see him struggling. "I can't kill Hank. Let's do an awful videotape threatening him!I can't kill Jesse. Oh, well, he's not family...Oh, I can't kill Hank. Ok, it's over now. Don't kill Hank, take my money! WE'RE A FAMILY! Ok, Holly, come on, you're the only thing I have. Oh, I'm done for my family and even for Holly. I have to leave them."
It's not just him being a monster, it's having a line, crossing it, until everything melts in ONE barrel. When he called Skyler and gave Holly back, it was him not being selfish for the first time since...Ever? Yes, he had no choice. But he realized they were better without him.
And, for me, when he calls Skyler, in a way he says: "I was wrong, I fucked up. I love you." ; it's maybe the last time he speaks to her. Why would he let his emotions through the ploy? It's devastating enough to see him expressing humanity with his tears, his face, while calling his wife a bitch.
About the end being a victory for Walt, I think he'll die but he'll manage to offer a life for his family, saving them. He wanted to give them money, but he created a danger. Now he has to eliminate everything he has done. And himself.
Quote from: Drenka on September 17, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
"Walter White is a bigger monster than anyone in Westeros."
I still feel that it's easy to call someone a "monster". Walt is a bastard; what he's done is awful and selfish. But this season, we see him struggling. "I can't kill Hank. Let's do an awful videotape threatening him!I can't kill Jesse. Oh, well, he's not family...Oh, I can't kill Hank. Ok, it's over now. Don't kill Hank, take my money! WE'RE A FAMILY! Ok, Holly, come on, you're the only thing I have. Oh, I'm done for my family and even for Holly. I have to leave them."
It's not just him being a monster, it's having a line, crossing it, until everything melts in ONE barrel. When he called Skyler and gave Holly back, it was him not being selfish for the first time since...Ever? Yes, he had no choice. But he realized they were better without him.
And, for me, when he calls Skyler, in a way he says: "I was wrong, I fucked up. I love you." ; it's maybe the last time he speaks to her. Why would he let his emotions through the ploy? It's devastating enough to see him expressing humanity with his tears, his face, while calling his wife a bitch.
About the end being a victory for Walt, I think he'll die but he'll manage to offer a life for his family, saving them. He wanted to give them money, but he created a danger. Now he has to eliminate everything he has done. And himself.
well, it's a figure of speech. what you describe and what we see of walter white is the behavior of a sociopath/psychopath (this ambivalence in his actions and position towards the world around him makes him scarier in my view), which in many ways is the modern day term for monster. just like tony soprano was a monster. he was struggling too.
SPOILERS SOPRANOS
Tony Soprano isn't struggling; he thinks he's a good guy because he has some emotions. When he kills Christopher, he tries to find excuses for Carmela to be relieved of his death with him! With the destroyed baby seat in the car. He wants redemption at the beginning of season 6, but it doesn't last. Walt is a sociopath because, when he's saying to Skyler "I'm the danger!" he wants to believe it.Bbut he's not the danger. In 406 he is in danger. He's lucky at the end. He's not the danger or Jesse James. He's doing awful things in order to become THE MAN. And he doesn't become "THE MAN"! But he's done these things. He didn't even become a complete monster; that's why calling him a monster is too easy. Selfish bastard is my favorite. He's not Heinseinberg, he's not "Walt" : we'll see what name Saul's guy gives him.
As one of the lawyer in the Good Wife would ask me to add: "It's my opinion."
Quote from: Brando on September 17, 2013, 10:46:44 AM
http://www.hypable.com/2013/09/16/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-breaking-bad-reaction/ (http://www.hypable.com/2013/09/16/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-breaking-bad-reaction/)
George R.R. Martin says 'Breaking Bad' has inspired him to create a more evil character
"Walter White is a bigger monster than anyone in Westeros. (I need to do something about that)."
He wishes he could do something about that. It took Breaking Bad 5 seasons of focusing almost entirely on Walt to get his character to where he's at right now. If he were a character on GoT we'd get one scene with him a week and still be waiting for him to make his first million.
The podcast is frustrating sometimes. I still love it and I think Kelly does a commendable job but she talks too damn much. Even when she says "I'm going to shut up and let you guys talk about X" she never does. They spend too much time on the minutia of production and complementing one another and not enough time evaluating the episode and what happens in the writer's room.
Quote from: ©brad on September 17, 2013, 10:58:17 PM
The podcast is frustrating sometimes. I still love it and I think Kelly does a commendable job but she talks too damn much. Even when she says "I'm going to shut up and let you guys talk about X" she never does. They spend too much time on the minutia of production and complementing one another and not enough time evaluating the episode and what happens in the writer's room.
It's fine with me personally. I would like to hear more, but at the same time I feel like I shouldn't... I don't want them to explain the meaning of everything. And I think their writing process has been described sufficiently.
According to Peter Gould's twitter feed, last two episodes are 75 minutes each including commercials!
Quote from: ©brad on September 18, 2013, 06:20:48 PM
According to Peter Gould's twitter feed, last two episodes are 75 minutes each including commercials!
My body is ready.
Yes.
http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/breaking-bad-final-episodes-longer.html?mid=twitter_vulture (http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/breaking-bad-final-episodes-longer.html?mid=twitter_vulture)
Remembering Hank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkFs90jJfOg
:yabbse-sad:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.org%2Fvtlufq6m5%2Fbreaking.jpg&hash=f4791d08f34475d1dd96d926fe851a5e6da1d350)
HAHA OWNED.
I like how Dean Norris is even more belligerent than Hank Schraeder.
Quote from: Fernando on September 20, 2013, 11:02:49 AM
Remembering Hank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkFs90jJfOg
:yabbse-sad:
Amazing! :yabbse-cry:
Quote from: Fernando on September 20, 2013, 11:02:49 AM
Remembering Hank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkFs90jJfOg
:yabbse-sad:
For fuck's sake, Zimmer's Time is going to become the next Lux Aeterna. At least I hope not.
The Scene lives and probably will be discussed long after show is over.
'Breaking Bad's Infamous Phone Call Becomes a Referendum on the Show and Its Audience
via Criticwire by Sam Adams
It was clear five minutes after Breaking Bad's "Ozymandias" finished airing on Sunday night that Walter White's now-infamous phone call would dominate the day-after discussion. But the best part of a week later, we're still talking about it, and the call, and the reactions to it, have spawned a host of long-form reactions: the overnight reviewing equivalent of a spinoff show.
Although it took some viewers (including this one) a while to catch on, most everyone agrees that Walt's call to Skyler was intended for the police he knew would be listening, that in casting her as a terrified woman under the thumb of a homicidally violent drug kingpin, he was trying to exonerate her, to absorb her crimes into his own. The question was whether he might also have meant it, or at least some of it. When he accused Skyler of holding him back, of never being grateful for his actions, when he mocked her moral misgivings and called her a bitch, was that all just for show -- the greatest lie in a long string of them? Or was there truth mixed in as well? Walt's eyes flood with tears at the end of the call, but before that his voice is cold and rough, evoking the onrushing rage we've heard once before in his final confrontation with his ex-girlfriend Gretchen.
Not even Moira Walley-Beckett, who wrote the episode, could seem to agree on the call's true meaning. She told Vulture, "I personally feel like it wasn't open to interpretation. I would hope that people got that it was an absolute ploy on Walt's part." But in an interview with Entertainment Weekly, she said:
What was fascinating about writing that scene was that the vestiges of Walter White had to play Heisenberg who's a very real part of him and not the other way around. He had to identify the monstrous qualities of himself in order to effect the lie and protect his family.... I don't think that anybody -- or certainly not Walter White -- can just be one thing so there will be vestiges and there will be conflicts within.
As the week went on, critics began to see the reaction to the call as a referendum not just on Walter White, but on the people who watch him -- that is, Breaking Bad's audience. Matt Zoller Seitz wrote:
The controversy over Walt's phone call is really about the relationship between viewers and television. It's about the discomfort that ensues when an episode or scene or moment forces us to take a hard look at why we watch a show, what we truly get out of it, and what that says about us.... [W]hat makes sense is the notion that Walter, like me, like you, like everybody, is complicated, and does things on purpose and on instinct, and on purpose while acting on instinct, and by accident, and in response to demons even he doesn't understand; and Walter, like you, like me, like everyone, can be more than one thing at the same time, just as a great work of popular art can be more than one thing at the same time, many of them in seeming contradiction. Multitudes, multitudes.
The New Yorker's Emily Nussbaum tied the reaction to the phenomenon of what she called the "Bad Fan" -- that is, people who watch Breaking Bad to get off on the fantasy of Walter White as an all-powerful drug lord and resent it when Skyler or anyone else gets in his way. It was the unmissably ugly embodiment of the way the Bad Fan views Walter White, the emotional endgame for a man who believes only in himself. But it also, she went on, undermined those who see Walt as purely evil, a calculating monster. Whatever his motivations -- and they are many, and contradictory -- Walt threw himself under the bus to give Skyler a way out, and further implicated himself in Hank's murder to give Marie closure.
The New Yorker's Emily Nussbaum tied the reaction to the phenomenon of what she called the "Bad Fan" -- that is, people who watch Breaking Bad to get off on the fantasy of Walter White as an all-powerful drug lord and resent it when Skyler or anyone else gets in his way. It was the unmissably ugly embodiment of the way the Bad Fan views Walter White, the emotional endgame for a man who believes only in himself. But it also, she went on, undermined those who see Walt as purely evil, a calculating monster. Whatever his motivations -- and they are many, and contradictory -- Walt threw himself under the bus to give Skyler a way out, and further implicated himself in Hank's murder to give Marie closure.
Then there's the point of view that Walt's intentions don't matter, that simply chalking the call up as an altruistic ploy neglects the truth of his words. Whether he means it, whether he realizes it or not, Walt has crushed Skyler down; he has broken his family to bits. In the Huffintgon post, Maureen Ryan wrote:
What struck me most forcefully about that scene was the ugly yet truthful nature of Walt's words. As for his intentions, well, Walt's most consistent excuse is that he never intended any of this to happen. So what? All these things did happen, he is largely responsible for them, and I don't see nobility in trying to walk back one of his many enormous mistakes.[i/]
And then there's NPR's Linda Holmes, for whom the whole debate misses the point, since the consequences of Walt's actions are what matters.
It's not that the show is a crock, and it's not that the sophisticated considerations of fault and the human heart are a crock. It's that trying to locate the humanity inside a man who has killed and harmed and terrorized, all with the underlying goal of making a lot of money and avoiding consequences, is a fool's errand. Not because Walt is evil or isn't evil, but because it doesn't matter.
It's not that the show is a crock, and it's not that the sophisticated considerations of fault and the human heart are a crock. It's that trying to locate the humanity inside a man who has killed and harmed and terrorized, all with the underlying goal of making a lot of money and avoiding consequences, is a fool's errand. Not because Walt is evil or isn't evil, but because it doesn't matter.
My crazy final predix before the last two episodes:
- Skyler & Walt die (Skyler tonight, Walt next week)
- Walt/Jesse showdown (final episode)
- Jesse lives (the hero)
- Marie lives (takes the kids)
Marie talking poison with her shrink can't be a loose end. Much as I hate to say it, it's gotta play somehow. I don't think she's long for this world.
Quote from: modage on September 22, 2013, 07:05:05 PM
My crazy final predix before the last two episodes:
- Skyler & Walt die (Skyler tonight, Walt next week)
- Walt/Jesse showdown (final episode)
- Jesse lives (the hero)
- Marie lives (takes the kids)
I can get behind this. Lots of people elsewhere are predicting Jesse dies tonight but that CANNOT HAPPEN.
Now that was a badass ending. Brilliant.
What's bizarre is that while the previous episode indicated that the show was rapidly approaching the end, this episode felt like that there could be at least half a season or something until it finished. That is until the perfect, utterly brilliant closing minutes of the episode- because now it totally seems Walt is going to end everything.
Man, I wanna see some dead nazis.
The ricin candidates? Gretchen and Elliott. They sullied the last first good thing Walt did. The wages for that are death.
still mulling. things i know for sure:
- robert forester is the man.
- that last shot of cranston gave me fucking chills.
- the phone call was WRENCHING, entirely to the credit of cranston's performance. it's a dramatic beat we've seen one billion times, and i just about lost it.
- i have exactly no idea how what's going to go down is going to go down, and i love that. there's only one 75-minute block of breaking bad left and i'm just gonna let it take me raw, balls deep. going to commence forgetting that next week's episode is the finale until the last possible second so as not to give myself a stroke.
what a goddamn final season.
oh, and
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fl7ZyAMc.png&hash=637cbdd25d56c407b63765a13d7d2b1bfe7f0110)
Quote from: ono on September 22, 2013, 11:41:56 PM
The ricin candidates? Gretchen and Elliott. They sullied the last first good thing Walt did. The wages for that are death.
Yeah, fuck those guys.
That was a cool way to do the Charlie Rose thing.
My stupid thoughts:
- ANDREA, NOOOO!!! (I hate Todd so goddamn much)
- Man, the writers really love to torture Jesse.
- Last minute gave me the chills.
- Elliot and Gretchen are douchebags.
- The principal at Flint's school is fine as fuck.
- I have no fucking idea how this is going to end.
Walt lost his money, lost his family, lost his best friend and now has even lost his brand. Only thing he has now it's his name. Put your sit belts on cuz next week will be fucking insane. Don't know how they'll be able to sow it all up in 1 hour and 15 minutes though.
That final sequence. That phone call, the bar, Charlie fucking Rose. UGH SO MANY FEELINGS.
I am having a problem buying these Nazi's. Maybe we're just spoiled by Gus Fring but as Breaking Bad villains they're so one-dimensional. And the main dude just bends over backwards and listens to everything his 22 year old nephew says?
That being said, after that horrific scene when Jesse is forced to watch you know what, I don't care what happens as long as Walt fucks them up good.
I don't understand how the Emmy's work nor have I ever really cared but I think a lot of folks are upset with Jeff Daniels.
Quote from: ©brad on September 23, 2013, 12:28:18 AM
I am having a problem buying these Nazi's. Maybe we're just spoiled by Gus Fring but as Breaking Bad villains they're so one-dimensional. And the main dude just bends over backwards and listens to everything his 22 year old nephew says?
I completely agree with ©brad. "Walt fucking up some Nazi's" sounds fun and shit, but really who cares? Who cares about those Nazi's, they're very insignificant as far as the scope of the show is concerned for them to be a meaningful piece of the last episode, unless (which this is most likely the case) Walt needs to get rid of them in order to get to Jesse/money. The "getting rid of the Nazi's" part isn't the crucial storyline here. So it'll be interesting what they do other than that.
I keep imagining this is gonna end Peckinpah style. Not really likely, but it's fun to imagine.
I really, really love this season but the emergence of the Nazis was kinda bizarre. That's what kinda leads me back to it feeling like there's a few episodes (a season?) left because there needs to be a teensy bit more development from all sides. Like Walt wallowing and preparing, nazis being nazis, Lydia enjoying her business ventures, Todd being a fucking creep, Jesse being an utterly demoralised and suicidal wreck/meth slave, Skyler facing all these legal problems, Marie coping with Hank's death, Flynn doing...something etc
But as I said, those final moments really kinda get me hyped up for an ending. Not to mention that this show thrives on unexpected developments.
Ugh, what an episode. And the extended running length was so great... I felt completely spoiled.
As soon as Robert Forster appeared on screen I said "Robert Forster!?!" out loud. So that was distracting for a few minutes, but I eventually accepted it. He was great. (Did anyone see him in Alcatraz? What a criminally wasted TV role that was for him, by contrast.)
Once again, the episode was surprising while still being true to the characters and not too crazy. I just deleted my prediction post out of shame. Shouldn't even try at this point. Except that it seems clearer than ever that Jesse will survive the series, and I don't think they need to sacrifice any more lambs, as it were. (Andrea sufficed.) Marie and Junior are obviously going to survive. I predicted that Skyler wouldn't be in danger, but I didn't put two and two together about her having seen Lydia.
Whether Skyler lives or dies depends on how much the writers want to punish Walt, which is still uncertain. Maybe this is why the "kill some Nazis" plot is throwing up red flags for ©brad and others; we know that can't be it. Something else, something big has to be in the mix. This show has been so full of surprises, they have to surprise us with the final episode.
If they really wanted to punish him, they'd do this: Walt kills him some Nazis, freeing Jesse, which means Lydia's deal with Todd is off, which means Lydia wants Skyler dead for sure. (But maybe that's a bit convoluted for BB.)
Whatever happens, I hope it's something that completes Walter White's arc in a satisfying way. He has now lost pretty much everything. Doesn't it seem like he's going full Heisenberg now? He doesn't look inspired by heroism or altruism. This is about him. He wants to restore his dignity, his pride, his legacy. I mean really, that last scene where he's moved to action is scored the show's theme song. The final episode of Breaking Bad needs to be about breaking bad.
I agree that Gretchen and Elliott are prime candidates for the ricin. And the Nazis still seem the obvious target of his M60. But interestingly, his motive will be the same. He needs to get his dignity back from both parties. If Walt kills the Nazis, I really don't think it will be about getting that money to his family (not happening) or protecting Jesse or anything like that. And this goes to the core of Breaking Bad...
Walt, having lost his family, has gained profound clarity about who he is and what actually drives him. You can see it in his eyes. It's not his family. It's about him, it's about making something of himself, and — as we've learned, seeing him seething under his various masters — it's about self-determination. "Live free or die."
I loved it, of course; but I'm wondering what the episode could have been if we had five more episodes. If it were a "real" season of Breaking Bad. It would have been weird. Walter White, alone, talking to his money. "Dollars, please, play cards with me..." and calling his barrel "Jesse" or something.
Anyway. What a great ending, and I don't even know what he wants to do. I see the rage. I guess he'll try to save his image, the Heinseinberg myth is strong and popular but he's only a murderer and a meth-lord, if he becomes the "good" meth-lord who "protects his family"for them...Some viewers still think that Walt is a hero, because they don't pay attention to all the details, so it would be easy for Walt can change the myth of Heinseinberg and fade into a better light for the world.
But what if he doesn't try to look like a hero? What if he just want to be the myth, now? Killing nazis and all. I don't know.
Maybe I'm seeing more than there is. Last scene:
- Charlie start talking about "continuous reports of signature product..."
- It cuts to Walt's face
- "... reaching Europe ..." and expression on his face changes exactly in this moment, almost as he was shocked by it.
Did he connected it somehow and knows Jessie is alive?
I could be wrong and this was just reaction to denial from Gretchen and Elliott.
You're not seeing more; he's angry that the nazis are taking his "legacy" and that Elliot says that he did nothing for the company. Two empires.
Quote from: modage on September 22, 2013, 07:05:05 PM
- Skyler & Walt die (Skyler tonight, Walt next week)
- Walt/Jesse showdown (final episode)
- Jesse lives (the hero)
- Marie lives (takes the kids)
Still doubling down on these predictions for the finale though man, when Todd & co. were in Holly's room I thought for sure that it was the end for Skyler. (The more I thought about the phone call between Walt/Skyler from the week before, the more it seemed to be a goodbye call without either of them realizing it, mirroring the Hank/Marie call from the week before). Then thought they might go back at the end of the episode instead (especially post-Lydia conversation) but I guess Andrea's sacrifice would suffice. It also seems that Skyler MUST die because up until this point Jesse has suffered far, far worse than Walt and that just doesn't seem right. Even if/when Walt dies alone, I'm not sure if enough has been taken from him in the meantime.
Crazy to see some people suggesting this episode was "slow." Just shows how frantic these final 8 have been that an episode where this much shit happens could be considered slow.
I already said this on Twitter (and maybe on here?) but I can't help but play devil's advocate and wonder if the show would've been better or worse with a few more episodes. Much of the thrill of these last 8 come from the rush of everything coming down so quickly and if they had another 2 eps or so to fill out, that wouldn't be the case. But because we just don't have time to pause, I can't help but feel like we're losing things that might've been interesting along the way. Both Jesse's confession tape and Walt Jr. finding out about Walt happen offscreen. Hank's death was squeezed into the first 10 minutes of an episode where 100 other crazier things seemed to happen (which was a shame for a character so important to the show). And even Walt's banishment and return was compressed into 1 episode. Now I understand that the writers are working within limitations and probably
doing the absolute best possible job with the time that they have. BUT I have to wonder each time we skip past something so major to race to the next thing if the ending might've been better somehow if they had say, 10 episodes instead of 8. Might we have gotten an entire "Fly" like episode of Walt in the cabin? More time to see Marie grieve, Skyler and family living elsewhere, the house being boarded up, etc. Now none of these things are crucial to the plot, but in many cases they're things that we've waited 5 seasons to see and it's a shame for the writers not to get the opportunity to wring every last bit of drama out of these situations. Instead, we have a scene with Todd & Lydia, two relatively minor characters in the grand scheme of things who have been shouldering a lot of responsibility in the final stretch. But of course, that scene is crucial to move the plot and the others are just character beats. Not that we'll ever know what the other way would've been like, and I am loving the final episodes, but I do wonder about an alternate history where AMC gave them 10 eps instead of 8. Or maybe just expanded the entire back half to 75 minutes each. (Imagine what might've been lost from this episode had they squeezed it into 60! Impossible right? Weird that the announcement of running time wasn't until last week because it seems like that would've had to have been a decision made a long time ago.)
Going down another no-win what-if scenario, I wonder if it would've been more or less satisfying to not know where things were headed? (Had they not done the 2 flash-forwards, would there have been more or less suspense in seeing the way things have played out?)
Is Robert Forster possibly reprising his character in Jackie Brown? I know it's not the same "job" but I got a weird case of deja vu.
File that Andrea scene under shit I never want to see again. When I watch the episode again tonight I'm fast-forwarding through that part. As much as I want Jesse to live, maybe dying would be the best thing for him. I don't know how he could go on living at this point with everything he's seen and done.
Mod you make some good points but what I love about these last 8 episodes is the breakneck speed. There's not an ounce of fat on them as there have been in seasons prior. Rewatch the first half of season 4 and you'll be amazed at how slow it is (and not necessarily in a bad way). I feel they're hitting the sweet spot here - not too long, not too short. As much as I love this show, I'm almost relieved it's ending. These episodes are so relentless and agonizing, I can't take much more!
Quote from: modage on September 23, 2013, 10:15:56 AMGoing down another no-win what-if scenario, I wonder if it would've been more or less satisfying to not know where things were headed? (Had they not done the 2 flash-forwards, would there have been more or less suspense in seeing the way things have played out?)
I've thought a lot about that and I believe the flash-forwards add suspense and were ultimately a smart move. The holy-fuckness of those cold opens were some of the best moments of the series, and add an underlying suspense as you try and connect the dots as the season progresses. I believe they reaped more dramatic rewards from flash-forwarding vs not teasing us with the future and just letting us get there eventually.
ricin for gretchen and elliot? wtf?
this is another case where something that is clearly intended by the writers somehow seems to be hard to understand for some viewers.
- the charlie rose interview was mostly to let walter know that Jesse is still alive and cooking for the nazis. he knows that they needed a pro to cook for them in order to keep the product viable in the overseas market, this was explained to him by lydia and by the nazis already. so seeing that jesse is still alive gives him more reason to come back to "finish the job" once and for all.
- there is NO WAY that the ricin is suddenly for gretchen and elliot, whom we haven't even heard of all season. i don't know how anyone can instantly make that jump. that would be really really dumb. talk about "insignificant" story arcs.. jeez. are you guys stealing this from some spoilerful promo again?? it is just completely bizarre that people would think this. the show would jump the shark if those two featured in the story again.
- lets stick to that scene in the bar since people are having problems with it. note that it follows from a total dissolution of walt's dreams of family reconciliation. the phone call to Flynn was a reiteration of the family breakdown shown in the previous episode where walt jr called the cops on him. this, however, was more focused on walt's legacy... if he was not going to be able to be a parent he still wanted to be a good provider. it is a huge insult to Flynn that his dad would think he'd forgive and forget the killing of his uncle simply because a bit of money was coming his way. all Flynn ever needed was a loving father, not a million bucks. i'll get back to this later.
- his "legacy" for his family, that is, the meaning of his life's work, now amounts to a few million bucks.. the 100 grand being a symbolic gesture to begin with. he deployed a rather tricky plot to get the money to his kids.. but look at how he did it. even in the moment of reaching out to Flynn he manipulated the kids emotions by invoking Marie. for a long time now walt has only been able to see things through the prism of money. and in this episode he shows his commitment to it by providing it as a main motivation for coming back to get the nazis. oh and they killed hank, but they also robbed him!
- all of walt's interactions are just about money, in that bunker scene that Saul saw through the camera it's no joke that he could easily have been talking to his barrel in a hilariously sad Wilson-esque scenario. his friendships are also based on it, where he paid robert forster 10k just to be his friend for an hour.
- so then the charlie rose interview shows his other legacy. the legacy of all that he amounted to BEFORE he embarked on the path to heisenberg. the gretchen and elliot interview were just adding insult to injury, as well as imparting very pertinent information about the current state of his meth legacy. it also recalled the first slight he received to his ego and the reason his career had never taken off the way he intended in the first place. it basically spelled out that the world has not only gone on without him but has warped his image into a worthless ghost of the greatness he always perceived (and proved) himself to be.
as the show approaches its end i have been reflecting on what kind of ending would satisfy me, the ending that would stay true to what the show has been about. which brings me to reflect on just that, what breaking bad means to me:
the image that stuck with me in the last couple of episodes is walt and his barrel. the sisyphean image of him rolling his barrel of money everywhere, all the way from the desert to his bunker, to his remote snow-covered hideaway, it really solidified the idea in my mind that he has had his eye on the wrong prize for far too long.
he claims repeatedly to have done it all for his family, but as we have conclusively observed a lot of his actions have been driven by greed and ego. that he can warp these underlying motivations to fit in with his ostensible reasoning has been one of the major flaws in his character (and i will soon argue the entire breaking bad world) from the beginning.
it seems to me that from the very beginning of the show the deeply embedded question that we all should keep asking ourselves was is it ok for a hard-on-his-luck teacher to sell a bit of meth to make some money for his family. how much is enough? remember that his goal was 700 thousand dollars or whatever, and that he kept going because why not. this is not so long ago in the story that it doesn't have repercussions even now. look at the scene with uncle jack and todd in tonight's episode, it's like the nazi had finally decided to stop when the murderous fiend basically whispered the insidious words that changed his heart completely.
i love the idea that walter white/heisenberg are dead in the eyes of his friends, family and enemies. gretchen in the interview expressing a rather pointed analysis of the arc most people are happy to accept. the transition has gone beyond those dualities and into something mythical. what we'll see in the last episode is not the return of heisenberg, but as polky has said a purely satisfying revenge plot driven by the walking husk of Mr Lambert. he's out to destroy heisenberg, who as the brand name behind the meth and the evildoer behind the crimes being attributed wholly to walt is now a completely separate external figure to himself. Lambert's function is to clean up the mess like a vengeful angel of death.
is it still driven by ego and greed? possibly. but i don't think there is a walt/heisenberg on which we can attach the ego or the goal of attaining more riches. the dude we see in the flash forward, the dude of the last episode, is a dude who has lived through greatness and seen it all burn away, it's a dude who has rebuilt himself from whatever vestige of humanity remains in him. that bit of humanity is unfortunately the ugly side, the side he gave into when he decided to "break bad".
the flaw in the character and in the world that i referred to earlier is simply the inherent corruption of good intentions through the pursuit of excessive wealth. his wife did not need to be a millionaire, she just wanted a husband who would be happy with what he had. flynn wanted a father he could eat breakfast with on a regular basis. look at the last glimpse of familial happiness we were given this season, in the flashback at the start of ozymandias where all of walt's dreams disappear with the wind in the desert. but what was he to do given his initial situation? he had to make a buck, for his own self respect and to bestow some of that prestige to his family.
we are given reason to sympathize with his desire for what is owed to him when we see the way that Gray Matter Technologies did a number on him. they took his work and ran with it, in a way similar to what the nazis/jesse are doing now at the end of the story. the fact is both of these situations are fair play "in the game", as anyone familiar with The Wire would know it's all in the game.. you get hustled well that's just a natural consequence.
it's this natural consequence that i am interested in. the path walt took was obviously guided by his own intellect, a LOT of luck, and also quite fundamentally through an increasingly tantalizing lure of opportunity that opened up to him merely by following the american dream. that is the backdrop of the story which i think is not just incidental. the basic assumption that wealth is an ends unto itself, a way to measure self worth, success and even love for his own family, that is the real cancer that ultimately spread and devoured our beloved walt and his world.
how will it end. well, chasing the nazis for his money is fine on one dimension, but that barrel will simply roll back down over him and leave him worse than when he started. i think the plan he had in mind before he went into the bar was different to the one he left with after the two legacy-ego deaths he experienced there. i am not concerned with conventional justice. if they wipe out his entire family i would be more than satisfied that he has received the worst punishment imaginable, one worse than the torture jesse has been through. then and only then can he leave the scene, and i think he knows this.
Excellent thoughts p. Unintentional prediction award goes to me for the max cherry thing. Weird.
Quote from: ©brad on September 23, 2013, 12:28:18 AM
And the main dude just bends over backwards and listens to everything his 22 year old nephew says?
This one's easy. Uncle Jack is TERRIFIED of Todd. Todd is the single scariest character this show has ever featured, more than Tuco, the cousins, and Gus Fring combined. Todd is the kid from the Twilight Zone who blinks people into the cornfield. He is casual evil incarnate.
I'm honestly really worried about what he's going to do to Lydia when he makes his move and she rebuffs him.
I'm sure the podcast will be up on iTunes soon, but in the mean time I did some converting and created a podcast MP3:
http://xixax.com/files/S05E15podcast.mp3
Quote from: Christian on September 23, 2013, 11:23:21 AM
Is Robert Forster possibly reprising his character in Jackie Brown? I know it's not the same "job" but I got a weird case of deja vu.
Gilligan mentions on the podcast that he's a huuuge Jackie Brown fan and loved having him for that reason. Weird fact (according to a recap I can't remember which): Forster was an actual vacuum cleaner repairman.
P, I understand the bar scene being there to provide Walt's motivation but also think that the ricin could still be for them. It'd be super dark and twisted (darker than anything we've seen Walt do to date) but it would also make a little bit of sense. Walt's life trajectory spun in one direction due to two big decisions he made involving them: leaving the company and turning down their money. For them to minimize his contribution, it doesn't seem like he's just going to let that stand, will he? Maybe he won't kill them. But perhaps something face to face? Or sending a message? It might be a little too clean but big guns for Todd & crew, Ricin for the Gretchen & Elliott, then Walt out. He gets revenge on all those who slighted and doubted him and can go out in a blaze of glory.
Side thought: I might be a little disappointed if we don't see any other non-Lydia ties to Madrigal who seemed that they may play a greater role (giant sinister organization) before the big finale.
This (http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/lindelof-on-breaking-bad-heisenberg-is-batman.html) is great, too. (Damon Lindelof on Breaking Bad: How Heisenberg Is Like Batman)
I feel Lydia and her need for Stevia puts her to the front of the line as a Ricin candidate.
Quote from: modage on September 23, 2013, 01:25:27 PMIt might be a little too clean but big guns for Todd & crew, Ricin for the Gretchen & Elliott, then Walt out. He gets revenge on all those who slighted and doubted him and can go out in a blaze of glory.
I feel the ricin is too big of a Checkov's gun to use on Gretchen and Elliot, characters with such little presence and screen-time.
Quote from: bigperm on September 23, 2013, 01:58:37 PM
I feel Lydia and her need for Stevia puts her to the front of the line as a Ricin candidate.
Yeah, I think we have a winner. :yabbse-thumbup:
Quote from: modage on September 23, 2013, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: bigperm on September 23, 2013, 01:58:37 PM
I feel Lydia and her need for Stevia puts her to the front of the line as a Ricin candidate.
Yeah, I think we have a winner. :yabbse-thumbup:
Oh man that actually makes a lot of sense. They made such a moment of her wanting Stevia in Gliding Over It All, and Walt had planned to use the ricin in that scene, and now this episode with Todd and her Stevia demands...
So basically Walt kills everybody.
Quote from: Ghostboy on September 23, 2013, 09:42:36 PM
So basically Walt kills everybody.
.....And then he himself dies. Felina.
My prediction for the finale is that Todd kills every other character and then turns to the camera and says, "I'm sorry for your loss." Then it cuts to black.
you forgot the, "it's really nothing personal," part.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2Fbilly-mumy-in-good-life_zpsa02d233d.jpg&hash=138b61b8b9f7d5025ca7519033331b12048f270a)
Seriously, you guys, this is who Todd is.
Nice find for Opie Hitler, that's almost a full Nazi salute.
In case anyone missed it from the podcast, Vince Gilligan based the character of Todd on a nightmare he had in which Opie from the Andy Griffith Show murdered millions of jews.
how could Walt think that the phone call with Flynn would go well if he gave him money? why didn't he just apologize? im sure that would have gone better but no, he keeps trying to buy them back...
I also feel the machine gun isn't in Walt's wheelhouse. We've seen him be quite unsteady and uneven with a pistol, just makes me think how in the hell is he gonna wield this beast with any luck and precision.
Hopefully Jesse blows the lab sky high
Quote from: bigperm on September 24, 2013, 11:21:43 AM
Hopefully Jesse blows the lab sky high
Yeah I really hope Jesse gets his vengeance one way or another. He's suffered.
I hope Todd gets put down like some sort of dumb dog. Not with any particular malice because he does evil things but he doesn't actually understand that it's evil. He's challenged.
The whole cast of BB + Gilligan was on Conan last night. Fun times. Skinny Pete sat in with the band, too. (Apologies to the cast of Low Winter Sun.)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Frapgenius%2F1379922428_tumblr_mtkfpqh2Dj1qzwhb0o1_500.jpg&hash=3db7e229a0e9b8cff45909ac16df9f8fd03a0471)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Frapgenius%2F1379922428_tumblr_mtkf0bLTlM1rmequvo1_500.png&hash=219fd3f48e0c4c731593ebf975cab18e49233cc7)
Guys save yourself some time and go straight to www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad for all your original meme requirements.
Then I would have to go to Reddit, the most pain-in-the-ass site to navigate on the modern internet.
Quote from: polkablues on September 24, 2013, 08:35:28 PM
Then I would have to go to Reddit, the most pain-in-the-ass site to navigate on the modern internet.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.li%2Fi%2Fduo7o.jpg&hash=f3ebf34d3b74a39287ea825dbf3f82b6903dca49)
Another
unoriginal meme. yay. I'm fucking awesome.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-ec.buzzfed.com%2Fstatic%2Fenhanced%2Fweb05%2F2012%2F7%2F10%2F15%2Fenhanced-buzz-23905-1341948875-4.jpg&hash=5de0c32c9756552075db7f3231fdc09d7efbaa87)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi959.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae72%2Fdave3066%2Fbreaking-bad-meme62.jpg&hash=5926bca6a555535faeed83ba1ea0b417204d26c8)
Quote from: polkablues on September 24, 2013, 08:35:28 PM
Then I would have to go to Reddit, the most pain-in-the-ass site to navigate on the modern internet.
All you have to do is go to the link I provided and click the threads that interest you. The title will usually take you to a hilarious image or a discussion on the most minute detail on the show similar to what we have been doing here.
The only difference is you'll see the above jokes at least five days before they get regurgitated through facebook, then an email from your mother, until finally they end up here, at the end of the internet gastrointestinal system.
It's also worth noting that our two most original comic talents migrated there permanently (stefen and pas).
But if you prefer the incessant spamming going on above then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Too much clicking. Usually I have to click on something I'm interested in, then click AGAIN to get sent to whatever Imgur page or whatever the content is actually on. I'm not made of clicks. Especially when the ratio of gold to dross is so unfavorable.
Stefen and Pas are dead to me.
A preview from the breaking bad sequel. Everything's fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7YF8DAwjk
Quote from: polkablues on September 24, 2013, 10:31:09 PM
Too much clicking. Usually I have to click on something I'm interested in, then click AGAIN to get sent to whatever Imgur page or whatever the content is actually on. I'm not made of clicks. Especially when the ratio of gold to dross is so unfavorable.
Stefen and Pas are dead to me.
http://www.redditenhancementsuite.com One click, all images on a page are loaded. You can also inline-load any selected image in that page. So many other features, too.
Your next excuse, good sir?
Don't even bother. Polkblues has resigned himself to supporting Freddie. All hope is lost. He has jumped the shark.
Just like anyone who thinks Walt actually gives a shit about Gretchen and Elliot.
I know, right, who? Apparently killing them will be a satisfying conclusion though.. somehow. Even though no one, I mean absolutely no one, has given a shit about them in years.
The reason I think the ricin can't be for Lydia is it's too fucking obvious. Since last year in many of the scenes she's in, it's stuck out like a sore thumb that Lydia is particular about her beverages, her tea, her Stevia. It's heavy-handed, it's anvil-esque, it's way beneath the writers of BB to do THAT. P's right in saying that because we haven't cared about Gretchen and Elliott for ages it would be a bit of a curve ball, a bit loopy for them to be the ones the ricin was used for, but IMO it would be incredibly stupid, insulting, and obvious for Walt to use it on Lydia.
Quote from: ono on September 25, 2013, 11:28:29 AM
The reason I think the ricin can't be for Lydia is it's too fucking obvious. Since last year in many of the scenes she's in, it's stuck out like a sore thumb that Lydia is particular about her beverages, her tea, her Stevia. It's heavy-handed, it's anvil-esque, it's way beneath the writers of BB to do THAT. P's right in saying that because we haven't cared about Gretchen and Elliott for ages it would be a bit of a curve ball, a bit loopy for them to be the ones the ricin was used for, but IMO it would be incredibly stupid, insulting, and obvious for Walt to use it on Lydia.
I feel exactly the same way. We didn't even bother putting that theory forward because of how obvious and dull it is. Walt already almost ricined her; that would practically be insulting to the audience.
I'm completely open to Gretchen and Elliot coming back into the picture, ricin or no. They are part of his origin story. And this is his primary unfinished business. Watch Walt's reactions to each piece of information conveyed by that Charlie Rose interview. He has a little twinge of interest when he finds out the blue meth is still appearing, but his biggest responses come from watching his legacy being assaulted by Gretchen and Elliot. I don't think his first thought is "hey, maybe I
should kill me some Nazis" (although he will probably do that too). The inspiration he gains from watching Gretchen and Elliot seems to be of a very direct nature.
I agree it would be too obvious to use it on Lydia.
Here's the most satisfying outcomes:
Jesse kills Lydia in front of Todd. And then he kills Todd and says "this is fucking personal." Todd's expression is suddenly confused instead of blank at the point of death.
Walt kills the Nazis and gets his money back, maybe inadvertently assisting Jesse to escape --
Just like she avoided the Wolverine shootout she and jesse could end up in the same hole.. while Jesse suddenly figures out that Todd is in love with this broad. When the shootout is over he is about to kill her in front of Todd who hesitates .....
Because he is in the line of fire of Walt.
So there can be a four way stand off between Walt Jesse Todd and Lydia.
Solution is Jesse does as I said kills Lydia, then Todd, then is left to FACE OFF WITH WALT.
Gretchen and dickhead have no dramatic stake in the finale, their function was too catslyse Walt into thinking about his legacy. Just like Napoleon in exile, he simply wants the world to know that he was the greatest. If they can instantly restore his standing in the academic community in one scene I will be forever in awe. But I think you all missed the point of the bar scene.
Those dickheads may have played a part but they are just a pure waste of time now.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 25, 2013, 11:20:49 AM
Don't even bother. Polkblues has resigned himself to supporting Freddie. All hope is lost. He has jumped the shark.
Don't be jealous.
People give as much of a fuck about Elliot and Gretchen as they do about Low Winter Sun i.e nobody gives a shit. Anyone who thinks the ricin is for them, is a fucking moron who can't see that it was just an obvious cameo to bring things full circle. The whole Gray matter thing is why Walt started all of this and now is the same fire that burns him up inside to end this. With that said, I agree that if he uses it on Lydia it will be pretty disappointing because we all saw this happen 6 episodes ago. BB writers are better than that.
Something else just occurred to me, speaking of curve balls...
Wouldn't it be great if the ricin was for the Nazis, and the M60 was for Gretchen and Elliot? That would blow everyone's minds, and it kind of makes sense. Walt can't match the Nazis' firepower, so poisoning might be his only option, and he might have enough ricin. Not to mention, another shootout with the Nazis would be redundant. And how insane would it be for Walt to brutally murder Gretchen and Elliot with his M60? It would mark his final descent while also being a sort of victory.
Naw. That's too much gunpower for two people and not enough ricin for a bunch of animals. The M60 is for the Nazis and Walt will go out in a blaze of glory like at the end of Scarface.
Or..... The meth lab explodes and Walt dies by meth. Poetic Justice.
I don't see Jesse murdering anyone unless it's in self-defense/efforts to escape. But not just for revenge or because they deserve it. He needs to stay "clean" in order to survive the series.
I think I've written the most interesting outcomes. Including the obvious statement that Gretchen and Elliot mean nothing.
Skykar is the wildcard but I think dramatically I've covered all bases. That's all I have to say in terms of predictions.
Quote from: Lord Freddie on September 25, 2013, 12:03:07 PMThat's too much gunpower for two people
That would sort of be the point. This is clearly an emotional thing for Walt. Brutality would be the purpose. Also, Gretchen and Elliot might have police protection or security or something.
I did say "wouldn't it be great if" and "how insane would it be"... so this is not necessarily a prediction. More of a hope.
Quote from: Lord Freddie on September 25, 2013, 12:03:07 PMnot enough ricin for a bunch of animals
Yeah, probably not. Something else would have to be in the mix. I'm less committed to this idea than the M60 being for Gretchen and Elliot.
Ideally, the ricin is for someone we don't even expect right now.
And it might actually be better for Jesse to defeat the Nazis before Walt gets there. But like modage said, not in a murderous way... maybe they're injured/weakened by a chemical reaction. Like maybe Jesse puts on his gas mask and cooks up something to incapacitate them, which would call back to the scene where they didn't like wearing gas masks.
In any case, the M60/Nazi thing is not matching up for me. Isn't that even more dull and obvious than Lydia/ricin? I mean really, the M60/Nazi combination occurred to everyone almost as soon as the Nazis became a thing.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 25, 2013, 12:12:09 PMIncluding the obvious statement that Gretchen and Elliot mean nothing.
I really think you're wrong about that.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 25, 2013, 12:15:19 PM
And it might actually be better for Jesse to defeat the Nazis before Walt gets there. But like modage said, not in a murderous way... maybe they're injured/weakened by a chemical reaction. Like maybe Jesse puts on his gas mask and cooks up something to incapacitate them, which would call back to the scene where they didn't like wearing gas masks.
I was thinking about that as well. Might work on most of the Nazis but Todd would definitely have his mask on.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 25, 2013, 11:20:49 AM
Just like anyone who thinks Walt actually gives a shit about Gretchen and Elliot.
I could go back and watch the first half of this season's first episode to look into this, but are there still any grounds to believe that the copy of Leaves Of Grass came from Gretchen, years and years ago, and not Gail? Not that it changes anything...but I always thought that was a graceful coincidence....
wait, the initials are GB. Could it be possible that you gave it to him yourself?
Regardless of any poisoning and shooting, I want there to be a final confrontation/face-to-face between Walt and Jesse (I mean, that's a given, right?). I can't imagine how will they respond to each other at the end of the nazi massacre (if they both survive) and so on. That is going to be intense. They've fucked each other over far too many times for any good to come of it.
I think my dream of Jesse living his life in peace as a lab tech with a young family just isn't going to happen.
http://mashable.com/2013/09/25/breaking-bad-endings/
the one involving a tortoise made me laugh.
The point of the Gretchen and Elliot interview was to distinguish why Walt was returning to New Mexico. He's not returning to seek revenge. He's not seeking any kind of redemption or to absolve his sins. He's not going back to save Jesse. He is going back because of his ego. The empire he built is being stole out from under him. After the phone call with Flynn, He's realized his meth empire is all he has now. If he's gonna go down it's gonna be as a king on his throne rather than in exile in Elba.
He's returning to get his empire back even if it's his last act. So how could he use a large gun and ricin to do that? His plan will probably involve killing people but it's not his focus. Walt's plans have never been straight forward and have always played to his strengths. Him showing up with force to confront a compound of well armed Nazis doesn't seem like a Walt plan. Walt would try to out smart them. I don't think we will fully know what Walt has planned until it's done. We had no idea what was going on when Walt walked into Tuco's office.
Poisoning Lydia's tea is a good prediction but why is he doing that? I need some help figuring out his motivation for that since all he's trying to do is get back his empire. If he was getting revenge, he still wouldn't have a reason to kill her. It's gonna be very difficult to do it too. She would never meet Walt. It would be a lot more difficult to poison her than it was to poison Brock. Also, If he defeats the Nazis, then Lydia is now insignificant. She has no power.
If Walt were to go back and kill Gretchen and Elliot, that would be the biggest holy shit moment of the entire series. They took Mr. Chips further than Scarface and took him into Chris Dorner territory. I didn't think Walt was planning to kill Gretchen and Elliot while watching the episode and I still don't.
'MR. MAGORIUM' DIRECTOR
HEY 'BREAKING BAD'
I HATE MY MOVIE, TOO!
Source: TMZ
The writer/director of "Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium" tells TMZ ... he harbors no grudges against "Breaking Bad" for trashing his movie, because he also thinks it's a piece of crap!
In case you didn't see Sunday's "Breaking Bad" ... STOP READING HERE.
In the episode, Walter White was taken into a secluded home in the woods, with no Internet or cable. The only entertainment was "Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium" -- and there were TWO copies.
Zach Helm, the writer/director of "Magorium" tells TMZ ... "Having myself endured the ignominy of watching the Technicolor train-wreck that is 'Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium' multiple times every day for over a year, I can attest to it being the perfect Kafka-esque Hell for a character of such moral ambiguity as Walter White."
Zach also said as good as "Breaking Bad" is ... the plot line of ANYONE having 2 DVDs of that movie is simply unbelievable. As he put it, "That is exactly two more copies than are allowed in my house."
Re: Brando
When you say "get his empire back," do you mean conceptually? Like, defeating the Nazis and taking back his money would conceptually restore his empire? If so then I think I agree, but beyond that there's nothing he can possibly salvage.
I see his motivations being of a more destructive nature. Even if he gets the money, it's been thoroughly established that he can't get it to his family. He might as well burn it. I think this will be about restoring his dignity through destruction. Trying to have some kind of desperate victory before he dies.
Quote from: Brando on September 25, 2013, 02:41:49 PMWalt's plans have never been straight forward and have always played to his strengths. Him showing up with force to confront a compound of well armed Nazis doesn't seem like a Walt plan. Walt would try to out smart them. I don't think we will fully know what Walt has planned until it's done. We had no idea what was going on when Walt walked into Tuco's office.
I totally agree, which is why another shootout with the Nazis has not been ringing true for me. One last clever plan would be far more satisfying.
I also agree that he lacks motivation to take out Lydia. She hasn't particularly wronged him, and he doesn't know about her wanting Skyler dead. (But of course he might figure that out via logic.)
Quote from: Brando on September 25, 2013, 02:41:49 PMIf Walt were to go back and kill Gretchen and Elliot, that would be the biggest holy shit moment of the entire series.
I know, that's why it would be so great. Maybe I'm a sick person, but I want it to go there. We have the setup and the motivation. Depends just how angry he is, I guess. At this stage I don't think we should underestimate his rage; remember how little it took for him to kill Mike, and now he has nothing left to lose.
I'm reminded of when he told Jesse earlier in the season that if there's a Hell, they're both already going there. (He also told Jesse about Gretchen and Elliot in this season.)
I also still hope Walt is punished a little bit more. I feel like this (below) needs to be taken a step or two further, to its conclusion:
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 09, 2013, 12:14:10 AMWalt will have to win and lose in some combination that really eats away at his soul
He has probably been punished enough, but I think he could use one more nudge.
If the cold open is a Gray Matter flashback, I'm going to be so freaking excited.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 25, 2013, 05:20:55 PM
Re: Brando
When you say "get his empire back," do you mean conceptually? Like, defeating the Nazis and taking back his money would conceptually restore his empire? If so then I think I agree, but beyond that there's nothing he can possibly salvage.
Yeah, I would see that as a win for Walt. I don't think he's going there to take back the methylamine and start up a new cook. I think he's going there to cement his legacy as Heisenberg. He doesn't want the Nazis to be able to succeed so they can eventually write him off like Gretchen and Elliot was able to write him off. He also probably wants credit for the cook the Nazis have been doing. That could be a good thing or a bad thing for Jesse. Walt gets there and lets Jesse go cause he wants to take credit for the cook or he could kill Jesse cause he can do his cook.
'Breaking Bad' Creator Vince Gilligan Books Detective Drama at CBS
'House' creator David Shore to exec produce and showrun the series
Source: Variety
The man who brought you "Breaking Bad" has lined up a new drama at CBS.
Vince Gilligan's "Battle Creek" has nabbed a series production order for the 2014-15 TV season. CBS did not offer details on the specific episode order, but sources indicate that the Eye has offered 13 segs to the project.
"House" creator David Shore will showrun the series, and exec produce alongside Gilligan and "Breaking Bad" alum Mark Johnson. Gilligan is interested in helming the project, should his schedule permit.
Michigan-set "Battle Creek" centers on two detectives with very different world views. As they team up, they must figure out if cynicism, guile and deception will help clean up the streets of Battle Creek, Michigan in the face of lack of resources, or, if naivete and trust will get the job done.
Sony Pictures TV, the studio behind "Breaking Bad," will produce "Battle Creek" along with CBS TV Studios.
Project was created by Gilligan and developed at CBS in 2002 with Johnson's involvement, fresh off Gilligan's tenure writing and producing "The X-Files" for Fox. While Gilligan was a buzzed-about scribe thanks to his time on the popular scifi horror series, "Battle Creek" wasn't ordered to pilot at the Eye and eventually shelved.
Gilligan went on to create AMC's smash hit "Breaking Bad" and soar to notoriety, claiming the best drama series win at this year's Primetime Emmys ceremony and doing several rounds on the press circuit for coveted interviews regarding "Breaking Bad's" final season.
CBS order for "Battle Creek" continues a strong week for Sony Pictures TV, with victories including the studio's high profile Emmy wins on Sunday and a promising premiere for "The Blacklist" on NBC.
I don't think we'll see Gretchen or Elliot again.
I also don't think Todd loves Lydia that much. It seems like more a perverse sexual attraction. Besides, dude is a sociopath who has no empathy. If Jesse killed Lydia in front of his face part of me thinks he might just start laughing or shrug it off.
Ricin or not, I still think Walt kills Lydia. She's the one who wanted Skyler dead to save her own ass. If Walt catches wind of this somehow, there's no way he's not wasting her.
Breaking Bad' scene fulfilled dying boy's wish
The pivotal moment in last Sunday's penultimate "Breaking Bad" episode came when Walt saw his two ex-colleagues on TV, denouncing his contributions to their company's research. We saw our protagonist transform from willing surrender to the egomaniacal Heisenberg alter ego, bent on revenge.
That twist came thanks to one of the show's biggest fans, 16-year-old Kevin Cordasco, who died this spring after a six-year battle with cancer. The "Breaking Bad" cast and the creator, Vince Gilligan, visited the boy toward the end of his battle with neuroblastoma and dedicated the first of the final eight episodes to him.
Gilligan offered to disclose how the show ends, but Cordasco refused, hoping to stick it out to the end. Sadly, he didn't make it. But his contribution to the plot did, Gilligan explained in the "Breaking Bad Insider" podcast.
"Kevin, who was our wonderful, No. 1 fan ... he told me that first day I spent with him, visiting him, he told me what he liked about the show and I said, 'Is there something you feel is missing from the show? He said, 'You know what, I want to know more about Gretchen and Elliott. I want to know more about Walt's backstory with them. I want to know what happened.'"
Gilligan obliged and had his writers weave into that pivotal final scene during the "Granite State" episode, when Walt sits at a New Hampshire bar, ready to turn himself in, but sees his former business partners being interviewed by Charlie Rose (a bit of a stretch, but oh well). They tell Rose that Walt contributed next to nothing to their success, when in fact his research helped them make millions. Being slighted so infuriates Walt that he decides to head back to Albuquerque for a revenge involving an M60 and a vial of ricin. And that's where they presumably will pick up in Sunday's much-awaited final episode (9 p.m., AMC).
Had to wait a few days to watch this because I was camping with no cell or wifi. Luckily nothing was spoiled.
It was awesome, made me wish there had more episodes, etc etc.
Useless Prediction: Lydia insists if they're going to continue then Skyler needs to die so Todd decides why not just kill everyone left in Walt's family. Then he's like hey Lydia how bout we go on a date and she says no, they're just business partners nothing more, so he kills her too. He goes back to his Uncle/Nazis and is like hey guys, the whole Lydia thing didn't work out so lets just take our millions of dollars and call it a day. They're like yeah, all right.
Walt shows up ready to go out in a blaze of glory only to find his family is dead, and the Nazi's went on their merry way. He's left with nothing, not even an enemy. Until Jesse emerges from his hole. Walt produces the ricin and is like here Jesse, just kill me. And Jesse is like go fuck yourself and walks away. The end.
Also, just for the record, I really hope that ricin isn't for Gretchen and Elliot, that would be silly. Unless they manage to do it in a way that shows just how much Walt has lost it, without seeming like the writing staff has lost it.
Quote from: ©brad on September 25, 2013, 08:24:03 PM
Ricin or not, I still think Walt kills Lydia. She's the one who wanted Skyler dead to save her own ass. If Walt catches wind of this somehow, there's no way he's not wasting her.
that's the key, how would Walt know that? maybe he gets in touch with Skyler..
my predictions:
Jesse wont have his revenge, although id love to see that.
the one thing i see Walt doing to the grey matter couple is to tell Elliot: I Fucked Gretchen
Walt will have a stand off vs the Nazis and there he will have his revenge and death
Lydia has to pay right? or will she be the one that gets away clean?
Watch writers.
They're writing 504 and they have some cards for 5B on the wall.
Quote from: Drenka on September 26, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
Watch writers.
They're writing 504 and they have some cards for 5B on the wall.
That was fun to watch. Nice to be a fly on the wall there. Thanks for sharing!
That was awesome.
I liked the Gus Fring sculpt on the shelf.
Loved that video. For some reason I always pictured them in a larger room on couches. The table doesn't seem to be serving much of a purpose anyway.
Gordon the writers' assistant is on Facebook seriously half the time.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 26, 2013, 04:16:46 PM
Loved that video. For some reason I always pictured them in a larger room on couches. The table doesn't seem to be serving much of a purpose anyway.
Where else are they gonna put their drinks?
QuoteGordon the writers' assistant is on Facebook seriously half the time.
Just like me when I write.
Quote from: Drenka on September 26, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
Watch writers.
They're writing 504 and they have some cards for 5B on the wall.
Man, that looks like so much fun.
A Breaking Bad in the form of a Saturday morning cartoon with science projects is an incredible idea. I would watch it.
'Breaking Bad' creator Vince Gilligan talks about the journey to the grand finale, and beyond
Source: Los Angeles Times
For Walter White, judgment day is at hand.
Legions of bingeing, borderline addicts of the meth-dealing anti-hero of AMC's "Breaking Bad" will receive their final fix Sunday as the newly crowned Emmy-winning series ends. Whether fans will want to cheer, howl or self-medicate after witnessing White's ultimate fate was a matter determined almost entirely by series creator and show runner Vince Gilligan.
While his beloved series, which has racked up ratings records in its final season, may be fading away, the 46-year-old Virginia native is not. For starters, he's moving ahead with a spinoff prequel series for AMC built around "Bad's" shady lawyer Saul Goodman, and a CBS cop drama called "Battle Creek" that is slated to air next year. More projects in television and film are certain to follow in the coming weeks and months.
Less than 48 hours after his show won its first Emmy for outstanding drama series, and less than a few hours before jetting off to the Vancouver International Film Festival, a T-shirt, jeans-clad Gilligan sat down with The Times to discuss all things "Breaking Bad." Here's an edited version of the interview.
*
Congratulations on your Emmy win. Have you recovered yet?
It's all been amazing. A blur. A wonderful, high-class blur, but I'm OK. The secret is not to party all night. My girlfriend and I got home just after midnight. The thing is you're tense for three hours straight, and you keep telling yourself, "It's a wonderful thing if you win, if you lose it's not the end of the world, it's not going to kill you and change your life." But you're nonetheless keyed up.
Then, at the end of the night, people are wishing you well, which is wonderful, and all of sudden during the Governor's Ball, at some point all the adrenaline goes out of you like a toilet being flushed. And then you're completely just spaced out and exhausted.... Now my problem is how do I ever have something like this again? There's always got to be a problem. I've got to find a problem. That's just how I am.
Is everyone asking you about the ending?
It's almost like people have gotten together and consulted on the script. I'm not complaining; it's just an interesting sociological thing. They say they love the show and so sorry it's ending. And then they'll say, "How does it end?" As I open my mouth to make a joke, they hold up their hands and say they don't want to know. They start waving their hands, like stopping a car.
What can you say about the ending?
I don't want to ruin it. I haven't really told anybody, and I don't want to break my perfect record.
What's your relationship been like with Walter White?
It took me a while to realize it. I used to tell the story that I came up with Walter White [Bryan Cranston] because I was turning 40 and was facing a midlife crisis. But in hindsight, I realize it was deeper than that, and it took me several seasons to realize it.
We had an episode where Walt is giving a pep talk to Hank [Dean Norris] after Hank sees a head blow up on a tortoise. He tells Hank that, "I used to be scared of everything. My whole first 50 years of life. Everything scared me. I'd lay awake at night wondering what might happen, what could happen. Until I got my cancer diagnosis, and then I slept like a baby." I didn't really realize it until that episode, but that's really what has drawn me to this character. I'm not Heisenberg. I'm more Walter White.
I tend toward this neurotic person who wonders "what if?"' a lot. And the "what if" isn't what if I win an Emmy, what if I win an Oscar, what if I win the Nobel Peace Prize? ... It's more like what if I accidentally hit a pedestrian driving over here, what if I get diagnosed with cancer, what if the pipes break in the house while we're away on vacation? I'm one of those guys.
Did you know if Walter was going to live or die when you sat down to write the final eight episodes?
No. We had some ideas in the writers room, some of which involve things we ended up doing.... It really took to the end, the last couple episodes, to figure out exactly how it was going to wrap up.
What were your biggest narrative concerns in these final episodes?
My two big concerns were Skyler [Anna Gunn] and Jesse [Aaron Paul]. Specifically, what was she going to do when Hank comes to her? Would it still be believable after all this if she'd still stand by her man, so to speak? ....The other big worry was Jesse ratting on Walt. That's a big step for him to side with Hank over his former partner. Have we earned that?
How about for Walter?
The big question for Walt is, "Do I kill my brother-in-law or do I not?" But we didn't discuss that for more than a minute or two in the great scheme of things. Our guts told us that Walt wouldn't kill Hank. It wasn't that we were afraid that Walt would be too unlikable. It's just that you have a certain understanding of the character, and mine was he would never do that. He would never actually harm a family member.
Does Walter actually love his family?
He does love his family. He doesn't do right by his family, even though he thinks he does. But he would never harm them physically. Of course, that confession tape allowed Walt to be nasty and Heisenbergian without actually physically harming his brother-in-law.
After being caged and watching helplessly as a woman he cares for is executed, how much more can Jesse take?
We didn't set out to torture poor Jesse or make him suffer. We love the character so much ourselves. We all know he deserves better. But Jesse should never have been a criminal in the first place.... His second-biggest mistake was getting into the meth trade. But his biggest mistake by a mile was getting involved with Walter White.
Walter did give him up to the white supremacists.
He's at his lowest moment that we've ever seen him prior to giving up Jesse. He's no longer Heisenberg. He lost the battle to save his brother-in-law, who is dead right there before his eyes. He's lost all his money. He's as low as he's ever been in his entire life. He can't strike back. He's completely impotent. He's lying there in a depthless misery, and he starts to snap out of it. He realizes he's staring at Jesse Pinkman hiding under that car. And in that moment, I think he's focusing all his loss, misery and rage on Jesse.
Is there anything Walter could do to redeem himself in the final episode?
Redemption is in the eye of the viewer. I can tell you, as writers, we didn't set out to damn or redeem anyone. I would have to say that considering all the things Walter White has done in the past 61 episodes — and he's done a few good things along the way, even relatively recently — that he's two miracles shy of sainthood, as Saul Goodman [Bob Odenkirk] might say. I don't think there's any redemption for Walter White, but that doesn't mean he has to go out in a sulfurous cloud of ignominy. It remains to be seen if he goes out standing on his feet or lying on his back.
A great article from Thomas Schnauz, one of the writers, about why it had to end. Warning: there is a kind of spoiler at the end; not
really a spoiler, but kind of. Beware.
http://ideas.time.com/2013/09/29/breaking-bad-writer-why-it-has-to-end/
QuoteIs Breaking Bad really ending? Why? Why not make more?!? I'm a writer for Breaking Bad, and that's the question I've gotten the most over the past year (next to: "Is that food on your lip?"). Believe me, it's a question I've asked myself many, many times. But the answer is pretty simple: A rule in the writers' room was to never force the characters in any direction, but to let them take us there—and Walt was taking us to the end of the road.
I joined the writing staff in Season Three (the Season of the Cousins), and I came to the show as a true fan. The work of the writers, directors, actors and crew was just clicking on all cylinders. And I was tricked by the idea that Walter White was jumping through these extreme hoops for the sake of his family. I cared about him, a man trying to take care of his family, getting corrupted as he did. But then I realized that this character wasn't changing. Not really. What he was really doing was revealing his true inner nature.
As I type that, I know that is my opinion and open to debate. Vince always pitched the now-classic line: "Turning Mr. Chips into Scarface." But when I wrote scenes for Walt, I believed he was Scarface (or in our world, Heisenberg) pretending to be the man society expected him to be. Cancer gave him an excuse not to pretend anymore. And I think, for all the "evil" Walt has done, that's why we watch and identify with him. All of us, in some aspects of our lives, pretend to be something we're not. But let's watch what happens when Walter White pulls back the cover. It may be exciting, but it's damn messy. It's much safer for all of us stay civilized and watch Walter White do it! If we all did it, the world would be like that Star Trek episode with everyone running around yelling "Festival!" and raping each other and stealing each other's lunch money. I would find some of that highly unpleasant.
(MORE: Why You're Hooked on Breaking Bad)
Of course, I'm not saying that all of us have a being as monstrous as Heisenberg inside of us. Some of us do. You know who you are. (You, reading this on the toilet. I'm talking to you.) But look, I'm a boring guy who doesn't drink or do drugs... but if I didn't worry about what people thought of me, I'd probably do a few things my mother would not be proud of.
I remember the very first pitch of mine that ever made it onto the board (we'd write ideas down on index cards and pin them to a big corkboard). It was: "Walt finds the teddy bear eye in his pool filter." I was quietly relieved when something I said on that first day of work stuck. We'd cite and steal/borrow from lots of movies—The Godfather, Once Upon a Time in the West, even Rocky—but a movie that came up quite a bit in the room was Woody Allen's Crimes and Misdemeanors. A man wrestling with what he has wrought, but in the end, learning to move on. That plastic eyeball came to represent judgment. Walt didn't have God watching him the same way Martin Landau did in Crimes, but he had that plastic eyeball. As if the souls of everyone who died because of him were staring right at him.
We had a scene in an early Season Five episode where Walt found the eyeball again and threw it in the garbage, but that scene fell out and never returned. I wish it had made it in. (That's how sick we writers get about tying up loose ends—it extends to inanimate objects.) But... Walt lost track of that eyeball. He stopped worrying about what people thought.
You could almost forget that only two seasons ago, Walt had more of a conscience (well, almost). Remember early in Season Three when Walt, wracked with guilt over the Wayfarer air disaster, put his cash on the BBQ grill and set it on fire? We almost let him burn it! (The initial argument was: "Walt has enough money. We need a reason for him to cook again!") But the character eventually told us his true nature, and he dumped those flaming bills in the swimming pool to save it all. Jesse is the one with a conscience, tortured by the blood money. Not Walt. He could compartmentalize and rationalize. Walter White was a kingpin, and he was succeeding at it. Up until it went all wrong...
And man, is it going wrong for Walt this season. Now everyone—Jesse, Skyler, Junior, Marie and Hank—is paying the price. So perfectly portrayed by master Bryan Cranston, we're watching Walter White reap what he has sown. We were heading towards Crimes and Misdemeanors, but then we steered toward another film we talked about a lot in the writer's room: Fargo. Walt was almost in the clear, but a persistent cop kept picking at the truth. W.W. in "Leaves of Grass."
We knew if the cancer didn't get him first, the tower of lies that Walt built would come tumbling down. Sure, we could have ended it with Walt triumphant and sitting at home with his family, and all of his money successfully laundered. But that didn't feel like Breaking Bad. Of all the outcomes we discussed in the writers' room, I don't even think we went that way once. "Ozymandias" was always in the air. We used to think that as soon as Hank found out the truth, the show was over. But it wasn't. Not quite. It was another moment in the show that ultimately made us realize that Walt had reached the end of his journey ... SPOILER words he speaks to Skyler END SPOILER in the series finale. Once he reaches that point, he has nowhere else to go. His true nature is revealed. So that's why, sadly, we came to the end.
Yes, I'm sad it's over. Really sad. I'm probably miserable to be around. Great crew, amazing cast, best and most fun writers' room ever. Our genius cinematographer/director Michael Slovis gave us all wrap gifts with a well-known quote from Dr. Suess attached: "Don't be sad because it's over, smile because it happened, bitch." (Okay, it didn't say "bitch." I added that. I'm a writer, that's what I do.) So, I'm trying really hard to heed those words and be happy. But unfortunately, like Walt, our true natures eventually come through.
admin edit: hid spoiler.
yep that's a pretty big spoiler.
i feel like he just revealed the last scene of the show.
what a fuckhead.
pretty good show
It's finished. Huh.
It's no Curb.
SPOILS OBVS
okay. it took me about 90 minutes after the episode ended for me to figure this out, but i think that was the worst episode of the series, and harms the overall meaning of the show.
first i'll just say that i LOVED season 5. the first seven episodes of the second half were simply beyond anything i could have expected. i felt going into this that there was no way it could possibly be screwed up.
let's ignore the general content of the episode. i'll just say that it was mostly predictable but executed in a pretty satisfying manner. it had its moments, and the use of skinny pete and badger was phenomenal. here's why i think this episode is kind of terrible:
ultimately, walt gives his family over ten times the initial amount of money he was trying to get as a meth dealer. the result of all of his behaviour is that his family will never have to worry about money again. when all is said and done, his plan worked.
YES, they all had to suffer. and NO money does not solve everything, or come close to redeeming him.
BUT. he gave them a fuckload of money. remember when gilligan was saying back in season 2 that death was the easy way out? that walt would have to go through much worse than that before all this was over? okay. he did go through hell. but at the end of the day, he managed to get everything he wanted and more. he was going to die anyway.
i'm not saying this is a black and white thing, or this show is saying that cooking meth is awesome, but i do think the decision to allow walt to give his family millions of dollars is the biggest copout in recent memory. it's a little above not allowing batman to die after showing him die. this whole series has been about paying for what we do. time and time again walt has had the chance to pull out or make a clean break, and every time he has gone further and he has had to pay more. to give him millions of dollars in the final hour severely dilutes the fundamental principles of the show, and is deeply unsatisfying to me. how sweetly horribly tragic was it when walt couldn't even give his son 100,000 last episode? how perfect was that? all undone by that episode.
i still think bb is one of the best shows ever, but this episode is almost the worst thing vince could have done.
Walt won, yes. And? What's wrong? The writer is not a good God, punishing fairly its characters. I followed Walter White for years. I understand his need of power, being, myself, pretty powerless. When he was a selfish bastard, destroying everything around him, I never hated him. I was sad. Yes, he deserves to go to jail and suffer and whatever but I don't care. I'm watching a TV show, not reading an article about a criminal. I'm glad he understood, at the end, that he did it for himself. And he loved his lab. He loved making meth. His true love. Weird love. I loved how they didn't care to be ridiculous with him being sensual with his lab. He looks like crap. But he feels good.
It was predictable, yet surprising. It was the end Breaking Bad had in its DNA. I'm happy.
- I'm cool with the family keeping the money, mostly because it's going to be given to Flynn and Holly. I don't have a problem with that, they've gone through enough.
- Song at the end was perfect. Too bad I'm desensitized by it after hearing it in The Departed a billion times.
- Happy that everyone that HAD TO die, DIED. Jesse living was a given. (motherfucker probably still crying)
- Pretty much everything that happened in this episode was already "expected" but I agree they succeeded in the execution to make you feel as if was fresh. The Gretchen and Elliot portion being the most clever one, really did not see that one coming.
- This as a finale ranks in the "Almost Great" category for me. Not disappointed, but not impressed either. Will definitely miss the hell outta this show. (Countdown for rewatching of all 5 seasons has officially begun)
FELINA.
Amazing finale, immaculately-directed, and that was an epic music cue to go out on. But let's cut right to the meat. This happened:
Quote from: polkablues on September 16, 2013, 06:59:04 PMA lot has been made of Gilligan's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" trajectory, but I would say that part of the arc has already been completed. Gilligan has no interest in taking the character to Scarface level and leaving him there, he's looking to take the character there and then force him to figure out how to get back. Walt is on the road to redemption, the only question is what specific form that takes, and what the ultimate cost to his soul proves to be.
I felt no ambivalence about the finale while watching it, but I'm starting to come to terms with the message. Vince's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" quote is catchy, and people remember it, but he's also said on several occasions that he wanted to see if he could "take the protagonist and turn him into the antagonist."
This was not done, and it was not attempted. Walter White remained our protagonist. Even in his worst moments, there were enough flashes of humanity to keep us barely with him. In his darkest episode (Ozymandias), he still had several redeeming moments (wailing in agony at Hank's death, covering for Skyler in that phone call at great cost to himself). And now in the finale, Walter White earned a number of moral and material victories. He was always an antihero.
I'm disappointed that we didn't get to see the "protagonist to antagonist" experiment play out. But of course it's selfish to attach that disappointment to this specific show, so I'm trying not to do that. I'm going to see how this ending sits with me. Maybe I wish "protagonist to antagonist" hadn't been obliquely promised; maybe I wish I had listened to fewer Vince Gilligan interviews.
I mean I guess we saw it coming, because as I was saying here, as soon they started showing Hank callously using Jesse, and when Jesse spat in Walt's face, it was clear there would be no protagonist to serve as counterpoint for antagonist Walt. And in the ensuing episodes, we mostly tracked with Walt. Then with Granite State, we were in with him deep, and he would have had to completely snap to actually become a full antagonist. It would have taken something crazy like Walt brutally murdering Gretchen and Elliot. I still feel like I would have preferred an ending like that, because it would have completely blown everyone's minds, and they'd really have something to think about. What we got instead felt so straightforward and sometimes surprisingly predictable. Not that it was bad... just a missed opportunity to wrap things up with what would have been a more interesting message.
So, the message. I guess this is where I really have mixed feelings. I've been under the assumption that the writers have been primarily interested in punishing Walt, and in showing that his decision to "break bad" was not a good one. Obviously things have turned out cataclysmically overall, but there was so much redemption in this episode, so much material victory. And what really matters is the end. Considering where things were last episode, this was the sweetest series of victories Walt could have possibly hoped for. He even got to die taking the credit that he so much desired. He might have even died happy.
This happened:
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 23, 2013, 01:53:05 AMWalt, having lost his family, has gained profound clarity about who he is and what actually drives him. You can see it in his eyes. It's not his family. It's about him, it's about making something of himself, and — as we've learned, seeing him seething under his various masters — it's about self-determination. "Live free or die."
And he basically said all of that to Skyler tonight, almost beat for beat. So here's the thing:
If it's never really been about his family, what has he really lost? I mean sure, he loved his family, and his family fell apart. But he loved himself more, and as an individual, he succeeded. He got to be a legend. He got to win, many many times. He got to truly live.
Really not sure how to feel about that right now.
E: I did not expect someone to agree with me before I even posted this. I wouldn't go as far as picolas, though.
Quote from: Drenka on September 30, 2013, 12:29:41 AM
Walt won, yes. And? What's wrong? The writer is not a good God, punishing fairly its characters.
It was predictable, yet surprising. It was the end Breaking Bad had in its DNA. I'm happy.
but it runs totally counter to the dna of the show to reward walt. i'm not saying i don't like it because it's 'unfair', i'm saying it's a huge contradiction to allow walt that kind of reward. not only personal redemption by having him understand the cause of his actions (which is cool/fine) but actually giving his family more money than he ever dreamed of giving them when he began.
to argue that things don't always work out in a fair way for the audience is like.. Exactly what i'm saying is wrong with the episode. things worked out swimmingly.
Quote from: Lord Freddie on September 30, 2013, 12:36:16 AM
- I'm cool with the family keeping the money, mostly because it's going to be given to Flynn and Holly. I don't have a problem with that, they've gone through enough.
they're still being hugely rewarded for walt's actions and murders. i mean, they absolutely deserve compensation but for walt to give them the money is undoing what the show is about, i think. and it makes walt feel like he's still a good dude at the end of the day. again i'm fine with him realizing his wrongs and taking out the remains of his empire, but rewarding his family so hard is a copout.
yes, JB. vince pulled back at the last second. he didn't have the conviction to go all the way.
i don't want to come off like a hater. this is a truly special show. it's the supreme specialness of bb that makes this all the more terrible.
Walt got his reward because he finally gave up his ambition and greed and accepted the cost of it all. Or something like that.
Also, some people claimed this episode was too straightforward. But I like how everything was set out. It was very closely planned and Walt had decided what he wanted to do, without any deviation. The only hiccup came when he saw Jesse and kinda remembered he liked him (ha) and that caused the situation to change in a somewhat dramatic manner.
I initially wanted the other characters (Jessie) to be a bit more prominent but then I was fine with it being a fully Walt-centric episode. It was about his plan and what he wanted to do with it.
The final few minutes just feel so dark and brilliant and besides the gunfire, it feels quiet and eerie. Almost subdued in a way.
And it really makes sense that those couple of minutes was the only time that Walt and Jesse had for each other. That's all that was needed.
I guess that final episode summed up everything about Walt's initial intention. Tie everything up, keep his family safe and let death take him. It was satisfying.
I thought it was a great episode. I didn't think it was predictable. We've just been conditioned to expect something out of no where. I didn't think the episode needed that. It needed a clear ending.
Quote from: picolas on September 30, 2013, 12:47:19 AM
but it runs totally counter to the dna of the show to reward walt. i'm not saying i don't like it because it's 'unfair', i'm saying it's a huge contradiction to allow walt that kind of reward. not only personal redemption by having him understand the cause of his actions (which is cool/fine) but actually giving his family more money than he ever dreamed of giving them when he began.
Yes, Walt won. But it's not a contradiction because of what he won. It just shows how far he has fallen cause he sees this ending as a win. Walt winning wasn't healing his family or doing the best for them. It was being back at the top of his empire. You see Walt being able to get his money to Flynn as a win for Walt but I'm sure Walt sees it as a loss. It fucking kills Walt that Gretchen and Elliot are going to take credit for the money. Think about Walt's pride and everything he's done the entire series not to appear weak. There is no way to see Walt giving away credit for the money as a win.
It now seems obvious to end the show with that overhead shot since it's been used on previous iconic moments.
The music cue at the end was horrible. Totally out of place.
The episode was mostly predictable, except for the use of Skinny Pete and Badger. Okay, and maybe Walt's interaction with Gretchen and Elliott.
Of course Walt became the antagonist, JB. Did you forget how he killed Mike in cold blood? This was where he lost me, though there were occasions on 5B where his actions did bring cause for me to root for him again. How he put a hit out on Jesse, one that he treated (albeit abusively) like his son?
I wouldn't go as far as picolas, but I do agree this was somewhat disappointing. It was like a fan service episode. It did have a lot of very nice payoffs: Walt's last words with Skyler, his killing the Nazis with science (a robot!), Jesse killing Todd. But there were no true surprises, save Walt's genuine displays of humanity in the face of death. And even that's not a surprise, because *truly* staring death in the face would of course cause one to act in this way.
This episode is also an indication of how lucky Walt truly is. Everything went his way (except for getting one of his own bullets, but he was going to die soon anyway). He gallivanted all throughout town without being spotted, able to meet in public to poison Lydia, to visit Skyler and look upon his children one last time, to hunt down Skinny Pete and Badger, and to return to his home which had been not only been condemned, but had been turned into a place for teens to skate in the pool. Then, his contraption just so happens to work at the right height to spray fire on all of the Nazis (except Todd) and kill them. He's the luckiest guy to ever die of lung cancer at middle age. And he's exonerated Jesse by freeing him and dying in a meth lab, taking all suspicion away from him so he can now go live his life.
EDIT: Whoops, wait a minute, Jesse's not gonna be free. He better keep driving, keep that need for speed, because since the cops have ascended on that Nazi compound, the WILL find Jesse's confession, implicating him. It'd be nice to believe he gets the hell out of the states, because he'll never be truly free with that hanging over his head.
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 01:26:26 AMI didn't think it was predictable. We've just been conditioned to expect something out of no where.
The ricin and the M60 were presented as these enigmas, yet they were both destined for their most obvious targets.
The ricin thing, I have to say, was probably the worst plot move in the show's history. I don't know how they'd fix it, maybe they wrote themselves into that corner, but it was bad. It was predictable and redundant in a way that I never expected from Breaking Bad. Walt had already almost used the ricin on Lydia. It was cringe-worthy and was the one thing that immediately felt wrong. When Walt explained to Lydia that he snuck it into her Stevia, that was worth a double cringe.
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 01:26:26 AMYes, Walt won. But it's not a contradiction because of what he won. It just shows how far he has fallen cause he sees this ending as a win.
Breaking bad was the core of his ambition (not providing for his family), and he succeeded. He got to have his empire, his legendary status, even his revenge, and he went out like a hero. We can see his moral corruption as a punishment all we want, but it's really not. It was his goal.
Before the finale he went through a lot of punishment, and he lost a lot, but he gained so much of that back in one fell swoop. I'd never argue that he won everything he ever wanted... of course not. The issue is that they reversed his punishments as much as was physically possible. In Granite State he had literally nothing, and the list of his victories in the finale is kind of shocking.
Quote from: picolas on September 30, 2013, 12:47:19 AM
but it runs totally counter to the dna of the show to reward walt. i'm not saying i don't like it because it's 'unfair', i'm saying it's a huge contradiction to allow walt that kind of reward. not only personal redemption by having him understand the cause of his actions (which is cool/fine) but actually giving his family more money than he ever dreamed of giving them when he began.
Look at it in the greater context, though. He was able to leave them money, more than he'd ever set out to do, but at a cost so much greater than he'd ever imagined. He died with his son despising him, his daughter only ever knowing him as a monster from stories, and all he could do for them is give them money. Flynn doesn't want that money, he wants his dad to have been the man he used to believe he was. That's a pretty Pyrrhic victory by any measure.
The moral thesis of the show has never been as black and white as you're making it. "Right" and "wrong" on this show is not a matter of legality vs. illegality, but selflessness vs. selfishness. Walt started cooking meth for the right reasons, and we cheered his victories and suffered his setbacks along with him. It wasn't until his ego took hold and his thirst for power overwhelmed his concern for his family that he became a villain. His redemption in the finale was not the act of giving the money or killing the Nazis, it was accepting this flaw in himself and transcending it, giving himself over to the service not of himself, but of the people he cares about whom he's harmed along the way.
Of course, as we see at the very end, that doesn't mean he's rejected what he's done (he clearly felt a tremendous amount of pride still). Again, the show isn't that simplistic. He can recognize that what he did caused untold pain to countless others, but that flaw in his very core that allowed it to happen in the first place is still there. Under the same circumstances, he would do it all again and it would end up just the same every single time. It's who Walt is. But at least by the end he's realized they're all better off without him.
And at the end, it's still about him. He succeeded. He became the legend. They'll remember his name. And he's proud, in a way, to be remembered as a monster...
He "helped" with family with his money, but they don't want it. They don't care. Walt is joyful. But it's dreadful.
I didn't like that Walt and Jesse had Todd and Jack to kill. Too much. Everybody dies except Todd and Jack? Yeah. No. But it's the only bad point I find in Felina (and not enough Jesse.)
It's a whimper and a bang at the same time.
I'm not sure I would say it's the worst episode but it's easily the episode where its (IMO) missteps do the most harm to the series. Otherwise in complete agreement.
A few of my disappointments came with expectations of things I expected vs. things I got and were helped by a second viewing without those preconceptions. But my biggest issue with the finale overall is that it backpedaled on Walt's punishment. (And Skyler's for that matter. And allowed Jesse to murder a murderer? There goes his clean moral slate...)
For the last couple of years I'd thought I was watching a show whose message would ultimately be about how Walt's behavior results in hell being wrought for those around him and eventually him. The finale seemed to propose almost the opposite. It almost says, "Better to have broken bad and truly lived than to have never lived at all." I'm having a lot of trouble with this.
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 07:55:38 AM
And allowed Jesse to murder a murderer? There goes his clean moral slate...)
Isn't that like his third kill of the show? I mean it was admittedly brutal but whatever.
I think that point was made throughout the last few seasons. Hell was wrought for him and his family, resulting in the suffering of everyone. At this point, Walt's thoroughly learned this. Yes, he wins and you might see that as too neat but he has the final understanding of actions and accepts the reality of it for the most part. It was a learning experience for him to some degree.
I wouldn't say that's the final message it's imparting, they've demonstrated the ill fortunes of his actions for five seasons. Walt has had the luck of ending this on his terms- I mean the happenings of this show is the result of chance as well error.
Quote from: Lottery on September 30, 2013, 08:36:13 AM
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 07:55:38 AM
And allowed Jesse to murder a murderer? There goes his clean moral slate...)
Isn't that like his third kill of the show? I mean it was admittedly brutal but whatever.
Yes and you saw what each and every one of those decisions did to him in the months following. He put himself through hell. Not to mention the physical and emotional pain he suffered throughout the show. I would say that earns Jesse his moral slate clean if he chose it. But to say, yeah well murdering a psychopath is cool, is kind of weird for me. Yes, Todd was a monster and yes, he deserved it but for Jesse to learn that "murder is okay if it's murdering someone bad and for the purposes of revenge/getting even" is a very weird note to leave the character on.
Quote from: Lottery on September 30, 2013, 08:36:13 AM
I think that point was made throughout the last few seasons. Hell was wrought for him and his family, resulting in the suffering of everyone. At this point, Walt's thoroughly learned this. Yes, he wins and you might see that as too neat but he has the final understanding of actions and accepts the reality of it for the most part. It was a learning experience for him to some degree.
I wouldn't say that's the final message it's imparting, they've demonstrated the ill fortunes of his actions for five seasons. Walt has had the luck of ending this on his terms- I mean the happenings of this show is the result of chance as well error.
But what Walt learned was, he was willing to sacrifice all those things in order to feel alive and be great at something and leave a legacy behind. He never apologized or had to. He never was forced to consider the things he did to be as terrible as they were for those around him. His realization was that he did it for himself but also that it was worth it and he wouldn't change a thing.
Essential Vince Gilligan interview at EW (http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bad-finale-vince-gilligan/). Very wishy washy, "So it could be argued that he pays for his sins at the end or it could just as easily be argued that he gets away with it." That is not the show I thought I was watching. The thing is that I still did sympathize with Walt but I also wanted the show to kick me in the teeth at the end for doing so.
You really have a problem with Jesse killing that sociopath Todd? That was such a cathartic moment they've been building towards for several episodes now. From the beginning Jesse never had or will have a clean moral slate, and I'm glad it didn't end that way. I love him as a character but there is no redemption for him and he knows that. He killed Gale point blank, not to mention several others. Even if he escapes the country and spends the rest of his days on a beach in Mexico, he has to live with everything he's done. There's really no happy ending for him, just a less miserable one.
Polka said this well that you can't look at this show in black and white terms. I don't see how anyone can say Walt wasn't punished. Did you guys watch the last few episodes? His brother-in-law is dead, his son disowned him, his family's legacy is forever tainted and even with money, Skylar, Jr and Holly will have a pretty tough life forever being associated with Walt.
Walt did horrible things and those around him suffered, while he got to go out like a legend, feeling his most alive, with $8m to leave to his family who doesn't want it. That's a victory.
"Walt has failed on so many levels, but he has managed to do the one thing he set out to do, which is a victory. He has managed to make his family financially sound in his absence, and that was really the only thing he set out to do in that first episode. So, mission accomplished." - Vince Gilligan (http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bad-finale-vince-gilligan/)
At its very best this show transcended its genre roots to be something richer, deeper, weirder. But for the finale, it seems like they were content to deliver a finale that stuck strictly to genre. Jesse killing Todd is cathartic for the audience, but it shouldn't be. I thought this was a show where actions have consequences. And murdering someone to get even would be something not looked at as a win.
Just search your hearts, everyone. Sum up in one sentence what the show was really ABOUT. What was it telling the audience? What were we supposed to learn from watching Walt on this journey? I'd be curious to see your thoughts.
I'd say that "Breaking Bad" is about a man facing death and realizing his true potential, spending his remaining time living life to the fullest and going out at the height of his powers.
First let me say, i'm glad we got to see that good looking box. That was a great scene. I really liked all the flashbacks that this ep had, Jesse and his box and the one with walt in his old home.
I was here typing some of the same things as brad, but while debating whether or not I should 'post,' i refreshed a new tab and you beat me to it. Then mod posted in-between that time too. So, i'll just put a few of the things that I had in mind.
As far Todd's death goes, Jesse was tortured and enslaved, and forced to watch Brock become an Orphan. I find it a bit weird to try and bring "logic" into that situation. I also find it weird that just because Jesse consistenly shows emotions over these terrible acts he's committed that there's this yearning to rest assured about his "moral slate." Fuck that, be happy he's alive because he's LUCKY. His moral slate was toast once Walt started using him as his little puppet. That's the theme of the show. How one breaks bad and through the manipulation of others he cause their lives to get caught up in that whirlwind/downward spiral of breaking bad. It might be worth noting that this theme was prevalent in the finale as well. Jesse is so lucky that he made it out alive and the only reason he survived WAS BECAUSE OF WALT! almost full circle. walt brought him in and ruined his life, then saved what was left of it.
Lastly, since Walt was screwed out of the corporate world, in what may have been his only legitimate opportunity for greatness (or at least maximizing his potential as a man), don't you feel like the blood money/drug money grievances are sort of a waste of time? We are well beyond that at this point. That's why the money must come from Gretchen and Elliott/Grey Matter, because Walt was owed that anyways. From my angle Walt is owed that money, because if he'd been given what he was owed, Meth might not have even entered the equation.
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 07:55:38 AM
It almost says, "Better to have broken bad and truly lived than to have never lived at all." I'm having a lot of trouble with this.
I just don't see this at all. People will still have to live with Walt's decisions, i think this is made pretty clear when walt hands over the lotto ticket.
There's a lot of wreckage from Walt's path that may never get cleaned up. The finale just made it clear that his motives were not solely rooted in the heart of gold mentality that walt had been claiming previously. He did it for himself and tried to legitimize it through his family. To me this is the most brilliant thing the show could've done. That reveal in the kitchen was awesome btw.
Quote from: Neil on September 30, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
As far Todd's death goes, Jesse was tortured and enslaved, and forced to watch Brock become an Orphan. I find it a bit weird to try and bring "logic" into that situation. I also find it weird that just because Jesse consistenly shows emotions over these terrible acts he's committed that there's this yearning to rest assured about his "moral slate." Fuck that, be happy he's alive because he's LUCKY. His moral slate was toast once Walt started using him as his little puppet. That's the theme of the show. How one breaks bad and through the manipulation of others he cause their lives to get caught up in that whirlwind/downward spiral of breaking bad. It might be worth noting that this theme was prevalent in the finale as well. Jesse is so lucky that he made it out alive and the only reason he survived WAS BECAUSE OF WALT! almost full circle. walt brought him in and ruined his life, then saved what was left of it.
So the moral is, Jesse suffered more than Walt because he wasn't as smart as Walt. And shouldn't have gotten dragged into it in the first place?
Quote from: Neil on September 30, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 07:55:38 AM
It almost says, "Better to have broken bad and truly lived than to have never lived at all." I'm having a lot of trouble with this.
I just don't see this at all. People will still have to live with Walt's decisions, i think this is made pretty clear when walt hands over the lotto ticket.
There's a lot of wreckage from Walt's path that may never get cleaned up. The finale just made it clear that his motives were not solely rooted in the heart of gold mentality that walt had been claiming previously. He did it for himself and tried to legitimize it through his family.
YES, my point exactly!
People have to live with it! Do you know who
doesn't have to live with it though? WALT.
No. The point is there's no clean slate for jesse. Also, you missed the logic in the face of rage portion that was in there.
I guess I will concede Jesse in the face of, it's not the show's responsibility to wipe his slate clean. After he drives off, he can still be punished for what he's done. I guess that was bringing my own notions of "offering Jesse a hopeful ending" after all his suffering, which is not the show's responsibility. Though, again, Gilligan does state he thinks Jesse does get away with it instead of getting caught a few miles down the road. But lets assume he had already paid for the right for that. The bigger issue here is Walt.
Here's another bit from a few months back (http://www.vulture.com/2013/05/vince-gilligan-on-breaking-bad.html).
QuoteWith shows about difficult-to-like anti-heroes like Walter White, Tony Soprano, or Don Draper, the ending feels extra-important. The finale is when you, the showrunner, render a final verdict on the character and tell us whether your show is in a moral universe where bad people get punished. So, how vengeful a god are you?
I hope that if I were a god, I wouldn't be a particularly vengeful one. I've realized that judging the character is not a particularly fruitful endeavor on my part, and yet I have done that. I've lost sympathy for Walter White, personally. Not thinking, I've said to Bryan Cranston things like "Walt is such a bastard. He's such a shit." Then I realized this might color his perception of the man he's playing, so I found myself biting my tongue the last six months or so. And my perceptions of Walt have changed in these final eight episodes—I didn't think that was going to happen.
I think they got cold feet. Everything was pointing towards Walt getting what was coming to him, and they decided they couldn't do that to him and took a few steps towards redemption so they could offer him one last victory.
Just for the sake of curiosity, what did he have coming to him that the writer's didn't follow up on?
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 08:53:26 AMEssential Vince Gilligan interview at EW (http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bad-finale-vince-gilligan/). Very wishy washy, "So it could be argued that he pays for his sins at the end or it could just as easily be argued that he gets away with it." That is not the show I thought I was watching. The thing is that I still did sympathize with Walt but I also wanted the show to kick me in the teeth at the end for doing so.
This is exactly my disappointment. Instead, we got a finale that was essentially a crowd-pleaser. So many things were designed to create satisfaction for satisfaction's sake. Walt having a small measure of reconciliation with Skyler (his apology for his harshness in the phone call, sharing emotional moments with her), and even with Jesse (that final nod between them), Walt getting to say goodbye to Holly, Jesse killing Todd, etc. etc. etc.
I was really hoping Breaking Bad would make a statement. But this message is boring.
It just doesn't feel like interesting ambiguity. It feels like they dithered or split the difference and simply failed to make a bold choice.
Spoilers for LOST
I don't know if this relevant to the show but did ya'll notice Walt die the same way as Jack on LOST did? Wound on the right side of his rib cage. It both ends with a full shot of both bodies with them grinning.
I liked the predictable ending, at this point it was the most unpredictable thing they could've done. At least we didn't see Walt in a fucking church hugging Jane and Gale before walking into the light.
So in essence, you guys wanted the show to end with Ozymandias?
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 10:16:55 AM
I'd say that "Breaking Bad" is about a man facing death and realizing his true potential, spending his remaining time living life to the fullest and going out at the height of his powers.
yolo
Quote from: ©brad on September 30, 2013, 11:43:53 AM
So in essence, you guys wanted the show to end with Ozymandias?
Ask yourself what you believe the show was really about. What is the answer? (Serious question.)
#NODISRESPECTOCBRAD #ALLDISRESPECTTOVINCEGILLIGAN
(jk. love him too)
well i was right about this being a major spoiler, note that i added the spoiler warning after reading it:
Quote from: Drenka on September 29, 2013, 10:23:18 AM
A great article from Thomas Schnauz, one of the writers, about why it had to end. Warning: there is a kind of spoiler at the end; not really a spoiler, but kind of. Beware.
http://ideas.time.com/2013/09/29/breaking-bad-writer-why-it-has-to-end/
QuoteIt was another moment in the show that ultimately made us realize that Walt had reached the end of his journey ... SPOILER words he speaks to Skyler END SPOILER in the series finale. Once he reaches that point, he has nowhere else to go. His true nature is revealed. So that's why, sadly, we came to the end.
i hate this cunt schnauz. this cunt schnauz, as he forever shall be named, undid all the good work everyone else on the cast and crew had managed to achieve in not revealing anything about any surprises in the finale. this cunt schnauz FOR NO NECESSARY REASON revealed that walt would get one more chance to talk to skylar. this cunt schnauz did not need to say that much detail. we weren't supposed to know that walt was standing right behind that post. that was an amazing reveal and it was fucking ruined by that fucking turd cunt shit-for-brains moron who should never have been allowed to give the above interview. this cunt schnauz almost ruined the finale for me. he even revealed the realisation that walt comes to in that last scene, something we have never heard from walt before, that shit about doing it for himself because it made him feel alive.
ok now that we have established that at least one writer on the show is a complete fucking idiot, i will take a break and come back in an hour to discuss the criticisms.
but for now i'll say: modage, i answered that question about what the show meant to me in that long post after the previous episode. i don't think anyone has really thought that much about what the show has been about this whole time. i might have taken it too far because my interpretation of the core ideas certainly weren't satisfied in the end, but as the criticisms have shown anyone attempting to take a comprehensive approach to the entire narrative trajectory of the show will see that the finale kinda hit the wrong note a few times. i think only the most superficial plot-centric understanding has been satisfied in the end.
basically it's this: yes there are some ambiguities about the final state of the characters. jesse didn't really gain anything except momentary freedom from captors and perhaps getting to let go of a grudge with walt, but as he drove off he still has massive mental and emotional scars and he still could get caught by the feds. walt's family is ruined with or without the millions of dollars, his legacy will taint them forever. marie gets a burial but that is cold comfort for losing a husband and sister (she said TRUCE when she called skylar, so they must not be talking). and then of course.. WALT.. he died, which was deserved (although i was one of the few hoping he'd get away with it) but here's the problem..
THEY PRESENTED IT AS IF ALL THESE EVENTS WERE A GOOD THING FOR WALT. there is no ambiguity at all. this is made abundantly clear by the word for word literal use of the song in the last minute. what the fuck? i am not sure what they were really trying to say with this about-face. whether things turned out badly for everyone in reality is pointless because it REALLY really is presented as a bittersweet ending for walt, emphasis on the SWEET.
like i said, i'll come back, i have to go and hate the cunt schnauz a bit longer.
i think the finale could have been more dramatic, but this is an amoral universe and the ending makes sense in it. they mentioned crimes & misdemeanors, and that is a fitting reference, because there not only the character gets away with everything, he even gets to live his life happily as if nothing happened.
walter's arc is pretty clear now. he needed to justify himself all this somehow. and it's through his recognition of selfishness that he is able to do that. so he gets peace. it's bullshit, but this is how most people achieve peace with terrible deeds. i don't understand this need to see walter and jesse and the characters in general get punished or live with "consequences".
Quote from: Alexandro on September 30, 2013, 12:33:20 PM
i think the finale could have been more dramatic, but this is an amoral universe and the ending makes sense in it. they mentioned crimes & misdemeanors, and that is a fitting reference, because there not only the character gets away with everything, he even gets to live his life happily as if nothing happened.
But for 5 seasons, the show has been telling us that (not in the real world but) in the world of the show, actions have consequences. There has been no evidence in Gilligan's universe to support the idea that the universe is random and chaotic and sometimes evil deeds go unpunished. Crimes & Misdemeanors thing sounds like something they came up with after the fact but is at odds with the rest of the entire series.
they also mentioned that eventually they stopped thinking of crimes and misdemeanors and started talking about Fargo.
pretty sure the ending wouldn't have been so triumphant had that been their guiding light.
i liked the episode though, because i'm one of the dickheads they tried to appease by giving walt so many victories. i'm not dissatisfied because i wanted him punished, i just wanted something more meaningful. that final song was SO on the nose it was ridiculous. the lyrics were saying almost exactly what the visuals were showing. i mean emotionally. the music added nothing. it was embarrassingly cute.
Quote from: Brando on August 01, 2013, 01:46:33 AM
I think the show has to end with two things. The first and most obvious is with Walt's death. The second is for the show to go out with what it is known for and that would be Walt and his crazy Plans. The new identity, disguise and the gun is the first part of Walt's final and craziest scheme that he knows will result in his death. With that comment from Vince Gilligan, Walt's death is important in the success of the plan.
Especially due to the Vince Gilligan comment about the ending being a win for Walt, This was the ending I was expecting. I didn't know the specifics but as things started to pan out it became as the most plausible way it was going to end. Walt sees this as a win but only someone who's soul is as corrupted as Walt's could see this as a Win. He's a man who has lost everything. He's done so much harm to people he's loved.
I read some people were upset that everything went right for Walt. It's Breaking Bad. These plans always work out. How many of these crazy schemes over the series have we seen? There were ones that were a thousand times more complex but no one questioned the credibility. Walt was in town for less than a day but it wasn't plausible he wasn't immediately caught? How many national man hunts and amber alerts that last days and weeks but a bearded Walt couldn't be in town for a few hours?
Totally fair to call out and disagree with the final episode but don't think it's fair to say Vince Gilligan chickened out. It just comes off as presumptuous to say Vince wasn't brave enough to end the show the way I feel it should have ended. Even if you think the writers failed with the final episode,I think Vince Gilligan and the writers have earned enough credit to say they ended it how they wanted to end it instead of getting cold feet.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 30, 2013, 01:00:55 PM
they also mentioned that eventually they stopped thinking of crimes and misdemeanors and started talking about Fargo.
pretty sure the ending wouldn't have been so triumphant had that been their guiding light.
i liked the episode though, because i'm one of the dickheads they tried to appease by giving walt so many victories. i'm not dissatisfied because i wanted him punished, i just wanted something more meaningful. that final song was SO on the nose it was ridiculous. the lyrics were saying almost exactly what the visuals were showing. i mean emotionally. the music added nothing. it was embarrassingly cute.
the final song was my least favourite part of the episode. i don't think it was the best episode of the season onto itself, but i couldn't be happier with the way it did play out.
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 12:02:49 PM
Quote from: ©brad on September 30, 2013, 11:43:53 AM
So in essence, you guys wanted the show to end with Ozymandias?
Ask yourself what you believe the show was really about. What is the answer? (Serious question.)
#NODISRESPECTOCBRAD #ALLDISRESPECTTOVINCEGILLIGAN (jk. love him too)
Haha I hear you. Was just trying to understand where you were coming from with Jesse. It seems most critics agree with you. Here's (http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/what-everyone-is-writing-about-breaking-bad.html) a round-up from Vulture.
Quote from: Pubrick on September 30, 2013, 01:00:55 PMi liked the episode though, because i'm one of the dickheads they tried to appease by giving walt so many victories. i'm not dissatisfied because i wanted him punished, i just wanted something more meaningful. that final song was SO on the nose it was ridiculous. the lyrics were saying almost exactly what the visuals were showing. i mean emotionally. the music added nothing. it was embarrassingly cute.
I'm pretty much here. I liked the finale but I want to watch it again and think about it more before I decide definitively what they were trying to say and not say. I did want more of a gut-punch at the end. And yeah that song choice felt like a different show.
Quote from: ©brad on September 30, 2013, 01:22:41 PM
Here's (http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/what-everyone-is-writing-about-breaking-bad.html) a round-up from Vulture.
holy fuck this just made me look forward to rewatching the episode on its own terms rather than what i thought the show was about:
Quote* "The theme of "Felina" seems to be this: People and machines are usually predictable. Lydia meets her business partners like she always did, tears open the only stevia packet on the table like she always does. Gretchen and Elliot betrayed on television how much they fear losing their reputation and their elegant lives, and that means that they can be manipulated. Walt has always used this predictability—this scientific certainty about action and reaction—to get what he wants. But it's taken him until now to realize the corollary: If you can change your pattern, those predictable people and machines will miss you. Walt changes; he's the only one who does. After their purpose is fulfilled, the machines stay in motion. The massage chair keeps rolling even though its occupant is dead. The M60 keeps sweeping even though it's out of ammunition. But Walt's purpose is fulfilled, and he just stops." — Donna Bowman, The A.V. Club (http://www.avclub.com/articles/felina,102961/)
there's a lot of insightful reviews here actually, i'm really glad to see so much conflicted dissatisfaction.
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 01:08:56 PM
Walt sees this as a win but only someone who's soul is as corrupted as Walt's could see this as a Win. He's a man who has lost everything. He's done so much harm to people he's loved.
This is absolutely not true. More accurately would be: He's a man who lost his family and gained his self-respect. Or he's a man who sacrificed the love of his family for the love of himself. But the show didn't view that as any kind of tragedy, they let it play as a victory.
for people like me who didn't watch the show and are just reading the end results:
last song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkA7xQb6uPk
the end title appears to be an anagram of the italian word finale, indeed. used when a drama ends
the marty robbins song with the felina name wasn't used. the marty robbins song that comes right before that song was used when beginning the episode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIHRgisdbeY
my response to responses from the final episode:
a variety of specific desires sound missing. the narrative map wasn't torn, in linearity or philosophy, and that leaves only the map. nothing to do now but check the map. i'm enjoying people doing that. seems like an intricate and compelling map was made, and while certain cities couldn't exist, the ones that did exist will remain as good as they were. sounds like they were quite good. everything that's pure disappointment today will fade tomorrow
it's breaking bad, plenty of people will be there to think about it and write about it
it's so weird what you're doing. i'm not sure i like it. but then i think i do something similar when trolling mad men, arrested development and the walking dead.
do you ever plan on watching the show? or are you happy to just live your life not understanding a single thing that is going on?
your assumptions and guesses are totally wrong by the way. i mean, i don't watch those shows i troll but i'm pretty sure i'm right when i predict they'll all be as satisfying as dexter (another waste of time i'm glad i avoided.)
it must be weird, i agree. i'm observing you observing a show, without observing the show itself. i directed my post toward people who don't watch the show. we should have our own thread but, of course, we can't have long conversations about the show. i included songs so people didn't have to google them
i don't have breaking bad plans. i am happy without breaking bad, yes, that's a bizarre question
i don't know what assumptions and guesses from that post you mean. i didn't make any. i think you mean earlier in here, when i was caught in a gust as a leaf from a different tree. i'm not trying to troll. i see where you're coming from. can this be the end of this? it is for me
and now, back to breaking bad
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 12:02:49 PM
#NODISRESPECTOCBRAD #ALLDISRESPECTTOVINCEGILLIGAN (jk. love him too)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kanyetothe.com%2Fforum%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2Fkanyelaugh.png&hash=dd3340c643324a6c1c371741b75b097c9cb64446)
Interesting. According to the podcast, Gilligan had originally planned to have Skyler kill herself (this is what he pitched to AMC when he explained the season to them in October). He says the other writers talked him out of it and now he agrees it was for the best, says it would have been "unnecessary."
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 01:40:40 PM
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 01:08:56 PM
Walt sees this as a win but only someone who's soul is as corrupted as Walt's could see this as a Win. He's a man who has lost everything. He's done so much harm to people he's loved.
This is absolutely not true. More accurately would be: He's a man who lost his family and gained his self-respect. Or he's a man who sacrificed the love of his family for the love of himself. But the show didn't view that as any kind of tragedy, they let it play as a victory.
That's difference cause I did view it as a tragedy. I don't think you can argue Walt completely losing his family and putting them through all this pain as a win. No matter how far Walt has fallen, he's always loved his family and been the most important thing to him. Walt losing his money, empire only hurt his ego. The loss of his family hit the heart of Walter White. It was the only thing Walt could lose that could really punish him.
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 03:08:21 PM
Interesting. According to the podcast, Gilligan had originally planned to have Skyler kill herself (this is what he pitched to AMC when he explained the season to them in October). He says the other writers talked him out of it and now he agrees it was for the best, says it would have been "unnecessary."
I'm about to listen to the podcast myself. I cannot see Skyler White killing herself. It's just out of character from the woman we've seen over the entire series.
Anyone else notice the Flynn's weird camouflage pants?
I treated last two episodes as epilogue and it worked for me. "Ozymandias" is good ending to story of Walt as drug baron (from rise to fall). In "Granite State" and "Felina" main theme is a search for self-acceptance, not only acceptance of Heisenberg (dark part of his soul), but also dying from cancer. Those two things are interconnected, but I felt that special emphasis was put on cancer later on.
Story begins with Walt being diagnosed with cancer. Writers started rolling the ball with it and made main character believable. This could be replaced by something else, it was just convenient. Yet I don't think that relapse in this season was a mere coincidence. It was put there very deliberately, why bother otherwise? "Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance" - someone had fun playing with those in last few episodes (with last two almost exclusively focused on Walt).
Overall it was good ride (trolling begins here, so you can skip). I left "Breaking Bad" in half of the second season to focus on watching other shows. I fell that was good decision: Breaking Bad fits binge watching model very well. I picked up it again not so long ago, because fan base was very noisy and reading spoilers by accidents including who dies and how at the end of second season wasn't fun.
Rest in peace Walt.
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 03:17:40 PM
I'm about to listen to the podcast myself. I cannot see Skyler White killing herself. It's just out of character from the woman we've seen over the entire series.
Then what would you call "Fifty-One" (besides a cry for help)?
Vince Gilligan on letting Walt succeed in giving the money to his family: "We knew to satisfy the audience, first and foremost to satisfy us, we knew we wanted Walt, it's kind of a no-brainer when you think about it, we want walt to succeed on some level. Morally speaking, it's not that he deserves to succeed and yet nonetheless you want it, as a viewer. He's your protagonist if not your hero. And you don't want it to be all for nothing. So it's kind of a no-brainer that he gets at least some of his money to his family. So you know you want that but the question is how do you do it?"
I wonder when their attitudes started to shift in the writers room?
Quote from: ono on September 30, 2013, 04:16:49 PM
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 03:17:40 PM
I'm about to listen to the podcast myself. I cannot see Skyler White killing herself. It's just out of character from the woman we've seen over the entire series.
Then what would you call "Fifty-One" (besides a cry for help)?
I would call it her plan to get the kids out of the house. I thought that was made certain in the episode. Walt even confronts Skyler and she admits it.
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 04:28:07 PM
I wonder when their attitudes started to shift in the writers room?
All opinions on the final episode aside, it is tough to hold someone 100% to certain ideals when those ideals are applied to a medium as expansive as six seasons of television. Attitudes are definitely going to shift over time, even in the space of one season (or even a single episode), especially with characters like these, occupying moral territory as gray as they have for such a sustained period of time. And for as much frustration as this shifting might have caused in this final hour, I think it's also almost certainly the root of some of the most satisfying and enriching complexities of the previous 63 hours.
So, I hold nothing against them.
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 01:40:40 PMHe's a man who lost his family and gained his self-respect. Or he's a man who sacrificed the love of his family for the love of himself. But the show didn't view that as any kind of tragedy, they let it play as a victory.
Yeah. It's disappointing. How many times has Vince said in the podcast that they're trying to show what a horrible decision it was to "break bad"? So many times. But they let it pay off. They could have made such an epic statement with the end of this show, but they opted to wrap it up as a standard antihero story. I still can't believe it.
I'm going to try my hardest to revisit the last 3 episodes and accept this ending on its own terms. I'm trying... I really am.
So how about some favorite episodes lists?
Thanks for saying that. I read two pieces that helped articulate my feelings pretty well (after feeling utterly alone in my dissatisfaction for most of the day):
http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2013/09/30/227740741/breaking-bad-lands-its-finale-a-little-too-cleanly?ft=1&f=93568166
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-breaking-bad-recap-20130929,0,4780572.story
I too am gonna try to accept it on its own terms but I think it's going to take some time. I am truly going to miss this show. Thank God for 2 more mini-years of MAD MEN.
Linda Holmes is the best. She said it perfectly:
"For Gilligan, those things were self-evidently connected: the satisfaction of the ending and the degree to which the terms of that ending are set by Walt."
"I could not escape the feeling that by earning anyone's sympathy, Walt was getting away with one last self-aggrandizing con."
And I think she helped illuminate why it's so hard for me to buy Walt's redemption or even half-redemption. At his core, he doesn't regret breaking bad. He acknowledges "mistakes" (as he says in Granite State) along the way, but he does not consider breaking bad itself to have been a mistake. Especially not in the end. He is practically in a state of euphoria as he dies in the meth lab.
I'm a fairly compassionate person, but I'm sorry, he doesn't earn redemption going out like that.
Also incidentally: how many people other than me had never heard of the term 'breaking bad' before this show existed, and still find it odd to see it used in the active tense in sentences?
I don't see it as a redemptive ending, regardless of Gilligan's latest sound bites.
What exactly do you guys define as the victory moment? Walt getting money to his family via Gretchen? I don't think all the money in the world is going to make skylar and jr happy at this point. They are forever doomed to a life of severe depression, alcoholism, and god knows what else. A few victories in this finale don't redeem all of Walts sins. Yeah okay he got the money to his family, but look at what breaking bad to get that money cost him?
Yeah, I feel like the goalposts have moved significantly on what constitutes a victory for this character. If, at the beginning of the series, you were told that Walt would end up despised and disowned by his family, responsible for his brother-in-law's murder, remembered as a monster by everyone he ever cared about, but at least he figured out a way to leave money for his kids and got to take credit for his drug empire, would you honestly have considered that a victorious ending?
In his last moments, Walt feels a sense of completion, of validation for what he accomplished, but that's only a subjective victory, and even then only in the narrowest possible terms.
Quote from: modage on September 30, 2013, 09:55:17 PM
Thanks for saying that. I read two pieces that helped articulate my feelings pretty well (after feeling utterly alone in my dissatisfaction for most of the day):
That's funny cause I've felt alone in my satisfaction.
I have a question for those who are dissatisfied. What do think they could have done to punish Walt? I can see only one way to punish him and that would be to do even more harm to his family. Walt has had death looming over him for 2 years so dying isn't a punishment. Would you feel differently with the ending if Skyler, Flynn and Holly were in worse shape? If Walt had to visit his family living in a really bad neighborhood surrounded by people smoking blue meth, would that change your opinion if the rest of the episode remained the same?
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 30, 2013, 10:20:30 PM
And I think she helped illuminate why it's so hard for me to buy Walt's redemption or even half-redemption. At his core, he doesn't regret breaking bad. He acknowledges "mistakes" (as he says in Granite State) along the way, but he does not consider breaking bad itself to have been a mistake. Especially not in the end. He is practically in a state of euphoria as he dies in the meth lab.
I'm a fairly compassionate person, but I'm sorry, he doesn't earn redemption going out like that.
I guess that's how it should be considered, not as a redemption but an acknowledgement. He made it clear that it made him feel alive, he enjoyed it (some aspects of it least) but at the end it's hollow and it's caused too much trouble. So yeah, acknowledgement and not heroic self-sacrifice.
Quote from: polkablues on September 30, 2013, 11:04:49 PMIn his last moments, Walt feels a sense of completion, of validation for what he accomplished, but that's only a subjective victory, and even then only in the narrowest possible terms.
Yes this. Walt's bullshit rationalizations and views of what he thinks he has to do so "it's not all for nothing" are his own and not necessarily synonymous with what the writers feel or the overall message of the show.
I liked the finale, really thought Jesse wouldn't make it but as the episode progressed it was clear he was going to, and I'm glad, i was really happy to see him choking Todd, but for br ba it was predictable, I read many predictions and many nailed them:
ricin for Lydia
Walt killing Nazis
Walt freeing Jesse
Jesse having his revenge with Todd
the must surprising scene was what Walt did at the grey matter's couple house, also it was nice to see for the last time Badger and skinny Pete.
Quote from: polkablues on September 30, 2013, 02:19:07 AM
That's a pretty Pyrrhic victory by any measure.
exactly, that's a perfect way to describe Walt's victory.
just for knowledge sake here's the definition:
Etymology
The phrase Pyrrhic victory is named after Greek King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War. After the latter battle, Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:
The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.
—Plutarch, [1]
an
I'm going to miss terribly this show, in the end it was better amc split S5 in two, maybe the same will happen to mad men although I don't know if they are going to write seven this year and the rest in 2014, btw they should do eight per year too, seven is too few.
edit:
Finally I can watch the promos, the one for the last episode didn't have any new footage actually, the song that plays is awesome, I think that could had been better than baby blue....maybe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HAQt2sKC_E
We've already addressed all of those points. I also never claimed it was complete redemption or complete victory. I'll stick to this, from several pages ago:
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on September 30, 2013, 01:54:29 AMBefore the finale he went through a lot of punishment, and he lost a lot, but he gained so much of that back in one fell swoop. I'd never argue that he won everything he ever wanted... of course not. The issue is that they reversed his punishments as much as was physically possible. In Granite State he had literally nothing, and the list of his victories in the finale is kind of shocking.
Redemption and victory are separate issues, and Walt certainly got a lot more victory than redemption, but this finale definitely mixed them together. Those moments of redemption are obviously supposed to read as real, but they seem unearned.
Quote from: ©brad on September 30, 2013, 10:45:39 PMWhat exactly do you guys define as the victory moment?
I've sort of been waiting for someone to ask. Let's go through them chronologically:
1. Walt finds the keys as if through divine intervention. I know it's sort of a joke, but it's an indication of things to come.
2. Laundering the money through Gretchen and Elliot was brilliant. How many car washes would they have needed to accomplish that? Quite a comeback considering the impossible money situation in Granite State. A significant victory... and they essentially devote the first 18 minutes of the episode to it.
3. Walt completely fools Lydia and Todd. Poisons Lydia AND successfully schedules the confrontation with the Nazis.
4. Walt successfully builds the M60 robot without complications.
5. Walt gets to say goodbye to Skyler in a humane way and apologize for the harshness of the phone call. (Bonus redemption points.)
6. Walt officially achieves self-actualization.
7. Walt gets to say goodbye to Holly and share an emotional moment with Skyler, who seems compassionate toward him, as if to cue the audience. (Bonus redemption points.)
8. Walt pulls off one last epic caper, successfully killing the Nazis with the M60, achieving vengeance.
9. Walt gets that phone call with Lydia and gets to break the news to her, which he relishes.
10. Walt has now successfully disposed of the Nazis and Lydia, ensuring his family's safety. (Bonus redemption points.)
11. Walt has the opportunity to free Jesse and takes it. They even share that final nod of understanding, which is almost meant to reverse the nod Walter gave when he consented to Jesse's torture and imprisonment. Jesse in this moment is even more expressively sympathetic than I originally remembered. Seriously, check it out again. He's almost giving Walt this look like "Yeah, I get it. At least you made it right." (Massive bonus redemption points.)
12. Walt got to die in his sacred place, nearly euphoric with nostalgia. Taking credit for the ongoing blue meth production, preserving his legacy. He got to go out as a legend.
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 11:20:45 PMI have a question for those who are dissatisfied. What do think they could have done to punish Walt?
Maybe knock a few items off the above list. That's the thing... he
was fully punished in Granite State, and they took much of it back.
I would have liked the show to end with an interesting message. Making a bold statement. It was a surprising time for Breaking Bad to lose its edge, that's all.
just to clarify, I think it was a Pyrrhic victory if we see it from beginning to end.
but in this episode and the way the story was supposed to go you are right, Walt won everything he set out to do, all his plans worked out like a charm.
Yeah. And I do understand Polka's point about viewing Walt's relative victories from beginning to end. But the fact is, what we just experienced is E15 to E16. I don't think we can be blamed for feeling slightly cheated when those hard-won punishments (which we so badly wanted) were taken back as much as possible, in the name of "the audience feeling satisfied." (Yeah, some of the things Vince is saying in the podcast are very disappointing.)
I don't begrudge anyone's satisfaction, though. It's a matter of personal preference. How much did you want to see Walt punished? Did you want him to end up the protagonist? Did you want Breaking Bad to make a bold statement with the finale, or did you want sweeping resolution?
He set out to help those he had harmed (as much as was still possible), and the universe gave him his mojo back long enough to do it. That seems utterly consistent with the moral philosophy of the show as I understand it.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 01, 2013, 01:01:37 AM
I don't begrudge anyone's satisfaction, though. It's a matter of personal preference. How much did you want to see Walt punished? Did you want him to end up the protagonist? Did you want Breaking Bad to make a bold statement with the finale, or did you want sweeping resolution?
Perhaps this all comes down to my favorite subject,
The Podcast. If week after week Vince Gilligan wasn't talking about "Mr. Chips to scarface" and and "Protagonist to Antagonist" and Breaking Bad's Moral Universe, perhaps expectations wouldn't have been so high for a bold statement and a brutal punishment for Walt's actions.
Then again, I don't listen to the podcast so I can't really say. But as I've previously stated, I really wish Vince would let the show speak for itself more, especially the finale.
Overall I found the finale satisfying. Walt's scene with Skyler was great, Walt's scene with Jesse was great, Walt's scene with the meth lab was great. The rest I can't really say I cared all that much about (compared to plot points in other seasons), but it was fine. I think they really kind of screwed themselves when they wrote that cold opening with the M60.
Quote from: polkablues on October 01, 2013, 01:02:42 AM
He set out to help those he had harmed (as much as was still possible), and the universe gave him his mojo back long enough to do it. That seems utterly consistent with the moral philosophy of the show as I understand it.
You're invoking altruism? I see maybe one item on my list that was motivated/initiated by altruism... his visit to Skyler, which is colored by his personal desire to attain more pleasant goodbyes, which he probably doesn't deserve. (He could just leave his family alone.) Walt duplicitously laundering money to his family when they clearly don't want his drug money is also a bit sketchy (though I would advise them to take the money), and it's colored by his desire to justify his original decision to break bad. ("It can't have all been for nothing!")
The good that comes from killing the Nazis is mostly accidental... side effects of a plan he already had in mind. He was raging about taking revenge on them at the beginning of Granite State.
Saying "he set out to help those he had harmed" is an ambitious claim at this point.
Quote from: Brando on September 30, 2013, 11:20:45 PM
What do think they could have done to punish Walt?
The 3 things that would have really punished Walt: his family, his money or his legacy as Heisenberg.
He didn't really lose any of those things. His family mostly hates him (though Skyler was still okay with letting him have his last words) but they're all still ALIVE. (The misery and struggles they'll face in his absence isn't really on his mind since he thinks the money is what he owes them, not their lives back.) His money goes to his son (who doesn't want it) and his legacy as Heisenberg is in tact (blue meth stops being made).
Quote from: polkablues on September 30, 2013, 11:04:49 PM
Yeah, I feel like the goalposts have moved significantly on what constitutes a victory for this character.
The goal posts have moved significantly since the beginning of the series (think of all the awful things he's done in the last few seasons) and that's kind of the point. The Walt in Season 1 would've been devastated by this outcome, but Walt of Season 5.2 just isn't. That's why considering this ending as a fitting punishment for his character just doesn't work.
The one thing I do wonder about a lot is if I would have been content with this finale had I not been such an obsessive fan. If I hadn't listened to the podcasts, and read the interviews and read the recaps (and written the recaps), if it would've seemed like a completely appropriate ending and not so out of place with where I thought they were heading?
Quote from: modage on October 01, 2013, 09:22:50 AM
The one thing I do wonder about a lot is if I would have been content with this finale had I not been such an obsessive fan. If I hadn't listened to the podcasts, and read the interviews and read the recaps (and written the recaps), if it would've seemed like a completely appropriate ending and not so out of place with where I thought they were heading?
that's exactly what i'm getting as the deciding factor between the different reactions.
i feel like this finale was made to satisfy not so much the casual viewer, because they will take whatever they can get, and not the hardcore viewer, whom i consider yourself and JB to be, but rather the less discerning viewer. i don't want to insult anyone here and say they never really understood the show because that would be elitist, but there is really no way you can argue against the excellent points JB listed and the three main dissatisfactions you have pointed out.
the reason the ending is so unsatisfying is because it DOESN'T stand to scrutiny like the rest of the perfect show has. i think it simply struck the wrong note. every dramatic beat was hit strictly in a structural sense, but somewhere along the way they abandoned a lot of deeper truths about the characters.
walt's demise did not ring true in the way the show presented it. if it was a delusional moment for him, where he could be the only one who thought he was triumphant in any way, then it shouldn't have felt so triumphant for US. the reality of the wreckage he left behind should have been made more apparent so at least his efforts to correct them could have been revealed to be as futile as they were.
instead, everything he did worked out mechanically despite the thematic disconnect with what the show needed. the fucking song at the end is a clear indication of something hitting the wrong note. what the hell did that add to the scene that wasn't evident visually? at the risk of repeating myself (like we all are at this point), it's like they didn't want us to leave with any doubt that walt found peace and even happiness in those last moments.
he was as disconnected from the reality of his actions as the show writers seem to be from the reality of his character.
Listening now to the Hollywood Prospectus podcast and they're bringing up some really good points too esp. regarding the Walt/Jesse relationship and how that was underserved by the final episodes.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/88524/hollywood-prospectus-podcast-the-breaking-bad-finale-homeland-and-masters-of-sex
Quote from: modage on October 01, 2013, 10:02:10 AM
Listening now to the Hollywood Prospectus podcast and they're bringing up some really good points too esp. regarding the Walt/Jesse relationship and how that was underserved by the final episodes.
This I can absolutely get behind. I feel it was a bummer that the writers decided to sideline Jesse for so much of these last 8 episodes. He spent too much time off-screen melting down and being tortured. It's why Walt and Jesse's final showdown didn't carry as much weight as it should have.
'Breaking Bad' Finale Analysis: Walt's Takeover Was Complete (But Hard To Buy And Unsatisfying)
Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/breaking-bad-ending_b_4022685.html)
"Ultimately, "Breaking Bad" went from a show with an unsparing eye to a show that, at the very end, didn't really want to look.
As many have noted, the "Breaking Bad" finale wrapped up many plot points rather tidily -- so neatly that it felt like the universe was lining up to do Walt's bidding. And that was ... weird. The cool, rational point of view -- the earlier vision of Walt as a creature under a microscope, a lab subject "sprawling on a pin" -- wasn't on display here. That distanced, even jaundiced view of Walt felt like a thing of the past. That unstoppable con artist Walter White had taken control, and it felt as though "Breaking Bad" -- a show that interrogated and subverted the anti-hero myth for so long -- had started to root for him.
Creator Vince Gilligan and his writers used to observe this man with detachment, but after Walter White left that bar in "Granite State," he ran the table and the show. The finale was 96 percent pure Walter Hartwell White -- whatever he wanted, he got. So much for just deserts; by dictating the terms of his exit, Walt just got dessert.
Walt is certainly a seductive personality, and it must be hard to be merciless toward your story's lead character when you're about to leave him forever. But aren't those who tell the tale supposed to be at a certain remove from the characters? Knowing them so well, shouldn't they be less easily seduced?
Yet, right at the end, "Breaking Bad" ignored the cardinal rule of all drug-related enterprises: Don't get high on your own supply.
Contrast "Breaking Bad's" ending with that of "The Shield." I won't give that ending away, except to say that Vic Mackey, who had told himself he was simply trying to do good but had let his ego run amok, was denied everything he wanted most. The world, or fate, or whatever you want to call it, finally put obstacles in his path that he couldn't get over. The universe said, "No."
Not so for Walt. "Breaking Bad" blinked; it hesitated. Its desire to burnish and redeem Walt made the finale anti-climactic -- or rather, post-climactic. Why couldn't the events of "To'hajiilee" and "Ozymandias" -- a more powerful concluding arc, in my view -- be left as they were? Because that arc was too unsparing. It was too bleak.
Wait a minute, wasn't "unsparing and bleak" "Breaking Bad's" thing? Wasn't that what I was drawn to, almost in spite of myself?
I'm not saying that the show totally lacked compassion for everyone on screen, even Walt -- that was never the case. And I'm not saying the finale was a bad episode of television. It was just far less powerful than it could have been. And before you call for my head on a platter, I'll say that "Breaking Bad" still belongs in the pantheon of great TV shows.
But the finale's impact was blunted by its tendency to view Walt's actions not just as the right ones but as the necessary ones. This isn't about wishing retribution on Walt per se, it's about wanting him to live in a universe that's capable of biting back. It's the universe that he'd lived in for the five previous seasons (and, until "Felina," wasn't all that different from the reality we live in, too).
Walt got a sentimental ending. He got to go out on a win. Don't ask how he got his millions from the cabin, how he lucked into a car with the keys inside, how he traveled cross-country and flitted all over ABQ without being spotted, how he hooked up with Badger and Skinny Pete without being seen, how it was so easy for him to get into the Schwartz house (and get them to haul his money around), or how a man near death rigged up a machine gun with a device that surely figures in an alternate cut of a Patrick Swayze direct-to-video action movie. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, he's experiencing a redemptive arc!
Real talk: "Breaking Bad" simply could not bring itself to lower the boom on Walt. The story got wrapped up and the plot was tidily concluded, but "Breaking Bad" lobbed the moral reckoning back in our laps. "You decide," it seemed to say. The show always allowed us the space to make our own assessment of Walt, and that is to be commended, but there was something evasive about the finale. Evasiveness from the most tough-minded show in recent memory? That didn't seem possible not so long ago.
In the end, the show whose uncompromising vision won me over -- me, a total sap who likes to cry and feel all the feelings -- backed away from the consequences and final judgment seemingly foretold in those early seasons. As I wrote in my review, for Walt, balancing the cosmic scales of karma would have involved going through an endgame that deprived him of control and power -- the two things he valued most. That didn't happen.
We can endlessly debate whether or not Walt got his comeuppance, and how much of a comeuppance he deserved. We will forever argue, I suspect, about whether that truthful admission to Skyler was more valuable than Fate serving Walt a plate of humble pie. The point is, to allow so much control -- and for the universe to acquiesce so meekly -- well, that doesn't feel like the show of "Full Measure" or "Box Cutter" or even "Ozymandias." Right at the end, "Breaking Bad" went with resolutions that were more cynical or more forgiving than I would have expected.
The show ended with a smiling Walt surrounded by the machinery and chemicals he loved. Jesse and Skyler let him exit their lives with few, if any, penalties, and almost everyone else was dead. The Greek chorus that commented on Walt's actions was silent or gone. The unsparing eye that had regarded his actions with unstinting clarity was replaced, in the end, by a camera that rose up into the heavens, regarding a peaceful Walt -- kindly, I think -- from on high.
The desire to pull punches is understandable; Lord knows, I have wrestled with how much disappointment to lob at a show I have loved with all the jittery fervor of a meth addict.
Just as the writers couldn't quite lower the boom on Walt, I find it difficult to lower the boom on "Breaking Bad." I still love the show and respect it, truly.
Maybe Walt got to me, too. Goddamn that guy."
yeah. that's what we just said, repeatedly.
there's lots of reviews saying the same thing.
should we post them all?
It seemed like a nice summation of the dissenters' argument and made some new points that no haven't been made here yet. I don't see what the problem is. I'm not flooding the thread with reviews.
i didn't really think it brought anything new to the table that hadn't already been well expressed by mod and JB. but ok, if it helps people understand the dissent a bit better.
Team Dissent!
this whole thing has made me think back to other shows i've loved and how i felt about their endings. it made me want to go back to the sopranos if only for being almost the complete opposite of this finale.. and the moral of that story felt more consistent, darker, more hard hitting. and of course the wire, even though the very last few minutes of it were kind of a hollywoodized token. i don't consider the latter statement a spoiler btw, that show could never truly end.
so assessing past finales.. they're really all mostly shit, now that i think of it. compared to what's come before, this was just good enough.
Team Good Enough!
I've been hearing comparisons to Lost's finale, which apparently people can just call a disappointment as if that's taken for granted now. That's something I've never understood, by the way. I recall crying like a baby at how beautiful and perfect it was.
Quote from: Pubrick on October 01, 2013, 04:19:33 PM
Team Dissent!
Couldn't hold myself.
Quote
this whole thing has made me think back to other shows i've loved and how i felt about their endings. it made me want to go back to the sopranos if only for being almost the complete opposite of this finale.. and the moral of that story felt more consistent, darker, more hard hitting. and of course the wire, even though the very last few minutes of it were kind of a hollywoodized token. i don't consider the latter statement a spoiler btw, that show could never truly end.
so assessing past finales.. they're really all mostly shit, now that i think of it. compared to what's come before, this was just good enough.
Team Good Enough!
Personally I avoid falling into obsession with specific show. I often drop series after first-second season (including BB). Discovering characters for very first time is the most enjoying thing - later on they stay the same (very common thing). There are some well written shows, that didn't run long (Terriers from FX is such more recent example). You can also burn yourself, when show goes down (Lost anyone?). Overall I don't pay much attentions to finales, yet I get a lot of fun from seeing solid TV.
Just good enough is exactly how I would describe this finale. When I say I was satisfied I think what I mean is it didn't ruin the entire series, and it wasn't laughably bad. I don't know if a show this good could ever live up to the high expectations people have (David Chase seemed aware of this), but at least Br Ba didn't completely blow it.
I feel like I need to go back and watch The Final 8 (or maybe even 16) with a critical eye now that I'm not watching it with my "just enjoying every last minute of Breaking Bad I have left" eye. I think perhaps they tried to cram in too much stuff. Like I said before, I think it's the M60 that fucked them. Who could that ever have been meant for if not the Nazi's or some other bunch of bad guys we don't really care about?
Thinking back, I wish it focused more on Walt V. Hank, Walt V. Jesse, and Walt V. Walt, and I wish Walt was punished more.
On a positive note, I think I'm finally over the fact that the entire series takes place over the course of just two years.
Fuck. I had issues with the finale (the absence of Jesse) but I enjoyed Felina. It wasn't the finale I expected an yet it was not surprising. But I listened to the Podcast. And Giligan disappoints me...
I'll try to express my feelings, and if they add nothing new or are stupid or obvious I don't care. It's a forum, not a compilation of brightness. Utopia is out. Xixan In.
The Mr Chips to Scarface is a nice catchphrase for the ones with money but that's all; Walt would never become Scarface. He's not. He's not the one who knocks. He's the one scared of Gus. He's not Jesse James. He's the one who wants to be. That's fascinating; Walt can't become Scarface. He thinks his worlds can't collide. He wants to keep the life he had, with Skyler and Flynn and breakfasts. I can have dirty millions and a family, I provide and You are safe! Then Hank dies. I imagine his millions melting in a barrel. Maybe with a body inside.
Anyway, Hank dies. He's done in Felina; he doesn't lie to himself, and doesn't care about being "the man" anymore. And he There's no pride in killing the nazis. They're crappy nazis. It's not Gus. Walt wins against crappy nazis. I would like to think that Giligan, like me, understand the lack of glory, but, again, the podcast...The M60 was a mistake. They thought he could be Scarface. And they needed the nazis for the M60. And fuck the nazis.
No pride and he can't have his family. Everything is gone. Who is Walt, now, then? He's The Cleaner. He's The Vacuum Cleaner and a Ghost. He makes things disappear. It comes from a weird obsession : loose-ends. Viewers (and I don't know who they are or if they exist, but the Viewers are important for Giligan) always discuss about loose-end when a show ends...But you shouldn't care about loose-ends or the Viewers because they may not even exist. I can understand the neat loose-ends killing spree because Walt became The Vacuum Cleaner.
I love the scene with Gretchen and Eliott but it doesn't make sense. Walt still stands with the need to give the money. He succeeds. But we know that the money wasn't necessary, that the need to give money at the first place didn't matter. I didn't think Walt was wining when he gave his money. Then : the podcast. "Oh, but it couldn't be all for nothing!" I said that Giligan wasn't God, but he thought he was...It was for nothing because they can't be happy. They're ruined...He can't be The Vaccum Cleaner if he doesn't understand this point. He needed to melt his millions. And his meth lab. And himself.
I hate that they offered Todd to Jesse. Like a gift.
But I love the last scene; I love that Walt loves his meth lab more than his children or his wife. In 5A, he says that his empire is everything he has because Skyler hates him and the children are away. Yes, he loves Flynn and Holly, but look how fully happy he is with his lab. He doesn't want to spend time with Jr. He doesn't spend that much time with him during the series. Tony Soprano spends more time with his son! I like the song too. It's funny. I loved that they weren't scared to be ridiculous. It was a love song for Walt and his lab. His work. Am I the only one to think that Walt died high at the end? His face and position are weird...He loved his work, but he didn't care about meth. Only about the product.
(We have Walt with his lab and Jesse with his box. I love Jesse with his box. I wanted more Jesse. Walt didn't need to talk with Skyler, I wanted to see Skyler without Walter. The phone call would be the last memory of her husband. They both knew it was about but it was hard. Skyler would still love Walt, in a way...)
Walt is a psycho, happier with his lab than his family. I don't know why they felt the need to give the money. I don't think Walt is victorious. But Giligan wanted to give something to Walt (the possibility to let the money to Flynn, a goodbye with Skyler) and to Jesse (Todd and freedom), it feels weird...
The Podcast is evil.
Not clear but it's not...
The saddest part with all of this is that soon the chatter in this thread will slowly die down. Shall we all buy the box set and start from scratch again, eh? :yabbse-grin:
I suggested last page we should start making favorite episode lists. Shall we?
Let's do it. Maybe top 5 favorites? Maybe folks could also explain in a few words why they love each episode?
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 01, 2013, 01:34:06 AM
I suggested last page we should start making favorite episode lists. Shall we?
Quote from: ©brad on October 01, 2013, 11:09:07 PM
Let's do it. Maybe top 5 favorites? Maybe folks could also explain in a few words why they love each episode?
the episodes that were your favorite will endure the longest, as always, by virtue of being your favorite. i'd like to hear the most cherished and a reason why! outsiders, all we're doing is reading, we could enjoy this, and one day in our future your fervor will mean way more to us than the vitriol from watchers against non-watchers (odd common trait). so i'm saying, big-kid tested, motherfucker approved (http://www.lyricsmania.com/21st_century_pop_song_lyrics_hymies_basement.html)
Here's five that came to me off the top of my head.
- Four Days Out - I love Jesse and Walt cooking together.
- One Minute - Hank in the parking lot, of course. One of the best action scenes ever filmed.
- Half Measures - Mike's monologue... RUN.
- Peekaboo - "I ain't no skank!"
- Confessions - Heisenberg at his nastiest, so many surprises.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 01, 2013, 11:04:50 PM
I suggested last page we should start making favorite episode lists. Shall we?
Why not. I might have to go back and watch a few first.
Also off the top of my head:
Phoenix - bye bye Jane
Granite State - I wish this episode was 4 episodes long
Fly - Who doesn't love a bottle episode? Apparently plenty of people, but I loved it.
Half Measure - RUN
Crawl Space - maniacal laughter
dedicated to trashy:
dude watches BB for the first time and tries to review it.. only episode he's watched is the finale (https://www.michigandaily.com/blog/filter/my-first-time-max-radwin-breaks-bad).
that's what you all sound like? huh. i'll have to consider. i haven't reviewed an episode, of course. i appreciated your standard pubrick comment, and i got to learn your name:
Eugene • 3 hours ago −
Wow. Do drugs much? I would recommend never writing another sentence as long as you live. Definitely not a fresh take. Start at the pilot, watch it, then kick yourself for writing this piece.
this is my favorite part:
Quote from: newbI miss the guy's name — let's just call him Wonderbread — but the woman's name I think is Gretchen. Regardless, both of them are boring, rich and white as shit. Kind of rooting for them to die.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbivision.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F05%2FWaltHispanic.jpg&hash=be8c9ff68245182ad017f56fb36ff4284609e8f2)
Meet Walter Blanco: 'Breaking Bad' Gets Spanish-Language Version
As Vince Gilligan's creation ends with record U.S. ratings, Sony TV preps a Colombian version -- but no RV this time.
Meet Walter Blanco. He's the flawed lead character in Metastasis, a new Colombian series from Sony Pictures Television with a bold premise: It's about this chemistry teacher who becomes a methamphetamine cook. It's Breaking Bad. In Spanish.
As U.S. fans of Vince Gilligan's Emmy-winning drama enter postfinale withdrawal, Sony and Colombian producer Teleset are hoping to hook Latin Americans on the story of Walter, partner Jose (Jesse), wife Cielo (Skyler) and brother-in-law -- and narcotics agent -- Henry Navarro (Hank).
"Breaking Bad is a fantastic series that wasn't widely seen in Latin America, partly because cable doesn't yet have full penetration in the region," says Angelica Guerra, SPT senior vp and managing director of production for Latin America and the U.S. Hispanic market. "[But] there is a universality to the story and its characters that we recognized could work very well."
Although Sony has sold Breaking Bad into more than 170 territories worldwide, the nature of the material (drug use, extreme violence) has made the original show a little-seen niche property in most countries. In the U.K., for instance, it was dropped after the second season but revived by Netflix.
Metastasis (a reference to metastasizing cancer) promises to be more mainstream, at least for Spanish speakers accustomed to such crime telenovelas as El Cartel and La Saga. SPT has presold the first season of Metastasis to all major Spanish-speaking markets across Latin America as well as to Univision's UniMas network in the U.S.
Sony insists no other foreign versions are in the works, but the company is an adaptations specialist, having done local-lingo takes on Everybody Loves Raymond for Russia and the Middle East and Married ... With Children in a dozen countries.
Guerra assures Breaking Bad devotees that producers have consulted with Gilligan and his team and that Metastasis will be true to its twisted source material. But a few minor details have been tweaked. "Motor homes are not popular in Colombia," she says, "so audiences will see Walter and Jose cooking up their first several batches of methamphetamine in an old, barely drivable school bus."
I want to do it, but making a top 5 episodes list is going to be hard. My instinct is just to pick episodes from late Season 4 through Season 5, because those are legitimately my favorites, and I feel like that's when the show really took things to a new level.
It would honestly be easier to pick favorite scenes. It's funny, I can't think of another show I could say that about. Maybe that's just how Breaking Bad works.
yeah, a top five is impossible, I already did a top ten but fave scenes sounds about right too.
in chronological order
01. Pilot - yes and f u if you didn't like it, the dynamic between Walt and Jesse is great from the start.
02. Crazy Handful of Nothin' - Heisenberg is born.
03. 4 Days Out - like a robot?...Walt and Jesse cooking is always fun.
04. One Minute - one of Jesse's best scenes at the hospital, and obviously hank vs the evil twins
05. Half Measures - RUN! what an ending.
06. Salud - I loved so much when Mike tells Jesse "I promise you this. Either we're all going home or none of us are."
07. Crawl Space - the last 10 minutes are one of he most tense moments ever filmed.
08. Live Free or Die - Magnets!
09. Dead Freight - Best Train heist ever.
10. To'hajiilee / Ozymandias - Can't separate these two, it was the pinnacle of br ba, pure brilliance.
Nothing like a reflective list such as that to further diminish the finale...
Quote from: Ghostboy on October 03, 2013, 02:30:49 AM
Nothing like a reflective list such as that to further diminish the finale...
Hah indeed.
My thoughts on the finale have been changing on almost a daily basis since it aired. I've been on team dissent the past few days although I still attest the dissenters are putting far too much weight on Walt's victories in the tragic grand scheme of things. I'm trying to look at the finale as consisting of the final 4 episodes and not just Felina and that makes me appreciate it more.
'Breaking Bad' Fans Take Out Walter White Obit in New Mexico Paper
Source: Variety
A group of devoted "Breaking Bad" fans took out an obituary in the Albuquerque Journal to mourn the loss of the main character of Walter White ... who is, of course, a fictional character.
According to the paper, David Layman and members of the Facebook group "Unofficial Breaking Bad Fan Tour" placed the obit to honor the main character of "Breaking Bad." The obit ran on A4 of today's paper.
Layman told the Journal, "I've been a humongous 'Breaking Bad' fan since the beginning. I was actually in the pilot, and putting the obit in the paper was fitting, because the series was based in Albuquerque and it provides some of us some closure."
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so, that's it? the finale was such a bad fucking trip we're not even discussing it anymore?
two things:
1. what about this guy? he makes a nice case of the finale working wonders and I think we could chip in on this. and check out how the commenters go after him because he says basically, that walter white is pathetic and that ending was perfect for him:
http://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/breaking-bad-series-finale-review-felina-season-5-episode-16/
2. maybe this goes to another thread. but pubrick mentioned the sopranos finale, and to me that is the best ending of any series so far. yet i went to the thread, and there's hardly any real discussion on the finale. nothing about the pov shots, nothing about the real meaning of that ending, nothing about how it was carefully and brilliantly set up from season 1 and it even becomes a philosophical statement on american culture in the XXI century...and mor eto the point? what makes an ending in a tv series a great ending??
Man I loved the conclusion, wasn't perfect but still. Feel like the odd one out here.
I've lost all desire to even try to legitimize how much I enjoyed the finale, and that's a damn shame because this was a unique moment in television history.
YOU'RE NOT ALONE.
Is uncle jack Jeremy Blackman's dad in Magnolia?
yes
Johnny come latelies love the finale, what a surprise.
Quote from: Pubrick on October 01, 2013, 09:57:16 AM
i feel like this finale was made to satisfy not so much the casual viewer, because they will take whatever they can get, and not the hardcore viewer, whom i consider [modage] and JB to be, but rather the less discerning viewer.
Quote from: Reelist on October 05, 2013, 12:53:37 AM
yes
holy FUCK that's how i knew him... what an amazing actor.
my top 5:
5.
No Mas 3.1
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this episode represents the peak of walt's self-rationalization in the form of the school assembly, which strikes me as a little bit contrived but still kind of perfect. his method of rationalization, using objective data, is so organic to walter white. the near-burning of the money and last-second retrieval of it is a great, simple manifestation of walt's guilt and his inability to turn away. fring plays the 'rational businessman' to perfection. i think this ep was probably the last time walt could've walked away and held onto a legit chunk of his humanity. a turning point. the news footage montage is also a really cool, seamless way to show walt connecting the dots between the plane and himself.
4.
Crawl Space 4.11
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.uproxx.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2Fwalter-white-laughing.gif&hash=c477603ae7a34ccf22275b0e04075d4fabaf54a3)
>why dost thou laugh? it fits not with this hour.
>why, i have not another tear to shedwho would think to write that cackle of sheer despair aside from shakespeare? the writers of bb apparently. cranston's execution of it is why he's so good.
this is a classic bb 'corner'... no hope. no possible way out.
and this (http://31.media.tumblr.com/0e19b446c20326e0298c731dc347176d/tumblr_mqr2rdCqhH1qzpxx1o1_1280.jpg) is a perfect example of how weirdly funny and simultaneously awful bb can b.
3.
...And the Bag's in the River 1.3
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flatebreakingbad.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F12%2Fbreaking-bad-plate-dan-toth.png&hash=0d47a8f2002bdd15e249c311c02402cc9b6b6b70)
when walt put the plate back together and discovered the missing piece i knew bb was a cut above. so clever. so conflicting. the list of pros and cons.. walt at the beginning of the episode relative to sitting in his car after his first kill would be enough of an arc for a movie. also features the earliest event in the bb timeline as its opening. and the walt/jessie dynamic is already so great.
2.
ABQ 2.13
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the plane explosion is one of the most brilliant and blindsiding (yet totally sensical) events in all of television, and delivers (what i thought was) the overall thesis of the show with 96% purity. walt's decisions ripple into the world in a way that's just indirect enough for him to justify more cooking in season 3.
1.
Ozymandias/Granite State 5.14-15
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there may be a recency bias at play and putting them together is a bit of a copout but i've never been more moved by and invested in individual episodes of television. the skylar phone call is probably the best scene because it's so piercing and clever and complicated. five years built to these. "goodbye to everyone" is on the nose but so wonderfully tonally ironic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14PejsN99ng
and invoking the extended version of the theme song for the first and only time as granite state comes to an end, setting the stage for the finale, could not have excited me more.
^ Awesome post. Those short write-ups are better than most recaps I've read of this show as of late.
Quote from: Pubrick on October 05, 2013, 07:07:28 AM
Johnny come latelies love the finale, what a surprise.
Quote from: Pubrick on October 01, 2013, 09:57:16 AM
i feel like this finale was made to satisfy not so much the casual viewer, because they will take whatever they can get, and not the hardcore viewer, whom i consider [modage] and JB to be, but rather the less discerning viewer.
What would the more discerning viewer like to have seen in the finale instead? Not an attack, just might be fun to hear what team dissent would do as showrunner. Had the series ended with say Granite State, with Walt in that bar not seeing Gretchen and whatshisfuck on TV, rather just him surrounded by cops drinking the whiskey, or him dying in the cabin, or....?
Quote from: ©brad on October 05, 2013, 08:08:00 PMWhat would the more discerning viewer like to have seen in the finale instead? Not an attack, just might be fun to hear what team dissent would do as showrunner. Had the series ended with say Granite State, with Walt in that bar not seeing Gretchen and whatshisfuck on TV, rather just him surrounded by cops drinking the whiskey, or him dying in the cabin, or....?
My ideal ending: At the end of Granite State, Walt is beginning to snap (which certainly seemed plausible), and he does things in the finale that force the viewers to question their relationship with Walter White. That in my mind is the greatest missed opportunity, and it still saddens me that they did the opposite. But like I've said, this is personal taste.
Alternatively, he tries to have victories but finds himself cornered or in even more trouble, and he is punished further. This would be inferior to my first option, but still better than the finale that aired.
I would still be okay with Walt freeing Jesse (perhaps inadvertently), but I would have preferred Jesse getting out of that himself. Maybe a chemical reaction, foreshadowed by the Nazis' distaste for gas masks. (I expressed my hope for that one before the finale.)
Quote from: picolas on September 30, 2013, 12:47:19 AM
[the white family are] hugely rewarded for walt's actions and murders. i mean, they absolutely deserve compensation but for walt to give them the money is undoing what the show is about, i think. and it makes walt feel like he's still a good dude at the end of the day. again i'm fine with him realizing his wrongs and taking out the remains of his empire, but rewarding his family so hard is a copout.
Addressing that which appears in pics post and has also been echoed by countless others (team dissent/podcast). this notion that these characters "deserve" a certain ending is not only old fashioned and boring, it's also just completely unrealistic. I think this show is honest in dealing with luck as far as fortune and misfortune are involved, and those two forces couldn't care less about what a person deserves.
I'm sure this is far too obvious but, I view Walt's confrontation with Elliott and Gretchen in the finale as merely a superficial victory for Walt.
And, no i don't mean this in a, "money is material," type of way. I mean, Walt believes his money will go to them, and that's enough to give him peace. Because there is so much wreckage that he must look through in order to see that silver lining, it makes the plan so brilliant, he's accepted his fate, as Heisenburg, not as Walter White. Don't you see? It's all so tragic, Walt is content with NOT SEEING THAT PLAN THROUGH, because he knows that is not an option.
To me this is the brilliant part about it all. He came up with a sneaky plan to give them money through a legitimate platform, and this is what some of you have shown appreciation for, however, he intentionally sets his plan up to where he isn't going to see that act through, which is why he wants to speak his peace to his family and give Skyler the most closure that language allows in his case and also the lotto ticket.
Because after all, we can't forget that his grand plan, which was already in motion at that point, would inevitably involve his death. He knew this. His plan was to kill everyone including himself. That's what the beat is for when he sees Jesse, the plan changes right then and there. Do you really think his plan involved anything that took place after he saw jesse and decided to save his life? He also couldn't have known/planned or predicted to fade away in middle a meth lab he stumbled upon, making it look that certain way that a few of you have complained about (aka luck).
For one to say that the finale doesn't align itself with the rest of the series seems trivial, and here's why; the verdict was still out about what the show would ultimately be about. To put this another way, the show was about certain things previously, and maybe that was more interesting to you, but that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about the series and what actually happens. Not what you gathered from a few interviews etc and thought the show was about. It was probably about those things too. I'm certain this is all far too pragmatic for most, but that's my interpretation and reaction to your interpretations, if such a discussion is even possible.
Quote from: Neil on October 06, 2013, 05:35:26 PM
For one to say that the finale doesn't align itself with the rest of the series seems trivial, and here's why; the verdict was still out about what the show would ultimately be about.
I disagree with this. I think a properly written show's central themes are established before the finale. BUT, just to play devil's advocate, if that's the case what would you say
is the final verdict? What were the central themes of the show that the finale defined/delivered on?
I'm among those who think Walt only won cause his own soul has been compromised to point that only he can see it as a win. I'm trying to see this from the "dissenters" point of view. That the finale didn't fully punish Walt. That the finale took the position that crime does pay which is conflicting from the series themes/message.
I'm thinking about the entire series and when have they ever set up that crime doesn't pay? Walt became a success. Gus was a success. Crazy 8 and tuco were successful. While we all came to see Hank as a great DEA agent, he never arrested and put anyone in jail. From Crazy 8 to Walt, They all have gotten away with it and were successful until someone killed them. I'm trying to see when they set up that crime doesn't pay.
What Breaking Bad did set up was that crime does pay but that innocence pays the price for it. We've seen multiple times that an innocent life is lost to sacrifice to continuation of an evil life. I think the finale should be viewed keeping in mind the entire series. It shouldn't stand alone. While you may see the finale as an individual/single disappointment, if you view the entire series as a whole you see a show about the loss of innocence. And for JB asking for an ending that questions our support for Walt, think about Jane, 167 deaths on the plane, Gale, Andrea's brother, Andrea, motorbike kid, Walt's family, Brock, and so on. While the finale may not have made you confront your support of Walt, the entire series did enough to make you question it.
Quote from: Tictacbk on October 06, 2013, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 06, 2013, 05:35:26 PM
For one to say that the finale doesn't align itself with the rest of the series seems trivial, and here's why; the verdict was still out about what the show would ultimately be about.
I disagree with this. I think a properly written show's central themes are established before the finale. BUT, just to play devil's advocate, if that's the case what would you say is the final verdict? What were the central themes of the show that the finale defined/delivered on?
I completely agree with you, but I don't find this to be the ONLY way a series MUST take place. Sure, some great TV/Film has followed this formula, and has been a success in doing so, but to me that is a bit too absolute for my liking. I don't believe that there is only one way to tell a story "properly," or only one way to make a great TV show/statement, because life just isn't like that and you're going to hear me say that a lot with regards to this show.
Life doesn't always present nice and neat themes to you early on, only to be fully realized at some later time. Closure is a made up idea that people decided was a good plot device to include in the medium we're discussing. I understand wanting something you don't get in life, but like i said, this shouldn't be considered the only way.
The themes that were established early on are still important, but maybe perhaps with regards to the given season in which they appear, and they still play an important role in setting up the BB universe, if only for the fact that they exist in the consciousness of these characters, or make up their past. In my opinion, despite my desire to back this statement up with another viewing of the entire series, BB is like most shows in that, each season is about something different while we grow (or die) with these characters.
The 1st season says nothing about how breaking bad is a good thing, if Walt is rewarded, it's because of luck and he was thrust into this predicament via misfortune, or being unlucky (cancer) in the first place so that seems pretty consistent. As a matter of fact, immediately after he starts his new path towards "breaking bad," it leads to two murders in the first two episodes. So, I'm not sure where this crime pays bit comes in, unless you're specifically talking about finances. If you folks were unaware of the fact that the black market affords you the opportunity to make more money at a much quicker rate than most legitimate professions, then I'm not really sure what to tell you. Do i need to mention that the black market is dangerous too?
I think that the premise of the show is not that, "crime pays," but rather that power corrupts to the core. Not to mention that if a man with too much pride gets a taste of power, there's some dark things that can come out of this. To me, one of the first indicators of this theme is when Walt misses his daughter's birth. The corruption of one through gaining power is consistent with Hank's arc too.
With this being said, most of you are right about the show all the way up until Skyler and Walt's last conversation. That conversation is a shift in Walt's character, and this should not be looked over. After that, we see the shell of a man. He didn't want to succeed in murder and ruthlessness but his pride blocked his ability to see this. That's why I think the finale is so tragic, he knows there's no point to live, but he couldn't die without exposing his selfishness to his family. The people he spent so much time claiming he was doing it FOR. He realizes that his actions were completely selfish and that's the tonal shift of the show. We see a new Walt and this new Walt sees no purpose in buying into the lie, about it all being for a good reason.
There's so much more i'd like to say, but i'm tired of typing.
I've been off this site for quite some time, but I'm dying to read everyone's reactions to the last few episodes.
Before I go back what appears to be twenty or more pages, I'll leave my Breaking Bad Finale "story" and a brief summary of my thoughts on the series overall.
I perform Sunday nights so I can't watch the show live, but some others in the same boat all agree to stay off the internet and meet up a couple hours later and watch it on DVR. We had been doing an amazing job at all staying away from anything that would spoil the smallest plot point.
By the time we got to the finale, we had accumulated about ten devoted people to watch in complete silence. We all agreed to just hit play and shut up...
unfortunately, the DVR had also, for some reason recorded TALKING BAD (the worst show in the world where people just tell you what happened in a show you just watched and then they say "wow" a bunch).
Now, we're not dummies, we IMMEDIATELY saw that Mike, the host of the evening, had accidentally started Talking Bad (which shows up listed under Breaking Bad episodes for the dumbest reason ever). We all yelled "THIS IS TALKING BAD! THIS IS TALKING BAD!". Mike realized that grabbing for the remote and fumbling for the stop button would take too long, instead he leapt through the air and turned the T.V. off and we all sighed in relief and agreed that most did not comprehend the still from the episode that was being displayed (though I had a good feeling I knew what it was).
Mike sits back down, grabs the remote and turns the T.V. on. Yes, this is Mike's mistake... he didn't stop the DVR before doing this... the T.V. was back on for less than a second... enough for Chris Hardwick, ruiner of worlds, to say four words... "Walter White is Dead".
I'm surprised that at this point, Mike's neighbors did not call the police about a possible homicide as we all began to scream and punch things. Personally, I ran into the Kitchen and yelled "Nooooooooooo! Whyyyyyyyyyyy!" then ran back into the living room to scream at Mike "Why would you leave it on that channel! Why would you do that?"
Of course, it took a couple minutes for us all to calm down and agree that we were all pretty sure that was going to be how the series ended anyway and that it was kind of funny that in the half second that the TV was on Talking Bad, the four most spoilery words came out. It took us another five minutes to all apologize to Mike for yelling at him.
Other than the DVR having to reboot right as Walter's MacGuyver gun started firing, the rest of the show went amazingly. Everything that needed to happen, happened. I loved the end because it resisted the urge to pull the rug out one last time (which is why a lot of people didn't like the finale... boneheads).
After the episode ended, as we sat in silence, soaking it in, "Talking Bad" began to play and we got the full statement from Chris Hardwick: "If you're just now tuning in on your DVR and you haven't watched the episode yet, please press stop right now. We will be discussing this important episode... Walter White is dead".
We just missed the warning.
Haha, wow that must have been angering. Fuckin' Mike.
Quote from: Brando on October 07, 2013, 02:30:00 AMI'm among those who think Walt only won cause his own soul has been compromised to point that only he can see it as a win.
I've never bought the argument that it was some kind of dark and twisted win. For the simple reason that so much of it was redemptive for Walt and set things right to such a great extent. (Seriously, go back and review that list.) I know what a dark and twisted win looks like, and this is definitely not it.
I just don't buy that Walt is in some kind of evil-deluded state that is making him interpret the end of his life as a big win. I don't see how one could take that away from watching the episode. He is intensely aware of the things he's lost; it's apparent in his visit to Skyler. He also understands that he did it primarily for himself, which he admits to Skyler. He is able to hold both of those ideas in his mind and conscience at the same time. He's presented as a fairly rational, sober, and morally aware person.
Quote from: Brando on October 07, 2013, 02:30:00 AMI'm thinking about the entire series and when have they ever set up that crime doesn't pay? Walt became a success. Gus was a success. Crazy 8 and tuco were successful. While we all came to see Hank as a great DEA agent, he never arrested and put anyone in jail. From Crazy 8 to Walt, They all have gotten away with it and were successful until someone killed them. I'm trying to see when they set up that crime doesn't pay.
What Breaking Bad did set up was that crime does pay but that innocence pays the price for it. We've seen multiple times that an innocent life is lost to sacrifice to continuation of an evil life.
What the finale violates in the Breaking Bad universe is the principle that "actions have consequences." I don't know how many times I've heard that phrase from Vince Gilligan.
Ozymandias and Granite State delivered those consequences. The finale largely took them back. That is the problem.
"Punishment" is probably the wrong word. It's about consequences, disaster, wreckage, and showing exactly what a horrible decision it was to break bad. The finale was their opportunity to seal the deal, but they decided to go in the opposite direction and resolve as many things as possible.
Quote from: Brando on October 07, 2013, 02:30:00 AMI think the finale should be viewed keeping in mind the entire series. It shouldn't stand alone.
But unfortunately it sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn't it, because it reversed the trajectory of the entire show.
Quote from: Brando on October 07, 2013, 02:30:00 AMAnd for JB asking for an ending that questions our support for Walt, think about Jane, 167 deaths on the plane, Gale, Andrea's brother, Andrea, motorbike kid, Walt's family, Brock, and so on. While the finale may not have made you confront your support of Walt, the entire series did enough to make you question it.
Yet he remained the protagonist, and they put him in full protagonist mode in the finale. They did everything they could to build our sympathies back up for the finale, even starting with parts of Ozymandias. The next step would have been to at least do some light rug-pulling, and deliver a conclusion to the series that was at least mildly confrontational. Instead, it was sort of a toothless crowd-pleaser that tried to develop our sympathies for Walt even further. Don't you see that as inconsistent, or at the very least a peculiar choice?
The theme of "actions have consequences" reached its climax in "Ozymandias," when Hank dies. That was the point of no return, the absolute low point in Walt's arc, where everything he's done has finally had an irreversible effect on the one thing he was sure he would be able to protect, his family. THAT moment, and the subsequent repudiation by his wife and son, was Walt's ultimate cosmic punishment for breaking bad.
If it had ended right there, you would have gotten that pure unsullied thematic conclusion that you were hoping for, but the story would have been incomplete. Because as the last two episodes showed, Vince Gilligan is not the angry Old Testament god the finale-bashers seem to think he should be, casting firm and final judgment on his character. The story was not simply about a man who does the wrong thing and ultimately gets punished for it. It goes beyond that; it's also a story about the possibility for redemption. It asks the question: can someone go so far wrong and still come back and make it right again? And the answer it ends up with is... kind of.
That's beautiful and complex to me. That's not fan-service, vacillation, or a cop-out. That's fucking nuance. It's storytelling at the highest level.
I don't expect to change any minds at this point. If someone's decided the ending doesn't work for them, it doesn't work for them. But I'm tired of being told that the only reason the ending worked for me is because I didn't understand it, or I was never a close enough watcher of the show. The ending worked because it works.
Redemption is emphatically not the ending I wanted. It's that simple. I feel like granting that partial redemption to Walter White, turning this suddenly into a redemption story, violates the spirit of the show. What makes it all the more frustrating is that it was so concentrated in the final episode.
Even if I wanted redemption for Walt, I can't imagine being satisfied with the sort of contrived checklist-style way it was delivered.
Considering Walt's partial redemption to be beautiful nuance is I guess a valid interpretation, but it certainly didn't have that effect for me. And it seems abundantly clear (from the episode itself and from Vince's many words about it) that this ending was written not for the sake of nuance or complexity, but to be crowd-pleasing and humane, to tie up loose ends, and to provide general resolution.
I fully admit to having wanted something entirely different from the end of the show. I was in fact broadcasting that bias weeks in advance. This ending just doesn't work for me. And yes... I think at this point I've run out of new ways to rephrase it.
This is why those damn podcasts are so toxic. There is always going to be a disconnect between the intent of a creator and the result of the creation. It would be both impossible and foolish to try and mandate an ultimate theme upon the story in the middle of its telling, especially in a long-form medium like a television series. When a writer tells you what their story is about before the story is complete, that can only be taken as a best guess, an objective. But the writer talking about the story is not the story itself, and it's a mistake to see discongruity between the two and take that to mean the talking about the story was right and the story is wrong.
To me, the partial redemption is so out of touch with what had come before it would be like after watching Daniel Plainview be a monster for 2+ hours, at the end of the film he apologizes to his son for being selfish and buys Eli's land to send him on his way.
Patiently waiting for TWBB alternate ending.
I've lost track of the discussion.
Well how much do you folks think intentions play into this? Like Walter's purpose?
Hmm, Walt accepts and admits to what he's done in the past, he tries to tie up loose ends but has no intention of truly (morally) redeeming himself. This is Walter White trying to neaten things up before he inevitably goes (which was the entire basis of those early seasons). He's grim and composed in Felina, completely understanding of the situation/the past. The other characters don't see that he's trying to redeem himself, nor could they accept him anyway.
Quote from: Lottery on October 08, 2013, 09:09:33 AM
I've lost track of the discussion.
let me summarise it for you:
Quote from: polkablues on October 08, 2013, 01:02:16 AM
This is why those damn podcasts are so toxic. There is always going to be a disconnect between the intent of a creator and the result of the creation. It would be both impossible and foolish to try and mandate an ultimate theme upon the story in the middle of its telling, especially in a long-form medium like a television series. When a writer tells you what their story is about before the story is complete, that can only be taken as a best guess, an objective. But the writer talking about the story is not the story itself, and it's a mistake to see discongruity between the two and take that to mean the talking about the story was right and the story is wrong.
I understand your point, but a darker ending seems inherently superior to me and more consistent with the spirit of the show, regardless of what the writers have said.
That's the only reason I ever got excited about the expectations they were setting; they seemed to be headed for a bold and satisfying conclusion that would have been so perfect for Breaking Bad.
The real incongruity is entirely within the show. The expectation setting augmented that.
Quote from: modage on October 08, 2013, 05:50:02 AM
To me, the partial redemption is so out of touch with what had come before it would be like after watching Daniel Plainview be a monster for 2+ hours, at the end of the film he apologizes to his son for being selfish and buys Eli's land to send him on his way.
Except Walter White wasn't a monster for the entire series, he was a good man who made a bad decision and subsequently evolved into a monster as a result.
I still don't see anything that happens in the finale as redemptive, as Walt is so past that point. Getting his family the money might be a redemptive act in his own twisted world view, but the family made it clear they don't want it and it's certainly not going to bring Hank back or rid them of this horrible legacy they'll live with their entire lives.
Yeah, I don't see the end as that Redemptive. I think Walt accepts how terrible he's become, but he has to finish his mission. Sure, he decides to save Jesse at the last minute, but that's because he's not pure evil. He's still a horrible man.
Partial redemption. That's the key phrase... which I was careful to use twice in my earlier post, and which modage used too. That's also what I gathered from Polka's post... so I think we're on the same page. (The finale does in fact have some nuance.) Of course Walt is far from any kind of full redemption, we all agree on that, but he is allowed many minor redemptions in the finale that of course add up to partial redemption.
I guess I'll repost my list of victories from several pages ago and highlight the redemptive bits.
Full disclosure, I said at the time and still believe that it was more victorious than redemptive, but there's no denying the partial redemption.
And considering what a monster Walt has been, they really had to try hard to accomplish it. Sometimes in a fairly hamfisted way. Perhaps the one that annoyed me the most was the writers simply erasing the beautiful moral complexity of the Ozymandias phone call. The tension and agony in that scene when Walt had to say those things to Skyler was amazing, and he was literally allowed to take that back in this episode.
1. Walt finds the keys as if through divine intervention. I know it's sort of a joke, but it's an indication of things to come.
2. Laundering the money through Gretchen and Elliot was brilliant. How many car washes would they have needed to accomplish that? Quite a comeback considering the impossible money situation in Granite State. A significant victory... and they essentially devote the first 18 minutes of the episode to it.
3. Walt completely fools Lydia and Todd. Poisons Lydia AND successfully schedules the confrontation with the Nazis.
4. Walt successfully builds the M60 robot without complications.
5. Walt gets to say goodbye to Skyler in a humane way and apologize for the harshness of the phone call. (Bonus redemption points.)
6. Walt officially achieves self-actualization.
7. Walt gets to say goodbye to Holly and share an emotional moment with Skyler, who seems compassionate toward him, as if to cue the audience. (Bonus redemption points.)
8. Walt pulls off one last epic caper, successfully killing the Nazis with the M60, achieving vengeance.
9. Walt gets that phone call with Lydia and gets to break the news to her, which he relishes.
10. Walt has now successfully disposed of the Nazis and Lydia, ensuring his family's safety. (Bonus redemption points.)
11. Walt has the opportunity to free Jesse and takes it. They even share that final nod of understanding, which is almost meant to reverse the nod Walter gave when he consented to Jesse's torture and imprisonment. Jesse in this moment is even more expressively sympathetic than I originally remembered. Seriously, check it out again. He's almost giving Walt this look like "Yeah, I get it. At least you made it right." (Massive bonus redemption points.)
12. Walt got to die in his sacred place, nearly euphoric with nostalgia. Taking credit for the ongoing blue meth production, preserving his legacy. He got to go out as a legend.
I know I'm not going to convince you and there is so much discussion since the episode aired that it has blended in my brain so I'm sure I'm just digging stuff up that's already been talked to death, but...
2. Again, I don't think this is redemption. This is part of Walt's mission. He just wants to make sure he gives his son the money so he THREATENS THE LIVES of his friends to force them to essentially break the law for him. He's dragging them down with him. Doesn't count as redemption to me... just another asshole move on his way to his selfish goal.
5. Is a deathbed confession really redemption? He's admitting that he realizes how terrible he is and fully embracing it. I'll give Walt a deathbed confession to his wife... it's still selfish.
7. Just goes with 5. When 5 happens, you have to allow this one... otherwise everyone would call bullshit. It also helps make it extra sad.
10. This is what NEEDS to happen! Otherwise, there's no ending. This isn't the Sopranos... this is pulp-drama, we need an actual ending. You want the Nazis to live and then kill his family? That's dark for dark's sake and (to me) cheap.
11. This is the closest to redemption and I think it just falls under the whole "too chicken to put down your dog" thing. Walt has always made poor emotional choices and that's what was going on when he originally asked the Nazis to kill Jesse. He's had some time to sit on it now and is making a different decision.
I'll agree that some of this can be seen as mildly redemptive, but I guess I don't care if there's a hint of it to get to what needs to happen for the ending.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 08, 2013, 05:16:19 PM5. Walt gets to say goodbye to Skyler in a humane way and apologize for the harshness of the phone call. (Bonus redemption points.)
Does he explicitly apologize for the phone call? I don't remember that. In fact he does the exact opposite. He admits he "liked it." And she never forgives him. A redemptive moment here would be him giving one of his bullshit "I'm sorry but everything I did was for you guys" speeches, and Skylar accepting that. The exact opposite happens.
Quote from: ©brad on October 08, 2013, 08:44:38 PMDoes he explicitly apologize for the phone call?
"It's over... and I needed a proper goodbye. Not our last phone call."
I definitely read that as an apology for the phone call. Supported by his body language. He looks pathetic, mopey, apologetic. At the very least deeply regretful that he had to sound so harsh in that phone call.
So yeah, that was probably one of the top 3 cringe moments of the episode for me, because of how much I loved the original Ozymandias scene.
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 08, 2013, 06:54:53 PM2. Again, I don't think this is redemption. This is part of Walt's mission. He just wants to make sure he gives his son the money so he THREATENS THE LIVES of his friends to force them to essentially break the law for him. He's dragging them down with him. Doesn't count as redemption to me... just another asshole move on his way to his selfish goal.
I didn't count it as redemption originally (just a victory), because of the very points you bring up. But as an afterthought, you have to admit it is mildly redemptive that he will be able to get more money to his family than he ever could have imagined. And that he's going to all this trouble to do it.
His motives and methods are deeply suspect of course, but the result is impressive. That is a massive amount of money laundered in one fell swoop. He's finally providing for his family, and since he's made it so they'll be in the dark, they won't feel guilty about it.
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 08, 2013, 06:54:53 PM5. Is a deathbed confession really redemption? He's admitting that he realizes how terrible he is and fully embracing it. I'll give Walt a deathbed confession to his wife... it's still selfish.
You're actually responding to my #6, Walt's self-actualization. I counted that as a victory, not redemption. But he still has sadness in his eyes when he says it, so I don't really read it as cold-blooded. He's not confronting her and saying "deal with it." He's obviously sad. And being truthful with her for once. Anyway, I would
still not count that part as redemption.
Number 5 is absolutely redemptive. He wanted to say goodbye to his wife in a more humane and gentle way. He almost says that.
Skyler then basically asks him to protect her from the Nazis, and he's all like, oh don't worry I got this. "They're not coming back. Not after tonight." This leads into #10.
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 08, 2013, 06:54:53 PM7. Just goes with 5. When 5 happens, you have to allow this one... otherwise everyone would call bullshit. It also helps make it extra sad.
I don't understand why Skyler needed to be so compassionate, or why the writers needed to grant him that goodbye with Holly (she didn't have to be there), unless we the audience are to understand how much Walt has changed since he kidnapped Holly two episodes ago. I understand why it's nice for that to happen, but I did not want the finale of Breaking Bad to have all of these nice things, and so much mending. Again, personal taste.
Quote from: RegularKarate on October 08, 2013, 06:54:53 PM10. This is what NEEDS to happen! Otherwise, there's no ending.
I'm just saying that ensuring his family's safety is redemptive. Do you disagree?
I'm not arguing that every little redemptive plot point should have been stripped out. Killing Nazis and protecting his family is fine, saving Jesse is fine, but it just keeps going, and altogether they do add up to partial redemption.
Oliver Stone Slams "Ridiculous" Violence In 'Breaking Bad' Finale
BY THE DEADLINE TEAM
[SPOILER WARNING!] Not every Breaking Bad-watcher had glowing praise for last week's historic, ratings-grabbing finale. Oliver Stone jumped on the Bad wagon just in time to see Walter White's saga conclude in its fifth season. "I happen to not watch the series very much, but I happened to tune in and I saw the most ridiculous 15 minutes of a movie — it would be laughed off the screen," he said while promoting his Showtime docu series The Untold History of the United States. Then the director went off in detail on the episode's violent culmination.
Said Natural Born Killers and Savages helmer Stone, playing pop culture critic on the show's bullet-ridden "fantasy violence": "Nobody could park his car right then and there and could have a machine gun that could go off perfectly and kill all of the bad guys! It would be a joke. It's only in the movies that you find this kind of fantasy violence. And that's infected the American culture; you young people believe all of this shit! Batman and Superman, you've lost your minds, and you don't even know it! At least respect violence. I'm not saying don't show violence, but show it with authenticity."
ALL ABOARD THE IRRELEVANT TRAIN!
He's been irrelevant since NBK. The violence in the last scene of Scarface is ridiculous. And a fucking overrated movie as well.
Criticizing violence in Breaking Bad? Go back to season 3 and the Cousins - characters almost taken from cartoon and going about killing people in silly ways. I could listen to that, but Stone is just searching for limelight right now.
"I happen to not watch the series very much, but I happened to tune in and (...)" - this screams trolling.
Quote from: Christian on October 09, 2013, 02:07:10 AM
He's been irrelevant since NBK. The violence in the last scene of Scarface is ridiculous. And a fucking overrated movie as well.
any given sunday is the tits. he didn't direct scarface.
Nixon is also a masterpiece. Yes, it's not considered "relevant", but it's a masterpiece.
About the finale.
Obviously no one read the article I linked. I don't fully agree with it but some of the things that are mentioned haven't, so far, been mentioned here.
The two most important things are:
*Walter asking Jesse to kill him.
The most common reading of this action is that Walter is aiming for redemption by first saving Jesse and then giving him the chance for revenge. First, to me, yes he saves Jesse, but that's not part of the plan. It's a spur of the moment thing. He goes there expecting to kill him, he believes Jesse is an associate of the nazis and cooks for them. When he sees him beat up and turned into an animal, he understands what happened and tries to save him...or is he just using him to make his movie and create chaos while the M60 fires in all directions? Then he asks Jesse to kill him. Now, this is your standard Walter White asshole move regarding Jesse, which is manipulation for his own benefit and dragging Jesse down to his evil intentions. All through the series Walter is the devil tempting Jesse to be bad, and Jesse always ends up coming back to him and directly or indirectly, helping him out. When Jesse says no here, it frees him forever of Walter White.
About Walter, this is not a sympathetic move at all. If the aim is to make him look endearing, you would have to be as nuts as he to see it that way. Walter is a sociopath (I said this before), which means all he does is to satisfy his own needs and desires, and he doesn't care about anything or anyone else. Yes, he does all these "good" deeds in the last episode, but they're only good if you are crazy and no one enjoys their happening more than him.
*The second thing the article mentions is the self realization of Walter in the finale, which for him is heroic, but looked from the outside is pathetic. Walter believes he is a criminal mastermind. Heisenberg and shit. But he isn't. He never was. One of the things that always bothered me about the show (but now I admire) is that Walter never fully became a gangster. Every time he tried to act like one in the same scene with other real criminals, he looked like a geek. When he asks the Nazis to kill Jesse and is there negotiating a fee, you never get the sense of him having the upper hand, it always feels like he's too lucky because if any of the criminals who are after him see through him, they will kill him. In the last episode we see Walter as he truly is: just a lowlife criminal doing lowlife criminal things. As the article points out, he does this small time criminal acts, stealing a car, breaking in a residence, poisoning an associate (redemption!)...Walter White is a man who has spent his life being a victim of his bad luck, when he gets cancer, he decides to act as the master of his own destiny and forge a dignified ending for his life. This is his arc as a character. In the end, he achieves it. But this image he made for himself and which makes him smile as he dies is not that great anyway. What he sees at the end is that he was only really good as a meth cook. He failed as a father, as a husband, as a teacher, and of course as Heisenberg. He did not win anything. He smiles because he dies in the only place where he could function. Whatever Vince Gilligans says, this is the real image of the guy. When the cops arrive at the end, I notice in the overhead shot that Walter is lying there and the cops pass him, they keep going to look for something else. Well, he's dead, but he's also already forgotten. There is no legacy here, no one cares about blue meth or anything of the sorts.
Now, about the money. Can someone explain to me please why is such a sure thing that those two will make good on their "promise" of delivering the money? When Walter shows up dead why would they care? Because he told them "no matter what happens with me tomorrow these two hitmen will be following you" or whatever? Really?? That's been bothering me since the episode aired. That's no plan, not in this series or in any criminal story. They can simply wait on it and then burn the money, they can keep it, they can give it to other charities...I don't know...when this happened I thought "well, I guess Walt is not really thinking this one through".
I saw the whole series and never read a review or comments from anyone except here at xixax. Never listened to podcasts of course. I was unaware of how in love some fans are with Walter White. In the article when the writer says Walter is pathetic for dying like that, some commenters get offended and see the guy as a hero. This makes me understand why there is such concern among some people here that Walter's final actions and the series conclusion are interpreted as heroic, or that "actions have no consequences". I understand but really, who cares what those people think? As I said, you really have to be crazy or just not see things with clarity to see Walter as something other than a very very very disturbed individual. His selfishness never gave way to something more meaningful. in fact, his moment of clarity is recognizing that he is a selfish bastard.
Quote from: socketlevel on October 09, 2013, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: Christian on October 09, 2013, 02:07:10 AM
He's been irrelevant since NBK. The violence in the last scene of Scarface is ridiculous. And a fucking overrated movie as well.
any given sunday is the tits. he didn't direct scarface.
I know but he wrote the screenplay.
he's talking about violence depiction and believability, for all we know the screenplay said "Tony montana exits his bedroom with a gun, shoots and it gunned down." then depalma made it the speghetti western crazy shit show it became.
Quote from: socketlevel on October 09, 2013, 02:39:47 PM
he's talking about violence depiction and believability, for all we know the screenplay said "Tony montana exits his bedroom with a gun, shoots and it gunned down." then depalma made it the speghetti western crazy shit show it became.
Or Oliver Stone could just be a hypocritical scrotum, as the case may be:
Quote from: Scarface ScreenplayThere's been a steady pounding and calling now on the door
of the office. Tony finally hears it, looks up, then over
at the monitors.
One of them reveals Chi-Chi standing there outside the door
pounding it.
CHI-CHI
Boss ! Hey boss. Open up!
On the monitor we see Chi-Chi suddenly spin and open fire
down into the foyer. Return fire decimates him. A grenade
goes off, blows him up against the door.
TONY
Cheeee!
He now seems to come out of his catatonia, runs to his
sideboard, hauls out a rocket shoulder-fired rocket
launcher and straps an Uzi across his shoulder. He looks
up at the monitor.
On the monitors, the hitters are now darting across the
foyer and coming up the left and right hand stairs.
Three of them are already huddled outside the door, around
the corpse of Chi-Chi, motioning to-each other, laying a
grenade at the base of the door to blow it out.
Tony loading his rocket, ihtends to beat them to the punch,
talking to himself.
TONY
So you wanna play hunh, say hello
to my little friend here.
Karroooomph!
The rocket tears down the door and blows the Columbian
punks off the landing into the foyer. It sounds like
Armageddon, one of the hitters screaming, smoke billowing
wildly.
Tony, at the height of his mad glory, steps out at the apex
of the stairs, firing his machine gun and yelling.
CONTINUED
#02X4 166-A
Rev. 12/21/82
226 c0NT1NuED- 3
226
TONY
Whores! Cowards! You think you
can kill me with lousy bullets hunh?
He CONTINUED
#02154 167
Rev 11/26/82
226 CONTINUED - 3
f- 22
Another hitter tumbles down the right-hand stair.
TONY
Who you think I am? I kill all you
fuckin' assholes. I take you all to
fuckin' hell!
Left. Right
Another hitter drops, screaming, off the stairs into the
pool below.
A grenade goes off. Tony is hit again, but keeps on firing
away. Laughing like a madman.
TONY
You need an army you hear! An army
to kill me!
Behind him we see the remainder of the pound of cocaine go
up in a burst of wind, whipping around the office in auras
of white. It is a ghostly effect out of which now appears
the face of the Skull moving from the terrace towards _
Tony's back with a sawed-off shotgun.
TONY
Ha ha ha ha ha! You whores, you
scum, I piss in your faces !!!! Ha
ha ha ha ha!!
The Skull, now inches from Tony's back, pulls the trigger
and blows Tony's spine out his belly.
Tony crashes forward over the bannister into the interior
swimming pool below.
He floats quietly face down in the lit blue waters.
As the titles begin their crawl up, the music theme is
expressive salsa with a dash of gaiety.
The camera moving off Tony to catch the reflection of the
lit sculpture on the surface of the still waters. It says:
"THE WORLD IS YOURS"
And so, for the brief moment, it was.
Anthony Hopkins Gushes Over 'Breaking Bad' Star Bryan Cranston in Fan Letter
"Your performance as Walter White was the best acting I have seen -- ever," Hopkins writes.
Source: THR
Count Anthony Hopkins among the legions of Breaking Bad fans who couldn't get enough of the show.
Just over two weeks after the AMC drama aired its series finale, a letter surfaced that Hopkins wrote to star Bryan Cranston, in which he gushes over the actor's performance. Hopkins says he just finished watching a marathon of all five seasons of the show (he refers to a sixth season, but the fifth season was actually split into two).
"A total of two weeks (addictive) viewing," he writes. "I have never watched anything like it. Brilliant! Your performance as Walter White was the best acting I have seen -- ever. I know there is so much smoke blowing and sickening bullshit in this business, and I've sort of lost belief in anything really. But this work of yours is spectacular -- absolutely stunning. What is extraordinary, is the sheer power of everyone in the entire production."
Hopkins also goes on to praise the rest of the cast as well, and asks Cranston to "pass on my admiration to everyone."
"Everyone gave master classes of performance," he writes.
He also praises the Vince Gilligan-created show's overall arc and storytelling.
"From what started as a black comedy, descended into a labyrinth of blood, destruction and hell," he writes. "It was like a great Jacobean, Shakespearian [sic] or Greek Tragedy."
The letter first surfaced over the weekend on Breaking Bad co-star Steven Michael Quezada's Facebook page, according to Gawker, but the post has since been deleted, as has a tweet he wrote about the letter. But The Hollywood Reporter has confirmed that Hopkins is indeed the author and that the letter is authentic.
The Breaking Bad series finale aired Sept. 29, drawing a record 10.3 million viewers.
While many in Hollywood tweeted their enthusiasm for the show and especially the series finale, Oliver Stone and Britney Spears recently expressed their displeasure with the events of the final episode.
Read Hopkins' full letter below.
Dear Mister Cranston.
I wanted to write you this email – so I am contacting you through Jeremy Barber – I take it we are both represented by UTA . Great agency.
I've just finished a marathon of watching "BREAKING BAD" – from episode one of the First Season – to the last eight episodes of the Sixth Season. (I downloaded the last season on AMAZON) A total of two weeks (addictive) viewing.
I have never watched anything like it. Brilliant!
Your performance as Walter White was the best acting I have seen – ever.
I know there is so much smoke blowing and sickening bullshit in this business, and I've sort of lost belief in anything really.
But this work of yours is spectacular – absolutely stunning. What is extraordinary, is the sheer power of everyone in the entire production. What was it? Five or six years in the making? How the producers (yourself being one of them), the writers, directors, cinematographers.... every department – casting etc. managed to keep the discipline and control from beginning to the end is (that over used word) awesome.
From what started as a black comedy, descended into a labyrinth of blood, destruction and hell. It was like a great Jacobean, Shakespearian or Greek Tragedy.
If you ever get a chance to – would you pass on my admiration to everyone – Anna Gunn, Dean Norris, Aaron Paul, Betsy Brandt, R.J. Mitte, Bob Odenkirk, Jonathan Banks, Steven Michael Quezada – everyone – everyone gave master classes of performance ... The list is endless.
Thank you. That kind of work/artistry is rare, and when, once in a while, it occurs, as in this epic work, it restores confidence.
You and all the cast are the best actors I've ever seen.
That may sound like a good lung full of smoke blowing. But it is not. It's almost midnight out here in Malibu, and I felt compelled to write this email.
Congratulations and my deepest respect. You are truly a great, great actor.
Best regards
Tony Hopkins.
I did most of my post-Breaking Bad reading here so I wasn't even aware of this until a friend asked me what I thought about it... Apparently Norm Macdonald thought the finale was much too satisfying for Walt too. His theory is that Walt died in that car when the cops surrounded him and the rest is Walt's fantasy, and he was tweeting a LOT about it: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/10/04/norm-macdonald-tells-you-how-breaking-bad-really-ended/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/10/04/norm-macdonald-tells-you-how-breaking-bad-really-ended/)
Would be kind of an interesting theory if Vince Gilligan didn't basically say it's not what happened.
I like this theory. I especially like this quote:
"Sean, you must never trust what an author says about his work. What he has to say is all in the work. If he had more, he would include it." - Norm MacDonald.
I've heard that theory, and I don't like it. Actually it was debunked (with logic) in the Slate's Spoiler Special podcast. I'll paraphrase:
If he died in the car, how would you explain the flash forwards? It's very unlikely that the show flashed forward to events that will never happen. That violates every rule of narrative and common sense. Not even Lynch would do that. It would also be dumb.
He's the most wanted man there is, but he eats at a diner and chats with a waitress and appears wherever he wants. - Norm
He is already dead by then. He died from cancer in the cabin, all alone. Moreover everything later on isn't Walt's fantasy. Jesse is imagining an escape from impossible situation - in the end it was speciality of Walt. Didn't you notice how similar wooden box made by Jesse and cardboard box with money carried by Walt are? Start from there and you will find more clues.
He/she died and rest is fantasy - one of he cheesiest scenarios I can think of. I don't see how such theory could be improvement of any kind.
I think The New Yorker ran with that theory a little in their review as well.
astonishing highlights cinematography of breaking bad
all edited by dave bunting
Season 1
http://vimeo.com/72319639
Season 2
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UKgJNiZ2C-4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Season 3
http://vimeo.com/61847525
Season 4
http://vimeo.com/52028066
Season 5.1
http://vimeo.com/48781235
Season 5.2
http://vimeo.com/75787820
here are two interesting parallels from earlier seasons that i discovered during my recent series rewatch, i don't think these have been mentioned before, because they're almost unnoticable:
- Jesse getting the house from his parents, Walt getting the carwash from Bogdan.
- Skyler putting the folded towel down under her feet on Ted's heated bathroom tile.
in season 3 there's the completely civil domestic dispute with the cops unable to do anything, Walt stands his ground. I like to think of what was running through their thick skulls when they found out what was actually going down. He fooled everyone.
Then he invites Louis over for dinner just as a ploy to squash the beef while there's guests around.
Quote from: Reelist on September 12, 2013, 12:28:17 AMdo we ever once meet Louis?
LOUISSSSS!!(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20110927053956%2Fbreakingbad%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fae%2F2x04_-_Louis.jpg&hash=83a0e4f243fa7746767d8d9329f655bd2a993811)
I imagined him to be mexican. Maybe he's like Louis CK style. Anyways, what scene is this still from?
the one where i answered your question like months ago.
On other hand I have been interested in alternative opening to Breaking Bad for some time.
Why Walter started with crack meth and not acid? Mid-20 white well educated people are primary consumers of LSD. Distribution and production of psychedelics is less organized compared to other drugs. Laboratory equipment for production of LSD is relatively small: he could fit it into the trunk of Pontiac. Hell there is high chance that Walt took LSD himself during his time at Caltech. Skyler could sell drugs for him through some black market website like Silk Road or something similar - she had experience with auctioning goods on web. Then just ship it through mail - LSD can take numerous forms and it is very hard to detect.
Yet that would be very different show, probably more similar to Weeds that Breaking Bad with exploration of psychedelic sub-culture. Still there would be plenty of space of drama - you can read about real life cases of LSD kingpins e.g. Leonard Pickard. I'm not the only one with such ideas, there are similar descriptions flying around. Bottom line is more sensible scenarios not necessary make better story.
that was very interesting but i just have to say that meth is not crack, and i know this for a fact.
https://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/ (https://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/)
This site has just uploaded 8 scripts from the third season of Breaking Bad. It already had four scripts including the pilot and three more from season three. So it has the entire third season except for episode 2 and 4.
Just posted this on my blog: List of Every Breaking Bad Actor Who Was Ever in The X-Files. (http://www.davidtharwood.com/2013/12/list-of-every-breaking-bad-actor-who-was-ever-in-the-x-files/)
If you feel so inclined, I would really appreciate a share on your social media platform of choice. Cheers.
That completely blew my mind. Bravo. :yabbse-thumbup:
Quote from: Brando on December 09, 2013, 02:23:42 PM
https://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/ (https://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/)
This site has just uploaded 8 scripts from the third season of Breaking Bad. It already had four scripts including the pilot and three more from season three. So it has the entire third season except for episode 2 and 4.
WAAAAAAH! The rear wheels spin air.... out stumbles underpants man... Right now, we'd step the fuck out of his way.
Vince must have been really excited for this.
The scripts are a fun read. Usually this type of explicit direction and explanation of character motivations is frowned upon but I think a lot of it was motivated by Vince not being on set for the majority of Breaking Bad's production. Or maybe it's just his style.
This can't be how their scripts are actually written, can it?
Vulture TV Awards: Deadwood Creator David Milch on Why Walter White Is the Year's Best Villain
via Vulture (http://www.vulture.com/2014/06/vulture-tv-awards-david-milch-best-villain-walter-white.html)
All this week, we're presenting the Vulture TV Awards, honoring the best in television from the past year. We move on now to Best Villain. It says a lot about the television cycle that things that aired less than a year ago feel like ancient history — but a list of TV events that are eligible not only for the purposes of our Vulture TV Awards, but also the upcoming Emmy Awards, would include the Dexter finale, Sharknado, and the Miley Cyrus performance at the MTV Video Music Awards. The final run of Breaking Bad also qualifies, and as Deadwood creator David Milch discusses here, Walter White is the year's best TV villain.
You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in all of television's kingdoms more heinous than Joffrey Baratheon. Or more devilish than Frank Underwood. Or more politely chilling than the eponymous Hannibal. For these characters, villainy is as much a vocation as avocation: Joffrey is a teenage tyrant; Frank is a scheming politician; and Dr. Lecter a sinister shrink. When villainy is a job requirement, why not delight in it?
But there is nothing inherently villainous about your mild-mannered chemistry teacher — the one who took a medical leave when he developed lung cancer. He's so nice, after all, and his family is so sweet. He's just like you and me, and we're not so bad. Are we? Walter White's transformation into the monster Heisenberg is compelling because he does bad things for good reasons. We might even do the same, if pushed far enough. We see a little of ourselves in him, and that's precisely why we should fear him most.
In the final season of Breaking Bad, Walter has completed that transformation and quit the business of blue meth. He's already shot, stabbed, poisoned, and bombed anyone who threatened his burgeoning empire. He's made more money than his family could ever need.
But with Hank and Jesse finally at odds with him, he still has things left to do. Though he doesn't wear the porkpie hat, he uses the different facets of his persona to manipulate those closest to him. He's Mr. White, the genteel teacher, when he has to convince Jesse to change his identity for everyone's protection. He's the helpless cancer victim and loving patriarch when Hank finally realizes the truth about his brother-in-law. His time is running out, Walter promises, and a pointless prosecution for a dying man will only harm his family. When those approaches fail, Walt is the brutal drug lord who plots to kill Jesse, implicates Hank in his own crimes, and leaves his wife bloodied and sobbing in front of their home after kidnapping their infant daughter. He turns his family against itself. In doing so, he reshapes the world around him so that everyone breaks bad.
Marie, never the bastion of sanity, Googles untraceable poisons when Walt doesn't follow her recommendation of suicide. Skyler eschews her own husband's moral standards and tries to convince Walt to finally murder Jesse. Even Walter's other protégé, Todd, is merely an extension of him. He adopted the brutality of his Uncle Jack and the Opie attitude of "Mr. White." When Todd and the Aryans leave Hank in a desert grave, torture Jesse, and murder Andrea, who is only guilty of unwittingly playing the pawn, it's not in spite of Walter, but because of him.
And then, in the wake of fleeing Albuquerque, Walter refuses the opportunity to save Skyler by surrendering to the police, claiming that he wants to ensure his family receives the remainder of his money. In reality, he can't accept that his empire has perished.
When Walter finally admits that he did it all — the meth, the money, the murders — because he liked it, because it made him feel alive, that vanity motivated him more than charity, it reflects how our own ostensible altruism is often just the lie we tell ourselves to excuse our dirtiest deeds.
He does attempt redemption. He comes out of hiding to ensure Skyler isn't punished for his crimes. He kills the Aryans and rescues Jesse. He succeeds at providing Walt Jr. with roughly $9 million. But he achieves these small acts of contrition through violence, or at least the promise of it. He's already doomed, and he shows how far each of us can fall.
Was Walter White the best villain on television this year? You're goddamn right.
Great interview with Moira Wally-Beckett: http://www.kessleru.com/2014/01/an-interview-with-breaking-bad-writer-moira-walley-beckett/
holy shit. have any of you guys watched 'metastasis' yet?
it is crazy on so many levels.
the concept itself is just ridiculous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoH2gu7snwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZKqMVPlDg8
Didn't expect for this to come so soon!
El Camino was... underwhelming. It's a lot like The X-Files: I Want To Believe. Not really a movie, just an extra long episode of the show. Not terrible, but not especially good. Kinda necessary to watch while also feeling inessential. A missed opportunity.
There are some great moments and excellent scenes. But it just doesn't pack the punch that it thinks it does.
You can tell that everyone who worked on this is used to doing their job for television and doesn't quite know how to construct a "film" out of this material. This is especially felt in the editing. Whereas an episode of Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul is vital and packed with incident, El Camino feels stretched and lacks momentum.
I think Vince was going for subtlety, but this is just kind of plain. It's shot plainly and lacks the dynamic visuals of the show. It's written plainly. The score is also noticeably bad. So it ends up feeling like a bit of a downgrade.
I like this observation from NME:
"The film ends as the show did – Jesse braves his future alone. It's just puzzling to watch two more hours and reach, essentially, the exact same conclusion."
Can't disagree with any of that, to be fair.
I enjoyed it. I wasn't really sure what to expect - and I think calling it a film rather than some other more appropriate term is going to be why many were underwhelmed - but what we got was bloody typical of BB/BCS storytelling. Of course it's the practical, logical, step-by-step of what Jessie did next and how he got out of town. In this universe, no one simply drives off into the sunset. Plus, Jessie got very short shrift in the final season of BB, so it feels like he was deserved something of a more substantial sendoff.
Did it necessitate a whole two-hour production (which has taken VG away from the BCS writer's room for roughly two seasons)? No.
Am I happy it was done regardless and am I hopeful they might do more like this simply because I love this style of storytelling and am grateful to spend more time in this universe. Absolutely.
Doing what AMC has planned for Walking Dead with BB (https://collider.com/the-walking-dead-rick-movies-andrew-lincoln) was aways going to be trickier. Assuming they intend(ed) to expand BB beyond this film. If not, then at least there's a new season of BCS on the horizon. And whatever Vince does next.
Really hoping they'll do an Insider Podcast ep for this.
Still no pod, but there is a 13-min making of on nf now
https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Cotc3JkVc/