teen movie mishaps

Ernie · June 28, 2003, 10:41:42 PM

NOTE: please do not move this to the brainstorming/feedback section, there is no reason to do that. this is a question for all people that see movies...not just fellow filmmakers...I want to get the most input that I can because it is important that I do...I know that more people come to this board than brainstorming and feedback and I think this is the best place to put it...thank you.

Ok, I need a little bit of help. I'm working on this idea I have (kinda) that I think I've briefly mentioned here once or twice...ummm, it's not really going to go into play until the distant future but I think about it a lot and write down tons of smaller and sometimes pretty big ideas for it. Anyway, I want to be a filmmaker and I want my first film to be a movie about teens. I think a lot of teen movies potray teens badly see and I want to make one that potrays them in...and I know this sounds pretty arrogant and maybe even pretensious (sp?)...but I wanna make a more honest teen movie...to keep a long story short. So, I won't bore you with the plot ideas I have thought of, I'll get to the point...

I want to know what pisses you off, if anything, about the current state of teen movies...the cliches, tired plots or characters, tone, mood...you know, all the bad stuff...whatever it may be. I want to know all this because well, I think it's important that input to the filmmaker (or wannabe as in this case) comes from the audience above anybody else.

So, just to get the ball rolling...I'll just say one thing. Ok, I don't like the lack of innonence in a lot of teen and adolescent characters that I have seen in recent films. I think this leads people to believe that ALL teens are bad. Now, there are teens that are really really horrible, cruel people that represent the fucking dirt in the sink of humanity but you gotta remember that there are some really cool, really smart, really human teens and kids too. I think that there should be more innocence in young characters...not all teens swear and fucking kill people and fuck pies, ok...hate to spoil all the fun but it's annoying to me.

Alright, so there it is. There is my request to you all. I would really appreciate this. This thing is coming along really well. I thought of this really cool really funny scene today but I'm kinda uneasy about it...it's all about throwing up, this girl throws up in front of this guy and she's really embarassed and they talk about throwing up...yea, I'm pretty uneasy about it cause I'm afraid people might think it's some sort of fucking homage to Stand By Me, which I wouldn't dream of putting in any film of mine. But anyway, that's not important...just went on a whole tangent there...give me what I want from you and I'll be very appreciative and grateful...thanks...thank you and thank you again.

Ghostboy · June 28, 2003, 10:55:13 PM

It's hard to put a finger on. But at the same time it isn't. What I hate (not in every movie, but in potentially great movies) is when the characters stop being real and start doing things just because that's what the script says. When you can see the cogs moving behind the story, a movie will lose something. Some movies, like American Pie, are all about that, and it's fine. But say, if in All The Real Girls, Paul had gotten really pissed off and gone to kill the Zooey after she sleeps with his friend (or tried to kill the friend for that matter), it would have been clearly stupid. Now, that's a really extreme example, but that's what I'm talking about. A great example is in Raising Victor Vargas...I was so afraid the kids would do something stupid, like turn to crime, because that would have just been the filmmakers trying to adhere to the normal concept of a movie. But that didn't happen, and the character breathed and continued on through the movie as real people. And I love it for that.

Again, and this isn't a teen movie, but Buffalo 66 is a good example. If the movie had ended after he shot himself, it would have been pointless and stupid. That character wouldn't have done that. But the movie keeps going and lets the character exist as a real person, not as a character in a movie.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but I think it does. As for your puking example, I think that could be a really great scene. Just play it real. Don't go for laughs, or for an easy gag. Have it play the way someone might really respond and don't worry if it feels too 'boring' when you're writing it. If it was American Pie, you'd hear the girl puke and then it would cut to the guy running out of the car, making a grossed-out face and going 'ehhhhwwww.' Cue audience laughter. But in real life, the guy would be grossed out, sure, but if he's a nice guy he'd catch himself and comfort her, or if he's an ass he'd get pissed off. Etc. Etc. Etc.

NEON MERCURY · June 28, 2003, 10:57:12 PM

smart idea to post here......(more people docome here)

i amno way nearexpert on this...but teen films that deal w/sex are played out american pie.......teen romance films are cheesy and UNBELIVE-able such as whatever it takes.. i don't know man...... i wish i could have been more help (the two sentence fragments that i wrote above offer much of nothing) but i will say this:
DO NOT MAKE IT CLICHED/FAKE/CHEESY like most teen films are (saving silverman, loser, van wilder etc............) i would suggest keep it real I.E. Dazed and Confused or the high school aspects of American Beauty both of these films nailed it THE CHARACTERS ARE REAL to ME(future paying audience)..

hope that is some help and hopeeverything works out in the end
now, here comes the more articulate answers by others for you

See-below----

ShanghaiOrange · June 28, 2003, 11:02:35 PM

The various classes (nerds, jocks, goths, etc). The vast majority of teens can't be classified like that.

The best representation of teens in recent film was probably "Election".

ono · June 28, 2003, 11:12:32 PM

Excellent questions. Topic was a little misleading, but the thread is definitely in the right spirit. To give you an idea, I think all teenage wanna-be filmmakers want to make a good teen movie. It's a little "fuck-you"/homage to the teen years, and a way to cope with all the shit. So we all can relate, and we all have ideas of how to represent the time well. The best thing I can say in general is to be brutally honest, and brutally true to what has happened or what could happen in whatever situations you set up. Things when you're a teen seems like they'll matter forever but in the grand scheme of things, they're really quite transitory. Now on to the questions...

Quote from: ebeamanI want to know what pisses you off, if anything, about the current state of teen movies...the cliches, tired plots or characters, tone, mood...you know, all the bad stuff...whatever it may be. I want to know all this because well, I think it's important that input to the filmmaker (or wannabe as in this case) comes from the audience above anybody else.

Pop music. It sucks, it tells you what you should be thinking, it thinks it speaks for the viewers when it doesn't, and there are emotions that can be conveyed much more effectively than the latest top 10 song ever could. Choose your soundtrack wisely. If you want to really nail it, what I'd do (and what I actually am gonna try to do is) get an overzealous music student to score your film. Instrumentals always do a much better job if they're done right. See: Philip Glass in The Hours, especially. That movie may not have been the greatest, but damn if that soundtrack wasn't one of the best I've ever heard. It was like fucking Beethoven. And Beethoven was great in the sack.
Sex. The jokes are there all the time. I lived it, and I'm sure you're living it now. "Masturbation" is a joke, "who got wasted and fucked who" is a joke, but it all seems to be overplayed in the movies, so obviously you should try to steer clear and give it a human quality. Students trying to come to terms with sexuality can be one of the most compelling things, and if done properly, healthy sexuality will cause the MPAA to cringe and give the film an NC-17 or cause the filmmaker to release it Unrated. And for this you should be proud. Brutally paraphrased by me, Pauline Kael said something along the lines of "the best movies are R-rated; they are more real." See: Lost & Delirious starring Piper Perabo for a prime example of a movie where sexuality is tackled eloquently.[/list:u]
Quote from: ebeamanSo, just to get the ball rolling...I'll just say one thing. Ok, I don't like the lack of innonence in a lot of teen and adolescent characters that I have seen in recent films. I think this leads people to believe that ALL teens are bad. Now, there are teens that are really really horrible, cruel people that represent the fucking dirt in the sink of humanity but you gotta remember that there are some really cool, really smart, really human teens and kids too. I think that there should be more innocence in young characters...not all teens swear and fucking kill people and fuck pies, ok...hate to spoil all the fun but it's annoying to me.
Just think in shades of gray when you're writing; not everything is white or black, and the most annoying stories and characters are ones that don't have any depth, and are one-note. All you really have to do is what Steven King does: just create your characters first. Think profiles that are multilayered and complex. Outline your story, but let the characters personalities, beliefs, and desires drive it, and not some preconceived notion of where you want to end up.
Quote from: ebeamanAlright, so there it is. There is my request to you all. I would really appreciate this. This thing is coming along really well. I thought of this really cool really funny scene today but I'm kinda uneasy about it...it's all about throwing up, this girl throws up in front of this guy and she's really embarassed and they talk about throwing up...yea, I'm pretty uneasy about it cause I'm afraid people might think it's some sort of fucking homage to Stand By Me, which I wouldn't dream of putting in any film of mine. But anyway, that's not important...just went on a whole tangent there...give me what I want from you and I'll be very appreciative and grateful...thanks...thank you and thank you again.
I think that's a fine idea, actually. Anything can be fine. It all depends on how it's handled. Just remember to maintain the characters' humanity, and don't turn them into caricatures.

BonBon85 · June 28, 2003, 11:17:10 PM

I hate that teen movies usually include a "typical high school party". From my experience nobody dances at a teen house party and people never run frantically if the cops show up. And the parties never consist of more than 25 people.

I also can't stand that half of the teen movies out there are about the popular guy/girl seeing the sincere and wonderful inner qualities of a shy girl/guy. Love in general doesn't really work in a teen movie. I'm sure there are exceptions, but people just don't seem to fall in real, passionate love in high school anymore yet movies try to fake it.

And whatever you do make sure you have people of actual high school age. All the freshmen I've ever known were under 5'5" but you never see anybody who still looks like a kid in teen movies.

or just watch this:

Orteous · June 29, 2003, 03:07:03 AM

Quote from: BonBon85

chainsmoking insomniac · June 29, 2003, 01:45:32 PM

This is a terrific thread. Kudos, ebeaman

All of you have made really excellent points. My biggest problem with teen movies is that I don't find the characters fascinating at all. All these gorgeous people running around, crazy ass house parties and teens falling in love-I knew none of this in high school. Big turn off.
I wanna see a movie with kids who portray humanity, as opposed to some hack writer's vision of what an audience wants to see. Welcome to the Doll House comes to mind as being a fucking terrific coming-of-age film. Hurricane Streets, Dazed and Confused...there are a few others, just can't summon them to mind right now.
I haven't seen this David Gordon Green fellow's work yet, but fuck if I'm not excited as hell to see All the Good Girls.....

Duck Sauce · June 29, 2003, 02:20:37 PM

I dont like how teen movies are full of 27 year olds and nobody looks anything like anybody did in high school.

I dont like how the partys always have a band, when really they usually consist of 8 people getting somebody to buy them beer then standing outside a house smoking. No pool partys either.

Teenagers actually goto school, they arent always wandering the halls.

The highschool QB isnt the best looking and most popular guy in the school, hes not a hero. Most of the time it is some kid who doesnt do anything but play football.

SoNowThen · June 29, 2003, 02:40:35 PM

Another great thread, Ebs.

Firstly, don't throw away cliches. Embrace them and peel their layers off to find the inherent truth in them. There ARE jocks, and goths, and computer nerds, etc. But there must be a way to place them all on the same level in some kinda objective way. It ain't gonna be easy. I guess you just have to love each of your characters in a PTA sort of way, rather than letting them become some sorta caricature of how lazy movies in the past have been.

Whataver happens, please solve the movie in a realistic / cool way, like a subtle mature ending, like Five Easy Pieces. Damn, what a great fucking ending, with Jack in that truck stop washroom. There's nothing that I hate more than teen movies that must rely on Billy The Asshole Wising Up And Marrying His Pregnant Girlfriend, or Johnny Commits Suicide, or Dexter The Nerd Finally Gets Amie The Airhead Cheerleader And Finds Out She's A Nice Girl That Just Needed Love, or my personal most hated Everyone Gets Laid.

That being said, there is a lot of good stuff to be learned in movies like Can't Buy Me Love and Can't Hardly Wait. Cute films that cop out more or less, but there's moments.

Some of these have been mentioned, but the really great "teen" type films are: Election, Donnie Darko, Ghost World, The Virgin Suicides (I know, I said no suicide, but this was done so fucking well... I see the suicides being more Poetic/Symbolic than literal).

Possibly the hardest type of films to write. I guess, just don't try to write yourself into one major character, because you'll find you start to see the story only from his point of view, and it hurts everything else.

Yay.

Ernie · June 29, 2003, 03:03:50 PM

Wow, I thank all of you for replying, this is great. I've found that I've really been overthinking this...how to make a good teen movie. I realize now that eliminating SEX can almost singlehandedly lead to a better teen movie. Also, as was also mentioned a lot here...more accuracy in ages...and then the look of teens (not gorgeous)...and then the accuracy of parties (I've never been to a party so I couldn't really say for sure if they were accurately portrayed, thanks most of all for this info).

Thanks a lot, seriously. This is all good. One thing I've decided to do is, ok...I think I'm going to maybe post a little plot summary if that's ok. I know this isn't the most appropriate place to post it but bear with me, I think this is a good idea. You guys can now specifically tell me what's wrong, if anything with this story. I hope you don't think any of this is too far fetched or anything. Ok, here is a small plot summary...

Ok, the thing takes place at the end of the school year, early summer in a sort of rural/suburban town...I know, it's kind of a cliche setting for a teen movie but keep reading. Sam is the main character...he is just finishing up his sophormore year (he's 16). Ok, he's not unpopular! But he is very shy and quiet and Barry Egan-ish...he has one main friend...one best friend...name is Jessie. Jessie is a little bit older (maybe eighteen)...so he's a senior. Jessie is the opposite of Sam pretty much, he's popular and outgoing and charismatic and hangs out with mostly girls, some guys...all of different ethnic backgrounds...he loves life, he's happy. Jessie and a lot of his friends love Sam! They love him to death, he's their little baby (like Dirk). See, they were friends with his older sister, who was a senior the year before and graduated...Jessie and her were childhood friends so therefore, he was always around Sam and THEY became friends as well! So, they love him, they REALLY do, their love is real...remember that when I tell you this next thing. Ok, the other reason they REALLY love Sam is...he has a car. See, Jessie got into some trouble with the law a couple years back (just something small) and cannot get his license...he just can't. Even if he could, he never was a good driver, he got in some accidents. So, he (and of course his friends who stick to him like glue) looks to Sam to drive him places...he doesn't EXPECT it, he's not a conniving little prick...he's appreciative of all that Sam does for him and Sam doesn't really mind it cause he is horrible at making friends and he's so shy that he enjoys the company...even if it is a little loud and crazy sometimes and the girls flirt with him and he DOES NOT like that because he's very shy and timid and frankly, not into getting a girlfriend...also, the guys sometimes will nag him about his sister and ask him when she will be coming home and whatnot because they all love her. So, ALL of the attention can get a little nagging, it's starting to get worst. Sam is a small guy (figuratively), he's just a quiet small guy. This attention is starting to upset him.

There are other things that are starting to irk Sam in addition to the girls that flirt with him and the guys that nag him about his sister...there are a few bullies that make fun of him and talk with much more vulgarity about his sister. See, he loves his sister. He misses her. He doesn't get along well with his mother so he always used to hang out with her. Jessie helps him to fend off the bullies from time to time and shuts the guys up that talk about his sister. He doesn't tell the girls to lay off because he can't get his mind around Sam's disliking their flirting. Especially Alice's attention, she is one of the girls that REALLY likes Sam. She's not just kidding around, she's serious but Sam doesn't really know it. And if he did know it, he wouldn't care because he doesn't want a girlfriend, remember? So anyway, all of this is building up and something is going to happen...but what? I'll tell you...

Ok, Jessie is planning a trip, a pretty big trip somewhere. He has a party that Sam drives him to and announces this. It puts pressure on Sam because, of course, he will be the ride. He calls Sam over for this party and Sam declines...he tells him the car isn't working, he lies to his friend...he just doesn't want to do it this time, not a big TRIP...a ride to the grocery store is one thing, a big fucking trip is quite another. So, Jessie isn't pissed but he's a little concerned...he kinda knows (kinda) that Sam is lying...he send three of his girls (including Alice) over to his house in order to persuade him to go to the pre-trip party...Alice does not really want to do this as this is drifting into conniving methods, almost betrayal on Jessie's part...but she goes anyway. They go over to Sam's and long story short, they get him out of the house (they don't like offer him sex or anything, they're just nice to him and his house does suck, of course he'd rather go with them)...he pretends that he just realized the car is fine and he drives off with them...the girls have been told by Jessie to tell Sam to get gas for the trip...so Sam goes to the gas station, he fills it up...the two girls OTHER than Alice go inside and get snacks and whatnot, they get that stuff and they're in there for a long time...Alice and Sam stay in the car...ok, long story short...they end up running away...they drive off and ditch the two girls, Jessie, and the town.

Alright, that's pretty much all I have now. I have no idea what's going to happen on the trip. All I know is I want Alice to get sick. I can tell you one thing, they're not going to find a dead body or anything. But yea, just tell me what you think of it. I know it's rambling and all that but just try to understand the best you can...it's actually pretty simple. I know I'm starting to ask a lot but you guys just helped so much in my first questions that I couldn't resist. Ask any questions that you have! I know this is not very clear. It's very clear in my mind but I don't think I illustrated it that well.

Banky · June 29, 2003, 03:18:13 PM

sounds pretty interesting. I have also wanted to write a script that is more realistic to teens. Thats actually what im doing now. Mine is a parrellel form of "Scream". Yours sound good, make sure to stear clear of the sick lover cliche's.

BonBon85 · June 29, 2003, 03:54:33 PM

Apologies, Orteous, didn't know that was your avatar. Problem corrected.

And good luck Ebeaman!

SoNowThen · June 29, 2003, 08:58:44 PM

But Ebs, remember, there's nothing wrong with making a few of the teen chicks gorgeous. There were many, according to my memory...

SHAFTR · June 29, 2003, 09:03:32 PM

A really good low budget film that I think really did portray teens well and what it is like being a teenager is

A Better Place

check it out...it is very good.